<div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font color="#0000ff">below...</font></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 5, 2024 at 1:49 AM Lars Brinkhoff <<a href="mailto:lars@nocrew.org">lars@nocrew.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Thank you. Some additional clues: the jargon file started at SAIL, and<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </span>shortly after was adopted by MIT and then jointly maintained. So it's<br>
not clear which one is "the PDP-6" here. As far as I know, Bill Weiher,<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> </span>the creator of STOPGAP and/or SOS?, is associated with SAIL, not MIT.<br></blockquote><div><font color="#0000ff"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">You are welcome. I'm sorry to confuse the origin and the historical correction. I was using the docs I had, and as you pointed out, the Jargon says PDP-6 but does not specify which site. My notes from the later PDP-10 pointed at DEC+MIT. It does sound like STOPGAP/SOS came to the DEC world from Stanford. </span></font><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,255)"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">So thank you.</span></span></div><div><font color="#0000ff"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#0000ff"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">That said, bring it back to the original question from Will. My original email was about the history of using reg-ex WRT to UNIX. It was less about editors and who did what as much as trying to point out that the idea of a text editor existed long before Ken's version of QED,</span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> much less, ed(1). </span></font><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,255)">Most importantly, Ken's QED came after the original QED, which came after other text editors. Adding <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">reg-ex </span>to an editor was natural for someone schooled in the ideas</span><font color="#0000ff"><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> behind </span>automaton<span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> and patter</span></font><span style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(0,0,255)">n matching. But <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">tmany/most of the text </span>editors <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">in used had been </span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">created </span>before that work had begun to be studied and formalized, so,<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> these</span> other editors h<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">ad</span> not include<span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">d</span> <span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">using reg-ex for the pattern match/search scheme</span>. </span></div><div><font color="#0000ff"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#0000ff"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Ken's great leap was modeling and combining the QED user interface with this new idea in text pattern match/searching, demonstrating that it was a good fit. That would lead to other tools that decided to include the same pattern-matching ideas (grep, sed, awk, Perl, <i>et al.</i>).</span></font></div><div><font color="#0000ff"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></font></div><div><font color="#0000ff"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Will had asked -- how did people learn to use reg-ex? The observation I had made and was bringing forward to the list is that if new user came from a background based on being taught about how to create a pattern match er, and sid person had learned</span><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"> a little about the ideas behind automatons, learn to use reg-ex was not a big deal. It was only 'astonishing,' and users might need a separate explanation if they started from some other place - particularly if they did not have that same background in core CS theory/they had previously learned a different way with a different set of tools, such as the text editor.</span></font></div><div><font color="#0000ff"><span class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br></span></font></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font color="#0000ff">As I understand it, this is how Will came to learn UNIX, so folks like Will needed and appreciated documentation that came from other places. I think that he was asking which documents and what people in the background similar to him had chosen to use to learn how to use the UNIX toolkit.</font></div><br></div><div><font color="#0000ff"><br></font></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font color="#0000ff">Clem</font></div><br></div></div></div>