<div dir="ltr"><div>Again, thanks for the help. It is appreciated.</div><div><br></div><div>Ken<br></div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 9:44 AM Clem Cole <<a href="mailto:clemc@ccc.com">clemc@ccc.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Matt - again, thank you. I just did a diff between the man pages from the System III version on TUHS and the version I have from Kirk's CD set [which was what we had a UCB]. The System III version looks different from the UCB man page (<i>e.g</i>., no plot() functions and a few other things). So, I did a little checking last night and wrote a couple of emails to some folks. The evidence I have found does seem to me that <span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">Dick Haight</span><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> wrote the original bs(1) command. Note that Dolotta, Haight, Piskorik, and Mashey were the original PWB 1.0 core team, as it were. But ... looking at my printed PWB 1.0 manual, there does not seem to be a bs(1) man page. However, we know that while PWB was never released officially outside of the Bell System - although parts of PWB 'leaked' to MIT, CMU, and UCB [probably via the OYOC's -- Noel's MIT system is clearly influenced by PWB 1.0 and I know the CMU system we had was also thanks to folks like tjk and Phil Karn]. The point is that many/most of the commands from PWB [with SCCS being the most important], if not the full kernel itself, arrived in those places.</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">So a semi-educated >>WAG<< ... with the evidence being that</span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><ol><li><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">Haight's bs(1) was different from Ken's bas(1) which was in V7,</span></li><li><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">bs(1) is on Kirk's CD (disk4), </span></li><li><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">we know parts of PWB leaked from Bell, </span></li><li><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">I personally remember having it at UCB;</span></li></ol><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">Kirk's version at UCB predated the System III/V one you have, and it is likely an either Haight version from PWB 1.0 somehow. We </span>know a Dale<span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> </span>and their team<span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"> in Columbus not only wrote their own enhancements, but they also took the source from all over: Research, PWB, and some of the universities. The CB/UNIX folks likely updated bs(1), and later, when some of the CB UNIX enhancement made it back to Summit and in PWB 2, 3, and the like - that's where the updated version appeared.</span><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(32,33,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px">Clem</span></div></div><div hspace="streak-pt-mark" style="max-height:1px"><img alt="" style="width: 0px; max-height: 0px; overflow: hidden;" src="https://mailfoogae.appspot.com/t?sender=aY2xlbWNAY2NjLmNvbQ%3D%3D&type=zerocontent&guid=d004dc76-ec06-47e9-9e86-636f0c744b0d"><font size="1" color="#ffffff">ᐧ</font></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, May 20, 2023 at 12:29 AM segaloco via TUHS <<a href="mailto:tuhs@tuhs.org" target="_blank">tuhs@tuhs.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Here are raw[1] and nroff-d[2] restorations of the CB-UNIX 2.1 stamped page:</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">[1] - <span><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://pastebin.com/EAjMyvSn" target="_blank">https://pastebin.com/EAjMyvSn</a></span><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">[2] - <span><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://pastebin.com/Dgh1g5q8" target="_blank">https://pastebin.com/Dgh1g5q8</a></span></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">According to a diff with the 3.0 manpage in the tree[3], these are some changes of note from CB 2.1 to PWB 3.0:</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">- Added ibase, obase</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">- Added elif and using a single fi to end an if elif else chain</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">- Added return for returning from function calls</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">- Added support for tables (arrays based on key-value pairs)<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">- The plot(11) routine swaps the corners about the y axis</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">- A bug is removed indicating a limit of 250 lines, 250 variables, and artificial truncation of names to six characters.</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Unfortunately the CB 2.1 page on the archive[4] doesn't indicate anything of particular note that wasn't pretty much the same in PWB 3.0.</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">[3] - <span><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://www.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=SysIII/usr/src/man/man1/bs.1" target="_blank">https://www.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=SysIII/usr/src/man/man1/bs.1</a></span><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">[4] - <span><a rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" href="https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/CB_Unix/cbunix_man1_01.pdf" target="_blank">https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/CB_Unix/cbunix_man1_01.pdf</a></span> (Page 32-39)<br></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">- Matt G.<br></div><div>
------- Original Message -------<br>
On Friday, May 19th, 2023 at 5:31 PM, Clem Cole <<a href="mailto:clemc@ccc.com" target="_blank">clemc@ccc.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>
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<div dir="auto">Matt. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Does the CB man page match the PWB 3 version? I may be mixing something up in my memory so I ask because I seem to remember there were some differences between some scripts that came from different places ( We did a lot with graphics in the cad group and when we had tools that came from other places it was often graphics that bit us which is why I think that sticks in my mind). I’ll have to try looking at the version we had at UCB in a bit. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">As for doc the only thing I remember was a man page for the tool. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Clem</div><div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div class="gmail_attr" dir="ltr">On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 4:19 PM segaloco via TUHS <<a href="mailto:tuhs@tuhs.org" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" target="_blank">tuhs@tuhs.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote"><div dir="auto">The earliest documentation I can spot is the bs(1) man page dated November, 1979 in the CB-UNIX 2.3 Manual (although the page itself is tagged CB-UNIX 2.1.)</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">This appears to be the same lineage as what we see in the commercial PWB releases, however, the earliest backstop I have on that is June, 1980 with 3.0. PWB 1.0 contains no such page, and unfortunately the situation right around 1979 is still a bit fuzzy re: PWB 2.0 and UNIX/TS. That said, the preface to the CB-UNIX 2.3 manual (which is also a 2.1 page from 1979) pays no credit to the UNIX/TS 1.1 nor PWB 2.0 manuals the way the PWB 3.0 preface does, so perhaps bs(1) started in CB?</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Looking forward, this utility persists up til SVR2, but is gone as of the SVR3 globe-with-UNIX-lines manual series. Curiously, it was also omitted from the 3B20 PWB 4.1 manual, but the 5.0 and subsequent System V 1 and 2 manuals don't have a hardware-exclusivity masthead mark, so this was likely made portable/ported to 3B20 sometime around '81. In any case, none of the man pages in any of these manuals indicate any memoranda or other papers in the SEE ALSO. Doesn't mean one doesn't exist, but points to the likelihood that the manpage is really all you get documentation-wise. Even the BTL versions don't mention any papers.</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">In any case, that's what I could turn up, there is a bs(1) manpage in the following versions:</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">- 1979 - CB-UNIX 2.1</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">- 1980 - PWB 3.0/System III</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">- 1981 - PWB 4.x (Non 3B20)</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">- 1981 - CB-UNIX 2.3 (unmodified from 2.1)</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">- 1982 - PWB 5.0</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">- 1983 - System V</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">- 1984 - System V Release 2</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">Hope that helps. All of these save the 4.x version should be in various places around. I don't remember seeing anything outrageously different between 3.0 and 5.0, so it very well may be that the 4.x manpage could be easily synthesized with a diff, but I don't have a physical page to prove anything.</div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></div><div style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif;font-size:14px;color:rgb(0,0,0)">- Matt G.</div><div>
------- Original Message -------</div><div><br>
On Friday, May 19th, 2023 at 8:06 AM, KenUnix <<a href="mailto:ken.unix.guy@gmail.com" rel="noreferrer nofollow noopener" target="_blank">ken.unix.guy@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr"><div>Hi.</div><div><br></div><div>Was any documentation ever done for the basic interpreter</div><div>that was on System-V?</div><div><br></div><div>Things like allowed keywords or special keywords.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div>Ken</div><div><br></div><div><br><span>-- </span><br><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div></div><div>WWL 📚 Okey Dokey OK Boss<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div>
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</div></blockquote></div></div><span>-- </span><br><div dir="ltr">Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual</div>
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</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><br><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div>End of line</div><div>JOB TERMINATED Okey Dokey OK Boss<br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div></div>