<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">Hi A.P.,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">I agree powershell supports automation. However, it so complex and non-portable</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">that even learning about it and how to use it takes considerably longer than</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">learning about Unix automation. It puts a significant burden on developers to</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">document their DLL's and make the interfaces permanent. Complexity produces more</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">expensive and less reliable software.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">BTW, what about the non-major apps? From your view, they are simply excluded</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">from automation.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">In PS, type "help cmdlet" to see</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">the complexity of each and every command. PS does allow automation, but</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">it is very expensive because most people will be daunted when trying to learn how</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">to solve problems with it, people who know how to write stuff in PS are more expensive</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">employees, and development time for asking a simple question like</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"> "Show me the last 5 files read in a directory tree"</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">can require days or more of research and experimentation.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">A help page on almost any cmdlet produces a full page-width</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">pages of options, many of which lead to further questions about</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">usage.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">Yes, PS automates Windows -- but at what cost?</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">Ed</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">PS: I should write my book of "Why Windows is not my favorite</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">operating system" (paraphrasing a famous BTL TM).</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">PS2: Speaking of complexity and documentation, here is the start</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"> of the printout on an up-to-date MacOS of the command</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"> </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"> man ls | less</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"> <b>NAME<br> ls – list directory contents<br><br> SYNOPSIS<br> ls [-@ABCFGHILOPRSTUWabcdefghiklmnopqrstuvwxy1%,] [--color=when]<br> [-D format] [file ...]</b><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><b><br></b></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><b> </b>and the same question about "ls" on Windows 11 powershell:</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"> help ls | less # typed in PS</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"> </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><img src="cid:ii_lx8ic0sp0" alt="image.png" width="472" height="332"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><b> </b></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">How did we let this happen?</div></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 9, 2024 at 6:59 AM A. P. Garcia <<a href="mailto:a.phillip.garcia@gmail.com">a.phillip.garcia@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div><br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sun, Jun 9, 2024, 7:35 AM Douglas McIlroy <<a href="mailto:douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">douglas.mcilroy@dartmouth.edu</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">Eloquently put. Amen!</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">doug</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">> Unix brought automation to the forefront of possibilities. Using Unix,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">> anyone could do it - even that kid in Jurassic Park. Today, everything</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">> is GUI and nothing can be automated easily or, most of the time,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">> not at all.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">> Unix is an ever shrinking oasis in a desert of non-automation and complexity.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:monospace,monospace">> It is the loss of automation possibilities that frustrates me the most</div></div></div></blockquote></div></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Do I have to be that guy? I hate windows. I love Unix. But the above isn't really true. MS has actually done a good job of catching up in that department. All major apps have Powershell libraries. I envy some features of Powershell, but I still won't use it unless I have to.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">One example is PowerCLI, which is very useful for vSphere automation. Easier to use than their other language APIs, in my opinion. I could go on with other examples (Active Directory, MSSQL, Exchange), but I think the point is made...</div><div dir="auto"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
</blockquote></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br clear="all"><div><br></div><span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature"><font face="'courier new', monospace"><span style="font-weight:900"><div>Advice is judged by results, not by intentions.</div><div> Cicero</div></span></font><div><br></div></div>