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<p>I don't think any makefiles I've written do all of that. I guess
I don't expect all of that in one place. So i will have some
makefiles that are really portable, because they are very
compute-bound or their interface to the world is something else
generic, like files. And then for more platform-specific parts I
would have different makefiles for different platforms.<br>
</p>
One-button, one command-build (that seems) identical for all
platforms, is not that important to me. And yes, sometimes I write
scripts to do the parts of a build in sequence. And I don't consider
any of this 'hard', but I'm not trying make the builds look like
they are the same, even if they are really quite different. The GNU
./configure, make model is one model. CMake and other makefile
generators are another. But I have used several compilers or other
general purpose tools that have more than one makefile or build
script, depending on the platform, and I just take the tool for what
it is, and use it. And when I have to debug or change something
about the build, it's MUCH easier to work with makefiles and build
scripts than it is to extend configure scripts, or extend a
build-specification in a build-tool-specific language. In my
experience, so far. But some people will get into configure and/or
CMake or any of the others and learn how to be productive that way.
More power to them, but I don't enjoy doing that. When I have had to
use CMake, it seemed to require more specification on my part to
generate all sorts of crufty state, so every build was not
necessarily the same, unless I used the right commands or deleted
all these extra directories full of persistence from the last CMake
or build, to write all these weird, generated, unreadablemakefiles
calling makefiles, doing no more than I could easily do by hand in
one makefile. No, my hand-written makefiles will not be absolutely
universal, or appear to be, but they will work in a way I can
predict, and that is of great value to me.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 06/18/2024 05:46 PM, Nevin Liber
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAGg_6+P8h+czyXx0uxPDSJKUtWsMjsbD6ZGwJtHDbmiFvgxFTw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">On Tue, Jun 18, 2024 at 7:09 PM Luther Johnson
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:luther.johnson@makerlisp.com">luther.johnson@makerlisp.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I
agree with Greg here. In fact even if it was well done, it
is<br>
declaring something that wasn't really a problem, to be a
problem, to<br>
insert itself as the solution, but I think it's just extra
stuff and<br>
steps that ultimately obfuscates and creates yet more
dependencies.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>That's a really bold claim. You may not like the
solution (I don't tend to comment on it because unlike some
here, I recognize that build systems are a Hard Problem and
I don't know how to make a better solution), but that
doesn't mean it isn't solving real problems.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>But I'll bite. There was the claim by Larry McVoy that
"Writing Makefiles isn't that hard".</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Please show these beautiful makefiles for a non-toy
non-trivial product (say, something like gcc or llvm), which
make it easy to change platforms, underlying compilers,
works well with modern multicore processors, gets the
dependencies right (one should never have to type "make
clean" to get a build working correctly), etc. and doesn't
require blindly running some 20K line shell script like
"configure" to set it up.</div>
</div>
<span class="gmail_signature_prefix">-- </span><br>
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature">
<div dir="ltr">
<div> Nevin ":-)" Liber <mailto:<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nevin@eviloverlord.com" target="_blank">nl</a><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:iber@gmail.com"
target="_blank">iber@gmail.com</a>> +1-847-691-1404</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
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