<html>
<head>
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv="Content-Type">
</head>
<body bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p>I really enjoy all the history and perspective. A phrase just
popped in to my head, that I think for me, sums up much of Unix
evolution. And it is something that not all Linux developers get,
as many continue to mutate Linux further and further away from
traditional Unix ideas:<br>
</p>
Necessity is the mother of <b>convention</b>.<br>
<br>
I think what I wish more of the Linux community would understand, is
that most of Unix design style is what it is, in order to deal with
the above-stated reality, in a simple and practical way. Many times,
when faced with a choice that might seem arbitrary at the time, but
because I know that I never know, which choices will live on and
have future impacts, I think WWUD (what would Unix do) ?<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 08/12/2024 10:34 AM, Clem Cole
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAC20D2MTrT_Rusw_pM7CBES2Uc296=GGapXqX8oPMSFwdoNxuw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font
color="#0000ff">Erik - great job - nothing to quibble
about, here adding a little color.</font></div>
</div>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at
4:16 AM Erik E. Fair <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:fair-tuhs@netbsd.org">fair-tuhs@netbsd.org</a>>
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">The key building is Evans
Hall, a large, brutalist croncrete thing that is slated to
be demolished & replaced for earthquake concerns.<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evans_Hall_%28UC_Berkeley%29"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evans_Hall_(UC_Berkeley)</a><br>
<br>
ARPANET was connected to the Ingres PDP-11/45 (or 11/70?) in
Cory Hall<br>
</blockquote>
<div><span class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font
color="#0000ff">Ing70 via a VDH interface to LBL</font></span> <span
class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font
color="#0000ff">was rather late in the ARPANET history.</font></span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font
color="#0000ff"><br>
</font></span></div>
<div><span class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font
color="#0000ff">UCB was supposed to have its own
connection earlier, but for reasons I never knew, it did
not happen. I understand that it was targeted to be
installed in the computer center, and UCB politics
somehow waylayed it. When the Ingres contract was let,
the Ingres team got the VDH connection as a part of it.
No other systems could connect to the ARPANET. As Erik
mentioned, in '78 Eric Schimdt's MS thesis work was
developing the RS-232C 9600 baud "Berk-Net" for three
machines -- 2 in Evan and then a wire in the steam
tunnel that Bob Kridle pulled allowed them to connect
the Cory Hall70, which was the "student" system that was
were the primary work for 1BSD and 2BSD occurred
(ex/csh et al.). Bob later ran a serial line up the
stairwells of Cory and picked up the Ingres and the
first CAD machine. Kurt Shoens, who was the primary UCB
Mail author, hacked the Berknet support into his work.
One of his primary additions was removing the "delivery"
part of the mail into a separate program - that he
called "delivermail." </font></span></div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font
color="#0000ff">Eric Alman was the system administrator
of Ing70, so Eric hacked delivermail to pass email to
and from the Berknet to the ARPANET. </font><span
style="color:rgb(0,0,255)">All was good until Ernie
covax showed up and was connected to the UUCP net ;-)</span></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font
color="#0000ff"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font
color="#0000ff">Eric refers to that time as "the email
format of the week" and sendmail was created to allow
him to more easily handle the different formats. By
then there was the DARPA 733/822 format (user@host),
Berknet (host:user), UUCP (host1!host2...!hostn!user)
being sources at UCB, as well as crap showing up from
the IBM Educational System, CSNET and various other
places trying be exchanged.</font></div>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
The CS department (College of Letters & Science) offices
were on the 5th floor.<br>
</blockquote>
<div><font color="#0000ff"><span class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Ah .. but
CS was a division </span><span class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">of EECS
-- very interesting history about that. The EE Dept was
considered top three in the country and #1 by many
ratings. They already had a huge history of working
with industry and had created the Industrial Laison
Office (ILO - which was how the UNIX BSD tapes were
distributed until the creation of CSRG and a factoid.
The ILO folks advised Fabry on how to run CSRG)). When
CS was created, it was forked from the Math Dept. But,
the Regents felt that if the CS was to have a chance to
become a top 10 program, it needed to be put under the
auspices of the EE Dept like MIT was -- and was attached
to EE -- hence EECS.</span></font></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
The main campus computer center was in the basement, but
they charged by the CPU/second, so only classes used those
systems - in my day (1980-1983), the computer center had a
CDC 6400 and six or seven DEC PDP-11/70s.</blockquote>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font
color="#0000ff">I could be wrong - but ISTR, there was
an IBM 360/370 system down there also. </font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font
color="#0000ff"><br>
</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font
color="#0000ff">The 70s were used to teach CS courses
such as the one I taught -- I think Bart Miller, Mike
Carey and I taught CS-40 a qtr or two after Erik was an
undergrad.</font></div>
<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"> BerkNet (RS-232c long
haul lines) connected the PDP-11s</blockquote>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font
color="#0000ff">Actually, not at all, which was all the
more amazing. There were just CAT3 twisted pair with no
conditioning. When we had an electrical storm, it was
not usually to have the replace the 488/489 transcievers
in the DHs or DZs. Kridle got pretty adept and putting
machines sockets into the boards and he kept a box of
chips in his office. </font></div>
<br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">, and later the VAXen,
though Ethernet supplanted it.<br>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><font
color="#0000ff">It was initially with 3Mbit Xerox
boards. We were a little itchy about that, so Bob got an
optical coupler/repeater (I assume from Xerox, but I
don't know) in Cory's CAD machine room. The 10M stuff
came about two years later, originally 3COM equipment
with. There was a LAN in the Ingres machine room,
another in the CAD, and another in CSRG's in Evans.
The UCB CAD machine was on all three networks as it was
in the middle. That is why Sam wrote the original
routed stuff -- based on things he had seen at PARC for
PUP.</font></div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</body>
</html>