From tuhs at tuhs.org Fri Feb 9 23:27:30 2024 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Andrew Lynch via TUHS) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2024 13:27:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [TUHS] Unix System V on the Public Domain 32000 (NS32016 chip set) reproduction References: <1813140132.295580.1707485250727.ref@mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1813140132.295580.1707485250727@mail.yahoo.com> Hi I am interested in reconstructing the Public Domain 32000 (PD32) which appeared in 1986 edition of MicroCornicopia.   It claimed to run Unix System V on a PC 8-bit ISA board using the NS32016 chip set.  Does anyone remember this system and/or have any interest in it? Here is a link from Hackaday more fully describing the effort: ISA bus slave NS32016 processor board | Hackaday.io Thanks, Andrew Lynch -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From moody at posixcafe.org Sat Feb 10 04:11:25 2024 From: moody at posixcafe.org (Jacob Moody) Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2024 12:11:25 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] 32V filesystem images to verify code against. Message-ID: <75dc61d7-9281-47bf-83db-3e58f261f5bb@posixcafe.org> Hello TUHS, I recently have been working on the Plan 9 fs/v6fs and fs/v32fs programs, another member of the community had noticed bugs within them and I wanted to verify that the new code is working as expected. I haven't had an issue verifying v6fs using files from the TUHS archive but v32fs has proved to be a bit more tricky. After a little bit of work we were able to get the 'file2' located at https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/32V/ to mount and read files. But given that all the files here are binaries it was a bit hard to make sure we're getting the correct information. I attempted to cross reference the files I get against the file2.tar also located within that spot in the archive but I am getting tar errors when extracting this file, so its not exactly obvious if what I am checking against is correct. So I would like to ask if someone here knows exactly what the sha1sums of these files are supposed to be and/or has another image with known contents I could test against. I will preface this with the fact that I am not very well versed in old UNIX filesystems so please let me know if I've missed anything. Thank you, Jacob Moody From sjenkin at canb.auug.org.au Sat Feb 10 16:47:53 2024 From: sjenkin at canb.auug.org.au (steve jenkin) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2024 17:47:53 +1100 Subject: [TUHS] Role of Unix in Australian Accounting research: Ball & Brown, founding AGSM Message-ID: Accidentally ran into this today. I’ve never seen this put together and thought it worth adding to the TUHS archives. Hadn’t realised that both the authors of “Ball & Brown” (1968) were Aussies and UNSW alumni. Studying a little accounting, this paper was mentioned as ’the most cited’ paper in the field. The Big New Idea in 1968 was to use computers to analyse stock market data & show correlations. I hadn’t known either had come back to Australia (QLD or WA then UNSW/AGSM), then founded AGSM, with a focus on digital analysis of data. Ian Johnstone, from CSE, went to AGSM to run their computers. He recommended DEC + Unix and was backed by Brown, the director. [ Andy Hume was recruited by Ian J, before leaving for a job at Bell Labs in the Computing Research Centre. ] The AGSM license caused conniptions with the AT&T lawyers. While AGSM fell into the near free “University & Education” license, they weren’t using Unix just for ‘education’. AGSM became the first commercial licensee of Unix, or so I was told at the time. Ian Johnstone was AUUGN editor while at AGSM, before scooting off to the USA and rising to heights there. While Ball & Brown studied in Faculty of Commerce, they obviously had enough of a grounding in ‘computing’ and data collection / handling / analysis to set the stage for their 1968 paper. In 1971, Fortran IV was taught to first year students in Science, using John M Blatt’s (of UNSW) textbook. It’s not unreasonable that Finance & Accounting had courses or training in Computing 5 years before that. Within 10 years, they were both back at UNSW, running AGSM, teaching & using Digital research methods, based solidly on Unix… cheers steve =============== Looking back, I realise it must have been a fortuitous convergence for me: thanks to Philip Brown and Ian Johnstone, the AGSM had been running Unix machines since 1976; thanks to Bob Wood, I read of Bob Axelrod's work with GAs in examining the Repeated Prisoner's Dilemma before it was published (and Axelrod was also at Michigan); thanks to my innate curiosity, I had been reading and contributing to the Usenet news groups on the Internet since 1986. Sydney was not so far from Ann Arbor, finally. =============== Phillip Brown Philip Brown holds an important and unique place within the annals of Australian accounting. As co-author of the research paper that redefined the course of academic accounting research in the last forty years he inadvertently set the research agendas and directions for a legion of academics that followed. Philip started school at Riverstone in western Sydney with a short stint at Summer Hill in his final two years of primary education proceeding to Canterbury Boys High School where he scored an average pass in his Leaving Certificate. He then worked as a junior clerk in the accounting department of British Motor Corporation at Zetland. Advised to seek tertiary qualifications he thought he should enrol for a commerce degree at the University of NSW. Despite this advice, Philip enrolled as a part-time student in the Faculty of Commerce at University of New South Wales gaining the highest pass in the course. This level of achievement was maintained throughout his degree leading inevitably to an honours year, graduating with First Class Honours and taking a University Medal. After graduation Philip tutored at University of New South Wales, received a Fulbright Scholarship to study in the USA heading to the University of Chicago Graduate School of Business. He completed his MBA in 1963 finishing top of the class During this period [2 years after MBS] he met Ray Ball with whom he wrote a seminal paper that defined the course of accounting research for the next forty years. Rather than pursue a career in the United States, Philip returned to Australia as a Reader in Accounting at the University of Western Australia (July, 1968 – June, 1970). In 1974, Philip moved to Sydney to help establish the Australian Graduate School of Management (AGSM). As inaugural Foundation Director he introduced world-class MBA and MPA (public administration) programs to develop the skills of Australia's future leaders. During his AGSM days Philip championed the development of Australian data in financial accounting research. He saw the need for Australian share price data to be systematically collected and made available to researchers spending a great deal of time personally collecting data and providing programming support for these databases. The existence of these databases as a high quality resource for researchers is often taken for granted today but it was the foresight scholars with foresight like Philip who saw the need and acted accordingly. =============== Ray Ball Raymond John Ball is one of the most influential contemporary accounting scholars, having held professorial positions in Australia at UNSW and Queensland, and in the United States at Rochester and Chicago. With a first-class honours degree and the University Medal from UNSW, Ray moved to the University of Chicago where he earned an MBA and PhD. In 1968 Ray Ball co-authored the seminal paper ‘An Empirical Evaluation of Accounting Income Numbers’ that revolutionised financial accounting research. Drawing on the developing financial economics literature and linking accounting information and share prices in a novel manner, the paper provided the foundation for modern capital markets-based research. As the inaugural recipient of the American Accounting Association’s Seminal Contributions to the Accounting Literature Award in 1986 it was observed that ‘no other paper … has played so important a role in the development of accounting research during the past thirty years’. It remains the most highly cited accounting research paper. Ray Ball has also had a major influence on accounting education in Australia, h aving been Professor of Accounting at the University of Queensland (1972-1976), and foundation professor at the Australian Graduate School of Management (UNSW) (1976-1986), where he was instrumental in the development of the first US-style PhD program in Accounting and Finance in Australia. During his time at Queensland and UNSW he was instrumental in developing rigorous empirical research in Australian capital markets, addressing issues such as the risk/return trade-off, dividend policy and taxation mechanisms. =============== -- Steve Jenkin, IT Systems and Design 0412 786 915 (+61 412 786 915) PO Box 38, Kippax ACT 2615, AUSTRALIA mailto:sjenkin at canb.auug.org.au http://members.tip.net.au/~sjenkin From andrew at humeweb.com Sun Feb 11 05:38:16 2024 From: andrew at humeweb.com (Andrew Hume) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2024 11:38:16 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] Role of Unix in Australian Accounting research: Ball & Brown, founding AGSM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: a minor update and a story. ianj did recruit me, but twice. he recruited me to AGSM. and then after he had switched to bell labs, he induced them (in a loose sense) to hire me. (although, our paths spread after we were both at bell labs.) the story is that Brown (the director of AGSM) was in the states recruiting future staff. he was in florida and happened to see an ad regarding medical malpractice claims with an Xray procedure from decades earlier. it turns out, he had that procedure done. he was able to have the damage repaired (i am fuzzy about the details), all because he saw the ad. > On Feb 9, 2024, at 10:47 PM, steve jenkin wrote: > [ Andy Hume was recruited by Ian J, before leaving for a job at Bell Labs in the Computing Research Centre. ] > > -- > Steve Jenkin, IT Systems and Design > 0412 786 915 (+61 412 786 915) > PO Box 38, Kippax ACT 2615, AUSTRALIA > > mailto:sjenkin at canb.auug.org.au http://members.tip.net.au/~sjenkin > From aek at bitsavers.org Sun Feb 11 05:43:24 2024 From: aek at bitsavers.org (Al Kossow) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2024 11:43:24 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] Original print of V7 manual? In-Reply-To: <0e512393f3fab5914a9c8c079d9b48d1@bl.org> References: <20240105221729.371EA37401DA@freecalypso.org> <20240106030254.B8D7537401FF@freecalypso.org> <20240106032236.llpryldqt7lbondn@illithid> <20240106040642.D949B37403C1@freecalypso.org> <0e512393f3fab5914a9c8c079d9b48d1@bl.org> Message-ID: <1650d5e7-d51e-5383-0cf1-42044f0be69b@bitsavers.org> >>> On 1/6/24 6:42 AM, amp1ron at gmail.com wrote: >>>> I have a copy of the HRW version of the Unix Programmer's Manual >> "Revised and Expanded Edition" for the 7th edition. Copyright 1983, 1979 > >>>> I'll be glad to send it to Al for scanning. PDF of the scan is on bitsavers now next to Volume 2 From sjenkin at canb.auug.org.au Mon Feb 12 06:51:30 2024 From: sjenkin at canb.auug.org.au (steve jenkin) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2024 07:51:30 +1100 Subject: [TUHS] Role of Unix in Australian Accounting research: Ball & Brown, founding AGSM In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4FA76B45-E3C7-4454-9078-DE21F89BAE25@canb.auug.org.au> Correction: they’d not done any computing at UNSW. Laurence Fisher at U Chicago ‘created the data base’. UNSW Faculty of Commerce / Accounting created the first "Information Systems” department & courses in 1974 under Cyril Brooks. AGSM at UNSW was created in 1976, with Ball & Brown working together again. On 12 Feb 2024, at 04:04, Ball, Ray wrote: Thanks for your interest. Neither Phil nor I had any exposure to computing at UNSW. With one exception we both started our programming with Fortran on the U Chicago 7094 (with job flows scheduled by a 7040). The exception is that in the summer of 1966, before leaving for Chicago, I interned at IBM in Sydney working on a 360, but that was pretty simple stuff. > On 10 Feb 2024, at 17:47, steve jenkin wrote: > > > > > While Ball & Brown studied in Faculty of Commerce, they obviously had enough of a grounding > in ‘computing’ and data collection / handling / analysis to set the stage for their 1968 paper. > > In 1971, Fortran IV was taught to first year students in Science, using John M Blatt’s (of UNSW) textbook. > It’s not unreasonable that Finance & Accounting had courses or training in Computing 5 years before that. > > Within 10 years, they were both back at UNSW, running AGSM, teaching & using Digital research methods, > based solidly on Unix… > > cheers > steve > -- Steve Jenkin, IT Systems and Design 0412 786 915 (+61 412 786 915) PO Box 38, Kippax ACT 2615, AUSTRALIA mailto:sjenkin at canb.auug.org.au http://members.tip.net.au/~sjenkin From tuhs at tuhs.org Thu Feb 15 07:03:43 2024 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (segaloco via TUHS) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2024 21:03:43 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] Census of Early (Pre-C Kernel) UNIX Documents Message-ID: <-OBZicoqgBL38VHqzUw1mUOFaa_Elrz3STodhVX8bwiZUcr80cw17pI58GoYFfc46nJd9A-pcDHfSya92TETrjg_piTVJfxTN4ghX8m8t1k=@protonmail.com> Hello everyone, I'm currently laying the groundwork for a restart of my mandiff project, expanding it to encompass not just the manual-proper, but also the documents leading to the "Documents for UNIX" collections as well. Thus far I'm about halfway done on a ROFF restoration of the earliest surviving draft of Dennis Ritchie's The UNIX Time-Sharing System paper[1], reconstructed from existing, later NROFF text and ROFF conventions from the Third Edition manual[2]. Thus far, the additional documents I've found explicitly referenced in the earlier days are: User's Reference Manual to B - K. Thompson[3] C Reference Manual - D. M. Ritchie[4 - see note] M6 Manual - A. D. Hall[5] ROFF Manual - J. F. Ossanna[6 - see note] A Manual for the TMG Compiler-writing Language - M. D. McIlroy[7] UNIX Assembler Manual - D. M. Ritchie[8 - see note] NROFF Users' Manual - J. F. Ossanna[9 - see note] YACC Manual - S. C. Johnson[10 - see note] Aside from these references, there are two other B papers, one a tutorial[11] by B. W. Kernighan and the other a MH-TSS reference by S. C. Johnson[12]. I don't think I saw either referenced in the manual-proper. The latter then makes further reference to a "Bell Laboratories BCPL" by R. H. Canaday and D. M. Ritchie, although I suspect this is lost, I can't find it. Anywho, my plan is to take any known ROFF/NROFF sources for the above documents and reconstruct the earliest versions possible and then add them to my revamped repository in the timeframes that they first start showing up as references in the manual to derive a more holistic view of the creation of manuals and guides in the early days. A few matters prompted me to start over: 1. Noticing that there is direct lineage between some of the text in the UnixEditionZero paper and later manual pages like as(I), I want to capture the base text as far back as possible, which in this case would mean ensuring a commit in the chain captures the transfer of the text from the UnixEditionZero paper to as(I) to give a more complete history. 2. Al Kossow has now scanned and preserved a UNIX Program Generic II manual, meaning I no longer have to make as many assumptions about what changed and what didn't in the USG/Research split. Thus far, assumptions about the Program Generic line have been based on the extant MERT manual (which in turn is described as deriving from the Program Generic III manual.) 3. The picture of PWB/2.0 is becoming a bit clearer as time goes on, but is still murky, and that has implications for the changes between the Sixth Edition (where my current mandiff repo[13] ends) and the Seventh Edition. Rather than having to go back and redo a bunch of work, I think the first pass can stand on its own as a source of guidance on redoing this. 4. The cleanliness of the repository history is not to my liking, there are several instances of multiple commits across pages related to some larger, holistic change that would really be easier to study if they were in one. Starting over, I now have a much clearer picture of V1->V6 that I can use to produce a tighter history. Anywho, to summarize what I'm looking for feedback on, first, are there any major documents I'm omitting from this investigation? Any particular technical memoranda that are crucial to the big picture? Additionally, is anyone aware whether USG Program Generic I (or earlier?) had a formal edition of the Programmer's Manual or if they would've just referred folks to the research manual prior to PG II? With the latter question I'm trying to determine if USG manual history starts with the PG II manual Al Kossow has scanned or if I should be considering a hole in the record where a PG I manual goes. Thanks for following along, hopefully getting this groundwork in place will ensure the next go at this project is even more fruitful than the last! - Matt G. --- References --- 1 - https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/McIlroy_v0/UnixEditionZero-Threshold_OCR.pdf 2 - https://www.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V3/man 3 - https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/kbman.html 4 - I may have a copy of the earliest version of this I can identify. The earliest version I can find online is dated January 15th, 1974 (https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/cman74.pdf) and contains the text "C is also available on the HIS 6070 computer at Murray Hill and on the IBM System/370 at Holmdel" whereas this particular copy of the paper states "C is also available on the HIS 6070 computer at Murray Hill, using a compiler written by A. Snyder and currently maintained by S. C. Johnson. A compiler for the IBM System/360/370 series is under construction." The manual is TROFF printout and isn't formatted as a memorandum like the link included here. References to the C Reference Manual begin to show up as early as the Second Edition manual, although these imply the C manual is still being written. Does anyone know if the C Reference Manual started in ROFF and then moved to NROFF some time before the earliest copies we're aware of? In any case, I intend to scan this copy, it just hasn't bubbled up in my project list yet. 5 - https://tuhs.pdp-11.org.ru/Documentation/TechReports/Bell_Labs/CSTRs/2.pdf 6 - I have a copy that defers from the one I could find here: https://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~doug/roff71/roff71.pdf It is not in technical memorandum format and also may be missing a few pages (in mine, the tutorial ends with the "Translation" section but the linked document contains a couple more paragraphs on page offset (.po), merge patterns, and an envoi (conclusion). The most striking difference is that the linked paper is Doug's version for TSS, but the paper I've got lists the invocation in the UNIX style (roff +N -M name1 name2 ...) and is likely representative of the UNIX version with Joe Ossanna's work. Doug if you catch this and believe the attribution on this page (https://wiki.tuhs.org/doku.php?id=systems:2nd_edition) should have your by-line or both you and jfo, happy to make the edit. The text of the UNIX version I have does seem to descend from your original paper. By the way, an even earlier version of this paper for runoff is available here (https://manpages.bsd.lv/history/runoff69.low.pdf) 7 - https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/1972_stuff/tmg.pdf 8 - This is first referenced in the Third Edition manual. Some of the text may derive from the second Appendix of the "UnixEditionZero" paper linked above, the manpage certainly has influence from that document. Not sure if any of that implies the manual may have started in ROFF, but in any case, constitutes an early reference. 9 - This reference first appears, verifiably, in the Third Edition. However, the Second Edition manual does list nroff(I) in the TOC, but this page is not actually included in the extant PDF in the archive. In any case, the earliest version of the NROFF Users' Manual I'm aware of is the Second Edition, dated 9/11/74. Is any such First Edition extant on the public record? 10 - The earliest reference to this manual I can find is in the Third Edition. Not sure if there are any earlier specimens than the text in the Sixth Edition sources. 11 - https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/btut.html 12 - https://www.bell-labs.com/usr/dmr/www/bref.html 13 - https://gitlab.com/segaloco/mandiff From lars at nocrew.org Thu Feb 15 17:20:33 2024 From: lars at nocrew.org (Lars Brinkhoff) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2024 07:20:33 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] Census of Early (Pre-C Kernel) UNIX Documents In-Reply-To: <-OBZicoqgBL38VHqzUw1mUOFaa_Elrz3STodhVX8bwiZUcr80cw17pI58GoYFfc46nJd9A-pcDHfSya92TETrjg_piTVJfxTN4ghX8m8t1k=@protonmail.com> (segaloco via TUHS's message of "Wed, 14 Feb 2024 21:03:43 +0000") References: <-OBZicoqgBL38VHqzUw1mUOFaa_Elrz3STodhVX8bwiZUcr80cw17pI58GoYFfc46nJd9A-pcDHfSya92TETrjg_piTVJfxTN4ghX8m8t1k=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <7wh6iagpmm.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> Matt G wrote: > C is also available on the HIS 6070 computer at Murray Hill, using a > compiler written by A. Snyder and currently maintained by S. C. Johnson Some of which has been preserved. E.g. search for HIS-6000 in these files: https://github.com/PDP-10/its/tree/master/doc/c Here's some definitions for the code generator: https://github.com/PDP-10/its/blob/master/src/c/h6000.gt From jsg at jsg.id.au Thu Feb 15 18:34:54 2024 From: jsg at jsg.id.au (Jonathan Gray) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2024 19:34:54 +1100 Subject: [TUHS] Census of Early (Pre-C Kernel) UNIX Documents In-Reply-To: <-OBZicoqgBL38VHqzUw1mUOFaa_Elrz3STodhVX8bwiZUcr80cw17pI58GoYFfc46nJd9A-pcDHfSya92TETrjg_piTVJfxTN4ghX8m8t1k=@protonmail.com> References: <-OBZicoqgBL38VHqzUw1mUOFaa_Elrz3STodhVX8bwiZUcr80cw17pI58GoYFfc46nJd9A-pcDHfSya92TETrjg_piTVJfxTN4ghX8m8t1k=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 09:03:43PM +0000, segaloco via TUHS wrote: > Hello everyone, I'm currently laying the groundwork for a restart of my mandiff project, expanding it to encompass not just the manual-proper, but also the documents leading to the "Documents for UNIX" collections as well. Thus far I'm about halfway done on a ROFF restoration of the earliest surviving draft of Dennis Ritchie's The UNIX Time-Sharing System paper[1], reconstructed from existing, later NROFF text and ROFF conventions from the Third Edition manual[2]. dmr_tapes/dmr2/tp/paper/ in Applications/Dennis_Tapes/dmr_tapes.tgz https://github.com/DoctorWkt/unix_timesharing_paper may also interest you > > Thus far, the additional documents I've found explicitly referenced in the earlier days are: > > User's Reference Manual to B - K. Thompson[3] > C Reference Manual - D. M. Ritchie[4 - see note] > M6 Manual - A. D. Hall[5] > ROFF Manual - J. F. Ossanna[6 - see note] > A Manual for the TMG Compiler-writing Language - M. D. McIlroy[7] > UNIX Assembler Manual - D. M. Ritchie[8 - see note] dmr_tapes/dmr2/tp/aman/ in Applications/Dennis_Tapes/dmr_tapes.tgz which also has: Regenerating System Software dmr_tapes/dmr2/tp/direc* Unix I/O System dmr_tapes/dmr2/tp/iosys From tom.perrine+tuhs at gmail.com Fri Feb 16 02:20:07 2024 From: tom.perrine+tuhs at gmail.com (Tom Perrine) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2024 08:20:07 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] Census of Early (Pre-C Kernel) UNIX Documents In-Reply-To: <7wh6iagpmm.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> References: <-OBZicoqgBL38VHqzUw1mUOFaa_Elrz3STodhVX8bwiZUcr80cw17pI58GoYFfc46nJd9A-pcDHfSya92TETrjg_piTVJfxTN4ghX8m8t1k=@protonmail.com> <7wh6iagpmm.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> Message-ID: There is SIMH for Multics (DPS-8 and similar) which should in theory also run any 6000-series machine code. --tep On Wed, Feb 14, 2024 at 11:20 PM Lars Brinkhoff wrote: > Matt G wrote: > > C is also available on the HIS 6070 computer at Murray Hill, using a > > compiler written by A. Snyder and currently maintained by S. C. Johnson > > Some of which has been preserved. E.g. search for HIS-6000 in these files: > https://github.com/PDP-10/its/tree/master/doc/c > > Here's some definitions for the code generator: > https://github.com/PDP-10/its/blob/master/src/c/h6000.gt > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tuhs at tuhs.org Fri Feb 16 10:12:13 2024 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey via TUHS) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2024 10:12:13 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] Census of Early (Pre-C Kernel) UNIX Documents In-Reply-To: References: <-OBZicoqgBL38VHqzUw1mUOFaa_Elrz3STodhVX8bwiZUcr80cw17pI58GoYFfc46nJd9A-pcDHfSya92TETrjg_piTVJfxTN4ghX8m8t1k=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <4d32143a-76df-4fad-b458-50e003a2ec55@tuhs.org> On 15/2/24 18:34, Jonathan Gray wrote: > dmr_tapes/dmr2/tp/paper/ in > Applications/Dennis_Tapes/dmr_tapes.tgz There is some text in dmr_tapes/dmr/bits as well. It should be a tp(1) file bit my tp extraction program (https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Tools/Tapes/tp-progs.tar.gz) doesn't recognise it. However, you can use 'strings -n 2' to extract just the text from the file. Cheers, Warren -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tuhs at tuhs.org Sun Feb 18 02:53:45 2024 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Rod Bartlett via TUHS) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2024 11:53:45 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Census of Early (Pre-C Kernel) UNIX Documents In-Reply-To: <-OBZicoqgBL38VHqzUw1mUOFaa_Elrz3STodhVX8bwiZUcr80cw17pI58GoYFfc46nJd9A-pcDHfSya92TETrjg_piTVJfxTN4ghX8m8t1k=@protonmail.com> References: <-OBZicoqgBL38VHqzUw1mUOFaa_Elrz3STodhVX8bwiZUcr80cw17pI58GoYFfc46nJd9A-pcDHfSya92TETrjg_piTVJfxTN4ghX8m8t1k=@protonmail.com> Message-ID: <941C3A94-7126-4297-A77A-3251CDAF8C24@mac.com> On Feb 14, 2024, at 4:03 PM, segaloco via TUHS wrote: > > whereas this particular copy of the paper states "C is also available on the HIS 6070 computer at Murray Hill, using a compiler written by A. Snyder and currently maintained by S. C. Johnson. In 1987 I worked for a contracting company which provided system software support for a Honeywell 6680 mainframe which happened to have a C compiler. I assume this compiler was based on the one mentioned in the paper. I recall it being difficult to port C source to the mainframe due to its inability to address anything smaller than a 36 bit word. I did manage to port a program in my spare time which generated images from the Mandelbrot set on the IBM PC. What took 10+ hours to generate on a fast PC of the time took a mere 3 minutes on the mainframe. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From douglas.mcilroy at dartmouth.edu Sun Feb 18 08:52:11 2024 From: douglas.mcilroy at dartmouth.edu (Douglas McIlroy) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2024 17:52:11 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] [idea] troff -Troff Message-ID: To expand on Branden's observation that translating from one member of the roff family to another is hard, I note that the final output usually presents a text in a shape that has been fine-tuned for appearance. In grammatic terms it might best be presented in transformational terms a la Chomsky: a basic text with a fairly simple grammar tweaked by pretty-printing transforms. Translation involves parsing input into an AST according to one grammar and unparsing to generate output according to another. Chomsky's work uses transformational grammars primarily for generation. I'm not aware of any implementation of the inverse: parsing according to a transformational grammar. Certainly no practical tools exist for doing so. Unfortunately, one doesn't consciously write roff according to the model I have outlined. This means that parsing it is more like parsing a natural language than a strictly defined programming language. So, the absence of formal tools is exacerbated. Roff scripts, like everyday English, are written according to an intuitive--and occasionally ad hoc--grammar that varies both with authors and with time. And seventy years of hard work has not yet fully automated the parsing of English. Doug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rich.salz at gmail.com Mon Feb 19 00:12:13 2024 From: rich.salz at gmail.com (Rich Salz) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2024 09:12:13 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] Article on BSD, etc history Message-ID: https://www.abortretry.fail/p/the-berkley-software-distribution -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From douglas.mcilroy at dartmouth.edu Mon Feb 19 00:43:28 2024 From: douglas.mcilroy at dartmouth.edu (Douglas McIlroy) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2024 09:43:28 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] [idea] troff -Troff Message-ID: Apologies for posting the above title tonTUHS. It's not the first time that I've crossed signals between groff and TUHS, but hey, I've got 10 years on Biden. Doug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sjenkin at canb.auug.org.au Mon Feb 19 11:18:37 2024 From: sjenkin at canb.auug.org.au (steve jenkin) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2024 12:18:37 +1100 Subject: [TUHS] Older Geeks: Guy who invented Unix pipes on recent 'fat finger' problem Message-ID: Doug McIlroy is still around and contributing… With same insight & wry sense of humour :) =========== > Apologies for posting the above title tonTUHS. It's not the first time that > I've crossed signals between groff and TUHS, but hey, I've got 10 years on Biden. > > Doug -- Steve Jenkin, IT Systems and Design 0412 786 915 (+61 412 786 915) PO Box 38, Kippax ACT 2615, AUSTRALIA mailto:sjenkin at canb.auug.org.au http://members.tip.net.au/~sjenkin From martymcg at fastmail.com Mon Feb 19 23:53:30 2024 From: martymcg at fastmail.com (Marty McGowan, MIT Club of Princeton) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2024 08:53:30 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] [idea] troff -Troff In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3380a2a1-bf68-4cbe-99ba-bf74d88905e3@app.fastmail.com> I don't know if it's an AST, but I think pandoc ( https://pandoc.org/MANUAL.html ) comes close to the practical tool. I use it to translate HTML to Markdown, which I now prefer to OrgMode. =*+[]* Marty McGowan +1 908 230-3739 VP of Membership, MIT Club of Princeton On Sat, Feb 17, 2024, at 17:52, Douglas McIlroy wrote: > To expand on Branden's observation that translating from one member of the roff family to another is hard, I note that the final output usually presents a text in a shape that has been fine-tuned for appearance. In grammatic terms it might best be presented in transformational terms a la Chomsky: a basic text with a fairly simple grammar tweaked by pretty-printing transforms. > > Translation involves parsing input into an AST according to one grammar and unparsing to generate output according to another. Chomsky's work uses transformational grammars primarily for generation. I'm not aware of any implementation of the inverse: parsing according to a transformational grammar. Certainly no practical tools exist for doing so. > > Unfortunately, one doesn't consciously write roff according to the model I have outlined. This means that parsing it is more like parsing a natural language than a strictly defined programming language. So, the absence of formal tools is exacerbated. Roff scripts, like everyday English, are written according to an intuitive--and occasionally ad hoc--grammar that varies both with authors and with time. And seventy years of hard work has not yet fully automated the parsing of English. > > Doug -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tuhs at tuhs.org Tue Feb 20 05:58:58 2024 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey via TUHS) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2024 05:58:58 +1000 (AEST) Subject: [TUHS] The Web Service on Minnie is 30 Years Old Today Message-ID: <20240219195858.6ACEB431AE@minnie.tuhs.org> On Wed Feb 23 16:33, 1994, I turned on the web service on my machine "minnie", originally minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au, now minnie.tuhs.org (aka www.tuhs.org). The web service has been running continuously for thirty years, except for occasional downtimes and hardware/software upgrades. I think this makes minnie one of the longest running web services still in existence :-) For your enjoyment, I've restored a snapshot of the web site from around mid-1994. It is visible at https://minnie.tuhs.org/94Web/ Some hyperlinks are broken. ## Web Logs The web logs show me testing the service locally on Feb 23 1994, with the first international web fetches on Feb 26: ``` sparcserve.cs.adfa.oz.au [Wed Feb 23 16:33:13 1994] GET / HTTP/1.0 sparcserve.cs.adfa.oz.au [Wed Feb 23 16:33:18 1994] GET /BSD.html HTTP/1.0 sparcserve.cs.adfa.oz.au [Wed Feb 23 16:33:20 1994] GET /Images/demon1.gif HTTP/1.0 ... estcs1.estec.esa.nl [Sat Feb 26 01:48:21 1994] GET /BSD-info/BSD.html HTTP/1.0 estcs1.estec.esa.nl [Sat Feb 26 01:48:30 1994] GET /BSD-info/Images/demon1.gif HTTP/1.0 estcs1.estec.esa.nl [Sat Feb 26 01:49:46 1994] GET /BSD-info/cdrom.html HTTP/1.0 shazam.cs.iastate.edu [Sat Feb 26 06:31:20 1994] GET /BSD-info/BSD.html HTTP/1.0 shazam.cs.iastate.edu [Sat Feb 26 06:31:24 1994] GET /BSD-info/Images/demon1.gif HTTP/1.0 dem0nmac.mgh.harvard.edu [Sat Feb 26 06:32:04 1994] GET /BSD-info/BSD.html HTTP/1.0 dem0nmac.mgh.harvard.edu [Sat Feb 26 06:32:10 1994] GET /BSD-info/Images/demon1.gif HTTP/1.0 ``` ## Minnie to This Point Minnie originally started life in May 1991 as an FTP server running KA9Q NOS on an IBM XT with a 30M RLL disk, see https://minnie.tuhs.org/minannounce.txt By February 1994 Minnie was running FreeBSD 1.0e on a 386DX25 with 500M of disk space, 8M of RAM and a 10Base2 network connection. I'd received a copy of the BSDisc Vol.1 No.1 in December 1993. According to the date on the file `RELNOTES.FreeBSD` on the CD, FreeBSD 1.0e was released on Oct 28 1993. ## The Web Server I'd gone to a summer conference in Canberra in mid-February 1994 (see pg. 29 of https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/AUUGN/AUUGN-V15.1.pdf and https://minnie.tuhs.org/94Web/Canberra-AUUG/cauugs94.html, 10am) and I'd seen the Mosaic web browser in action. With FreeBSD running on minnie, it seemed like a good idea to set up a web server on her. NCSA HTTPd server v1.1 had been released at the end of Jan 1994, see http://1997.webhistory.org/www.lists/www-talk.1994q1/0282.html It was the obvious choice to be the web server on minnie. ## Minnie from Then to Now You can read more about minnie's history and her hardware/software evolution here: https://minnie.tuhs.org/minnie.html I obtained the "tuhs.org" domain in May 2000 and switched minnie's domain name from "minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au" to "minnie.tuhs.org". Cheers! Warren P.S. I couldn't wait until Friday to post this :-) From ake.nordin at netia.se Tue Feb 20 06:03:50 2024 From: ake.nordin at netia.se (=?UTF-8?Q?=C3=85ke_Nordin?=) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2024 21:03:50 +0100 Subject: [TUHS] Article on BSD, etc history In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 2024-02-18 15:12, Rich Salz wrote: > https://www.abortretry.fail/p/the-berkley-software-distribution Thanks, appreciated. Good read, seemingly fair balance between comprehensiveness and accessibility, no falsehoods that were obvious to me (but then I never had much insight). -- Åke Nordin , resident Net/Lunix/telecom geek. Netia Data AB, Stockholm SWEDEN *46*7O466Ol99# From dave at horsfall.org Tue Feb 20 06:05:05 2024 From: dave at horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2024 07:05:05 +1100 (EST) Subject: [TUHS] The Web Service on Minnie is 30 Years Old Today In-Reply-To: <20240219195858.6ACEB431AE@minnie.tuhs.org> References: <20240219195858.6ACEB431AE@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: Well done. sir! -- Dave From tuhs at tuhs.org Tue Feb 20 06:22:20 2024 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (segaloco via TUHS) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2024 20:22:20 +0000 Subject: [TUHS] Article on BSD, etc history In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3qimibH0Kq4mdoOpTtz7yYc5ujFgm2RmU92NRJ6Qxv_VH3r82psBBYNeL4yzK95PriIgw_Sj9DvdLIcZzlQWinVoXdamEal9OGz0XiMotWE=@protonmail.com> On Monday, February 19th, 2024 at 12:03 PM, Åke Nordin wrote: > On 2024-02-18 15:12, Rich Salz wrote: > > > https://www.abortretry.fail/p/the-berkley-software-distribution > > > Thanks, appreciated. > > Good read, seemingly fair balance between comprehensiveness and accessibility, no falsehoods that were obvious to me (but then I never had much insight). > > -- > Åke Nordin ake.nordin at netia.se, resident Net/Lunix/telecom geek. > > Netia Data AB, Stockholm SWEDEN 467O466Ol99# >From the article: > Eventually, Standiford reached out to Thompson, and Thompson > would connect to the University’s 11/45 over a three hundred > baud acoustic coupler to remotely debug crash dumps from New > Jersey. I personally like to imagine that it was a Novation > CAT 300, but I haven’t been able to find a model number of > the modem, and I haven’t found any reference to what system > Thompson was actually using. Plus, the Novation CAT 300 > wouldn’t be released for several years." I find this curious and wonder if Ken or someone else would have commentary on what sort of modem connection was actually in use? When I read that, my mind immediately went to the 300-baud WECo Data Set I've been experimenting with lately, I would imagine Bell Laboratories researchers had access to the cream-of-the-crop modem technologies coming out of WECo, or perhaps even experimental designs not yet mass-produced by WECo. Just the speculation my mind went to though. I know in later Bell System advertising and other visual content it is all too common to see the smaller Data Set units with their 6-button *500-series phones neatly nestled in next to whatever terminal was in use. Then going back further, you had the large Data Set units that mounted up inside the teletype frame. I seem to recall Clem Cole mentioning to me that the specifics of utilizing modems with terminals at the time were a little odd potentially due to rules on who could run wire for what in buildings, leading to modems being used where a serial connection would make more sense or vice versa but as with many things, I wasn't there and can't speak to specifics. - Matt G. From imp at bsdimp.com Tue Feb 20 06:35:52 2024 From: imp at bsdimp.com (Warner Losh) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2024 13:35:52 -0700 Subject: [TUHS] Article on BSD, etc history In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 1:04 PM Åke Nordin wrote: > On 2024-02-18 15:12, Rich Salz wrote: > > https://www.abortretry.fail/p/the-berkley-software-distribution > > Thanks, appreciated. > > Good read, seemingly fair balance between comprehensiveness and > accessibility, no falsehoods that were obvious to me (but then I never had > much insight). > I really enjoyed the read as well... I sent the author a few corrections, clarifications and additional data that he may roll into an updated version. Warner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rich.salz at gmail.com Tue Feb 20 06:58:18 2024 From: rich.salz at gmail.com (Rich Salz) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2024 15:58:18 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] The Web Service on Minnie is 30 Years Old Today In-Reply-To: <20240219195858.6ACEB431AE@minnie.tuhs.org> References: <20240219195858.6ACEB431AE@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: > > I think this makes minnie one of the longest running web services > still in existence :-) > Congrats. In a ship of Theseus sense.:) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From imp at bsdimp.com Tue Feb 20 07:01:53 2024 From: imp at bsdimp.com (Warner Losh) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2024 14:01:53 -0700 Subject: [TUHS] The Web Service on Minnie is 30 Years Old Today In-Reply-To: References: <20240219195858.6ACEB431AE@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 1:58 PM Rich Salz wrote: > I think this makes minnie one of the longest running web services >> still in existence :-) >> > > Congrats. In a ship of Theseus sense.:) > We all sail in the Unix ship of Theseus... Every system today had code from Unix directly, or from another ship that was built of the builts of one that was split between a couple of groups. Yes, even Linux: lots of networking userland came from BSD, for example, and while lots have been rewritten, that's kinda the point of the ship of Theseus... :) Warner -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From clemc at ccc.com Tue Feb 20 07:14:20 2024 From: clemc at ccc.com (Clem Cole) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2024 16:14:20 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] The Web Service on Minnie is 30 Years Old Today In-Reply-To: References: <20240219195858.6ACEB431AE@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 4:02 PM Warner Losh wrote: > > > On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 1:58 PM Rich Salz wrote: > >> I think this makes minnie one of the longest running web services >>> still in existence :-) >>> >> >> Congrats. In a ship of Theseus sense.:) >> > > *We all sail in the Unix ship of Theseus..*. Every system today had code > from Unix directly, or from another ship that was built of the builts of > one that was split between a couple of groups. Yes, even Linux: lots of > networking userland came from BSD, for example, and while lots have been > rewritten, that's kinda the point of the ship of Theseus... :) > +1 My observation is that Linux is just the current (and most successful) implementation of ideas that Doug, Ken, Rudd, Dennis, *et al.* started and others have contributed to over the years. And like the thought experiment described, there is no reason why the ship can not be changed. It still sails the same way to the same places. ᐧ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From audioskeptic at gmail.com Tue Feb 20 07:45:22 2024 From: audioskeptic at gmail.com (James Johnston) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2024 13:45:22 -0800 Subject: [TUHS] The Web Service on Minnie is 30 Years Old Today In-Reply-To: References: <20240219195858.6ACEB431AE@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: Well done. Has the hardware evolved? I presume so, but I do remember one legacy machine from the early 1980's at BTL (icarus, an 11/23), that when it shut down forever in 1996, was a microvax, with its bus connected to a standard PDP11 bus, that connected to a Q-bus, and the original discs were still on line. It's uptime was never more than 350+ days, though, because of once a year UPS testing. In its last incarnation, it did nothing but mail routing, and that barely. I don't think anything changed on it in the last 10 years, not even the system. On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 1:15 PM Clem Cole wrote: > > > On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 4:02 PM Warner Losh wrote: > >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 1:58 PM Rich Salz wrote: >> >>> I think this makes minnie one of the longest running web services >>>> still in existence :-) >>>> >>> >>> Congrats. In a ship of Theseus sense.:) >>> >> >> *We all sail in the Unix ship of Theseus..*. Every system today had code >> from Unix directly, or from another ship that was built of the builts of >> one that was split between a couple of groups. Yes, even Linux: lots of >> networking userland came from BSD, for example, and while lots have been >> rewritten, that's kinda the point of the ship of Theseus... :) >> > +1 > My observation is that Linux is just the current (and most > successful) implementation of ideas that Doug, Ken, Rudd, Dennis, *et al.* > started and others have contributed to over the years. And like the > thought experiment described, there is no reason why the ship can not be > changed. It still sails the same way to the same places. > > > ᐧ > -- James D. (jj) Johnston Chief Scientist, Immersion Networks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From douglas.mcilroy at dartmouth.edu Tue Feb 20 12:10:29 2024 From: douglas.mcilroy at dartmouth.edu (Douglas McIlroy) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2024 21:10:29 -0500 Subject: [TUHS] The Web Service on Minnie is 30 Years Old Today In-Reply-To: References: <20240219195858.6ACEB431AE@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: Warren, Well done indeed! Though the first website, info.cern.ch, is still running, it's not under the loving care of its originator. Doug On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 4:45 PM James Johnston wrote: > Well done. Has the hardware evolved? I presume so, but I do remember one > legacy machine from the early 1980's at BTL (icarus, an 11/23), that when > it shut down forever in 1996, was a microvax, with its bus connected to a > standard PDP11 bus, that connected to a Q-bus, and the original discs were > still on line. It's uptime was never more than 350+ days, though, because > of once a year UPS testing. In its last incarnation, it did nothing but > mail routing, and that barely. I don't think anything changed on it in the > last 10 years, not even the system. > > On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 1:15 PM Clem Cole wrote: > >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 4:02 PM Warner Losh wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2024 at 1:58 PM Rich Salz wrote: >>> >>>> I think this makes minnie one of the longest running web services >>>>> still in existence :-) >>>>> >>>> >>>> Congrats. In a ship of Theseus sense.:) >>>> >>> >>> *We all sail in the Unix ship of Theseus..*. Every system today had >>> code from Unix directly, or from another ship that was built of the builts >>> of one that was split between a couple of groups. Yes, even Linux: lots of >>> networking userland came from BSD, for example, and while lots have been >>> rewritten, that's kinda the point of the ship of Theseus... :) >>> >> +1 >> My observation is that Linux is just the current (and most >> successful) implementation of ideas that Doug, Ken, Rudd, Dennis, *et >> al.* started and others have contributed to over the years. And like >> the thought experiment described, there is no reason why the ship can not >> be changed. It still sails the same way to the same places. >> >> >> ᐧ >> > > > -- > James D. (jj) Johnston > > Chief Scientist, Immersion Networks > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sauer at technologists.com Tue Feb 20 14:53:06 2024 From: sauer at technologists.com (Charles H. Sauer) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2024 22:53:06 -0600 Subject: [TUHS] The Web Service on Minnie is 30 Years Old Today In-Reply-To: References: <20240219195858.6ACEB431AE@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: <969580E5-A851-476C-B465-DD09E5A5EB32@technologists.com> As well known, HTTP has marched forward and left 0.9 behind -- neither http://tuhs.org/ nor http://info.cern.ch/, both servers apparently running Apache 2.4 versions, can be accessed by timbl’s WorldWideWeb 0.15 app on NEXTSTEP. I just verified on the machine described in https://notes.technologists.com/notes/2019/07/01/koko-reviving-timbls-worldwideweb-browser/ that the original app accessing those URIs results in HTTP 400, as expected, but accessing an Apache 2.0.47 sever from the original app responds with HTTP 200 and the appropriate HTML. Charlie > On Feb 19, 2024, at 8:10 PM, Douglas McIlroy wrote: > > Warren, > > Well done indeed! Though the first website, info.cern.ch , is still running, it's not under the loving care of its originator. > > Doug -- voice: +1.512.784.7526 e-mail: sauer at technologists.com fax: +1.512.346.5240 web: https://technologists.com/sauer/ Facebook/Google/LinkedIn/Twitter: CharlesHSauer -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From arnold at skeeve.com Tue Feb 20 17:18:04 2024 From: arnold at skeeve.com (arnold at skeeve.com) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2024 00:18:04 -0700 Subject: [TUHS] The Web Service on Minnie is 30 Years Old Today In-Reply-To: <20240219195858.6ACEB431AE@minnie.tuhs.org> References: <20240219195858.6ACEB431AE@minnie.tuhs.org> Message-ID: <202402200718.41K7I47h023624@freefriends.org> Warren Toomey via TUHS wrote: > On Wed Feb 23 16:33, 1994, I turned on the web service on my machine > "minnie", originally minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au, now minnie.tuhs.org (aka > www.tuhs.org). The web service has been running continuously for thirty > years, except for occasional downtimes and hardware/software upgrades. > > I think this makes minnie one of the longest running web services > still in existence :-) Warren, Thank you again for both web serviced and TUHS in general. It's been an invaluable resource for literally decades. Arnold From tuhs at tuhs.org Wed Feb 21 14:04:41 2024 From: tuhs at tuhs.org (Warren Toomey via TUHS) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 14:04:41 +1000 Subject: [TUHS] 30,000 TUHS mailing list postings Message-ID: All, while I'm reminiscing about Minnie's history, I just noticed that we have hit 30,000 postings on the combined TUHS/PUPS mailing list. Here is some details about the list's history: Cheers, Warren ## 31st Oct 1995: Start of the PUPS mailing list https://www.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/1995-October/000001.html This catered for the PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society. ## 3rd Sep 1997: Majordomo List Software https://www.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/1997-September/000132.html Before this I was using /etc/aliases and sendmail for the list. ## 13th June 2000: TUHS List Created https://www.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/2000-June/001491.html At this point both PUPS and TUHS lists were running at the same time. There was some discussion as to the need for separate lists before this, see https://www.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/2000-June/001413.html ## 1st Oct 2001: Changeover to Mailman 2 https://www.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/2001-October/001912.html ## Oct 2013: Last PUPS Posting https://www.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/2013-October/thread.html ## Feb 2017: PUPS has been Merged with TUHS https://www.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/2017-February/009730.html mentions the merge but not the date. ## 18 May 2022: Mailman 3 Upgrade https://www.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/2022-May/025852.html From norman at oclsc.org Thu Feb 22 03:32:59 2024 From: norman at oclsc.org (Norman Wilson) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2024 12:32:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: [TUHS] 30,000 TUHS mailing list postings Message-ID: <813704AB6E140C4FFF33D5027CBD29C5.for-standards-violators@oclsc.org> All, while I'm reminiscing about Minnie's history, I just noticed that we have hit 30,000 postings on the combined TUHS/PUPS mailing list. === In the spirit of early Unix, does that mean the message number has wrapped back to low numbers, skipping those occupied by messages still running, like process IDs? Norman Wilson (temporarily thousands of km from) Toronto ON