Could someone point me to some information about s editor?

Googling didn't help

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020, 9:00 PM <tuhs-request@minnie.tuhs.org wrote:
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Today's Topics:

   1. v7 uucp debugging help requested (Adam Thornton)
   2. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole)
   3. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Grant Taylor)
   4. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (John Cowan)
   5. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole)
   6. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole)
   7. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Norman Wilson)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 13:52:42 -0700
From: Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com>
To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID:
        <CAP2nic3UNxqi-obHwB5H+Ee+x5MKsd=eBrwhVbX+Ao3AgVPx=g@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

(if this is better suited for COFF, that'd be fine too)

I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry Pi host.
This plus the "s" editor (already working) are really all that's needed to
make this something pretty close to a daily driver, if all I wanted to do
was write text files (which in some sense is all my job _is_, but to be
fair I get a much more immediate feedback loop in my current environment).

I was following
https://github.com/jwbrase/pdp11-tools/blob/master/howtos/V7%20UUCP%20Installation%20Guide.pdf
more or less--I had already rebuilt v7 with the DZ terminal driver and was
using it for interactive sessions (albeit, before I started trying to get
UUCP running, with 7-bit line discipline--but I've since changed that).

I have 16 DZ lines, I've set them to 8-bit mode.  They're working fine,
because I can use them for terminal sessions.

I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi.

I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost works.

>From the Pi side, I see (with uulog):

uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port TCP)
uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful
uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful (protocol
'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7)
uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending
/home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes)
uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiting for
packet
uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: sent 86,
resent 6, received 1
uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum 0,
order 0, remote rejects 0
uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds 5440
bytes 19 bps)

So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end is
starting uucico as expected:

login: pi-uucp
Password:
Shere

uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in the
spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout waiting
for packet.

So my question is, what else do I do to debug this?  Clearly the pi (Taylor
UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an acknowledgement?--from the
v7 side to let it know the transmission was successful.

Any help would be appreciated.

Adam
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Message: 2
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 17:26:48 -0400
From: Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>
To: Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com>
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID:
        <CAC20D2Mxug+DdwUcS-FDvWzt4ysmZkZDtVgQ8_HYAz2kpPVS8g@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 4:54 PM Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com> wrote:

> (if this is better suited for COFF, that'd be fine too)
>
> I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry Pi
> host.  This plus the "s" editor (already working) are really all that's
> needed to make this something pretty close to a daily driver, if all I
> wanted to do was write text files (which in some sense is all my job _is_,
> but to be fair I get a much more immediate feedback loop in my current
> environment).
>
> I was following
> https://github.com/jwbrase/pdp11-tools/blob/master/howtos/V7%20UUCP%20Installation%20Guide.pdf
> more or less--I had already rebuilt v7 with the DZ terminal driver and was
> using it for interactive sessions (albeit, before I started trying to get
> UUCP running, with 7-bit line discipline--but I've since changed that).
>
> I have 16 DZ lines, I've set them to 8-bit mode.  They're working fine,
> because I can use them for terminal sessions.
>
As a long time UUCP person on PDP-11's, "Danger Will Robinson."

Just for grins and giggles on the V7/PDP-11 side, try it over a DH  (VH
driver in simh) emulation (or even a KL/DL - although the
simulated interrupts will be a mother).  That said, the VH driver is a not
exactly a DH as I understand it, its the later QBUS version which was
similar but different.   It's been on my list of things I want to chase
down at some point to make work to get it closer to the original.

FYI: Running UUCP over real DZ's was always troublesome.  There were a ton
of updates/patches done post the original V7 release in the DZ drivers to
make them play better.   Most of us that ran large UUCP set up in the old
days, installed ABLE DMAX (DH/DM) that were a single board DH replacement -
they are DMA, and buffered (and supported proper modem control which the
DZ's don't - although later UCB work on the driver sort of faked it enough
to make to it work for basic dial-up use reasonably reliably).
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 16:38:31 -0600
From: Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net>
To: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID: <01f8f896-9921-6c55-8dc2-6b9859f2f230@tnetconsulting.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"

On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
> I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi.
>
> I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost works.

Which system are you referring to here?  The Pi or V7?

>  From the Pi side, I see (with uulog):
>
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port TCP)
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful
> (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7)
> uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending
> /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes)
> uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiting
> for packet
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: sent
> 86, resent 6, received 1

I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' protocol to
talk to v7.  I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP over
Ethernet connections.  As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the 'g'
protocol.

I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do.

I'm ignorantly asking questions.

> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum 0,
> order 0, remote rejects 0
> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds
> 5440 bytes 19 bps)
>
> So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end is
> starting uucico as expected:
>
> login: pi-uucp
> Password:
> Shere

Shouldn't that be something more like the following?

Shere=v7

What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show?  (I'm much more familiar with
Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7.

> uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in the
> spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout
> waiting for packet.
>
> So my question is, what else do I do to debug this?  Clearly the pi
> (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an
> acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmission was
> successful.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.

I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years and
I've forgotten more than comments above.



--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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Message: 4
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 18:50:24 -0400
From: John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org>
To: Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com>
Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs@tuhs.org>
Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID:
        <CAD2gp_QsNY1WnL1xeBAJbt=m1Af1nJ_BFTX6tRTLy=DzyQnUZg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 4:54 PM Adam Thornton <athornton@gmail.com> wrote:


> I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry Pi
> host.  This plus the "s" editor (already working)
>

What is this "s" editor?  The v7 man pages say nothing about it, and of
course Dr. Google is equally unhelpful.


John Cowan          http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan        cowan@ccil.org
We call nothing profound that is not wittily expressed.
        --Northrop Frye (improved)
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Message: 5
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 20:28:49 -0400
From: Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>
To: Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net>
Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID:
        <CAC20D2PRpAPcfou=ze2pdY5wRJnYbiYFxb-GcXK1P7SbZJFoPg@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Grant - The g (greg’s protocol) is correct. IIRC that’s the only line
protocol Dan distributed in the V7 original code base.

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 6:46 PM Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
wrote:

> On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
> > I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi.
> >
> > I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost works.
>
> Which system are you referring to here?  The Pi or V7?
>
> >  From the Pi side, I see (with uulog):
> >
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port TCP)
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful
> > (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7)
> > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending
> > /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes)
> > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiting
> > for packet
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: sent
> > 86, resent 6, received 1
>
> I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' protocol to
> talk to v7.  I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP over
> Ethernet connections.  As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the 'g'
> protocol.
>
> I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do.
>
> I'm ignorantly asking questions.
>
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum 0,
> > order 0, remote rejects 0
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds
> > 5440 bytes 19 bps)
> >
> > So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end is
> > starting uucico as expected:
> >
> > login: pi-uucp
> > Password:
> > Shere
>
> Shouldn't that be something more like the following?
>
> Shere=v7
>
> What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show?  (I'm much more familiar with
> Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7.
>
> > uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in the
> > spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout
> > waiting for packet.
> >
> > So my question is, what else do I do to debug this?  Clearly the pi
> > (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an
> > acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmission was
> > successful.
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated.
>
> I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years and
> I've forgotten more than comments above.
>
>
>
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
>
> --
Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
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Message: 6
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 20:31:05 -0400
From: Clem Cole <clemc@ccc.com>
To: Grant Taylor <gtaylor@tnetconsulting.net>
Cc: tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID:
        <CAC20D2Mt4t+Y4hqeDusB1rxw_CdzJsFySJnEcr2g1T6vUgDHbw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Grant. I wrote e for Ethernet based ( ip/ tcp ) connections at Masscomp so
we didn’t have hack the mailer at time.

On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 6:46 PM Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>
wrote:

> On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
> > I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi.
> >
> > I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost works.
>
> Which system are you referring to here?  The Pi or V7?
>
> >  From the Pi side, I see (with uulog):
> >
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port TCP)
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful
> > (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7)
> > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending
> > /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes)
> > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiting
> > for packet
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: sent
> > 86, resent 6, received 1
>
> I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' protocol to
> talk to v7.  I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP over
> Ethernet connections.  As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the 'g'
> protocol.
>
> I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do.
>
> I'm ignorantly asking questions.
>
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum 0,
> > order 0, remote rejects 0
> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds
> > 5440 bytes 19 bps)
> >
> > So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end is
> > starting uucico as expected:
> >
> > login: pi-uucp
> > Password:
> > Shere
>
> Shouldn't that be something more like the following?
>
> Shere=v7
>
> What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show?  (I'm much more familiar with
> Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7.
>
> > uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in the
> > spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout
> > waiting for packet.
> >
> > So my question is, what else do I do to debug this?  Clearly the pi
> > (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an
> > acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmission was
> > successful.
> >
> > Any help would be appreciated.
>
> I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years and
> I've forgotten more than comments above.
>
>
>
> --
> Grant. . . .
> unix || die
>
> --
Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
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Message: 7
Date: Fri,  3 Jul 2020 20:35:52 -0400 (EDT)
From: norman@oclsc.org (Norman Wilson)
To: tuhs@tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
Message-ID: <20200704003552.EB5914422E@lignose.oclsc.org>

Grant Taylor:

  I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' protocol to
  talk to v7.  I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP over
  Ethernet connections.  As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the 'g'
  protocol.

=====

You're mis-remembering.  g was the original protocol,
intended for use over possibly-noisy serial lines (e.g.
modems on POTS).  It does error checking of various
sorts with retransmission.  I believe it is named g
after the protocol's original designer, Greg Chesson.

Later protocols meant to work over reliable, error-
checked links like a TCP/IP circuit were t and e.

Norman Wilson
Toronto ON


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