Re: PUPS

In article by Mark D. Roth: I don't think you'll get Unix running on an /03, I just searched thru the paper archives here and I've seen references to /23's, /34's, 40's on up, but not for /03's. I'd suspect that the /03 doesn't have the memory management (nor the memory) to get Unix running. Mark, I'll add you to the list, and bounce this there as well; someone with more knowledge of -11 hardware should be able to set us both straight with regards to 11/03's. Cheers, Warren Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA16892 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>au>; Mon, 11 Aug 1997 13:53:33 +1000 (EST) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA21891; Sun, 10 Aug 1997 20:53:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 20:53:16 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <199708110353.UAA21891(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: roth(a)uiuc.edu, wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: PUPS Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Warren, Mark - Quite correct. Warren - you're absolutely right. The 11/03 has a maximum memory (most were not fully populated) of 56kbytes and _no_ memory management. Any Unix (since the initial one on the PDP-7) requires at least two memory management states: kernel and user. Much later versions can take advantage of the 3rd mode (supervisor). Smallest machine I ever ran Unix on was an 11/23 (the development was done on a 11/70 because various programs were too large to run on a non split I/D machine such as the 11/23) and it was, shall we say, "interesting". Just enough memory (max of 248kb) to run one or two user processes at a time (we had a rather large kernel and some homebrew communications drivers) - you could get logged in and then each time you typed a command the shell would get swapped out to run your command ;). You got it right - nothing to set straight. Steven Schultz Received: from hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.162]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id BAA15526 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>au>; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 01:51:15 +1000 (EST) Received: from dialup-port4.dcs.qmw.ac.uk [138.37.88.234]; by hotpoint.dcs.qmw.ac.uk (8.8.6/8.8.5/S-4.0) with ESMTP; id QAA14257; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:50:53 +0100 (BST) X-Sender: george(a)mailhost.dcs.qmw.ac.uk Message-Id: <l0311070db0221139bb07(a)[138.37.88.234]> In-Reply-To: <9708070839.AA04553(a)descartes.numerik.math.uni-siegen.de> References: <199708062322.JAA03135(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from "Warren Toomey" at Aug 7, 97 09:22:07 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:49:53 +0100 To: Michael Engel <engel(a)numerik.math.uni-siegen.de> From: George Coulouris <George.Coulouris(a)dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Subject: Re: George's PDP Tape in UK Cc: Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)aiai.ed.ac.uk>uk>, wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey), oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Dear Michael, Many thanks for your offer. Sorry for the delay in replying. If you are still willing I would like to take up your offer. If you will mail me your physical mail address, I'll send you the tape. As far as I can remember the tape is a UNIX tar archive, that should be readable on the VMS machine and you could give the files back to me by ftp. (I'm taking up your offer rather than Tim Bradshaw's because you seem to have had more recent success with reading old tapes. Thanks again, George At 9:39 am +0100 7/8/97, Michael Engel wrote: * > * We have a TU81+ 9 track tape connected to a VMS Alpha here. So, if you send * me the tape, I will try to read it. Worked perfectly some months ago for a * 10 yr. old tape from a DECsystem 10 ... * At 3:22 pm +0100 7/8/97, Tim Bradshaw wrote: * * We have old-tape-reading-technology, so we could give it a try. No * promises at all though (I have to turn the drive back on &c, and it's * not altogether clear that it will work, though it did last time I * tried it), asnd it will take me ages to get around to it, being very * inefficient... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ George F. Coulouris | Computer Science Dept Professor of Computer Systems | QMW, University of London WWW: http://www.dcs.qmw.ac.uk/~george | Mile End Road Phone: +44 171 975 5201 (direct line) | London E1 4NS Fax: +44 181 980 6533 | United Kingdom Home phone: +44 171 485 5896 | pager: 01426 183113 | Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA01510 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>au>; Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:45:29 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA03801 for oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:45:58 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199708270045.KAA03801(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:45:58 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, Here is the latest email from SCO with regards to PDP-11 UNIX source licenses. I'll add one comment at the bottom. Please treat this as YOUR EYES ONLY. I haven't got permission from Dion to forward this on (yet), but I think that more pairs of eyes than just mine need to have a look at it for any problems. ----- Forwarded message from Dion ----- From: Dion <dionj(a)sco.COM> X-Mailer: SCO OpenServer Mail Release 5.0 To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: Touching Base! Date: Tue, 26 Aug 97 12:45:07 PDT Warren, Good progress. We have some positive consensus developing. Here is the proposed license terms (roughly, not fully legalized yet). Please let me know if you see any problems with this proposal: Here are the terms that I think make sense: --------------------------------------------------------------------------- License terms: * the license covers the entire distributions (source code, binaries and documentation) of the following versions of UNIX: o 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th Edition UNIX o 32V UNIX o PWB/UNIX o those portions of all 2BSD releases which are derived from UNIX source code * licensees have these rights wrt the binaries and source code of the above versions of UNIX: use store reproduce edit adapt enchance improve otherwise modify transmit electronically repackage * These rights are licensed to noncommercial users. The source may not be sold nor used to develop commercial versions of UNIX. * licensees have the right to install UNIX binaries on PDP-11 hardware and PDP-11 emulating software * licensees have the right to allow noncommercial use the UNIX binaries on systems for which the product is licensed. (Note that the latter is already permitted, given SCO's binary license agreement for 5th, 6th and 7th Edition UNIX. We would also be happy with the following conditions imposed in the source code and binary license for PDP-11 UNIXes) * license is not transferable. * source code covered by the license cannot be distributed or disclosed to people not covered by the license. The licensees are permitted to collaborate on modifications and mutually share their modifications. * SCO is not required to provide copies of any source code, binaries or documentation with the source code and binary license for PDP-11 UNIXes License Fee: SCO charges a one-time license fee of $100 per licensee, for a site license for one organization. We may, at some future time, provide source distributions (if/when we can find the sources), but this is not committed. We know that the licensees have, between them, most of the needed sources. ----- End of forwarded message from Dion ----- My comment. The only thing I want to change is: * licensees have the right to install UNIX binaries on PDP-11 hardware and PDP-11 emulating software becomes * licensees have the right to install UNIX software on PDP-11 hardware and PDP-11 emulating software This allows us to install source so as to modify it or to rebuild kernels etc. I briefly raised the issue of source distribution (SCO or me? FTP or CD-ROM?), but I suggested that we leave it until the licenses go on sale. Please email your comments on this to the mailing list (oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au). Thanks, Warren wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA02507 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>au>; Wed, 27 Aug 1997 15:52:56 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA00316; Wed, 27 Aug 1997 15:51:21 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199708270551.PAA00316(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO To: sms(a)moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 15:51:20 +1000 (EST) Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) In-Reply-To: <199708270539.WAA16297(a)moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Aug 26, 97 10:39:11 pm" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In article by Steven M. Schultz: I've thought of a few more changes: In the wording from SCO, the status of `documentation' is unclear. The following should clear this up: + use the term software == `source, binaries and documentation' in many places where this is appropriate. + use the term `source' only where they want to restrict to licensees. + also, don't disclose `source' to people not covered by the SCO license or by existing UNIX software licenses from Western Electric and AT&T. Comments anybody? Warren Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA08783 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>au>; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:44:23 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id LAA03340; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:43:09 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199708290143.LAA03340(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO To: mcjones(a)pa.dec.com Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:43:09 +1000 (EST) Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) In-Reply-To: <9708281506.AA29078(a)numbat05-an2.pa.dec.com> from "mcjones(a)pa.dec.com" at "Aug 28, 97 08:06:23 am" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In article by mcjones(a)pa.dec.com: There's 300 signatures on the petition. I'd hope that 1/2 of those will buy licenses, and probably most would like the stuff in easy-to-use form. I know that Steven Schultz has access to a writer too (hint hint!). I will probably buy another hard disk here for the PDP archive, and give access to license holders. I'd like to get users to suggest layout changes & what should be exploded etc. so that we can burn a 650M CD image directly from the archive. Currently, the archive is sitting at 250M, so there's room to explode many of the distributions stored there. We also need to sit down and catalogue this stuff so that it's not just a collection of random tapes. I'm slowly doing this & have done the most important stuff, see the Tapes/DETAILS file if you ftp in. But more work needs to be done. So hopefully, we can pass the archive (as a Rock Ridge image) to a few volunteers to burn CD-R copies. Anybody in Europe who would volunteer? Just an idea! Warren Received: from henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA15039 for <oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>au>; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 12:42:48 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA04803; Sun, 31 Aug 1997 12:41:29 +1000 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Message-Id: <199708310241.MAA04803(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Re: PDP-11 Unix CD-ROM archive burn To: Kevin.Wright(a)VITREX.com (Kevin Wright) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 12:41:29 +1000 (EST) Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation) In-Reply-To: <B0620B9317B0D0119D3C0060976CE96418B8(a)nt-main.vitrex.com> from Kevin Wright at "Aug 29, 97 09:24:27 am" Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit In article by Kevin Wright: Kevin, until you can buy a license from SCO (soon I hope), all I can offer are the binaries for 6th & 7th Edition. If you have an RK05 or RL02, then you can get disk images as part of Bob Supnik's PDP-11 emulator, at ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/pub/PDP-11-sims/Supnik_2.3 (or a similar URL, I'm typing from memory). If you don't have RK05 or RL02s, someone should be able to build a suitable disk image for you. I think you'll need to go 6th Edition as you have a /23. Warren