18 Mar
2021
18 Mar
'21
9:44 a.m.
Micnet would seem to fall within my interest scope of Unix networking 1975-1985. I’ve seen
it mentioned before, but I don’t have a clear picture of what it was.
There is some sysadmin material on bitsavers about it, but no info on how it worked on the
inside or how it relates to other early networking.
At first glance it seems to be conceptually related to Berknet.
Does anybody here know the backstory to Micnet and/or how it worked?
Paul
18 Mar
18 Mar
11:27 a.m.
On 18 Mar 2021, at 10:44, Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS
<tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org> wrote:
Does anybody here know the backstory to Micnet and/or how it worked?
The Xenix communications manual has plenty of detail on how to set it up:
http://www.nj7p.org/Manuals/PDFs/Intel/174461-001.pdf
Looks as if it built a routed network among a set of Xenix machines using
conventional serial lines, including remote login / file transfer / mail
ervices. Would have been quite a big selling point for software development
shops in the days before TCP/IP and ubiquitous connectivity, especially as
it looks as if it was decentralised and didn’t require any extra server
hardware. MMDF could route mail between Micnet and UUCP.
Mike
12:04 p.m.
Yes, we used MMDF quite extensively until TCP/IP.
I remember paying $800 for a network card for a PC in the mid 90's.
Just this week, I discarded a box filled with old 10/100 cards.
From: "Mike Knell via TUHS" <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
To: "Paul Ruizendaal" <pnr(a)planet.nl>
Cc: "TUHS main list" <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2021 7:27:26 AM
Subject: Re: [TUHS] Micnet Was: Re: Surprised about Unix System V in the 80's - so
sparse!
On 18 Mar 2021, at 10:44, Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS
<tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org> wrote:
Does anybody here know the backstory to Micnet and/or how it worked?
The Xenix communications manual has plenty of detail on how to set it up:
http://www.nj7p.org/Manuals/PDFs/Intel/174461-001.pdf
Looks as if it built a routed network among a set of Xenix machines using
conventional serial lines, including remote login / file transfer / mail
ervices. Would have been quite a big selling point for software development
shops in the days before TCP/IP and ubiquitous connectivity, especially as
it looks as if it was decentralised and didn’t require any extra server
hardware. MMDF could route mail between Micnet and UUCP.
Mike
20 Mar
20 Mar
11:50 a.m.
On 2021 Mar 18, 12:27, Mike Knell via TUHS wrote:
This SCO technical article explains in detail how to set up Micnet
networking on SCO Unix.
https://www.scosales.com/ta/kb/103649.htmlOB
Amusingly, the article says "The System Administrator's Guide for older
versions of SCO UNIX System V/386 contained a section on the Micnet network,
but this is not present in the SCO UNIX System V Release 3.2 Version 4.0
documentation. The documentation for this network is provided here. Users
who wish to use this network system will require this documentation."
So it seems by the early 90's SCO was indeed phasing out the old Xenix
Micnet networking scheme.
Reading that article is interesting, and Micnet seems to have been a fragile
concoction. The article even says at the end: "You can only use mail to
transfer small files. Large files are randomly truncated by mail." Not the
most reassuring thing to read about the computer system you are using...
--
Josh Good
On 18 Mar 2021, at 10:44, Paul Ruizendaal via
TUHS <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org> wrote:
Does anybody here know the backstory to Micnet and/or how it worked?
The Xenix communications manual has plenty of detail on how to set it up:
http://www.nj7p.org/Manuals/PDFs/Intel/174461-001.pdf
Looks as if it built a routed network among a set of Xenix machines using
conventional serial lines, including remote login / file transfer / mail
ervices. 
3:16 p.m.
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 12:50:19PM +0100, Josh Good wrote:
I thought SCO had long since died. Did they open source it and is this
company providing support?
As fun as ancient Unix is, SCO was pretty sparse and not in a good way.
21 Mar
21 Mar
12:08 a.m.
It reads as if this company was a support company for SCO sites from
way back, and quietly carried on supporting SCO Unix sites when
Caldera blew a fuse and became The SCO Group and started some
unfathomably stupid lawsuits.
Wesley Parish
On 3/21/21, Larry McVoy <lm(a)mcvoy.com> wrote:
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 12:50:19PM +0100, Josh Good
wrote:
I thought SCO had long since died. Did they open source it and is this
company providing support?
As fun as ancient Unix is, SCO was pretty sparse and not in a good way.
12:18 a.m.
Yeah, but wouldn't that mean that SCO Unix had to be open sourced? Or did
they buy the rights?
While I mostly can't believe anyone would want SCO Unix, I do know that
they ran a lot of cash registers, or maybe they were the server, I dunno,
somehow point of sale and SCO was a thing a long time ago. So maybe it
is a legacy thing?
On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 01:08:55PM +1300, Wesley Parish wrote:
It reads as if this company was a support company for
SCO sites from
way back, and quietly carried on supporting SCO Unix sites when
Caldera blew a fuse and became The SCO Group and started some
unfathomably stupid lawsuits.
Wesley Parish
On 3/21/21, Larry McVoy <lm(a)mcvoy.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 12:50:19PM +0100, Josh Good wrote:
>> https://www.scosales.com/ta/kb/103649.htmlOB
>
> I thought SCO had long since died. Did they open source it and is this
> company providing support?
>
> As fun as ancient Unix is, SCO was pretty sparse and not in a good way.
>
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
1:12 a.m.
On Saturday, 20 March 2021 at 17:18:43 -0700, Larry McVoy wrote:
Yeah, but wouldn't that mean that SCO Unix had to
be open sourced?
Or did they buy the rights?
They didn't "open source" SCO, but in January 2002 they released
"ancient Unix" under a "BSD-style" license. See
http://www.lemis.com/grog/UNIX/
But I'm sure everybody knows that.
While I mostly can't believe anyone would want
SCO Unix, I do know that
they ran a lot of cash registers, or maybe they were the server, I dunno,
somehow point of sale and SCO was a thing a long time ago. So maybe it
is a legacy thing?
I haven't been following SCO recently, but at some point they had
taken UnixWare from Novell. I'm sure that, too, is common knowledge.
Greg
--
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1:31 a.m.
So this is just me, I'm not a fan of SCO even though I was the guy that
added TCP/IP to that OS.
SCO just felt like it was the back burner. Sun felt like it was the
front burner that was pushing things forward. SCO was the team that
said they had this and did nothing with it.
On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 12:12:17PM +1100, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
On Saturday, 20 March 2021 at 17:18:43 -0700, Larry
McVoy wrote:
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
Yeah, but wouldn't that mean that SCO Unix
had to be open sourced?
Or did they buy the rights?
They didn't "open source" SCO, but in January 2002 they released
"ancient Unix" under a "BSD-style" license. See
http://www.lemis.com/grog/UNIX/
But I'm sure everybody knows that.
While I mostly can't believe anyone would
want SCO Unix, I do know that
they ran a lot of cash registers, or maybe they were the server, I dunno,
somehow point of sale and SCO was a thing a long time ago. So maybe it
is a legacy thing?
I haven't been following SCO recently, but at some point they had
taken UnixWare from Novell. I'm sure that, too, is common knowledge.
Greg
--
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1:42 a.m.
SCO is still around in some form. I believe it’s mostly just a support
offering. They converged on two products in the ‘90s: OpenServer (SVR3)
and UnixWare (SVR4). It seems like most people preferred or were stuck on
OpenServer while UnixWare would have eventually been a nicer system but I
don’t know first hand. They also shipped a version of FreeBSD 10
commercially a handful of years ago.
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 6:32 PM Larry McVoy <lm(a)mcvoy.com> wrote:
So this is just me, I'm not a fan of SCO even
though I was the guy that
added TCP/IP to that OS.
SCO just felt like it was the back burner. Sun felt like it was the
front burner that was pushing things forward. SCO was the team that
said they had this and did nothing with it.
On Sun, Mar 21, 2021 at 12:12:17PM +1100, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
--
---
Larry McVoy lm at mcvoy.com
http://www.mcvoy.com/lm
On Saturday, 20 March 2021 at 17:18:43 -0700,
Larry McVoy wrote:
dunno,
Yeah, but wouldn't that mean that SCO Unix
had to be open sourced?
Or did they buy the rights?
They didn't "open source" SCO, but in January 2002 they released
"ancient Unix" under a "BSD-style" license. See
http://www.lemis.com/grog/UNIX/
But I'm sure everybody knows that.
> While I mostly can't believe anyone would want SCO Unix, I do know that
> they ran a lot of cash registers, or maybe they were the server, I somehow
point of sale and SCO was a thing a long time ago. So maybe it
is a legacy thing?
I haven't been following SCO recently, but at some point they had
taken UnixWare from Novell. I'm sure that, too, is common knowledge.
Greg
--
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2:38 a.m.
New subject: SCO marketing FreeBSD (was: Micnet, Was: Surprised about Unix System V in the 80's - so sparse!)
On Saturday, 20 March 2021 at 18:42:50 -0700, Kevin Bowling wrote:
SCO is still around in some form. ... They also
shipped a version
of FreeBSD 10 commercially a handful of years ago.
They did? Do you have details? From the version number it sounds as
if it must have been at a time when most people already thought they
were dead.
Greg
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2:43 a.m.
New subject: SCO marketing FreeBSD (was: Micnet, Was: Surprised about Unix System V in the 80's - so sparse!)
The Wikipedia article isn’t bad:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenServer
The only first hand info I can add is the money guy passed away a couple
years ago, which probably put things into limbo and I’m not sure who is at
the helm of Xinuos now. When I last talked to their engineering director
they had non-trivial revenue supporting the old products, enough to run
several product development engineers apart from whatever else it took to
keep the lights on.
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 7:38 PM Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
wrote:
On Saturday, 20 March 2021 at 18:42:50 -0700, Kevin
Bowling wrote:
SCO is still around in some form. ... They also
shipped a version
of FreeBSD 10 commercially a handful of years ago.
They did? Do you have details? From the version number it sounds as
if it must have been at a time when most people already thought they
were dead.
Greg
--
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3:02 a.m.
New subject: SCO marketing FreeBSD (was: Micnet, Was: Surprised about Unix System V in the 80's - so sparse!)
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 8:44 PM Kevin Bowling <kevin.bowling(a)kev009.com>
wrote:
The Wikipedia article isn’t bad:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenServer
The only first hand info I can add is the money guy passed away a couple
years ago, which probably put things into limbo and I’m not sure who is at
the helm of Xinuos now. When I last talked to their engineering director
they had non-trivial revenue supporting the old products, enough to run
several product development engineers apart from whatever else it took to
keep the lights on.
I'd love to hear more recent news...
Warner
Ps I sent off a message to the FreeBSD developer list to see any one there
knows. Hope I'm not stepping on any toes...
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021 at 7:38 PM Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
wrote:
On Saturday, 20 March 2021 at 18:42:50 -0700,
Kevin Bowling wrote:
SCO is still around in some form. ... They also
shipped a version
of FreeBSD 10 commercially a handful of years ago.
They did? Do you have details? From the version number it sounds as
if it must have been at a time when most people already thought they
were dead.
Greg
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3:04 a.m.
New subject: SCO marketing FreeBSD (was: Micnet, Was: Surprised about Unix System V in the 80's - so sparse!)
On Saturday, 20 March 2021 at 21:02:35 -0600, Warner Losh wrote:
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 8:44 PM Kevin Bowling
<kevin.bowling(a)kev009.com>
wrote:
So would I. I wonder if they're still basing on FreeBSD 10.
The Wikipedia article isn???t bad:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenServer
The only first hand info I can add is the money guy passed away a couple
years ago, which probably put things into limbo and I???m not sure who is at
the helm of Xinuos now. When I last talked to their engineering director
they had non-trivial revenue supporting the old products, enough to run
several product development engineers apart from whatever else it took to
keep the lights on.
I'd love to hear more recent news... Ps I sent off a message to the FreeBSD developer list
to see any one
there knows. Hope I'm not stepping on any toes...
You didn't exactly mention your sources. Looks fine to me.
Greg
--
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3:09 a.m.
New subject: SCO marketing FreeBSD (was: Micnet, Was: Surprised about Unix System V in the 80's - so sparse!)
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 9:04 PM Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> wrote:
On Saturday, 20 March 2021 at 21:02:35 -0600, Warner
Losh wrote:
So would I. I wonder if they're still basing on FreeBSD 10.
True. I couldn't recall if Kevin has a commit bit still or not.... if need
be, I'll send a follow up...
Warner
Greg
On Sat, Mar 20, 2021, 8:44 PM Kevin Bowling
<kevin.bowling(a)kev009.com>
wrote:
> The Wikipedia article isn???t bad:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenServer
>
> The only first hand info I can add is the money guy passed away a couple
> years ago, which probably put things into limbo and I???m not sure who
is at
> the helm of Xinuos now. When I last talked
to their engineering
director
> they had non-trivial revenue supporting the
old products, enough to run
> several product development engineers apart from whatever else it took
to
keep the
lights on.
I'd love to hear more recent news... Ps I sent off a message to the FreeBSD developer
list to see any one
there knows. Hope I'm not stepping on any toes...
You didn't exactly mention your sources. Looks fine to me.
--
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6:53 a.m.
New subject: SCO marketing FreeBSD (was: Micnet, Was: Surprised about Unix System V in the 80's - so sparse!)
On Sun, 21 Mar 2021, Greg 'groggy' Lehey wrote:
Well, I'm still on 10:
FreeBSD aneurin.horsfall.org 10.4-RELEASE-p13 FreeBSD 10.4-RELEASE-p13 #0: Thu Sep 27
09:21:23 UTC 2018 root@amd64-builder.daemonology.net:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC
i386
Just not enough hours in the day when one is retired... I have a spare
(and faster) box waiting for RELEASE once I get a round tuit, based upon
my experiences with partition sizes[*] with the old box (I refuse to sling
everything under "/").
[*]
Dreadful things happen if /tmp is "tmpfs", /tmp fills up with a massive
compilation, and swap was too small...
-- Dave
I'd love
to hear more recent news...
So would I. I wonder if they're still basing on FreeBSD 10. 
11:01 a.m.
New subject: SCO marketing FreeBSD (was: Micnet, Was: Surprised about Unix System V in the 80's - so sparse!)
Greg 'groggy' Lehey [21.03.2021 03:38]:
On Saturday, 20 March 2021 at 18:42:50 -0700, Kevin
Bowling wrote:
The time here is B.C. (Before Coffee), so I had shaky fingers and sent
it only to Greg, not the list. Anyway:
<https://www.xinuos.com/products/openserver-10/>
--
Hilsen Harald
SCO is still around in some form. ... They also
shipped a version
of FreeBSD 10 commercially a handful of years ago.
They did? Do you have details? From the version number it sounds as
if it must have been at a time when most people already thought they
were dead.
Greg
1125
days inactive
1128
days old
16 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Dave Horsfall -
Greg 'groggy' Lehey -
Harald Arnesen -
Jim Capp -
Josh Good -
Kevin Bowling -
Larry McVoy -
Mike Knell -
Paul Ruizendaal -
Warner Losh -
Wesley Parish