11 Mar
2021
11 Mar
'21
5:13 p.m.
Hi,
I'm not sure where this message best fits; TUHS, COFF, or Internet
History, so please forgive me if this list is not the best location.
I'm discussing the hosts file with someone and was wondering if there's
any historical documentation around it's format and what should and
should not be entered in the file.
I've read the current man page on Gentoo Linux, but suspect that it's
far from authoritative. I'm hoping that someone can point me to
something more authoritative to the hosts file's format, guidelines
around entering data, and how it's supposed to function.
A couple of sticking points in the other discussion revolve around how
many entries a host is supposed to have in the hosts file and any
ramifications for having a host appear as an alias on multiple lines /
entries. To whit, how correct / incorrect is the following:
192.0.2.1 host.example.net host
127.0.0.1 localhost host.example.net host
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
11 Mar
11 Mar
5:29 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
Grant Taylor wrote in
<02d10a8e-2f39-4f88-f4c9-ecb295e0f01e(a)spamtrap.tnetconsulting.net>et>:
|Hi,
|
|I'm not sure where this message best fits; TUHS, COFF, or Internet
|History, so please forgive me if this list is not the best location.
|
|I'm discussing the hosts file with someone and was wondering if there's
|any historical documentation around it's format and what should and
|should not be entered in the file.
|
|I've read the current man page on Gentoo Linux, but suspect that it's
|far from authoritative. I'm hoping that someone can point me to
|something more authoritative to the hosts file's format, guidelines
|around entering data, and how it's supposed to function.
|
|A couple of sticking points in the other discussion revolve around how
|many entries a host is supposed to have in the hosts file and any
|ramifications for having a host appear as an alias on multiple lines /
|entries. To whit, how correct / incorrect is the following:
|
|192.0.2.1 host.example.net host
|127.0.0.1 localhost host.example.net host
Address, "official name", aliases.
And as many as you want i'd say. It is just that an alias might
be hidden and never be found (if actually hidden). This is at
least how i interpreted it.
--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)
5:40 p.m.
From https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)
For each host a single line should be present with the following information:
Internet address
official host name
aliases
HISTORY
The hosts file format appeared in 4.2BSD.
On Mar 11, 2021, at 9:14 AM, Grant Taylor via TUHS
<tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org> wrote:
Hi,
I'm not sure where this message best fits; TUHS, COFF, or Internet History, so
please forgive me if this list is not the best location.
I'm discussing the hosts file with someone and was wondering if there's any
historical documentation around it's format and what should and should not be entered
in the file.
I've read the current man page on Gentoo Linux, but suspect that it's far from
authoritative. I'm hoping that someone can point me to something more authoritative
to the hosts file's format, guidelines around entering data, and how it's
supposed to function.
A couple of sticking points in the other discussion revolve around how many entries a
host is supposed to have in the hosts file and any ramifications for having a host appear
as an alias on multiple lines / entries. To whit, how correct / incorrect is the
following:
192.0.2.1 host.example.net host
127.0.0.1 localhost host.example.net host
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
6:08 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 10:40 AM Bakul Shah <bakul(a)iitbombay.org> wrote:
From https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)
For each host a single line should be present with the following information:
Internet address
official host name
aliases
*HISTORY* <https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)#end>
The *hosts* file format appeared in 4.2BSD.
While this is true wrt the history of FreeBSD/Unix, I'm almost positive
that BSD didn't invent it. I'm pretty sure it was picked up from the
existing host file that was published by sri-nic.arpa before DNS.
Warner
On Mar 11, 2021, at 9:14 AM, Grant Taylor via TUHS
<tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
wrote:
Hi,
I'm not sure where this message best fits; TUHS, COFF, or Internet
History, so please forgive me if this list is not the best location.
I'm discussing the hosts file with someone and was wondering if there's
any historical documentation around it's format and what should and should
not be entered in the file.
I've read the current man page on Gentoo Linux, but suspect that it's far
from authoritative. I'm hoping that someone can point me to something more
authoritative to the hosts file's format, guidelines around entering data,
and how it's supposed to function.
A couple of sticking points in the other discussion revolve around how
many entries a host is supposed to have in the hosts file and any
ramifications for having a host appear as an alias on multiple lines /
entries. To whit, how correct / incorrect is the following:
192.0.2.1 host.example.net host
127.0.0.1 localhost host.example.net host
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
_______________________________________________
COFF mailing list
COFF(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff
6:12 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
The SRI file was different format. There was a tool that fetched and
converted from the PDP-10 scheme to the UNIX scheme - gethtable(8) or
something like that.
ᐧ
ᐧ
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 1:08 PM Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 10:40 AM Bakul Shah <bakul(a)iitbombay.org> wrote:
From
https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)
For each host a single line should be present with the following information:
Internet address
official host name
aliases
*HISTORY* <https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)#end>
The *hosts* file format appeared in 4.2BSD.
While this is true wrt the history of FreeBSD/Unix, I'm almost positive
that BSD didn't invent it. I'm pretty sure it was picked up from the
existing host file that was published by sri-nic.arpa before DNS.
Warner
On Mar 11, 2021, at 9:14 AM, Grant Taylor via
TUHS <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
wrote:
Hi,
I'm not sure where this message best fits; TUHS, COFF, or Internet
History, so please forgive me if this list is not the best location.
I'm discussing the hosts file with someone and was wondering if there's
any historical documentation around it's format and what should and should
not be entered in the file.
I've read the current man page on Gentoo Linux, but suspect that it's far
from authoritative. I'm hoping that someone can point me to something more
authoritative to the hosts file's format, guidelines around entering data,
and how it's supposed to function.
A couple of sticking points in the other discussion revolve around how
many entries a host is supposed to have in the hosts file and any
ramifications for having a host appear as an alias on multiple lines /
entries. To whit, how correct / incorrect is the following:
192.0.2.1 host.example.net host
127.0.0.1 localhost host.example.net host
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
_______________________________________________
COFF mailing list
COFF(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff
6:21 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
The "new" host table format is described in RFC 810
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc810 <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc810>
(mentions UNIX) but it goes back to RFC 608 (1974) or so.
jaap
On Mar 11, 2021, at 19:12, Clem Cole
<clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
The SRI file was different format. There was a tool that fetched and converted from the
PDP-10 scheme to the UNIX scheme - gethtable(8) or something like that.
ᐧ
ᐧ
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 1:08 PM Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com
<mailto:imp@bsdimp.com>> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 10:40 AM Bakul Shah <bakul(a)iitbombay.org
<mailto:bakul@iitbombay.org>> wrote:
From https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)
<https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)>
For each host a single line should be present with the following information:
Internet address
official host name
aliases
HISTORY <https://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi?hosts(5)#end>
The hosts file format appeared in 4.2BSD.
While this is true wrt the history of FreeBSD/Unix, I'm almost positive that BSD
didn't invent it. I'm pretty sure it was picked up from the existing host file
that was published by sri-nic.arpa before DNS.
Warner
On Mar 11, 2021, at 9:14 AM, Grant Taylor via
TUHS <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org <mailto:tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>> wrote:
Hi,
I'm not sure where this message best fits; TUHS, COFF, or Internet History, so
please forgive me if this list is not the best location.
I'm discussing the hosts file with someone and was wondering if there's any
historical documentation around it's format and what should and should not be entered
in the file.
I've read the current man page on Gentoo Linux, but suspect that it's far from
authoritative. I'm hoping that someone can point me to something more authoritative
to the hosts file's format, guidelines around entering data, and how it's
supposed to function.
A couple of sticking points in the other discussion revolve around how many entries a
host is supposed to have in the hosts file and any ramifications for having a host appear
as an alias on multiple lines / entries. To whit, how correct / incorrect is the
following:
192.0.2.1 host.example.net <http://host.example.net/> host
127.0.0.1 localhost host.example.net <http://host.example.net/> host
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
_______________________________________________
COFF mailing list
COFF(a)minnie.tuhs.org <mailto:COFF@minnie.tuhs.org>
https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff
<https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff> 
6:21 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
The hosts file format definition appears in
RFC 752: Universal host table
RFC 810: DoD Internet host table specification
RFC 952: DoD Internet host table specification
A 1986 hosts.txt file in my PDP-10 archives notes:
; The format for entries is:
;
; NET : NET-ADDR : NETNAME :
; GATEWAY : ADDR, ADDR : NAME : CPUTYPE : OPSYS : PROTOCOLS :
; HOST : ADDR, ALTERNATE-ADDR (if any): HOSTNAME,NICKNAME : CPUTYPE :
; OPSYS : PROTOCOLS :
;
; Where:
;; ADDR = internet address in decimal, e.g., 26.0.0.73
;; CPUTYPE = machine type (PDP-11/70, VAX-11/780, FOONLY-F3, C/30, etc.)
;; OPSYS = operating system (UNIX, TOPS20, TENEX, ITS, etc.)
;; PROTOCOLS = transport/service (TCP/TELNET,TCP/FTP, etc.)
;; : (colon) = field delimiter
;; :: (2 colons) = null field
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Nelson H. F. Beebe Tel: +1 801 581 5254 -
- University of Utah FAX: +1 801 581 4148 -
- Department of Mathematics, 110 LCB Internet e-mail: beebe(a)math.utah.edu -
- 155 S 1400 E RM 233 beebe(a)acm.org beebe(a)computer.org -
- Salt Lake City, UT 84112-0090, USA URL: http://www.math.utah.edu/~beebe/ -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8:05 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
"Nelson H. F. Beebe" <beebe(a)math.utah.edu> wrote:
The hosts file format definition appears in
RFC 752: Universal host table
RFC 810: DoD Internet host table specification
RFC 952: DoD Internet host table specification
A 1986 hosts.txt file in my PDP-10 archives notes:
The earliest copy of the hosts file I could find was
http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tops20_v6_1_tcpip_installation_tp_ft6/06/ne…
;GIDNEY::<PAETZOLD.ARPANET>HOSTS.TXT.5, 27-Mar-85 13:11:54, Edit by PAETZOLD
;GIDNEY::<PAETZOLD.ARPANET>HOSTS.TXT.4, 25-Mar-85 13:56:55, Edit by PAETZOLD
;local stuff
; DoD Internet Host Table
; 22-Mar-85
; Version number 436
Does anybody have an earlier copy?
-Jan
8:30 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021, 15:12 Jan Schaumann <jschauma(a)netmeister.org> wrote:
"Nelson H. F. Beebe"
<beebe(a)math.utah.edu> wrote:
This was in the first page of Google search results for "DoD Internet Host
Table"; I bet with a little more research I could come up with something
much older. Or one of the PDP-10 folks will find the original...
https://emaillab.jp/dns/hosts/
-Henry
The hosts file format definition appears in
RFC 752: Universal host table
RFC 810: DoD Internet host table specification
RFC 952: DoD Internet host table specification
A 1986 hosts.txt file in my PDP-10 archives notes:
The earliest copy of the hosts file I could find was
http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tops20_v6_1_tcpip_installation_tp_ft6/06/ne…
;GIDNEY::<PAETZOLD.ARPANET>HOSTS.TXT.5, 27-Mar-85 13:11:54, Edit by
PAETZOLD
;GIDNEY::<PAETZOLD.ARPANET>HOSTS.TXT.4, 25-Mar-85 13:56:55, Edit by
PAETZOLD
;local stuff
; DoD Internet Host Table
; 22-Mar-85
; Version number 436
Does anybody have an earlier copy?
-Jan
8:42 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 15:30, Henry Bent <henry.r.bent(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021, 15:12 Jan Schaumann
<jschauma(a)netmeister.org> wrote:
Perhaps a more interesting question, and one which I cannot quickly answer
(nor am I going to go pinging huge swaths of the public internet), is are
there any hosts in any version of HOSTS.TXT that are still on the public
internet in the same location? Or - and perhaps there is an easy answer to
this that I do not know - is there a repository of old WHOIS databases? I
remember being stymied ~20 years ago that Ultrix had SRI-NIC.ARPA hardcoded
in the whois binary and I couldn't find a hostname of the correct length
with which to replace it...
-Henry
"Nelson H. F. Beebe"
<beebe(a)math.utah.edu> wrote:
This was in the first page of Google search results for "DoD Internet Host
Table"; I bet with a little more research I could come up with something
much older. Or one of the PDP-10 folks will find the original...
https://emaillab.jp/dns/hosts/
-Henry
The hosts file format definition appears in
RFC 752: Universal host table
RFC 810: DoD Internet host table specification
RFC 952: DoD Internet host table specification
A 1986 hosts.txt file in my PDP-10 archives notes:
The earliest copy of the hosts file I could find was
http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tops20_v6_1_tcpip_installation_tp_ft6/06/ne…
;GIDNEY::<PAETZOLD.ARPANET>HOSTS.TXT.5, 27-Mar-85 13:11:54, Edit by
PAETZOLD
;GIDNEY::<PAETZOLD.ARPANET>HOSTS.TXT.4, 25-Mar-85 13:56:55, Edit by
PAETZOLD
;local stuff
; DoD Internet Host Table
; 22-Mar-85
; Version number 436
Does anybody have an earlier copy?
-Jan
9:20 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
Perhaps a more interesting question, and one which I
cannot quickly answer
(nor am I going to go pinging huge swaths of the public internet), is are
there any hosts in any version of HOSTS.TXT that are still on the public
internet in the same location? Or - and perhaps there is an easy answer to
this that I do not know - is there a repository of old WHOIS databases? I
remember being stymied ~20 years ago that Ultrix had SRI-NIC.ARPA hardcoded
in the whois binary and I couldn't find a hostname of the correct length
with which to replace it...
-Henry
A quick flash of inspiration revealed a partial answer to this.
tick.usno.navy.mil and tock.usno.navy.mil have been 192.5.41.40 and
192.5.41.41 since 1994:
https://groups.google.com/g/news.test/c/VGw06jeo2Zk/m/1oi8rsKVxrQJ . I've
been relying on these for almost as long as they've been online.
Unfortunately they do not show up in the 1995 HOSTS.TXT file.
-Henry
11:46 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
Perhaps a more interesting question, and one which I
cannot quickly answer
(nor am I going to go pinging huge swaths of the public internet), is are
there any hosts in any version of HOSTS.TXT that are still on the public
internet in the same location?
Hard to answer the question. Same physical location? Same hardware?
mit-prep.arpa is prep.ai.mit.edu which is a CNAME to ftp.gnu.org Theseus's
ship?
12 Mar
12 Mar
1:15 a.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
(I re-added Internet History list to my response here ...)
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021, Henry Bent wrote:
Perhaps a more interesting question, and one which I
cannot quickly answer
(nor am I going to go pinging huge swaths of the public internet), is are
there any hosts in any version of HOSTS.TXT that are still on the public
internet in the same location? Or - and perhaps there is an easy answer to
this that I do not know - is there a repository of old WHOIS databases? I
remember being stymied ~20 years ago that Ultrix had SRI-NIC.ARPA hardcoded
in the whois binary and I couldn't find a hostname of the correct length
with which to replace it...
Using 1988 SRI-NIC host table
https://github.com/ttkzw/hosts.txt/blob/master/pub/hosts/19881208/HOSTS.TXT
I don't know if at same location, but some relationship and even some
same or close names:
CS.WISC.EDU 128.105.2.6
128.135.0.0 u-chicago.uchicago.edu.
uvaarpa.virginia.edu. uvaarpa-old.virginia.edu. 128.143.2.7
jellicoe.cs.ucl.ac.uk. 128.16.3.1
honda.cs.columbia.edu. 128.59.16.16
cesd-gw.ai.sri.com. 192.12.33.1
ns0.llnl.gov. 192.12.17.1
umbc-net.umbc.edu. 130.85.0.0
net.queensu.ca. 130.15.0.0
ns.indiana.edu. 129.79.1.1
oswego-net.oswego.edu. 129.3.0.0
dorm-net0.stanford.edu. 128.12.0.0
nas-net.nas.nasa.gov. 129.99.0.0
Several others at same organizations or descendants. A lot are under
xip.io.
3:27 a.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
Funny story about /etc/hosts. and HOSTS.TXT. It was SRI NIC or NIC
DDN/MIL's job to maintain and distribute. Centrex model to keep the
numbers up, and hostnames aligned. We did shell ftp fetches and local
distribution. Yellow pages was a godsend in mant ways, the operations
duty cycle to keep this stuff up to date was a bit of a PITA.
Enter yourself in HOSTS.TXT. It was sorted. Often, Alpha. So people
like BBN were up top. People like MIT were midway. UCL-CS was down
low. Oh well. Good thing we don't do linear lookup.. Or it was sorted
by IP. But, somehow no matter what sort, we were down the back. Some
things basically seemed to to linear. And, as the host count rose, be
it sorted by IP or sorted by name, hosts in UCL-CS seemed to be
"bottom" for finding. Bottom in time sense.
So: you try to telnet to a US node, (or FTP) -and it dies. BBN
butterfly has LRUd you out. You get that fixed. That takes time too.
Hopefully less often. Shame BBN was on a fixed price fixed term
contract and the EGP (pre BGP) was not patchable. Things come back
eventually.
You try to telnet to a node again. You get connected. Long pause. you
get login: prompt. Long pause. You start typing login.. it drops link.
Getty/login had a 30 second timer. We were sitting on 29-31 seconds
lookup delay to resolve the client IP, to assert the login prompt.
Sucked to be us.
-G
11 Mar
11 Mar
8:44 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
Jan Schaumann wrote:
The earliest copy of the hosts file I could find was
http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tops20_v6_1_tcpip_installation_tp_ft6/06/ne…
; 22-Mar-85
Does anybody have an earlier copy?
MIT and Stanford PDP-10 archives have various HOSTS files going back to
the mid 1970s.
9:05 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 16:02, Lars Brinkhoff <lars(a)nocrew.org> wrote:
Jan Schaumann wrote:
Links? I have not the slightest idea where to start looking for those
archives, nor would I know where to look on the filesystem even if I did
find them.
-Henry
The earliest copy of the hosts file I could find
was
http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/tops20_v6_1_tcpip_installation_tp_ft6/06/ne…
; 22-Mar-85
Does anybody have an earlier copy?
MIT and Stanford PDP-10 archives have various HOSTS files going back to
the mid 1970s.
12 Mar
12 Mar
5:53 a.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
Henry Bent wrote:
MIT and Stanford PDP-10 archives have various HOSTS
files going back
to the mid 1970s.
Links? I have not the slightest idea where to start looking for those
archives
Hopefully they will be more accessible in the future. For now, here's a
link to the oldest 1977 copy of HOSTS.TXT in Mark Cripin's directory on
the SAIL PDP-10:
https://www.saildart.org/HOSTS.TXT[NET,MRC]1
11 Mar
11 Mar
9:12 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
Ah, that brings back memories. It was after we got our own "private"
imps at BRL.
The BRL hosts of the day had the name BRL-XNNN where the X was the name
of the division
V - Vulnerability/Lethality Division
S - Systems Engineering and Concepts Analysis Division
T - Terminal Ballistics Division
I - Interior Ballistics Division
L - Launch and Flight Division.
B appears becvaues SECAD was the Ballistic Modelling Division earlier.
Mike wanted to callel BRL-SEM (the SECAD Experimental Machine) BRL-SEX
originally.
Jake Fienler at the NIC refused to accept it.
10:33 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021, Jan Schaumann wrote:
; DoD Internet Host Table
; 22-Mar-85
; Version number 436
Does anybody have an earlier copy?
See the collection at
https://github.com/ttkzw/hosts.txt/
(but not all are in the same format)
6:27 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
On Thu, 11 Mar 2021 at 13:14, Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
The SRI file was different format. There was a tool
that fetched and
converted from the PDP-10 scheme to the UNIX scheme - gethtable(8) or
something like that.
ᐧ
ᐧ
gettable(8) and htable(8):
GETTABLE(8C)
GETTABLE(8C)
NAME
gettable - get NIC format host tables from a host
SYNOPSIS
/etc/gettable host
DESCRIPTION
Gettable is a simple program used to obtain the NIC standard host
tables from a ``nicname'' server. The indicated host is queried for the
tables.
The tables, if retrieved, are placed in the file hosts.txt.
Gettable operates by opening a TCP connection to the port indicated
in the service specification for ``nicname''. A request is then made
for
``ALL'' names and the resultant information is placed in the output
file.
Gettable is best used in conjunction with the htable(8) program
which converts the NIC standard file format to that used by the network
library
lookup routines.
SEE ALSO
intro(3N), htable(8)
BUGS
Should allow requests for only part of the database.
4th Berkeley Distribution 4
March 1983
GETTABLE(8C)
HTABLE(8) System Manager's Manual
HTABLE(8)
NAME
htable - convert NIC standard format host tables
SYNOPSIS
/etc/htable file
DESCRIPTION
Htable is used to convert host files in the format specified in
Inter-
net RFC 810 to the format used by the network library routines.
Three
files are created as a result of running htable: hosts, networks,
and
gateways. The hosts file is used by the gethostent(3N) routines
in
mapping host names to addresses. The networks file is used by the
get-
netent(3N) routines in mapping network names to numbers. The
gateways
file is used by the routing daemon in identifying ``passive''
Internet
gateways; see routed(8C) for an explanation.
If any of the files localhosts, localnetworks, or localgateways
are
present in the current directory, the file's contents is prepended
to
the output file without interpretation. This allows sites to
maintain
local aliases and entries which are not normally present in the
master
database.
Htable is best used in conjunction with the gettable(8C) program
which
retrieves the NIC database from a host.
SEE ALSO
intro(3N), gettable(8C)
BUGS
Does not properly calculate the gateways file.
4th Berkeley Distribution 4 March 1983
HTABLE(8)
-Henry
6:18 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
While this is true wrt the history of FreeBSD/Unix, I'm almost positive
that BSD didn't invent it. I'm pretty sure
it was picked up from the
existing host file that was published by sri-nic.arpa before DNS.
Warner
The CSRG history doesn't seem to have saved the full SCCS history of the
hosts manpage, but it must have appeared sometime around the addition of
ARP support to 4.1BSD - it's not in the 4.1C sources without ARP, but it is
in the sources with it. That version does indeed mention its origins:
HOSTS(5) File Formats Manual
HOSTS(5)
NAME
hosts - host name data base
DESCRIPTION
The hosts file contains information regarding the known hosts on
the
DARPA Internet. For each host a single line should be present with
the
following information:
official host name
Internet address
aliases
Items are separated by any number of blanks and/or tab characters.
A
``#'' indicates the beginning of a comment; characters up to the end
of
the line are not interpreted by routines which search the file.
This
file is normally created from the official host data base maintained
at
the Network Information Control Center (NIC), though local changes
may
be required to bring it up to date regarding unofficial aliases
and/or
unknown hosts.
Network addresses are specified in the conventional ``.'' notation
us-
ing the inet_addr() routine from the Internet address manipulation
li-
brary, inet(3). Host names may contain any printable character
other
than a field delimiter, newline, or comment character.
FILES
/etc/hosts
SEE ALSO
gethostent(3N)
BUGS
A name server should be used instead of a static file. A binary
in-
dexed file format should be available for fast access.
15 January 1983
HOSTS(5)
-Henry
6:02 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
Grant, are you asking about a multi-homed host?
IIRC the original BSD code did the first hit and stop, when looking
something up. What we sometimes did was give the host an alias : host-en
for the ethernet and host-pro proteon HW. Host would be on both lines, so
you wanted to make the first 'host' to be the default.
ᐧ
On Thu, Mar 11, 2021 at 12:13 PM Grant Taylor via COFF <coff(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
wrote:
Hi,
I'm not sure where this message best fits; TUHS, COFF, or Internet
History, so please forgive me if this list is not the best location.
I'm discussing the hosts file with someone and was wondering if there's
any historical documentation around it's format and what should and
should not be entered in the file.
I've read the current man page on Gentoo Linux, but suspect that it's
far from authoritative. I'm hoping that someone can point me to
something more authoritative to the hosts file's format, guidelines
around entering data, and how it's supposed to function.
A couple of sticking points in the other discussion revolve around how
many entries a host is supposed to have in the hosts file and any
ramifications for having a host appear as an alias on multiple lines /
entries. To whit, how correct / incorrect is the following:
192.0.2.1 host.example.net host
127.0.0.1 localhost host.example.net host
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
_______________________________________________
COFF mailing list
COFF(a)minnie.tuhs.org
https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/coff
8:32 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
Which hosts table? The Berkeley one or the REAL internet one?
The Berkeley one (which I think may predate the IP implementation) is
the one that we know as /etc/hosts that has the address then the namees
of the hosts.
The "real" one is the one the NIC put out in the pre-domain days.
It's defined in RFC 952, looks like
HOST : 10.0.0.29 : BRL.ARPA, BRL : PDP-11/70 : UNIX : TCP :
There was also a simple TCP service that would serve up the file.
I detested the Berkeley one and we always downloaded and used the NIC
table on our machines. I rewrote "rhost" and it's successors
(gethostbyname, etc...) to read directly from the NIC format.
Amusingly one day we got an Imagen ethernet-connected laser printer.
Mike Muuss decided the thing should be named BRL-ZAP and since I didn't
know what to put down as the machine type, and it did have a 68000 in
it, I had Jake put 68000 in the entry in the host table.
The next day I got all kinds of hate mail from other BSD sites who
assumed I had intentionally sabotaged the host table. Apparently, the
BSD systems used a YACC grammar to parse the NIC table into the Berkeley
one. The only problem is they got the grammar wrong and assumed the
CPU type always began with a letter. There parse blew up on my "ZAP"
host and they assumed that was the desired effect.
I countered back that using a YACC grammar for this was rediculous.
There was already a real popular file on UNIX that had a bunch of fields
separated by colons and commas (/etc/passwd anybody) that it was never
necessary to use YACC to parse.
-Ron
9:02 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
On Mar 11, 2021, at 12:32 PM, Ron Natalie <ron(a)ronnatalie.com> wrote:
Amusingly one day we got an Imagen ethernet-connected laser printer. Mike Muuss
decided the thing should be named BRL-ZAP and since I didn't know what to put down as
the machine type, and it did have a 68000 in it, I had Jake put 68000 in the entry in the
host table.
The next day I got all kinds of hate mail from other BSD sites who assumed I had
intentionally sabotaged the host table. Apparently, the BSD systems used a YACC grammar
to parse the NIC table into the Berkeley one. The only problem is they got the grammar
wrong and assumed the CPU type always began with a letter. There parse blew up on my
"ZAP" host and they assumed that was the desired effect.
This is understandable as
a) All the "official machine names" in various assigned numbers RFCs start with
a letter.
b) the BNF syntax for the "host table specification" entries in RFC 952 or 810
are not precise enough.
<cputype> ::= PDP-11/70 | DEC-1080 | C/30 | CDC-6400...etc.
NOTE: See "Assigned Numbers" for specific options and acronyms
for machine types, operating systems, and protocol/services.
for machine types, operating systems, and protocol/services.
c) 68000 was not an official name!
:-) :-) :-)
I countered back that using a YACC grammar for this
was rediculous. There was already a real popular file on UNIX that had a bunch of fields
separated by colons and commas (/etc/passwd anybody) that it was never necessary to use
YACC to parse.
Can't argue with that! Though that doesn't mean a handwritten parser
wouldn't have complained about 68000.
9:08 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
The "name" in this context the host/network/gateway name such as
SRI-NIC.ARPA. 3COM.COM would not have been legal back then.
Nowhere does it imply that any of the other fields are so restricted.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Bakul Shah" <bakul(a)iitbombay.org>
To: "Ron Natalie" <ron(a)ronnatalie.com>
Cc: "The Unix Heritage Society" <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>rg>; "Internet
History" <internet-history(a)postel.org>
Sent: 3/11/2021 4:02:50 PM
Subject: Re: [TUHS] [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
On Mar 11, 2021, at 12:32 PM, Ron Natalie
<ron(a)ronnatalie.com> wrote:
Amusingly one day we got an Imagen ethernet-connected laser printer.
Mike Muuss decided the thing should be named BRL-ZAP and since I
didn't know what to put down as the machine type, and it did have a
68000 in it, I had Jake put 68000 in the entry in the host table.
The next day I got all kinds of hate mail from other BSD sites who
assumed I had intentionally sabotaged the host table. Apparently,
the BSD systems used a YACC grammar to parse the NIC table into the
Berkeley one. The only problem is they got the grammar wrong and
assumed the CPU type always began with a letter. There parse blew
up on my "ZAP" host and they assumed that was the desired effect.
This is understandable as
a) All the "official machine names" in various assigned numbers RFCs
start with a letter.
b) the BNF syntax for the "host table specification" entries in RFC 952
or 810 are not precise enough.
<cputype> ::= PDP-11/70 | DEC-1080 | C/30 |
CDC-6400...etc.
NOTE: See "Assigned Numbers" for specific options and acronyms
for machine types, operating systems, and protocol/services.
for machine types, operating systems, and protocol/services.
c) 68000 was not an official name!
:-) :-) :-)
I countered back that using a YACC grammar for
this was rediculous.
There was already a real popular file on UNIX that had a bunch of
fields separated by colons and commas (/etc/passwd anybody) that it
was never necessary to use YACC to parse.
Can't argue with that! Though that doesn't mean a handwritten parser
wouldn't have complained about 68000.
9:15 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
As I quoted, the RFC says to refer to the assigned numbers RFC for specific options and
acronyms for machine types, operating systems, and protocol/services. A
host/network/gateway name has no such restriction.
On Mar 11, 2021, at 1:08 PM, Ron Natalie
<ron(a)ronnatalie.com> wrote:
The "name" in this context the host/network/gateway name such as SRI-NIC.ARPA.
3COM.COM <http://3com.com/> would not have been legal back then.
Nowhere does it imply that any of the other fields are so restricted.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Bakul Shah" <bakul(a)iitbombay.org
<mailto:bakul@iitbombay.org>>
To: "Ron Natalie" <ron(a)ronnatalie.com <mailto:ron@ronnatalie.com>>
Cc: "The Unix Heritage Society" <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
<mailto:tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>>; "Internet History"
<internet-history(a)postel.org <mailto:internet-history@postel.org>>
Sent: 3/11/2021 4:02:50 PM
Subject: Re: [TUHS] [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
> On Mar 11, 2021, at 12:32 PM, Ron Natalie <ron(a)ronnatalie.com
<mailto:ron@ronnatalie.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Amusingly one day we got an Imagen ethernet-connected laser printer. Mike
Muuss decided the thing should be named BRL-ZAP and since I didn't know what to put
down as the machine type, and it did have a 68000 in it, I had Jake put 68000 in the entry
in the host table.
>>
>> The next day I got all kinds of hate mail from other BSD sites who assumed I had
intentionally sabotaged the host table. Apparently, the BSD systems used a YACC grammar
to parse the NIC table into the Berkeley one. The only problem is they got the grammar
wrong and assumed the CPU type always began with a letter. There parse blew up on my
"ZAP" host and they assumed that was the desired effect.
>
> This is understandable as
> a) All the "official machine names" in various assigned numbers RFCs start
with a letter.
> b) the BNF syntax for the "host table specification" entries in RFC 952 or
810 are not precise enough.
> <cputype> ::= PDP-11/70 | DEC-1080 | C/30 | CDC-6400...etc.
>
> NOTE: See "Assigned Numbers" for specific options and acronyms
> for machine types, operating systems, and protocol/services.
> for machine types, operating systems, and protocol/services.
> c) 68000 was not an official name!
> :-) :-) :-)
>
>> I countered back that using a YACC grammar for this was rediculous. There was
already a real popular file on UNIX that had a bunch of fields separated by colons and
commas (/etc/passwd anybody) that it was never necessary to use YACC to parse.
>
> Can't argue with that! Though that doesn't mean a handwritten parser
wouldn't have complained about 68000.
12 Mar
12 Mar
1:14 a.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
3com.com was indeed illegal initially. We (the UUCP Zone) went to
register it with the NIC and were told leading zeros weren't allowed,
because some code might think a leading digit meant an IP address. I
pushed back, they relented, and it was registered without a problem.
On 3/11/21 1:08 PM, Ron Natalie wrote:
The "name" in this context the
host/network/gateway name such as
SRI-NIC.ARPA. 3COM.COM would not have been legal back then.
Nowhere does it imply that any of the other fields are so restricted.
------ Original Message ------
From: "Bakul Shah" <bakul(a)iitbombay.org
<mailto:bakul@iitbombay.org>>
To: "Ron Natalie" <ron(a)ronnatalie.com <mailto:ron@ronnatalie.com>>
Cc: "The Unix Heritage Society" <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
<mailto:tuhs@minnie.tuhs.org>>; "Internet History"
<internet-history(a)postel.org <mailto:internet-history@postel.org>>
Sent: 3/11/2021 4:02:50 PM
Subject: Re: [TUHS] [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
> On Mar 11, 2021, at 12:32 PM, Ron Natalie <ron(a)ronnatalie.com
> <mailto:ron@ronnatalie.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Amusingly one day we got an Imagen ethernet-connected laser
>> printer. Mike Muuss decided the thing should be named BRL-ZAP and
>> since I didn't know what to put down as the machine type, and it did
>> have a 68000 in it, I had Jake put 68000 in the entry in the host table.
>>
>> The next day I got all kinds of hate mail from other BSD sites who
>> assumed I had intentionally sabotaged the host table. Apparently,
>> the BSD systems used a YACC grammar to parse the NIC table into the
>> Berkeley one. The only problem is they got the grammar wrong and
>> assumed the CPU type always began with a letter. There parse blew
>> up on my "ZAP" host and they assumed that was the desired effect.
>
> This is understandable as
> a) All the "official machine names" in various assigned numbers RFCs
> start with a letter.
> b) the BNF syntax for the "host table specification" entries in RFC
> 952 or 810 are not precise enough.
>
> <cputype> ::= PDP-11/70 | DEC-1080 | C/30 | CDC-6400...etc.
>
> NOTE: See "Assigned Numbers" for specific options and acronyms
> for machine types, operating systems, and protocol/services.
>
> for machine types, operating systems, and protocol/services.
>
> c) 68000 was not an official name!
> :-) :-) :-)
>
>> I countered back that using a YACC grammar for this was rediculous.
>> There was already a real popular file on UNIX that had a bunch of
>> fields separated by colons and commas (/etc/passwd anybody) that it
>> was never necessary to use YACC to parse.
>
> Can't argue with that! Though that doesn't mean a handwritten parser
> wouldn't have complained about 68000.
>
11 Mar
11 Mar
9:20 p.m.
New subject: [COFF] Pondering the hosts file
Cross-posting to TUHS my original response to COFF.
On 3/11/21 11:02 AM, Clem Cole wrote:
Grant, are you asking about a multi-homed host?
I had specifically elided multi-homing for simplicity.
IIRC the original BSD code did the first hit and stop,
when looking
something up.
*nod*
That's my understanding.
What we sometimes did was give the host an alias :
host-en for the
ethernet and host-pro proteon HW.
If I understand what you're saying:
192.0.2.1 host.example.net host-en
198.51.100.1 host.example.net host-pro
Host would be on both lines, so you wanted to make the
first 'host'
to be the default.
I guess I shouldn't elide multi-homing and instead address it directly.
Or at least clarify the paradigm.
Should a given host name appear on more than one entry / line in the
hosts file if it's only got one IP (other than 127.0.0.1 / ::1)?
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
1138
days inactive
1139
days old
27 comments
15 participants
participants (15)
-
Bakul Shah -
Clem Cole -
George Michaelson -
Grant Taylor -
Henry Bent -
Jaap Akkerhuis -
Jan Schaumann -
Jeremy C. Reed -
Lars Brinkhoff -
Mary Ann Horton -
Nelson H. F. Beebe -
Richard Salz -
Ron Natalie -
Steffen Nurpmeso -
Warner Losh