On Sunday, 11 September 2016 at 21:31:10 -0400, Norman Wilson wrote: I'm confused. 4.1c has gone down in history as the first version with Internet code, and looking at the sources (from mckusick's CD set), I see the network files in /sys/netinet with names very reminiscent of current FreeBSD file names. The files have timestamps between November 1982 and May 1983. Why should they have been removed? I would have thought that exactly this functionality would have been the reason why you adopted 4.1c. Similarly, it also included FFS and (not surprisingly sockets. I checked further back, but unfortunately the previous version on the CDs is 4.1a, and it has no kernel code. Greg -- Sent from my desktop computer. Finger grog(a)FreeBSD.org for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA

Do any copies of 8th Edition exist anywhere? ;) That's one way to check! Sent from my iPhone

On Sunday, 11 September 2016 at 23:24:47 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: Right, the discussion was about 4.1c. I just wanted to confirm that it was, in fact, the first version with TCP/IP. Yes, that's what Norman said: I think the perceived "failings" were with sockets, not with TCP/IP. That was what led to the misimplementation of STREAMS. My real confusion was what they really wanted from 4.1c, but I suppose it was the VM implementation. Can anybody comment? Greg -- Sent from my desktop computer. Finger grog(a)FreeBSD.org for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers. This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA

norman(a)oclsc.org (Norman Wilson) wrote: founded by Bill Joy and Kirk approached the project a year (or more) later and imlemented ony the parts that are related to the block allocation. Does someone know more? Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.net (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin joerg.schilling(a)fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.org/private/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/schilytools/files/'

Brantley Coile <brantleycoile(a)me.com> wrote: IIRC, I had a copy of SunOS-4.0 sometime in autumn 1987. It (and the Sun AT&T deal based on the code) definitely was the top topic in the Sun User Group meeting in December 1987. Jörg -- EMail:joerg@schily.net (home) Jörg Schilling D-13353 Berlin joerg.schilling(a)fokus.fraunhofer.de (work) Blog: http://schily.blogspot.com/ URL: http://cdrecord.org/private/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/schilytools/files/'

Clarification. “From whence it came” meant where SunOS-4.0 got STREAMS not from where streams came from.

On Mon, Sep 12, 2016 at 3:20 AM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> wrote: I'll take a side trip to answer this question.... 4.1A was the first BSD version that had the beginning of the wnj rewrite of the BBN code, but did have an IP stack based on the BBN but with the beginnings of a new API. (Again, if I can get some tapes read, I used to have 4.1A and 4.1B tapes). FYI: straight 4.1 (GA code if you will) did have a IP stack - just not from UCB nor a new API to use it. Please remember, UCB *did not have the contract* for networking support for DARPA, BBN did. For an API, the BBN code used the Chaosnet trick in nami of leaving text chars at the next of the open call as parameters - i.e. open ("/dev/tcp/mumble") and the TCP device would take if their. Hence with that hack, no new system calls were used (just the traditional open/close/read/write). Joy would create sockets/bind et al in response to the CMU Accent System that they were building for DARPA on the triple-drip PERQs. But the IP stack itself was from BBN (Gurwitz code). BTW: That's were the dreadful mbuf's code came from. Bill also tried to get some other stacks besides IP inside of the sockets framework, such as XNS and the ISO code, but in fact that would take much hacking to sockets before it worked (in a sense). That said, it was the release of 4.1C to the DARPA contractors and some other specific places (such as Sun, Apollo, and Masscomp that I know) and later the GA of 4.2BSD that made the IP stack for UNIX spread. With BSD4.2 came two things for networking the full sockets API and sendmail as its SMTP implementation (the BBN smtp was not used or released). FYI: BBN (Rob) had written a somewhat OS independant IP/TCP stack (mbufs were created so he could be independant of any specific OS kernel's memory scheme). It ran in HP's 1000s and 3000's IIRC and a few other systems. This was the code that was spliced in 4.1, as was the user level code (telnet, ftp and smtp -- this without hacking BSD's delivermail stuff). BBN would take 4.2 back and do an update beyond that but for whatever reasons, few places ever really picked that code base up (we used it in Stellix as we found it easier to make it parallel then the BSD code base). Also, Eric Cooper and I put the BBN stack on the original 4.1 UCB CAD systems on a Xerox 3M ethernet before 4.1A was available. IIRC Sam Leffler was actually using the BBN code base to write the rcp/rsh/rexec and routed stuff after seeing some of the XNS/PUP stuff at Xerox (routed is pretty much a direct "rip-off" of the XNS way of doing routing) and that got spliced into the wnj's stuff later. Clem

below On Tue, Sep 13, 2016 at 6:52 AM, Tony Finch <dot(a)dotat.at> wrote: ​Sorry - yes, force of habit of many years ago, ​ ​ I suppose I should be happy that my fingers did not call the Perq by it's sometimes (CMU) name, the "PascAlto."​ A number of my friends and colleagues in those days made money by working over there. That said, I do miss the GPD - aka the Graphics Wonder which was, IMHO, their best product. A vector graphics system with a dedicated PDP-11. Some of the coolest programs I ever ran on the CMU PDP-10's displayed on the "GDPs." I still have a technical manual for it and have had a private dream of trying to put it into simh to try to resurrect some of those old codes (ah yes -- something else for my retirement "bucket list" - real work gets in the way). Clem