[TUHS] s editor

Sat Jul 4 16:16:38 AEST 2020

Never mind. I see John Cowan has already asked.

I'll crawl back in my hole now

On Sat, Jul 4, 2020, 1:10 AM Paul Palmer <paul.allan.palmer at gmail.com wrote:

> Could someone point me to some information about s editor?
>
> Googling didn't help
>
> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020, 9:00 PM <tuhs-request at minnie.tuhs.org wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>>    1. v7 uucp debugging help requested (Adam Thornton)
>>    2. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole)
>>    3. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Grant Taylor)
>>    4. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (John Cowan)
>>    5. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole)
>>    6. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Clem Cole)
>>    7. Re: v7 uucp debugging help requested (Norman Wilson)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 13:52:42 -0700
>> From: Adam Thornton <athornton at gmail.com>
>> To: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs at tuhs.org>
>> Subject: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
>> Message-ID:
>>         <CAP2nic3UNxqi-obHwB5H+Ee+x5MKsd=eBrwhVbX+Ao3AgVPx=
>> g at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> (if this is better suited for COFF, that'd be fine too)
>>
>> I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry Pi host.
>> This plus the "s" editor (already working) are really all that's needed to
>> make this something pretty close to a daily driver, if all I wanted to do
>> was write text files (which in some sense is all my job _is_, but to be
>> fair I get a much more immediate feedback loop in my current environment).
>>
>> I was following
>>
>> https://github.com/jwbrase/pdp11-tools/blob/master/howtos/V7%20UUCP%20Installation%20Guide.pdf
>> more or less--I had already rebuilt v7 with the DZ terminal driver and was
>> using it for interactive sessions (albeit, before I started trying to get
>> UUCP running, with 7-bit line discipline--but I've since changed that).
>>
>> I have 16 DZ lines, I've set them to 8-bit mode.  They're working fine,
>> because I can use them for terminal sessions.
>>
>> I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi.
>>
>> I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost works.
>>
>> >From the Pi side, I see (with uulog):
>>
>> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port TCP)
>> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful
>> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful (protocol
>> 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7)
>> uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending
>> /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes)
>> uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiting for
>> packet
>> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: sent 86,
>> resent 6, received 1
>> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum 0,
>> order 0, remote rejects 0
>> uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds 5440
>> bytes 19 bps)
>>
>> So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end is
>> starting uucico as expected:
>>
>> login: pi-uucp
>> Password:
>> Shere
>>
>> uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in the
>> spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout waiting
>> for packet.
>>
>> So my question is, what else do I do to debug this?  Clearly the pi
>> (Taylor
>> UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an acknowledgement?--from
>> the
>> v7 side to let it know the transmission was successful.
>>
>> Any help would be appreciated.
>>
>> Adam
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 17:26:48 -0400
>> From: Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com>
>> To: Adam Thornton <athornton at gmail.com>
>> Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs at tuhs.org>
>> Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
>> Message-ID:
>>         <
>> CAC20D2Mxug+DdwUcS-FDvWzt4ysmZkZDtVgQ8_HYAz2kpPVS8g at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 4:54 PM Adam Thornton <athornton at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > (if this is better suited for COFF, that'd be fine too)
>> >
>> > I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry Pi
>> > host.  This plus the "s" editor (already working) are really all that's
>> > needed to make this something pretty close to a daily driver, if all I
>> > wanted to do was write text files (which in some sense is all my job
>> _is_,
>> > but to be fair I get a much more immediate feedback loop in my current
>> > environment).
>> >
>> > I was following
>> >
>> https://github.com/jwbrase/pdp11-tools/blob/master/howtos/V7%20UUCP%20Installation%20Guide.pdf
>> > more or less--I had already rebuilt v7 with the DZ terminal driver and
>> was
>> > using it for interactive sessions (albeit, before I started trying to
>> get
>> > UUCP running, with 7-bit line discipline--but I've since changed that).
>> >
>> > I have 16 DZ lines, I've set them to 8-bit mode.  They're working fine,
>> > because I can use them for terminal sessions.
>> >
>> As a long time UUCP person on PDP-11's, "Danger Will Robinson."
>>
>> Just for grins and giggles on the V7/PDP-11 side, try it over a DH  (VH
>> driver in simh) emulation (or even a KL/DL - although the
>> simulated interrupts will be a mother).  That said, the VH driver is a not
>> exactly a DH as I understand it, its the later QBUS version which was
>> similar but different.   It's been on my list of things I want to chase
>> down at some point to make work to get it closer to the original.
>>
>> FYI: Running UUCP over real DZ's was always troublesome.  There were a ton
>> of updates/patches done post the original V7 release in the DZ drivers to
>> make them play better.   Most of us that ran large UUCP set up in the old
>> days, installed ABLE DMAX (DH/DM) that were a single board DH replacement
>> -
>> they are DMA, and buffered (and supported proper modem control which the
>> DZ's don't - although later UCB work on the driver sort of faked it enough
>> to make to it work for basic dial-up use reasonably reliably).
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 16:38:31 -0600
>> From: Grant Taylor <gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net>
>> To: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org
>> Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
>> Message-ID: <01f8f896-9921-6c55-8dc2-6b9859f2f230 at tnetconsulting.net>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>
>> On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
>> > I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi.
>> >
>> > I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost works.
>>
>> Which system are you referring to here?  The Pi or V7?
>>
>> >  From the Pi side, I see (with uulog):
>> >
>> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port TCP)
>> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful
>> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful
>> > (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7)
>> > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending
>> > /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes)
>> > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiting
>> > for packet
>> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: sent
>> > 86, resent 6, received 1
>>
>> I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' protocol to
>> talk to v7.  I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP over
>> Ethernet connections.  As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the 'g'
>> protocol.
>>
>> I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do.
>>
>> I'm ignorantly asking questions.
>>
>> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum
>> 0,
>> > order 0, remote rejects 0
>> > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds
>> > 5440 bytes 19 bps)
>> >
>> > So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end is
>> > starting uucico as expected:
>> >
>> > login: pi-uucp
>> > Password:
>> > Shere
>>
>> Shouldn't that be something more like the following?
>>
>> Shere=v7
>>
>> What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show?  (I'm much more familiar with
>> Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7.
>>
>> > uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in the
>> > spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout
>> > waiting for packet.
>> >
>> > So my question is, what else do I do to debug this?  Clearly the pi
>> > (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an
>> > acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmission was
>> > successful.
>> >
>> > Any help would be appreciated.
>>
>> I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years and
>> I've forgotten more than comments above.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Grant. . . .
>> unix || die
>>
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 18:50:24 -0400
>> From: John Cowan <cowan at ccil.org>
>> To: Adam Thornton <athornton at gmail.com>
>> Cc: The Eunuchs Hysterical Society <tuhs at tuhs.org>
>> Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
>> Message-ID:
>>         <CAD2gp_QsNY1WnL1xeBAJbt=m1Af1nJ_BFTX6tRTLy=
>> DzyQnUZg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 4:54 PM Adam Thornton <athornton at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> > I've been trying to set up UUCP on my V7 system and its raspberry Pi
>> > host.  This plus the "s" editor (already working)
>> >
>>
>> What is this "s" editor?  The v7 man pages say nothing about it, and of
>> course Dr. Google is equally unhelpful.
>>
>>
>> John Cowan          http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan        cowan at ccil.org
>> We call nothing profound that is not wittily expressed.
>>         --Northrop Frye (improved)
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 20:28:49 -0400
>> From: Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com>
>> To: Grant Taylor <gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net>
>> Cc: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org
>> Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
>> Message-ID:
>>         <CAC20D2PRpAPcfou=
>> ze2pdY5wRJnYbiYFxb-GcXK1P7SbZJFoPg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Grant - The g (greg’s protocol) is correct. IIRC that’s the only line
>> protocol Dan distributed in the V7 original code base.
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 6:46 PM Grant Taylor via TUHS <
>> tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
>> > > I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi.
>> > >
>> > > I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost
>> works.
>> >
>> > Which system are you referring to here?  The Pi or V7?
>> >
>> > >  From the Pi side, I see (with uulog):
>> > >
>> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port
>> TCP)
>> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful
>> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful
>> > > (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7)
>> > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending
>> > > /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes)
>> > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiting
>> > > for packet
>> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: sent
>> > > 86, resent 6, received 1
>> >
>> > I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' protocol to
>> > talk to v7.  I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP over
>> > Ethernet connections.  As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the 'g'
>> > protocol.
>> >
>> > I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do.
>> >
>> > I'm ignorantly asking questions.
>> >
>> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum
>> 0,
>> > > order 0, remote rejects 0
>> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds
>> > > 5440 bytes 19 bps)
>> > >
>> > > So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end is
>> > > starting uucico as expected:
>> > >
>> > > login: pi-uucp
>> > > Password:
>> > > Shere
>> >
>> > Shouldn't that be something more like the following?
>> >
>> > Shere=v7
>> >
>> > What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show?  (I'm much more familiar with
>> > Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7.
>> >
>> > > uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in the
>> > > spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout
>> > > waiting for packet.
>> > >
>> > > So my question is, what else do I do to debug this?  Clearly the pi
>> > > (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an
>> > > acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmission was
>> > > successful.
>> > >
>> > > Any help would be appreciated.
>> >
>> > I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years and
>> > I've forgotten more than comments above.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Grant. . . .
>> > unix || die
>> >
>> > --
>> Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Fri, 3 Jul 2020 20:31:05 -0400
>> From: Clem Cole <clemc at ccc.com>
>> To: Grant Taylor <gtaylor at tnetconsulting.net>
>> Cc: tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org
>> Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
>> Message-ID:
>>         <
>> CAC20D2Mt4t+Y4hqeDusB1rxw_CdzJsFySJnEcr2g1T6vUgDHbw at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Grant. I wrote e for Ethernet based ( ip/ tcp ) connections at Masscomp so
>> we didn’t have hack the mailer at time.
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 3, 2020 at 6:46 PM Grant Taylor via TUHS <
>> tuhs at minnie.tuhs.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > On 7/3/20 2:52 PM, Adam Thornton wrote:
>> > > I've built UUCP, set a node name, and set it up on the pi.
>> > >
>> > > I can execute uucico to send files, and it, frustratingly, almost
>> works.
>> >
>> > Which system are you referring to here?  The Pi or V7?
>> >
>> > >  From the Pi side, I see (with uulog):
>> > >
>> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:34.97 23106) Calling system v7 (port
>> TCP)
>> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:42.25 23106) Login successful
>> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:11:44.44 23106) Handshake successful
>> > > (protocol 'g' sending packet/window 64/3 receiving 64/7)
>> > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:11:51.61 23106) Sending
>> > > /home/adam/git/simh/sim_scsi.h (6780 bytes)
>> > > uucico v7 adam (2020-07-03 08:16:21.79 23106) ERROR: Timed out waiting
>> > > for packet
>> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Protocol 'g' packets: sent
>> > > 86, resent 6, received 1
>> >
>> > I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' protocol to
>> > talk to v7.  I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP over
>> > Ethernet connections.  As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the 'g'
>> > protocol.
>> >
>> > I think that Clem knows a LOT more about this than I do.
>> >
>> > I'm ignorantly asking questions.
>> >
>> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:21.80 23106) Errors: header 2, checksum
>> 0,
>> > > order 0, remote rejects 0
>> > > uucico v7 - (2020-07-03 08:16:22.51 23106) Call complete (283 seconds
>> > > 5440 bytes 19 bps)
>> > >
>> > > So it's clearly logging in, and if I telnet in directly, the v7 end is
>> > > starting uucico as expected:
>> > >
>> > > login: pi-uucp
>> > > Password:
>> > > Shere
>> >
>> > Shouldn't that be something more like the following?
>> >
>> > Shere=v7
>> >
>> > What does 'uuname -l' (or '--local') show?  (I'm much more familiar with
>> > Taylor UUCP than I am the UUCP in v7.
>> >
>> > > uulog -x on the v7 side has no output, and nothing ever appears in the
>> > > spool directory, which I suspect is a direct result of the timeout
>> > > waiting for packet.
>> > >
>> > > So my question is, what else do I do to debug this?  Clearly the pi
>> > > (Taylor UUCP) side is expecting something else--maybe an
>> > > acknowledgement?--from the v7 side to let it know the transmission was
>> > > successful.
>> > >
>> > > Any help would be appreciated.
>> >
>> > I've not messed with this particular problem in probably 2 years and
>> > I've forgotten more than comments above.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Grant. . . .
>> > unix || die
>> >
>> > --
>> Sent from a handheld expect more typos than usual
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>> http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/attachments/20200703/eeebfeff/attachment-0001.htm
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Fri,  3 Jul 2020 20:35:52 -0400 (EDT)
>> From: norman at oclsc.org (Norman Wilson)
>> To: tuhs at tuhs.org
>> Subject: Re: [TUHS] v7 uucp debugging help requested
>> Message-ID: <20200704003552.EB5914422E at lignose.oclsc.org>
>>
>> Grant Taylor:
>>
>>   I'm a little surprised that you're trying to use the 'g' protocol to
>>   talk to v7.  I thought the 'g' protocol came out later for TCP over
>>   Ethernet connections.  As such I wonder if UUCP on v7 supports the 'g'
>>   protocol.
>>
>> =====
>>
>> You're mis-remembering.  g was the original protocol,
>> intended for use over possibly-noisy serial lines (e.g.
>> modems on POTS).  It does error checking of various
>> sorts with retransmission.  I believe it is named g
>> after the protocol's original designer, Greg Chesson.
>>
>> Later protocols meant to work over reliable, error-
>> checked links like a TCP/IP circuit were t and e.
>>
>> Norman Wilson
>> Toronto ON
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
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>
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