[TUHS] [tuhs] The Unix shell: a 50-year view

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

Steffen Nurpmeso wrote in
 <20210702234941.MjMt0%steffen at sdaoden.eu>:
 |Steve Nickolas wrote in
 | <alpine.DEB.2.21.2107021910240.15013 at sd-119843.dedibox.fr>:
 ||On Fri, 2 Jul 2021, Henry Bent wrote:
 ||> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 at 17:38, Larry McVoy <lm at mcvoy.com> wrote:
 ||>> As I started reading it I found plenty to disagree with in the \
 ||>> first few
 ||>> paragraphs but they completely lost me at "After all, moving from \
 ||>> System
 ||>> V init scripts to systemd has arguably improvedthe Linux boot sequence.\
 ||>> "
 ||>>
 ||>> Um, no, just, no.
 ...
 ||The Linux distro I use does use systemd but I can ignore it and go \
 ||on with 
 ||my life as if it were still running sysvinit.  So it's not that big \
 ||a deal 
 ||to me.
 ||
 ||I'd prefer that they kept sysvinit, but eh.  What's that saying?  "Those 
 ||who fail to understand Unix are condemned to recreate it, poorly" ?
 |
 |Well iwd(8) for example that i happen to have installed as
 ...
 |.. whatever), and note that iwd neither supports a normal syslog
 |nor command line parameters to configure paths etc., the latter
 |have to come in via environment if they shall, and the manual says
 |these are "normally provided by systemd" (which is not true .. for
 |me).  And no syslog at all!  No PID file handling.  And bugs even
 |though Intel.com paid for it.  I mean "get up, stand up", they do
 |a thousand things and not seldom i wonder.

And not to mention that there is a builtin DHCP server, but it
only can be integrated nicely "back" into systemd, or resolvconf.
You know, so much logic, and then not even the possibility to
simply say "hook" to invoke a simply shell script.  So i need
dhcpcd in addition, just for that hook that i use, for example, to
setup dnsmasq resolv, and to start a shell-based rdate(8) hook to
contact my ntpd-driving web VM via VPN.  I mean, what can happen,
address, gateway, and some more variables.  Carrier gained and
carrier lost.  Just some environment variables to pass along.

And mind you, it is getting worse it seems.  They write their
software more and more integrated specifically for systemd beyond
that iwd thing.  They do not generate manual pages when creating
release balls.  They require newest compiler additions for some
minor syntax sugar on less that one percent of their codebase.  It
seems some new "systems" even require an active internet
connection .. for compiling the software!  (Rust?)

I mean, that is not new.  Zawinski's complain on completely
rewriting Netscape Navigator in C++ for the rewrites sake can
still be read on the web.  In parts it may be normal progression,
it is just the dumb to which it appears as entanglement.
With a "Happy to be stupid",

Ciao from Germany,

--steffen
|
|Der Kragenbaer,                The moon bear,
|der holt sich munter           he cheerfully and one by one
|einen nach dem anderen runter  wa.ks himself off
|(By Robert Gernhardt)