[TUHS] Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix philosophy' The Register

[Warner Losh]

For me, precomputing an environment is the same as a wysiwyg editor: what
you see is all you get. If it works for you, and the environment that's
inferred from predefined CPP symbols is correct, then it's an easy
solution. When it's not, and for me it often wasn't, it's nothing but pain
and suffering and saying MF all the time (also not Make File)....  I was
serious when I've said I've had more positive cmake experiences (which
haven't been all that impressive: I'm more impressed with meson in this
space, for example) than I ever had with IMakefiles, imake, xmkmf, etc...
But It's also clear that different people have lived through different
hassles, and I respect that...

I've noticed too that we're relatively homogeneous these days: Everybody is
a Linux box or Windows Box or MacOS, except for a few weird people on the
fringes (like me). It's a lot easier to get things right enough w/o
autotools, scons, meson, etc than it was in The Bad Old Days of the Unix
Wars and the Innovation Famine that followed from the late 80s to the mid
2000s.... In that environment, there's one of two reactions: Test
Everything or Least Common Denominator. And we've seen both represented in
this thread.  As well as the 'There's so few environments, can't you
precompute them all?' sentiment from newbies that never bloodied their
knuckles with some of the less like Research Unix machines out there like
AIX and HP/UX...  Or worse, Eunice...

Warner

On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 12:42 PM Adam Thornton <athornton at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> Someone clearly never used imake...
>
>
> There's a reason that the xmkmf command ends in the two letters it does,
> and I'm never going to believe it's "make file".
>
> Adam
>
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2024 at 11:34 AM Greg A. Woods <woods at robohack.ca> wrote:
>
>> At Thu, 20 Jun 2024 01:01:01 -0400, Scot Jenkins via TUHS <tuhs at tuhs.org>
>> wrote:
>> Subject: [TUHS] Re: Version 256 of systemd boasts '42% less Unix
>> philosophy' The Register
>> >
>> > "Greg A. Woods" <woods at robohack.ca> wrote:
>> >
>> > > I will not ever allow cmake to run, or even exist, on the machines I
>> > > control...
>> >
>> > I'm not a fan of cmake either.
>> >
>> > How do you deal with software that only builds with cmake (or meson,
>> > scons, ... whatever the developer decided to use as the build tool)?
>> > What alternatives exist short of reimplementing the build process in
>> > a standard makefile by hand, which is obviously very time consuming,
>> > error prone, and will probably break the next time you want to update
>> > a given package?
>>
>> The alternative _is_ to reimplement the build process.
>>
>> For example, see:
>>
>>         https://github.com/robohack/yajl/
>>
>> This example is a far more comprehensive rewrite than is usually
>> necessary as I wanted a complete and portable example that could be used
>> as the basis for further projects.
>>
>> An example of a much simpler reimplementation:
>>
>>
>> http://cvsweb.NetBSD.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/external/mit/ctwm/bin/ctwm/Makefile?rev=1.12&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup&only_with_tag=MAIN
>>
>> --
>>                                         Greg A. Woods <gwoods at acm.org>
>>
>> Kelowna, BC     +1 250 762-7675           RoboHack <woods at robohack.ca>
>> Planix, Inc. <woods at planix.com>     Avoncote Farms <woods at avoncote.ca>
>>
>
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