[TUHS] Government-Issue UNIX?

[George Michaelson via TUHS]

I'm imagining somebody believing the system implicitly derived higher trust
because "it's totally Wirth it" .. but a mixture of semi automatic program
translation and Emacs lisp filtration, sounds like an exercise in
complexity.

No shade cast on anyone who made it work. I'm just.. well my gast is
completely flabbered.

G

On Thu, 9 Oct 2025, 3:29 pm Tom Perrine via TUHS, <tuhs at tuhs.org> wrote:

> KSOS - for PDP-11 originally developed by Ford Aerospace, and then extended
> at Logicon. It did have a supervisor rmode UNIX system call compatible
> system. Later there was also a userland library that implemented something
> that mostly matched the UNIX system calls. It had no kernel code in common
> with UNIX. It was written in Modula.
>
> KSOS was used in the Trusted Downgrade System of the multi-level-secure
> "all-source" intel fusion system that Logicon built for a few agencies.
> ACCAT-GUARD and USAFE-GUARD, for example.
>
> KSOS-32 - a VAX "port" of KSOS (which was then retconned as "KSOS-11"). The
> Modula code from -11 was run though Emacs macros to produce Modula-2, and
> then parts were re-written as needed.
>
> I worked on both systems at Logicon.
>
> --tep
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 8, 2025 at 7:17 PM segaloco via TUHS <tuhs at tuhs.org> wrote:
>
> > AT&T has had a variable relationship with governments over the years,
> > especially the U.S.  On one hand, Bell Laboratories collaborated with
> > the government and military on an number of projects such as the Nike
> > Missile and TelStar.  On the other hand, the Bell System was under
> > constant regulatory scrutiny that was eventually its undoing.
> >
> > Part of this has me wondering if there was ever an attempt by the U.S.
> > or another government (that folks can discuss of course) to license with
> > AT&T to create a government-issued version of UNIX.  Something that
> > immediately comes to mind is the KSOS secure UNIX version developed by
> > the DoD from what I know.  However, this would've been used internally,
> > not something that the government would attempt to distribute en masse
> > for day to day computer operations or directly to constituents.  Another
> > system that comes to mind, tangentially related, are the state-sponsored
> > versions of GNU/Linux found in China and North Korea.  Of course, AT&T
> > doesn't factor in there because penguins, but still, it shows an
> > interest in that sphere of influence also in providing a standardized
> > operating system (to the benefit of users or state actors...unknown).
> >
> > Had this ever come up?  Has (as a matter of public record) any
> > government attempted to buy a source license from AT&T for UNIX and then
> > produce their own state-sanctioned UNIX flavor?  I would assume to
> > produce KSOS, the DoD would've needed to hold one such source license,
> > but that could be me being ignorant of special government contacts that
> > exist in a wholly separate space from AT&T's commercial business.
> >
> > - Matt G.
> >
>