PUPS and BUPS (burp!) thoughts.....

User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys rdkeys at seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu
Thu Jul 30 03:27:12 AEST 1998

>    "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys at seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> wrote:
> > It is obvious that none of the old toys are going to be competing with
> > the rush to NT and SCOish things.
>    Excuse me, sir, but I have to make a point here. They _ARE_ competing!

No excuses necessary.  But, please relax a bit and don't let the blood
boil to much.  All of us here, are interested in the preservation of the
beast.  Granted many may run it for a living, me included, to some extent.
But, likewise most or many of us are the same folks that have a vaxen
or pdp-11 in the basement (I remember seeing a pix of one of our leader's
machines next to the kitchen fridge?).  Clearly, the basement/kitchen toys
are not competing.  They are purely hobby related.  My dumpster risc box
won't ever compete again, but is fun to spin up a TeX and troff on.

> My office is the largest room in the department, and it's filled with VAXen
> of all kinds. My goal is to get 4.3BSD-* running on all of them and operate
> this system in direct competition with other UNIX systems on our campus,
> which are all Pentiums or SPARCs. Since my system administration skills and
> friendliness to students surpass those of other campus UNIX systems' admins
> by many orders of binary magnitude, I plan to urge people to migrate to my
> VAXen this way. Yes, my plan is total world VAX domination! This is exactly
> why I want to modify Berkeley VAX UNIX to run on all VAX models from 11/780
> to 10000. (An EXTREMELY daring and ambitious goal, needless to say.)

Clearly yours are more mainstream related.  

Kudos for the sysadmin handholding towards the students.  Mentoring, one
on one is the best way to handle many computer learning things.

Although vaxen may dominate the world (or did at one time, according to
Henry Spencer's infamous ten commandments for C programmers), there are
many lesser breeds that I sense others of us partake of.  Also, there
are insufficient numbers of remaining vaxen and pdp-11's for all of us
to have one in the home hobbyroom.  Because of that, I would suggest
that maybe there is interest in the other lines of machines and their
related unices, even the 32bitters.
>    I have two strong and radical views:
>    0. The only higher-than-PDP-11 computers that can be allowed to run UNIX
> are DEC VAXen. I oppose the idea of running UNIX on PeeCees and shit like
> that.

Not so, IMHO.  The purist may run a vaxen in the manner of the Bugattis
of old, but us garage monkeywrench types may be stuck with even a lowly
PC thingie.  Don't quite put the PC flavors down, since I can attest to
their utility in poverty stricken research projects for at least the past
10 years, courtesy Big Blue and that hybrid PC unix of theirs (AIX 1.x).
Also, the freebie BSD's are sufficiently close to the real thing, that
most average users would not know the difference.  Cat is cat is cat,
no matter how it is coded (and they all look remarkably similar).

>    1. I consider it the ultimate in blasphemy to attempt to create "UNIX
> clones" that people dare to call "Unix" but don't really contain any code
> written by God Ritchie, God Thompson, or God Kernighan. I never use any
> "free Unices" like FreeBSD and NetBSD. Right now I use Ultrix and SunOS,
> which are kosher in the above sense but binary-only for most people. The
> latter part is why I want to move to 4.3BSD-*. Also my belief in True
> licensed UNIX(R) is the reason I have joined PUPS, as it seems to be the
> only remaining group dealing with such UNIX.

Well, yes and no.

I consider it a tribute to the likes of Thompson, Ritchie, Kernighan,
Ossanna, and a string of others down the trees, that the wisdom of their
reasoning and toiling has had fruition even in the lowly PC's.  Why did
the freebies catch on like they have?  Because the folks wanted something
like a BSD, and the corporate bean counters and lawyers missed their chance.
As to which flavor to use, I use what I have that will run on whichever
box I have on.  I prefer a BSDish box, but even a V7 is fun, and with
a viish terminal driver and troff, still runs with the best of the big
dogs, and even AIX is usable if you get used to its quirks.

But, for sure, the point of all this is to preserve the history, code,
nuances, and whatever else can be maintained, unless I am sorely amiss
of the PUPS goals.  I only think it needs to include the castoff 32
bit machines, too, hence the need for a BUPS group, IMHO.

>    Sincerely,
>    Michael Sokolov

With all due respect.

R.D. Keys
rdkeys at seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu

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