[TUHS] FreeBSD behind the times? (was: Favorite unix design principles?)

[Will Senn]

Oh brother. I use FreeBSD all the time. I prefer it for its stability and ZFS which has NEVER let me down and I’ve done my share of stupid user error. Now that Linux has ZFS, it doesn’t seem as stuck in the dark ages, but uptime on my fbsd instance is 10x any of my Linux instances. We are soooo off topic, I think :). But, I’m always up for talking up FBSD. I use it in my classes, too and the system is much more coherent for my systems programming classes than linux.

Will

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 30, 2021, at 5:11 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog at lemis.com> wrote:
> 
>> On Saturday, 30 January 2021 at 14:28:54 -0800, Larry McVoy wrote:
>>> On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 04:28:26PM -0500, Clem Cole wrote:
>>> If I could get the day-2-day
>>> applications that I need to work on FreeBSD, I suspect I would be there in
>>> a heartbeat.
>> 
>> I dunno about that.  I tried out FreeBSD a couple of years ago when
>> Netflix was flirting with me.  The installer hasn't seen any loving in
>> 30 years it would seem.  The disk setup tool sucks just as bad as it
>> did back in 1988.
> 
> You could be right there, for some value of 1988 (FreeBSD came into
> being in 1992).  The tools work without being good.  But how often do
> you use them?  I've been using FreeBSD since the beginning, and I
> can't recall when I last used the disk partitioning tool, though I'm
> sure that when I did I overrode a lot of (all?) the suggestions.
> 
>> I remember when Linux was this bad in the .90ish releases.  A long
>> time ago.  Now their install is painless, it's every bit as good as
>> Windows and maybe better.
> 
> FWIW, I find Microsoft "Windows" installation terminally confusing
> (that's what you were talking about, right?).  And I've run into
> serious problems with various Linux installations too.  That doesn't
> make the FreeBSD tools better, but maybe it relativizes it.
> 
>> And it got that way fast, I remember doing an install on some
>> machine around 1998 or 1999, I didn't have a mouse plugged in, no
>> worries, you could just move around with the keyboard.  X11 came up
>> as part of the install, the entire install was graphical and
>> seamless.
> 
> The FreeBSD installer *does* install X if you select it.
> 
>> FreeBSD is stuck in the 1990's in terms of user interface.
> 
> You're still talking about the installer, aren't you?  The normal user
> interface is via the shell, which hasn't changed, and for a good
> reason.
> 
>> They've done some good stuff in the kernel but it's not an end user
>> system,
> 
> There I have to agree with you.  A little TLC would go a long way.
> But I hope that you're not advocating the "change your GUI with your
> underwear" attitude that Microsoft, Apple and many Linux distros
> have.  One of the reasons I don't use Linux is because every time I
> try, the interface has changed.
> 
> Greg
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