In article by Mark D. Roth:
> Warren,
>
> I have a PDP-11/03-L at home that I rescued from Bell+Howell Corp and
> know next to nothing about. I'm looking for any info I might be able
> to find on how to get this machine running, as well as any info I
> might find about getting a Unix implementation for it.
I don't think you'll get Unix running on an /03, I just searched thru the
paper archives here and I've seen references to /23's, /34's, 40's on up,
but not for /03's. I'd suspect that the /03 doesn't have the memory management
(nor the memory) to get Unix running.
> I saw reference to a mailing list on the webpage, but no information
> on how to join. What can you tell me?
Mark, I'll add you to the list, and bounce this there as well; someone
with more knowledge of -11 hardware should be able to set us both straight
with regards to 11/03's.
Cheers,
Warren
>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mon Aug 11 13:53:16 1997
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From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199708110353.UAA21891(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: roth(a)uiuc.edu, wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: PUPS
Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Warren, Mark -
> In article by Mark D. Roth:
> > I have a PDP-11/03-L at home that I rescued from Bell+Howell Corp and
> > know next to nothing about. I'm looking for any info I might be able
>
> I don't think you'll get Unix running on an /03, I just searched thru the
Quite correct.
> paper archives here and I've seen references to /23's, /34's, 40's on up,
> but not for /03's. I'd suspect that the /03 doesn't have the memory management
> (nor the memory) to get Unix running.
Warren - you're absolutely right. The 11/03 has a maximum memory
(most were not fully populated) of 56kbytes and _no_ memory
management. Any Unix (since the initial one on the PDP-7) requires
at least two memory management states: kernel and user. Much later
versions can take advantage of the 3rd mode (supervisor).
Smallest machine I ever ran Unix on was an 11/23 (the development
was done on a 11/70 because various programs were too large to run
on a non split I/D machine such as the 11/23) and it was, shall we
say, "interesting". Just enough memory (max of 248kb) to run one or
two user processes at a time (we had a rather large kernel and some
homebrew communications drivers) - you could get logged in and then
each time you typed a command the shell would get swapped out to run
your command ;).
> Mark, I'll add you to the list, and bounce this there as well; someone
> with more knowledge of -11 hardware should be able to set us both straight
> with regards to 11/03's.
You got it right - nothing to set straight.
Steven Schultz
>From George Coulouris <George.Coulouris(a)dcs.qmw.ac.uk> Fri Aug 22 01:49:53 1997
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References: <199708062322.JAA03135(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from "Warren
Toomey" at Aug 7, 97 09:22:07 am
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Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:49:53 +0100
To: Michael Engel <engel(a)numerik.math.uni-siegen.de>
From: George Coulouris <George.Coulouris(a)dcs.qmw.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: George's PDP Tape in UK
Cc: Tim Bradshaw <tfb(a)aiai.ed.ac.uk>, wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey),
oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Dear Michael,
Many thanks for your offer. Sorry for the delay in replying. If you are
still willing I would like to take up your offer. If you will mail me your
physical mail address, I'll send you the tape. As far as I can remember the
tape is a UNIX tar archive, that should be readable on the VMS machine and
you could give the files back to me by ftp.
(I'm taking up your offer rather than Tim Bradshaw's because you seem to
have had more recent success with reading old tapes.
Thanks again,
George
At 9:39 am +0100 7/8/97, Michael Engel wrote:
* >
* We have a TU81+ 9 track tape connected to a VMS Alpha here. So, if you send
* me the tape, I will try to read it. Worked perfectly some months ago for a
* 10 yr. old tape from a DECsystem 10 ...
*
At 3:22 pm +0100 7/8/97, Tim Bradshaw wrote:
*
* We have old-tape-reading-technology, so we could give it a try. No
* promises at all though (I have to turn the drive back on &c, and it's
* not altogether clear that it will work, though it did last time I
* tried it), asnd it will take me ages to get around to it, being very
* inefficient...
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
George F. Coulouris | Computer Science Dept
Professor of Computer Systems | QMW, University of London
WWW: http://www.dcs.qmw.ac.uk/~george | Mile End Road
Phone: +44 171 975 5201 (direct line) | London E1 4NS
Fax: +44 181 980 6533 | United Kingdom
Home phone: +44 171 485 5896 |
pager: 01426 183113 |
>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Aug 27 10:45:58 1997
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199708270045.KAA03801(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:45:58 +1000 (EST)
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
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All,
Here is the latest email from SCO with regards to PDP-11 UNIX
source licenses. I'll add one comment at the bottom.
Please treat this as YOUR EYES ONLY. I haven't got permission from Dion
to forward this on (yet), but I think that more pairs of eyes than just
mine need to have a look at it for any problems.
----- Forwarded message from Dion -----
From: Dion <dionj(a)sco.COM>
X-Mailer: SCO OpenServer Mail Release 5.0
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Touching Base!
Date: Tue, 26 Aug 97 12:45:07 PDT
Warren,
Good progress. We have some positive consensus developing.
Here is the proposed license terms (roughly, not fully legalized
yet). Please let me know if you see any problems with this
proposal:
Here are the terms that I think make sense:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
License terms:
* the license covers the entire distributions (source code, binaries and
documentation) of the following versions of UNIX:
o 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th Edition UNIX
o 32V UNIX
o PWB/UNIX
o those portions of all 2BSD releases which are derived from UNIX
source code
* licensees have these rights wrt the binaries and source code of the above
versions of UNIX:
use
store
reproduce
edit
adapt
enchance
improve
otherwise modify
transmit electronically
repackage
* These rights are licensed to noncommercial users. The source may
not be sold nor used to develop commercial versions of UNIX.
* licensees have the right to install UNIX binaries on PDP-11 hardware and
PDP-11 emulating software
* licensees have the right to allow noncommercial use the UNIX binaries on
systems for which the product is licensed.
(Note that the latter is already permitted, given SCO's binary license
agreement for 5th, 6th and 7th Edition UNIX. We would also be happy with the
following conditions imposed in the source code and binary license for
PDP-11 UNIXes)
* license is not transferable.
* source code covered by the license cannot be distributed or disclosed
to people not covered by the license. The licensees are permitted to
collaborate on modifications and mutually share their modifications.
* SCO is not required to provide copies of any source code, binaries or
documentation with the source code and binary license for PDP-11 UNIXes
License Fee: SCO charges a one-time license fee of $100 per licensee,
for a site license for one organization.
We may, at some future time, provide source distributions (if/when
we can find the sources), but this is not committed. We know that
the licensees have, between them, most of the needed sources.
----- End of forwarded message from Dion -----
My comment. The only thing I want to change is:
* licensees have the right to install UNIX binaries on PDP-11 hardware
and PDP-11 emulating software
becomes
* licensees have the right to install UNIX software on PDP-11 hardware
and PDP-11 emulating software
This allows us to install source so as to modify it or to rebuild kernels etc.
I briefly raised the issue of source distribution (SCO or me? FTP or CD-ROM?),
but I suggested that we leave it until the licenses go on sale.
Please email your comments on this to the mailing list
(oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au).
Thanks,
Warren wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Aug 27 15:51:20 1997
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199708270551.PAA00316(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO
To: sms(a)moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 15:51:20 +1000 (EST)
Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <199708270539.WAA16297(a)moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Aug 26, 97 10:39:11 pm"
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
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In article by Steven M. Schultz:
> It looks to me that SCO has granted "us" every single thing we were
> asking for.
I've thought of a few more changes:
In the wording from SCO, the status of `documentation' is unclear. The
following should clear this up:
+ use the term software == `source, binaries and documentation' in many
places where this is appropriate.
+ use the term `source' only where they want to restrict to licensees.
+ also, don't disclose `source' to people not covered by the SCO license
or by existing UNIX software licenses from Western Electric and AT&T.
Comments anybody?
Warren
>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Fri Aug 29 11:43:09 1997
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199708290143.LAA03340(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Latest PDP-11 UNIX email from SCO
To: mcjones(a)pa.dec.com
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 11:43:09 +1000 (EST)
Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <9708281506.AA29078(a)numbat05-an2.pa.dec.com> from "mcjones(a)pa.dec.com" at "Aug 28, 97 08:06:23 am"
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
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In article by mcjones(a)pa.dec.com:
>
> > Maybe someone else can volunteer, if I organise the contents :-)
>
> There's one here at my workplace. I don't know how to use it myself.
> I could probably get some help in burning one or two, but I don't
> think it would be appropriate to burn dozens or hundreds. How many
> licensees do you anticipate?
There's 300 signatures on the petition. I'd hope that 1/2 of those
will buy licenses, and probably most would like the stuff in easy-to-use
form.
I know that Steven Schultz has access to a writer too (hint hint!).
I will probably buy another hard disk here for the PDP archive, and give
access to license holders.
I'd like to get users to suggest layout changes & what should be exploded
etc. so that we can burn a 650M CD image directly from the archive.
Currently, the archive is sitting at 250M, so there's room to explode
many of the distributions stored there.
We also need to sit down and catalogue this stuff so that it's not
just a collection of random tapes. I'm slowly doing this & have done
the most important stuff, see the Tapes/DETAILS file if you ftp in.
But more work needs to be done.
So hopefully, we can pass the archive (as a Rock Ridge image) to a few
volunteers to burn CD-R copies. Anybody in Europe who would volunteer?
Just an idea!
Warren
>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Sun Aug 31 12:41:29 1997
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199708310241.MAA04803(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: PDP-11 Unix CD-ROM archive burn
To: Kevin.Wright(a)VITREX.com (Kevin Wright)
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 12:41:29 +1000 (EST)
Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <B0620B9317B0D0119D3C0060976CE96418B8(a)nt-main.vitrex.com> from Kevin Wright at "Aug 29, 97 09:24:27 am"
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In article by Kevin Wright:
> I could very possibly volunteer to do one. I have access to my
> companies cdrom burner.
>
> Subject change:
> I own a PDP-11/23+ for which I'm constantly searching the Internet for
> RT-11 and TSX+ documentation and software, as well as any other OS's
> such as Unix. Do you have any such software/documentation in your
> archive of which you would be willing to allow me a copy?
Kevin, until you can buy a license from SCO (soon I hope), all I can
offer are the binaries for 6th & 7th Edition. If you have an RK05 or RL02,
then you can get disk images as part of Bob Supnik's PDP-11 emulator,
at ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/pub/PDP-11-sims/Supnik_2.3
(or a similar URL, I'm typing from memory).
If you don't have RK05 or RL02s, someone should be able to build
a suitable disk image for you. I think you'll need to go 6th Edition
as you have a /23.
Warren
Mahlzeit
According to Warren Toomey:
> If I become the `central repository' for the software, then I'd like to
> set up access procedures which ensure that only legitimate users can access
> the archive, and that eavesdropping or hacking access to the archive
> shouldn't divulge its contents easily.
Isn't ftp for a $200-programm secure enough? I'm doing beta testing
for a programm, which costs $1100 and they distribute the passwords
for ftp by unencrypted mail. They do that allready for a few releases
and I don't think they had any problems with that.
> Keep the archive files encrypted:
>
> - This will stop hackers who penetrate the archive from getting the
> plaintext version of the files. I suggest using PGP with a very
> large key size to encrypt the files. The key won't be kept on the
> archive machine.
I don't think you need a very large key. Everyone, which has the
choice to crack a 512bit key or to pay $200, would choose to pay.
> I'd really like feedback from you about the proposed scheme for providing
> access to this old UNIX software!
I think pgp is to difficult to use for some. You could use a simple
encryption programm like: ftp://isidor.ethz.ch/pub/simpl/safer.V1.1.tar.Z
which should be very portable. The passphrase could be distributed on
the license.
Mahlzeit
endergone Zwiebeltuete
--
insanity inside
>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Thu Aug 7 09:22:07 1997
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199708062322.JAA03135(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: George's PDP Tape in UK
To: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 09:22:07 +1000 (EST)
Cc: George.Coulouris(a)dcs.qmw.ac.uk
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Dear PDP-11 UNIXers,
Just got this back from George Coulouris in the UK. He's got an
old tape with PDP-11 UNIX software on it which he'd like to read:
* In article by George Coulouris:
* > Warren,
* > Thanks for your reply. I'd be happy to liase with anyone who is willing to
* > have a go at reading the tape.
* > George
*
[and later...]
* Did anybody get back to you about reading that old PDP-11 tape, George??
No, I'm afraid not.
I have been told that there is a 9-track tape drive at another centre in
London, but I haven't pursued it 'cos I was waiting for contact from your
people.
George
-------
Can anybody in the UK or Europe who would be happy to read this old tape for
George & for the PUPS archive please email him! His address is
George.Coulouris(a)dcs.qmw.ac.uk
Many thanks in advance,
Warren wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
>From Michael Engel <engel(a)numerik.math.uni-siegen.de> Thu Aug 7 18:39:42 1997
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Subject: Re: George's PDP Tape in UK
To: wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 1997 10:39:42 +0200 (MET DST)
Cc: oldunix(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, George.Coulouris(a)dcs.qmw.ac.uk
In-Reply-To: <199708062322.JAA03135(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> from "Warren Toomey" at Aug 7, 97 09:22:07 am
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Hi,
it seems my mail didn`t come through last time ...
> Just got this back from George Coulouris in the UK. He's got an
> old tape with PDP-11 UNIX software on it which he'd like to read:
>
> * In article by George Coulouris:
> * > Warren,
> * > Thanks for your reply. I'd be happy to liase with anyone who is willing to
> * > have a go at reading the tape.
> * > George
>
> [and later...]
>
> * Did anybody get back to you about reading that old PDP-11 tape, George??
>
> No, I'm afraid not.
>
> I have been told that there is a 9-track tape drive at another centre in
> London, but I haven't pursued it 'cos I was waiting for contact from your
> people.
>
We have a TU81+ 9 track tape connected to a VMS Alpha here. So, if you send
me the tape, I will try to read it. Worked perfectly some months ago for a
10 yr. old tape from a DECsystem 10 ...
regards,
Michael Engel (engel(a)unix-ag.uni-siegen.de)
