Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> writes:
> Some further clues, for anyone who's following this bit or
> archeology:
This is clearly a 4.3BSD-Reno tape (for VAX). I'll look at it when it's
fully uploaded (you're saying it won't be until 19:00 EST, so it'll be
after the X-Files I guess), but I can bet that it's identical to the one in
/usr/home/msokolov/43reno.vax on minnie (read by Rick Copeland from the
CSRG master provided by Marshall Kirk McKusick).
> The second file on the tape has the following string in it:
>
> 4.3 BSD Reno UNIX #1: Sat Jul 28 15:19:06 PDT 1990
> trent@kerberos.berkeley.edu:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC.vaxminiroot
The second file is the dd image of the miniroot filesystem. This string
appears in the /vmunix file inside (the kernel). kerberos.berkeley.edu was
a VAX. The tape in /usr/home/msokolov/43reno.vax has also been pressed from
kerberos.berkeley.edu.
> The third file has this string in it:
>
> 4.3 BSD Reno UNIX #4 Sat Jul 28 13:24:08 PDT 1990
> trent@kerberos.berkeley.edu:/nbsd/usr/src/sys/GENERIC.allvax.
The third file is the dump of the full root filesystem. Again, this
string appears in the /vmunix file inside.
> Additionally, in the third file, there appears to be some printf-type
> strigns for configuring in the different possible CPU's supported:
>
> VAX 8600, serial# %d(%d), hardware level %d(%d)
> VAX 82%c0, hardware rev %d, ucode patch rev %d, sec patch %d, ucode rev %d
> VAX 11/78%c, serial# %d(%d), hardware ECO level %d(%d)
> VAX 11/750, hardware rev %d, ucode rev %d
> VAX 11/730, ucode rev %d
> MicroVAX-II-MicroVAX 3000, ucode rev %d
This is also obviously inside /vmunix. The set of supported CPUs is the
one for Reno.
> So the tape sticker says "Tahoe", the miniroot and Generic root claim
> to be Reno, and the fourth file (the tar archive) has the following
> mentions of Tahoe and Reno:
>
> [names on manpage directories mentioning tahoe]
It is Reno. Trust me. "tahoe" appears in the names of some manpage
directories because some manpages are architecture-specific (tahoe is the
name of a computer architecture, just like vax, hp300, i386, etc.). The
tape is mislabeled, that's all.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular)
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Some further clues, for anyone who's following this bit or
archeology:
The second file on the tape has the following string in it:
4.3 BSD Reno UNIX #1: Sat Jul 28 15:19:06 PDT 1990
trent@kerberos.berkeley.edu:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC.vaxminiroot
The third file has this string in it:
4.3 BSD Reno UNIX #4 Sat Jul 28 13:24:08 PDT 1990
trent@kerberos.berkeley.edu:/nbsd/usr/src/sys/GENERIC.allvax.
Additionally, in the third file, there appears to be some printf-type
strigns for configuring in the different possible CPU's supported:
VAX 8600, serial# %d(%d), hardware level %d(%d)
VAX 82%c0, hardware rev %d, ucode patch rev %d, sec patch %d, ucode rev %d
VAX 11/78%c, serial# %d(%d), hardware ECO level %d(%d)
VAX 11/750, hardware rev %d, ucode rev %d
VAX 11/730, ucode rev %d
MicroVAX-II-MicroVAX 3000, ucode rev %d
So the tape sticker says "Tahoe", the miniroot and Generic root claim
to be Reno, and the fourth file (the tar archive) has the following
mentions of Tahoe and Reno:
$ sear file4.tar_list tahoe
755 0 Jul 29 06:26:47 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/
444 2488 Jul 29 06:26:43 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/ace.0
444 3563 Jul 29 06:26:44 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/autoconf.0
444 1321 Jul 29 06:26:44 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/cons.0
444 6446 Jul 29 06:26:44 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/cy.0
444 4074 Jul 29 06:26:44 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/dr.0
444 2331 Jul 29 06:26:44 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/enp.0
444 4121 Jul 29 06:26:44 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/ik.0
444 2498 Jul 29 06:26:45 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/intro.0
444 386 Jul 29 06:26:45 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/lp.0
444 4427 Jul 29 06:26:45 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/mtio.0
444 9321 Jul 29 06:26:45 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/vd.0
444 3816 Jul 29 06:26:46 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/vx.0
444 2271 Jul 29 06:26:45 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/mem.0
444 2271 Jul 29 06:26:45 1990 share/man/cat4/tahoe/kmem.0
---> share/man/cat4/tahoe/mem.0
755 0 Jul 4 18:49:29 1990 share/man/cat6/tahoe/
$ sear file4.tar_list reno
%SEARCH-I-NOMATCHES, no strings matched
If someone who is more aware of the 4.3BSD histories than I am
(and I'm certain that I'm one of the least-aware folks around!)
can pinpoint where in the hierarchy this tape belongs, it'd help
settle a lot of my confusion!
In the meantime, the FTP connection to minnie seems to be holding
up admirably, and folks will be able to inspect the files for themselves
sometime around 7 PM EST tonight (Saturday here - that's either
tomorrow or yesterday in Australia, I can never remember which)
in the directory
/usr/home/shoppa/43bsd_tahoe
on minnie.
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
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> The problem is that we (PUPS/TUHS) haven't been able to find a Tahoe
>tape with VAX binaries.
I think I *might* be able to provide part of the solution to this. I have
in my posession here a TK50 tape hand-labeled "4.3 Tahoe BSD". Let me upload
it to my directory on Minnie, and maybe with some help from you guys
we'll figure out what's in it.
It has been at least a year since I've looked at the contents of this
tape, but I was under the impression that it consisted mainly of binaries,
and had very little in the way of sources on it. I'll put images of
the tape files on Minnie (hmm - a full TK50 will probably be an overnight
job) and with a little luck we'll figure out how to
make the next step. (I didn't know that this was a sought-after tape
in the first place!)
I honestly don't know if this is a VAX Tahoe distribution or for something
else (MIPS, maybe?). It did fail to boot on my KA650 when I tried it, but
your notes indicate that this was to be expected because it wasn't a KA630.
And browsing through the contents of the tape does seem to indicate that it
might be for the VAX.
The tape has 4 files on it, about 50 Megabytes uncompressed, organized as
follows:
File 1: 1 record, 512 bytes.
File 2: 205 records, 10240 bytes each.
File 3: 320 records, 10240 bytes each.
File 4: 2135 records, 20480 bytes each.
The first block has no obvious text in it. Obvious guess is a boot block :-)
The second file appears to be an executable of some sort. Running
"strings" against it turns up evidence that this is some sort of standalone
utility that knows how to write to devices with names like "ra1", "hp3",
etc.
The third file is, I would guess, the dump of a root file system.
The string "/dev/ra1a" and machine name "kerberos.berkeley.edu" turn
up near the beginning, and the dump of what appears to be the "/dev"
directory has names such as tu0, tu1, hp0a-hp0g, rhp0a-rhp0g, etc.
The fourth file is a tar archive, and appears to contain mainly binaries,
with little in the way of sources. The are links in the tar archive
to things like "/sys/vaxuba", "/sys/vax", etc., but the /sys directory
itself isn't in the tar archive. (Would this possibly be in the third
file, which I guessed is a dump of the root filesystem? The other BSD-
derived distributions that I'm familiar with do not have "/sys" or
"/usr/src/sys" in the root filesystem!)
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
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SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com writes:
> I've been looking over the recent 4.3-ish BSD distributions
> now available from the PUPS archive. Thought I'd spin off
> a copy for booting on one of my spare uVax II's [...]
The most important thing here is to choose the right version of BSD.
Plain 4.3 CANNOT boot on a MicroVAX II. Later versions, starting with
Tahoe, can. The patches provided in 4.3_on_uVax_instructions are nothing
more than pieces taken out of Tahoe. If you are going to use those, you
might want to use the whole Tahoe system just as well, it has some very
nice improvements, such as disk labels, better man mechanism, and MX record
support in sendmail.
The problem is that we (PUPS/TUHS) haven't been able to find a Tahoe
tape with VAX binaries. I'm not sure if CSRG ever bothered to even make
one, although it's as simple as executing one script on a running system
(which they obviously had). Thus in order to run Tahoe, one would have to
cross-compile it first. It's a pain and takes a lot of expertise, so I
would strongly advise you to avoid effort duplication and wait until I do
it and put the product up in my home directory on minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au.
Actually since KA650 is all I have right now and Tahoe doesn't support it
(but the support code appears later in the SCCS tree), I'll go directly
from Ultrix (my cross-compilation base) to Quasijarus1, my first release,
and won't bother with Tahoe. But for all practical purposes Quasijarus1
will be Tahoe plus KA650 support, shadow passwords, and bugfixes.
Hmm, maybe your have never heard of Quasijarus Project, so I'll explain
briefly what it is. I'm taking over UCB CSRG in terms of shepherding and
maintaining pure Berkeley UNIX(R). I will first re-create it by taking
their final SCCS tree and building my initial one, deciding piece by piece
what belongs to pure Berkeley UNIX(R) and should be kept, and what is POSIX
evil spirit or bloat and should be tossed. In general I draw the line right
around the Tahoe release (summer of 1988), but I'll include anything from
Reno and later code that's worth having, such as KA650 support and Reno's
DBM-based shadow password model. Basically, I want to create a system with
a classical (pre-Reno) look and feel which at the same time has all the
quality improvements and bugfixes ever made by Berkeley, even if they are
as late as 4.4BSD. The last classical release is Tahoe, so that's my base.
I will be using Tahoe to decide what should be included and what should the
look and feel be. Once I know from Tahoe that a given piece should be
included, I'll go to the SCCS file(s) for that piece and decide which post-
Tahoe deltas should be kept (because they are bugfixes or quality
improvements) and which deltas should be tossed (because they introduce the
evil spirit of POSIX or bloat).
How soon will this happen? I'm all ready to go, but unfortunately
hardware problems are holding me back. I have solved the KA650 problem I
was having, but now I'm stuck because neither of the two TQK50 boards I
have works. (The drive SEEMS to work, though.) Thus the sooner I find a
working TQK50 board (or, alternatively, a working TK70/TQK70 pair), the
sooner will I make 4.3BSD-Quasijarus1.
> If there's a more appropriate forum for these questions, I'd
> appreciate being redirected to them!
Right now there isn't, because my main VAX farm is currently off the
net. When I get it back on the net (no time estimate, at least several more
months), I'll set up a set of mailing lists for Quasijarus Project and
Berkeley VAX UNIX in general.
> OK, Before Step I, as doucmented in 4.3_on_uVax_instructions, is:
Totally disregard these instructions, they are for plain 4.3 ONLY. If
you are using Tahoe or Quasijarus1, the distribution already supports
MicroVAXen as shipped. If you don't want to use Tahoe or Quasijarus1 and
want to use plain 4.3, you are on your own.
> Is this an actual limitation on the 43reno.vax distribution currently
> in the archive, or not?
Reno doesn't have any limitations, it already supports KA630 and KA650,
just like Quasijarus1. I personally don't use it, though, because it is not
really True UNIX any more. With the evil spirit of POSIX and a bloat by a
factor of 2 in both binaries and sources, Reno is the beginning of the
destructive process that eventually (and necessarily) culminated with the
disbanding of CSRG.
> what non-
> microvax machines will the 43reno.vax distribution boot on? 11/750?
> 11/730?
Of the big VAXen, plain 4.3 supports 11/780, 11/750, 11/730, and Venus
(should have been called 11/790, but was unfortunately named 8600). Tahoe
adds, and Quasijarus1 and Reno retain, the support for 8200.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular)
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I've been looking over the recent 4.3-ish BSD distributions
now available from the PUPS archive. Thought I'd spin off
a copy for booting on one of my spare uVax II's, but I'm stuck
at (literally) before step one, and don't know where to go from here.
If there's a more appropriate forum for these questions, I'd
appreciate being redirected to them!
OK, Before Step I, as doucmented in 4.3_on_uVax_instructions, is:
YOU MUST ALREADY HAVE A WORKING VAX! These instructions are useless on
a cold machine. You must have a 4.3 machine and a working uVax (probably
Ultrix!) with a tk50 drive.
Apparently, this is because the distributions don't boot on a
Microvax, and the KA630 Microvax/MSCP/TMSCP patches must be installed
and many things rebuilt on a 4.3 machine before a distribution tape can
be built to put on a VAX.
Is this an actual limitation on the 43reno.vax distribution currently
in the archive, or not? If it is a real limitation, what non-
microvax machines will the 43reno.vax distribution boot on? 11/750?
11/730?
Tim. (shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com)
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Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,
I'm trying to build my first release (4.3BSD-Quasijarus1), and I have
the following problem. I'm currently away from my main VAX farm, and so I
have rounded up a new VAX for this task from an independent source. It's a
KA650-based MicroVAX specially made for Xerox. The outer cabinet is made by
Xerox, but it has a BA23 mounted inside. There is no video, just a serial
terminal.
My first problem was that the beast refused to power up. I turn on the
power, but there is nothing on the console and the hex LED display on the
back says 9. I power-cycled it several times with zero effect, and then I
took the CPU board out to look at it. It looked perfectly normal, and I put
it back in. Then imagine my joy when I power up the VAX and this time it
works! After that I worked with it for a while, and in the process I turned
it on and off a couple of times and it didn't have any problem powering up.
My next step was installing Ultrix, which is the platform I have chosen
to use for putting together the initial Quasijarus SCCS tree and cross-
compiling the very first Quasijarus build. However, when I tried to boot
from the Ultrix tape, I got a "?4B CTRLERR" (after an _extremely_ long wait
with a lot of retries), which according to my docs means some hardware
error. I reasoned that it has to be either the TK50 drive or the TQK50
controller. I don't have any spare TK50s at this location, but I do have
one spare controller, and so I tried swapping it. I turned the machine off,
swapped the board, and turned it back on. And guess what, that ugly 9 came
back! I haven't been able to power up the VAX since then.
I started investigating. I don't have any docs for KA650, but I do have
some for KA655. According to these docs, the KA650 series CPUs have very
elaborate ROM diagnostics organized in the form of scripts, some of which
are executed at power-up. The manual lists all scripts, indicating the
order of the tests and the hex LED display codes. According to this manual,
the only tests which display a 9 are fairly late in the sequence and are
fairly benign (shouldn't stall the power-up even if failed). The problem
I'm seeing, OTOH, appears to be very early. For example, the console line
loopback test appears to be one of the very first, and yet my VAX always
stalls on the 9, even if I put the switch in the T-in-the-circle position.
I have also watched the hex LED display very carefully right as I flip the
power switch, and as far as I can tell it goes directly from F (waiting for
DCOK) to 9. Finally, disconnecting the bulkhead and the memory interconnect
produces absolutely no effect, suggesting that the culprit is the CPU board
and nothing else. Also pushing the RESTART button on the front panel
produces absolutely no effect, if the 9 was there it just stays there,
there is no F appearing for a short time or anything like that. What does
the RESTART button do, anyway?
Does anyone here have a clue as to what's going on? Does anyone have a
KA650 manual? Can anyone tell what the hell does the 9 stand for? Any ideas
on how this can be fixed (other than replacing the CPU board)? TIA.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular)
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>From Brian D Chase <bdc(a)world.std.com> Fri Nov 20 18:07:44 1998
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Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 00:07:44 -0800 (PDT)
From: Brian D Chase <bdc(a)world.std.com>
To: PUPS Mailing List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Cc: NetBSD/vax Mailing List <port-vax(a)netbsd.org>
Subject: Loads of PDP-11 docs on Ebay.
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Just an FYI for all you PDP-11 collectors out there. A search for "DEC"
under the Computers section of Ebay yields an impressive number of PDP-11
docs.
-brian.
---
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Sat Nov 21 08:57:40 1998
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From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: Brian D Chase <bdc(a)world.std.com>,
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On Friday, 20 November 1998 at 0:07:44 -0800, Brian D Chase wrote:
> Just an FYI for all you PDP-11 collectors out there. A search for "DEC"
> under the Computers section of Ebay yields an impressive number of PDP-11
> docs.
What's Ebay?
Greg
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>From Brian D Chase <bdc(a)world.std.com> Sat Nov 21 09:31:51 1998
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On Sat, 21 Nov 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:
> On Friday, 20 November 1998 at 0:07:44 -0800, Brian D Chase wrote:
> > Just an FYI for all you PDP-11 collectors out there. A search for "DEC"
> > under the Computers section of Ebay yields an impressive number of PDP-11
> > docs.
>
> What's Ebay?
Sorry about that... I'd thought everybody knew by now. It's the world's
largest and most popular on-line auction service. http://www.ebay.com/
-brian.
---
Brian "JARAI" Chase | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ | VAXZilla LIVES!!!
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Dear PUPS/TUHS members,
I have just uploaded the images from the 4.3BSD tapes I had read on
CWRU's MVS mainframe back in June. They are perfect (the 1600 BPI tapes
were read without any errors and the format is absolutely correct). Note,
though, that this is the June 1986 4.3BSD release, and I remember Kirk
saying that among the tapes Rick is reading there is one with 4.3BSD
revision 2, which is presumably 4.3BSD with some bugs fixed.
I have also put an honest effort into reconstructing the 4.2BSD tape
images from the files in Distributions/4bsd/Per_Andersson_4.2. The latter
have the boot/standalone system file (1st on the tape) broken, the tarball
with /usr/src also broken, and the tarball with /usr/lib/vfont simply
missing. I have manually repaired the boot/standalone system file (using my
brain and a hex editor), but unfortunately /usr/src is broken beyond repair
(so I didn't include it in my repackaging). I see no reason for the
Varian/Versatec fonts to change between BSD releases, so /usr/lib/vfont
from 4.3BSD will probably do fine. It would still be nice if Rick could
read Kirk's 4.2BSD tapes, though. For practical use 4.3BSD completely
supersedes it, but for historical purposes we should preserve 4.2BSD as
well.
This stuff is in:
/usr/home/msokolov/42.vax (4.2BSD)
/usr/home/msokolov/43.vax (4.3BSD)
on minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au. (Warren, if you want to put this in the main
PUPS archive, go ahead and do it for 43.vax, as it should be ready to be
frozen, but I would hold on with 42.vax. Hopefully Rick will have some luck
reading Kirk's tapes, and then I'll update the 42.vax directory by filling
the missing pieces.)
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular)
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>From Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> Tue Nov 17 05:14:44 1998
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Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:14:44 -0800
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
From: Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com>
Subject: Re: 4.3BSD-Tahoe and 4.3BSD-Reno
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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Warren,
I am unable to login to minnie, I keep getting back "user rickgc access
denied!". Why?
Thanks,
Rick Copeland
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Dear PUPS/TUHS members,
I have converted the 4.3BSD-Tahoe and 4.3BSD-Reno tape images Rick has recently
uploaded into a more convenient format. I haven't changed anything in the
images themselves, I have simply repacked them from a single .zip into a
collection of .gz's, one per tape file. I have also prepared a listing for
every tarball. This stuff is in:
/usr/home/msokolov/43tahoe.cci (4.3BSD-Tahoe with CCI binaries)
/usr/home/msokolov/43reno.vax (4.3BSD-Reno with VAX binaries)
That's on minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au. The permissions are set up so that pupsarc
group members (UNIX source license holders) can read them, but no one else can.
With Warren's permission, I would like to keep this stuff there until I set up
my own FTP site, at which time I'll announce its location.
The Reno images are perfect, but for Tahoe usr.tar.gz and src.tar.gz are bad
(everything else is fine). Apparently Rick wasn't able to read past a tape
defect (we are handling this in private E-mail).
Have fun with this stuff!
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular)
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Thu Nov 12 14:51:32 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199811120451.PAA05125(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: 4.3BSD-Tahoe and 4.3BSD-Reno
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:51:32 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199811120455.XAA09098(a)skybridge.scl.cwru.edu> from Michael Sokolov at "Nov 11, 98 11:55:23 pm"
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In article by Michael Sokolov:
>I have converted the 4.3BSD-Tahoe and 4.3BSD-Reno tape images Rick has recently
> uploaded into a more convenient format. I haven't changed anything in the
> images themselves, I have simply repacked them from a single .zip into a
> collection of .gz's, one per tape file. I have also prepared a listing for
> every tarball. This stuff is in:
>
> /usr/home/msokolov/43tahoe.cci (4.3BSD-Tahoe with CCI binaries)
> /usr/home/msokolov/43reno.vax (4.3BSD-Reno with VAX binaries)
I'll move copies of Michael's 43tahoe.cci and 43reno.vax directories
into the main PUPS archive area, in the Distributions/4bsd area.
Warren
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