I've got a questions that's been niggling me, and perhaps someone might
be able to answer it.
The csh was first released in 2bsd, and came with the copyright notice:
/* Copyright (c) 1979 Regents of the University of California */
/*
* C Shell
*
* Bill Joy, UC Berkeley
* October, 1978
*/
But my memory tells me that, back in the late 80s, people were saying
that the sources to csh were not freely available. And in the tcsh FAQ
(taken from tcsh version 6.00), I see:
4. Where can I get csh sources?
Csh sources are not public domain. If you do not have an AT&T V3.2
source licence or better, you are stuck.
So, can anybody tell me if, when and how did the sources to csh become
restricted, or if not, how this urban legend arose??
Many thanks in advance!
Warren
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA08168
for pups-liszt; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:26:55 +1100 (EST)
>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Tue Jan 5 15:26:35 1999
Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA08163
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:26:46 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from sms@localhost)
by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id VAA19409;
Mon, 4 Jan 1999 21:26:35 -0800 (PST)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 21:26:35 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199901050526.VAA19409(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Why is csh `restricted'?
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
Warren -
> The csh was first released in 2bsd, and came with the copyright notice:
> /* Copyright (c) 1979 Regents of the University of California */
> /*
> * C Shell
> *
> * Bill Joy, UC Berkeley
> * October, 1978
> */
> Csh sources are not public domain. If you do not have an AT&T V3.2
> source licence or better, you are stuck.
>
> So, can anybody tell me if, when and how did the sources to csh become
> restricted, or if not, how this urban legend arose??
It is not that they "became" restricted. They always "were" restricted
because they were derived from the original Bell Labs (later AT&T)
sources (code borrowed from /bin/sh). All UNIX sources were, up until
you negotiated the deal with SCO, restricted.
For a long time you either had a multi-kilodollar source license
or you didn't run UNIX at all. The binary distributions came a bit
later. Initially when 'csh' was being written you had to have a
source license. Typically you'd pay (if memory serves) $25k or so
(quite a chunk of cash in 1979) for a WesternElectric license, park
the tapes in a rack and send a copy of the license and a check for a
few hundred dollars off to UCB to get the software you really intended
to run ;)
You'll note that the copyright lacks the "may be redistributed ..."
clauses that we typically associate with UCB software. The famous
UCB style of copyright ("copyrighted but redistributable") came
later.
Steven
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA08185
for pups-liszt; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:29:51 +1100 (EST)
>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Jan 5 15:30:25 1999
Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA08180
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:29:44 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from wkt@localhost)
by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA11231;
Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:30:25 +1100 (EST)
(envelope-from wkt)
From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199901050530.QAA11231(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Why is csh `restricted'?
In-Reply-To: <199901050526.VAA19409(a)moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Jan 4, 1999 9:26:35 pm"
To: sms(a)moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:30:25 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
In article by Steven M. Schultz:
> Warren -
>
> > The csh was first released in 2bsd, and came with the copyright notice:
> > /* Copyright (c) 1979 Regents of the University of California */
> > So, can anybody tell me if, when and how did the sources to csh become
> > restricted, or if not, how this urban legend arose??
>
> It is not that they "became" restricted. They always "were" restricted
> because they were derived from the original Bell Labs (later AT&T)
> sources (code borrowed from /bin/sh). All UNIX sources were, up until
> you negotiated the deal with SCO, restricted.
>
> Steven
I didn't know that any of the sources in 1979 2bsd were contaminated with
AT&T sources. I'll go and do a line comparison between V6 sh, V7 sh and
the 2bsd csh, and see if I can find any signs of contamination.
What else in the original 2bsd is contaminated?
Thanks!
Warren
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA08404
for pups-liszt; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:49:27 +1100 (EST)
>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Jan 5 15:50:06 1999
Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA08398
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:49:18 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from wkt@localhost)
by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA11350
for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:50:06 +1100 (EST)
(envelope-from wkt)
From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199901050550.QAA11350(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Why is csh `restricted'?
In-Reply-To: <199901050530.QAA11231(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> from Warren Toomey at "Jan 5, 1999 4:30:25 pm"
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:50:06 +1100 (EST)
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
In article by Warren Toomey:
> In article by Steven M. Schultz:
> > > So, can anybody tell me if, when and how did the sources to csh become
> > > restricted, or if not, how this urban legend arose??
> >
> > It is not that they "became" restricted. They always "were" restricted
> > because they were derived from the original Bell Labs (later AT&T)
> > sources (code borrowed from /bin/sh). All UNIX sources were, up until
> > you negotiated the deal with SCO, restricted.
> >
> > Steven
Steven is right. An investigation into the csh from 2bsd shows that it
is derived from the Mashey shell in 6th Edition UNIX, but not from the
Bourne shell in 7th Edition.
Hmm, I'll have to go and update my UNIX family tree now.
Warren
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id QAA08434
for pups-liszt; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:58:07 +1100 (EST)
>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Tue Jan 5 15:57:01 1999
Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA08429
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:57:58 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from sms@localhost)
by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id VAA19580;
Mon, 4 Jan 1999 21:57:01 -0800 (PST)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 21:57:01 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199901050557.VAA19580(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: sms(a)moe.2bsd.com, wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Why is csh `restricted'?
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
Warren -
> From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
> I didn't know that any of the sources in 1979 2bsd were contaminated with
> AT&T sources. I'll go and do a line comparison between V6 sh, V7 sh and
Indeed they were. ALL sources were considered "contaminated" or
restricted - that's why for years and years the only 2.x (and 4.x) BSD
sites were universities or other companies that had source licenses.
> the 2bsd csh, and see if I can find any signs of contamination.
>
> What else in the original 2bsd is contaminated?
Anything that I (or other contributors) didn't write ourselves.
A good case can be made that stuff ported from 4.4-Lite is not
contaminated (because 4.4-Lite had the legal blessings of AT&T)
but I was told at one time anything based on the Net-2 stuff could be
(is?) contaminated. Alas by the time 4.4-Lite came out the software
had bloated so much that very little of it can be ported over. I
grabbed a few ideas and pieces out of the kernel - that's where the
"sysctl" stuff in 2.11 came from for example. But the mainline
applications are GNU based (megabytes and megabytes of memory assumed).
I'd like to see someone getting GCC to run natively on a PDP-11! <grin>
That's why the SCO "Ancient Unix" license is such a milestone event and
is so important (perhaps more so than some folks realize).
Up until this point you had to have a US$100K budget to gain access
to the software we can legally obtain for $100 (no 'K') now.
Steven
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA08456
for pups-liszt; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:01:18 +1100 (EST)
>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Jan 5 16:01:49 1999
Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA08451
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:01:11 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from wkt@localhost)
by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA11467;
Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:01:49 +1100 (EST)
(envelope-from wkt)
From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199901050601.RAA11467(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Contaminated srcs
In-Reply-To: <199901050557.VAA19580(a)moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Jan 4, 1999 9:57: 1 pm"
To: sms(a)moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:01:49 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
In article by Steven M. Schultz:
> A good case can be made that stuff ported from 4.4-Lite is not
> contaminated (because 4.4-Lite had the legal blessings of AT&T)
> but I was told at one time anything based on the Net-2 stuff could be
> (is?) contaminated. Alas by the time 4.4-Lite came out the software
> had bloated so much that very little of it can be ported over. I
> grabbed a few ideas and pieces out of the kernel - that's where the
> "sysctl" stuff in 2.11 came from for example. But the mainline
> applications are GNU based (megabytes and megabytes of memory assumed).
> I'd like to see someone getting GCC to run natively on a PDP-11! <grin>
>
> Steven
Just a thought: much of the stuff in 16-bit Minix was written by people
on Usenet and donated to Minix. The core stuff of course is owned by
Prentice-Hall, but there are some freely-available programs.
Warren
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA08490
for pups-liszt; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:10:15 +1100 (EST)
>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Tue Jan 5 16:09:48 1999
Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA08485
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:10:07 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from sms@localhost)
by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id WAA19671;
Mon, 4 Jan 1999 22:09:48 -0800 (PST)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 22:09:48 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199901050609.WAA19671(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Why is csh `restricted'?
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
Warren -
Quite a busy night, eh?
> > > sources (code borrowed from /bin/sh). All UNIX sources were, up until
> > > you negotiated the deal with SCO, restricted.
It might also be a good time to clarify that the sources are still
'restricted'. Legally we can share the sources only with other
license holders. However the cost of obtaining the license is vastly
more affordable now than in a previous era.
> Steven is right. An investigation into the csh from 2bsd shows that it
> is derived from the Mashey shell in 6th Edition UNIX, but not from the
> Bourne shell in 7th Edition.
Hmmm, didn't the V7 shell borrow from the V6 shell? Perhaps not
completely "based on" (as in starting from a copy and editing away).
Steven
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA08513
for pups-liszt; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:13:07 +1100 (EST)
>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Jan 5 16:13:39 1999
Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.oz.au [131.236.21.158])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA08502
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:12:58 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from wkt@localhost)
by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA11557;
Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:13:39 +1100 (EST)
(envelope-from wkt)
From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Message-Id: <199901050613.RAA11557(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Why is csh `restricted'?
In-Reply-To: <199901050609.WAA19671(a)moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Jan 4, 1999 10: 9:48 pm"
To: sms(a)moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:13:39 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
In article by Steven M. Schultz:
> Hmmm, didn't the V7 shell borrow from the V6 shell? Perhaps not
> completely "based on" (as in starting from a copy and editing away).
> Steven
No, from what I heard Bourne nearly started from scratch. I did have
a copy of some old Usenet news from John Mashey about the v6 shell; I'll
try to dig it up.
Warren
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA08520
for pups-liszt; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:13:17 +1100 (EST)
>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Tue Jan 5 16:12:41 1999
Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA08508
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:13:01 +1100 (EST)
Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137])
by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id QAA06234;
Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:42:35 +1030 (CST)
Received: (from grog@localhost)
by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id QAA79334;
Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:42:42 +1030 (CST)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 16:42:41 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Cc: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Why is csh `restricted'?
Message-ID: <19990105164241.E78349(a)freebie.lemis.com>
References: <199901050557.VAA19580(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i
In-Reply-To: <199901050557.VAA19580(a)moe.2bsd.com>; from Steven M. Schultz on Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 09:57:01PM -0800
WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog
Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia
Phone: +61-8-8388-8286
Fax: +61-8-8388-8725
Mobile: +61-41-739-7062
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
On Monday, 4 January 1999 at 21:57:01 -0800, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
>> From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>
>> What else in the original 2bsd is contaminated?
>
> Anything that I (or other contributors) didn't write ourselves.
>
> A good case can be made that stuff ported from 4.4-Lite is not
> contaminated (because 4.4-Lite had the legal blessings of AT&T)
> but I was told at one time anything based on the Net-2 stuff could be
> (is?) contaminated.
There has been a lot of confusion on this point. Well, maybe
``disagreement'' would be a better word. Obviously Net-2 contained
almost only stuff written by contributors, though there was, indeed,
some code which had obviously grown out of Seventh Edition code. I
think somebody mentioned something like 13 files in the context of the
lawsuit. I took a look at one (kern_clock.c?), and confirmed that
yes, it looked as if it was derived rather than written from scratch.
On the other hand, there was nothing which AT&T (or the opponent of
the week) could claim to be trade secrets. And IMO none of this could
have been construed to mean that people couldn't use the sources which
were indisputably completely written by UCB and its contributors.
Greg
--
See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers
finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA08605
for pups-liszt; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:54:25 +1100 (EST)
>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Tue Jan 5 16:45:35 1999
Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA08599
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:54:16 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from sms@localhost)
by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id WAA19977
for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 22:45:35 -0800 (PST)
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 22:45:35 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199901050645.WAA19977(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Why is csh `restricted'?
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
Greg -
> From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
>
> There has been a lot of confusion on this point. Well, maybe
> ``disagreement'' would be a better word. Obviously Net-2 contained
Hmmm, I think `confusion' is a better fit. Of course said confusion
does lead to disagreement eventually ;)
> think somebody mentioned something like 13 files in the context of the
I'd heard it was 7 files at one time, then 11. It's a fairly
small number _but_ the exact list was never disclosed (part of the
settlement I understand). Without a list of files the fear (at the
time) was that "the enemy" could come after you claiming derivation
of some work from the forbidden files. Since you didn't know what
files those were it was hard (impossible) to know what you could or
couldn't use.
> the week) could claim to be trade secrets. And IMO none of this could
> have been construed to mean that people couldn't use the sources which
> were indisputably completely written by UCB and its contributors.
I'm not a lawyer (and don't even play one on the Net;))... That's
how you and I (nonlawyer types) think. The sentiment at the time
was that up until 4.4-Lite was declared "uncontaminated" there was
a danger of being legally targeted for using Net-1 and Net-2.
The point is moot now today because all manner of alternatives
(FreeBSD for example) exist. That ready availability may have been
a big factor in SCO's allowing inexpensive access to the "original"
sources (albeit under 'license' rather than "freely available").
Steven
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id SAA08664
for pups-liszt; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:17:15 +1100 (EST)
>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Tue Jan 5 17:16:39 1999
Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA08659
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 18:17:05 +1100 (EST)
Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137])
by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id RAA06480;
Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:46:39 +1030 (CST)
Received: (from grog@localhost)
by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id RAA79676;
Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:46:40 +1030 (CST)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 17:46:39 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Why is csh `restricted'?
Message-ID: <19990105174639.G78349(a)freebie.lemis.com>
References: <199901050645.WAA19977(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Mailer: Mutt 0.95.1i
In-Reply-To: <199901050645.WAA19977(a)moe.2bsd.com>; from Steven M. Schultz on Mon, Jan 04, 1999 at 10:45:35PM -0800
WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog
Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia
Phone: +61-8-8388-8286
Fax: +61-8-8388-8725
Mobile: +61-41-739-7062
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
On Monday, 4 January 1999 at 22:45:35 -0800, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
> Greg -
>
>> From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
>>
>> There has been a lot of confusion on this point. Well, maybe
>> ``disagreement'' would be a better word. Obviously Net-2 contained
>
> Hmmm, I think `confusion' is a better fit. Of course said confusion
> does lead to disagreement eventually ;)
We can agree (or is that defuse?) about that.
>> think somebody mentioned something like 13 files in the context of the
>
> I'd heard it was 7 files at one time, then 11. It's a fairly
> small number _but_ the exact list was never disclosed (part of the
> settlement I understand). Without a list of files the fear (at the
> time) was that "the enemy" could come after you claiming derivation
> of some work from the forbidden files. Since you didn't know what
> files those were it was hard (impossible) to know what you could or
> couldn't use.
Well, here's an extract from BSDI's announcement dated 8 Feb 1994:
> This broadcast message addresses many of the questions that have arrived
> in my mailbox in the last few days.
>
> Q: After this lawsuit resolution, is BSDI still in business?
> A: You bet. And we're shipping 1.1 early next week.
>
> Q: The press release was unclear, do I get to keep my current copy
> of BSD/386?
> A: The answer is yes! BSDI is not recalling prior versions.
> Any USA domestic customer whose support was valid through December,
> 1993 will be shipped the new V1.1 release. I will be mailing a paper
> letter to each USA domestic customer detailing their service contract
> status and verifying the V1.1 shipping address.
>
> Q: What's all this about `binary-only files'? Will BSDI continue to
> ship source code?
> A: For Version 1.1 only, BSDI will ship the following kernel files
> in binary format:
>
> kern/init_main.c kern/subr_rmap.c ufs/ufs_bmap.c
> kern/kern_clock.c kern/sys_generic.c ufs/ufs_disksubr.c
> kern/kern_exit.c kern/sys_process.c ufs/ufs_inode.c
> kern/kern_physio.c kern/tty.c ufs/ufs_vnops.c
> kern/kern_sig.c kern/tty_subr.c
> kern/kern_synch.c kern/vfs_syscalls.c
OK, so it was 16, not 13. And yes, they didn't say that these were
the ones, but I did look at one and saw the similarities.
> Q: I noticed your signature changed. Did you get promoted?
> A: Yes, we now have a full-time president. Me!
>
> Rob Kolstad
> President, BSDI
Well, some things just keep changing.
Greg
--
See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers
finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA10066
for pups-liszt; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 02:30:57 +1100 (EST)
>From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Wed Jan 6 01:24:00 1999
Received: from seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu [152.1.88.4])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA10061
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 02:30:47 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from rdkeys@localhost)
by seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27132;
Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:24:00 -0500 (EST)
(envelope-from rdkeys)
From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199901051524.KAA27132(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Why is csh `restricted'?
In-Reply-To: <199901050645.WAA19977(a)moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "Jan 4, 99 10:45:35 pm"
To: sms(a)moe.2bsd.com (Steven M. Schultz)
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:24:00 -0500 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
> > think somebody mentioned something like 13 files in the context of the
>
> I'd heard it was 7 files at one time, then 11. It's a fairly
> small number _but_ the exact list was never disclosed (part of the
> settlement I understand). Without a list of files the fear (at the
> time) was that "the enemy" could come after you claiming derivation
> of some work from the forbidden files. Since you didn't know what
> files those were it was hard (impossible) to know what you could or
> couldn't use.
INet Dunce Cap firmly attached, in case my greymatters are vaporware....
I though I remembered seeing in one of the varieties of the 386BSD-0.0,
386BSD-0.1, FreeBSD-1.1, FreeBSD-1.1.5.1 (don't ask where, because I
really don't remember exactly), a subtree with a README and the original
7 files (yes, I counted them and it was 7). Now, that makes me want to
backtrack to find that and see what exactly was different. Vague memory
suggests it may have been in the 1.1.5.1 suite, since that was about the
time of the great territorial Unix Wars of old......
> I'm not a lawyer (and don't even play one on the Net;))... That's
> how you and I (nonlawyer types) think. The sentiment at the time
> was that up until 4.4-Lite was declared "uncontaminated" there was
> a danger of being legally targeted for using Net-1 and Net-2.
That was where the shift from the 1 release level to the 2 release level
came in. Sadly, I was not really paying much attention to it all going
by on the net back then, since I was tied up in AIX boxen. But, I did
run across that interesting subtree and those 7 magic files, one time.
Now, where DID I see them......
> The point is moot now today because all manner of alternatives
> (FreeBSD for example) exist. That ready availability may have been
> a big factor in SCO's allowing inexpensive access to the "original"
> sources (albeit under 'license' rather than "freely available").
>
> Steven
I am glad it all came to pass. But, it is still fun to peruse the odd
bits here and there, and sometimes real history or insights pop up.
If all goes well, another minor bit of history may pop up shortly.
With the graces of Dennis Ritchie, I rekeyed in the V1 manuals in
roff source, in case anyone still has a model KSR37 sitting around
with a box full of paper, roff, and too much time to burn. It is complete,
now, but needs some editorial fixings since the OCR came through rather
bad. I made the suggestion that he allow us to put a copy in the UHS
archives. It may appear on his web page when the editorial fixings
get done, and hopefully, minnie, too.
Bob
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id CAA10122
for pups-liszt; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 02:48:35 +1100 (EST)
>From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Wed Jan 6 01:41:47 1999
Received: from seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu [152.1.88.4])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id CAA10117
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 6 Jan 1999 02:48:25 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from rdkeys@localhost)
by seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (8.8.8/8.8.8) id KAA27177;
Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:41:47 -0500 (EST)
(envelope-from rdkeys)
From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199901051541.KAA27177(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: OK I got this here VAXen thingie.... what is it?
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Date: Tue, 5 Jan 1999 10:41:47 -0500 (EST)
Cc: bsdbob(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (Robert D. Keys)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL38 (25)]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
OK, Dummy here stuck his foot in his choppers an' won the bid on that
VAXen for the grand total of eleven buckeroos de realme. What can I
run with it? It was just too much fun to pass up, and it drew too many
chuckles from the PC crowd in the surplus warehouse....(:+}}....
Machine: VAXstation 3500, no consoles or external boxes, only the tower.
Tape Drive: TK70
Hard Drive: RA70
Boards:
SLOT BOARD NUMBER DESCRIPTION
---- ------------ ----------------------------------------------
1 KA650 -BA
2 MS650 -AA
3 MS650 -AA
4 DELQA -SA
5 VCB02
6 VCB02
7 VCB02
8 CXY08
9 TQK70
10 KDA50
11 KDA50
12 (empty)
What are the above boards, for reference?
What boards are needed to bring up the machine minimally and test it out?
How should one fire it up the first time, without blowing it up?
I am working with the original owner of the beast to see if he may have
a box of odd manuals and hopefully tapes still in storage somewhere.
If not, I am at ground zero with it.
I am assuming it will have to be run headless, via an old VT-52ish
Zenith terminal I have, or a Kermit with VT-100 emulation. I don't
have the main color monitor for it, or the mouse and keyboard.
What is the pinout of the silly MMJ connector on the CPU?
Will a plain terminal work OK?
What kinds of printer can be hooked up to it, via what protocols?
What is the best way to network it into my local home ethernet coax?
Any suggestions are appreciated.
Thanks
Bob Keys
On 3 Jan 1999, Mirian Crzig Lennox wrote:
> Last month, there was some discussion about getting Sun to release the
> sources to old SunOS 4.1 under the Ancient UNIX source licence. I'm
> curious as to what progress has been made on that. I'm
> enthusiastically looking forward to hopefully being able to run
> SunOS-4.1.3 with full source on an old Sun 3/80.
Have you tried the Sun 3 port of NetBSD?
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id IAA02037
for pups-liszt; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 08:53:45 +1100 (EST)
>From Mirian Crzig Lennox <mirian(a)xensei.com> Mon Jan 4 07:52:16 1999
Received: from trantor.cosmic.com (xensei-PPP-0227.xensei.com [207.31.197.27])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA02032
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 08:53:33 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from mirian@localhost)
by trantor.cosmic.com (8.8.7/8.8.4)
id QAA18338; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 16:52:17 -0500
From: Mirian Crzig Lennox <mirian(a)xensei.com>
To: "Erin W. Corliss" <erin(a)coffee.corliss.net>
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS source
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990103134337.31034A-100000(a)coffee.corliss.net>
Original-Sender: mirian(a)xensei.com
Organization: The Cosmic Computing Corporation of Alpha Centauri
Date: 03 Jan 1999 16:52:16 -0500
In-Reply-To: "Erin W. Corliss"'s message of "Sun, 3 Jan 1999 13:48:20 -0800 (PST)"
Message-ID: <m3lnjk81nz.fsf(a)trantor.cosmic.com>
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
"Erin W. Corliss" <erin(a)coffee.corliss.net> writes:
> On 3 Jan 1999, Mirian Crzig Lennox wrote:
>
> > Last month, there was some discussion about getting Sun to release the
> > sources to old SunOS 4.1 under the Ancient UNIX source licence. I'm
> > curious as to what progress has been made on that. I'm
> > enthusiastically looking forward to hopefully being able to run
> > SunOS-4.1.3 with full source on an old Sun 3/80.
>
> Have you tried the Sun 3 port of NetBSD?
Oh, NetBSD is a very nice Berkeley UNIX, to sure... I'm just looking
forward to being able to play around with good olde-fashioned SunOS.
Call it nostalgia, or something like that. :)
--
Mirian Crzig Lennox Systems Anarchist
"There's a New World Order coming every minute.
Make mine extra cheese."
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id JAA02089
for pups-liszt; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 09:09:47 +1100 (EST)
>From "Erin W. Corliss" <erin(a)coffee.corliss.net> Mon Jan 4 08:11:30 1999
Received: from coffee.corliss.net (erin(a)coffee.gta-tech.com.121.7.12.in-addr.arpa [12.7.121.245] (may be forged))
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA02084
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 09:09:38 +1100 (EST)
Received: from localhost (erin@localhost)
by coffee.corliss.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA31265
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 14:11:30 -0800
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 14:11:30 -0800 (PST)
From: "Erin W. Corliss" <erin(a)coffee.corliss.net>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: ...
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.990103140148.31189A-100000(a)coffee.corliss.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
Anyone care to comment on the likelihood of someone being able to modify
the kernel binary for Unix version 7 so that it treats a 60 megabyte RD52
drive like an array of six RL drives?
I looked at the device-specific assembly code in boot blocks for the two
drives and it seems that besides the geometry they're pretty similar... I
assume, of course, that the binary license doesn't allow me to disassemble
or modify the kernel, tho.
I also recently solved the disk image dilemma -- I made a utility in
Visual Basic that lets you examine, import, and export files on various
disk images. The disk-specific parts are in interchangeable ActiveX
modules -- right now I only have code for RK06 disk images with Unix 6 or
RSTS file systems, but the model is easily expandable to any
drive/filesystem combination. I'll put it on my web site if anyone's
interested...
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id KAA02281
for pups-liszt; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 10:19:04 +1100 (EST)
>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Mon Jan 4 09:18:07 1999
Received: from allegro.lemis.com (allegro.lemis.com [192.109.197.134])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA02276
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 10:18:38 +1100 (EST)
Received: from freebie.lemis.com (freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137])
by allegro.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) with ESMTP id JAA29033;
Mon, 4 Jan 1999 09:48:05 +1030 (CST)
Received: (from grog@localhost)
by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.1/8.9.0) id JAA70032;
Mon, 4 Jan 1999 09:48:07 +1030 (CST)
Message-ID: <19990104094807.X66110(a)freebie.lemis.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 09:48:07 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au, Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Yet Another Apout Version
References: <199901031151.WAA26388(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
X-Mailer: Mutt 0.91.1i
In-Reply-To: <199901031151.WAA26388(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>; from Warren Toomey on Sun, Jan 03, 1999 at 10:51:45PM +1100
WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog
Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia
Phone: +61-8-8388-8286
Fax: +61-8-8388-8725
Mobile: +61-41-739-7062
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
On Sunday, 3 January 1999 at 22:51:45 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
> Hmm,
> The tarball of Apout that I put up for ftp had a file missing,
> and a serious bug which caused 2.11BSD ls -l to go into an infinite loop.
> I've removed this version and placed a new version of Apout in:
>
> ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Sims/Apout/
>
> Things are looking good. With a small bit of manual help, I was
> able to run make in 2.11BSD /usr/src/bin, which rebuilds all of
> the binaries in /bin.
How long did it take, on what kind of machine?
Greg
--
See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers
finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id LAA02475
for pups-liszt; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:24:26 +1100 (EST)
>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mon Jan 4 10:18:11 1999
Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA02469
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:24:16 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from sms@localhost)
by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.0/8.9.0) id QAA18722
for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 16:18:11 -0800 (PST)
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 1999 16:18:11 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199901040018.QAA18722(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: ...
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
Hi -
> From: "Erin W. Corliss" <erin(a)coffee.corliss.net>
>
> Anyone care to comment on the likelihood of someone being able to modify
> the kernel binary for Unix version 7 so that it treats a 60 megabyte RD52
> drive like an array of six RL drives?
Not likely at all. Completely different controllers - the only
similarity between an RL controller and an MSCP (RQDX3 for example)
controller lies in their both being Qbus cards and disks are attached
to them. The RL is about as smart as a rock - it can't even do
spiral reads/writes (even the RK05 could do that), so there's code
present to break transfers up into multiple pieces if cylinder and side
boundaries are crossed. Also the RL is a "traditional" device in
that the driver calculates sector/track/cylinder and stuffs those
values into registers. With MSCP you have to build command and response
ring buffers, fill in a packet with rather badly documented values,
and then poke the controller to go look for its new packet. The
geometry calculations are done in the controller not the driver.
The only concept of geometry that MSCP drivers have is "how many
sectors does the drive have" (and even then that value's only used to
pretty print something when the drive is first accessed) - somewhat
like SCSI in that aspect.
Then too the RD52 is 30MB (sect/trak = 18, tracks/cyl = 7, cyl = 480).
The RD53 is ~70mb and the RD54 is ~159mb.
It'd be easier to add an MSCP driver to V7 than it would be
to try and do binary edits on the RL driver to support non-RL devices.
Ick.
> I looked at the device-specific assembly code in boot blocks for the two
> drives and it seems that besides the geometry they're pretty similar... I
They're about as different as can be. I think you were lulled into
thinking they're similar by the fact that most of the bootblock is
"boiler plate" (the filesystem search code to look for /boot). The
part that deals with the device is small but quite dissimilar.
The bootblock is the least/smallest part of the problem. All the boot-
block does is load /boot - and that's where you need a more fullfeatured
(but still not as full as the kernel's) driver. Then once there's
a standalone driver for a device in /boot then, and only then, does
the kernel become involved (at which time a full driver is needed).
> assume, of course, that the binary license doesn't allow me to disassemble
> or modify the kernel, tho.
The A.U. license provides full up source - no need to disassemble
anything - that can be modified to whatever extent is desired. That
won't solve the problem of getting a MSCP driver into V7 unless one
can do the development work using a simulator.
Steven Schultz
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA06247
for pups-liszt; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 06:48:52 +1100 (EST)
>From Billy Stivers <alyosha(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM> Tue Jan 5 05:47:03 1999
Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id GAA06242
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 5 Jan 1999 06:48:42 +1100 (EST)
Received: from Corp.Sun.COM ([129.145.35.78]) by mercury.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/mail.byaddr) with SMTP id LAA18859; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:48:02 -0800
Received: from vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM by Corp.Sun.COM (SMI-8.6/SMI-5.3)
id LAA14535; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:48:01 -0800
Received: from vrytekai (vrytekai [129.145.71.165])
by vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA05888;
Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:47:03 -0800 (PST)
Message-Id: <199901041947.LAA05888(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM>
Date: Mon, 4 Jan 1999 11:47:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Billy Stivers <alyosha(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM>
Reply-To: Billy Stivers <alyosha(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS source
To: erin(a)coffee.corliss.net, mirian(a)xensei.com
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-MD5: 7SK+ImZBXKMmaeX/roFFdg==
X-Mailer: dtmail 1.3.0 CDE Version 1.3 SunOS 5.7 sun4u sparc
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
These efforts aren't dead. :) They just took vacation with me, for the
last week and a half or so. I'll try to report some news sometime during
the following week or two, though with the mess of work that popped
up in my absence, I'm not sure whether I'd be that optimistic. :/
--Billy
>From: Mirian Crzig Lennox <mirian(a)xensei.com>
>To: "Erin W. Corliss" <erin(a)coffee.corliss.net>
>Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
>Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS source
>Original-Sender: mirian(a)xensei.com
>Date: 03 Jan 1999 16:52:16 -0500
>
>"Erin W. Corliss" <erin(a)coffee.corliss.net> writes:
>
>> On 3 Jan 1999, Mirian Crzig Lennox wrote:
>>
>> > Last month, there was some discussion about getting Sun to release the
>> > sources to old SunOS 4.1 under the Ancient UNIX source licence. I'm
>> > curious as to what progress has been made on that. I'm
>> > enthusiastically looking forward to hopefully being able to run
>> > SunOS-4.1.3 with full source on an old Sun 3/80.
>>
>> Have you tried the Sun 3 port of NetBSD?
>
>Oh, NetBSD is a very nice Berkeley UNIX, to sure... I'm just looking
>forward to being able to play around with good olde-fashioned SunOS.
>Call it nostalgia, or something like that. :)
>
>--
>Mirian Crzig Lennox Systems Anarchist
> "There's a New World Order coming every minute.
> Make mine extra cheese."
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a
"Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
Hmm,
The tarball of Apout that I put up for ftp had a file missing,
and a serious bug which caused 2.11BSD ls -l to go into an infinite loop.
I've removed this version and placed a new version of Apout in:
ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Sims/Apout/
Things are looking good. With a small bit of manual help, I was
able to run make in 2.11BSD /usr/src/bin, which rebuilds all of
the binaries in /bin.
I've even (nearly) been able to build the GENERIC 2.11BSD kernel
in /sys/GENERIC, but I get:
# make
....
ld -X -i -o unix scb.o mch_backup.o mch_click.o mch_copy.o .....
sys_process.o syscalls.o ufs_mount.o -Z hk.o init_main.o kern_prot.o
tty_pty.o quota_kern.o quota_subr.o quota_ufs.o vm_swp.o vm_swap.o
vm_proc.o -Z ht.o tm.o ts.o -Z tmscp.o tmscpdump.o -Z rl.o
mch_fpsim.o ingreslock.o ufs_disksubr.o -Z rx.o kern_sysctl.o
vm_sched.o vm_text.o -Z kern_pdp.o kern_xxx.o ufs_syscalls2.o mem.o
ufs_subr.o rk.o sys_pipe.o kern_sig2.o toy.o subr_log.o -Z -Z
-Z -Z -Z -Z -Y vers.o -lkern param.o
Undefined:
_proc
_file
_text
*** Exit 1
Stop.
# ls -l unix
-rw------- 1 root 195480 Jan 3 03:41 unix
Steven, any ideas as to the problem? I had to do two operations manually
(using 32-bit native tools):
sh ../conf/newvers.sh
/bin/ed - param.s < ../conf/:comm-to-bss
Cheers all,
Warren
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id EAA01186
for pups-liszt; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 04:17:03 +1100 (EST)
>From Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET> Mon Jan 4 03:16:23 1999
Received: from harrier.Uznet.NET (harrier.ml.org [193.220.92.194])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id EAA01181
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 04:16:50 +1100 (EST)
Received: from dosdev (pm7-94.dial.qual.net [205.212.2.94])
by harrier.Uznet.NET (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA04342
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 22:16:30 +0500
Message-Id: <199901031716.WAA04342(a)harrier.Uznet.NET>
From: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET>
Date: 3 Jan 1999 17:16:23 GMT
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Time machine
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
Dear PUPS/TUHS members,
Have you ever wished to have a time machine? Have you ever wished to travel
back to 1988, to the time when 4.3BSD-Tahoe was the latest release and the SCCS
deltas corresponding to it were the most recent deltas? Well, at least I do.
Although unfortunately real time travel is still limited to the X-Files, I have
come up with a pretty good approximation, a time machine program. This program
turns the Universe clock backwards on a given SCCS file, pruning it down to a
given delta, specified either as an SID or as a delta serial number. The bulk
of the work is done by the SCCS rmdel command. This command, however, can only
delete one delta at a time and still leaves an audit trail in the delta table.
My package consists of a shell script and two C programs that compensate these
deficiencies. The result is that the SCCS file becomes byte-for-byte identical
to the one that existed at the time you have chosen, just like with a real time
machine!
I include this package below as a uuencoded gzipped tarball. See the README
file inside.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET
Enclosure: uuencoded tmachine.tar.gz:
begin 644 tmachine.tar.gz
M'XL(`)3,CS8``.T9:V_;-K!?S5]Q29TFSN+8DE]`TQ08DA8HT&Y`TWY*@U66
M:)NS)`HD'<];\]]W1UJVE*1MMB(QMN@`P]+I>&^2=^2[8,I'(N9/[A$`H-_M
M`O[[[7:;_@%ZGOLG\+L^4O2[G4&[WQETZ6NOYS^!^]2I`@=!'#^'9!KQV`2Q
MT`:,$HE],\.8L<*7$MEAR&IA",U?H2E+P\LTK,CM>8EWB4/QPW6J37OH_PWO
M7_U\^N[5_<KXSOSW/42Z^8^/O0ZBNH-!MYK_#P$?)AR,2#@D03@1*8<L"*?!
MF$,H4XV36(,<@2&BG$!/>!R##I7(#`1I!&8NX81E2HY5D.B#TG)@OQ?G,Z!`
MS>$$<GH(%`>1&IY&'&DE##D3Z:6<XMMP8467),HT7AQ`*@U$0O'0Q(N<;*:Y
M.F3LM5`H.)1)AMN:_5`0AJ1JEJ8B'<-N@EO?KE4H!1X)<XN9S`D]`)WQ4(P6
M-(ZH0JE(-L0R#(Q`3\%(*C<>G3$4::`$U["0,Y@$EQQ^GVG#0L4#@U:13W+R
M($I$:C&*?`1G)R=GI'N"*&UUNSTZ0K-4S@$Y1@MR&MJ^Q=@'7$EG*K6</Z;B
MDBMT=8A*3F&(`^>!BC">*`_&^#%UTFCW/R"O/,?E>BW'3%I&MI!3BZA:^I#H
M(`ZT^<T&D['YA*LB9NDD,IP4H`_@/I`?YD%J2-,IY]DAO,&=`GU"P<Y'H6,T
M<(%#%335V9M30!\U@S-\W<.P$8+\A(]+:5R)((9TE@RY.F"*$R.#=L6+AO/<
MRCR8"TR@(;I11DM1(88PPG#&"TNKUC08099(1-!(#<NH8<H%B4O)(**!<#@,
MIA[I2`\^F69*,HG>\F88[`2M$)CK&-MLD4\IJ<084R4NQL%.&.L]8VX9P];\
M@Q$1X/[M4F?7S:1(ILAE."/7CL@*8N8<9H)A3)F#LV&6\NB0G?*8&TNA<VL=
M4XH7,=.8W-KZ:XYQ6<T-%(7>GL5&'U:[\W\<2O7:/<GXSO[?\;Q5_3_P!STB
M[WN=:O]_"'@JTC">11Q>:!,)>3AYR=BE%+A#!2+>2_2XP<))H&`?'X_87ZPV
MRF9&TP?<%$W$E6H<L1K_0Y@]#Y^N&&[>N+8'(MT+U#C$!4V-+QL62>]'2V[[
MA+;\7K]Y^PKVM5O]]BD/\\>`^&-NTCO*(!;#A1:X%./2CPC'"1'Y<XQKTWG/
M\R^.&)*/P&H`6\?0@R]?K"+G_L5Y^X)0N\W=(M)SR&`7GCV[CE2[#5:K67]L
ME_HA+%/P*<KW:RO_4[I-#EE*S]D<6]X-0'MKU@8XAC:2U=`2?`R,%#DY_`0^
M<;A"K\:X+A>'>':(?2Q06V)6LR[$+R.9\=1Q\RX.8%NM%%I2',,O']^^)9LR
M#)]4.2V1Y?XO\^D0G_F*SYKH=E8=QZH8OS*_[C5^9<K;F7:)J:,?C3FF('G[
M`-<1'_.!!C:^;9E3'!-D&?]/[;9G4\`BEZ&>%$*=1W>UXRY#2Z7;WM&1"Z;-
MN\@L,E0EPLB<^]T+"A(E:V33E%[NIO,M2M]-:VVU_H[:/ZJ%UF&0CI9CMTF/
M"'9"V-&PLU_X1=L'\*S@$'I#/S3@!73NJN66S7?G8">;9LFQ=:CE41MB438E
M<IPEZVEB::UL.^%.[63>TD:%2;9G=2&-&DO&R[GGHE1B:KE>L9O\G`&9PNB.
M]M9+U?:.1O67W(E!*47N[/C;/%]*@.-5`J!=>0(0DN_>=,L56VM:G%^D;F35
M)6]2?HZP0]#<K0XVP=U[;E\1561$>,5MO]&FA7_3.UD%_P;RFOX^96!!-^CU
MOG[^.^AWEO6?U_7Z]ORWWZG.?QX$GFZUAB)MZ0E["KB9I6/7,8YD',LYM;FT
MSFCJ;C,I7`?O^O[5V89K'U<G+/9(A$?,GFP<MV9:M0@5MRR"V5ZUB+:(XCGS
M<6LB$]Y*M)S*6%ZV\@QM%6A*Y\I?'5`^RJX7SZ7J'M1]0-*LM>Y_ZG6'62US
MB&%A9HD]V^Y3*P]4(a)(D4/J.=-SE\9I%DM;H[S6FJ.A'7/49M.4LNUZQ\5B\=
M>J^Y%:5_QFUS20\OB8]*H#FZF]Z31$;0Q;X+A]7=.5/S3WHI54GEP_;[R;'O
M]']>O]W+Y[_O]?M$/NCWJOG_$+#Q_H^^%/JYK_9P_KHR+U\J?:,+N]Y=>:Z'
M6-5B1&/-R5_NL4G0*\NP4"Q86>PA;G0.5E.=:^=JX5OUT_^\'["\HS)O5^-'
M-XK\_6]4^:OZWK]K?5\LYUV);(.PMM.]KW4KU_OKJIR,?5\T%M6GFX%LIG`?
M2V7:5#R1ESQR)Z`Z5Z)<GY?2X<<J[OF$.MB]-4=2<;7:%C*M7#IOL/_;]/I3
M0045;`ZJ^__'#=7]?W7_7]W_5_?_U?W_XX3J_O]QP\;/?ZK[_^K^O[K_K^[_
MJ_O_ZOZ_@@>'ZO[_<4-U_U_=_U?W_X\7-M[_5??_U?U_=?^_L?O_OP%(*:`Y
$`$```/Z_
`
end
Received: (from major@localhost)
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) id GAA01508
for pups-liszt; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 06:21:26 +1100 (EST)
>From Mirian Crzig Lennox <mirian(a)xensei.com> Mon Jan 4 05:20:02 1999
Received: from trantor.cosmic.com (xensei-PPP-0227.xensei.com [207.31.197.27])
by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA01503
for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Mon, 4 Jan 1999 06:21:13 +1100 (EST)
Received: (from mirian@localhost)
by trantor.cosmic.com (8.8.7/8.8.4)
id OAA17969; Sun, 3 Jan 1999 14:20:03 -0500
From: Mirian Crzig Lennox <mirian(a)xensei.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Ancient SunOS source
References: <199812161520.KAA28340(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Original-Sender: mirian(a)xensei.com
Organization: The Cosmic Computing Corporation of Alpha Centauri
Date: 03 Jan 1999 14:20:02 -0500
In-Reply-To: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys"'s message of "Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:20:18 -0500 (EST)"
Message-ID: <m31zlccgf1.fsf(a)trantor.cosmic.com>
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
Last month, there was some discussion about getting Sun to release the
sources to old SunOS 4.1 under the Ancient UNIX source licence. I'm
curious as to what progress has been made on that. I'm
enthusiastically looking forward to hopefully being able to run
SunOS-4.1.3 with full source on an old Sun 3/80.
--
Mirian Crzig Lennox Systems Anarchist
"There's a New World Order coming every minute.
Make mine extra cheese."
All,
Welcome to 1999, I hope you all had a good Christmas and New Year.
I've just released a new version of my Apout PDP-11 simulator at
ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Sims/Apout/
The 6th/7th Edition stuff is untouched, but the emulator can now run
a significant number of binaries from 2.11BSD: /bin/sh, make, the C
compiler, most of /bin and /usr/bin. I've been able to rebuild both
ls and sh from the sources.
Although the emulated 2.11BSD environment isn't complete, its enough
to be nearly useful!
Cheers all,
Warren
