- TUHS - www.tuhs.org

by Adam Erickson

23 years, 2 months

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by John Holden

Warren wrote :- >I think the phrase `successor systems' covers PWB, as PWB is derived >from 6th Edition. Yes, I suppose we could ask for Mini-UNIX, PWB, >Mert, RT and TS also to be added to the list. I'd really like to get my hands on MERT, but past correspondence from DMR suggests that it was probably never released outside the labs. So, are there any tapes lying about?

23 years, 2 months

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[pups] ersatz11

by John Willis

Any hints on making the v7_rk05_1145 boot image work with Ersatz11 v3 demo? John Perkins Willis Software Engineer/Database Architect Ariel Technologies (505) 524-6860 jwillis(a)arielusa.com

23 years, 2 months

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Re: [pups] Re: PWB licensing

by Warren Toomey

In article by Fred N. van Kempen: > Isn't PWB more closely related to USG and/or Sys III ? > --f SysIII is related to PWB and TS, which means both PWB and TS came before SysIII and so are covered by the Caldera license. I still have a number of PWB `things' in the archive: supposed releases, parts of releases, etc. I need to sit down one day and try to reconstitute a canonical release set from these bits and pieces. Warren

23 years, 2 months

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[pups] Re: PWB licensing

by Warren Toomey

In article by Lars Buitinck: > ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixArchive/COPYRIGHTS > says "See Caldera-license.pdf for [Caldera's] license conditions > for thrse [sic] systems," where "these systems" includes PWB. > The Caldera license doesn't even mention PWB. It's (apparently) > still illegal to copy PWB (unless they consider it a version of > V6?). I don't think they'll prosecute you for it (:-) but I'd > change it anyway. > Lars I think the phrase `successor systems' covers PWB, as PWB is derived from 6th Edition. Yes, I suppose we could ask for Mini-UNIX, PWB, Mert, RT and TS also to be added to the list. Cheers, Warren P.S I'll fix thrse at least :)

23 years, 2 months

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pdp11/34 in catania, italy

by Asbesto Molesto

hi all, here's asbesto from FreakNet Medialab in Catania, Italy. our pdp11/34 is still alive !!! the local mayor and the municipalty shutted down electric power in our old place. now we have a new place for our computers (here in italy we have a really bad politic situation so the municipalty hate us) the pdp11 was so cutted in parts and mounted again, and it seem working ... only a weird sound come from the rl01 disk when working. it SEEM the sound of the disk head "touching" the disk .. maybe ? the disk is ok and a copy test of all files is working. any idea ? :) p.s. soon i will ask HELP to install any kind of UNIX on this pdp11/34: we have no tape. only 8" floppy disks and the rl01 (and, of course, serial port for terminal & printer) sorry for my bad english, i'm very tired now to know more about us, http://www.freaknet.org gabriele "asbesto"

23 years, 2 months

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Re: [pups] missing space in 2.11_rp_unknown

by Christian Groessler

Hi, On 03/03/2002 01:47:34 AM PST "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > > Glad to hear you're current and are not seeing 'df' weirdness. You > may want to upgrade P11 to 2.9 though - that would, I think, have > fixed that problem before you saw it ;) No, wouldn't :-) I used 2.10a all the time. regards, chris

23 years, 2 months

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Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386

by Aaron J. Grier

On Mon, Jan 28, 2002 at 10:03:45PM +0100, Jonathan Naylor wrote: > With so much open source code out there, it'd be a relatively simple > task to find C code for IDE disc access and such like. I would even > suggest getting older Linux code from the 2.0.x days as its likely to > be a little less complex, while still being stable. Linux!? why not one of the three BSD-licensed BSD-derived Net/Free/Open BSDs? keep it "in the family" so to speak. :) -- Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier(a)poofygoof.com "[...] I generally haven't found IDM guys to be very good live acts, most of them just sit down at their laptop and tweak reaktor." -- Brandon Daniel

23 years, 2 months

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Re: [pups] missing space in 2.11_rp_unknown

by Steven M. Schultz

Howdy - > From: Christian Groessler <cpg(a)aladdin.de> > I just last week installed v6 from tape image. I have to admit, I like > working boot images more :-) (Since I only have an emulator and not An emualtor of course would use an emulated tape image ;) That's how I typically install. There are instructions and sources to the program to create the 'virtual tape' from the dump and tar files. > the real thing, I don't have the need to physically transfer the stuff.) I keep forgetting that not everyone has a SCSI<->Qbus adaptor :) (it was _expensive_ at the time but gosh, after 10 years the initial $ pain is long long gone and I've gotten a lot of use out of it) > Hmm, I just did this now, but I have to admit, I only browsed the > instructions of most of them. I followed the instructions of 412/413 > because I feared I'd forget to update init before rebooting the new kernel. Yes, screwing up 'init' is, to put it mildly, catastrophic. During the development and testing of that set of updates I did render my system unbootable. Thankfully I had a spare OS installed on the SCSI Zip drive - I just booted from "DU 1" and put back a working 'init' (turns out that a 100MB Zip disk can contain a *full* 2.11BSD system - not a lot of space left, but it includes all sources and will boot). > But otherwise I applied all patches to 442, and then rebuilt the > kernel, rebooted, and did "make build; make installsrc". Seemed to work. That's fantastic to hear! > I noticed 2 patches, which patched /usr/src/sys/GENERIC/Makefile, but > this is a generated file I think. At least it wasn't present, because Yes and No. YES - it is generated by running './config' in /sys/conf. NO - it's an integral part of the OS as distributed. > I removed /usr/src/sys/GENERIC. You really didn't want to do that ;) The Make* files for custom kernels will (100% guaranteed) diverge from the defaults. That's expected. The GENERIC kernel is a special case though. When changes are made to the Make* files (overlay sizes change for example) the patches will not attempt to find and "fix" any locally created kernels - but the guarantee has always been that the GENERIC kernel _will_ build, thus the patches presume that the /sys/GENERIC directory hasn't been removed. Indeed the kernel patches usually suggest rebuilding GENERIC. It is a Good Idea (saved my system a couple times) to keep a known good working _non_networking kernel (i.e. GENERIC) in /genunix. That way if you are tinkering around (or a bad patch ends up in /unix) you have something to boot. Many is the time (during development, testing of course) that I've had to rely on a /genunix to get the system back alive. Glad to hear you're current and are not seeing 'df' weirdness. You may want to upgrade P11 to 2.9 though - that would, I think, have fixed that problem before you saw it ;) Cheers, Steven Schultz sms(a)2bsd.com

23 years, 2 months

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Re: [pups] missing space in 2.11_rp_unknown

by Christian Groessler

Hi, On 02/28/2002 08:53:34 AM PST "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > >> From: Christian Groessler <cpg(a)aladdin.de> >> > Look at the /VERSION file. The first or second line will have >> > the patchlevel. That file's updated by each patch. >> >> I have 400. I assume www.2bsd.com contains the newest patches? So 442 >> is the latest? > > It _might_ be easier to create an install tape from the files in > the 2.11 portion of the PUPS archive - I think that was updated > to about patchlevel 432 or so. There is documentation on how to > create a boot tape, etc from the compressed files. I just last week installed v6 from tape image. I have to admit, I like working boot images more :-) (Since I only have an emulator and not the real thing, I don't have the need to physically transfer the stuff.) > On the other hand it might be instructive/interesting/whatever to > apply the 42 updates manually - just be sure to read the instructions > that come with each one :) Hmm, I just did this now, but I have to admit, I only browsed the instructions of most of them. I followed the instructions of 412/413 because I feared I'd forget to update init before rebooting the new kernel. But otherwise I applied all patches to 442, and then rebuilt the kernel, rebooted, and did "make build; make installsrc". Seemed to work. I noticed 2 patches, which patched /usr/src/sys/GENERIC/Makefile, but this is a generated file I think. At least it wasn't present, because I removed /usr/src/sys/GENERIC. regards, chris

23 years, 2 months

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Re: [pups] PDP 11

by Carl Lowenstein

> From: Nutech <repro(a)nutechgroup.net> > To: pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: [pups] PDP 11 > Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 01:27:40 +0530 > > I post this message with hope that someone out there can help me with a > problem I have at hand. > > My company recently bought a preowned printing machine, which uses a > PDP11/73 BA23 > connected to a VT240 terminal to control the functions of the machine. > Needless to say that we are unable to make the PDP run since we have no > knowledge of the machine and have no one to look upto for guidance.. > > While we are able to power on the PDP, the VT240 is dead. Problems like this are much more easily solved in person than by email correspondence. Why not tell everyone where you are physically located, and perhaps someone nearby can help. The VT240 could be replaced by any of several terminals, or even by a PC running a terminal emulation program. carl carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu

23 years, 2 months

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[pups] reading and writing 2.11BSD disk images

by David W Talmage

This must be a FAQ but I couldn't find the answer anywhere. I have some 2.11BSD disk images that I want to copy large files onto on a NetBSD box. Can someone please point me to a tool that can do it? These are disk images that I use with p11. For various reasons, using p11 simulated tape drive isn't an option. I use kermit to inject small files into the running p11 + 2.11BSD. It takes many minutes to 300KB. It takes much, much more time to copy 12MB. David Talmage

23 years, 2 months

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Re: [pups] missing space in 2.11_rp_unknown

by Steven M. Schultz

Hi - > From: Christian Groessler <cpg(a)aladdin.de> > > Look at the /VERSION file. The first or second line will have > > the patchlevel. That file's updated by each patch. > > I have 400. I assume www.2bsd.com contains the newest patches? So 442 > is the latest? Wow, that is quite old. A faster link is at FTP.TO.GD-ES.COM (that's a T-1 vs the ISDL link I have at home). It _might_ be easier to create an install tape from the files in the 2.11 portion of the PUPS archive - I think that was updated to about patchlevel 432 or so. There is documentation on how to create a boot tape, etc from the compressed files. On the other hand it might be instructive/interesting/whatever to apply the 42 updates manually - just be sure to read the instructions that come with each one :) Cheers, Steven

23 years, 2 months

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[pups] Venix

by Davidson, Steve

Warren, Does the archive contain any Venix images that are not in "tdo" format? I have been unsuccessful in creating the floppies using that method. If I could get an image from "dd", I could use my VAX or PDP to create images for my Pro-380. Thanks, -Steve Davidson

23 years, 2 months

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Re: [pups] missing space in 2.11_rp_unknown

by Christian Groessler

Hi, On 02/27/2002 03:25:22 PM PST "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > >Hello again - > >> From: Christian Groessler <cpg(a)aladdin.de> >> Regarding the patchlevels, how do I find out which patchlevel my >> system is at? > > Look at the /VERSION file. The first or second line will have > the patchlevel. That file's updated by each patch. I have 400. I assume www.2bsd.com contains the newest patches? So 442 is the latest? regards, chris

23 years, 2 months

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Re: [pups] missing space in 2.11_rp_unknown

by Steven M. Schultz

Hello again - > From: Christian Groessler <cpg(a)aladdin.de> > > Mmmm, I wonder if the problems you were having were caused by > > /dev not being correctly populated. > > Maybe. I noticed they're missing and recreated them by hand. Perhaps I > made a mistake there. It would be easy enough to do - or perhaps a critical one was left out. Filesystems without device nodes can be moved with a 'tar' pipeline but the root filesystem is special. > It's a problem of the p11 emulator I use. I got a patch off-list which > fixed it. It was some signed/unsigned thing. Ah ha! > Regarding the patchlevels, how do I find out which patchlevel my > system is at? Look at the /VERSION file. The first or second line will have the patchlevel. That file's updated by each patch. Cheers, Steven

23 years, 2 months

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Re: [pups] missing space in 2.11_rp_unknown

by Christian Groessler

Hi, On 02/26/2002 03:29:07 PM PST "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > > Mmmm, I wonder if the problems you were having were caused by > /dev not being correctly populated. Maybe. I noticed they're missing and recreated them by hand. Perhaps I made a mistake there. >> $ df >> Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on >> /dev/xp0a 7816 2658 5158 04% / >> /dev/xp0g 151625 117599 34026 08% /usr >> $ >> >> Btw, the capacity values look a bit strange? > > Yes, they do look (more than a little bit) strange. > > On my system here (a P11 based emulated PDP-11 - I have a real 11/73 > but it is only powered up when I'm actively testing): > >Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on >/dev/xp0a 8228 3163 5065 38% / >/dev/xp0h 155328 84188 71140 54% /usr > > What patchlevel did you mention the system was at? There were a lot > of patches issued after the ' 2.11_rp_unknown' image was created. > One thing, which probably will not make any difference, to try would > be to recompile 'df' (and possibly 'libc') and see if the problem > changes. Looks like it's a math error of some kind so either > the compiler/libraries are broken or P11's having a problem doing > arithmetic. It's a problem of the p11 emulator I use. I got a patch off-list which fixed it. It was some signed/unsigned thing. Regarding the patchlevels, how do I find out which patchlevel my system is at? regards, chris

23 years, 2 months

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v7upgrade 0.0.2

by Rhys Weatherley

I've uploaded version 0.0.2 of "v7upgrade" to my Web site: http://www.southern-storm.com.au/v7upgrade.html It is now possible to run a stripped-down v7 userland environment on top of a Linux/i386 kernel, using the v7 Bourne shell. A good chunk of the "shellutils" programs have now been upgraded, including all of your usual favourites (cat, chmod, cp, date, dd, diff, echo, kill, ls, mkdir, mv, od, rm, rmdir, among others). Getting the Bourne shell to work on top of Linux was quite the adventure, to say the least. S.R. did some very naughty things in that code. :-) The code also compiles cleanly for the bcc/8086 target, although I don't yet have a v7 kernel to run it on yet. Cheers, Rhys.

23 years, 2 months

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[pups] Memory Error 46 on a PDP 11/73

by Nutech

Hello, I am getting the following error when I try to boot my PDP. The Card details for the CPU and the Memory Board are as under. Here are the details of the Various cards. Slot 1(ABCD) KDJ11-BB (M8190) Slot 2(ABCD) MSV11-QA(M7551) Slot 3 (AB) M3107 Slot 3 (CD) Blank Slot 4 (AB) Solna prinitng machine card Slot 4 (CD) BIT Scandiavia card Slot 5 (AB) Blank Slot 5 (CD) M7555 Can some one please guide what I can do besides replacing the old card with a new card. Regards, Shroff Testing in progress - Please wait 1 2 3 4 5 6 Error 46 Memory Error See troubleshooting documentation Error PC = 173242 PCR page = 15 Program listing address = 015242 R0 = 060000 R1 = 125252 R2 = 125652 R3 = 052525 R4 = 001000 R5 = 040000 R6 = 172300 Par3 = 034000 Expected data = 125252 Bad data = 125652 Address = 03400000 Command Description 1 Rerun test 2 Loop on test 3 Map memory and I/O page Type a command then press the RETURN key: 3 Memory Map Starting Ending Size in CSR CSR Bus Address address K Bytes address type type 00000000 - 03777776 1024 17772100 Parity Qbus Press the RETURN key when ready to continue I/O page Map Starting Ending Address address 17760440 - 17760456 17765000 - 17765776 CPU ROM or EEPROM 17772100 Memory CSR 17772150 - 17772152 17772200 - 17772276 Supervisor I and D PDR/PAR's 17772300 - 17772376 Kernel I and D PDR/PAR's 17772516 MMR3 17773000 - 17773776 CPU ROM 17777160 - 17777166 17777520 - 17777524 BCSR, PCR, BCR/BDR 17777546 Clock CSR 17777560 - 17777566 Console SLU 17777572 - 17777576 MMR0,1,2 17777600 - 17777676 User I and D PDR/PAR's 17777744 - 17777752 MSER, CCR, MREG, Hit/Miss 17777766 CPU Error 17777772 PIRQ Press the RETURN key when ready to continue I/O page Map Starting Ending Address address 17777776 PSW Press the RETURN key when ready to continue Error 46 Memory Error See troubleshooting documentation Error PC = 173242 PCR page = 15 Program listing address = 015242 R0 = 060000 R1 = 125252 R2 = 125652 R3 = 052525 R4 = 001000 R5 = 040000 R6 = 172300 Par3 = 034000 Expected data = 125252 Bad data = 125652 Address = 03400000 Command Description 1 Rerun test 2 Loop on test 3 Map memory and I/O page Type a command then press the RETURN key:

23 years, 2 months

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Re: [pups] missing space in 2.11_rp_unknown

by Steven M. Schultz

Hi! > From: Christian Groessler <cpg(a)aladdin.de> > > Did you use dump+restor? > > No, tar. I tried again with dump and restor and now it works! Thanks > for the hint! I seldomly use dump/restore. Ah ha! For moving filesystems dump+restor or 'afio' need to be used. Dump+restor also have the advantage of preserving the file flags (see chflags(2) and chflags(1)) - other utilities do not preserve that metadata. The other thing that dump+restor (or afio) handle correctly is the special files in /dev. 'tar' does not know how to archive files such as "/dev/rp0a". Mmmm, I wonder if the problems you were having were caused by /dev not being correctly populated. > Now there's enough space in /: > > $ df > Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on > /dev/xp0a 7816 2658 5158 04% / > /dev/xp0g 151625 117599 34026 08% /usr > $ > > Btw, the capacity values look a bit strange? Yes, they do look (more than a little bit) strange. On my system here (a P11 based emulated PDP-11 - I have a real 11/73 but it is only powered up when I'm actively testing): Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/xp0a 8228 3163 5065 38% / /dev/xp0h 155328 84188 71140 54% /usr What patchlevel did you mention the system was at? There were a lot of patches issued after the ' 2.11_rp_unknown' image was created. One thing, which probably will not make any difference, to try would be to recompile 'df' (and possibly 'libc') and see if the problem changes. Looks like it's a math error of some kind so either the compiler/libraries are broken or P11's having a problem doing arithmetic. Cheers, Steven Schultz sms(a)2bsd.com

23 years, 2 months

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Re: [pups] missing space in 2.11_rp_unknown

by Christian Groessler

Hi, On 02/25/2002 09:16:31 AM PST "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > >Hi - > >> > I see Greg mentioned running fsck. That sounds like an excellent >> > suggestion. >> >> Yes, but it didn't help :-( > >> What can this be? > > It might be necessary to use the '-s' option . "fsck -s" will > unconditionally rebuild the freelist. This didn't work either. > >> I tried something else, I copied the contents of the root fs >> elsewhere, newfs'd the root partition and copied the contents back. > > Did you use dump+restor? No, tar. I tried again with dump and restor and now it works! Thanks for the hint! I seldomly use dump/restore. Now there's enough space in /: $ df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on /dev/xp0a 7816 2658 5158 04% / /dev/xp0g 151625 117599 34026 08% /usr $ Btw, the capacity values look a bit strange? regards, chris

23 years, 2 months

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Re: [pups] missing space in 2.11_rp_unknown

by Steven M. Schultz

Hi - > > I see Greg mentioned running fsck. That sounds like an excellent > > suggestion. > > Yes, but it didn't help :-( > What can this be? It might be necessary to use the '-s' option . "fsck -s" will unconditionally rebuild the freelist. > I tried something else, I copied the contents of the root fs > elsewhere, newfs'd the root partition and copied the contents back. Did you use dump+restor? > But now booting stops when it normally starts init, > Oh no! > ------------- > : unix > Boot: bootdev=05010 bootcsr=0176700 > > 2.11 BSD UNIX #1: Fri Feb 15 18:47:18 PST 2002 > chris@pdp11:/usr/src/sys/PDP11CPG > > attaching qe0 csr 174440 > qe0: DEC DEQNA addr 08:00:2b:07:82:6c > attaching lo0 > > phys mem = 2097152 > avail mem = 1647872 > user mem = 307200 > > ------------- > > ... and here it hangs. Do I have to consider something else when I > newfs the root partition? The boot block, /boot, /unix, /netnix and /etc/init, /bin/sh are intact since the system got as far as printing the memory numbers. After the memory stats the '/etc/autoconfig' process should be run ('init' runs it) and the device probes should take place. The only thing I can think of (and it's a wild guess) is that the "clock" isn't running - thru the boot process clock interrupts aren't used but when 'init' goes to run 'autoconfig' the system nees clock interrupts in order to drive the context switching. Either the clock isn't running or /etc/autoconfig got corrupted somehow in the copying. Steven Schultz sms(a)2bsd.com

23 years, 2 months

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Re: [pups] missing space in 2.11_rp_unknown

by Christian Groessler

Hi, On 02/22/2002 07:31:49 PM PST "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > >> From: Christian Groessler <cpg(a)aladdin.de> >> I'm running above image with the p11 emulator, and the root partition >> is almost full. >> >> # df >> Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on >> root 7816 7030 786 10% / >> >> but looking at files, I only see 2MB+ in use: >> >> # du -s / >> 2702 > > I see Greg mentioned running fsck. That sounds like an excellent > suggestion. Yes, but it didn't help :-( What can this be? I tried something else, I copied the contents of the root fs elsewhere, newfs'd the root partition and copied the contents back. But now booting stops when it normally starts init, ------------- : unix Boot: bootdev=05010 bootcsr=0176700 2.11 BSD UNIX #1: Fri Feb 15 18:47:18 PST 2002 chris@pdp11:/usr/src/sys/PDP11CPG attaching qe0 csr 174440 qe0: DEC DEQNA addr 08:00:2b:07:82:6c attaching lo0 phys mem = 2097152 avail mem = 1647872 user mem = 307200 ------------- ... and here it hangs. Do I have to consider something else when I newfs the root partition? regards, chris

23 years, 2 months

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[pups] PDP 11

by Nutech

I post this message with hope that someone out there can help me with a problem I have at hand. My company recently bought a preowned printing machine, which uses a PDP11/73 BA23 connected to a VT240 terminal to control the functions of the machine. Needless to say that we are unable to make the PDP run since we have no knowledge of the machine and have no one to look upto for guidance.. While we are able to power on the PDP, the VT240 is dead. Looking for help I came across your site and got the feeling that you might be able to help me out of my current deliema. While I have the original program disks, I have NO operating disks or knowledge of what OS is on the PDP. The printing machine is controlled by the PDP thru 4 serial ports (TT0 thru TT3), the machine has a total of 8 ports, 4 are left unused. PLEASE HELP. Regards, Shroff repro(a)nutechgroup.net

23 years, 2 months

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Re: [pups] missing space in 2.11_rp_unknown

by Steven M. Schultz

Hi! > From: Christian Groessler <cpg(a)aladdin.de> > I'm running above image with the p11 emulator, and the root partition > is almost full. > > # df > Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on > root 7816 7030 786 10% / > > but looking at files, I only see 2MB+ in use: > > # du -s / > 2702 > This persists over reboots, so it doesn't seem to be a large deleted > file which is still in use. It might be a corrupt freelist. If that is the case then running fsck will detect that fact and reclaim the space by rebuilding the freelist. > Where is the missing space? My guess is it's "missing" - that can happen if the system's shutdown (or the emulator terminated) prematurely. In that case the freelist metadata might not have been updated. I see Greg mentioned running fsck. That sounds like an excellent suggestion. Cheers, Steven Schultz sms(a)2bsd.com

23 years, 3 months

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[pups] missing space in 2.11_rp_unknown

by Christian Groessler

Hi, I'm running above image with the p11 emulator, and the root partition is almost full. I tried to clean it up, but I cannot find where the space is used. df says: -------- # df Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Avail Capacity Mounted on root 7816 7030 786 10% / -------- but looking at files, I only see 2MB+ in use: -------- # du -s / 2702 -------- This persists over reboots, so it doesn't seem to be a large deleted file which is still in use. Where is the missing space? regards, chris

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [TUHS] 4.4BSD-Lite binaries for SPARC and PMAX

by Warren Toomey

> Warren, maybe you know a PUPS volunteer in the USA that has appropriate > equipment and experience to do this job? This would also reduce shipping > efforts and cost for Mr. McKusick. (And risk of damage of the tapes, as > it would avoid shipping across the "big pond".) I've just sent some mail to Tim Shoppa, asking if he would be willing to read the tapes for us. Cheers, Warren

23 years, 3 months

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v7 upgrade

by Rhys Weatherley

Hi, I've been lurking here for a week or two, reading the archives on porting v7 to x86, etc. On a lark, I downloaded the v7 sources and started to "upgrade" them so the userland can build and run on top of modern OS kernels such as Linux. The bulk of libc is the same (warts and all), with the "sys" layer replaced with modern syscalls. Perhaps it is a bit "sacrilegious", but I believe it makes the code more accessible for experimentation, and it should solve the "how do we get a PDP-11 compiler" problem: we use the original hosted on top of a modern kernel as a cross-compiler. Check it out and let me know what you think. Most of the libraries have been upgraded, with a handful of the simpler command-line utilities. http://www.southern-storm.com.au/v7upgrade.html Cheers, Rhys.

23 years, 3 months

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I N T E R N E T I N C O M E ! ! !

by casanndra2002＠yahoo.com

23 years, 3 months

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Legal ramifications putting certain things on my web site?

by Derrik Walker v2.0

I've started porting some of the old UNIX programs to Mac OS X. I've got about 1/2 the games, that should be ok, but I also have other things like crypt and makekey. I'd like to make these available in binary form, but I don't want the men in black knocking at my door either... Any thoughts? On a side note, I simply can not believe how easy it is to compile this old code under Mac OS X. for some of it, it's proving easier than porting Linux code ( if you've only known how long I worked on linux's fortune, and the old one just compiled no fuss, no problems ). Also, if your wandering why ... that's easy, because I can. Thanks. - Derrik firebug(a)apk.net http://junior.apk.net/~firebug --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The number of UNIX installations has grown to 10, with more expected. -- The Unix Programmer's Manual, 2nd Edition, June 1972

23 years, 3 months

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[pups] PDP11-23

by Pieter Visser

Hello, I ám still have a working Dec pdp11-23. It runs on CTS-300 with 10 Mb Harddisk and a Tape drive for back-ups I think the programm is writen in dibol. I f you want more information about this system please reply by email If anyone can help me with the following questions. Can i connect an windows/dos sytem to the pdp11-23 and run the program. Is it possible to copy the program and run it on a Windows/Dos based machine. Hope to hear from sombody, Pieter Visser The Netherlands e-mail p.visser(a)tip.nl handy +31-(0)6-53630275 phone +31-(0)165-313597 work +31-(0)76-5022800 fax +31-(0)76-5022090

23 years, 3 months

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Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386

by Aaron J. Grier

On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 10:24:30AM +0000, P.A.Osborne wrote: > The reason I want the compiler is that it will generate standalone 16 > bit code on a sensible platform. GCC doesnt produce 16 bit code as > far as I am aware - so personally I thought it would be amusing (I > must be mad) to use tools that run under DOS (well OS/2). support for PDP-11 was added to gcc a few months ago. I don't think it's been well tested, but support exists in current versions of binutils and gcc. http://pdp11.nocrew.org/ there's also support for the m68hc11/12 which are 16-bit. it seems like support for 80{,1,2}86 in gcc should be possible; it just hasn't been done yet. another compiler that might be worth looking at is SDCC http://sdcc.sourceforge.net/ which is currently targeted towards 8-bit MCUs. of course bootstrapping via the original K&R compiler would be the "classic" way to do it, though. ;) -- Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier(a)poofygoof.com "[...] I generally haven't found IDM guys to be very good live acts, most of them just sit down at their laptop and tweak reaktor." -- Brandon Daniel

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [TUHS] Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386

by John Holden

Aaron J. Grier wrote :- > support for PDP-11 was added to gcc a few months ago. It's been around since 1991 as a patch, but it didn't keep up with the newer versions of gcc

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] screen 3.9.9 vs. 2.11BSD write() to fifo and/or select() on socket

by Steven M. Schultz

Hi - > From: David W Talmage <talmage(a)cmf.nrl.navy.mil> > I thought that I'd read in the FM that they do. I see now that I was > mistaken,perhaps delusional. I see now that <sys/stat.h> contains the gospel: > > #define S_IFIFO 0010000 /* named pipe (fifo) - Not used by 2.11BSD */ :) Adding FIFOs to the kernel would make an interesting project though - perhaps when I become inspired/motivated I'll give it a try. > Sounds like I'm in for some deep hacking if I continue with this. Will > overlays help me here? Overlays will help if the code comes out to more than 64KB. Alas, overlays will _not_ help the dataspace requirements. The last time I looked at 'screen' I saw things like "char buf[32768];' sprinkled thru the code. So you might be in for some serious hacking to trim back the sizes of arrays/buffers/etc. It probably would also be a good idea to 'string'ify the program (there are tools to assist doing this - take a look at how sendmail and lint are built). > I wonder if setitimer() will fare any better. alarm() is obsolete. The gospel according to /usr/src/lib/libc/gen/alarm.c says: /* * Backwards compatible alarm. */ #include <sys/time.h> #include <unistd.h> unsigned int alarm(secs) unsigned int secs; { struct itimerval it, oitv; register struct itimerval *itp = ⁢ timerclear(&itp->it_interval); itp->it_value.tv_sec = secs; itp->it_value.tv_usec = 0; if (setitimer(ITIMER_REAL, itp, &oitv) < 0) return (-1); if (oitv.it_value.tv_usec) oitv.it_value.tv_sec++; return (oitv.it_value.tv_sec); } <g> > I'll send a progress report if I decide to continue this project. Thanks for > your help, Mr. Schultz. What I think you're seeing is the race condition that fork() has - there is no guarantee which process (parent or child) runs first. The test program does the fork() and the child runs to completion before the parent enters the select(). At that point the parent will wait until the alarm goes off. One thing you might try is create two separate programs. One would create the socket and wait for the other program to connect and send a string. If that works it shows that the UNIX domainsockets are working as expected and that the fork() race is indeed the problem. IF the client/server tests fail then there is something wrong in the UNIX domain socket handling that needs to be addressed. Good Luck! Cheers, Steven Schultz

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] screen 3.9.9 vs. 2.11BSD write() to fifo and/or select() on socket

by Steven M. Schultz

Hi! > From: David W Talmage <talmage(a)cmf.nrl.navy.mil> > Would someone please advise me about fifos and sockets in 2.11BSD? Ok ;) Don't use fifos - they don't exist (as you probably have found out by now :)) > I'm having > trouble porting screen 3.9.9, the multiplexing terminal emulator, to 2.11BSD fifos and sockets are just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to 'screen'. Eons ago (when screen was a fairly new program) I made an attempt at porting it and ran into the address space problems - seems that screen wants to use lots of large buffers, has lots of strings (all the help, etc) and so on. > because of them. I'm running Mr. Schultz's 2.11BSD with all patches up to > #442 on Mr. Brandt's p11 emulator version 2.9. FWIW, I have INET in my kernel > but I've ifconfig-ed only lo0. Thanks for the "ownership" label but I think of it more as being a 'steward' and coordinator than anything else p11 2.9? Wow, I've an old patched/hacked 2.5 because I can't seem to find p11's home now - begemot.org doesn't mention anything about "p11". > The fifo test portion of the configure script fails when writing to the fifo. > The write() returns -1 and sets errno == 79, "Inappropriate file type or Right, FIFOs don't exist. One of those things I never could find the need or time for ;) > format". This happens when I run the test as root, as I must in order to use > mknod() to create the fifo. See fifotest.c, below. If 2.11's mknod can create fifos that is _news_ to me. I don't recall seeing (or adding) that capability. > screen can use sockets instead of fifos. That portion of the configure script > fails as well. It fails in that it does not return from the select() on the > socket until the alarm goes off. See socketstest.c, below. Now that is very strange. Unix domain sockets do work (syslogd uses them for example) so I'm at a loss to explain why the test program isn't working. One thing I did do is after running "./a.out&" was do an immediate 'ps'. That should see 2 a.out processes due to the 'fork()' call. I only say one. This tells me that the alarm was started (obviously since alarm(5) is the first thing executed) but the child process raced thru and exited before the parent got to the select() call. With the child exited the select() will block until interrupted by the alarm() call. Steven Schultz sms(a)2bsd.com

23 years, 3 months

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[pups] screen 3.9.9 vs. 2.11BSD write() to fifo and/or select() on socket

by David W Talmage

Would someone please advise me about fifos and sockets in 2.11BSD? I'm having trouble porting screen 3.9.9, the multiplexing terminal emulator, to 2.11BSD because of them. I'm running Mr. Schultz's 2.11BSD with all patches up to #442 on Mr. Brandt's p11 emulator version 2.9. FWIW, I have INET in my kernel but I've ifconfig-ed only lo0. screen's configure complains that it finds no usable fifo or socket. The fifo test portion of the configure script fails when writing to the fifo. The write() returns -1 and sets errno == 79, "Inappropriate file type or format". This happens when I run the test as root, as I must in order to use mknod() to create the fifo. See fifotest.c, below. screen can use sockets instead of fifos. That portion of the configure script fails as well. It fails in that it does not return from the select() on the socket until the alarm goes off. See socketstest.c, below. /* fifotest.c */ #include "confdefs.h" #include <sys/errno.h> #include <sys/types.h> #include <sys/stat.h> #include <fcntl.h> /* #ifndef O_NONBLOCK #define O_NONBLOCK O_NDELAY #endif #ifndef S_IFIFO #define S_IFIFO 0010000 #endif */ char *fin = "/tmp/conftest254"; main() { struct stat stb; int f; (void)alarm(5); #ifdef POSIX if (mkfifo(fin, 0777)) { #else if (mknod(fin, S_IFIFO|0777, 0)) { #endif printf("mknod failed\n"); perror("mknod"); exit(1); } if (stat(fin, &stb) || (stb.st_mode & S_IFIFO) != S_IFIFO) { printf("stat failed\n"); exit(1); } close(0); #ifdef __386BSD__ /* * The next test fails under 386BSD, but screen works using fifos. * Fifos in O_RDWR mode are only used for the BROKEN_PIPE case and for * the select() configuration test. */ exit(0); #endif if (open(fin, O_RDONLY | O_NONBLOCK)) { printf("open #1 failed\n"); exit(1); } if (fork() == 0) { printf("f0\n"); close(0); if (open(fin, O_WRONLY | O_NONBLOCK)) { printf("f0 open #2 failed\n"); exit(1); } close(0); if (open(fin, O_WRONLY | O_NONBLOCK)) { printf("f0 open #3 failed\n"); exit(1); } if (write(0, "TEST", 4) == -1) { /* FAILS HERE */ printf("f0 write failed %d\n", errno); perror("write"); exit(1); } exit(0); } printf("f1\n"); f = 1; if (select(1, &f, 0, 0, 0) == -1) { printf("f1 select failed\n"); exit(1); } exit(0); } /* socketstest.c */ #include <sys/types.h> #include <sys/socket.h> #include <sys/un.h> #include <fcntl.h> char *son = "/tmp/conftest254"; main() { int s1, s2, s3, l; struct sockaddr_un a; (void)alarm(5); if ((s1 = socket(AF_UNIX, SOCK_STREAM, 0)) == -1) { perror("socket"); exit(1); } a.sun_family = AF_UNIX; strcpy(a.sun_path, son); (void) unlink(son); if (bind(s1, (struct sockaddr *) &a, strlen(son)+2) == -1) { perror("bind"); exit(1); } if (listen(s1, 2)) { perror("listen"); exit(1); } if (fork() == 0) { if ((s2 = socket(AF_UNIX, SOCK_STREAM, 0)) == -1) { perror("f0 socket"); kill(getppid(), 3); } (void)connect(s2, (struct sockaddr *)&a, strlen(son) + 2); if (write(s2, "HELLO", 5) == -1) { perror("f0 write"); kill(getppid(), 3); } exit(0); } l = sizeof(a); if (close(0) == -1) { perror("close"); } if (accept(s1, &a, &l)) { perror("accept"); exit(1); } l = 1; if (select(1, &l, 0, 0, 0) == -1) { /* DOESN'T RETURN BEFORE SIG_ALARM */ perror("select"); exit(1); } exit(0); } -- David Talmage (talmage(a)cmf.nrl.navy.mil) ITT Industries, Advanced Engineering & Sciences, Advanced Technology Group

23 years, 3 months

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4.4BSD-Lite binaries for SPARC and PMAX

by Jochen Kunz

Hi. I plan to do a BSD exhibition at the VCFE. Main focus is 4.3BSD{,-Tahoe,-Reno} on VAXen. But I want to show 4.4BSD-Lite on HP300, SPARC and PMAX too. I have the 4.4BSD-Lite HP300 binaries, but nothing for SPARC and PMAX. Are there any binaries still around? I don't want to struggle with a SPARC and PMAX bootstrap... Ahh, and 4.2BSD-Reno for HP300 is missing too... -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

23 years, 3 months

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Re: FW: FW: Cancer (DO NOT DELETE A WORD OF THIS)

by Rahbynz1＠aol.com

Please read the following: http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/blamybruce.htm?terms=make+a+wish

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] Duh - how do you format an RX50?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 10, 17:23, Jay Jaeger wrote: > Rats. So it would seem. Forgot about that angle. Useful program -- just > not for floppies. > > Oh well. > > (Hmm. I wonder how "bzzzzt"s taste when you have to eat them with your > hat?) I suspect that they kind of tingle, eh? As far as I remember, yes. I've tried it a few times myself :-) -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] Duh - how do you format an RX50?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 8, 8:31, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > RX50's came pre-formatted from DEC. There was never a way to > format them on PDP's or VAX as far as I knew. I do think it is > possible to create them using PUTR and an old PC with a proper > floppy controller and a 1.2M floppy drive configured the right > way. You can format them on a Rainbow, but not an -11 or VAX. > My understanding is they are 80 track, 96 tpi format but spin > at the slow spead of normal 5.25 disks and not the higher speed > used by IBM HD disks. Very similar low-level format to IBM floppies, except that, as Bill says, they're 80-track. The spec is 80-track, 96 tpi, single-side, double density (not HD), 10 sectors per track, 512 bytes/sector. DEC squeeze the extra sector in by shortening some of the gaps; even so the timing is a little tight and the drive speed has to be better-than-averagely accurate. It doesn't matter whether you write them at 300 rpm or 360, so long as the controller adjusts its data rate accordingly (250kbps or 300kbps). Which is what a PC does (uses 250kbps for 300rpm and 300kbps for 360 rpm). However, many HD-capable drives use pin 2 on the interface not only to change the speed but change the write current. Some such drives have jumpers to set the correct values. > As a curious note, I actually had (and may still have in the > attic somewhere) a real shugart 80 track 5.25 drive that would > have been the equivalent of an RX50, so it was not only DEC who > used that format. I had them on a TRS-80 and NewDOS-80 and > DOSPlus had no problems formatting and using the drive. This > was long before my first PDP, but I now wonder if they would > have been able to read and write (and maybe even format!) RX50's. If the controller it was attached to can write MFM (double-density), then it would work. Drives of that type were very common before PCs took over. In fact you can fudge one to look like half of an RX50 (a real RX50 plays funny tricks with the SideSelect and Track00 signals, and some DEC controllers use that to recognise an RX50). -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] Duh - how do you format an RX50?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 9, 8:37, Jay Jaeger wrote: > Um, bzzzzt. Wrong. I have a floppy labeled: BL-FN7AP-MC CZFNAP0 M-11 > FORMTR RX50 . This is a formatter program for a Micro PDP-11. > > It is a *diagnostic* program (not a user program) for formatting these > beasties. Mine is for the -11, I would imagine that there is one for the > MicroVAX as well. Jay, I just checked on that. It's not an RX50 formatter, it's the XXDP V2 formatting and diagnostics routines for an RXDX3. IIRC it will format RD5x hard drives, and RX33, but not an RX50. Can you get a directory listing of the disk? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] Duh - how do you format an RX50?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 9, 12:14, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > On Sat, 9 Feb 2002, Jay Jaeger wrote: > > > Um, bzzzzt. Wrong. I have a floppy labeled: BL-FN7AP-MC CZFNAP0 M-11 > > FORMTR RX50 . This is a formatter program for a Micro PDP-11. > I guess this constitutes the last straw for this myth. Or was it merely > a business decision intended to promote the sale of pre-formatted RX-50 > diskettes. (A practice not uncommon in those days. For example, at one > place where I worked we were responsible for maintaining Terak Micros, a > LSI-11 based system. Any time we reported a floppy problem the first > question was, "Are you using Terak brand diskettes??" Of course, everyone > at that time knew there were only 3 manufacturers of platens and everybody > else just supplied labels!!) > > Other arguments: I have an Andromeda Disk Controller. I know one of the > supported floppy formats is RX50. I'll bet the their formatting program > won't care what drive is there and will happily format diskettes for use > in this and other RX-50's. I expect it would. It's not hard to write a formatter program. I wrote one for my Acorn Archimedes, and an RX50 copier program as well. > I wonder if there is anyone who could be contacted about releasing it?? > Maybe even the VMS version, too. Or even, the source?? Somehow, I doubt > that Compaq still sells many pre-formatted RX50's. I seem to recall that DEC let people copy XXDP between machines without too much excitement. > And while we're on the subject, what about this supposed problem using > anything put certain kinds of diskettes?? I used my 80 track 96tpi drive > all the time with the same diskettes I used in my other SS/SD, DS/SD drives > all the time and never had a problem. Is this perhaps another myth intended > to foster the sale of pre-formatted diskettes?? So long as they're labelled SD or DD and not HD, they have the right coercivity. Some people argue that the fineness of the emulsion may be a factor, but actually you'd have to be incredibly unlucky to have a flaw on a disk that would allow it to be perfect for SD but not DD. Some people have likewise argued that the disk head gap is only about half as wide for 80-track as it is for 40-track, but that's irrelevant: even if the gap is a third of the track pitch, thats around 1/300", the resulting bit density (300 bpi) on the radius of the disk is still much coarser than the bit density around the circumference (about 3300 bpi for single density). I do have a few very old S/S floppies with flaws on the second side, and which therefore aren't good to use as D/S (I value my data!) but I have hundreds more sold as S/S that are work fine as D/S. They just weren't certified that way; they probably just weren't tested, in the days when lots of disks didn't need to be. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] Duh - how do you format an RX50?

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Feb 9, 8:37, Jay Jaeger wrote: > Um, bzzzzt. Wrong. I have a floppy labeled: BL-FN7AP-MC CZFNAP0 M-11 > FORMTR RX50 . This is a formatter program for a Micro PDP-11. > > It is a *diagnostic* program (not a user program) for formatting these > beasties. Mine is for the -11, I would imagine that there is one for the > MicroVAX as well. > At 11:42 PM 2/8/2002 +0000, Pete Turnbull wrote: > >You can format them on a Rainbow, but not an -11 or VAX. Jay, I'd be very interested to know more about that. I never heard of it before, and I thought I had a pretty comprehensive collection of the PDP-11 (including microPDP-11) diagnostics. Was it standard issue with a particular model? Is there a date on it? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 3 months

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[pups] Duh - how do you format an RX50?

by Jonathan Engdahl

I can't believe I haven't figured this out yet. I bought an RX50, and installed it in my PDP-11/53 running 2.11BSD. It's nice having that empty hole in the front of the BA23 plugged, but I hope for even more. The drive seems alive: if I say "cp /dev/ra1a /dev/null", it starts groaning and ticking as if it were reading the floppy. But how do you format the floppies? I tried XXDP/ZRQCH0 (downloaded via VTserver), but it says the floppies are UNFORMATTABLE. That does that mean? -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 1 Allen-Bradley Drive Advanced Technology Mayfield Heights, OH 44124 http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl engdahl(a)safeaccess.com "The things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18

23 years, 3 months

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[pups] bootstrapping an RT-11 image via VTserver

by Jonathan Engdahl

I built an 11/23 with 256K RAM, a UDC11 disk controller, one 80 meg MFM hard drive. The hard drive formatter runs under RT-11. The assumption is that you have a working floppy from which you can boot RT-11. I want to devise a method to run the formatter via VTserver. I figured out how to do this for the RQDX3 and XXDP. You can run XXDP under E11, load the utility you want to run, then stop E11 and dump the entire 28K word memory image to a disk file. By hacking a header onto this memory image, you can turn it into a standalone that can be bootstrapped via VTserver, just like the disklabel, mkfs, and restor standlones. This is easy, because XXDP tells you what the restart address is when you load a program. The question: is is possible to restart RT11SJ in the same manner as XXDP? I read some of the manuals, and tried using ODT to restart RT-11 at various points pointed to by the vector table and fixed area. By starting at the trap 4 address I can get it to restart and live. However, this seems to make RT-11 forget that I had done a "GET" of the utility that I wanted to run. I tried restarting at the RMON address, but that crashes. One other experiment I've tried is to GET the utility then "START 1000", but that crashes too. If I GET then just type "START" it lives. What am I doing wrong? One assumption is that the utility only uses memory and TT: system calls -- no disk accesses or swapping. Is it possible to abuse RT-11 in this manner? The utilities I'm trying to run are the UDC11 OCT and UDCT utilities. I want to make it possible to reformat the hard drive on this single drive system without tearing it apart and moving pieces to another system. It is also possible to mess up the NVRAM on the UDC11 so that you cannot boot. If this happens, and you are lucky enough to have another running system (and I am), you can rejumper the CSR of the stuck board and fix it on the other system. Otherwise, you are in big trouble. I wonder if it would be possible to bootstrap a VM0: image into high RAM and boot from it? I realize there are other solutions. The standard answer to questions like this is "get more hardware". The reason for doing this is I want to invent a method that will work for a very minimal pile of hardware. And the whole point of that is to make it possible for people to get a PDP-11 running with minimal investment. -- Jonathan Engdahl Rockwell Automation Principal Research Engineer 1 Allen-Bradley Drive Advanced Technology Mayfield Heights, OH 44124, USA Mayfield Heights Labs engdahl(a)safeaccess.com 440-646-7326 http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/PDP-11.htm

23 years, 3 months

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Browse Unix src: the Unix Tree

by Warren Toomey

All, With the freeing up of the Unix source, not only can I open up the Unix Archive to anonymous downloads, but I can now make my Unix Tree web site available anonymously: http://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixTree/ Here is where you will find unpacked versions of Unix source code, and a means of comparing files between different versions. Cheers, Warren P.S Thanks to the many people who have set up mirrors of the Unix Archive.

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [TUHS] Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Greg Lehey: To repeat what I said earlier: the hardware-dependent code isn't very interesting, it's the kernel interfaces. Minix is not UNIX; BSD is. You'll find it easier to adapt a BSD driver to the Sixth or Seventh Edition than you will a Minix or Linux driver. It depends on approach, which depends in turn on intent. If the intent is to get a system up and running as quickly as possible, it would probably be best to shoehorn existing code into the existing old UNIX framework, and code from a current BSD system is probably easier to do that with than code from Minix (says someone who has looked at neither within living memory). If the intent is to learn about the innards of operating systems and how they interact with hardware, or about the specifics of old UNIXes or the OS aspects of Intel hardware, it is better to compare different descriptions of the hardware (whether abstract descriptions in books or pragmatic ones in code), write your own small test programs to be run on bare hardware or as special cases within some system that already runs there, and eventually write your own code or adopt code that you now understand thoroughly. Which of these you consider fun depends both on your goals and on your personal taste. Both are worthy of respect. In days long past, when I did a lot of work to make a research version of UNIX as robust as possible against hardware flaws (recover if possible, at least explain clearly what broke if not) and to port it to a few new VAXes of the time, I found the best hardware information to lie in the VAX/VMS source fiche. The UNIXes of the day tended either to crash on the slightest hardware error or to ignore the error and just misbehave until rebooted. Stealing code from them would have been easier, but it wouldn't have done what I wanted. Reading the VMS sources and treating them as a hardware reference manual did. Modern UNIXes doubtless do better, but the point is that different systems do different things with the hardware, and if your goal is understanding and not just function, you will gain more by looking in many places. An irrelevant but fun anecdote: it could be argued that the resulting code recovered too smoothly from errors. One day I discovered that one of our systems was running more slowly than usual, though it was otherwise OK; checking back on the paper console log, I discovered that several weeks earlier it had had a hard cache error, reported it and cheerfully turned off the bad half of the cache, and continued on its way. So I called Field Service and we scheduled a convenient time to run diagnostics--yes, the hardware really had failed--and replace the bad CPU board; but it would have been better to have noticed earlier. I watched the console logs more carefully after that. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] solution for the disklabel

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 27, 23:42, lothar felten wrote: > installation was no problem, but still i > have some questions: > my VT102 doesn´t do backspace, i only > get ^H. i tried the > terminal in ANSI and VT52 mode, no > difference. Maybe it wants a DEL character instead of backspace (backspace *is* ctrl-H, shown as ^H or ^h). Change it on the terminal by going into setup, or use stty on the BSD system to change the delete character (stty del '^h'). > i have some dec boards labeled M7513 > does anyone know what this > is? i found: > M7513 - RQD - RQDXE Q BUS drive > interface extension module That's exactly what it is. The BA23 box only supports one hard drive; the RQDXE is an adaptor for an RXDX2 or RXDX3 to permit use of additional drives with a distribution board in a second enclosure. One of the 50-pin connectors goes to the RQDX3, one to the distribution board in the BA23, and the third to a connector kit on the rear panel of the BA23. There's a different version for an RQDX1, called an RQDX1E. > the RQDX3 has another connector, i > suppose for RX50 floppydrive. An RQDX3 has only one connector, the 50-pin one to go to the distribution board. Are you looking at the right thing? Are you looking at a distribution board? That does have a 34-way connector for a floppy. > can i hook up a 5,25" pc drive? maybe > with modifications? Not an ordinary PC floppy, no. A TEAC FD55GFR is an 80-track double-sided drive (not HD, though) that will work as an RX33. Some other 80-track 5.25" drives may work, if you set the jumpers. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 3 months

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RE: [pups] Problems booting PDP11/40 using vtserver

by Fred N. van Kempen

.. and I'm actually still alive, although only barely... :) I'll respond to Michael in email, and summarize here.. --f > -----Original Message----- > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@minnie.tuhs.org] > Sent: maandag 28 januari 2002 23:09 > To: Michael Werner > Cc: PUPS mailing list > Subject: Re: [pups] Problems booting PDP11/40 using vtserver > > > In article by Michael Werner: > > I have my PDP11/40 connected to a MicroVAX 2 (running NetBSD/vax > > 1.5.2) via serial line and want to boot a 2.9BSD or 2.11BSD > using the > > vtserver software. > > When I toggle in vtserver's boot code, the first file is > being loaded > > correctly by the PDP. Then, following the instructions in vtserver > > documentation, the serial line should be used as a serial > console - and > > some text should appear! And this is the problem: I don't > get any output. > > So, my question: Does anybody know what's going wrong here? > > Thanks in advance - Michi > > I've passed the baton of Vtserver development over to Fred van Kempen. > However, which version of Vtserver are you using? > > Cheers, > Warren > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > InterNetworking en Network Security Consultant MicroWalt Corporation (Netherlands), Korte Heul 95, 1403 ND BUSSUM Phone +31 (35) 6980059 FAX +31 (35) 6980215 http://WWW.MicroWalt.NL/ Dit bericht en eventuele bijlagen is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Openbaarmaking, vermenigvuldiging, verspreiding aan derden is niet toegestaan. Er wordt geen verantwoordelijkheid genomen voor de juiste en volledige overbrenging van de inhoud van dit bericht, noch voor de tijdige ontvangst ervan.

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [TUHS] Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386

by P.A.Osborne

On Fri, Feb 01, 2002 at 02:43:53PM -0500, bwc(a)borf.com wrote: > Regarding the few comments in Ken's kernel--I always found the great--you > can get the Lyons' commentary which may be another reason for doing Sixth. My thoughts exactly funnily enough. Pondering just this over the weekend has left me wondering whether MiniUnix would be a better initial place to start - as its essentially V6, but without memory management or pipes. Which as a starting point for the experiment may be an easier place to start. Thoughts anyone? Also as a sideline, I don't know how the list owner of this list feels about this discussion potentially swamping the list. If this is an issue or other readers of the list are sick and tired of the current ruminations please feel free to let me know and I will create a mailing list on the list manager here at UKC. That way those of us who are regarded as sad, mad or just plain losers can take our mutterings somewhere else. :-) Paul

23 years, 3 months

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booting 4.3-Quasijarus on SIMH VAX

by mirian＠cosmic.com

I've managed to boot the latest 4.3-Quasijarus0a on Bob Supnik's SIMH VAX emulator. SIMH emulates a MicroVAX 3000, which is one of the currently supported configurations in 4.3-Quasijarus. The way I did it was: First I installed NetBSD 1.5.2/vax on the VAX emulator. I used this to label and newfs the root/usr diskimage for 4.3-Q (it is important to use the -O option to newfs so that NetBSD will create a 4.3-style filesystem. (In all cases, I used RA90 disk images, which are nice and spacious and which both netbsd and 4.3-Q seem to work well with.) Then I restored the root and usr filesystems from the 4.3-Q distribution onto these diskimages, and used the /usr/mdec/installboot command in NetBSD to install the bootblock onto the root diskimage. I created an fstab for it, and also commented out everything in rc* having to do with the network (there's no network device support in SIMH VAX yet). I also commented out all gettys listed in /etc/ttys except for console. Speaking of console, it's important to use something which is as close to a VT-100 as possible. I've been using rxvt, which is pretty good. It seems to be important to disable the RL controller ("set rl disabled" in SIMH) when booting the GENERIC kernel. Otherwise, you get a page fault and panic on boot. (I haven't tracked the cause of this down yet). The GENERIC kernel also expects there to be images on ra0, ra1 and ra2 (which are rq0, rq1 and rq1 in SIMH, respectively). I can get the system to come up in multiuser mode, and I can log in as root. Unfortunately, though, after a few seconds, the system locks up with uda0: lost interrupt uba0: reset uda0 uda0: DMA burst size set to 4 ra0: uda0, unit 0, size = 2376153 sectors Typing ^E to get to the SIMH prompt, and single-stepping the emulator shows it is stuck in the idle loop. At this point, nothing short of shutting down SIMH has any effect. Any thoughts on what might be going wrong? The complete log is included below: --Mirian KA655-B V5.3, VMB 2.7 Performing normal system tests. 40..39..38..37..36..35..34..33..32..31..30..29..28..27..26..25.. 24..23..22..21..20..19..18..17..16..15..14..13..12..11..10..09.. 08..07..06..05..04..03.. Tests completed. >>>boot dua0: (BOOT/R5:0 DUA0) 2.. -DUA0 1..0.. loading boot Boot : /vmunix 327204+103384+130352 start 0x23a8 4.3 BSD Quasijarus UNIX #0: Sat Oct 2 22:15:38 CDT 1999 msokolov@luthien:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC real mem = 67076096 SYSPTSIZE limits number of buffers to 18 avail mem = 65240064 using 18 buffers containing 147456 bytes of memory MicroVAX 3000, ucode rev 6 uda0 at uba0 csr 172150 vec 774, ipl 15 uda0: version 3 model 3 uda0: DMA burst size set to 4 ra0 at uda0 slave 0: mydisk, size = 2376153 sectors ra1 at uda0 slave 1: no disk label: ra90, size = 2376153 sectors ra2 at uda0 slave 2: no disk label: ra90, size = 2376153 sectors ra3 at uda0 slave 3: floppy dz0 at uba0 csr 160100 didn't interrupt dz1 at uba0 csr 160110 didn't interrupt dz2 at uba0 csr 160120 didn't interrupt dz3 at uba0 csr 160130 didn't interrupt Changing root device to ra0a WARNING: todr too small -- CHECK AND RESET THE DATE! Automatic reboot in progress... Sun Aug 19 18:07:26 CDT 2001 /dev/ra0a: 429 files, 5504 used, 26548 free (52 frags, 3312 blocks, 0.0% fragmentation) /dev/rra0d: 2588 files, 21064 used, 968769 free (785 frags, 120998 blocks, 0..0% fragmentation) Sun Aug 19 18:07:58 CDT 2001 checking quotas: done. starting system logger preserving editor files clearing /tmp standard daemons: update cron. starting local daemons:. Sun Aug 19 18:08:01 CDT 2001 4.3 BSD UNIX (kryluk) (console) login: root Last login: Sun Aug 19 17:52:53 on console 4.3 BSD Quasijarus UNIX #0: Sat Oct 2 22:15:38 CDT 1999 Welcome to UNIX! erase ^?, kill ^U, intr ^C # uda0: lost interrupt uba0: reset uda0 uda0: DMA burst size set to 4 ra0: uda0, unit 0, size = 2376153 sectors

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [TUHS] Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386

by P.A.Osborne

> >http://hp.openwatcom.org/ftp/zips/ for the binaries > >http://hp.openwatcom.org/ftp/docs/ for PDFs of the documentation > > Cool! Thanks. > Still, no source code => not much use for porting Unix, unless you > want to be limited to cross-compiling from DOS. (Making the Watcom > binaries run under v6 Unix seems very unlikely since they probably > use fancy 32-bit extenders that know all sorts of esoterica about > DOS memory management...) The reason I want the compiler is that it will generate standalone 16 bit code on a sensible platform. GCC doesnt produce 16 bit code as far as I am aware - so personally I thought it would be amusing (I must be mad) to use tools that run under DOS (well OS/2). > Someone else on the mailing list suggested using old versions of > Tanenbaum's Minix, which has a different set of compilers; again > the problem is, no compiler source code last time I looked at Minix. > > So far the only viable compiler suggestion seems to be the one > from Warner Losh who recommended bcc. (Or, port the PDP-11 compiler > yourself.) I think we are looking at this from different ends, let me try and explain: Initially we need to be able to compile the kernel/system so it runs, I feel that updating the code to ANSI C and using a modern compiler will do the job for that. Eventually it would be nice to be able to get v6-i86 (or whatever we call it) to boot itself and then be able to compile itself - at that point it becomes a complete project. It is however essentially two projects: 1. rewriting the OS so it boots as i86 2. (re)writing a compiler that will run native and be able to compile the OS on its own platform The second part is not essential by any means, but it could by the purists be considered the ultimate goal. Paul

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [TUHS] So now that the source is finally out...

by John Holden

> > I'm fairly sure things like "=+" and so on were replaced with "+=" > > in the move from V6 to V7. > > I thought so too, but I checked, and there are some still in there. I think you'll find that the kernel code is clean, but a lot of the older utilities will show their earlier lineage (including the C compiler)

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [TUHS] So now that the source is finally out...

by Ken Wellsch

> On Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 03:27:25AM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote: > > gcc can compile K&R, but the language has evolved some since the v7 > days. =*, =+, etc became *=, +=, etc. There are some other subtle > things too that I don't recall off the top of my head, but which vexed > the comp.lang.c news groups in the early 1980's. I'm fairly sure things like "=+" and so on were replaced with "+=" in the move from V6 to V7. I think structure assignments were added here too, and the much more obscure, being able to declare passed arguments in the function preamble as "register." I believe K&R reflects the C language as seen with V7... -- Ken

23 years, 3 months

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RE: [TUHS] Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386

by Grant Maizels

Actually I have 8086 C compilers on my old Altos systems (486 and 586) running Xenix. The OS on the 486 is a very early version of Xenix which is really a slightly modified version of v7. If the machine still works (has not been turned on for a few years), I may be able to set it up so that it can be accessed through a terminal server off the internet so that it can be used to do compiles. I think that Microsoft may own the copyrights on these old compilers (not sure), but it would be nice if the source was publicy available (or even binaries). If the machine still works (has not been turned on for a few years), I may be able to set it up so that it can be accessed through a terminal server off the internet so that it can be used to do compiles. The 486 with v7 has an 8086, 512k memory, 12Meg hard disk. With the full V7 OS, including c (lex, yacc, ...) , troff, and some Microsoft add-ons (fortran, cobol, mutimate??) fits in 7 Meg. Grant Maizles P.S. The 486 and 586 names refer to the number of supported users which the machine can handle and the fact that it has a 8086 CPU. The configs were 486 5 Serial ports (1 for a printer) 586 6 Serial ports I had a customer with a 986 which had 10 serial ports. > -----Original Message----- > From: M. Warner Losh [mailto:imp@village.org] > Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 7:54 AM > To: mike(a)ducky.net > Cc: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386 > > > In message: <200201301952.g0UJq0E39966(a)ducky.net> > Mike Haertel <mike(a)ducky.net> writes: > : >Anyhow I have started gathering the tools (Watcom C compiler now > : >open source and free! www.openwatcom.org) > : > : They have announced that it *will be* open source and free, > : but so far as far as I can tell there is nothing available > : at openwatcom.org except a binary-only patch to upgrade > : the last commercial version 11 to 11.0c. > : > : So, it isn't yet. Right now it's just vaporware. > > The only compiler I know of that deals properly with generating 16-bit > x86 code is bcc, which the Elks folks use to build their kernel. This > is Bruce Evan's compiler with support for prototypes bolted on, iirc. > > http://www.cix.co.uk/~mayday/ > > It is a tad Linux centric, but I was able to get it to build with only > a few tweaks on FreeBSD. It is sufficient to build the elks tree, but > I've not tried it on anything else. > > Warner > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs >

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [TUHS] Re: Porting Unix v6 to i386

by John Holden

I think that v7 would be far easier to port than v6. Although it's not much bigger than v6, the code is a lot cleaner, and there are less machine dependencies. One of the reasons for a lot of the changes between v6 and v7 was a conscious effort to make it more portable . The old assignment operators like '=+' changed to "+=". 'Unsigned' and 'long' data types are missing from v6 (and reflected in the kernel), so all integer calculations were 16 bits. Unsigned ops were done using 'char *'. v7 was ported to the Vax and the Interdata. ioctl is there, and the 'standard io' library. The file seek call in v6 had either block (512) or byte offsets, and v7 introduced lseek to replace it. Only 16 bits were used to store block numbers in inodes, so filesystem sizes were restricted (not a real problem since both v6 and v7 could run happily on a 2.5Mb RK05 disk, including swap space and c compiler). 'vi' ran under v7, but v6 only offered 'ed' (or variants like 'em') and 'qed' If you hadn't guessed, v7 is by far my favourite Unix variant. Lean, clean and without the latter clutter of supporting networking in the kernel.

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] solution for the disklabel

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 30, 16:03, Johnny Billquist wrote: > On Wed, 30 Jan 2002, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > Maybe it wants a DEL character instead of backspace (backspace *is* ctrl-H, > > shown as ^H or ^h). Change it on the terminal by going into setup, or use > > stty on the BSD system to change the delete character (stty del '^h'). > > On a real VT100 you cannot get the delete key to generate a backspace. He > must be pressing the backspace key, or he's not using a VT100 at all, but > instead some emulator, which isn't doing things the VT100 way... Of course. I've spent too long using my VT420. A real VT102 has separate delete and backspace keys. Probably he's using some not-really-VT102 emulation in an xterm window or some emulator. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 3 months

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[pups] solution for the disklabel

by lothar felten

the pdp is running 2.11BSD ! the disk has now got a valid disklabel, i got it on the disk by setting all diskparameters without using d (display) and wrote it. after this i could use the display option. installation was no problem, but still i have some questions: my VT102 doesn´t do backspace, i only get ^H. i tried the terminal in ANSI and VT52 mode, no difference. i have some dec boards labeled M7513 does anyone know what this is? i found: M7513 - RQD - RQDXE Q BUS drive interface extension module it is a double height card and it has 3 50pin connectors. the RQDX3 has another connector, i suppose for RX50 floppydrive. can i hook up a 5,25" pc drive? maybe with modifications? --lothar

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] Problems booting PDP11/40 using vtserver

by John Holden

As I and other people mentioned in previous postings, it's likely that your 11/40 is missing memory management or EIS cpu options. In case the legend is missing from your system box (not uncommon), I have updated my web page :- http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/11_40.html to show board numbers and locations

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [TUHS] So now that the source is finally out...

by Ken Wellsch

On Sun, Jan 27, 2002 at 02:03:40PM -0500, norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca wrote: > > > Ken Wellsch: > > I'm fairly sure things like "=+" and so on were replaced with "+=" > > in the move from V6 to V7. > > The V7 C compiler accepted =+, but it still accepted += as well; there was > a lot of code written the old way, and nobody wanted to be forced to convert > everything all at once. Apologies, typical of my terse replies - I was actually concerned with clearing up the possible misconception that "=+" was a "feature" of V7 rather than an "obsolete" holdover from V6. I suppose historic accuracy in this context is of little use, I don't know. I certainly can believe one can find such artifacts in the existing V7 code 8-) Cheers, -- Ken

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] 2.11BSD disklabel-programm

by lothar felten

about the pdp-11/83: swapping cpu and memoryboard does work, but the performance stays the same: none, because i still don´t have any system by now. there is a small difference: the run led stays off all the time, but the system ODT works fine. i suppose this is a problem of passing the signals, but this is only a vague guess. when i boot the TK50 2.11BSD tape, i can get the disklabel program loaded. it asks: Disk? when i try to access the disks, the system hangs. when i access rl(0,0) (RL02 disk drive0) the system just hangs, no response. when i access ra(0,0) (RD54 disk drive0) i get a "menu": d(isplay) D(efault) m(odify) w(rite) q(uit)? i can enter D, then it should write the defaults to the disk. after this i get: d(isplay) D(efault) m(odify) w(rite) q(uit)? i enter d (to see what the program did), and i get: type:MSCP disk:RD54 flags: bytes/sector:512 sectors/track:17 tr (it stops right after tr) i suppose the program is asking the controller about drive parameters, and that´s where it fails. i can wait for hours, i´ll get no response. i can use all the menu, except d=display. i thought that maybe one of the controlles is broken and causes trouble on the qbus (maybe the RL02 controller). is there a way to check all this stuff? i do have some "winchester" controllers for PC/ISA, i could check the disks on a linux pc, no problem, but i don´t want to overwrite something "digital"-specific that i could not restore. those RD54-disks are regular ST506-mfm, right? maybe i should "downsize" the system to the basic elements i need to get it running maybe there really is a bus problem. i´d try this configuration: mem - cpu - rqdx3 - tqk50 (top-bottom) would this be ok? or, instead of using RD54 disks, should i try to use the rl02 as "pair" (one swap, one systemdisk)? i think step by step checking the hardware is the only thing i can do to get the pdp up and running. have a nice weekend -- lothar btw: does anyone know a good book/link about system-architecture, specially harvard- architecture ?

23 years, 3 months

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[pups] Problems booting PDP11/40 using vtserver

by Michael Werner

Hi there, I have my PDP11/40 connected to a MicroVAX 2 (running NetBSD/vax 1.5.2) via serial line and want to boot a 2.9BSD or 2.11BSD using the vtserver software. When I toggle in vtserver's boot code, the first file is being loaded correctly by the PDP. Then, following the instructions in vtserver documentation, the serial line should be used as a serial console - and some text should appear! And this is the problem: I don't get any output. When manually sending characters from the PDP, there is no problem. I've set the serial line characteristics to: Speed 2400, Character Size 8, Modem Control enabled, and RTS/CTS flow control disabled. (I've changed these characteristics in many ways with stty, but still no success...) Using a break-out-box, I switched RTS/CTS and DTR/CTS flow control on and off, forced the CTS line to be on, etc., but it still didn't work. After successfully loading the bootloader via vtserver, the PDP's CPU goes into an endless loop. So, my question: Does anybody know what's going wrong here? Thanks in advance - Michi

23 years, 3 months

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[pups] PDP 11/04

by P.M.Williams

I'm looking for someone in the UK that may have spares for a PDP- 11-04 (KY11-LA). This computer is still in daily use in the University of Sheffield but currently has some problems with the power regulator (H777) Any help would be greatly appreciated.

23 years, 3 months

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Porting Unix v6 to i386

by Sven Dehmlow

Hi, The last few weeks I've thought a lot about porting Unix v6 to the PC. Here are my "results": 1. If you really want to do it, don't do it from scratch. Porting Unix 1:1 maybe the usual way but integrating your code step by step into another Unix or Unix-a-like operating system will surely become much easier as you can test the result in every stage of development. Another benefit is of course that with a little bit of luck you don't have to rewrite all the machine dependent stuff as it might already exist in the other os. If you want to do things this way ELKS (the Linux kernel subset for the 8088) might be a good candidate as it is very simple and by this very easy to understand. Also there is a big Linux/ELKS community which might help you with some problems. 2.Another question is if it is really necessary to port when so many good emulators for the PDP11 exist. Of course a ported Unix is faster than one running on a simulator but is fastness really so important in times where multi-processor machines exist that make your 1.5Ghz machine look like a fool? Also wouldn't a user who needs a professional fast Unix (or a-like) take the newest Linux or one of the BSDs instead of Unix v6? The main reason for porting is from my point of view to get access to the i86's hardware. But for reaching this aim a port isn't necessary. You can either develop the emulated machine further so that it has additional devices (and interupts, etc. for them) or you can try to give the os on the emulated machine direct access to the real machine. This may sound a little bit strange and unusual but will save much code in the emulator as you don't have to code for each device twice (one time in the emulator and one time in the os). Of course the os you're running your emulator on must give you the chance to get direct access to the real hardware, but I found a DOS port from Bob Supniks J-11 emulator so that is not a real problem. Currently I'm working on the latter idea (on the emulator which gives you direct access to the hardware), but in fact I haven't written a line of code yet as I'm still searching for the best way to integrate the interesting parts of PC's memory into PDP11's memory. The idea is to put the interesting parts of PC's memory behind PDP11's memory and to change some lines in Unix that for example malloc doesn't get the idea to give this pieces of memory away to user programs. Putting the PC's memory before the memory space of the PDP11 would as far as I can see make more changes especially in the code relevant for booting necessary. Other things like for example PC's interupts will surely make much less trouble. Suggestions, ideas, opinions, etc. are very welcome. If someone feels the urge to help me with this project it would be very kind if he would let me know ;-) BTW: if someone has patches to the v6 or ported programs it would be very kind if he would send them to me. If I get enough stuff I'll make something like a new Unix v6 distribution. Sven

23 years, 3 months

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[pups] Problems booting PDP11/40 using vtserver

by Michael Werner

Hi there, I have my PDP11/40 connected to a MicroVAX 2 (running NetBSD/vax 1.5.2) via serial line and want to boot a 2.9BSD or 2.11BSD using the vtserver software. When I toggle in vtserver's boot code, the first file is being loaded correctly by the PDP. Then, following the instructions in vtserver documentation, the serial line should be used as a serial console - and some text should appear! And this is the problem: I don't get any output. When manually sending characters from the PDP, there is no problem. I've set the serial line characteristics to: Speed 2400, Character Size 8, Modem Control enabled, and RTS/CTS flow control disabled. (I've changed these characteristics in many ways with stty, but still no success...) Using a break-out-box, I switched RTS/CTS and DTR/CTS flow control on and off, forced the CTS line to be on, etc., but it still didn't work. After successfully loading the bootloader via vtserver, the PDP's CPU goes into an endless loop. So, my question: Does anybody know what's going wrong here? Thanks in advance - Michi

23 years, 3 months

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So now that the source is finally out...

by Rob Becker

who is going to port 7th edition to the i386? (: Rob Becker

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] Problems booting PDP11/40 using vtserver

by John Holden

> I have my PDP11/40 connected to a MicroVAX 2 (running NetBSD/vax > 1.5.2) via serial line and want to boot a 2.9BSD or 2.11BSD using the > vtserver software. 2.11BSD won't work on a PDP11/40, although 2.9BSD should. If the secondary boot loaded, you should get a prompt '40Boot' for your processor. You haven't said how much memory you have. Also, the 11/40 has several cpu options, and the memory management and line time clock options are required for Unix to work. Check that there is a register at 772340. If it is not there, then the memory management options isn't installed. PS The only flow control settyings that will work is XON/XOFF. The DL style interfaces used on all PDP11 consoles, have no useful silo, and interupts for each character input or output. None of the kernels I know support the dataset signals, other than some will assert DTR on open.

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [TUHS] So now that the source is finally out...

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Ken Wellsch: I'm fairly sure things like "=+" and so on were replaced with "+=" in the move from V6 to V7. I think structure assignments were added here too, and the much more obscure, being able to declare passed arguments in the function preamble as "register." I believe K&R reflects the C language as seen with V7... The V7 C compiler accepted =+, but it still accepted += as well; there was a lot of code written the old way, and nobody wanted to be forced to convert everything all at once. Similarly, the V7 compiler complained about implicit conversions between pointers of different types, or between ints and pointers, but they were treated as warnings, not fatal errors; you could still compile old code and just ignore the compiler's fussing. I recall that when I arrived at Bell Labs in 1984, it was apparently not long after the research group's C compiler had been changed to treat all the obsolete stuff as errors; certainly there was still code in /usr/src that hadn't been updated, and all of it had been recompiled recently to run on the VAX. A modern C compiler would choke even on some of the stuff that was legal in those days. Recently I recompiled tbl with lcc, and had a grand time cleaning out all the ideas we all thought were clever in the late 1970s but most of us would never think of doing now. For those with the virgin source handy, take a look at subroutine `point' and the way it is used and abused. Norman Wilson

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [TUHS] So now that the source is finally out...

by Carl Lowenstein

> From: "P.A.Osborne" <P.A.Osborne(a)ukc.ac.uk> > To: "M. Warner Losh" <imp(a)village.org> > Cc: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [TUHS] So now that the source is finally out... > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:16:37 +0000 > > On Fri, Jan 25, 2002 at 03:27:25AM -0700, M. Warner Losh wrote: > > Real as in 286 or as in 8088 :-). > > > > gcc can compile K&R, but the language has evolved some since the v7 > > days. =*, =+, etc became *=, +=, etc. There are some other subtle > > things too that I don't recall off the top of my head, but which vexed > > the comp.lang.c news groups in the early 1980's. > > That makes things a challenge. Still the source of the kernel is > around 10K lines IIRC and going through it in stages doesnt make life > too painfull. Doesn't one of the C beautifiers do that for you (rewrite =+ etc.) Either GNU indent or Berkeley? cb. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu

23 years, 3 months

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[pups] Unix Archive now available anonymously

by Warren Toomey

All, With the new Caldera license, the Unix Archive is now available to you anonymously. You can throw away those passwords now. The list of Archive mirrors is at: http://www.tuhs.org/archive_sites.html and if you can become a mirror, please read http://www.tuhs.org/mirroring.html and send me some e-mail when you are ready to be added to the list. I can tell you that up to now, 2,830 people obtained a SCO Ancient UNIX license, of which 250 had to pay the US$100 to get it. I'll turn off the CGI script which allows you to obtain a SCO license now .... You know this means that Net/2, 4.xBSD and 2.11BSD are all freely available now :) Cheers, Warren

23 years, 3 months

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4.4BSD and the MicroVax 3400

by Rob Becker

Anyone here know if 4.4BSD supports the MicroVax 3400 series of machines? One was given to me by my school (clearing out old equipment) and I would like to get some pure BSD goodness on it again. Also, anyone know if it's possible to make tapes under VMS? Thanks in advance, Rob Becker

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [TUHS] 4.4BSD and the MicroVax 3400

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Rob Becker <becker(a)ab.edu> wrote: > Anyone here know if 4.4BSD supports the MicroVax 3400 series of machines? > > [...] > > get some pure BSD goodness on it again. For VAXen you don't want 4.4BSD, you want 4.3BSD-Quasijarus, especially if you want pure. Unfortunately, I haven't got the KA640 (3300/3400) support in there, just KA650 (3500/3600) and KA655 (3800/3900). It would be trivial to add, though, it just needs to be taught to look at the SIE in addition to the SID, recognise the KA640, and don't try to touch the non-existent B-cache. This wouldn't give you support for the on-board DSSI and Ethernet, but it'll run with your Q-bus devices. MS

23 years, 3 months

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[pups] Re: Caldera license

by Warren Toomey

In article by Milo Velimirovic: > Warren, > The license didn't survive the digestification process on the list -- > Would you be kind enough to send me a copy of the ancient-source.pdf > directly or a URL to it? > > Thanks, > Milo Here it is, Warren http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Caldera-license.pdf

23 years, 3 months

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[pups] Ancient UNIX now under a BSD license

by Warren Toomey

All, Amazing news. I have been negotiating with Caldera to release the Ancient UNIX under a BSD-style license. Well, they got it done faster than I expected. See attached license. I'll start removing the username/password stuff on the Unix Archive soon. Warren

23 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] 2.11BSD disklabel-programm

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 20, 18:45, Jochen Kunz wrote: > > Ahhhhh! My PDP 11 has this M8192 board with FPU but without ROMs... > I thought that this is the "original" 11/73 CPU. But on this PDP is > nothing "original". The BA23 was a MV II, the CPU was EPayed, the RAM > board was given to me by a friend. (Many PC/XTs had to donate there RAM > chips to fill it.) About the best use I can think of for a PC/XT :-) > I found the console SLU at the scrap yard, the Dilog > ESDI controller was EPayd (in England BTW ;-) ) ... and I am still > looking for a ROM card... If you can find an MRV11-D (to put MXV11-B ROMs into) or an MVX11-B, that would be the best option (and the only ones DEC supported). However, it should be possible to put the code from MXV11-B ROMs into several 24-pin 2Kx8 EPROMs (2716 or equivalent), and put the EPROMs into a BDV11. However, you'd want to modify the BDV11 for 22-bit operation (that's ECO 005). > > The BA23 was only rated for one hard disk and either a TK50 or an > RX50, > I know. I once saw a MV II with a second RD54 in an external case. There > was a real mess of wiring to get it and the internal RD54 work together > on one RQDX3. Puting the TK50 out of the BA23 and mounting the second > RD54 in the BA23 would have been much simpler. But not the DEC way of > live. ;-) Because old hard drives take a lot of current. The PSU and wiring loom won't take a full backplane and two hard drives. I did one of mine a different way. I have a BA11-N with the backplane modified to be 22-bit. In it is an RQDX2 (or an RQDX3, depending on what's been shuffled around this month), with a 50-way ribbon cable going to a DEC box (used to be a TKZ50) which has a PSU, a hard drive, and an RX50. In the box is also a small PCB I made to do the job of the distribution board found in a BA123. Also in the BA11-N backplane is a modified BDV11, with a pair of 28-pin EPROM sockets which normally hold microPDP-11/23 boot ROMs. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 4 months

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Re: [pups] 2.11BSD disklabel-programm

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 19, 22:35, jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > Only the first 3 slots are Q/CD. The other 5 slots are Q/Q in serpentine > bus grant wiring. Tony said that the memory should be in the first > slot. Lothar later said this is an H9276-A. That's a straight backplane, all Q22/CD. It seems he has a BA11-S not a BA23 :-) BTW, DEC normally recommended all comms and network cards go after the memory, tapes next, then disks. > AFAIK some 11/73 labeld boxen where sold with a 11/83 CPU in the first > slot and the memory in the second. It's the order of the boards (and the boot ROMs) that make it 11/73 or 11/83, not the circuit board. Though original 11/73s are 15MHz and original 11/83s are 18MHz. > AFAIK a 11/83 CPU can use QBus and (or?) PMI memory. If it is > configured with QBus memory it is calld a "11/73". But keep in mind > that there is a "real" 11/73 CPU (M8192 = KDJ11-A). That's a dual-height board, CPU only, with no boot ROMs, LTC, or SLUs. It was only sold as an OEM product or as an upgrade to 11/03 or 11/23 (not 11/23+ or microPDP-11/23) systems. Whilst it is a "real 11/73", it's no more "real" than any other :-) > Hmm. Are there Q/CD only BA23 backplanes? No. There are straight Q/CD and serpentine Q/Q backplanes of the same size but they're only used in other boxes (like BA11-N and BA11-S) or sold as OEM units. > I never saw a front panel like that, but your assumption sounds right. > All my front panels have only one disk write protect / online switch. The BA23 was only rated for one hard disk and either a TK50 or an RX50, but the BA123 (which uses the same panels) was rated for up to 4 MSCP devices. That's why the WP and ONLINE switches and LEDs are on a subassembly, so you can add another one. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 4 months

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Re: [pups] lcc (was: GCC)

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

lcc is not public-domain nor GPL, but it is freely available for `personal research and instructional use,' and in general there is no restriction as long as you don't redistribute it for profit or resell it. Here's the official scoop, as inscribed in ./CPYRIGHT in the lcc 3.6 distribution. It is possible that the terms have changed for newer versions; I haven't been keeping track. ---- The authors of this software are Christopher W. Fraser and David R. Hanson. Copyright (c) 1991,1992,1993,1994,1995 by AT&T, Christopher W. Fraser, and David R. Hanson. All Rights Reserved. Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software for any purpose, subject to the provisions described below, without fee is hereby granted, provided that this entire notice is included in all copies of any software that is or includes a copy or modification of this software and in all copies of the supporting documentation for such software. THIS SOFTWARE IS BEING PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTY. IN PARTICULAR, NEITHER THE AUTHORS NOR AT&T MAKE ANY REPRESENTATION OR WARRANTY OF ANY KIND CONCERNING THE MERCHANTABILITY OF THIS SOFTWARE OR ITS FITNESS FOR ANY PARTICULAR PURPOSE. lcc is not public-domain software, shareware, and it is not protected by a `copyleft' agreement, like the code from the Free Software Foundation. lcc is available free for your personal research and instructional use under the `fair use' provisions of the copyright law. You may, however, redistribute lcc in whole or in part provided you acknowledge its source and include this CPYRIGHT file. You may, for example, include the distribution in a CDROM of free software, provided you charge only for the media, or mirror the distribution files at your site. You may not sell lcc or any product derived from it in which it is a significant part of the value of the product. Using the lcc front end to build a C syntax checker is an example of this kind of product. You may use parts of lcc in products as long as you charge for only those components that are entirely your own and you acknowledge the use of lcc clearly in all product documentation and distribution media. You must state clearly that your product uses or is based on parts of lcc and that lcc is available free of charge. You must also request that bug reports on your product be reported to you. Using the lcc front end to build a C compiler for the Motorola 88000 chip and charging for and distributing only the 88000 code generator is an example of this kind of product. Using parts of lcc in other products is more problematic. For example, using parts of lcc in a C++ compiler could save substantial time and effort and therefore contribute significantly to the profitability of the product. This kind of use, or any use where others stand to make a profit from what is primarily our work, requires a license agreement with Addison-Wesley. Per-copy and unlimited use licenses are available; for more information, contact J. Carter Shanklin Addison Wesley Longman, Inc. 2725 Sand Hill Rd. Menlo Park, CA 94025 415/854-0300 x2478 FAX: 415/614-2930 jcs(a)aw.com ----- Chris Fraser / cwfraser(a)microsoft.com David Hanson / drh(a)cs.princeton.edu $Revision: 1.3 $ $Date: 1996/09/30 13:55:00 $

23 years, 4 months

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Re: [pups] 2.11BSD disklabel-programm

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 20, 12:44, jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > On 19 Jan, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > Not the 54- number, that's only the PCB part. The backplane itself has > >a model number; for a BA23 it should be H9728-A. > "H9728-A"? The sticker on the two BA23 backplanes I have here says > "H9278-A". Typo. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 4 months

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Re: AW: [pups] 2.11BSD disklabel-programm

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 20, 2:05, lothar felten wrote: > mine is about 40 inch high, 19 inch wide and > as deep as > the rl02 is. the "microcomputer interfaces > 1983-84" shows > some pictures of boxes: is might be the > BA11-S Sounds like you have what was a standard PDP-11/23 (or maybe 11/23+) system in an office-type cabinet (H9642 or equivalent), with an RL02 in the top, a stiffener panel, BA11-N or BA11-S box, a second RL02, and two blanking plates at the bottom. Sometimes people moved the second RL02 down 3U and put one blanking plate or an expansion box between the BA11 and the RL02. As far as I remember, the only significant difference between a BA11-N and a BA11-S is an uprated power supply, and a 22-bit backplane instead of an 18-bit one (but you can upgrade the 18-bit ones). > on the backplane i found H9276-A. > i don´t know what -A means, but it should be > a Q22/CD > so no serpentine? Correct. There is a very similar backplane H9275-A which is all serpentine, but not in a standard 11/23 box, as far as I remember. H9276-A is for a BA11-S. BA11-N uses H9273. > now i´ve got the numbers here: > CPU: M8190-AE KDJ11-B > MEM: M7551-CC MSVC11-QC > RL02: M8061 > DELQA: M7516 > RQDX3: M7555 > DEQNA: M7546 OK. That should be fine, so long as there are no gaps in the A/B slots (left side of backplane as you look into it from the back of the machine) between the cards. The original 11/23+ probably had an RQDX1 or RQDX2, and possibly an RLV11, and certainly different memory. > hmmm, this is really confusing, since i have > AE can it take an FPU? maybe it has a fpu? what > does the fpu look like? The -AE means it's a later board, should be 18MHz, and should not only be FPU-capable, it should actually have the FPJ-11 chip on it. -AD is the same thing without the FPJ-11 fitted (it still does floating point ops, just more slowly). If not, you'll probably find it easier to get a replacement board with an FPU already on it, rather than get the FPU chip on it's own. > > However, the biggest difference between 11/83 and 11/73 is whether > > memory is used as QBus memory, or PMI memory, which is faster. the > > so i should put in first memory then cpu. To get the best performance, yes. It won't double the speed, or anything like that, but it will go a bit faster. > well it´s a BA11-S i suppose by now. If it's an H9276 backplane and H7861 PSU, yes. > a weird pdp. Not quite factory-standard :-) But none the less good. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 4 months

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Re: [pups] 2.11BSD disklabel-programm

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 19, 20:47, lothar felten wrote: > hi there! > > well the pdp was once a pdp 11/23+ so > enclosure and backplane should be > the same as a 11/23 (ba 23). If I were to be really picky, I'd say you meant microPDP-11/23. 11/23-plus would mean a BA11-S enclosure with a different type of backplane :-) > backplane should > be Q22/CD configuration, but > i´ll open the box and look for the 501- > number to be sure. Not the 54- number, that's only the PCB part. The backplane itself has a model number; for a BA23 it should be H9728-A. In an H9728-A the top three slots are Q22/CD-interconnect, and the rest are Q22/Q22 serpentine (the 11/23-plus backplanes are different). When I replied to your earlier email I assumed you just gave the order of the boards, not the layout. The layout should be (reverse the positions of CPU and memory if you wish): ---------KDJ11-B-CPU--------- ---------MSV11-memory-------- ------------RLV12------------ ----RQDX3---- ----TQK50---- empty ----DEQNA---- I'm guessing you have a single memory board, probably an MSV11-Q (M7551), and an RLV12 (M8061, one quad board) rather than an RLV11 (two quad boards) -- if not, that makes a difference to the layout. I'm also guessing at a DEQNA (M7504) rather than any other Ethernet controller, but it makes no difference to the placement, so long as it's a dual-height board. If you added another dual-height board it would go under the RQDX3 (M7555), the next would go under that, and the next under the DELQA, etc. The arrangement of the slots after the first three is called "serpentine" or occasionally "zig-zag". > on the back there > is a sticker saying this is a 11/73. the > cpu-board is a 11/83.(i´ll pass > the number too). All the KDJ11-B processors, whether 11/73 or 11/83, use the same printed circuit board and module number. There were some differences about whether an FPU could be fitted (due to an error on the original boards); those that would not take an FPU were only sold as KDJ11-BC and all had 15MHz clocks. Others with 15MHz clocks were sold as KDJ11-BB (upgradeable but FPU not fitted). There are also some with 18MHz clocks, these were sold as KDJ11-BE, -BF, or higher. Normally an 11/83 has a KDJ11-BE or higher suffix. Early 11/73 are 15MHz. Just to add to the confusion, the -Bx suffix actually refers to the EPROMs on the board, not the clock speed or the FPU. The *only* difference between a normal KDJ11-BE or -BF or -BH is the firmware in the EPROMs. However, the biggest difference between 11/83 and 11/73 is whether the memory is used as QBus memory, or PMI memory, which is faster. All of the KDJ11-B boards can use PMI memory. Beware, not all quad memory boards are PMI-capable, but all the 1MB and bigger ones that I can think of are. > do all 11/83 use PMI ? Yes. They will work with QBus memory instead (and if you put a PMI board after the processor instead of before it, it will run as normal QBus memory) but then what you have is effectively an 11/73, not an 11/83. > but the memory seems to work, or has > the cpu board some memory on it? No, there's no memory on the CPU board, but the memory you have is running as QBus memory. > when i picked up the box they booted it, i > suppose this configuration was the > way they used it there and should have > worked. > the RD54 controller has a 50pin ribboncable > wich goes to a small board (wich > was hanging on the backside) and a small > frontpanel (from a 11/83 or 73) was > hanging on it. Literally "hanging"? Not fixed to the front of the BA23? Is this actually a floor-standing (or possibly rack-mounting) BA23 with space for a TK50 and a drive unit, or a rackmount BA11-S or BA11-N chassis with no space for drives? > it looks like > > ************* > * *'''''* O is a round hole (to hold a batch?) > * O *'''''* '' is a big hole (power switch i suppose) > * *'''''* > ************* > * X B * X = run on/off ?(green led) B = reset ? > * X X * X = write protect (red) X = online(green) for disk 0 ? > * X X * X = write protect (red) X = online(green) for disk 1 ? > ************* > X is a switch with led B is a button with led > i never saw a pdp with this frontpanel Neither have I. DEC used pushbuttons for the disk controls on microPDP-11 panels. Each section is separate, though; it sounds like someone has replaced the pushbuttons or used third-party sub-panels. The round hole (if this is an original DEC panel) is for the badge that says whether it's a microPDP-11/23, microPDP-11/73, microPDP-11/83, microPDP-11/53, etc. The rectangular hole is for the power switch in a BA23 or BA123 cabinet. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 4 months

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Re: [pups] 2.11BSD disklabel-programm

by lothar felten

hi there! well the pdp was once a pdp 11/23+ so enclosure and backplane should be the same as a 11/23 (ba 23). backplane should be Q22/CD configuration, but i´ll open the box and look for the 501- number to be sure. on the back there is a sticker saying this is a 11/73. the cpu-board is a 11/83.(i´ll pass the number too). do all 11/83 use PMI ? but the memory seems to work, or has the cpu board some memory on it? when i picked up the box they booted it, i suppose this configuration was the way they used it there and should have worked. the RD54 controller has a 50pin ribboncable wich goes to a small board (wich was hanging on the backside) and a small frontpanel (from a 11/83 or 73) was hanging on it. it looks like ************* * *'''''* O is a round hole (to hold a batch?) * O *'''''* '' is a big hole (power switch i suppose) * *'''''* ************* * X B * X = run on/off ?(green led) B = reset ? * X X * X = write protect(red led) X = online(green led) for disk 0 ? * X X * X = write protect(red led) X = online(green led) for disk 1 ? ************* X is a switch with led B is a button with led i never saw a pdp with this frontpanel, and since there is nothing written on it, i tried to compare with a picture found on the web, but i´m not sure if i´m right. can someone tell me if i´m right ? i asked those guys from where i picked up the box, but they told me that the last guy using the pdp left some years ago, and in 1999 they just powered it off. this explains also the small paper sticking on the pdp that showed how to login and shutdown the box. root password is written on it *g*. tomorrow i´ll open the box again. thanks for your fast response. -- lothar FWIW, I don't know about the tape error, but that layout looks OK apart >from the fact that if it's an 11/83, the memory shold be in the first slot and the CPU in the second. The essential difference between an 11/73 and an 11/83 is that the 11/83 uses PMI memory. Assuming your backplane is the right one, in a BA23 or BA123 box, and that your memory is a single 4MB board, you should swap them round, otherwise what you actually have is an 11/73. I assume your RD54 controller is a genuine DEC RQDX3, so it's in the right place. It's possible you have an old version of the firmware on it, but it should still work even if you do. all the planes in the backplane are genuine dec parts. -- Pete What enclosure? BA23? If yes you have empty slots between the cards as this box has 3 Q/CD slots on top and 5 Q/Q slots below. Have a look at the QBus HOWTO at http://vaxarchive.sevensages.org/ -- tschuess, Jochen

23 years, 4 months

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[pups] Re: GCC

by Aaron J. Grier

On Thu, Jan 17, 2002 at 08:36:05AM +0100, Lars Brinkhoff wrote: > Hello, > > Is anyone using GCC to compile code for the PDP-11? on the PDP or cross-compiled? (will gcc run under 2.11?) -- Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier(a)poofygoof.com "Making people dance so hard their pants almost fall off is kind of fun." -- David Evans

23 years, 4 months

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RE: [pups] Re: GCC

by Davidson, Steve

Johnny, I have access to both RT-11 and RSTS/E systems here. I would be happy to give the testing a shot. My preference would be RT first, and then if you get no other takers, RSTS. Regards, Steve > -----Original Message----- > From: Johnny Billquist [SMTP:bqt@update.uu.se] > Sent: Saturday, January 19, 2002 10:13 > To: SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com > Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [pups] Re: GCC > > On Sat, 19 Jan 2002 SHOPPA(a)TRAILING-EDGE.COM wrote: > > > Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> writes: > > > DECUS C might be a better starting point. > > > > DECUS C is kind-of a funny case. Whereas most C compilers are > > traditionally maintained and distributed as C source code, DECUS C > > is distributed and maintained in PDP-11 assembly language. > > True. > > > For other C compilers, a significant milestone was when they were > > rewritten in C and compiled themselves. DECUS C is the odd guy out > because > > it never tried to reach this milestone. In some sense this is a good > thing, > > because it lets you build it on a machine without any access to any C > compiler. > > Which definitely is a good thing in this case. Since most systems don't > have a C compiler anyway, the first compiler have to get down there > someway, and MACRO-11 is the only language you *know* exist. > > I'm soon done with a cleanup of DECUS-C by the way. I've tried to collect > all the different versions I can find, and incorporated my own fixes as > well. This version will support I/D space correctly in RSX (which no other > version except my in-house hacks have done), will have a working profiler > again, and also supports RMS and DAP. Fun fun... > I'm testing it right now, and most things looks like they are working like > a charm. > However, if someone have plenty of time, and an RSTS/E or RT-11 system > around, I'd sure appreciate some help. I've tried to keep those parts > up-to-date as well, but I cannot test, or fix broken things. > > This compiler have been a mess for many years now... About time it got > some cleanup. > > Oh. And I don't know if Allan Baldwin (sp?) have some extra hacks in for > his IP-stack, and I haven't even investigated. > Anyone know? > > Johnny > > Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus > || on a psychedelic trip > email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books > pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol > > _______________________________________________ > PUPS mailing list > PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups

23 years, 4 months

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Re: [pups] 2.11BSD disklabel-programm

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Jan 19, 12:43, lothar felten wrote: > i don´t know if this is a hardware (bus?) > error, or maybe the tape is bad. > the tapes i use are unused original dec TK50 > tapes, i made several ones, because i thought > it might be a tape error, but > all tapes are the same. > > hardware: > PDP-11/83, 4megs of ram, TK50, two RD54 > (maxtor), two RL02 disks. > qbus cards (top to bottom): > *cpu (quad) > *memory (quad) > *controller for RL02 disks (quad) > *controller for RD54 disks (double) > *controller for TK50 (double) > *network controller (double) FWIW, I don't know about the tape error, but that layout looks OK apart from the fact that if it's an 11/83, the memory shold be in the first slot and the CPU in the second. The essential difference between an 11/73 and an 11/83 is that the 11/83 uses PMI memory. Assuming your backplane is the right one, in a BA23 or BA123 box, and that your memory is a single 4MB board, you should swap them round, otherwise what you actually have is an 11/73. I assume your RD54 controller is a genuine DEC RQDX3, so it's in the right place. It's possible you have an old version of the firmware on it, but it should still work even if you do. > i didn´t find a kind of terminator, but i > didn´t change the order of the > cards since i picked the box up. > there are no empty slots between the cards, > and i´m not sure if the Qbus > need a special terminator. There normally isn't an extra terminator in an 11/73 or 11/83, unless you add an expansion backplane. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

23 years, 4 months

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Re: [pups] Re: GCC

by SHOPPA＠TRAILING-EDGE.COM

Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> writes: > DECUS C might be a better starting point. DECUS C is kind-of a funny case. Whereas most C compilers are traditionally maintained and distributed as C source code, DECUS C is distributed and maintained in PDP-11 assembly language. For other C compilers, a significant milestone was when they were rewritten in C and compiled themselves. DECUS C is the odd guy out because it never tried to reach this milestone. In some sense this is a good thing, because it lets you build it on a machine without any access to any C compiler. Tim.

23 years, 4 months

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[pups] 2.11BSD disklabel-programm

by lothar felten

hi there, maybe someone can help me installing 2.11BSD on a PDP-11/83. my problem: the standalone disklabel-programm stops when displaying the MSCP disk information. in the console ODT i write/see: BOOT MU0 Starting system from mu0 83Boot from tms(0,0,0) at 0174500 :tms(0,1) disklabel Disk? ra(0,0) d(isplay) D(efault) m(odify) w(rite) q(uit)? d type:MSCP disk:RD54 flags: bytes/sector: 512 sectors/reack: 17 tr and then it just stops, right after "tr", but the RUN led stays on. when i try to disklabel a RL02 disk i get invalid disk (for rl(0,1)) or a system stop (for rl(0,0) with RUN led off). i don´t know if this is a hardware (bus?) error, or maybe the tape is bad. the tapes i use are unused original dec TK50 tapes, i made several ones, because i thought it might be a tape error, but all tapes are the same. hardware: PDP-11/83, 4megs of ram, TK50, two RD54 (maxtor), two RL02 disks. qbus cards (top to bottom): *cpu (quad) *memory (quad) *controller for RL02 disks (quad) *controller for RD54 disks (double) *controller for TK50 (double) *network controller (double) i didn´t find a kind of terminator, but i didn´t change the order of the cards since i picked the box up. there are no empty slots between the cards, and i´m not sure if the Qbus need a special terminator. i made a TK50 boottape on my DECstation 5000/200. i got the software from the pups archive, and made the tape with the "maketape" program. any idea welcome. regards, --lothar

23 years, 4 months

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[pups] Re: GCC

by bwc＠borf.com

I got Dennis' sixth edtion compiler to compile not long ago. It's definitly not ANSI C, in fact it's not quite K&R C, but I really like coding in it. My advice would be to start there. Just check out the chapter on precidence parsing in the dragon book before you work on the compiler. Brantley Coile

23 years, 4 months

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[pups] GCC

by Lars Brinkhoff

Hello, Is anyone using GCC to compile code for the PDP-11? -- Lars Brinkhoff http://lars.nocrew.org/ Linux, GCC, PDP-10 Brinkhoff Consulting http://www.brinkhoff.se/ programming

23 years, 4 months

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Re: UNIX-based Mallet(t)

by Warren Toomey

In article by Mark E. Mallett: > Somebody pointed me at this URL: > http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/pups/2000-January/000152.html > > and others where the question of the UNIX-based mallet was being > discussed. It's me.. some time in the mid-80s I had submitted a > number of entries to the calendar file and I had jokingly suggested > that my birthday could also be included. And apparently it was. > > I enjoy seeing it pop up every August. I notice that some calendar > files now actually explain it, which I think is a pity :-) > -- > Mark E. Mallett | http://www.mv.com/users/mem/ > MV Communications, Inc. | http://www.mv.com/ > NH Internet Access since 1991 | (603) 629-0000 / FAX: 629-0049 I think a few people are going to be relieved to know the answer. Can you tell us which versions of the calendar file actually explain it, as I've not seen them. Thanks for this, Warren

23 years, 4 months

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[pups] Qbus IDE adapter

by Chuck Dickman

I have been playing with a Qbus to IDE drive adapter for a while, and with some free time this Christmas, I got around to working on it and documenting it. You can find information here: http://www.chd.dyndns.org/qbus_ide/ In summary, I have designed and built a Q22-Bus to ATA disk adapter and written drivers for 2.11BSD on my microPDP-11/73. The adapter is PIO only (for now) and the driver only works with LBA capable disks. I posted this to the NetBSD/vax mailing list last week. If there is sufficient interest, we might be able to get boards made. Someone is writing a NetBSD driver and I have a 2.11BSD driver already. -chuck

23 years, 4 months

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Anybody want 3B2 or 6300+ software/documentation/hardware?

by Warren Toomey

All, Aharon Robbins just passed this on to me. Maybe some of you are interested in this. Warren ----- Forwarded message from Aharon Robbins ----- From: Aharon Robbins <arnold(a)skeeve.com> To: wkt(a)tuhs.org Subject: would any of this be useful to TUHS? I am cleaning out my attic. What does that mean?? It means a lot of AT&T documentation and software needs to find a home to avoid ending in the dumpster. I have documentation and sfotware for the 6300+ and the 3B2. Some of it still in the original shrink-wrap. And yes, this is on topic. I also have quite a bit of software and documentation for the Unix-PC as well. Much of this still in the original packaging. OS, Development sets, utilities. everything must go. I also have three complete Unix-PC's and two without disks or heads but with functional motherboards. At least all of this stuff was functional the last time I actually turned any of them on. I have one that I just fired up (that's already been claimed) to test it and it works fine, so i assume the same is true of the others. I would probably be willing to let all of them go at this point. Nice machines, but my PDP's and VAXen need the room. Now the only string. I will not ship any of this. it is located in NEPA in the Scranton/Wilkes-Barre area and must be collected. And it must be soon. One person can claim it all and then ship it to others if they wish, or people can email me asking for particular packages. First come, first served. If you know of any other places where there might be interest in the 3B2 or 6300+ stuff feel free to forward this message. All the best. bill ----- End of forwarded message from Aharon Robbins -----

23 years, 5 months

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[pups] New FTP Mirror of the Unix Archive

by Warren Toomey

All, Sergey Poznyakoff in the Ukraine has set up an ftp mirror of the Unix Archive. It's at tuhs.org.ua. Thanks Sergey! Warren

23 years, 6 months

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RE: [TUHS] HP 712& v6 or v7

by Ian King

But there's nothing like the rush of warmed, slighly phenolic air from the cooling fans of an old minicomputer - I've noticed the furnace doesn't kick on when the 11/34 is running. (Of course, when I flip on the RM02s, the breaker trips....) -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Derrik Walker v2.0 [mailto:firebug@apk.net] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 11:03 AM To: Ian King Cc: tuhs(a)tuhs.org Subject: Re: [TUHS] HP 712& v6 or v7 On Monday, November 12, 2001, at 01:31 PM, Ian King wrote: > Derrik, you're missing the point: what's the fun of doing it the easy > way? :-) Seriously, though, I think you'd have a couple of serious > problems: the assembly language components (which are not > inconsiderable in V6) would need to be rewritten, and then there's > also the question of whether you could find a sufficiently > "undisciplined" C compiler to handle pre-ANSI C, to build the rest of > the system. > Actually, I like playing with emulators - they use a LOT less power than real computers :) HP-UX comes with a REAL K&R c compiler that wont handle ANY ANSI stuff. It's used to rebuild the kernel, but you can use it to build K&R C programs too. That should be usable for the kernel C routines and utilities. But as you pointed out, the assembly stuff you have to be rewritten. Also, you'd have to deal with disk and tty drivers. firebug(a)apk.net http://junior.apk.net/~firebug ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- Worriers may get all the glory, but it's engineers that build societies. -- B`Elanna Torres, "Star Trek: Voyager"

23 years, 6 months

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RE: [TUHS] HP 712& v6 or v7

by Ian King

Derrik, you're missing the point: what's the fun of doing it the easy way? :-) Seriously, though, I think you'd have a couple of serious problems: the assembly language components (which are not inconsiderable in V6) would need to be rewritten, and then there's also the question of whether you could find a sufficiently "undisciplined" C compiler to handle pre-ANSI C, to build the rest of the system. -- Ian, running UNIX 6th Ed. on a PDP-11/34a -----Original Message----- From: Derrik Walker v2.0 [mailto:firebug@apk.net] Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 8:29 AM To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org Subject: Re: [TUHS] HP 712& v6 or v7 On Tuesday, November 6, 2001, at 07:34 PM, Paul Hart wrote: > On Sun, 4 Nov 2001, Mike Allison wrote: > >> Anyone tried/interested or successful in getting a copy of v6 or v7 >> up on a HP 9000 712? > > Are you sure it was ever ported to PA-RISC? As far as I am aware, > PA-RISC > (and the HP 9000 712) weren't developed until long after the days of V6 > and V7 UNIX. Wouldn't it be easier to just get the PDP-11 emulator from gatekeeper.dec.com and compile it for HP-UX or Linux on the 712? I've compiled it on Solaris 8, Linux, and Mac OS X, so it should compile just fine under HP-UX. Also, as far as I am aware ( and keep in mind, I am an HP-UX system admin. ) HP-UX has only ever been System V. You can run HP-UX, Linux, or NetBSD on a HP-9000/{800,700}. - Derrik firebug(a)apk.net http://junior.apk.net/~firebug ------------------------------------------------------------------------ --------------------------- They seem to have learned the habit of cowering before authority even when not actually threatened. How very nice for authority. I decided not to learn this particular lesson. -- Richard Stallman _______________________________________________ TUHS mailing list TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

23 years, 6 months

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[pups] UNIX "time-line"

by asmodai＠unixware.org.uk

Hi guys, I'm working on a UNIX time-line database. Its pretty basic atm - I've yet to hunt down the majority of SysV vendors out there. I'm currently looking for early releases, and V6/V7 offshoots (such as PWB). The data I'm looking for is vendor, strain, version, and date of release (such as AIX, version 4.3.2, released 05/10/1998, SVR4, IBM etc) Does anyone know of any sites that would give that kind of information for the V6/V7 and earlier releases? The database is currently at http://www.unixware.org.uk/test.php. There isn't much to look at atm, I've yet to code the PHP interface, thought it would be best to complete the database first though :-) I'm hoping that, one day, it will contain a complete listing of all UNIX releases, clones, and offshoots... well, I can dream ;-) Regards, Paul.

23 years, 6 months

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Re: [pups] Trouble with 2.11BSD and CQD-220

by Steven M. Schultz

Hi - > From: "Chuck Dickman" <chd_1(a)nktelco.net> > Combining what Steven and Tom have said and looking at ra.c > in standalone, I think I have a working version of rauboot now. Congratulations! It's a Good Thing when folks who encounter a problem can also provide a fix :-) If Tim Shoppa has a chance it'd be nice to confirm that the Viking adaptor is happy with the changed rauboot (it should be but...). Thanks again for the fix. Steven Schultz sms(a)2bsd.com

23 years, 6 months

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Re: [pups] Trouble with 2.11BSD and CQD-220

by Steven M. Schultz

Hi - > From: Tom Ivar Helbekkmo <tih(a)Hamartun.Priv.NO> > Not exactly. You and I actually worked this out together back in > 1995, when I was figuring out how to get Reno to boot my VAX using a > CQD-220. :-) You don't have to present any interrupt vector, but you Has it been that long? ;) > shouldn't lie to the controller about this. Instead of setting the But if you do present a vector then everything should work, right? The problem isn't in the standalone 'ra' driver though - that seems to be working. The boot block though ends up in an endless loop during the 'online the unit' command (after the initialization). > "please interrupt" bit in the MSCP datagram, and waiting for the > controller to set the "I've interrupted now" bit, you should set the > "controller owns this datagram now" bit, and wait for it to clear it. > This make much better sense, anyway, while running in polled mode. True. I'd have to look at the mdec/rauboot.s sources to see exactly what it is doing (or not doing ;)). The change Tim Shoppa made was to specify a vector and that did the trick for the Viking controller. Steven

23 years, 6 months

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Re: [pups] Trouble with 2.11BSD and CQD-220

by Steven M. Schultz

hi - > From: "Chuck Dickman" <chd_1(a)nktelco.net> > fine. Except... I cannot get it to boot directly from the SCSI drive. > > More detail.... The processor is an 11/73 and the SCSI controller is a > CMD CQD-220 with a Fujitsu 220MB drive. The CQD-220 is set as the primary > MSCP controller and an RQDX3 with an RX50 drive as the secondary MSCP... > > .: ra(0,0,0)unix > > boots unix from the SCSI drive. > > When booting from the SCSI drive, the boot sector is loaded into memory > and then relocated. It hangs waiting for the MSCP controller to respond. > I have not diagnosed it to the command that hangs. Bug in the CMD controller but CMD isn't unique - others have had the problem as well. The bug is that the controller insists on an interrupt vector being presented during the 3 or 4 step initialization protocol. The 2BSD boot block code is running without interrupts enabled and does not provide an interrupt vector. The result is an endless loop waiting for the controller to say it is done. > Is anybody else booting 2.11BSD directly from a drive attached to a > CQD-220? Perhaps the appended patch (#432) will be of use ;) The patchlevel of the 2.11 in the PUPS archive is 431 if I looked at the right direcctory (you can check the rev level by looking at the first couple lines of /VERSION). Patch rauboot.s and reinstall the bootblock - I think that will fix your problem of booting directly from the CMD attached disk. Steven Schultz sms(a)2bsd.com ------------------------cut here---------------------- Subject: Y2K troff fix, 4.3compat remnant removed, misc cleanup (#432) Index: share/tmac/{tman.an.new,tmac.s},sys/sys/{several},others 2.11BSD Description: 1. The 'ms', 'man' and 'me' troff macro packages do not correctly handle dates past 1999. 2. There was some unused 4.3BSD compatibility code lingering in the kernel taking up I space. 3. Kermit coredumps with an illegal system call. 4. rlogin(1), resolver(3), contained some Vax/Sun/4.3BSD conditional code that was no longer needed. 5. The MSCP bootblock could not boot disks attached to a TD Systems Viking MSCP controller. 6. /etc/rc.local uses strings(1) on the kernel image instead of simply asking the kernel for its version information with "sysctl kern.version". There's no reason why /etc/motd needs to be publically writeable. 7. sysctl 'kern.ostype' and 'kern.osrelease' return the same information which is silly (and a bit useless). 8. BSD in param.h was defined as "211" which makes date/time comparisons meaningless ("#if BSD > 199910"). Repeat-By: 1. Format a document that uses the "-ms" macro package and has dates in it. Notice that the date will be "October 6, 19100" instead of "October 6 2000". 2 - 4. Observation. 5. Have a MSCP disk attached to a TD Viking Systems controller. The boot block will go into an endless loop waiting for the controller to respond. 6 - 7. Observation. Fix: A big thank you to Frank Wortnet for spotting and fixing the troff macros. Thanks to Tim Shoppa for tracking down the problem with the Viking MSCP controller and providing the tweek to the RA bootblock. I forget who submitted the suggestion that /etc/motd not be publically writeable. Thanks. The remaining parts of the update are various odds and ends that have been gathering since May or June 2000 but never made it out as an update due to time contraints. When the 4.3 compatibility code was ripped out a couple parts were overlooked. They're not used and just take up space in the kernel (a few bytes here, a few bytes there and fitting the overlays together is made harder than it need be) and also slowed the system slightly due to calling 'helper' functions (function call/return are fairly expensive). Another overlooked item when the compatibility code was removed was the Kermit program. At the time the old system calls were removed it was necessary to rebuild the entire system from sources. Kermit is (due to its size) not rebuilt along with the rest of the system. Thus, if you attempt to run Kermit it coredumps with an illegal system call. All that is needed is a recompile (takes about an hour). Having sysctl(3) return the same information for 'kern.ostype' and 'kern.osrelease' was a mistake. This has been changed to be more useful. 'sysctl kern.ostype' now returns "BSD" and 'sysctl kern.osrelease' returns "2.11". In <sys/param.h> the BSD define has been changed from 211 to 200005 (year 2000, month 5) to more accurately reflect the system's capabilities. Basically 'BSD' has changed from an encoded release value to a stylized date value. Sections of the kernel (and several userland programs) which relied on "#if BSD < 43" to select old compatibility features were modified or removed as a result of changing the meaning of 'BSD' in param.h. Indeed much of the size of the patch is directly related to the change in param.h rlogin(1) was cleaned up. Standard include files were used rather than locally declaring functions such as index(3) and so on. As long as rlogin was being worked on the sources and the manpage were relocated in accordance with the convention that the manpage source goes into the sourcecode directory. The update kit below is a shar file containing 4 files: 432.patch = a file to be fed thru patch(1) 432.sh = a shell script to rearrange rlogin(1)'s files 432.rm = a shell script to remove old rlogin(1) files 432.shar = a shar file of rlogin(1)'s new Makefile The two shell scripts are small (just two or three commands each). The commands could of course be typed in manually if desired. To install the update cut where indicated below and save to a file (/tmp/432) and then: cd /tmp sh 432 ./432.sh ./432.rm sh 432.shar patch -p0 < 432.patch Watch carefully for any rejected parts of the patch. Failure of a patch typically means the system was not current on all preceeding updates _or_ that local modifications have been made. Next rebuild Kermit if this has not previously been done: cd /usr/src/new/kermit5.188 make bsd211 cp wermit /usr/new/kermit make clean The updated troff macros are installed next: cd /usr/src/share/me make install cd /usr/src/share/tmac make install It is not required to build a new kernel at this time since the only changes were to remove code that was not being used. One reason to build a new kernel would be to make sure the overlay structure is still valid: cd /sys/YOUR_KERNEL make clean make and then install as usual Lastly the MSCP bootblock is recompiled and installed in /mdec: cd /sys/mdec install -m 444 rauboot /mdec/rauboot make clean As always this and previous updates to 2.11BSD are available via anonymous FTP to either FTP.IIPO.GTEGSC.COM or MOE.2BSD.COM in the directory /pub/2.11BSD. ============================cut here=========================== #! /bin/sh # This is a shell archive, meaning: # 1. Remove everything above the #! /bin/sh line. # 2. Save the resulting text in a file. # 3. Execute the file with /bin/sh (not csh) to create: # 432.rm # 432.sh # 432.shar # 432.patch # This archive created: Fri Oct 13 21:52:42 2000 export PATH; PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:$PATH if test -f '432.rm' then echo shar: "will not over-write existing file '432.rm'" else sed 's/^B//' << \SHAR_EOF > '432.rm' B B#!/bin/sh B Brm -f /usr/src/man/man1/rlogin.1 Brm -f /usr/src/ucb/rlogin.c SHAR_EOF chmod 755 '432.rm' fi if test -f '432.sh' then echo shar: "will not over-write existing file '432.sh'" else sed 's/^B//' << \SHAR_EOF > '432.sh' B#!/bin/sh B Bset -e Bumask 22 B Bmkdir -p /usr/src/ucb/rlogin Bcp -p /usr/src/ucb/rlogin.c /usr/src/ucb/rlogin/rlogin.c Bcp -p /usr/src/man/man1/rlogin.1 /usr/src/ucb/rlogin/rlogin.1 SHAR_EOF chmod 755 '432.sh' fi if test -f '432.shar' then echo shar: "will not over-write existing file '432.shar'" else sed 's/^B//' << \SHAR_EOF > '432.shar' B#! /bin/sh B# This is a shell archive, meaning: B# 1. Remove everything above the #! /bin/sh line. B# 2. Save the resulting text in a file. B# 3. Execute the file with /bin/sh (not csh) to create: B# /usr/src/ucb/rlogin/Makefile B# This archive created: Thu Oct 12 21:10:13 2000 Bexport PATH; PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:$PATH Bif test -f '/usr/src/ucb/rlogin/Makefile' Bthen B echo shar: "will not over-write existing file '/usr/src/ucb/rlogin/Makefile'" Belse Bsed 's/^Z//' << \SHAR_EOF > '/usr/src/ucb/rlogin/Makefile' BZ# BZ# Public Domain. 1996/11/16 - Steven Schultz BZ# BZ# @(#)Makefile 1.0 (2.11BSD) 2000/5/17 BZ# BZCFLAGS= -O BZSEPFLAG= -i BZSRCS= rlogin.c BZOBJS= rlogin.o BZMAN= rlogin.0 BZMANSRC= rlogin.1 BZ BZall: rlogin rlogin.0 BZ BZrlogin: ${OBJS} BZ ${CC} ${CFLAGS} ${SEPFLAG} -o $@ ${OBJS} BZ BZrlogin.0: ${MANSRC} BZ /usr/man/manroff ${MANSRC} > ${MAN} BZ BZclean: BZ rm -f ${OBJS} ${MAN} rlogin tags BZ BZdepend: ${SRCS} BZ mkdep ${CFLAGS} ${SRCS} BZ BZinstall: rlogin BZ install -c -o bin -g bin -m 444 ${MAN} ${DESTDIR}/usr/man/cat1 BZ install -s -o root -g bin -m 4755 rlogin ${DESTDIR}/usr/ucb/rlogin BZ BZlint: ${SRCS} BZ lint -hax ${SRCS} BZ BZtags: ${SRCS} BZ ctags ${SRCS} BZ# DO NOT DELETE THIS LINE -- mkdep uses it. BZ# DO NOT PUT ANYTHING AFTER THIS LINE, IT WILL GO AWAY. BSHAR_EOF Bfi Bexit 0 B# End of shell archive SHAR_EOF chmod 644 '432.shar' fi if test -f '432.patch' then echo shar: "will not over-write existing file '432.patch'" else sed 's/^B//' << \SHAR_EOF > '432.patch' B*** /etc/rc.local.old Sat Nov 16 16:23:44 1996 B--- /etc/rc.local Wed May 17 21:00:28 2000 B*************** B*** 1,10 **** B #! /bin/sh - B # site-specific startup actions, daemons B B! strings /vmunix | grep UNIX >/tmp/t1 B tail +2 /etc/motd >>/tmp/t1 B mv /tmp/t1 /etc/motd B! chmod 666 /etc/motd B B echo -n starting local daemons: >/dev/console 2>&1 B #if [ $INET = YES -a -f /usr/sbin/timed ]; then B--- 1,10 ---- B #! /bin/sh - B # site-specific startup actions, daemons B B! sysctl -n kern.version | head -1 > /tmp/t1 B tail +2 /etc/motd >>/tmp/t1 B mv /tmp/t1 /etc/motd B! chmod 644 /etc/motd B B echo -n starting local daemons: >/dev/console 2>&1 B #if [ $INET = YES -a -f /usr/sbin/timed ]; then B*** /usr/src/sys/sys/kern_sysctl.c.old Wed Aug 11 19:40:36 1999 B--- /usr/src/sys/sys/kern_sysctl.c Wed May 17 20:01:48 2000 B*************** B*** 33,39 **** B * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF B * SUCH DAMAGE. B * B! * @(#)kern_sysctl.c 8.4.11 (2.11BSD) 1999/8/11 B */ B B /* B--- 33,39 ---- B * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF B * SUCH DAMAGE. B * B! * @(#)kern_sysctl.c 8.4.12 (2.11BSD) 2000/5/17 B */ B B /* B*************** B*** 195,204 **** B B switch (name[0]) { B case KERN_OSTYPE: B case KERN_OSRELEASE: B! /* code is cheaper than D space */ B! bsd[0]='2';bsd[1]='.';bsd[2]='1';bsd[3]='1';bsd[4]='B'; B! bsd[5]='S';bsd[6]='D';bsd[7]='\0'; B return (sysctl_rdstring(oldp, oldlenp, newp, bsd)); B case KERN_ACCTTHRESH: B level = Acctthresh; B--- 195,204 ---- B B switch (name[0]) { B case KERN_OSTYPE: B+ bsd[0]='B';bsd[1]='S';bsd[2]='D';bsd[3]='\0'; B+ return (sysctl_rdstring(oldp, oldlenp, newp, bsd)); B case KERN_OSRELEASE: B! bsd[0]='2';bsd[1]='.';bsd[2]='1';bsd[3]='1';bsd[4]='\0'; B return (sysctl_rdstring(oldp, oldlenp, newp, bsd)); B case KERN_ACCTTHRESH: B level = Acctthresh; B*** /usr/src/sys/sys/kern_prot2.c.old Sun Feb 20 18:13:08 2000 B--- /usr/src/sys/sys/kern_prot2.c Tue Aug 1 20:44:47 2000 B*************** B*** 35,41 **** B * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF B * SUCH DAMAGE. B * B! * @(#)kern_prot2.c 8.9.2 (2.11BSD) 2000/2/20 B */ B B #include "param.h" B--- 35,41 ---- B * OUT OF THE USE OF THIS SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF B * SUCH DAMAGE. B * B! * @(#)kern_prot2.c 8.9.3 (2.11BSD) 2000/8/1 B */ B B #include "param.h" B*************** B*** 49,72 **** B B int B setuid() B! { B struct a { B uid_t uid; B } *uap = (struct a *)u.u_ap; B B- return(_setuid(uap->uid)); B- } B- B- /* B- * This is a helper function used by setuid() above and the 4.3BSD B- * compatibility code. When the latter goes away this can be joined B- * back into the above code and save a function call. B- */ B- int B- _setuid(uid) B- register uid_t uid; B- { B- B if (uid != u.u_ruid && !suser()) B return(u.u_error); B /* B--- 49,60 ---- B B int B setuid() B! { B struct a { B uid_t uid; B } *uap = (struct a *)u.u_ap; B+ register uid_t uid = uap->uid; B B if (uid != u.u_ruid && !suser()) B return(u.u_error); B /* B*************** B*** 78,84 **** B QUOTAMAP(); B if (u.u_quota->q_uid != uid) { B qclean(); B! qstart(getquota((uid_t)uid, 0, 0)); B } B QUOTAUNMAP(); B #endif B--- 66,72 ---- B QUOTAMAP(); B if (u.u_quota->q_uid != uid) { B qclean(); B! qstart(getquota(uid, 0, 0)); B } B QUOTAUNMAP(); B #endif B*************** B*** 88,94 **** B u.u_ruid = uid; B u.u_svuid = uid; B u.u_acflag |= ASUGID; B! return (u.u_error = 0); B } B B int B--- 76,82 ---- B u.u_ruid = uid; B u.u_svuid = uid; B u.u_acflag |= ASUGID; B! return(u.u_error = 0); B } B B int B*************** B*** 97,119 **** B struct a { B uid_t euid; B } *uap = (struct a *)u.u_ap; B B! return(_seteuid(uap->euid)); B! } B! B! int B! _seteuid(euid) B! register uid_t euid; B! { B! B! if (euid != u.u_ruid && euid != u.u_svuid && !suser()) B! return (u.u_error); B /* B * Everything's okay, do it. B */ B u.u_uid = euid; B u.u_acflag |= ASUGID; B! return (u.u_error = 0); B } B B int B--- 85,100 ---- B struct a { B uid_t euid; B } *uap = (struct a *)u.u_ap; B+ register uid_t euid = uap->euid; B B! if (euid != u.u_ruid && euid != u.u_svuid && !suser()) B! return(u.u_error); B /* B * Everything's okay, do it. B */ B u.u_uid = euid; B u.u_acflag |= ASUGID; B! return(u.u_error = 0); B } B B int B*************** B*** 122,143 **** B struct a { B gid_t gid; B } *uap = (struct a *)u.u_ap; B! B! return(_setgid(uap->gid)); B! } B B- int B- _setgid(gid) B- register gid_t gid; B- { B- B if (gid != u.u_rgid && !suser()) B! return (u.u_error); /* XXX */ B u.u_groups[0] = gid; /* effective gid is u_groups[0] */ B u.u_rgid = gid; B u.u_svgid = gid; B u.u_acflag |= ASUGID; B! return (u.u_error = 0); B } B B int B--- 103,117 ---- B struct a { B gid_t gid; B } *uap = (struct a *)u.u_ap; B! register gid_t gid = uap->gid; B B if (gid != u.u_rgid && !suser()) B! return(u.u_error); /* XXX */ B u.u_groups[0] = gid; /* effective gid is u_groups[0] */ B u.u_rgid = gid; B u.u_svgid = gid; B u.u_acflag |= ASUGID; B! return(u.u_error = 0); B } B B int B*************** B*** 146,163 **** B struct a { B gid_t egid; B } *uap = (struct a *)u.u_ap; B B- return(_setegid(uap->egid)); B- } B- B- int B- _setegid(egid) B- register gid_t egid; B- { B- B if (egid != u.u_rgid && egid != u.u_svgid && !suser()) B! return (u.u_error); B u.u_groups[0] = egid; B u.u_acflag |= ASUGID; B! return (u.u_error = 0); B } B--- 120,130 ---- B struct a { B gid_t egid; B } *uap = (struct a *)u.u_ap; B+ register gid_t egid = uap->egid; B B if (egid != u.u_rgid && egid != u.u_svgid && !suser()) B! return(u.u_error); B u.u_groups[0] = egid; B u.u_acflag |= ASUGID; B! return(u.u_error = 0); B } B*** /usr/src/sys/sys/subr_prf.c.old Sat Dec 5 17:34:36 1998 B--- /usr/src/sys/sys/subr_prf.c Tue Aug 1 20:46:48 2000 B*************** B*** 3,9 **** B * All rights reserved. The Berkeley software License Agreement B * specifies the terms and conditions for redistribution. B * B! * @(#)subr_prf.c 1.2 (2.11BSD) 1998/12/5 B */ B B #include "param.h" B--- 3,9 ---- B * All rights reserved. The Berkeley software License Agreement B * specifies the terms and conditions for redistribution. B * B! * @(#)subr_prf.c 1.3 (2.11BSD) 2000/8/1 B */ B B #include "param.h" B*************** B*** 300,306 **** B * about failing disk tranfers. B */ B harderr(bp, cp) B! struct buf *bp; B char *cp; B { B printf("%s%d%c: hard error sn%D ", cp, B--- 300,306 ---- B * about failing disk tranfers. B */ B harderr(bp, cp) B! register struct buf *bp; B char *cp; B { B printf("%s%d%c: hard error sn%D ", cp, B*** /usr/src/sys/h/param.h.old Wed Sep 15 19:38:45 1999 B--- /usr/src/sys/h/param.h Wed May 17 20:10:44 2000 B*************** B*** 3,12 **** B * All rights reserved. The Berkeley software License Agreement B * specifies the terms and conditions for redistribution. B * B! * @(#)param.h 1.6 (2.11BSD) 1999/9/5 B */ B B! #define BSD 211 /* 2.11 * 10, as cpp doesn't do floats */ B B #include <sys/localopts.h> B #include <sys/stddef.h> /* for 'offsetof' */ B--- 3,12 ---- B * All rights reserved. The Berkeley software License Agreement B * specifies the terms and conditions for redistribution. B * B! * @(#)param.h 1.7 (2.11BSD) 2000/5/17 B */ B B! #define BSD 200005 /* System version (year and month) */ B B #include <sys/localopts.h> B #include <sys/stddef.h> /* for 'offsetof' */ B*** /usr/src/sys/mdec/rauboot.s.old Wed May 31 19:54:49 1995 B--- /usr/src/sys/mdec/rauboot.s Wed May 17 19:54:13 2000 B*************** B*** 298,304 **** B clr (r0) / Tell controller we go it B rts pc B B! icons: RAERR B ra+RARING B 0 B RAGO B--- 298,309 ---- B clr (r0) / Tell controller we go it B rts pc B B! / Some adaptors (TD Systems Viking for example) require the vector field B! / to be initialized even though interrupts are not enabled. Use the primary B! / vector of 0154. The standalone MSCP driver does the same thing and later on B! / the kernel programs the adaptor with an assigned vector B! B! icons: RAERR + 033 / 033 = 0154 >> 2 B ra+RARING B 0 B RAGO B*** /usr/src/sys/netinet/raw_ip.c.old Fri Jul 7 13:30:17 1989 B--- /usr/src/sys/netinet/raw_ip.c Wed May 17 20:15:14 2000 B*************** B*** 9,15 **** B * software without specific prior written permission. This software B * is provided ``as is'' without express or implied warranty. B * B! * @(#)raw_ip.c 7.3 (Berkeley) 12/7/87 B */ B B #include "param.h" B--- 9,15 ---- B * software without specific prior written permission. This software B * is provided ``as is'' without express or implied warranty. B * B! * @(#)raw_ip.c 7.3.1 (2.11BSD) 2000/5/17 B */ B B #include "param.h" B*************** B*** 61,71 **** B int error; B struct rawcb *rp = sotorawcb(so); B struct sockaddr_in *sin; B- #if BSD>=43 B short proto = rp->rcb_proto.sp_protocol; B! #else B! short proto = so->so_proto->pr_protocol; B! #endif B /* B * if the protocol is IPPROTO_RAW, the user handed us a B * complete IP packet. Otherwise, allocate an mbuf for a B--- 61,68 ---- B int error; B struct rawcb *rp = sotorawcb(so); B struct sockaddr_in *sin; B short proto = rp->rcb_proto.sp_protocol; B! B /* B * if the protocol is IPPROTO_RAW, the user handed us a B * complete IP packet. Otherwise, allocate an mbuf for a B*************** B*** 113,125 **** B B ip->ip_dst = ((struct sockaddr_in *)&rp->rcb_faddr)->sin_addr; B B- #if BSD>=43 B return (ip_output(m, rp->rcb_options, &rp->rcb_route, B (so->so_options & SO_DONTROUTE) | IP_ALLOWBROADCAST)); B- #else B- return (ip_output(m, (struct mbuf *)0, &rp->rcb_route, B- (so->so_options & SO_DONTROUTE) | IP_ALLOWBROADCAST)); B- #endif B bad: B m_freem(m); B return (error); B--- 110,117 ---- B*** /usr/src/sys/netinet/tcp_input.c.old Sat May 7 14:43:47 1988 B--- /usr/src/sys/netinet/tcp_input.c Wed May 17 20:17:27 2000 B*************** B*** 9,15 **** B * software without specific prior written permission. This software B * is provided ``as is'' without express or implied warranty. B * B! * @(#)tcp_input.c 7.15.1.2 (Berkeley) 3/16/88 B */ B B #include "param.h" B--- 9,15 ---- B * software without specific prior written permission. This software B * is provided ``as is'' without express or implied warranty. B * B! * @(#)tcp_input.c 7.15.1.3 (2.11BSD) 2000/5/17 B */ B B #include "param.h" B*************** B*** 321,329 **** B inp = (struct inpcb *)so->so_pcb; B inp->inp_laddr = ti->ti_dst; B inp->inp_lport = ti->ti_dport; B- #if BSD>=43 B inp->inp_options = ip_srcroute(); B- #endif B tp = intotcpcb(inp); B tp->t_state = TCPS_LISTEN; B } B--- 321,327 ---- B*************** B*** 491,507 **** B ti->ti_seq++; B if (ti->ti_len > tp->rcv_wnd) { B todrop = ti->ti_len - tp->rcv_wnd; B- #if BSD>=43 B m_adj(m, -todrop); B- #else B- /* XXX work around 4.2 m_adj bug */ B- if (m->m_len) { B- m_adj(m, -todrop); B- } else { B- /* skip tcp/ip header in first mbuf */ B- m_adj(m->m_next, -todrop); B- } B- #endif B ti->ti_len = tp->rcv_wnd; B tiflags &= ~TH_FIN; B tcpstat.tcps_rcvpackafterwin++; B--- 489,495 ---- B*************** B*** 615,631 **** B goto dropafterack; B } else B tcpstat.tcps_rcvbyteafterwin += todrop; B- #if BSD>=43 B m_adj(m, -todrop); B- #else B- /* XXX work around m_adj bug */ B- if (m->m_len) { B- m_adj(m, -todrop); B- } else { B- /* skip tcp/ip header in first mbuf */ B- m_adj(m->m_next, -todrop); B- } B- #endif B ti->ti_len -= todrop; B tiflags &= ~(TH_PUSH|TH_FIN); B } B--- 603,609 ---- B*************** B*** 1290,1323 **** B tp->snd_cwnd = mss; B return (mss); B } B- B- #if BSD<43 B- /* XXX this belongs in netinet/in.c */ B- in_localaddr(in) B- struct in_addr in; B- { B- register u_long i = ntohl(in.s_addr); B- register struct ifnet *ifp; B- register struct sockaddr_in *sin; B- register u_long mask; B- B- if (IN_CLASSA(i)) B- mask = IN_CLASSA_NET; B- else if (IN_CLASSB(i)) B- mask = IN_CLASSB_NET; B- else if (IN_CLASSC(i)) B- mask = IN_CLASSC_NET; B- else B- return (0); B- B- i &= mask; B- for (ifp = ifnet; ifp; ifp = ifp->if_next) { B- if (ifp->if_addr.sa_family != AF_INET) B- continue; B- sin = (struct sockaddr_in *)&ifp->if_addr; B- if ((sin->sin_addr.s_addr & mask) == i) B- return (1); B- } B- return (0); B- } B- #endif B--- 1268,1270 ---- B*** /usr/src/sys/netinet/tcp_output.c.old Tue Oct 10 22:39:54 1995 B--- /usr/src/sys/netinet/tcp_output.c Wed May 17 20:18:48 2000 B*************** B*** 9,15 **** B * software without specific prior written permission. This software B * is provided ``as is'' without express or implied warranty. B * B! * @(#)tcp_output.c 7.13.1.4 (Berkeley) 1995/10/10 B */ B B #include "param.h" B--- 9,15 ---- B * software without specific prior written permission. This software B * is provided ``as is'' without express or implied warranty. B * B! * @(#)tcp_output.c 7.13.1.5 (2.11BSD) 2000/5/17 B */ B B #include "param.h" B*************** B*** 390,402 **** B */ B ((struct ip *)ti)->ip_len = sizeof (struct tcpiphdr) + optlen + len; B ((struct ip *)ti)->ip_ttl = ip_defttl; /* XXX */ B- #if BSD>=43 B error = ip_output(m, tp->t_inpcb->inp_options, &tp->t_inpcb->inp_route, B so->so_options & SO_DONTROUTE); B- #else B- error = ip_output(m, (struct mbuf *)0, &tp->t_inpcb->inp_route, B- so->so_options & SO_DONTROUTE); B- #endif B if (error) { B if (error == ENOBUFS) { B tcp_quench(tp->t_inpcb); B--- 390,397 ---- B*** /usr/src/sys/netinet/tcp_timer.c.old Thu Apr 28 16:25:02 1988 B--- /usr/src/sys/netinet/tcp_timer.c Wed May 17 20:19:44 2000 B*************** B*** 9,15 **** B * software without specific prior written permission. This software B * is provided ``as is'' without express or implied warranty. B * B! * @(#)tcp_timer.c 7.11.1.2 (Berkeley) 3/16/88 B */ B B #include "param.h" B--- 9,15 ---- B * software without specific prior written permission. This software B * is provided ``as is'' without express or implied warranty. B * B! * @(#)tcp_timer.c 7.11.1.3 (2.11BSD) 2000/5/17 B */ B B #include "param.h" B*************** B*** 178,186 **** B * retransmit times until then. B */ B if (tp->t_rxtshift > TCP_MAXRXTSHIFT / 4) { B- #if BSD>=43 B in_losing(tp->t_inpcb); B- #endif B tp->t_rttvar += (tp->t_srtt >> 2); B tp->t_srtt = 0; B } B--- 178,184 ---- B*** /usr/src/sys/netinet/tcp_usrreq.c.old Thu Apr 28 16:26:57 1988 B--- /usr/src/sys/netinet/tcp_usrreq.c Wed May 17 20:20:49 2000 B*************** B*** 9,15 **** B * software without specific prior written permission. This software B * is provided ``as is'' without express or implied warranty. B * B! * @(#)tcp_usrreq.c 7.7.1.2 (Berkeley) 3/16/88 B */ B B #include "param.h" B--- 9,15 ---- B * software without specific prior written permission. This software B * is provided ``as is'' without express or implied warranty. B * B! * @(#)tcp_usrreq.c 7.7.1.3 (2.11BSD) 2000/5/17 B */ B B #include "param.h" B*************** B*** 61,74 **** B int error = 0; B int ostate; B B- #if BSD>=43 B if (req == PRU_CONTROL) B return (in_control(so, (int)m, (caddr_t)nam, B (struct ifnet *)rights)); B- #else B- if (req == PRU_CONTROL) B- return(EOPNOTSUPP); B- #endif B if (rights && rights->m_len) B return (EINVAL); B B--- 61,69 ---- B*************** B*** 317,323 **** B return (error); B } B B- #if BSD>=43 B tcp_ctloutput(op, so, level, optname, mp) B int op; B struct socket *so; B--- 312,317 ---- B*************** B*** 375,381 **** B } B return (error); B } B- #endif B B int tcp_sendspace = 1024*4; B int tcp_recvspace = 1024*4; B--- 369,374 ---- B*** /usr/src/etc/rc.local.old Fri Jan 10 20:54:34 1997 B--- /usr/src/etc/rc.local Wed May 17 21:01:41 2000 B*************** B*** 1,10 **** B #! /bin/sh - B # site-specific startup actions, daemons B B! strings /vmunix | grep UNIX >/tmp/t1 B tail +2 /etc/motd >>/tmp/t1 B mv /tmp/t1 /etc/motd B! chmod 666 /etc/motd B B echo -n starting local daemons: >/dev/console 2>&1 B #if [ $INET = YES -a -f /usr/sbin/timed ]; then B--- 1,10 ---- B #! /bin/sh - B # site-specific startup actions, daemons B B! sysctl -n kern.version | head -1 > /tmp/t1 B tail +2 /etc/motd >>/tmp/t1 B mv /tmp/t1 /etc/motd B! chmod 644 /etc/motd B B echo -n starting local daemons: >/dev/console 2>&1 B #if [ $INET = YES -a -f /usr/sbin/timed ]; then B*** /usr/src/lib/libc/net/named/gethnamadr.c.old Sun Jul 10 18:04:23 1994 B--- /usr/src/lib/libc/net/named/gethnamadr.c Wed May 17 20:22:57 2000 B*************** B*** 11,18 **** B */ B B #if defined(LIBC_SCCS) && !defined(lint) B! static char sccsid[] = "@(#)gethostnamadr.c 6.31.2 (2.11BSD GTE) 6/27/94"; B! #endif /* LIBC_SCCS and not lint */ B B #include <sys/param.h> B #include <sys/socket.h> B--- 11,18 ---- B */ B B #if defined(LIBC_SCCS) && !defined(lint) B! static char sccsid[] = "@(#)gethostnamadr.c 6.31.3 (2.11BSD) 2000/5/17"; B! #endif B B #include <sys/param.h> B #include <sys/socket.h> B*************** B*** 112,120 **** B ap = host_aliases; B host.h_aliases = host_aliases; B hap = h_addr_ptrs; B- #if BSD >= 43 || defined(h_addr) /* new-style hostent structure */ B host.h_addr_list = h_addr_ptrs; B- #endif B haveanswer = 0; B while (--ancount >= 0 && cp < eom) { B if ((n = dn_expand((char *)answer->buf, eom, cp, bp, buflen)) < 0) B--- 112,118 ---- B*************** B*** 190,200 **** B } B if (haveanswer) { B *ap = NULL; B- #if BSD >= 43 || defined(h_addr) /* new-style hostent structure */ B *hap = NULL; B- #else B- host.h_addr = h_addr_ptrs[0]; B- #endif B return (&host); B } else { B h_errno = TRY_AGAIN; B--- 188,194 ---- B*************** B*** 320,328 **** B goto again; B *cp++ = '\0'; B /* THIS STUFF IS INTERNET SPECIFIC */ B- #if BSD >= 43 || defined(h_addr) /* new-style hostent structure */ B host.h_addr_list = host_addrs; B- #endif B host.h_addr = hostaddr; B *((u_long *)host.h_addr) = inet_addr(p); B host.h_length = sizeof (u_long); B--- 314,320 ---- B*** /usr/src/lib/libc/net/res_send.c.old Sun Jun 26 17:22:50 1994 B--- /usr/src/lib/libc/net/res_send.c Wed May 17 20:27:18 2000 B*************** B*** 11,18 **** B */ B B #if defined(LIBC_SCCS) && !defined(lint) B! static char sccsid[] = "@(#)res_send.c 6.19.1 (Berkeley) 6/27/94"; B! #endif /* LIBC_SCCS and not lint */ B B /* B * Send query to name server and wait for reply. B--- 11,18 ---- B */ B B #if defined(LIBC_SCCS) && !defined(lint) B! static char sccsid[] = "@(#)res_send.c 6.19.2 (2.11BSD) 2000/5/17"; B! #endif B B /* B * Send query to name server and wait for reply. B*************** B*** 28,48 **** B #include <arpa/nameser.h> B #include <resolv.h> B B- extern int errno; B- B static int s = -1; /* socket used for communications */ B static struct sockaddr no_addr; B- B B- #ifndef FD_SET B- #define NFDBITS 32 B- #define FD_SETSIZE 32 B- #define FD_SET(n, p) ((p)->fds_bits[(n)/NFDBITS] |= (1 << ((n) % NFDBITS))) B- #define FD_CLR(n, p) ((p)->fds_bits[(n)/NFDBITS] &= ~(1 << ((n) % NFDBITS))) B- #define FD_ISSET(n, p) ((p)->fds_bits[(n)/NFDBITS] & (1 << ((n) % NFDBITS))) B- #define FD_ZERO(p) bzero((char *)(p), sizeof(*(p))) B- #endif B- B #define KEEPOPEN (RES_USEVC|RES_STAYOPEN) B B res_send(buf, buflen, answer, anslen) B--- 28,36 ---- B*************** B*** 199,205 **** B */ B if (s < 0) B s = socket(AF_INET, SOCK_DGRAM, 0); B- #if BSD >= 43 B if (_res.nscount == 1 || retry == _res.retry) { B /* B * Don't use connect if we might B--- 187,192 ---- B*************** B*** 224,233 **** B #endif DEBUG B continue; B } B! } else B! #endif BSD B! if (sendto(s, buf, buflen, 0, &_res.nsaddr_list[ns], B! sizeof(struct sockaddr)) != buflen) { B #ifdef DEBUG B if (_res.options & RES_DEBUG) B perror("sendto"); B--- 211,218 ---- B #endif DEBUG B continue; B } B! } else if (sendto(s,buf,buflen,0,&_res.nsaddr_list[ns], B! sizeof(struct sockaddr)) != buflen) { B #ifdef DEBUG B if (_res.options & RES_DEBUG) B perror("sendto"); B*** /usr/src/ucb/netstat/inet.c.old Sun Aug 28 10:53:19 1994 B--- /usr/src/ucb/netstat/inet.c Wed May 17 20:29:47 2000 B*************** B*** 11,17 **** B */ B B #if defined(DOSCCS) && !defined(lint) B! static char sccsid[] = "@(#)inet.c 5.9.3 (2.11BSD GTE) 8/28/94"; B #endif B B #include <strings.h> B--- 11,17 ---- B */ B B #if defined(DOSCCS) && !defined(lint) B! static char sccsid[] = "@(#)inet.c 5.9.4 (2.11BSD) 2000/5/17"; B #endif B B #include <strings.h> B*************** B*** 243,252 **** B return; B klseek(kmem, off, 0); B read(kmem, (char *)&ipstat, sizeof (ipstat)); B- #if BSD>=43 B printf("%s:\n\t%lu total packets received\n", name, B ipstat.ips_total); B- #endif B printf("\t%lu bad header checksum%s\n", B ipstat.ips_badsum, plural(ipstat.ips_badsum)); B printf("\t%lu with size smaller than minimum\n", ipstat.ips_toosmall); B--- 243,250 ---- B*************** B*** 253,259 **** B printf("\t%lu with data size < data length\n", ipstat.ips_tooshort); B printf("\t%lu with header length < data size\n", ipstat.ips_badhlen); B printf("\t%lu with data length < header length\n", ipstat.ips_badlen); B- #if BSD>=43 B printf("\t%lu fragment%s received\n", B ipstat.ips_fragments, plural(ipstat.ips_fragments)); B printf("\t%lu fragment%s dropped (dup or out of space)\n", B--- 251,256 ---- B*************** B*** 266,272 **** B ipstat.ips_cantforward, plural(ipstat.ips_cantforward)); B printf("\t%lu redirect%s sent\n", B ipstat.ips_redirectsent, plural(ipstat.ips_redirectsent)); B- #endif B } B B static char *icmpnames[] = { B--- 263,268 ---- B*** /usr/src/ucb/rlogin/rlogin.c.old Wed May 7 19:45:04 1997 B--- /usr/src/ucb/rlogin/rlogin.c Wed May 17 20:44:43 2000 B*************** B*** 9,15 **** B "@(#) Copyright (c) 1983 Regents of the University of California.\n\ B All rights reserved.\n"; B B! static char sccsid[] = "@(#)rlogin.c 5.10.1 (2.11BSD) 1997/3/28"; B #endif B B /* B--- 9,15 ---- B "@(#) Copyright (c) 1983 Regents of the University of California.\n\ B All rights reserved.\n"; B B! static char sccsid[] = "@(#)rlogin.c 5.10.2 (2.11BSD) 2000/5/17"; B #endif B B /* B*************** B*** 28,33 **** B--- 28,35 ---- B #include <errno.h> B #include <pwd.h> B #include <signal.h> B+ #include <string.h> B+ #include <stdlib.h> B #include <setjmp.h> B #include <netdb.h> B B*************** B*** 35,42 **** B # define TIOCPKT_WINDOW 0x80 B # endif TIOCPKT_WINDOW B B- char *index(), *rindex(), *malloc(), *getenv(); B- struct passwd *getpwuid(); B char *name; B int rem; B char cmdchar = '~'; B--- 37,42 ---- B*************** B*** 46,66 **** B { "0", "50", "75", "110", "134", "150", "200", "300", B "600", "1200", "1800", "2400", "4800", "9600", "19200", "38400" }; B char term[256] = "network"; B- extern int errno; B int lostpeer(); B int dosigwinch = 0; B- #ifndef sigmask B- #define sigmask(m) (1L << ((m)-1)) B- #endif B- #ifdef sun B- struct ttysize winsize; B- struct winsize { B- unsigned short ws_row, ws_col; B- unsigned short ws_xpixel, ws_ypixel; B- }; B- #else sun B struct winsize winsize; B- #endif sun B int sigwinch(), oob(); B B main(argc, argv) B--- 46,54 ---- B*************** B*** 132,142 **** B strcat(term, "/"); B strcat(term, speeds[ttyb.sg_ospeed]); B } B- #ifdef sun B- (void) ioctl(0, TIOCGSIZE, &winsize); B- #else sun B (void) ioctl(0, TIOCGWINSZ, &winsize); B- #endif sun B signal(SIGPIPE, lostpeer); B signal(SIGURG, oob); B oldmask = sigblock(sigmask(SIGURG)); B--- 120,126 ---- B*************** B*** 177,183 **** B doit(oldmask) B long oldmask; B { B- int exit(); B struct sgttyb sb; B B ioctl(0, TIOCGETP, (char *)&sb); B--- 161,166 ---- B*************** B*** 349,369 **** B sigwinch(); /* check for size changes */ B } B B- #ifdef sun B sigwinch() B { B- struct ttysize ws; B- B- if (dosigwinch && ioctl(0, TIOCGSIZE, &ws) == 0 && B- bcmp(&ws, &winsize, sizeof (ws))) { B- winsize = ws; B- sendwindow(); B- } B- } B- B- #else sun B- sigwinch() B- { B struct winsize ws; B B if (dosigwinch && ioctl(0, TIOCGWINSZ, &ws) == 0 && B--- 332,339 ---- B*************** B*** 372,378 **** B sendwindow(); B } B } B- #endif B B /* B * Send the window size to the server via the magic escape B--- 342,347 ---- B*************** B*** 386,402 **** B obuf[1] = 0377; B obuf[2] = 's'; B obuf[3] = 's'; B- #ifdef sun B- wp->ws_row = htons(winsize.ts_lines); B- wp->ws_col = htons(winsize.ts_cols); B- wp->ws_xpixel = 0; B- wp->ws_ypixel = 0; B- #else sun B wp->ws_row = htons(winsize.ws_row); B wp->ws_col = htons(winsize.ws_col); B wp->ws_xpixel = htons(winsize.ws_xpixel); B wp->ws_ypixel = htons(winsize.ws_ypixel); B- #endif sun B (void) write(rem, obuf, sizeof(obuf)); B } B B--- 355,364 ---- B*************** B*** 506,516 **** B */ B reader() B { B- #if !defined(BSD) || BSD < 43 B- int pid = -getpid(); B- #else B int pid = getpid(); B- #endif B int n, remaining; B char *bufp = rcvbuf; B B--- 468,474 ---- B*** /usr/src/ucb/Makefile.old Fri Jun 27 19:50:46 1997 B--- /usr/src/ucb/Makefile Wed May 17 20:32:16 2000 B*************** B*** 3,9 **** B # All rights reserved. The Berkeley software License Agreement B # specifies the terms and conditions for redistribution. B # B! # @(#)Makefile 5.17.4 (2.11BSD GTE) 1997/6/27 B # B DESTDIR= B CFLAGS= -O B--- 3,9 ---- B # All rights reserved. The Berkeley software License Agreement B # specifies the terms and conditions for redistribution. B # B! # @(#)Makefile 5.17.5 (2.11BSD) 2000/5/17 B # B DESTDIR= B CFLAGS= -O B*************** B*** 12,18 **** B # Programs that live in subdirectories, and have makefiles of their own. B # B SUBDIR= Mail compress dbx error ex finger fp ftp indent lock man \ B! more msgs netstat pascal rdist sendbug talk tftp \ B tn3270 tset vgrind vlp window B B # Shell scripts that need only be installed and are never removed. B--- 12,18 ---- B # Programs that live in subdirectories, and have makefiles of their own. B # B SUBDIR= Mail compress dbx error ex finger fp ftp indent lock man \ B! more msgs netstat pascal rdist rlogin sendbug talk tftp \ B tn3270 tset vgrind vlp window B B # Shell scripts that need only be installed and are never removed. B*************** B*** 34,40 **** B B # Programs that must run setuid to root B # B! SETUID= quota rlogin rsh B B # Programs that must run set-group-id kmem. B # B--- 34,40 ---- B B # Programs that must run setuid to root B # B! SETUID= quota rsh B B # Programs that must run set-group-id kmem. B # B*** /usr/src/share/me/tmac.e.old Mon Oct 21 20:50:21 1996 B--- /usr/src/share/me/tmac.e Fri Oct 13 19:56:55 2000 B*************** B*** 1045,1051 **** B .if \n(dw=5 .ds dw Thursday B .if \n(dw=6 .ds dw Friday B .if \n(dw=7 .ds dw Saturday B! .ds td \*(mo \n(dy, 19\n(yr B .\" *** PARAMETRIC INITIALIZATIONS *** B .if (1m<0.1i)&(\nx!=0) \ B . vs 9p \" for 12-pitch DTC terminals B--- 1045,1052 ---- B .if \n(dw=5 .ds dw Thursday B .if \n(dw=6 .ds dw Friday B .if \n(dw=7 .ds dw Saturday B! .nr *y \n(yr+1900 B! .ds td \*(mo \n(dy, \n(*y B .\" *** PARAMETRIC INITIALIZATIONS *** B .if (1m<0.1i)&(\nx!=0) \ B . vs 9p \" for 12-pitch DTC terminals B*** /usr/src/share/tmac/tmac.s.old Mon Oct 21 20:30:44 1996 B--- /usr/src/share/tmac/tmac.s Mon Oct 9 20:37:30 2000 B*************** B*** 934,940 **** B .if \n(mo-9 .ds MO October B .if \n(mo-10 .ds MO November B .if \n(mo-11 .ds MO December B! .ds DY \*(MO \n(dy, 19\n(yr B .nr * 0 1 B .IZ B .em EM B--- 934,942 ---- B .if \n(mo-9 .ds MO October B .if \n(mo-10 .ds MO November B .if \n(mo-11 .ds MO December B! .nr *y \n(yr+1900 B! .ds DY \*(MO \n(dy, \n(*y B! .ie B .nr * 0 1 B .IZ B .em EM B*** /usr/src/share/tmac/tmac.an.new.old Thu Oct 31 22:18:00 1996 B--- /usr/src/share/tmac/tmac.an.new Wed Oct 11 23:17:45 2000 B*************** B*** 20,30 **** B .if "\nm"10" .ds ]m November B .if "\nm"11" .ds ]m December B ' # set the date B .if n \{.nr m \nm+1 B! . ie \nd .ds ]W Modified \nm/\nd/\ny B! . el .ds ]W Printed \n(mo/\n(dy/\n(yr\} B! .if t \{.ie \nd .ds ]W \*(]m \nd, 19\ny B! . el .ds ]W \*(]m \n(dy, 19\n(yr\} B .if t .tr *\(** B .ie n \{\ B . ds lq \&"\" B--- 20,35 ---- B .if "\nm"10" .ds ]m November B .if "\nm"11" .ds ]m December B ' # set the date B+ .nr )y \n(yr-100 B+ .ie \n(yr<100 .ds ]Y \n(yr B+ .el .ds ]Y 0\n()y B+ ' B+ .nr )Y \n(yr+1900 B .if n \{.nr m \nm+1 B! . ie \nd .ds ]W Modified \nm/\nd/\*(]Y B! . el .ds ]W Printed \n(mo/\n(dy/\*(]Y\} B! .if t \{.ie \nd .ds ]W \*(]m \nd, \n()Y B! . el .ds ]W \*(]m \n(dy, \n()Y\} B .if t .tr *\(** B .ie n \{\ B . ds lq \&"\" B*** /VERSION.old Fri Apr 21 20:38:04 2000 B--- /VERSION Wed May 17 21:02:26 2000 B*************** B*** 1,5 **** B! Current Patch Level: 431 B! Date: April 21, 2000 B B 2.11 BSD B ============ B--- 1,5 ---- B! Current Patch Level: 432 B! Date: May 17, 2000 B B 2.11 BSD B ============ SHAR_EOF chmod 644 '432.patch' fi exit 0 # End of shell archive

23 years, 6 months

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Silicon Valley TUHS People

by Matthew Whitehead

Does anybody on this list reside in Silicon Valley like myself and have access to surplus PDP-11 or early Vax hardware? I've gotten a good deal of the 'ancient unix' software going on the Supnik emulator (it's great!), but now I want to get an actual PDP-11/70 or 11/45 going (perhaps a Vax 11/780 or 11/750). Yeah, I know the actual power usage for such a beastie averages around 6000W, but I won't run it all the time. :-) Lists of hardware suplus places known to carry such stuff greatly appreciated, but it has to be close. I don't want to get clobbered with a huge shipping bill. - Matthew

23 years, 6 months

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[pups] Re: Searching for 8" DSDD drive

by Jason T. Miller

I should be able to read them, although I admit I am far from Delaware. Not far from a mailbox, though. I can do raw reads and RT-11 filesystems from both RX01 and RX02 on my PC, although I tend to simply do raw reads and use RT or RSX on the Supnik emulator, write a virtual tape, then parse the tape out with a C routine or Perl script (trivial), to extract files from PDP FSes. DS/DD shouldn't be an issue, although software interleaving can be a pain (RX50s have this problem. I've always wondered what the justification for not putting the correct sector numbers in the address area of the sector was!). Sincerely, Jason T. Miller Shaffstall Support and Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Shaffstall Corporation 317-842-2077 ext. 302 Conversion, Duplication, and Network Services jasomill(a)shaffstall.com

23 years, 6 months

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RE: [pups] Searching for 8" DSDD drive

by SHOPPA＠trailing-edge.com

>we are looking for someone with access to a working 8" DSDD floppy >disk drive, presumably running RT or RSX on the PDP system. This is >to retrieve some very interesting historic material regarding the >Internet. As some of you may know, the IMP's in the 1980s, or fuzzball >systems, were running PDPs. You need more than just the drive - you need a compatible controller. While most floppy systems were DEC-compatible in SSSD and SSDD modes (RX01 and RX02), the DEC RX03 (DSDD) was never released and as a result there are literally dozens of not-quite-compatible DSDD floppy systems. When the low-level format agrees, you'll discover that the interleaving doesn't! (And there are a lot more choices with regards to interleaving when you've got two sides...) If you can clue us in as to the make and model of the writing controller, it'd help a lot. >The actual floppies to be read are in Delaware, anyone close there >would be a big bonus. I'm sure I've got a couple dozen not-quite-compatible DSDD systems here in DC :-). Tim.

23 years, 6 months

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[pups] Searching for 8" DSDD drive

by Joerg Micheel

Hi PDP owners, we are looking for someone with access to a working 8" DSDD floppy disk drive, presumably running RT or RSX on the PDP system. This is to retrieve some very interesting historic material regarding the Internet. As some of you may know, the IMP's in the 1980s, or fuzzball systems, were running PDPs. The actual floppies to be read are in Delaware, anyone close there would be a big bonus. Thank you. Joerg -- Joerg B. Micheel Email: <joerg(a)cs.waikato.ac.nz> WAND and NLANR MOAT Email: <joerg(a)nlanr.net> The University of Waikato, CompScience Phone: +64 7 8384794 Private Bag 3105 Fax: +64 7 8585095 Hamilton, New Zealand Plan: PMA, TINE and the DAG's

23 years, 6 months

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[pups] Trouble with 2.11BSD and CQD-220

by Chuck Dickman

I have a QBus SCSI disk controller (Horray!) and it is working fine. Except... I cannot get it to boot directly from the SCSI drive. More detail.... The processor is an 11/73 and the SCSI controller is a CMD CQD-220 with a Fujitsu 220MB drive. The CQD-220 is set as the primary MSCP controller and an RQDX3 with an RX50 drive as the secondary MSCP controller. I have placed rauboot from 2.11BSD on the SCSI drive and on a floppy. I can boot fine from the floppy, but not from the SCSI drive. The floppy loads boot and then from there .: ra(0,0,0)unix boots unix from the SCSI drive. When booting from the SCSI drive, the boot sector is loaded into memory and then relocated. It hangs waiting for the MSCP controller to respond. I have not diagnosed it to the command that hangs. Is anybody else booting 2.11BSD directly from a drive attached to a CQD-220? -chuck

23 years, 6 months

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[pups] Re: PUPS digest, Vol 1 #5 - 3 msgs

by Jay Jaeger

Bill Gunshannon wrote: > What are the odds that a 15 year old tape is even readable today?? I know > when I found the original BSD tapes here even with their being stored in the > computer room, they were unreadable. You might be surprised. PUPS has Mini-Unix because I was able to read a 15 year old tape a few years back. I can still read a copy of the V6 distribution that was made in the late 1970's. Recently I read thru all the 9 track tapes I had, and only one of them had errors. Many were well over 10 years old. And Paul Pierce managed to put together a usable image of the IBM PR155 O/S for the IBM 1410 by reading 2 7 track tapes that were pushing 30. Jay Jaeger --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1(a)home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection

23 years, 6 months

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[pups] Scanning old Unix manuals in

by Warren Toomey

In article by martin lovick: > Hi, > > I've read the FAQ and it mentioned the earlier versions of the [Unix manuals] > being scanned and ocr'd..... Has any progress been made with this? > > regards > Martin Lovick Well, both Norman and I were going to do it. Because Dennis found the 3rd and 4th Edition manuals in electronic format, now we are only missing the 2nd and 5th Edition manuals. I made an abortive start before I left my job in July, and I haven't got back to it. So, no real progress at this stage. Warren

23 years, 6 months

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Re: [pups] The Software Tools Virtual Operating System

by Bill Gunshannon

On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, David C. Jenner wrote: > Bill, > > I can assure you that what you were pointed to at the Ken Yap's Links > is what you are seeking. It may not be the final version, but it is > essentially what I received on a tape 20 years ago. There's even some > later material circa 1983, which postdated what I had, in the "Toys" file. Hmmmm. I'm beginning to think as it neared the end and interest trailed off much of the work did not get rolled back in to the base distribution. My last experience was around 84-85 and it was a package from GA Tech that ranon the Prime 50 series minis. It was alot like using Eunice on a VAX/VMS system. A quick scan of the stuff from Ken Yap found no mention of a number of systems that were known to exist by that time. No PDP-11, no Prime, some mention of the VAX, no mention of Unix (don't ask me why, but the VOS was ported to Unix!!). I guess what I need to do is see what systems are supported in what I have and try to get a system up again to check out. > > I probably still have the tape, but, it's 20 years old, hasn't been > used for at least 15 years, who knows what condition it's in, and it's > not much different than the content on the Web. What are the odds that a 15 year old tape is even readable today?? I know when I found the original BSD tapes here even with their being stored in the computer room, they were unreadable. > > You must realize, I guess, that you aren't getting a complete operating > system when you speak of STVOS, but just a ratfor translator and sources > for lots of Unix-like utilities. And primitives to translate between the host OS and the VOS API. > You need to supply a Fortran compiler > and operating system on which to build this. And many were supported. I was hoping to find enough of them to have a good example of what problems were run into doing the ports. Can go a long way in helping with other porting efforts. And because the API is very Unix-like it offers some intersting possibilities for expansion. > The idea was to make a > highly-portable set of software development tools and utilities that > could be ported and used across many OSes, thus making what you develop > available across many OSes. There is no OS (i.e., resource management, > file system, etc.) included. True. But a common API with hooks into a number of very different OSes. > > What you refer to in your emails about VOS bears little resemblance > to the STVOS, because STVOS wasn't an OS. Probably depends on your definition of OS. It was an ambitious project at the time and an idea whose time may just now be coming into vogue. > Today's VOSes, like a Java > machine, are at least one step beyond the STVOS. Again, I am not sure I agree. To me the Java VM is just the UCSD P-machine warmed over. One of the reasons things like the P-Machine and VOSes didn't fly 20 years ago was performance. We were trying to wring every last bit (no pun intended!) of performance out of our hardware. We frequently still did a lot of our programming in assembler (I was doing things like Prime 50-series and Univac-1100 assembler and almost anything on a micro was either complete or heavily laced with assembler, LSI-11, Z80, M68K.) Today, for all intents and purposes we have cpu cycles to burn. Look at the popularity of hardware emulators. E11, Charon VAX, SIMH. And people talking about how these emulators outperform the real hardware and could easily be used as production systems. Maybe it's time to look into reviving some of these ideas, but hopefully, not with a return to the beginning and a total re- invention of the wheel. > > You might want to establish what the final date of release of STVOS > was to determine what the final version was. As I recall, it wasn't > too much later than 1981. (The Toys tape is 1983.) Somewhere I have > a pile of old newsletters that would have the answer, but they're > boxed away in storage. I won't be able to dig for them for another > month. I know the Prime version was still available until the mid 80's. but much of this may have been independant work as STUG may have already faded into the background. I guess the thing that bothers me the most is not wether or not this can be turned into something usable, but the fact that what was an impressive work for the time it was done has been allowed to all but disappear. Maybe I'm getting maudlin in my old age. :-) I appreciate everyone's help and as I said previously, it makes me appreciate even more the work of Warren and PUPS and Tim Shoppa as well. All the best. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>

23 years, 6 months

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Re: [pups] The Software Tools Virtual Operating System

by SHOPPA＠trailing-edge.com

>> ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/rsx11freewarev2/rsx81a/ > Thanks for the pointer. I was aware of the RSX version that was contained >in the DECUS library. But there really was quite a bit more to the whole >distribution than that. Can you educate us about what is missing? If you can clue me in as to a specific file name or a specific text string that might be in a missing file, I'll gladly search through the few tens of gigabytes of images I've got here. Tim.

23 years, 6 months

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RE: [TUHS] Disk Drivers

by Ian King

I can speak to the v6 stuff, and I think the same applies to the v7 stuff: the bootable image rkunix is intended to allow you to get a system booted from an RK05 (on which you've presumably installed this image), so that you can rebuild the system to suit your hardware. There is some special stuff in v6 for the PDP-40, so presumably the rkunix.40 image addresses that. The 'unix' image is the image one customarily boots to use the system; it's probably the image from the system on which the image was originally built all those years ago, and is intended to be replaced by your new image. Presumably, the drivers in that image might be identified if the c.c and l.c files are still present in /usr/sys. I don't know whether Bob Supnik actually built these images, or (as I suspect) included them from e.g. the PUPS site. Regarding the v7 stuff, I think you'll find considerable information in the v7 setup docs on the PUPS website, as to which corresponds to what drives (although it's somewhat self-explanatory). Hope that's helpful -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Matthew Whitehead [mailto:matthew.whitehead@apple.com] Sent: Thursday, November 01, 2001 12:59 PM To: TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org Subject: [TUHS] Disk Drivers I'm getting a tad frustrated with the otherwise excellent Supnik PDP-11 emulators. Can anyone tell me (or give me the adb commands to figure it out myself) what disk device drivers are present in the bootable disk images that come with the Supnik simulator? The versions I'm interested are: V6 image: - rkunix (rk) - rkunix.40 (rk, PDP-11/40 cpu?) - unix V7 image: - hphtunix (hp) - hptmunix (hp) - rkunix (rk) - rl2unix (obviously hacked to include rl driver) - rphtunix (rp) - rptmunix (rp) Matthew (mrw(a)apple.com) _______________________________________________ TUHS mailing list TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

23 years, 6 months

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[pups] [TUHS] Disk Drivers (fwd)

by Warren Toomey

[Forwarded to the PUPS list, as this is PDP-11 specific - Warren] Your best bets are: - Use nm on the kernel if it hasn't been stripped - Or go to /usr/sys/conf if you have the sources, and look at the config files for each kernel, e.g rptmunix came from rptmconf, which has: rp root rp 1 swap rp 2 swplo 0 nswap 2000 tm Cheers, Warren ----- Forwarded message from Matthew Whitehead ----- From: Matthew Whitehead <matthew.whitehead(a)apple.com> Subject: [TUHS] Disk Drivers Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 12:58:54 -0800 I'm getting a tad frustrated with the otherwise excellent Supnik PDP-11 emulators. Can anyone tell me (or give me the adb commands to figure it out myself) what disk device drivers are present in the bootable disk images that come with the Supnik simulator? The versions I'm interested are: V6 image: - rkunix (rk) - rkunix.40 (rk, PDP-11/40 cpu?) - unix V7 image: - hphtunix (hp) - hptmunix (hp) - rkunix (rk) - rl2unix (obviously hacked to include rl driver) - rphtunix (rp) - rptmunix (rp) Matthew (mrw(a)apple.com) ----- End of forwarded message from Matthew Whitehead -----

23 years, 6 months

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Disk Drivers

by Matthew Whitehead

I'm getting a tad frustrated with the otherwise excellent Supnik PDP-11 emulators. Can anyone tell me (or give me the adb commands to figure it out myself) what disk device drivers are present in the bootable disk images that come with the Supnik simulator? The versions I'm interested are: V6 image: - rkunix (rk) - rkunix.40 (rk, PDP-11/40 cpu?) - unix V7 image: - hphtunix (hp) - hptmunix (hp) - rkunix (rk) - rl2unix (obviously hacked to include rl driver) - rphtunix (rp) - rptmunix (rp) Matthew (mrw(a)apple.com)

23 years, 6 months

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Re: [pups] The Software Tools Virtual Operating System

by SHOPPA＠trailing-edge.com

>I know this is somewhat off topic, but there is a connection. > >I am trying to track down a copy of the distribution of: > The Software Tools Virtual Operating System > >The last known repository of the complete system was apparently USENIX. >They have been unable to find a copy anywhere up to this point, so I'm >asking here as there must be many long time members in this group. > >Does anyone still have a copy of this and could I possibly get it?? >I really need to find a copy for a project I want to work on. Point yourself towards ftp://ftp.trailing-edge.com/pub/rsx11freewarev2/rsx81a/ In the 30703* directories you will find: [307,30] TOOLGEN.CMD, the command file for building the LBL Software Tools Virtual Operating System. The release notes for the VOS are also contained in this UIC. [307,31] Fortran and macro sources for VOS. [307,32] Manual entries for VOS utilities. [307,33] Ratfor source files for VOS utilities. [307,34] Source files for variable-length send/receive driver. [307,35] Source files for virtual aether driver. Tim.

23 years, 6 months

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[pups] The Software Tools Virtual Operating System

by Bill Gunshannon

I know this is somewhat off topic, but there is a connection. I am trying to track down a copy of the distribution of: The Software Tools Virtual Operating System The last known repository of the complete system was apparently USENIX. They have been unable to find a copy anywhere up to this point, so I'm asking here as there must be many long time members in this group. Does anyone still have a copy of this and could I possibly get it?? I really need to find a copy for a project I want to work on. Any help would be greatly appreciated. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>

23 years, 6 months

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Re: Obtaining Ancient Licenses from Caldera

by Warren Toomey

In article by Jonathan Engdahl: > I sold a PDP-11/23 with 2.9BSD on it, and directed the buyer to the Caldera > page below. The license page is there, but when you click "accept", the link > is broken. Both he and I emailed Caldera about the problem. We'll see what > happens. > > Is there any backup plan for licensing if Caldera doesn't come through? Yes, just go to http://www.tuhs.org/archive_access.html, I've given up on referrals from SCO or Caldera for now. Warren

23 years, 6 months

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[pups] Re: Free UNIX licenses

by Warren Toomey

In article by Jonathan Engdahl: > It looks like the SCO free UNIX license page moved: > http://shop.caldera.com/caldera/ancient.html > > I hope Caldera continues the free license policy. Thanks for the heads-up Johnathan. It looks like the license is unchanged, so for now we're ok. But I should contact someone there & see if we can open it up a bit more :) Warren

23 years, 7 months

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[PUPS] Change of PUPS Mail-list software

by Warren Toomey

All, I'm thinking of switching from Majordomo to Mailman for the mailing lists run on minnie.tuhs.org. I thought I'd try it out on the PUPS mailing list to start with, because it is so quiet, and also to maybe get some postings going again. Mailman has several advantages: - list archives are created and have a web interface - subscribers can easily change their details - list management can also be done via the web. You can go to http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups to use the web interface to change your subscription. If things don't seem to be working, please let me know at my e-mail address of wkt(a)tuhs.org Cheers, Warren

23 years, 7 months

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[pups] KXJ11-CA / M7616 doc wanted.

by jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de

Hi. I have this nice KXJ11-CA but I have no clue how to use it. I was able to get to the ODT prompt, but nothing else. I need pinouts, jumper descriptions, memory map (where are the EPROMs?), ... How to use that digital IO port? ... My idea is to use it in a my MicroVAX 4000-200 with the VAX as "frontend processor". So I would be able to run NetBSD/vax and perhaps 2.9BSD in the same box. -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

23 years, 7 months

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[pups] A 2nd http mirror of the Unix Archive

by Warren Toomey

All, Oleg Safiullin has set up a Unix Archive mirror outside of Australia. You can find it at: http://unix-archive.pdp11.org.ru He is using the same username & password list as www.tuhs.org is. Thanks to Oleg for setting this up. Warren P.S I do have a number of other people interested in setting up other mirrors. When I get back from this week's conference, I'll contact you all. Return-Path: <owner-pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org> Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.tuhs.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f8R5Wfi62530 for pups-liszt; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:32:41 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by minnie.tuhs.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f8R5WbZ62518; Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:32:37 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)minnie.tuhs.org> Message-Id: <200109270532.f8R5WbZ62518(a)minnie.tuhs.org> Subject: [pups] A 2nd http mirror of the Unix Archive To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org, pups(a)tuhs.org Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 15:32:37 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)tuhs.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org Precedence: bulk All, Oleg Safiullin has set up a Unix Archive mirror outside of Australia. You can find it at: http://unix-archive.pdp11.org.ru He is using the same username & password list as www.tuhs.org is. Thanks to Oleg for setting this up. Warren P.S I do have a number of other people interested in setting up other mirrors. When I get back from this week's conference, I'll contact you all.

23 years, 7 months

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[pups] BSD 2.11 SL/IP and sim2.3d+BB1

by PUP

I know that there must be some setup guides for BSD2.11 still floating around there, but I have not been able to find anything.. Here is what I am trying to do: I noticed that the sim2.3d+BB1 emulator will allow you to connect Unix "devices" to the DL1 lines. I set it to connect the serial port on my Linux box, and connected a IBM 3151 (VT100 like terminal), and it worked great! Taking this a step further, I took the serial port and moved it to my Cisco router (the aux port).. I have been trying to configure SL/IP on it.. I first setup my Linux box to connect to the router via slip so that I can verify my cisco config. I am having trouble on the BSD side.. As far as I can tell it is not routing replys over the sl0 interface.. (Or the emulator is cooking the serial data...) A final test I tried to connect to copies of sim2.3d+BB1 via pty's.. same thing. The good part is when you try to telnet from the router, you can see the socket accept on the BSD side.. The BSD box seems not to reply.. Additionally I saw some stuff on increasing the size of CBLOCK in param.h (my default was 32, I tried 64), which seemed to have no effect. I started SL/IP by running slattach ttyl1 9600 then ifconfig sl0 10.1.1.1 10.1.1.2 up by default as this I can't ping the 10.1.1.1 (my side).. so I added a route route add 10.1.1.1 127.0.0.1 0 I don't know if I have to do this... Oh the image that I'm using is the 2.11_rp_unknown from the archive.. (It has a note that it is patch level 400.) Also the person that maintains BSD 2.11's site is down.. bummer.. Sorry for the rambling! Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.tuhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA96454 for pups-liszt; Thu, 17 May 2001 14:04:16 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Thu May 17 13:52:31 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.tuhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA96450 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 17 May 2001 14:04:12 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f4H3qVx16950 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 16 May 2001 20:52:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 16 May 2001 20:52:31 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200105170352.f4H3qVx16950(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] BSD 2.11 SL/IP and sim2.3d+BB1 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > From: PUP <jstevep(a)tron.superglobalmegacorp.com> I've taken the liberty of adding <\n> characters - something about 1k character lines bugs me ;) > I know that there must be some setup guides for BSD2.11 still floating > around there, but I have not been able to find anything.. Here is what I /usr/doc/2.10/setup.2.11 bit of a misnomer and it's a long enough story I won't bother anyone with the details. That's the raw troff sources though. If it's the formatted version that is wanted there should be a copy in the 2.11 portion of the PUPS/TUHS section of the archive. It shows up at PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD and there are also complete tarballs and a dump of the root filesystem all at rev level 431. It should be a simple matter of putting the bits on tape/disk (using the makesimtape or similar utility provided with the emulator being used). At that point the normal 2.11 installation process can be followed - there have only been 5 updates since then (432 thru 436) so catching up wouldn't be hard at all. > I noticed that the sim2.3d+BB1 emulator will allow you to connect Unix > "devices" to the DL1 lines. I set it to connect the serial port on my Linux > box, and connected a IBM 3151 (VT100 like terminal), and it worked great! Probably doing 7E1 and just about anything would work with that ;) > Taking this a step further, I took the serial port and moved it to my Cisco > router (the aux port).. I have been trying to configure SL/IP on it.. That'll definitely require a 'raw' or 8bit clean path and I don't know if the sim2.3d does that or not - never tried it. The stock sim2.3d doesn't appear to have extra serial line support - or if it does it isn't obvious. Perhaps that is what the BB1 part is about. > I first setup my Linux box to connect to the router via slip so that I can > verify my cisco config. I am having trouble on the BSD side.. As far as I > can tell it is not routing replys over the sl0 interface.. (Or the emulator > is cooking the serial data...) That's a real possibility. The 'slattach' command on the 11 side will take care of setting all the modes so that an 8bit path is obtained. If the emulator is stripping the parity bit (which wouldn't show up in the normal "hook a terminal up" test) then SL/IP will obviously have problems. You might have better luck with the Begemot emulator P11. No need for SL/IP since P11 has an emulated DEQNA ethernet driver. > A final test I tried to connect to copies of sim2.3d+BB1 via pty's.. same > thing. The good part is when you try to telnet from the router, you can see > the socket accept on the BSD side.. The BSD box seems not to reply.. > Additionally I saw some stuff on increasing the size of CBLOCK in param.h > (my default was 32, I tried 64), which seemed to have no effect. I'd not muck about with CBLOCK - it doesn't really buy much and from the sounds of things aren't getting anywhere near the conditions that comment was aimed at. > I started SL/IP by running > slattach ttyl1 9600 > then > ifconfig sl0 10.1.1.1 10.1.1.2 up That should be all that's necessary > by default as this I can't ping the 10.1.1.1 (my side).. so I added a route > > route add 10.1.1.1 127.0.0.1 0 > I don't know if I have to do this... You shouldn't have to do that because in /etc/netstart, if things are set up right you would have: slattach ttyl1 9600 ifconfig sl0 10.1.1.1 10.1.1.2 up route add $hostname localhost 0 route add default $default 1 So if 'hostname' and 'default' are set at the top of the file all the routing is all set to go. Just make sure that 'ifconfig sl0' happens before 'ifconfig lo0 ...'. Also, by default the C library is compiled to use DNS resolver routines so it will likely be necessary to use a combination of numeric IP addresses and entries in /etc/hosts > Oh the image that I'm using is the 2.11_rp_unknown from the archive.. > (It has a note that it is patch level 400.) That is fairly old, but SL/IP hasn't changed since the system came out eons ago. > Also the person that maintains BSD 2.11's site is down.. bummer.. It has _never_ been down except for a reboot the other day to install another 512MB of memory a week or so ago. With a 1400VA UPS the system can ride out most of the power problems California's having. If the FTP site here is unreachable you might try going to the mirror at FTP.TO.GD-ES.COM - all the updates are in /pub/2.11BSD Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.tuhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA96508 for pups-liszt; Thu, 17 May 2001 14:11:44 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu May 17 14:00:06 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.tuhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA96503 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 17 May 2001 14:11:41 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f4H406m51958; Thu, 17 May 2001 14:00:06 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200105170400.f4H406m51958(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] BSD 2.11 SL/IP and sim2.3d+BB1 In-Reply-To: <200105170352.f4H3qVx16950(a)moe.2bsd.com> from "Steven M. Schultz" at "May 16, 2001 08:52:31 pm" To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 14:00:06 +1000 (EST) CC: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Reply-To: wkt(a)tuhs.org X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Steven M. Schultz: >> I noticed that the sim2.3d+BB1 emulator will allow you to connect Unix >> "devices" to the DL1 lines. I set it to connect the serial port on my Linux >> box, and connected a IBM 3151 (VT100 like terminal), and it worked great! > > Probably doing 7E1 and just about anything would work with that ;) > > > Taking this a step further, I took the serial port and moved it to my Cisco > > router (the aux port).. I have been trying to configure SL/IP on it.. > > That'll definitely require a 'raw' or 8bit clean path and I don't know > if the sim2.3d does that or not - never tried it. The stock sim2.3d > doesn't appear to have extra serial line support - or if it does it > isn't obvious. Perhaps that is what the BB1 part is about. I can confirm that sim2.3d is not 8-bit clean on output. I got bitten on this when working on Vtserver, and I tore my hair out for a whole day. 443c449 < if ((temp = sim_putchar (tto_unit.buf & 0177)) != SCPE_OK) return temp; --- > if ((temp = sim_putchar (tto_unit.buf)) != SCPE_OK) return temp; It is 8-bit clean on input. Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.tuhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA97320 for pups-liszt; Thu, 17 May 2001 17:04:28 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From PUP <jstevep(a)tron.superglobalmegacorp.com> Thu May 17 17:37:56 2001 Received: from tron.superglobalmegacorp.com ([12.21.28.170]) by minnie.tuhs.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA97316 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 17 May 2001 17:04:24 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jstevep(a)tron.superglobalmegacorp.com) Received: (from jstevep@localhost) by tron.superglobalmegacorp.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f4H7buK16947 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 17 May 2001 02:37:56 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 17 May 2001 02:37:56 -0500 (EST) From: PUP <jstevep(a)tron.superglobalmegacorp.com> Message-Id: <200105170737.f4H7buK16947(a)tron.superglobalmegacorp.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] BSD 2.11 SL/IP and sim2.3d+BB1 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Thanks for the pointer, I found the part you mentioned for the ASCII clean up and removed them from the DL11 and KL11 drivers, and noticed that I need to detect the 0 device so the console is usable =) but the big thing is that I telneted into the VM using slip ok!!!! Thanks again, I didn't know what to look for in the source (I was looking @ the other half in the attach stuff not I/O (doh!)) If you want/need I'll gladly diff mine out... Oh btw Steven, every time I try to ftp the site, I get connection closed.. It 's definatly "up" but I can't get to it.. does your site try to reverse lookup clients? if so, that's the issue.. I don't have reverse entries for dns. Thanks again!

24 years

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[pups] John Wilson / DBit offline

by Fred N. van Kempen

Hi all, In case you're trying to get a hold of John Wilson, or were going to look at his web site... no go. Due to a fairly serious ISP, uhh, "issue", his machine died on him. I talked to him last night, and he was going to see if he could revive his (co-lo) machine, or would have to install a new one. Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen Fred.van.Kempen(a)MicroWalt.NL Microsoft MCSE+I/MCSE/MCSD Compaq ASE/ACT UNIX Systems Programmer Cisco ACRC/CCDA/CCNA/SupportPro InterNetworking en Network Security Consultant MicroWalt Corporation (Netherlands), Korte Heul 95, 1403 ND BUSSUM Phone +31 (35) 6980059 FAX +31 (35) 6980215 http://WWW.MicroWalt.NL/ Dit bericht en eventuele bijlagen is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Openbaarmaking, vermenigvuldiging, verspreiding aan derden is niet toegestaan. Er wordt geen verantwoordelijkheid genomen voor de juiste en volledige overbrenging van de inhoud van dit bericht, noch voor de tijdige ontvangst ervan.

24 years

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[pups] Change of PUPS list address

by Warren Toomey

All, The machine which hosts the pups mailing list, minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au, is going to change its domain name in mid-July. To help alleviate any problems, I have taken out a separate domain, and have put in aliases to the current minnie address, and will migrate the aliases to the new address when the time comes. So, if possible could you send e-mail to the pups mailing list using the address pups(a)tuhs.org from now on. Thanks, Warren Toomey wkt(a)tuhs.org

24 years

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[pups] missing V6 Docs

by Wolfgang Helbig

Hi, In "SETTING UP UNIX - Sixth Edition" some documents are mentioned that are not in the V6 distribution (v6doc in from Dennis or the corresponding part of the tape from Ken Wellsch). These are: (numbers from the cover page) 10. NROFF Users' Manual 12. A Manual for the Tmg compiler-writing Language 14. The M6 Macro Processor 15. A System for Typewriting Mathematics 16. DC - An interactive desk calculator Does anyone know, why these docs were not included in the distribution if they are somewhere on minnies disks? I am only searching for the V6 docs, not V7, where these files were distributed. Just curious. Wolfgang Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA60328 for pups-liszt; Wed, 2 May 2001 09:16:53 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Ian King" <iking(a)microsoft.com> Wed May 2 09:06:28 2001 Received: from mail5.microsoft.com (mail5.microsoft.com [131.107.3.121]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA60324 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 2 May 2001 09:16:49 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.7.67 by mail5.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 01 May 2001 16:06:37 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Received: from red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.12.71]) by inet-imc-04.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.2883); Tue, 1 May 2001 16:06:29 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.4688.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Subject: RE: [pups] missing V6 Docs Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 16:06:28 -0700 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEE43(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [pups] missing V6 Docs Thread-Index: AcDSkhyKhFEdVS1oROOZeiHhCJbMgAAALYgg From: "Ian King" <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "Wolfgang Helbig" <helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE>, <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 May 2001 23:06:29.0285 (UTC) FILETIME=[5ADD4550:01C0D293] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au id JAA60325 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I recall stumbling across them in an odd place in Ken Wellsch's distribution. I'll try to remember to look when I get home (it's on my PDP-11) and send another mail -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Wolfgang Helbig [mailto:helbig@Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE] Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2001 3:19 PM To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: [pups] missing V6 Docs Hi, In "SETTING UP UNIX - Sixth Edition" some documents are mentioned that are not in the V6 distribution (v6doc in from Dennis or the corresponding part of the tape from Ken Wellsch). These are: (numbers from the cover page) 10. NROFF Users' Manual 12. A Manual for the Tmg compiler-writing Language 14. The M6 Macro Processor 15. A System for Typewriting Mathematics 16. DC - An interactive desk calculator Does anyone know, why these docs were not included in the distribution if they are somewhere on minnies disks? I am only searching for the V6 docs, not V7, where these files were distributed. Just curious. Wolfgang

24 years

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Re: [pups] V6 and Supnik-simulator

by Wolfgang Helbig

Hi, Warren put the v6enb.tar.gz into http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS/Archive/PDP-11/Bug_Fixes/V6enb/ Thank you, Warren! Besides some minor and rather unimportant changes to V6, this file contains README files, that try to explain how to install UNIX V6 on Bob Supnik's simulator from the tape file provided by Ken Wellsch. These setup instructions are aimed at the beginner level with regard to UNIX as well as to the simulator. The "bug fixes" are supplied as "diff -e" files on tp-formatted tape files, ready to be used by the simulator. Two simple ANSI-C programs are provided to insert (enblock) or remove (deblock) blocking information in tape files needed by Bob's simulator. Have fun, Wolfgang

24 years

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[pups] Berkeley Pascal

by Lars J. Buitinck

I was browsing through the 2.11BSD docs on my OpenBSD PC, and I noticed I couldn't format the Pascal manuals. Can anybody format them for me in (if at all possible) PostScript format, or else plain TXT (with ^H_ and other more(1) hacks ofcourse)? I haven't got 2.11 to work in simh yet, otherwise I'd try it in 2.11. -- If I traveled to the end of the rainbow As Dame Fortune did intend, Murphy would be there to tell me The pot's at the other end. -- Bert Whitney Lars J. Buitinck

24 years

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[pups] Dead RD54... heeelp!

by Fred N. van Kempen

All, My RD54 just died on me. It spins up, but, apparently, not all the way.. it does not make its usual calibration sound anymore. After this, the drive seems to be dead. Does this sound familiar? Is it the HDA or the electronics? (I have another RD54, perhaps I can exchange the electronics pcb's ?) --fred (__sigh__) -- Fred N. van Kempen Fred.van.Kempen(a)MicroWalt.NL Microsoft MCSE+I/MCSE/MCSD Compaq ASE/ACT UNIX Systems Programmer Cisco ACRC/CCDA/CCNA/SupportPro InterNetworking en Network Security Consultant MicroWalt Corporation (Netherlands), Korte Heul 95, 1403 ND BUSSUM Phone +31 (35) 6980059 FAX +31 (35) 6980215 http://WWW.MicroWalt.NL/ Dit bericht en eventuele bijlagen is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Openbaarmaking, vermenigvuldiging, verspreiding aan derden is niet toegestaan. Er wordt geen verantwoordelijkheid genomen voor de juiste en volledige overbrenging van de inhoud van dit bericht, noch voor de tijdige ontvangst ervan.

24 years, 1 month

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[pups] Maximum PDP-11 executable size?

by Edward Brocklesby

Hi, I'm having problems compiling some large-ish programs on 2.11BSD, for example MH. Even when putting *everything* on overlays, I still get an error: [ejb@styx] ~/mh-6.8.4.orig/uip > /bin/ld -i -X -o xforw /lib/crt0.o -Z forw.o -Z whatnowproc.o -Z whatnowsbr.o -Z sendsbr.o -Z annosbr.o -Z distsbr.o -Z ../config/config.o -Z ../sbr/libmh.a -Z ../mts/libmts.a -Z ../zotnet/libzot.a -Z -lc -Z -lerrlst -Z ../config/version.o ld: too big for type 431 (problem 2: tsize = 0, ovrnd = 8192, dtotal = 0) [ejb@styx] ~/mh-6.8.4.orig/uip > is there any way around this, or is MH just too big to fix on a PDP? -larne- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA56896 for pups-liszt; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:01:25 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Fri Apr 20 09:47:22 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA56892 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:01:20 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3JNlMq22283 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:47:22 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 16:47:22 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200104192347.f3JNlMq22283(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Maximum PDP-11 executable size? Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> > I'm having problems compiling some large-ish programs on 2.11BSD, for example > MH. Even when putting *everything* on overlays, I still get an error: It has been eons and eons since I attempted MH and I can't remember if I gave up or finally got something to work (shows how long its been ;)). > [ejb@styx] ~/mh-6.8.4.orig/uip > /bin/ld -i -X -o xforw /lib/crt0.o -Z forw.o > -Z whatnowproc.o -Z whatnowsbr.o -Z sendsbr.o -Z annosbr.o -Z distsbr.o -Z > ../config/config.o -Z ../sbr/libmh.a -Z ../mts/libmts.a -Z ../zotnet/libzot.a > -Z -lc -Z -lerrlst -Z ../config/version.o > ld: too big for type 431 (problem 2: tsize = 0, ovrnd = 8192, dtotal = 0) > [ejb@styx] ~/mh-6.8.4.orig/uip > Hmmm, I grep'd the current source to 'ld' and couldn't find the message "problem 2: ...". I do remember that being present during the debugging of 'ld' when the long symbol names (the "string table" aka 4.3BSD a.out format) capability was being developed. That suggests that 'ld' might be out of date. The answer to the 'Maximum PDP-11 executable size?' question is fairly length and a bit involved ;). Assuming split I/D: Short answer: 120KB to 904KB Long answer: without overlays there is one 64KB code segment and one 56KB data segment giving 120KB for a non overlaid program. In practice if a program hits 56KB out of 'ld' then there's no room for malloc() and the program may link but it won't run ;( For overlaid programs there is still but one 56KB data segment (the top 8KB is for the stack) but now the code can be arranged differently: There is a maximum of 15 overlays and there can be no 'gaps' (zero length/empty overlays between populated overlays). BASE OVERLAYSIZE TOTALTEXT 8KB 56KB * 15 840KB 16KB 48KB * 15 736KB 24KB 40KB * 15 624KB 32KB 32KB * 15 512KB 40KB 24KB * 15 400KB 48KB 16KB * 15 288KB 56KB 8KB * 15 176KB In reality the kernel probably would choke on the first several cases, and even if it didn't that large of a program would cause severe swapping. Most overlaid programs on the system ('vi' for example) use either the base=48KB or base=56KB layout. I think 'kermit' might use the 40KB base segment. The "tsize" error would indicate that the code size summing had an overflow - that was a bug at one time and was later fixed, which again suggests that the 'ld' is out dated somehow. If 'ld' was able to create 'xforw' try doing a "size xforw" on it and seeing how far it got - perhaps a clue can be gathered that way. You may need to usually terminate the overlay list with a -Y - I don't believe it's "required" though. -Z -lc -Z -lerrlst -Y ../config/version.o > is there any way around this, or is MH just too big to fix on a PDP? Couple things to try. Use 'size' on the .o (and/or .a) files to see how big things are - add them up and see if things start overflowing 16 bits. There was an overflow bug in ld's size computations - it was fixed by using a 'long' in a couple places to detect wraparound. What version of 2.11 (should be in the first couple lines of /VERSION) are you using? Sure feels like 'ld' is old and having problems that were fixed later on. Steven Schultz sms(a)to.gd-es.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA57165 for pups-liszt; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:57:13 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Fri Apr 20 10:48:19 2001 Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (pc62-oxf1.cable.ntl.com [62.254.132.62]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA57161 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:57:08 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from ejb(a)leguin.org.uk) Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (klamath [127.0.0.1]) by klamath.leguin.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id BAA17554; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 01:48:21 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: klamath.leguin.org.uk: Host klamath [127.0.0.1] claimed to be klamath.leguin.org.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Organization: Leguin Network Services To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Maximum PDP-11 executable size? Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 01:48:19 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <200104192347.f3JNlMq22283(a)moe.2bsd.com> In-Reply-To: <200104192347.f3JNlMq22283(a)moe.2bsd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01042001482004.00527(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Friday 20 April 2001 12:47 am, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > > [ejb@styx] ~/mh-6.8.4.orig/uip > /bin/ld -i -X -o xforw /lib/crt0.o -Z > > forw.o -Z whatnowproc.o -Z whatnowsbr.o -Z sendsbr.o -Z annosbr.o -Z > > distsbr.o -Z ../config/config.o -Z ../sbr/libmh.a -Z ../mts/libmts.a -Z > > ../zotnet/libzot.a -Z -lc -Z -lerrlst -Z ../config/version.o > > ld: too big for type 431 (problem 2: tsize = 0, ovrnd = 8192, dtotal = 0) > > [ejb@styx] ~/mh-6.8.4.orig/uip > > > Hmmm, I grep'd the current source to 'ld' and couldn't find the > message "problem 2: ...". I do remember that being present during That's something I added myself, to try to help with the problem.. > That suggests that 'ld' might be out of date. /VERSION says: Current Patch Level: 400 Date: January 24, 1998 That's what was on the PUPS FTP site.. > without overlays there is one 64KB code segment and one 56KB data > segment giving 120KB for a non overlaid program. In practice if a > program hits 56KB out of 'ld' then there's no room for malloc() and > the program may link but it won't run ;( > > For overlaid programs there is still but one 56KB data segment (the top > 8KB is for the stack) but now the code can be arranged differently: > > There is a maximum of 15 overlays and there can be no 'gaps' (zero > length/empty overlays between populated overlays). > > BASE OVERLAYSIZE TOTALTEXT > 8KB 56KB * 15 840KB > 16KB 48KB * 15 736KB > 24KB 40KB * 15 624KB > 32KB 32KB * 15 512KB > 40KB 24KB * 15 400KB > 48KB 16KB * 15 288KB > 56KB 8KB * 15 176KB > > In reality the kernel probably would choke on the first several cases, > and even if it didn't that large of a program would cause severe > swapping. > > Most overlaid programs on the system ('vi' for example) use either the > base=48KB or base=56KB layout. I think 'kermit' might use the 40KB > base segment. hm.. how do you specify the base segment size to ld? i don't see anything in the manual page. Just link enough code into the base that it becomes the right size? > The "tsize" error would indicate that the code size summing had an > overflow - that was a bug at one time and was later fixed, which > again suggests that the 'ld' is out dated somehow. possibly, i will look on the 2BSD patch archives now.. > If 'ld' was able to create 'xforw' try doing a "size xforw" on it > and seeing how far it got - perhaps a clue can be gathered that > way. text data bss dec hex 27648 35860 32412 95920 176b0 total text: 83072 overlays: 832,4352,2624,832,1920,29568,192,11008,4096 this particular link gave the error: ld: too big for type 431 (problem 2: tsize = 0, ovrnd = -32768, dtotal = 0) the negative ovrnd i find very strange- perhaps the wrapround bug? > You may need to usually terminate the overlay list with a -Y - I don't > believe it's "required" though. > > -Z -lc -Z -lerrlst -Y ../config/version.o nope.. this doesn't seem to help > > is there any way around this, or is MH just too big to fix on a PDP? > > Couple things to try. Use 'size' on the .o (and/or .a) files to > see how big things are - add them up and see if things start overflowing > 16 bits. There was an overflow bug in ld's size computations - it was > fixed by using a 'long' in a couple places to detect wraparound. Well, considering that there's a couple of *large* libraries here.. -rw-r--r-- 1 ejb 127074 Apr 9 14:47 ../zotnet/libzot.a -rw-r--r-- 1 ejb 102126 Apr 9 14:39 ../sbr/libmh.a maybe that's the problem.. -larne- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA57746 for pups-liszt; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:01:24 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Fri Apr 20 12:42:54 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA57741 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:01:19 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3K2gsf23361 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:42:54 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:42:54 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200104200242.f3K2gsf23361(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Maximum PDP-11 executable size? Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > > message "problem 2: ...". I do remember that being present during > > That's something I added myself, to try to help with the problem.. Ok - whew, for a minute there I thought some of my debug code had leaked to the world ;) That's the style of debug message I use <g> > /VERSION says: > Current Patch Level: 400 > Date: January 24, 1998 Ouch - that is a bit old, there are updates thru 434 (I've 435 in midstream but haven't had time to finish it). > That's what was on the PUPS FTP site.. Ah. Much becomes clear now. That indeed was the version at one time. A year or so ago I and Warren coordinated an update to the 2.11 in PUPS The current PUPS version is 431 (only 3 updates since then - I've slowed down a lot over the last couple years). > hm.. how do you specify the base segment size to ld? i don't see anything in You don't. At least not directly. Anything outside an overlay goes into the base segment. Thus anything before the first -Z goes into the base, and anything after the -Y goes into the base. > the manual page. Just link enough code into the base that it becomes the > right size? That's basically the way to do it. You can do "size" on the .o files first to get an idea what you want to put where but after that tuning the overlays to fit is a bit of an art. > text data bss dec hex > 27648 35860 32412 95920 176b0 total text: 83072 > overlays: 832,4352,2624,832,1920,29568,192,11008,4096 the single BIGGEST problem is that 'data + bss' exceeds not only the 56KB limit but the total 64KB limit available to a process. Looks like MH want 35860+32412 or 68272 bytes of D space. You might be able to get the code to fit - I'd pack the base to at least 40KB (more likely 48KB) and only have two or three overlays of 24KB or 16KB. THe data space problem means you're going to have to go and lower a lot of the buffer size limits. Remember: even if you do get the dataspace down to where the linker doesn't complain the program will almost certainly try to malloc() memory. Thus the smaller the data+bss the better - and be prepared for malloc() failures One thing that can be done is to run 'xstr' over the sources and collect error message strings, printf strings, and so on into a common pool. The other thing that can be done is create a strings file and extract as many as possible strings from the source modules into an external file. Examples of doing this type of thing can be found in the source tree - 'lint' was one such program, 'sendmail' was another and kermit yet another (that's why there are 'sendmail.sr' and 'kermit5.sr' files on the system). In fact 'kermit' is a good example of squishing a monster program into a small machine. Check out /usr/src/new/kermit5.188 > ld: too big for type 431 (problem 2: tsize = 0, ovrnd = -32768, dtotal = 0) > > the negative ovrnd i find very strange- perhaps the wrapround bug? Hmmm, could be. > Well, considering that there's a couple of *large* libraries here.. > -rw-r--r-- 1 ejb 127074 Apr 9 14:47 ../zotnet/libzot.a > -rw-r--r-- 1 ejb 102126 Apr 9 14:39 ../sbr/libmh.a > > maybe that's the problem.. The size of the .a doesn't accurately reflect the code+text+bss For one thing 'bss' takes up no room at all in an archive. Don't forget that symbol tables and relocation information (as well as 'ar' book keeping info) is present. You can't rely on "ls -l" to say very much about an object file - only "size" can do that. "size libmh.a" will give a much better idea where the problem areas are. Steven Schultz sms(a)to.gd-es.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA58045 for pups-liszt; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:21:45 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Fri Apr 20 14:12:58 2001 Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (pc62-oxf1.cable.ntl.com [62.254.132.62]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA58041 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:21:41 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from ejb(a)leguin.org.uk) Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (klamath [127.0.0.1]) by klamath.leguin.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id FAA19106; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 05:12:59 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: klamath.leguin.org.uk: Host klamath [127.0.0.1] claimed to be klamath.leguin.org.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Organization: Leguin Network Services To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Maximum PDP-11 executable size? Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 05:12:58 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <200104200242.f3K2gsf23361(a)moe.2bsd.com> In-Reply-To: <200104200242.f3K2gsf23361(a)moe.2bsd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01042005125805.00527(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Friday 20 April 2001 3:42 am, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > the single BIGGEST problem is that 'data + bss' exceeds not only the > 56KB limit but the total 64KB limit available to a process. Looks > like MH want 35860+32412 or 68272 bytes of D space. > > You might be able to get the code to fit - I'd pack the base to at > least 40KB (more likely 48KB) and only have two or three overlays > of 24KB or 16KB. The problem appears to be `libmh.a', which alone has 30K text + 22K data + 24K bss (77444 total). Any way around this? I've tried all the combinations i can think of, to no avail.. > One thing that can be done is to run 'xstr' over the sources and > collect error message strings, printf strings, and so on into a common > pool. The other thing that can be done is create a strings file > and extract as many as possible strings from the source modules into > an external file. Examples of doing this type of thing can be found > in the source tree - 'lint' was one such program, 'sendmail' was another > and kermit yet another (that's why there are 'sendmail.sr' and > 'kermit5.sr' files on the system). hmm... a lot of work just to get MH working. > > ld: too big for type 431 (problem 2: tsize = 0, ovrnd = -32768, dtotal = > > 0) > > > > the negative ovrnd i find very strange- perhaps the wrapround bug? > > Hmmm, could be. Could be i used the wrong printf format also.. > "size libmh.a" will give a much better idea where the problem areas > are. unfortunately, size doesn't appear to work on archive libraries. -larne- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA58237 for pups-liszt; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:01:25 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Fri Apr 20 14:49:59 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA58232 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:01:21 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f3K4nxv24294 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 21:49:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 21:49:59 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200104200449.f3K4nxv24294(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Maximum PDP-11 executable size? Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> > The problem appears to be `libmh.a', which alone has 30K text + 22K data + > 24K bss (77444 total). Any way around this? I've tried all the combinations > i can think of, to no avail.. I think this would be a very good time to point out that 'data' is NOT overlaid, only the text is overlaid. There is but 1 data segment and all data+bss goes into it. Text overlays work because there's a very careful dance done by the assembler and linker. Functions use a 'thunk' (intermediate transfer vector) - thus when a program calls foo() it is really calling something like ~foo(). That thunk performs part of the function prolog and then checks if the overlay mapping needs to changeoa and if so makes a syscall to have the kernel twiddle the MMU. Then the thunk calls foo+4 (skipping the part of the function prolog that has already been done). Very elegant but completely unapplicable to data references (think on it - how is each and every pointer dereference to be checked to see if that data is mapped in?). In order to get the code to fit it would be necessary to extract all of the .o files from the .a file ("ar x libmh.a") and pack the .o files into overlays so they fit nicely. > > One thing that can be done is to run 'xstr' over the sources and > > hmm... a lot of work just to get MH working. Getting 32bit programs (and MH was done on a VAX or PDP10 (which is actually a 36 bit machine ;)) to run on a 16 bit machine is a lot of work. Since MH was written with a large address space in mind it will likely be necessary to go thru the code and find the "#define BUFSIZE 32000" or whatever and scale things back. The odds are good that many buffers are declared to be large just because it didn't matter on a big address space machine. That's what had to be done for 'vi', 'sendmail', 'kermit', etc. > > "size libmh.a" will give a much better idea where the problem areas > > are. > > unfortunately, size doesn't appear to work on archive libraries. Oh. Darn, I got my systems mixed up. On some systems 'size' will work on .a files - something to put on the TODO pile (shouldn't be too hard since 'nm' works with .a files). Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA58368 for pups-liszt; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:35:23 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Fri Apr 20 15:26:25 2001 Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (pc62-oxf1.cable.ntl.com [62.254.132.62]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA58364 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 15:35:18 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from ejb(a)leguin.org.uk) Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (klamath [127.0.0.1]) by klamath.leguin.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id GAA19840; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 06:26:27 +0100 X-Authentication-Warning: klamath.leguin.org.uk: Host klamath [127.0.0.1] claimed to be klamath.leguin.org.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Organization: Leguin Network Services To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Maximum PDP-11 executable size? Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 06:26:25 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <200104200449.f3K4nxv24294(a)moe.2bsd.com> In-Reply-To: <200104200449.f3K4nxv24294(a)moe.2bsd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01042006262506.00527(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Friday 20 April 2001 5:49 am, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > In order to get the code to fit it would be necessary to extract > all of the .o files from the .a file ("ar x libmh.a") and > pack the .o files into overlays so they fit nicely. hmm.. i might have a look at doing this after i get xstr working. > Getting 32bit programs (and MH was done on a VAX or PDP10 (which is > actually a 36 bit machine ;)) to run on a 16 bit machine is a lot of > work. 36bit with 9bit bytes, iirc .. fun :> I'm currently converting libmh.a to use xstr, but I've come across a problem.. given the definition static char unixbuf[BUFSIZ] = ""; xstr generates the code static char unixbuf[BUFSIZ] = (&xstr[0]); which the C compiler refuses to compile. Any way around this? -larne- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA59071 for pups-liszt; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:41:53 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> Fri Apr 20 17:37:28 2001 Received: from RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (isdn258.s.netic.de [212.9.163.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA59067 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:41:48 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE) Received: (from helbig@localhost) by RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f3K7bSv10954; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:37:28 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:37:28 +0200 (CEST) From: Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> Message-Id: <200104200737.f3K7bSv10954(a)RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> To: helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE, leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de Subject: Re: [pups] V6 and Supnik-simulator Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > > If the following README sounds interesting to you, maybe we can > > arrange to put a tar ball of it onto minnie? > > > > I also prepared postscript files of the V6-documentation. > > Anyone interested? > > > Yes, me in example :-). I wonder wether you could give them to dmr to be > placed just at the side of the v7 docs, or wether you could put it > into the archive? I asked Dennis, and he told me, the best place for those directories is the minnie archive. So I'd like to put it there, but don't know how to. Wolfgang > > Regards -- Markus > > > > > Wolfgang > > > > First README: > > UNIX V6 on the Supnik simulator: > > -------------------------------- > > This directory contains tape files for the Supnik simulator and > > accompaning README files, which I produced when preparing an OS [...] > > Second README: > > This directory contains some documentation as found on the UNIX V6 > > Distribution tape. The files were converted to postscript with > > groff and the usage of the V6 ms-macro package. (See the print > > shell script) [...] Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA59307 for pups-liszt; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:22:59 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Markus E Leypold <leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Fri Apr 20 18:15:44 2001 Received: from mx2.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (mx2.Informatik.Uni-Tuebingen.De [134.2.12.9]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA59303 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:22:55 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de) Received: from neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (neuromancer [134.2.12.58]) by mx2.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id C80C01066; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:14:18 +0200 (MST) Received: (from leypold@localhost) by neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (8.9.3/8.8.7) id IAA01537; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:15:44 GMT Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 08:15:44 GMT Message-Id: <200104200815.IAA01537(a)neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de: leypold set sender to leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de using -f From: Markus E Leypold <leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> To: helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE Cc: helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au In-reply-to: <200104200737.f3K7bSv10954(a)RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> (message from Wolfgang Helbig on Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:37:28 +0200 (CEST)) Subject: Re: [pups] V6 and Supnik-simulator References: <200104200737.f3K7bSv10954(a)RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > Delivered-To: leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de > Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 09:37:28 +0200 (CEST) > From: Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> > Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > > > > If the following README sounds interesting to you, maybe we can > > > arrange to put a tar ball of it onto minnie? > > > > > > I also prepared postscript files of the V6-documentation. > > > Anyone interested? > > > > > > Yes, me in example :-). I wonder wether you could give them to dmr to be > > placed just at the side of the v7 docs, or wether you could put it > > into the archive? > > I asked Dennis, and he told me, the best place for those directories > is the minnie archive. So I'd like to put it there, but don't know how to. Well -- send a mail to warren k tomey (wkt@.... -- you'll find him in the mailing list). He has been building the archive and might tell you, how to transfer the files. Since PUPS-archive has an incoming directory, I think, it might be, that ftp-'put' to incoming will work. Warren or some other archive maintainer can pick it from there, and place it in the proper directories. Ask Warren. He is the one who should know. Regards -- Markus PS: Somehow I know your name. You haven't written a book by chance? Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA59510 for pups-liszt; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:00:17 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> Fri Apr 20 18:51:19 2001 Received: from Tempo.Update.UU.SE (root(a)Tempo.Update.UU.SE [130.238.19.17]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA59503 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:00:11 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from bqt(a)update.uu.se) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Tempo.Update.UU.SE (8.11.2/8.11.2/Update-Iltempogigante) with ESMTP id f3K8pKq08127; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:51:20 +0200 Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:51:19 +0200 (CEST) From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> To: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> cc: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Maximum PDP-11 executable size? In-Reply-To: <01042006262506.00527(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0104201049370.3728-100000(a)Tempo.Update.UU.SE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Fri, 20 Apr 2001, Edward Brocklesby wrote: > On Friday 20 April 2001 5:49 am, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > > Getting 32bit programs (and MH was done on a VAX or PDP10 (which is > > actually a 36 bit machine ;)) to run on a 16 bit machine is a lot of > > work. > > 36bit with 9bit bytes, iirc .. fun :> Actually, the PDP-10 have variable byte size. Anything from 1 to 36 bits. Lazy people went with 9 bit bytes, while size-aware people used 7 bit bytes. And then you have SIXBIT... /Department for worthless knowledge. :-) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA65073 for pups-liszt; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 05:02:46 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Tom Ivar Helbekkmo <tih(a)Hamartun.Priv.NO> Sat Apr 21 04:23:51 2001 Received: from uucp-relay.eunet.no (gasspedal.eunet.no [193.71.71.15]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA65069 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 05:02:41 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from tih(a)barsoom.Hamartun.Priv.NO) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by uucp-relay.eunet.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with UUCP id UAA97313; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 20:54:02 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from tih(a)barsoom.Hamartun.Priv.NO) Received: by barsoom.Hamartun.Priv.NO (Postfix, from userid 1001) id D4DED7201; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 20:23:52 +0200 (CEST) To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Maximum PDP-11 executable size? References: <200104200242.f3K2gsf23361(a)moe.2bsd.com> From: Tom Ivar Helbekkmo <tih(a)Hamartun.Priv.NO> Date: 20 Apr 2001 20:23:51 +0200 In-Reply-To: "Steven M. Schultz"'s message of "Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:42:54 -0700 (PDT)" Message-ID: <867l0f8m6g.fsf(a)barsoom.Hamartun.Priv.NO> User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> writes: > > Current Patch Level: 400 > > Date: January 24, 1998 > > Ouch - that is a bit old, there are updates thru 434 (I've 435 in > midstream but haven't had time to finish it). You mean 435/436: patch 435 was released on February 7th, 2001. :-) -tih -- Popularity is the hallmark of mediocrity. --Niles Crane, "Frasier"

24 years, 1 month

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[pups] Sigma RQD11s, ESDI, and other naughty words

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

A couple of weeks ago, I asked if anyone had any suggestions to help me convince a Sigma RQD11 Qbus-to-ESDI controller that it had disks attached. The trouble turned out to be pretty silly--the A-cable terminator in the disk I was testing with was in backwards--but later I discovered what may be a genuine controller botch that is worth reporting. Like most Qbus disk controllers, the RQD11 speaks the MSCP protocol to the host. More precisely it understands MSCP messages and uses UQSSP to transmit them; UQSSP is the transport protocol used by UNIBUS and Qbus controllers like the UDA50 and KDA50 and RQDX3 and TQK50 and so on. In general, the host sends commands like `bring drive online' or `read a block' to the controller, and the controller sends back response messages like `command succeeded' or `command failed.' (Never mind how the data part of the block is sent to memory for now.) The host sets up a ring of buffers for the controller to place messages in. Each buffer has an ownership flag: messages owned by the controller are available to hold new messages; messages owned by the host are not, usually because there's already a message there. When the controller has a message to send, it waits (if necessary) until it owns the next buffer in the ring (the ring is used in strict round-robin order); puts the message there; and sets the ownership flag to `host.' When the host has handled the message, or at least copied it elsewhere, it sets the flag back to `controller.' When the controller gives a message to host, it also generates an interrupt. There are several other reasons for generating an interrupt, so it is also supposed to set a single flag elsewhere in a communication area in host memory to mean `there are new messages.' My UQSSP driver code checked for new messages only if the flag was set, and that caused me grief; it turns out that, at least when the host is a MicroVAX III, the RQD11 sets the `new messages' flag inconsistently, or perhaps too late. Presumably it should have been set before requesting the interrupt, but empirically I can see that sometimes it gets set later. The effect was that the controller did what I told it, but my device driver never heard the acknowledgement that said it did. Obviously this makes I/O unreasonably slow. Fortunately there's a simple way around this: my driver's interrupt routine now peeks at the ownership flag for the buffer where the next message should appear. (Remember that the message buffers are used in strict order, so the host always knows exactly which buffer that is.) When I do that, all is well. I suspect that many existing UQSSP drivers already did what my code does now; in particular, the controllers and disks I am testing are known to have worked for many years with Ultrix, and while searching for data on the controller I came across various notes suggesting that the RQD11 works under NetBSD/VAX as well. But those who are writing new code or making changes to existing code should beware; the RQD11 appears to be breaking the rules (according to the old UQSSP manual I still have), and (as in many real-world protocol situations) if you write your code from the spec (as I did, in fact, albeit many years ago), the real world may trip it up. Norman Wilson

24 years, 1 month

1
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[pups] 2.11BSD system

by Edward Brocklesby

Hi all, The public access 2.11BSD system is finally back up, at styx.leguin.org.uk. You might find your account has been deleted, in which case just create a new one.. (for anyone who didn't see my original mail, styx is a public access 2.11bsd system on a pdp-11/70 that anyone can create an account on via telnet). -larne- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA36260 for pups-liszt; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 21:59:39 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Markus E Leypold <leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Tue Apr 17 21:51:14 2001 Received: from mx2.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (mx2.Informatik.Uni-Tuebingen.De [134.2.12.9]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA36256 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 21:59:33 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de) Received: from neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (neuromancer [134.2.12.58]) by mx2.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E41FE1062; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:51:13 +0200 (MST) Received: (from leypold@localhost) by neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (8.9.3/8.8.7) id LAA21885; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:51:14 GMT Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:51:14 GMT Message-Id: <200104171151.LAA21885(a)neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de: leypold set sender to leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de using -f From: Markus E Leypold <leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> To: helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au In-reply-to: <200104151708.f3FH8WS05058(a)RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> (message from Wolfgang Helbig on Sun, 15 Apr 2001 19:08:32 +0200 (CEST)) Subject: Re: [pups] V6 and Supnik-simulator References: <200104151708.f3FH8WS05058(a)RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > Delivered-To: leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de > Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 19:08:32 +0200 (CEST) > From: Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> > Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > > Hi, > > If the following README sounds interesting to you, maybe we can > arrange to put a tar ball of it onto minnie? > > I also prepared postscript files of the V6-documentation. > Anyone interested? Yes, me in example :-). I wonder wether you could give them to dmr to be placed just at the side of the v7 docs, or wether you could put it into the archive? Regards -- Markus > > Wolfgang > > First README: > UNIX V6 on the Supnik simulator: > -------------------------------- > This directory contains tape files for the Supnik simulator and > accompaning README files, which I produced when preparing an OS > course at the Berufsakademie. Further it contains C-sources of two > commands (enblock.c/deblock.c). These commands prepare a tapefile for the > simulator (enblock) and produce a plain file from a simulator > tapefile (deblock). > > The Supnik simulator can be obtained from: > ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Sims/Supnik_2.3/sources/ > I used the sim_2.3d.tar.gz tar ball. > > This directory contains a *.README and *.enb files with the following > basenames: > > ctable: A bug in the input table for the C-compiler code generator is fixed. > ctime: Some y2k related changes to V6. > dcheck: Bug fix and enhancement of dcheck. > dist: The V6 distribution tape: dist.README explains how to install > and setup UNIX-V6 with the simulator. The file dist.enb is missing > for copyright and space reasons, you have to prepare it yourself. > (see enb.README). > dotdot: Kernel enhancement: If in a root directoy of a mounted filesystem, > let ".." mean the parent of the mount point, not the root directory. > enb: Conventions and usage of .enb files. Explains how to > prepare tape files for the Supnik simulator and tells you > how to prepare the V6 distribution tape. > ludiv: Derivation of a double word unsigned division algorithm, which is used > in ctime. (no corresponding .enb) > man: The man command, which was missing from the distribution, and some > changes to make V6-nroff output readable on an xterm. > > So enb.README and dist.README are the next files you should read. > > If you have questions or find bugs or whatever, mail to > helbig(a)informatik.ba-stuttgart.de > > Last but not least I thankfully acknowledge the work of the people > who talked SCO into offering the ancient-UNIX source license, who collected > the old distribution tapes and run the PUPS Archive. And of course I thank > Bob Supnik for this great simulator! > > Second README: > This directory contains some documentation as found on the UNIX V6 > Distribution tape. The files were converted to postscript with > groff and the usage of the V6 ms-macro package. (See the print > shell script) > > Assembler: as.ps (*) > Beginners Guide: beg.ps (*) > C-Language Reference: c.ps (***) > C-Tutorial: ctut.ps (**) > ED-Tutorial: ed.ps (*) > Summary of UNIX: hel.ps (*) > Description of the C-IO-Library: iolib.ps () > Description of the kernel IO/Subsystem: iosys.ps (**) > Some thought about security: secur.ps (*) > Instruction how to install V6 from tape:start.ps (***) > Table of Contents of the Online Manual toc.ps (**) > Overview of UNIX (ACM-paper) unix.ps (***) > YACC - yet another compiler compiler yacc.ps () > > The more stars the more useful for the OS course. Two or more stars > indicate high recommended! > > >From the V7-distribution I included "A tour through the UNIX-C-Compiler" > (ctour.ps), which describes the internal workings of the said > compiler. The format and meaning of /usr/sources/c/table.s is > particular interesting reading if you want to learn about how a > compiler generates machine code. > > The shell script "print" can be used to format the *.ps files. > (on a contemporary UNIX system with groff) > > The file tmac.s contains V6-ms macros, which are used by some of > the doc files. > > Some of the V6 doc files needed to be adopted to groff to render > acceptable output. But the 25 year old troff sources were amazingly > compatible with groff. > Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA36286 for pups-liszt; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:02:15 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Markus E Leypold <leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Tue Apr 17 21:53:23 2001 Received: from mx2.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (mx2.Informatik.Uni-Tuebingen.De [134.2.12.9]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA36282 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:02:12 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de) Received: from neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (neuromancer [134.2.12.58]) by mx2.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 569111062; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 13:53:23 +0200 (MST) Received: (from leypold@localhost) by neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de (8.9.3/8.8.7) id LAA21888; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:53:23 GMT Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:53:23 GMT Message-Id: <200104171153.LAA21888(a)neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> X-Authentication-Warning: neuromancer.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de: leypold set sender to leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de using -f From: Markus E Leypold <leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> To: iking(a)microsoft.com Cc: helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE, kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au In-reply-to: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D23D(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> (iking(a)microsoft.com) Subject: Re: [pups] Ken_Welsch_v6 and Dennis_v6 References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D23D(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > Delivered-To: leypold(a)informatik.uni-tuebingen.de > Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message > Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 08:34:09 -0700 > Thread-Topic: [pups] Ken_Welsch_v6 and Dennis_v6 > Thread-Index: AcDFGASz18jwJYwtTZmjFncUfGcq0gBccMBw > From: "Ian King" <iking(a)microsoft.com> > Cc: <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> > Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > > All, > > Yes, I saw the "rights" declaration (with a non-zero switch register) on > a real machine (PDP-11/34a with programmer's panel), when I booted Ken's > v6 distribution in single-user mode (there is a specific value you enter > into the register, 173030, as documented in bproc.8; does anyone know > why this value was used?). > > I'm not sure why, but I was never able to get Dennis' distribution to > boot in the emulator; as a result, I didn't take the time to copy it As far as I remember I had the same problem. The bootsector I think is simply empty (god knows why). I took the bs from another disk -- and everything was fine. Regards -- Markus > over to an RK05 (using Warren's excellent tools) to boot on the 11/34. > Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA37877 for pups-liszt; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 02:15:20 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Wed Apr 18 02:06:34 2001 Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (pc62-oxf1.cable.ntl.com [62.254.132.62]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA37873 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 02:15:15 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from ejb(a)leguin.org.uk) Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (klamath [127.0.0.1]) by klamath.leguin.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id QAA22914 for <pups(a)minnie.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:06:35 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: klamath.leguin.org.uk: Host klamath [127.0.0.1] claimed to be klamath.leguin.org.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Organization: Leguin Network Services To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: [pups] very strange problems with 2.11BSD tcp/ip stack Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 16:06:34 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0104171606340L.00508(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk hi, I've been using the 2.11BSD tcp/ip stack fine for weeks, but now, just when we move it to a new host, its been very flaky.. I'm not sure if it's a problem with the configuration of the emulator host system, or the TCP stack itself. the problem seems to be with packets arriving and being processed out of order.. I get this from a ping: PING 62.242.39.162 (62.242.39.162): 56 data bytes 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=2 ttl=255 time=14.427 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=3 ttl=255 time=24.571 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=0 ttl=255 time=3194.977 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=1 ttl=255 time=2207.308 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=12 ttl=255 time=14.602 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=13 ttl=255 time=24.598 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=14 ttl=255 time=14.612 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=15 ttl=255 time=24.571 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=16 ttl=255 time=14.614 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=4 ttl=255 time=12156.845 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=5 ttl=255 time=11166.777 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=6 ttl=255 time=10176.688 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=7 ttl=255 time=9186.604 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=8 ttl=255 time=8197.344 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=9 ttl=255 time=7206.744 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=10 ttl=255 time=6216.641 ms 64 bytes from 62.242.39.162: icmp_seq=11 ttl=255 time=5226.532 ms but the box i'm pinging from is the host system where the emulator is located.. so there isn't any possible network problem. The configuration is, tap0 has the IP 62.242.39.161 on the host, and the pdp-11 has 62.242.39.162, with netmask 0xfffffff8. Nothing else special has been done on either side. on the host, we have this: freeze% ifconfig xl0 xl0: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1500 inet 195.249.6.94 netmask 0xfffffff8 broadcast 195.249.6.95 inet6 fe80::260:97ff:fe7d:74ac%xl0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0x1 ether 00:60:97:7d:74:ac media: 100baseTX <full-duplex> status: active supported media: autoselect 100baseTX <full-duplex> 100baseTX 10baseT/UTP <full-duplex> 10baseT/UTP 100baseTX <hw-loopback> freeze% ifconfig tap0 tap0: flags=8843<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING,SIMPLEX,MULTICAST> mtu 1532 inet6 fe80::260:97ff:fe7d:74ac%tap0 prefixlen 64 scopeid 0xb inet 62.242.39.161 netmask 0xfffffffc broadcast 62.242.39.163 ether 00:bd:e7:e0:cc:00 Opened by PID 31257 freeze% netstat -rn Routing tables Internet: Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Netif Expire default 195.249.6.90 UGSc 2 8355 xl0 62.242.39.160/30 link#11 UC 0 0 tap0 => 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 UH 2 15389 lo0 195.249.6.88/29 link#1 UC 0 0 xl0 => and on the pdp-11: styx% ifconfig qe0 qe0: flags=63<UP,BROADCAST,NOTRAILERS,RUNNING> inet 62.242.39.162 netmask fffffffc broadcast 62.242.39.163 styx% netstat -rn Routing tables Destination Gateway Flags Refs Use Interface 127.0.0.1 127.0.0.1 UH 0 0 lo0 62.242.39.162 127.0.0.1 UH 0 0 lo0 default 62.242.39.161 UG 1 3551 qe0 62.242.39.160 62.242.39.162 U 1 321 qe0 If someone could shed some light on this problem, it'd be much appreciated.. -larne-

24 years, 1 month

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Re: [pups] very strange problems with 2.11BSD tcp/ip stack

by jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de

On 17 Apr, Edward Brocklesby wrote: > I've been using the 2.11BSD tcp/ip stack fine for weeks, but now, just when > we move it to a new host, its been very flaky.. [...] > the problem seems to be with packets arriving and being processed out of > order.. I had exactely the same problem on my 11/73 with a DELQA running 2.11BSD. I noticed this after I reconfigured the qe0 interface and the routes while the system was up and running. It disapeared after I had to powercycle the machine for other reasons. -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA40135 for pups-liszt; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:30:41 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Wed Apr 18 08:21:47 2001 Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (pc62-oxf1.cable.ntl.com [62.254.132.62]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA40123 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:30:36 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from ejb(a)leguin.org.uk) Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (klamath [127.0.0.1]) by klamath.leguin.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id WAA25491; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:21:49 GMT X-Authentication-Warning: klamath.leguin.org.uk: Host klamath [127.0.0.1] claimed to be klamath.leguin.org.uk Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Organization: Leguin Network Services To: jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Subject: Re: [pups] very strange problems with 2.11BSD tcp/ip stack Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 22:21:47 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au References: <200104172132.XAA27697(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> In-Reply-To: <200104172132.XAA27697(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <0104172221470N.00508(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Tuesday 17 April 2001 9:32 pm, jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de wrote: > I had exactely the same problem on my 11/73 with a DELQA running > 2.11BSD. I noticed this after I reconfigured the qe0 interface and the > routes while the system was up and running. It disapeared after I had > to powercycle the machine for other reasons. Yeah, that's probably the problem.. I was fiddling with the routes (changing the IP and subnet) just before it started.. after a reboot it seems fine. -larne-

24 years, 1 month

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RE: [pups] Ken_Welsch_v6 and Dennis_v6

by Ian King

All, Yes, I saw the "rights" declaration (with a non-zero switch register) on a real machine (PDP-11/34a with programmer's panel), when I booted Ken's v6 distribution in single-user mode (there is a specific value you enter into the register, 173030, as documented in bproc.8; does anyone know why this value was used?). I'm not sure why, but I was never able to get Dennis' distribution to boot in the emulator; as a result, I didn't take the time to copy it over to an RK05 (using Warren's excellent tools) to boot on the 11/34. -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Wolfgang Helbig [mailto:helbig@Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE] Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 11:49 AM To: helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE; kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Ken_Welsch_v6 and Dennis_v6 > I always wondered why when booting the image it did not print the > notice so often displayed with V6. I've not looked at the physical > tape this image was pulled from in many years, but I cannot imagine > the fine folks at the University of Waterloo (where I worked for many > years) would have changed anything. So I would gather from your > detective work that based on dates, this tape just predates that > provided by Dennis Richie by such a short time? I do know No, the other way round: The tape you provided is from October 10th and the disk image provided by Dennis is from July 18th. The "RESTRICED RIGHT"- remark was put into the kernel on October 10th. It is on the tape that you provided, it is not on the disk image from Dennis. But the source code from the Lions book shows this remark as well. I don't know who changed main.c on October 10th 1975 (I lived in Israel at that time) You see the remark only if you set the switch register on the PDP-11 to a nonzero value befor booting. I installed V6 from the tape following the setup instructions. With the Supnik simulator, enter sim > d sr 1 sim > boot rk0 @rkunix And it will print your rights! Wolfgang

24 years, 1 month

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[pups] V6 and Supnik-simulator

by Wolfgang Helbig

Hi, If the following README sounds interesting to you, maybe we can arrange to put a tar ball of it onto minnie? I also prepared postscript files of the V6-documentation. Anyone interested? Wolfgang First README: UNIX V6 on the Supnik simulator: -------------------------------- This directory contains tape files for the Supnik simulator and accompaning README files, which I produced when preparing an OS course at the Berufsakademie. Further it contains C-sources of two commands (enblock.c/deblock.c). These commands prepare a tapefile for the simulator (enblock) and produce a plain file from a simulator tapefile (deblock). The Supnik simulator can be obtained from: ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Sims/Supnik_2.3/sources/ I used the sim_2.3d.tar.gz tar ball. This directory contains a *.README and *.enb files with the following basenames: ctable: A bug in the input table for the C-compiler code generator is fixed. ctime: Some y2k related changes to V6. dcheck: Bug fix and enhancement of dcheck. dist: The V6 distribution tape: dist.README explains how to install and setup UNIX-V6 with the simulator. The file dist.enb is missing for copyright and space reasons, you have to prepare it yourself. (see enb.README). dotdot: Kernel enhancement: If in a root directoy of a mounted filesystem, let ".." mean the parent of the mount point, not the root directory. enb: Conventions and usage of .enb files. Explains how to prepare tape files for the Supnik simulator and tells you how to prepare the V6 distribution tape. ludiv: Derivation of a double word unsigned division algorithm, which is used in ctime. (no corresponding .enb) man: The man command, which was missing from the distribution, and some changes to make V6-nroff output readable on an xterm. So enb.README and dist.README are the next files you should read. If you have questions or find bugs or whatever, mail to helbig(a)informatik.ba-stuttgart.de Last but not least I thankfully acknowledge the work of the people who talked SCO into offering the ancient-UNIX source license, who collected the old distribution tapes and run the PUPS Archive. And of course I thank Bob Supnik for this great simulator! Second README: This directory contains some documentation as found on the UNIX V6 Distribution tape. The files were converted to postscript with groff and the usage of the V6 ms-macro package. (See the print shell script) Assembler: as.ps (*) Beginners Guide: beg.ps (*) C-Language Reference: c.ps (***) C-Tutorial: ctut.ps (**) ED-Tutorial: ed.ps (*) Summary of UNIX: hel.ps (*) Description of the C-IO-Library: iolib.ps () Description of the kernel IO/Subsystem: iosys.ps (**) Some thought about security: secur.ps (*) Instruction how to install V6 from tape:start.ps (***) Table of Contents of the Online Manual toc.ps (**) Overview of UNIX (ACM-paper) unix.ps (***) YACC - yet another compiler compiler yacc.ps () The more stars the more useful for the OS course. Two or more stars indicate high recommended! >From the V7-distribution I included "A tour through the UNIX-C-Compiler" (ctour.ps), which describes the internal workings of the said compiler. The format and meaning of /usr/sources/c/table.s is particular interesting reading if you want to learn about how a compiler generates machine code. The shell script "print" can be used to format the *.ps files. (on a contemporary UNIX system with groff) The file tmac.s contains V6-ms macros, which are used by some of the doc files. Some of the V6 doc files needed to be adopted to groff to render acceptable output. But the 25 year old troff sources were amazingly compatible with groff.

24 years, 1 month

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[pups] Ken_Welsch_v6 and Dennis_v6

by Wolfgang Helbig

Hi, I'm referring to the Ken_Welsch_v6 description in http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS/Archive/PDP-11/Distributions/DETAILS The Ken Welsch tape differs from the Dennis disks only in the "RESTRICTED RIGHTS"- statement that was put into /usr/sys/ken/main.c on October 10th 1975 EDT. The binaries that depend on this change, were rebuilt (usr/sys/lib1 and the kernels in /) and thus show the same modification date. All other files from the Ken Welsch tape bear a timestamp between May 14th 1975 and July 18th 1975. After installation from the Ken Welsch tape onto a (simulated) RK-disk the date(1) command displays: October 10 12:29:51 EDT 1975 (which in Australia is October 11th. That might explain, why the dates given in the DETAILS file are off by one) Wolfgang Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA16087 for pups-liszt; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 01:46:27 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Sun Apr 15 01:38:20 2001 Received: from mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (mailhost.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.1]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA16083 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 01:46:23 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from bill(a)cs.uofs.edu) Received: from triangle.cs.uofs.edu (IDENT:root@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.172.101]) by mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA20966 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 11:39:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (bill@localhost) by triangle.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id LAA21339 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 11:38:20 -0400 X-Authentication-Warning: triangle.cs.uofs.edu: bill owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 11:38:20 -0400 (EDT) From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> To: PUPS Mailing List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] PDP-11/24 -- BA11-A help needed Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10104141137380.20429-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Is there anyone here with experience working on a PDP-11/24 in a BA11-A box?? I am trying to more mine from a broken BA11-L to a working BA11-A and I need some help with where one of the cables from the control panel goes. Anyone?? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA16635 for pups-liszt; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 03:14:08 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Sun Apr 15 03:05:49 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA16631 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 03:14:02 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f3EH5na24517; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 13:05:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <3AD8836D.C674C657(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 13:05:49 -0400 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.38 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Ken_Welsch_v6 and Dennis_v6 References: <200104141501.f3EF1jO03450(a)RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I always wondered why when booting the image it did not print the notice so often displayed with V6. I've not looked at the physical tape this image was pulled from in many years, but I cannot imagine the fine folks at the University of Waterloo (where I worked for many years) would have changed anything. So I would gather from your detective work that based on dates, this tape just predates that provided by Dennis Richie by such a short time? I do know that the physical paper label on the tape was hand written. Not the typed sort I expected with any sort of (c) notice or anything. -- Ken Wolfgang Helbig wrote: > > Hi, > > I'm referring to the Ken_Welsch_v6 description in > http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS/Archive/PDP-11/Distributions/DETAILS > > The Ken Welsch tape differs from the Dennis disks only in the "RESTRICTED RIGHTS"- > statement that was put into /usr/sys/ken/main.c on October 10th 1975 EDT. > The binaries that depend on this change, were rebuilt (usr/sys/lib1 and the > kernels in /) and thus show the same modification date. > > All other files from the Ken Welsch tape bear a timestamp between May 14th 1975 > and July 18th 1975. > > After installation from the Ken Welsch tape onto a (simulated) RK-disk > the date(1) command displays: > October 10 12:29:51 EDT 1975 > (which in Australia is October 11th. That might explain, why the > dates given in the DETAILS file are off by one) > > Wolfgang Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA17130 for pups-liszt; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 04:53:12 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> Sun Apr 15 04:48:45 2001 Received: from RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (isdn365.s.netic.de [212.9.163.109]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA17126 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 04:53:08 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE) Received: (from helbig@localhost) by RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f3EImj703621; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 20:48:45 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 20:48:45 +0200 (CEST) From: Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> Message-Id: <200104141848.f3EImj703621(a)RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> To: helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE, kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com Subject: Re: [pups] Ken_Welsch_v6 and Dennis_v6 Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > I always wondered why when booting the image it did not print the > notice so often displayed with V6. I've not looked at the physical > tape this image was pulled from in many years, but I cannot imagine > the fine folks at the University of Waterloo (where I worked for > many years) would have changed anything. So I would gather from > your detective work that based on dates, this tape just predates > that provided by Dennis Richie by such a short time? I do know No, the other way round: The tape you provided is from October 10th and the disk image provided by Dennis is from July 18th. The "RESTRICED RIGHT"- remark was put into the kernel on October 10th. It is on the tape that you provided, it is not on the disk image from Dennis. But the source code from the Lions book shows this remark as well. I don't know who changed main.c on October 10th 1975 (I lived in Israel at that time) You see the remark only if you set the switch register on the PDP-11 to a nonzero value befor booting. I installed V6 from the tape following the setup instructions. With the Supnik simulator, enter sim > d sr 1 sim > boot rk0 @rkunix And it will print your rights! Wolfgang

24 years, 1 month

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[pups] Sigma RDQ11-EC, ESDI disk wisdom needed

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

I am trying to get a Sigma RQD11-EC ESDI disk controller and Fujitsu M2261E disk to work in a MicroVAX III, and am stumped. I am quite sure the current problem would show up in a Qbus PDP-11 as well, so I thought I'd ask here. Those who don't recognize the devices will probably find it boring to read on, but for the sake of politeness, the RQD11-EC is a four-drive Qbus ESDI disk controller that speaks MSCP to the host computer, and the M2261E is a 320MB full-height 5.25-inch ESDI disk drive. I picked them both up (actually two of each) just short of someone's dumpster a couple of years ago, but this is the first time I have tried to use them. It was believed that they were working when last powered up, which was several years before they came to me. They didn't come with documentation. I hope to get a copy of the controller manual from a geographically-distant friend, who has already e-mailed me a list of switch settings and some other key facts. www.pc-disk.de has a spec-and-jumpers sheet for the disk. In a sentence, the trouble is that the controller cannot see the disk. In more detail: The RQD11 is configured at address 0160354 (I am testing in a system that also has an RQDX3 at the standard address which I don't want to disturb); bootstrap disabled; CPU type LSI-11 (the only other choice is `none'); interrupts at BR4. Except the address, these are the same settings the board had when it was last in use. There are many disk jumpers. Among the settings are: drive select 1; daisy-chain style signal gating; 590 bytes per sector, hard-sectored; ATTN not set to READY at power-up. Again these are believed to be the settings when the drive was last used. The A (wide) cable runs from the A connector on the disk to J5 (the only 34-pin connector) on the controller. The drive has a terminator DIP in place. The B (narrow) cable runs from the B connector on the disk to J1 on the controller. The cables I am using happen to be missing the keys normally found at the drive end; I have tried all four possible cable orientations to no avail. When fed power, the disk spins up and calibrates (the rattling head-dance I'm familiar with from other Fuji disks of similar vintage). At no point have I seen any fault LEDs lit. The READY LED on the front of the disk comes on after calibration, and stays on. The RQD11's CSR responds as it should on the Qbus, and the sequence that is supposed to open communications with WOMBAT (the firmware command interpreter) works fine: >>>d/p/w 20001f40 20 >>>d/l 20088008 80000002 >>>d/w 200000ec ac >>>s 400 RQD11-EC WOMBAT Version: 2.38 Drive number: According to my friend with the manual, before the drive number prompt the firmware should list all the drives it sees, but I have yet to see it list anything. If I give it a drive number between 0 and 7, it reports `no drv'; any other number yields `Illegal drive number'. I have tried various experiments, including - using J3 instead of J1 for the B cable - different drive-select lines - changing CHN7 15-16 to `set ATTN at power-up' each with all four possible cable orientations. As I say, I'm stumped. Anybody got any suggestions? Is there anything I can do to get better diagnostic information out of either the disk or the controller? Thanks much for any advice, Norman Wilson

24 years, 1 month

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Re: [pups] Ancient Unix licenses? (fwd)

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Apr 5, 10:04, Warren Toomey wrote: > All, > I've received this e-mail from a student at NYU Law Department. > If any of you have copies of old Unix licenses, and your organisation > would be prepared to release copies to Greg, could you contact him. > > Also, if you could send me copies of your licenses, that would be > great too. About 8 people have already done this, and I am happy to > act as a repository for this old information. Warren, do you still have copies of mine, or do you want another set? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA37756 for pups-liszt; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 22:50:22 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Thu Apr 5 22:42:53 2001 Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (pc250-oxf1.cable.ntl.com [62.254.132.250]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA37752 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 22:50:18 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from ejb(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by klamath.leguin.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id MAA27857 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 12:42:59 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Organization: Leguin Network Services To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: [pups] Public access 2.11BSD system Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 12:42:53 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01040512425302.26560(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi all, I've set up a free public 2.11BSD system, for anyone who wants to try it.. To create an account, just telnet to klamath.ddts.net. I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but it seems appropriate :> -larne- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA40397 for pups-liszt; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 06:44:44 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Ian King" <iking(a)microsoft.com> Fri Apr 6 06:36:56 2001 Received: from mail4.microsoft.com (mail4.microsoft.com [131.107.3.122]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA40393 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 06:44:40 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail4.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 05 Apr 2001 12:36:57 -0700 (Pacific Daylight Time) Received: from red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.12.71]) by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.2883); Thu, 5 Apr 2001 13:36:57 -0700 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.4418.65 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: [pups] LP on Unix 6th Ed? Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 13:36:56 -0700 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D22F(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: LP on Unix 6th Ed? Thread-Index: AcC+EBtLbH33w5TmTniAo/EfTbQpZQ== From: "Ian King" <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Apr 2001 20:36:57.0563 (UTC) FILETIME=[288FA2B0:01C0BE10] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au id GAA40394 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I've been scratching my head over how to set up the printer in 6th Edition UNIX. Any hints? I tried mknod'ing /dev/lp with a variety of major device numbers and then redirecting ls to it, with no success. The printer interface is at the "usual" address on my PDP-11/34, and works under another OS. w TIA -- Ian Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA41188 for pups-liszt; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 09:28:21 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Fri Apr 6 09:21:03 2001 Received: from psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au [129.78.83.26]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA41184 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 09:28:19 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from johnh(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from johnh@localhost) by psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id JAA28539 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 09:21:03 +1000 (EST) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 09:21:03 +1000 (EST) From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Message-Id: <200104052321.JAA28539(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] LP on Unix 6th Ed? Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk The lp driver usually had a major device number of 2, so 'mknod /dev/lp c 2 0' should work, but the kernel may not have been built to support line printers. Check in /usr/sys/conf/c.c for an entry in the 'cdevsw' table for the 'lp' entries (and the major device position). If there are null entries, either edit c.c, compile it and relink the kernel, or edit the 'run' script in /usr/sys/conf/ and add 'lp' after the 'mkconf' (but before the 'done') and run the script to rebuilt the kernel. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA42567 for pups-liszt; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:19:22 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Cyrille Lefevre <clefevre-lists(a)noos.fr> Fri Apr 6 14:11:56 2001 Received: from mail.noos.fr (verlaine.noos.net [212.198.2.73]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA42563 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 14:19:18 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from clefevre(a)poboxes.com) Received: (qmail 2474546 invoked by uid 0); 6 Apr 2001 04:12:01 -0000 Received: from d165.dhcp212-198-231.noos.fr (HELO gits.dyndns.org) ([212.198.231.165]) (envelope-sender <clefevre(a)poboxes.com>) by verlaine.noos.net (qmail-ldap-1.03) with DES-CBC3-SHA encrypted SMTP for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; 6 Apr 2001 04:12:01 -0000 Received: (from root@localhost) by gits.dyndns.org (8.11.3/8.11.3) id f364BvC75545; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 06:11:57 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from clefevre(a)poboxes.com) To: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Public access 2.11BSD system References: <01040512425302.26560(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> X-Face: V|+c;4!|B?E%BE^{E6);aI.[<<r#uCVjK"~Ke!(a)0vxS/.,wki/c|uVnNV!BA-_gY2sfoGc3 f{#/$PT>97Zd*>^#%Y5Cxv;%Y[PT-LW3;A:fRrJ8+^k"e7@+30g0YD0*^^3jgyShN7o?a]C la*Zv'5NA,=963bM%J^o]C Reply-To: Cyrille Lefevre <clefevre(a)poboxes.com> In-Reply-To: <01040512425302.26560(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> Mail-Copies-To: never Original-Sender: clefevre-lists(a)noos.fr From: Cyrille Lefevre <clefevre-lists(a)noos.fr> Date: 06 Apr 2001 06:11:56 +0200 Message-ID: <zodull9v.fsf(a)gits.dyndns.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) XEmacs/21.1 (Cuyahoga Valley) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> writes: > I've set up a free public 2.11BSD system, for anyone who wants to try it.. > To create an account, just telnet to klamath.ddts.net. would be interresting, but : # telnet klamath.ddts.net Trying 62.254.132.250... telnet: connect to address 62.254.132.250: No route to host my ip address is gits.dyndns.org (currently 212.198.231.165) and I live in france. are there any restrictions anywhere or the machine is down ? Cyrille. -- home: mailto:clefevre@poboxes.com UNIX is user-friendly; it's just particular work: mailto:Cyrille.Lefevre@edf.fr about who it chooses to be friends with. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA43967 for pups-liszt; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 20:07:12 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Fri Apr 6 19:59:33 2001 Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (pc250-oxf1.cable.ntl.com [62.254.132.250]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA43963 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 20:07:07 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from ejb(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by klamath.leguin.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id JAA03188 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 09:59:36 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Organization: Leguin Network Services To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: [pups] STYX and 2.11BSD licensing Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 09:59:33 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01040609593307.26560(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi all. A couple of things.. First, sorry to post about this again so soon, but styx is moving to a new location, so any accounts created from now on will be removed later today when it's moved. Second, where do I stand on /usr/src/ permissions? Can I allow read access to it, or is that effectively distributing 2.11BSD source, against SCO's license? Is there any way to verify who has obtained a license, and add them to a src group? Thanks, -larne- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA48500 for pups-liszt; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 03:50:14 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Lars J. Buitinck" <lars(a)fwn.rug.nl> Sat Apr 7 03:45:31 2001 Received: from smtp.hccnet.nl (smtp.hccnet.nl [62.251.0.13]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA48496 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 03:50:09 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from lars(a)fwn.rug.nl) Received: from fwn.rug.nl by smtp.hccnet.nl via uds198-43.dial.hccnet.nl [62.251.43.198] with ESMTP for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> id TAA18614 (8.8.5/1.13); Fri, 6 Apr 2001 19:42:46 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <3ACE00BB.FE5D18F8(a)fwn.rug.nl> Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 19:45:31 +0200 From: "Lars J. Buitinck" <lars(a)fwn.rug.nl> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: nl,nl-BE,en,en-US,en-GB,af,de-DE,de-AT,de-CH,fr,fr-FR,fr-BE,fr-CA MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] STYX and 2.11BSD licensing References: <01040609593307.26560(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Couple of suggestions: 1. Make a user account that automatically replies to email by sending a user a copy of the SCO license and an automatically generated code, which the user should then send back to be added to the src group. I could write a program for you. 2. Make a program that checks whether a user is in the src group, if not displays the SCO license, asks if the user accepts the license, if so adds the user to the src group. Problem is that this program should be SUID... I'll start working on the first suggested program rightaway. Don't have much else to do anyway ;-) Edward Brocklesby wrote: > > Hi all. > > A couple of things.. > > First, sorry to post about this again so soon, but styx is moving to a new > location, so any accounts created from now on will be removed later today > when it's moved. > > Second, where do I stand on /usr/src/ permissions? Can I allow read access > to it, or is that effectively distributing 2.11BSD source, against SCO's > license? Is there any way to verify who has obtained a license, and add them > to a src group? > > Thanks, > -larne- -- If I traveled to the end of the rainbow As Dame Fortune did intend, Murphy would be there to tell me The pot's at the other end. -- Bert Whitney Lars J. Buitinck Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA49251 for pups-liszt; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 06:03:13 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> Sat Apr 7 05:59:11 2001 Received: from RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (isdn296.s.netic.de [212.9.163.40]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA49247 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 06:03:08 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE) Received: (from helbig@localhost) by RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f36JxBq18211 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 21:59:11 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 21:59:11 +0200 (CEST) From: Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> Message-Id: <200104061959.f36JxBq18211(a)RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: [pups] Enhancement of SIMH-V2.5a Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi, As the subject says, I enhanced the PDP-11 simulator from Robert Supnik(V2.5a). Please tell me, if the README sounds interesting to you. In that case, maybe we could arrange to put the tar ball on one of minnie's disks. Wolfgang Here is the README: MAR-13-01 This directory contains Robert Supnik's simulator controller V2.5a together with the PDP-11 simulator. I modified the PDP-11 simulator. The other simulators from the original V2.5a distribution are not included in this directory. The details: Physical Addresses ------------------ The deposit and examine commands treated physical addresses as 22 bit addresses, even if the CPU was set to 18 bit addresses. Thus, the I/O page was addressed from 17760000 to 17777776. I changed this. Now, if the CPU is set to 18 bit, the I/O page is addressed from 760000 to 770000. Three additional KL11 terminal devices: --------------------------------------- KL11 File Input (KLI0, KLI1, KLI2): The KL11 file input (KLIx) units read from an attached file. They implement the same registers as the KL11 terminal input (TTI). (cf. 5.2.3 in simh_doc.txt) KL11 File Output (KLO0, KLO1, KLO2) The KL11 file output (KLOx) units append to an attached file. They implement the same registers as the KL11 terminal output unit (TTI). (cf. 5.2.4 in simh_doc.txt) The added program ASR supplies a (host)-terminal interface to the KLI/O attached files. ASR is invoked as asr kli klo . It polls the host terminal (stdin) and appends the polled bytes to the file kli. Furthermore it polls the file klo and copies the polled bytes to the host terminal (stdout). To quit asr, enter ^E. To build asr, enter: cc asr.c scp_tty.c cp a.out asr Building the pdp11-simulator: The source code is in pdp11_kl.c. So the installation instructions in simh_doc.txt apply. Both asr and pdp11_kl.c is only tested on NetBSD 1.5. It hopefully works on other UNIX-like host operating systems as well. Example of who to to connect the file-I/O KL-devices and asr: Start the simulator. Attach the file kli to KLI0 and the file klo to KLO0. Enter asr kli klo from another host terminal. Now, whatever you type, goes to KLI0, and whatever is written by KLO0 is typed onto your terminal. Device numbers of the terminal devices in PDP11-UNIX V6: UNIT major/minor number TTI/TTO 0/0 (/dev/tty8, the console) KLI0/KLO0 0/1 KLI1/KLO1 0/2 KLI2/KLO2 0/3 Synchronization of the line clock to the host clock: --------------------------------------------------- "SYNC" is an add-on to the PDP-11 line clock device. It tries to synchronize the Line-time Clock (CLK, cf. 5.2.6 in simh_doc.txt) with the host time. It only works if the unsynchronized CLK runs too fast. On every tick of CLK, the simulator then sleeps until a total of 1/60 seconds elapsed from the last tick. Synchronization slows down the simulator and reduces the load of the CPU. It is turned on automatically through activation of the CLK device. The clock device is activated through a RESET. You can turn off synchronization by depositing '1' into the newly added "SYNCH"-register of the CLK-unit. To turn on synchronizing, deposit '0' into it. If synchronizing is active, the SYNCH-register shows the host time (number of seconds elapsed since Jan 1 1970 UTC). Have fun, Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)ba-stuttgart.de> Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA49442 for pups-liszt; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 06:55:26 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Sat Apr 7 06:47:57 2001 Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (pc250-oxf1.cable.ntl.com [62.254.132.250]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA49438 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 06:55:18 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from ejb(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by klamath.leguin.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id UAA00618 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 20:47:58 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Organization: Leguin Network Services To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] STYX and 2.11BSD licensing Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 20:47:57 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <01040609593307.26560(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> <3ACE00BB.FE5D18F8(a)fwn.rug.nl> In-Reply-To: <3ACE00BB.FE5D18F8(a)fwn.rug.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01040620475700.00557(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Friday 06 April 2001 5:45 pm, Lars J. Buitinck wrote: > Couple of suggestions: > > 1. Make a user account that automatically replies to email by sending a > user a copy of the SCO license and an automatically generated code, > which the user should then send back to be added to the src group. I > could write a program for you. Hmm, yes.. would it just ask them to accept the license, or direct them to SCO's site, and get them to send back SCO's license code? I'm really not sure of the legal issues surrounding this (or even how much it matters, now that it only takes 5 minutes to obtain a license..) > 2. Make a program that checks whether a user is in the src group, if > not displays the SCO license, asks if the user accepts the license, if > so adds the user to the src group. Problem is that this program should > be SUID... Locking the group file and securely updating it shouldn't be *too* hard, but yes, I'd prefer not to have many setuid programs around (I've already done a small audit of the code and fixed a couple of security bugs, and removed setuid bits from as many programs as possible.. I really wouldn't want someone to have root on it, simply because it would allow them to take any IP address on the host's network). > I'll start working on the first suggested program rightaway. Don't have > much else to do anyway ;-) cheers :> -larne- PS- styx is down right now, it's getting it's own (100% dedicated :) box, hosted at tele.dk.. this should be setup over the weekend, then it'll be up and running again. Also, if anyone wants my INET_RESTRICT kernel patch (which only allows users in INET_GROUP to call connect()) for 2.11BSD, I can put it online somewhere (although it's really not that difficult to implement). Also if 2.11BSD is still being maintained, the setproctitle() vulnerability recently discovered in 4BSD derived ftpd is still present (trivial fix - change setproctitle(title) to setproctitle("%s", title)). I'm still going through various 4BSD code security problems to determine which are present in 2BSD. And lastly, if anyone wants source to the newuser program I used, I can put that online too. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA50238 for pups-liszt; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 09:45:06 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Sat Apr 7 09:24:19 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA50234 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 09:45:00 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f36NOJs03847 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 16:24:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 16:24:19 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200104062324.f36NOJs03847(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] STYX and 2.11BSD licensing Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi -- > From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> > (although it's really not that difficult to implement). Also if 2.11BSD is > still being maintained, the setproctitle() vulnerability recently discovered > in 4BSD derived ftpd is still present (trivial fix - change > setproctitle(title) to setproctitle("%s", title)). I'm still going through 2.11's still maintained - I've been busy (and a bit "burned out") and haven't fired up the 11/73 as much as I should have or used to. So many projects, so little time ... Sounds like it's time to at least get the FTPD bug fixed though ;) Steven Schultz sms(a)to.gd-es.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA53356 for pups-liszt; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 21:33:01 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Lars J. Buitinck" <lars(a)fwn.rug.nl> Sat Apr 7 21:28:07 2001 Received: from smtp.hccnet.nl (smtp.hccnet.nl [62.251.0.13]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA53352 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 21:32:56 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from lars(a)fwn.rug.nl) Received: from fwn.rug.nl by smtp.hccnet.nl via uds148-43.dial.hccnet.nl [62.251.43.148] with ESMTP id NAA14473 (8.8.5/1.13); Sat, 7 Apr 2001 13:25:24 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <3ACEF9C7.20A1328E(a)fwn.rug.nl> Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 13:28:07 +0200 From: "Lars J. Buitinck" <lars(a)fwn.rug.nl> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: nl,nl-BE,en,en-US,en-GB,af,de-DE,de-AT,de-CH,fr,fr-FR,fr-BE,fr-CA MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] STYX and 2.11BSD licensing References: <01040609593307.26560(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> <3ACE00BB.FE5D18F8(a)fwn.rug.nl> <01040620475700.00557(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Edward Brocklesby wrote: > > Hmm, yes.. would it just ask them to accept the license, or direct them to > SCO's site, and get them to send back SCO's license code? I'm really not > sure of the legal issues surrounding this (or even how much it matters, > now that it only takes 5 minutes to obtain a license..) Less than 5 minutes. I don't know when you got your license, but they don't even give a code anymore - they just show the license, let you click "ACCEPT" and you're in their archive. Just show 'em the license. > Locking the group file and securely updating it shouldn't be *too* hard, but > yes, I'd prefer not to have many setuid programs around (I've already done > a small audit of the code and fixed a couple of security bugs, and removed > setuid bits from as many programs as possible.. I really wouldn't want someone > to have root on it, simply because it would allow them to take any IP address > on the host's network). And I don't feel like being responsible for anything bad that happens to your box by a bug in MFSRP - My First SUID Root Program :-) -- If I traveled to the end of the rainbow As Dame Fortune did intend, Murphy would be there to tell me The pot's at the other end. -- Bert Whitney Lars J. Buitinck Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA53804 for pups-liszt; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 23:10:51 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Sat Apr 7 23:02:58 2001 Received: from klamath.leguin.org.uk (pc174-oxf1.cable.ntl.com [62.254.132.174]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA53800 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 23:10:40 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from ejb(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk) Received: from localhost (localhost [[UNIX: localhost]]) by klamath.leguin.org.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) id NAA00870; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 13:02:59 GMT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> Organization: Leguin Network Services To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] STYX and 2.11BSD licensing Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 13:02:58 +0000 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] References: <200104062324.f36NOJs03847(a)moe.2bsd.com> In-Reply-To: <200104062324.f36NOJs03847(a)moe.2bsd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <01040713025800.00566(a)klamath.leguin.org.uk> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Friday 06 April 2001 11:24 pm, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > 2.11's still maintained - I've been busy (and a bit "burned out") and > haven't fired up the 11/73 as much as I should have or used to. So > many projects, so little time ... Hm, I saw the patch archive.. which patchlevel is the 2.11_rp_unknown image on minnie at? There's a couple of things I'd be interested in adding to 2BSD, though I'm not sure if they'd make it into upstream. One is the 4BSD timezones system, which is somewhat better than setting TIMEZONE in the kernel.. -larne- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA55128 for pups-liszt; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 03:15:07 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Sun Apr 8 03:00:01 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA55124 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 03:15:03 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f37H01815466 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 10:00:01 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 10:00:01 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200104071700.f37H01815466(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] STYX and 2.11BSD licensing Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Edward Brocklesby <ejb(a)leguin.org.uk> > Hm, I saw the patch archive.. which patchlevel is the 2.11_rp_unknown image > on minnie at? It's ancient. Look at /VERSION - it should have the current rev level: Current Patch Level: 436 Date: February 22, 2001 Oh, I see I've number 436 almost ready to publish ;) > There's a couple of things I'd be interested in adding to 2BSD, though I'm > not sure if they'd make it into upstream. One is the 4BSD timezones system, > which is somewhat better than setting TIMEZONE in the kernel.. The 4BSD timezone stuff is already there, at least in userland - see /usr/share/zoneinfo and 'tic' and so on. Since most PDP-11s do not have a "CMOS clock" to get the date and time from I'm not sure where the kernel would get its initial date/time from. Some models (11/93) have a TOY clock that could be set to GMT, but the other models do not - so the user/admin would have to remember to set the date/time to GMT when booting the system. Steven Schultz moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA56444 for pups-liszt; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 08:14:24 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> Sun Apr 8 08:10:15 2001 Received: from RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (isdn268.s.netic.de [212.9.163.12]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA56440 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 08:14:18 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE) Received: (from helbig@localhost) by RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f37MAFu20067; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 00:10:15 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 00:10:15 +0200 (CEST) From: Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> Message-Id: <200104072210.f37MAFu20067(a)RVC1.Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au, sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Subject: Re: [pups] STYX and 2.11BSD licensing Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > Since most PDP-11s do not have a "CMOS clock" to get the date and time > from I'm not sure where the kernel would get its initial date/time > from. [ ... ] In UNIX V6/V7 the kernel reads the initial time from the superblock of the root file system. The timestamp is written each time the superblock is updated on disk. > GMT, but the other models do not - so the user/admin would have to > remember to set the date/time to GMT when booting the system. The admin just has to remember that the date(1) command converts from localtime to GMT when setting the date -- unless an 's' is appended to the date string. (in V6 only, not mentioned in its man page) BTW. in V6, the timezone offset was not coded into the kernel, but in the C-library source ctime.c. If you happen to live outside Eastern Timezone, you'll have to change it. Furthermore the daylight saving time switch is hardcoded in localtime() -- last Sunday in April and last Sunday in October, with different rules for 1974 (Jan 5 and last Sunday in November) and 1975 (last Sunday in February and last Sunday in November). So you in V6 don't have to rebuild the kernel to adopt the timezone changes. Instead you have to rebuild the C-Library (at least replace ctime.c) and build all commands that depend on it. I've found these: date find ls who cron dump mail pr restore Putting the timezone offset into the kernel like in V7 seems to be better, because you don't have to recompile all those commands. Wolfgang PS. I've patches to V6, that make it y2k ready and avoid some integer overflows in ctime, which occure since 1998, so not related to y2k. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA56796 for pups-liszt; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 09:30:04 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Sun Apr 8 09:17:44 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA56792 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 09:30:00 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f37NHij19414 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 16:17:44 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 16:17:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200104072317.f37NHij19414(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] STYX and 2.11BSD licensing Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Wolfgang Helbig <helbig(a)Informatik.BA-Stuttgart.DE> > In UNIX V6/V7 the kernel reads the initial time from the superblock of the > root file system. The timestamp is written each time the superblock is updated > on disk. 2.11 (and as far as I can remember all of the 2BSD family) do the same thing. The trouble is that the initial time upon boot can be seriously wrong. For example I haven't booted my 11/73 in a month or two - the date and time will be sometime in Jan or Feb. In the "PC" world there's the CMOS clock (set to GMT on all the systems I have) and a battery - when the system boots it can read the correct/current/GMT date/time from the hardware (as can a 11/93 with a TOY clock). > BTW. in V6, the timezone offset was not coded into the kernel, but > in the C-library source ctime.c. If you happen to live outside Yep - I had hoped to never have to remember _that_ again ;) > Putting the timezone offset into the kernel like in V7 seems to be > better, because you don't have to recompile all those commands. Right. It is only one module in the kernel (param.c) that needs to be recompiled - just edit param.c and that's the only module that will be rebuilt. Another way is to use 'adb -w -k ...' and patch the kernel and/or memory. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA61234 for pups-liszt; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 02:18:54 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> Mon Apr 9 02:04:34 2001 Received: from mwnt5.microwalt.nl (mwnt5.microwalt.nl [195.86.89.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA61230 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 02:18:49 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl) Received: from mwnt4.microwalt.nl (unverified) by mwnt5.microwalt.nl (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id <T0a005f2652cb7c5a20(a)mwnt5.microwalt.nl>; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 18:07:22 +0100 Received: by mwnt4.microwalt.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <2HH7NA3Y>; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 18:04:36 +0200 Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020ABB(a)mwnt4.microwalt.nl> From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> To: "'Steven M. Schultz'" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] STYX and 2.11BSD licensing Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 18:04:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk All, > Since most PDP-11s do not have a "CMOS clock" to get the date and > time from I'm not sure where the kernel would get its initial > date/time from. Dunno about V6/V7/2BSD, but Ultrix-11 uses the "last modified" date-stamp from the root file system (inode 1; /) to save/restore the last known date. Kinda works, and better than having a system run in 1970 initially :) Still, TZ info is stored im the kernel. Would be nice to have that in user space, too... --fred ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA86572 for pups-liszt; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 04:45:21 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

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[pups] RL and RK Last Cylinder Warning (RE: VTServer)

by Jay Jaeger

Something I thought is worth warning folks about. For RL01, RL02, RK06 and RK07 (at least), the last cylinder is RESERVED for bad blocks and the pack serial number. Except for maintaining the bad block list, software should not write there, and should at least preserve the serial number (and its mirror copies that are usually present) when doing so. The current implementation of VTServer (in particular, the code in the "hk" driver in pdpvtstand) does not appear to take that into account. The problem is that if you take a *full* pack image from a pack and then restore that *full* pack image to a different pack, you will wipe out the latter's bad block info (and perhaps write in some areas that are known not to be very good). Traditionally, Unix variants dealt with this by insisting that you use error free (Suffix -EF in the DEC part number on the pack) disk packs. However, if you are using real hardware you may no longer have those available. Just a "heads up". (PS: FYI I am currently working on a flavor of the "vt" driver that will work over a DR11C. With the proper cabling (it takes different cables for input and output) you can manage over 1MB per minute that way -- about 20 times faster than a serial port. The code is pretty simple and should work on any old "plain jane" parallel port. (I do not know how it would behave on a modern serial port)). I had this working a long time ago, and VTServer prompted me to dredge it up again and test it. It still works with my PIII 350 under Win98 (it is old DOS code that accesses the old style parallel port directly). Within a few weeks I expect to provide a "pt" device driver for pdpvtstand, and cabling information and some source code for the PC side (which would be an example only). The protocol as I currently use it has no checksum. However I plan to modify "copy" to provide that information so that the results can be checked after the transfer. Jay Jaeger --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1(a)home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA27320 for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:11:21 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Apr 4 13:04:10 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA27316 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:11:19 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f3434A010297; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:04:10 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200104040304.f3434A010297(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] Re: RL and RK Last Cylinder Warning (RE: VTServer) In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010403213011.044d3da0@cirithi> from Jay Jaeger at "Apr 3, 2001 09:40:08 pm" To: Jay Jaeger <cube1(a)home.com> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 13:04:10 +1000 (EST) CC: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Jay Jaeger: > Something I thought is worth warning folks about. For RL01, RL02, RK06 and > RK07 (at least), the last cylinder is RESERVED for bad blocks and the pack > serial number. Jay, I've added your warnings to the new version, vtserver2.3a-20010404.tar.gz, which I just put out a few seconds ago. This also contains a patch to the ODT download code from Charles H Dickman <chd_1(a)nktelco.net>: I made some changes to the source to wait for the current memory value and trailing space to be echoed by ODT. I also had a bit of trouble if the output values were not padded with 0's. I think this is because any character other than a valid octal digit or a return or a ctrl-j is illegal in that context and causes an error. ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver/vtserver2.3a-20010404.tar.gz > (PS: FYI I am currently working on a flavor of the "vt" driver that will > work over a DR11C. With the proper cabling (it takes different cables for > input and output) you can manage over 1MB per minute that way -- about 20 > times faster than a serial port. The code is pretty simple and should work > on any old "plain jane" parallel port. (I do not know how it would behave > on a modern serial port)). > > I had this working a long time ago, and VTServer prompted me to dredge it > up again and test it. It still works with my PIII 350 under Win98 (it is > old DOS code that accesses the old style parallel port directly). Within a > few weeks I expect to provide a "pt" device driver for pdpvtstand, and > cabling information and some source code for the PC side (which would be an > example only). The protocol as I currently use it has no > checksum. However I plan to modify "copy" to provide that information so > that the results can be checked after the transfer. > Jay Jaeger Jay, if you could write a ptboot.s bootstrapper and a pt.c driver which speaks the same protocol [should be easy - just use vt.c and rewrite vtgetc() and vtputc()], then I'll happily add it to the next version. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA33889 for pups-liszt; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:11:17 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Apr 5 10:04:02 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA33880; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:11:13 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f35042G12856; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:04:02 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200104050004.f35042G12856(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] Ancient Unix licenses? (fwd) To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>, The Unix Heritage Society <tuhs(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:04:02 +1000 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk All, I've received this e-mail from a student at NYU Law Department. If any of you have copies of old Unix licenses, and your organisation would be prepared to release copies to Greg, could you contact him. Also, if you could send me copies of your licenses, that would be great too. About 8 people have already done this, and I am happy to act as a repository for this old information. Cheers, Warren ----- Forwarded message from gmp216(a)nyu.edu ----- From gmp(a)zebware.com Thu Apr 5 09:49:39 2001 To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au From: gmp216(a)nyu.edu Subject: Ancient Unix licenses? Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 23:49:31 +0000 Sender: gmp(a)zebware.com Peter Salus identified you as the collector of old Unix versions, so I thought you might be able to help me with a project I am working on. I am studying the legal history of Unix for a colloquium at NYU, and I would really love to see copies of the old Unix licenses that the various universities signed. Do you happen to have access to any of these? All I can find are the transcribed tape labels from your archive which say things like "subject to the software agreement you have with Western Electric." Thanks! And thank you also for pushing to make the source code available. That has been an immeasurable help. --- Greg Pomerantz NYU Law, J.D. '02 ----- End of forwarded message from gmp216(a)nyu.edu ----- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA36569 for pups-liszt; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 18:36:58 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 1 month

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None

by owner-pups＠minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au

Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA21273 for pups-liszt; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 07:57:37 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 07:57:37 +1000 (EST) From: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Message-Id: <200104012157.HAA21273(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> To: undisclosed-recipients:; Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA27190 for pups-liszt; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:48:08 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 1 month

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[pups] Re: New Release of VTserver program

by Jay Jaeger

Well, I had mixed success on a PDP-11/24. First off, a couple of bugs. In vtserver.c in the code that loads the bootstrap via console odt, the "C" format strings have "%6o". These need to be changed to "%6.6o" to make it work on my 11/24. Otherwise you get leading spaces. Also, the code that sends an entire ODT command in one "write()" fails. I had to change that (and the one that sends the "G" command) into a loop where I wrote just one character, and then read back one character that the 11/24 echoed. Otherwise it just hung. I suspect both of these changes would fix problems on some machines and would not harm any others. So, I got around that, and the standalone loaded. (Hooray) But..... When I tried to use my RK07 as input ( hk(0,0,0) , I got an error: sc=1 cs2=64 er=40 . Upon examination, HKCS1 bit 10 was indeed off (indicating an RK611 controller) whereas the RK07 bit for the drive at +12(octal) was set ON. So, the error itself is not unreasonable. But.... I looked at the code in hk.c, and tried it manually after resetting the machine, and the code should be getting the expected drive error when it first tries to address it as an RK06. That should cause it to switch to thinking it is an RK07, but something is going haywire. And, if I boot a pack, the boot code correctly figures out that it is an RK07 (when I look after it reads the boot block off of a garbage pack, Bit 10 in HKCS1 is indeed on). So, my guess is that the code in hk.c is busted in some way. Are there "2.11BSD for dummies under an emulator" instructions somewhere, so that I could hardwire hk.c to an RK07 temporarily? Or, perhaps can someone point me to the physical memory addresses in hk.c so I could just patch the array to tell it I have 2 RK07's ahead of time, rather than having it attempt to auto-detect the drive type? Haaaaaaaaaaaaalp 8~) Jay Jaeger --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1(a)home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA10752 for pups-liszt; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 17:55:53 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Sat Mar 31 17:47:28 2001 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA10748 for <pups-digest(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 17:55:47 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk) Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14jG82-000IE3-0Y; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 08:48:58 +0100 Message-ID: <XPB0TIAQuYx6Ewac(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 08:47:28 +0100 To: Jay Jaeger <cube1(a)home.com> Cc: pups-digest(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: New Release of VTserver program References: <200103282045.GAA92101(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> <4.3.2.7.2.20010330212401.00bb29b0@cirithi> In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20010330212401.00bb29b0@cirithi> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U <YSkKJATYm0AxAbv6xwlBrCeVCW> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In message <4.3.2.7.2.20010330212401.00bb29b0@cirithi>, Jay Jaeger <cube1(a)home.com> writes >Well, I had mixed success on a PDP-11/24. > >First off, a couple of bugs. > >In vtserver.c in the code that loads the bootstrap via console odt, the "C" >format strings have "%6o". These need to be changed to "%6.6o" to make it >work on my 11/24. Otherwise you get leading spaces. > >Also, the code that sends an entire ODT command in one "write()" fails. I >had to change that (and the one that sends the "G" command) into a loop >where I wrote just one character, and then read back one character that the >11/24 echoed. Otherwise it just hung. > >I suspect both of these changes would fix problems on some machines and >would not harm any others. > >So, I got around that, and the standalone loaded. (Hooray) But..... > >When I tried to use my RK07 as input ( hk(0,0,0) , I got an error: sc=1 >cs2=64 er=40 . Upon examination, HKCS1 bit 10 was indeed off (indicating >an RK611 controller) whereas the RK07 bit for the drive at +12(octal) was >set ON. So, the error itself is not unreasonable. But.... > >I looked at the code in hk.c, and tried it manually after resetting the >machine, and the code should be getting the expected drive error when it >first tries to address it as an RK06. That should cause it to switch to >thinking it is an RK07, but something is going haywire. And, if I boot a >pack, the boot code correctly figures out that it is an RK07 (when I look >after it reads the boot block off of a garbage pack, Bit 10 in HKCS1 is >indeed on). > >So, my guess is that the code in hk.c is busted in some way. > >Are there "2.11BSD for dummies under an emulator" instructions somewhere, >so that I could hardwire hk.c to an RK07 temporarily? Or, perhaps can >someone point me to the physical memory addresses in hk.c so I could just >patch the array to tell it I have 2 RK07's ahead of time, rather than >having it attempt to auto-detect the drive type? > Jay, I don't know how to do this and I suspect that it would be very difficult (someone PLEASE prove me wrong). But, if you load it into an emulator using another type of disk, say, an RP05 or RM05 that the emulator can support, then you can play with hk.c to your heart's content. Then you can run the code out and test it on the PDP. Cheers Robin >Haaaaaaaaaaaaalp 8~) > >Jay Jaeger >--- >Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection >cube1(a)home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollect >ion > ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA12583 for pups-liszt; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 00:33:07 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com> Sun Apr 1 00:26:58 2001 Received: from goby.ciswired.com (IDENT:root@goby.ciswired.com [206.97.67.65]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA12579 for <pups-digest(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 00:33:02 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from greg(a)ciswired.com) Received: from weasel.ciswired.com (root(a)weasel.ciswired.com [206.97.67.73]) by goby.ciswired.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id JAA12688; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 09:17:21 -0500 Received: from localhost (greg@localhost) by weasel.ciswired.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08702; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 09:26:58 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: weasel.ciswired.com: greg owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 09:26:58 -0500 (EST) From: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com> To: classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org, pups-digest(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: [pups] Reformat RA81/82? Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103310916520.8697-100000(a)weasel.ciswired.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Can RA81/82 disks be reformatted in the field? If so, is this done through XXDP or is there a way to do it from the disk's serial port? My RA82 occasionally lights its FAULT light and extinguishes its ready light during write operations. The likelyhood of it faulting appears (but I am not certain) to be correlated with a specific region of the disk. About five-ten seconds after the fault, the FAULT indicator turns off and ready comes back on. At no time is an I/O error generated that the application or the operating system (2.11BSD) see so this fault appears to be transient and is resolved by either the drive or the drive/controller together. It "smells" like a data write error that's resolved after a few automatic retries. I'm hoping a low-level reformat could clear it up. Am I wacked out? If there's an XXDP exerciser/formatter available I'd appreciate it if someone could point me there. It's been nearly twenty years since the last time I even tried running XXDP Thanks as always, greg p.s. The RA81 drive on the same controller never gives any trouble (yet). I've tried some more basic things like swapping SDI cables and drive ports but it doesn't make a difference. Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg(a)ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18

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[pups] RE: Vtserver & 2.11 standalone progs

by Fred N. van Kempen

Robert and Warren, Robert asks: > Is Ultrix installable from Vtserver yet? It appears to be the only other > version of unix that will work with MSCP disk drives, and maybe I'd have > better luck with it than 2.11BSD. If you have any Ultrix utilities > semi-running I'd be glad to test them for you! and Warren replies: > Robert, Fred van Kempen has been bashing his head on Ultrix with VT, but > has been making progress over the past few days. I'll cc this e-mail to > him and he can tell you the story :) The status is as follows. Feel free to relay onto the various newsgoups and lists; I obviously lack the time to :) - VTserver runs on my VAX (Ultrix-32 V4.4 and V4.5) - Client code is now in Ultrix-11 V3.1 I can get VTserver to upload the primary boot loader to the PDP-11 (I test with two.. a MicroPDP-11/23 and a MicroPDP-11/53) and that in turn makes the box load the Boot: program. When that is loaded, I can go two ways: - type "install" and Boot: will load the RAM disk from the server, and switch to that. Works. - manually load and run programs. Works. The problem here, is, that Ultrix uses a very complicated memory setup, which forces some MMU fiddling into all the drivers. Warren's driver was done for BSD and V7, which do not have this "problem". I am now adding this MMU support to the driver, and that's the end of it.. all other parts work fine. Here is a test run log. Falafel is the VAX 3100. My VTserver program uploads the boot code to the (Micro-)PDP-11 if the "-o" option is given. {falafel:~/ULT} $ vt -o Virtual tape server, $Revision: 2.3 $ stty cs8 -parenb 9600 clocal crtscts Opening port /dev/tty01 .... open Sending PDP-11 Boot Code to uODT ........................................................................ [Enterring TERMINAL/SERVER mode. Escape with <ESC><ESC>] VTS: Opened boot bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbb bbbbb Sizing Memory... To list options, type help then press <RETURN> 23Boot: vt(0,0)scat VTS: Opened scat VTS: Opened syscall File: vt(0,0)contents VTS: Opened contents File 1: 2 copies of magtape boots File 5: This file (contents) File 6: The program mkfs (make a ULTRIX-11 file system) File 7: The program restor (restore a dump onto a file system) File 8: The program dskinit (disk format and verify) Filre 9: The program bads (scan disk for brams for memory disk (file system image ) File 14: rcmds: optional software loaded into ROOT (TAR image) File 15: | V File 31: ucmds: optional software loaded into /USR (TAR images) File 32: sysgen: optional sorftware for re-loading sysgen (TAR image) File 33: The ULTRIX-11 root file system in dump/restor format File 34: The ULTRIX-11 /usr file system in dump/restor format Exit called 23Boot: ------------------------------------ The other commands work similarly. I only need to revamp the MMU stuff, and then I'm done and we can boot/install Ultrix-11 from VT ! --fred ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA86317 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:58:18 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> Wed Mar 28 07:18:40 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA86313 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:58:16 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f2RNphe63854 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:51:43 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from csadfa.cs.adfa.edu.au (csadfa.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.6]) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) with ESMTP id f2RLPR963436 for <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 07:25:27 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl) Received: from mwnt5.microwalt.nl (mwnt5.microwalt.nl [195.86.89.38]) by csadfa.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.0/8.9.0) with ESMTP id HAA18994 for <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 07:25:33 +1000 (EST) Received: from mwnt4.microwalt.nl (unverified) by mwnt5.microwalt.nl (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id <T0a005f26528ed034b1(a)mwnt5.microwalt.nl>; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:22:07 +0100 Received: by mwnt4.microwalt.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <HLMQJ18F>; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:18:44 +0200 Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A86(a)mwnt4.microwalt.nl> From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> To: "'wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>, Robert Collet <bob.collet(a)worldnet.att.net>, "'stock(a)sba.nl'" <stock(a)sba.nl>, "'kees.stravers(a)iae.nl'" <kees.stravers(a)iae.nl> Cc: "'linuxee(a)aol.com'" <linuxee(a)aol.com> Subject: [pups] RE: Vtserver & 2.11 standalone progs Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 23:18:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Guys, > Robert, Fred van Kempen has been bashing his head on Ultrix with VT, but > has been making progress over the past few days. I'll cc this e-mail to > him and he can tell you the story :) As of today, it is WORKING ! I just finished a (slooooow :) system load onto a MicroPDP-11/23. Works like a charm.. just takes a while. Here is a log: {falafel:~/ULT} $ vt -o Virtual tape server, $Revision: 2.3 $ stty cs8 -parenb 9600 clocal crtscts Opening port /dev/tty01 .... open Sending PDP-11 Boot Code to uODT ........................................................................ [Enterring TERMINAL/SERVER mode. Escape with <ESC><ESC>] VTS: Opened sas/boot bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb bbb bbbbbb Sizing Memory... To list options, type help then press <RETURN> 23Boot: install Copying auto-install programs to memory disk... VTS: Opened data/saprog.dsk rrrRrRRRRRRRRRRrrRRRRRRRrRrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrr rrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrr 100K sent rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrr rrrr rrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 200K sent rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrRrrrrrrr rrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr ****** ULTRIX-11 System Disk Load you need to answer some questions about your system's configuration. Enter your answer, using only lowercase characters, then press <RETURN>. If you need help answering any of the questions, enter a ? then press <RETURN>. Press <RETURN> to continue: ****** WARNING *ks must be converted to the new 1K block file system. Proceed with the installation <y or n> ? y Target processor is an 11/23 <y or n> ? y CURRENT CPU = 11/23, TARGET CPU = 11/23 System disk type <? for help> ? y\yrd51 ****** CAUTION ****** You must scan MSCP disks for bad blocks, type ?<RETURN> for help! Scan system disk(s) for bad blocks <y or n> ? y ****** SCANNING SYSTEM DISK(s) FOR BAD BLOCKS ****** ULTRIX-11 MSCP Disk Initialization Program Disk type < ra60 ra80 ra81 rx33 rx50 rd31 rd32 rd51 rd52 rd53 rd54 rc25 >: rd51 Unit number < 0-3 >: 0 Starting block number < 0 >: 0 Number of blocks to check < 21600 >: READING... 21600 blocks checked 0 bad blocks found 0 bad blocks replaced Exit called ****** BAD BLOCK SCAN COMPLETE ****** ****** MAKING EMPTY (ROOT) FILE SYSTEM ****** File system size: 3730 Disk type: rd51 Processor type: 23 File system name: root Volume name: sd_rd0 File system: rd(0,0) isize = 2384 m/n = 1 72 Exit called ****** EMPTY FILE SYSTEM COMPLETED ****** ****** RESTORING (ROOT) ONTO SYSTEM DISK ****** Input: vt(0,0)root VTS: Opened data/root.dmp Disk: rd(0,0) rRrRrRrRrRrRrrrRrrrrrrrRrRrRrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrRrrrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrR rRrR rRrRrRrRrRrrrRrRrRrRrrrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrRrRrrrr rrrr rRrRrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrr 100K sent [... deleted ...] 3600K sent rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrr rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrr rrrr rrRrrrrrrrrrRrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrrrrREnd of dump media ****** FILE SYSTEM RESTORE COMPLETE ****** ****** CHECKING (ROOT) FILE SYSTEM ****** File: rd(0,0) Salvage free list <y or n> ? n rd(0,0): files 305 (r=280,d=17,b=1,c=7,p=0,l=0) used 3389 (i=182,ii=0,iii=0,d=3207) free 190 missing 0 ****** FILE SYSTEM CHECK COMPLETE ****** ****** MAKING EMPTY (USR) FILE SYSTEM ****** File system size: 5934 Disk type: rd51 Processor type: 23 File system name: /usr Volume name: sd_rd0 File system: rd(0,9700) isize = 3792 m/n = 1 72 Exit called ****** EMPTY FILE SYSTEM COMPLETED ****** ****** RESTORING (USR) ONTO SYSTEM DISK ****** Input: vt(0,0)usr VTS: Opened data/usr.dmp Disk: rd(0,9700) rRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrrrRrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrR rRrR rRrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrRrR rRrR rrrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrrrRrRrRrrrRrRrRrRrRrRrRr 100K sent [... deleted ...] 5400K sent rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrRrRrRrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrRrRrrrrrrrrrRrrrrrrrrrrr RrRr RrRrrrrrRrrrRrRrRrREnd of dump media ****** FILE SYSTEM RESTORE COMPLETE ****** ****** CHECKING (USR) FILE SYSTEM ****** File: rd(0,9700) Salvage free list <y or n> ? n rd(0,9700): files 619 (r=570,d=49,b=0,c=0,p=0,l=0) used 4824 (i=228,ii=1,iii=0,d=4594) free 872 missing 0 ****** FILE SYSTEM CHECK COMPLETE ****** ****** COPYING BOOT TO SYSTEM DISK BLOCK ZERO ****** ****** BLOCK ZERO BOOT LOADED ****** ****** BOOTING ULTRIX-11 SYSTEM TO SINGLE-USER MODE ****** Sizing Memory... 23Boot: rd(0,0)unix (CTRL/C will abort auto-boot) rd(0,0)unix: 14784+17024+8192+8000+8064+8000+8064+8128+8000+7808+7936+7936+7680+ 7360+1344 eráóe ½ äelete ëill ½ U iîtr ½ Ã Û [Back to host.] That's where the parity stuff bites us (see the dicussion regarding 2.11BSD :) but I'll fix that later.. its a make-up change, trivial. Let's continue with Kermit: {falafel:~/ULT} $ kermit Connecting to /dev/tty01, speed 9600. The escape character is ^\ (ASCII 28). Type the escape character followed by C to get back, or followed by ? to see other options. This program performs operating system setup functions during installation and normal system operation. Setup operates in one of three possible modes (phases), depending on the current state of the system. The three modes are: Phase 1: Initial setup -- prepares system for first sysgen. Phase 2: Final setup -- completes the system setup. Phase 3: Change setup -- handles system setup changes. The program will ask several setup questions. Enter your answer to each question, using lowercase characters, then press <RETURN>. The questions include helpful hints enclosed in angle brackets < > and/or parenthesis ( ). If you need additional help answering any question, enter a ? or the word help then press <RETURN>. You can correct typing mistakes by pressing the <DELETE> key to erase a single character or <CTRL/U> to erase the entire line. You can interrupt the setup program by typing <CTRL/C>. This allows you to abort the setup process or restart it. Press <RETURN> to continue: Is the console terminal a CRT (video terminal) <y or n> ? y PLEASE CONFIRM: console is a VIDEO terminal <y or n> ? y ****** READING SETUP DATA FROM setup.info FILE ****** (vt(0,0)boot) - bad load device! The initial setup program cannot obtain the information it needs to complete the installation from the setup.info file. The sdload program writes this information into the setup.info file after loading the software onto the system disk. For some unknown reason the setup program cannot access the information. You can supply the missing information or abort the installation. If you continue, the program will prompt you for the following: o Setup phase number o System disk type o Target processor type o Software load device type Continue the installation <y or n> ? n ****** INITIAL SETUP ABORTED ****** You have the following options: o Restart the installation procedure at the beginning. o Execute the following steps to retry the initial setup: Halt the processor. Execute the hardware bootstrap for the system disk. The setup program should restart automatically, if it does not, execute: cd /.setup; setup. o Contact the Telephone Support Center or your local DIGITAL software services office for assistance. # ------------------------------------------------------------------------ and that's where it currently ends. I did already upgrade the root file system dump (hey.. I knew it was working once it started load that one.. :) so the kernel is already up to spec. I also have updated versions of /etc/rdate and /bin/date on it, so we can install using this era, and not go back to the early 70s :) Problems to be fixed: - icky parity stuff in VTserver (terminal mode) .. there are more problems with it. I think the receive buffer can overflow if we are in the main server_loop() routine... causing us to loose characters on input. - no kernel support for the VT device, so, past the initial load, we're still fucked, so to speak. In other words.. Warren, sweetie.. should we change our priorities and do the kernel driver first, and THEN redo the protocol as discussed last night? Cheers, Fred (**yawn** - 109 straight hours of coding :)

24 years, 1 month

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[pups] New Release of VTserver program

by Warren Toomey

All, I spent the weekend working on my VTserver program, which lets you copy disk images in/out of a PDP-11 without a tape drive. It's at ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver Could I get anybody with a PDP-11, 256Kbytes of core, and no tape drive to try this out. I'm keen to find out which -11 models it does or doesn't work on. Also, if you have less than 256Kbytes of core, please let me know if you want Vtserver to run on your platform. If there's enough interest, I'll try to rewrite the code to fit in a smaller footprint. At present, Fred van Kempen is also working on adding VT support to Ultrix-11. When he's done, we will do a merge of the server, and add his Ultrix client code into a separate directory of the VT distribution. Attached is some more blurb from the README. Warren The Vtserver program provides you with a method of copying a disk image into a PDP-11, or extracting a disk image from a PDP-11, without a tape drive or indeed an installed operating system. The approach here is use a nearby Unix or Linux computer as both the PDP-11 console and as a virtual tape server. The VTserver software comes as two components: a set of PDP-11 software which acts as the virtual tape client, and the server which is hosted on the nearby Unix machine. The two computers are connected via an RS-232 null modem with hardware handshaking. I've used the Ersatz-11 2.0 demo simulator with various CPU models, and RL02 and RK05 disk images, to test copy. Here are the results: copy can read and write disk images for /24, /34A, /40, /44, /45, /70 and /94 systems when they have 256Kbytes of memory. It doesn't work for the 11/35 as it doesn't have the MUL instruction, which the 2.11BSD C compiler generates.

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RE: [pups] Disk query on Ultrix 3.1

by Fred N. van Kempen

Kevin, > I am using an 11/83 with an Emulex UC07 Qbus-SCSI card. At present I have a > Seagate ST4767N disk attached. The emulex card emulating an MSCP drive I > believe. Nice, I have one too (an UC08, which is just a dual-port version of the '7). > I am sure I could also find a higher capacity drive without > too much effort. Yup.. come to Holland, attend one of the 6-weekly "dump" shows, and find yourself loaded with 1 and 2GB drives for a couple of bucks... > Which disk should I tell the Ultrix installation I have to get the best from > my setup. I made an 'educated' guess of RA81 for the moment, and that > works. Ultrix will think it is an RA81, most likely. The controller will be seen as either an RQDX3 (MFM QBUS) or an UDA50 (MFM Unibus). Never tried that, 'cos the controller is still on my "todo shelf". Drives attached to either will report as RAxx'es... > I could physically attach a drive with a much higher capacity > than DEC ever envisaged, but which drive do I 'pretend' I am using. I have a kernel with "RA99" compiled in. That is a test for my experimental support for Ultrix-32-like "partition tables" (/etc/chpt et al). Works OK so far... Anyway. Uhm, your drive most probably should work fine when referred to as an RA81 on an RQDX or similar.. UDA50 comes to mind. Cheers, Fred ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA58983 for pups-liszt; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 09:49:41 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> Sat Mar 24 08:43:20 2001 Received: from Tempo.Update.UU.SE (IDENT:0@Tempo.Update.UU.SE [130.238.19.17]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA58979 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 09:49:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from bqt(a)update.uu.se) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Tempo.Update.UU.SE (8.11.2/8.11.2/Update-Iltempogigante) with ESMTP id f2NMhLt31294; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:43:21 +0100 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 23:43:20 +0100 (CET) From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> To: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> cc: "'Kevin Murrell'" <kevin(a)xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk>, Pups Mailing List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: RE: [pups] Disk query on Ultrix 3.1 In-Reply-To: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A54(a)mwnt4.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103232340070.25398-100000(a)Tempo.Update.UU.SE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Kevin, > > > Which disk should I tell the Ultrix installation I have to get the best > from > > my setup. I made an 'educated' guess of RA81 for the moment, and that > > works. > Ultrix will think it is an RA81, most likely. The controller will be seen > as > either an RQDX3 (MFM QBUS) or an UDA50 (MFM Unibus). Never tried that, 'cos > the > controller is still on my "todo shelf". Drives attached to either will > report > as RAxx'es... Actually, the UDA-50 isn't MFM, it's SDI. The QBUS equivalent is the KDA-50. There is no MFM controller for Unibus. That is, no equivalent of the RQDXn exists for Unibus. Disks on the RQDXn reports as RDxx or RXxx, while disks on the [KU]DA-50 reports as RAxx (from a hardware point of view). They're both MSCP controllers though. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA59471 for pups-liszt; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 11:29:20 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> Sat Mar 24 10:16:13 2001 Received: from mwnt5.microwalt.nl (mwnt5.microwalt.nl [195.86.89.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA59467 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 11:29:15 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl) Received: from mwnt4.microwalt.nl (unverified) by mwnt5.microwalt.nl (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id <T0a005f26527aa2a507(a)mwnt5.microwalt.nl>; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 01:19:57 +0000 Received: by mwnt4.microwalt.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <HLMQJ1WA>; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 01:16:22 +0100 Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A55(a)mwnt4.microwalt.nl> From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> To: "'Johnny Billquist'" <bqt(a)update.uu.se>, "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> Cc: "'Kevin Murrell'" <kevin(a)xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk>, Pups Mailing List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: RE: [pups] Disk query on Ultrix 3.1 Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 01:16:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Johnny, > Actually, the UDA-50 isn't MFM, it's SDI. The QBUS equivalent is the > KDA-50. Ahhh, i knew it was something-50 :) Twas a while ago since I last touched a Unibus box.. can you tell? :) > Disks on the RQDXn reports as RDxx or RXxx, while disks on > the [KU]DA-50 > reports as RAxx (from a hardware point of view). They're both MSCP > controllers though. Yup. The UC0x talks MSCP (and/or TMSCP, if configured) on the Qbus side, and SCSI on the device side. I have an UC08 which is configured for MSCP on bus 0, and TMSCP on bus1. The attached Exabyte 8200 (2GB) is seen as a giant TK50 :) That was on the MVII, though.. havent used it since. Was going to put it in the 11/83, _if_ I can find a BA123. Anyone got one of those laying around? :) Cheers, Fred ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **********************************************************************

24 years, 2 months

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[pups] Looking for some common switch settings...

by Gregory R. Travis

Does anyone have handy the switch settings for DEC PDP-11/44 memory boards? I have a collection of third-party boards (nat. semi and standard memories) but no documentation on them. I suspect they use the same dip settings as DEC MS11-xx (M8743) boards (of which I also have a few but no docos). I'm also looking for DZ11 (M7819) IRQ/CSR switch settings. Thanks! greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg(a)ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA51969 for pups-liszt; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:15:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From kbd <kbd(a)ndx.net> Fri Mar 23 17:08:43 2001 Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA51962 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:14:58 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kbd(a)ndx.net) Received: from viaokbd2 ([216.103.73.141]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0GAN00LM62IJU1(a)mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:08:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:08:43 -0800 From: kbd <kbd(a)ndx.net> Subject: [pups] 211 install questions/probs In-reply-to: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC3020A31(a)mwnt4.microwalt.nl> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Message-id: <HFEPIJEEKKDEGOFFHBLEKEBGCHAA.kbd(a)ndx.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Has anyone been able to create and install a tape made from the: ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD/ directory? I've built the tape as described in the readme file and went back can checked it with a hexdump and it appears correct. Tried booting with the sputnik and E11 sims with no luck: PDP-11 simulator V2.3d sim> set cpu 1m sim> at tm0 c:\211.tape sim> b tm0 000002 (HALT) sim> I've been able to boot other tape images with no problem. Any ideas would be very appreciated. Kirk ps - A dump of the boot tape FTP'd or Email'd would be very-very appreciated. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA52402 for pups-liszt; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:50:24 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Kevin Murrell" <kevin(a)xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk> Fri Mar 23 18:42:08 2001 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk (cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk [195.92.195.171]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA52398 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:50:19 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kevin(a)xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk) Received: from [195.92.198.123] (helo=mail17.svr.pol.co.uk) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14gNBA-00006k-00 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:44:16 +0000 Received: from modem-65.eldacar.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.179.65] helo=XPUPPY) by mail17.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14gNB9-0004fT-00 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:44:15 +0000 From: "Kevin Murrell" <kevin(a)xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk> To: "Pups Mailing List" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] Disk query on Ultrix 3.1 Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:42:08 -0000 Message-ID: <ODEGIBMIBMEHMAMOEIODGEMPCFAA.kevin(a)xpuppy.freeserve.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I am using an 11/83 with an Emulex UC07 Qbus-SCSI card. At present I have a Seagate ST4767N disk attached. The emulex card emulating an MSCP drive I believe. I am sure I could also find a higher capacity drive without too much effort. Which disk should I tell the Ultrix installation I have to get the best from my setup. I made an 'educated' guess of RA81 for the moment, and that works. I could physically attach a drive with a much higher capacity than DEC ever envisaged, but which drive do I 'pretend' I am using. Many thanks Kevin Murrell Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA52408 for pups-liszt; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:50:42 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Fri Mar 23 18:44:24 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA52404 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:50:40 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f2N8iPV18979; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:44:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200103230844.f2N8iPV18979(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] 211 install questions/probs In-Reply-To: <HFEPIJEEKKDEGOFFHBLEKEBGCHAA.kbd(a)ndx.net> from kbd at "Mar 22, 2001 11:08:43 pm" To: kbd <kbd(a)ndx.net> Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:44:24 +1100 (EST) CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by kbd: [Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > Has anyone been able to create and install a tape made from the: > > ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD/ > > PDP-11 simulator V2.3d > sim> set cpu 1m > sim> at tm0 c:\211.tape > sim> b tm0 > 000002 (HALT) > sim> > > I've been able to boot other tape images with no problem. Any ideas > would be very appreciated. > Kirk Did you use makesimtape to create the tape image? If not, that's probably the problem. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA54074 for pups-liszt; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 01:46:38 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rgen_Pehrson?= <jp(a)spektr.eu.org> Sat Mar 24 00:34:02 2001 Received: from spektr.eu.org (spektr.gnulix.org [212.85.67.107]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA54070 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 01:46:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jp(a)spektr.eu.org) Received: from localhost (jp@localhost) by spektr.eu.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA89647; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:34:02 +0100 (CET) (envelope-from jp(a)spektr.eu.org) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:34:02 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rgen_Pehrson?= <jp(a)spektr.eu.org> To: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com> cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Looking for some common switch settings... In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103221425150.31709-100000(a)weasel.ciswired.com> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0103231451430.87609-100000(a)spektr.eu.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Gregory R. Travis wrote: > Does anyone have handy the switch settings for DEC PDP-11/44 > memory boards? I have a collection of third-party boards > (nat. semi and standard memories) but no documentation on > them. > > I suspect they use the same dip settings as DEC MS11-xx (M8743) > boards (of which I also have a few but no docos). Couldn't find the manual for the M8743, but I managed to dig up the manual for the M8722, MS11-M. Let me know if you want the settings for this board instead. > I'm also looking for DZ11 (M7819) IRQ/CSR switch settings. I looked really hard on our internal network for an electronic copy of this manual but I couldn't find it so I'll try to make an ACSII drawing of it.. [From Communications Options Minireference Manual, EK-CMIV2-RM-005] -------------------------------- | W1 o-o _ | | | / | | || | | ____ J1 || | | |____| ___ |_\ | | E81 ____ |___| | | |____| E11 | | E52 �| | | |___||_____||_____||____||______| Switch pack E11: [Use 1-6 on the switch pack to set the vector] S7 S6 S5 S4 S3 S2 Vector address off off 300 off off off 310 off off off 320 off off off off 330 off off off 340 off off off off 350 off off off off 360 off off off off off 370 off 400 --- off off 500 --- off off 600 --- off off off 700 Note: Switch OFF produces logical "one" on the Unibus . W1: Normally in. Out disables master clk for factory testing. [W1: Jumper just above switch pack E72] E81 (Switch pack to the left of the card, device address selection): S10 S9 S8 S7 S6 S5 S4 S3 S2 S1 Device address on 760010 on 760020 on on 760030 on 760040 on on 760050 on on 760060 on on on 760070 on 760100 -- on 760200 -- on on 760300 -- on 760400 -- on on 760500 -- on on 760600 -- on on on 760700 -- on 761000 -- on 762000 -- on on 763000 -- on 764000 The DZ11 resides in floating address space o Device address ranks 8 o Vector address ranks 27 -- J�rgen Pehrson jp(a)spektr.eu.org http://spektr.eu.org/~jp/ ----------------------------------------------------------- "i must say the linux community is a lot nicer than the unix community. a negative comment on unix would warrent death threats. with linux, it is like stirring up a nest of butterflies." -- Ken Thompson. 1999 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA54401 for pups-liszt; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 02:20:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com> Sat Mar 24 01:14:57 2001 Received: from goby.ciswired.com (IDENT:root@goby.ciswired.com [206.97.67.65]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA54397 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 02:20:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from greg(a)ciswired.com) Received: from weasel.ciswired.com (root(a)weasel.ciswired.com [206.97.67.73]) by goby.ciswired.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA20541; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:05:39 -0500 Received: from localhost (greg@localhost) by weasel.ciswired.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA01589; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:14:57 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: weasel.ciswired.com: greg owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:14:57 -0500 (EST) From: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com> To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=F6rgen_Pehrson?= <jp(a)spektr.eu.org> cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Looking for some common switch settings... In-Reply-To: <Pine.BSF.4.21.0103231451430.87609-100000(a)spektr.eu.org> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103231014130.1586-100000(a)weasel.ciswired.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=X-UNKNOWN Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au id CAA54398 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Fri, 23 Mar 2001, [iso-8859-1] J�rgen Pehrson wrote: > On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Gregory R. Travis wrote: > > > Does anyone have handy the switch settings for DEC PDP-11/44 > > memory boards? I have a collection of third-party boards > > (nat. semi and standard memories) but no documentation on > > them. > > > > I suspect they use the same dip settings as DEC MS11-xx (M8743) > > boards (of which I also have a few but no docos). > > Couldn't find the manual for the M8743, but I managed to dig up the manual > for the M8722, MS11-M. Let me know if you want the settings for this > board instead. Yeah, if you could. Haven't heard anything from anyone else on the M8743. Thanks. greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg(a)ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA57646 for pups-liszt; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 05:31:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From kbd <kbd(a)ndx.net> Sat Mar 24 04:22:08 2001 Received: from mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (mta5.snfc21.pbi.net [206.13.28.241]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA57642 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 05:31:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kbd(a)ndx.net) Received: from viaokbd2 ([216.103.73.141]) by mta5.snfc21.pbi.net (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.3.5.2000.01.05.12.18.p9) with SMTP id <0GAN0054CXOY4P(a)mta5.snfc21.pbi.net> for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:22:14 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:22:08 -0800 From: kbd <kbd(a)ndx.net> Subject: RE: [pups] 211 install questions/probs In-reply-to: <200103230844.f2N8iPV18979(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Message-id: <HFEPIJEEKKDEGOFFHBLEIEBKCHAA.kbd(a)ndx.net> MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk >In article by kbd: >> Has anyone been able to create and install a tape made from the: >> >> ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PDP-11/Distributions/ucb/2.11BSD/ >> >Did you use makesimtape to create the tape image? If not, that's >probably the problem. Thanks for the pointer Warren. For the record, makesimtape can be found here: ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PDP-11/Trees/2.11BSD/usr/src/sys/pdpstand/makesi mtape.c Kirk

24 years, 2 months

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Re: [pups] Cabinet Questions

by Carl Lowenstein

> From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" <jss(a)ou.edu> > To: "PUPS Mailing List" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> > Subject: [pups] Cabinet Questions > Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 01:30:38 -0600 > > In the peripherals manual, the H960 cabinet comes in two models: the -C and > the -D. The -D model has a sliding drawer in the lower half of the cabinet > that provides space for 9 "system units". What are these "system units"? > How big are they? What goes there? When do you need the -D model? A system unit (SU) was the fundamental hardware building block of an 11/20 and many subsequent PDP's. It was a frame 16.5 inches by 2.25 inches that held 3 blocks of dual card sockets. Each socket block was nominally 5.25 inches by 2.00 inches and could hold four "dual" cards spaced at 0.5-inch intervals. Thus the whole SU could hold four "quad" cards plus two "dual" Unibus connectors in its four rows by six sockets. Later production included a double-wide system unit that could hold nine cards. Typical things that came built into one SU include 4kW (8kB) of core memory and RK05 disk controllers. There were also SU's that were pre-wired to hold four Small Peripheral Controllers (SPC's). Typical SPC's included single-line serial interfaces, and line-printer controllers. Think of the H906-D as an 11/40 or 11/45 without any backplane or cards. > Let's say I want to ultimately build a 11/70 system with a TE16/TM03 (in its > own cabinet, I guess), a TU56/TC11, a paper tape reader/punch (PC11?), 3 or > 4 RK05s, and 1 or 2 RP04s. What set of cabinets do I need for this system? > Assume the CPU has the SETASI memory upgrades and not core. > > Una vez mas... Let's say I want to ultimately build a 11/40 system with the > same peripherals as above minus the RP04s and with a TU10/TM11 as the > 9-track. What kind of cabineting do I need here? Assume the CPU has MOS > memory and not core. I think you could put that system into two H960 racks. Figure 1/2 of a rack for the 11/40, 1/3 of a rack for the TU10. RK05, PC11, TU56 each take up 1/6 of an H960. With MOS memory you should have plenty of room in the 11/40 frame itself for the necessary one-SU controllers for RK05, TU56. Especially if you take out the 2-SU frame that originally held the core memory. I'm not sure where you put the TM11, I never actually had a real one, just emulated controllers that fit in one SU. > Finally, how much weight can a H960 support? Probably 500 or 600 pounds. If you can, look for the older H960's with welded frames rather than pop rivets. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu

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[pups] Cabinet Questions

by Jeffrey S. Sharp

Many thanks to those of you who have answered my previous questions. I have obtained the 1976 peripherals manual, and have read just enough to bring up the next set of questions. This round is about cabineting. In the peripherals manual, the H960 cabinet comes in two models: the -C and the -D. The -D model has a sliding drawer in the lower half of the cabinet that provides space for 9 "system units". What are these "system units"? How big are they? What goes there? When do you need the -D model? Let's say I want to ultimately build a 11/70 system with a TE16/TM03 (in its own cabinet, I guess), a TU56/TC11, a paper tape reader/punch (PC11?), 3 or 4 RK05s, and 1 or 2 RP04s. What set of cabinets do I need for this system? Assume the CPU has the SETASI memory upgrades and not core. Una vez mas... Let's say I want to ultimately build a 11/40 system with the same peripherals as above minus the RP04s and with a TU10/TM11 as the 9-track. What kind of cabineting do I need here? Assume the CPU has MOS memory and not core. I've got guesses, but I'd like to keep them private to save myself the embarassment. :-) Finally, how much weight can a H960 support? -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss(a)ou.edu "One World, One Web, One Program" -- Microsoft advertisement "Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer" -- Adolf Hitler Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA28053 for pups-liszt; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:02:44 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Jeffrey S. Sharp" <jss(a)ou.edu> Tue Mar 20 19:01:35 2001 Received: from mail6.mmcable.com (fe6.rdc-kc.rr.com [24.94.163.53]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA28049 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:02:41 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jss(a)ou.edu) Received: from station1 ([65.26.237.187]) by mail6.mmcable.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.537.53); Tue, 20 Mar 2001 02:54:02 -0600 Message-ID: <003501c0b11c$5ddae0c0$0a01a8c0@station1> From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" <jss(a)ou.edu> To: "ClassicCmp Mailing List" <classiccmp(a)classiccmp.org>, "PUPS Mailing List" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] PDP-11/70 Front Panel Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 03:01:35 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I will be picking up a PDP-11/70 in a few weeks, but it needs a front panel. If anybody has an extra, please e-mail me. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss(a)ou.edu

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Re: [pups] AVIV vs. DigiData tape controller

by Gregory R. Travis

Can someone enlighten me regarding DEC SDI cabling? Here's what I have: RA81 disk drive with two big black cables coming out of it, one for each port (A/B). The cables terminate at the drive on one end and at a small metal box on the other end. The small metal box has two sockets on it (denoted with "*" in the picture below): Small metal box / +----------+ "A" cable / | RA81 |------------[]* | Drive |------------[]* +----------+ "B" cable UDA50 controller in 11/44 with four sets of orange cables coming out of it and terminating in a four-port socket set (denoted "*" in picture below) in a larger metal box at the back of the cabinet: Larger metal box / / *[]_________ *[]_________\ *[]_________\\ <- Four (4) Cable groups *[]_________\\\ \\\\ ---------- | UDA50 | | | ---------- What I have tried: I unscrewed the black cables from the small metal box and plugged one of them directly into one of the ports on the larger metal box: +----------+ "A" cable | RA81 |----------------| | Drive |----------[]* | +----------+ "B" cable | / Larger metal box / / | / |-*[]_________ *[]_________\ *[]_________\\ <- Four (4) Cable groups *[]_________\\\ \\\\ ---------- | UDA50 | | | ---------- That didn't work (I tried it with two different drives and cable sets). The operating system (2.11BSD) sees the UDA50 but does not see the drive (which is spun up and "ready"). I did a little searching on the internet and found a couple of cryptic discussions. What I surmised from the discussions was that you cannot directly connect the drive cable to the bulkhead box on the computer cabinet. It seems you need a third cable to act as an intermediary as such: Small metal box / +----------+ "A" cable / | RA81 |----------[]*---| | Drive |----------[]* | <--- New THIRD ("external?") cable +----------+ "B" cable | / Larger metal box / / | / |-*[]_________ *[]_________\ *[]_________\\ <- Four (4) Cable groups *[]_________\\\ \\\\ ---------- | UDA50 | | | ---------- Is that right? If so, where can I find one of these external cables and/or is it possible to manufacture one from a bit of ribbon cable an a couple of commonly available plugs? The sockets denoted by "*" appear to be AMD bastardizations of common PC board plugs like the ones one would find connecting a console port plug. Thanks! greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg(a)ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18

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[pups] c68 compiler for PDP-11?

by Warren Toomey

Before I dive in and attempt this, has anybody ported the c68 C compiler to the PDP-11 family? http://www.itimpi.freeserve.co.uk/compsrc.htm Cheers, Warren

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[pups] Building v6 on a PDP-11/34

by Ian King

I'd been having a weird problem trying to compile mkconf.c, as a first step toward rebuilding 6th Ed, and someone suggested that it might be a memory problem. I dug out the XXDP disks I have, ran some diagnostics, and discovered that my illusions about my memory were ill-founded. :-) Fortunately, I had another MOS memory card, which I configured and installed. Now cc completes with no problems, and I rebuilt the system! It was weird that the system seemed to run fine, but a defect somewhere in the second 64k was causing a failure in cc. Of course, there's always a challenge. Now I'm trying to build/install a filesystem on my big Plessey DD-11/80 drives; they seem something like an RP04, and use the CDC 9877 diskpacks, if anyone's heard of them. I built my kernel using the hp driver, and that doesn't seem to work with it. -- Ian

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Re: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Mar 7, 7:59, Gregory R. Travis wrote: > Thought about that too but the math doesn't work. 40+64 chips = 104 > chips * 65536 bits per chip = 6815744 total bits. > > 6815744 doesn't divide cleanly by any of 9, 18, 19, 36, or 38 It divides by 13, though (64K x 13 x 8, so the prime factors are 2 and 13). Unlikely as it sounds, could this be for a 12-bit word machine? 13 is not only 12+1, it's 8+5. 5 is a common number of bits for ECC (though not, I admit, for 8-bit words! Usually it's 8+3, 16+5, or 16+6). It also strikes me as odd that a NatSemi board should have TI chips on it. NatSemi made their own RAM, and Texas made their own PDP-11 and Vax memory boards. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York

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RE: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system

by Fred N. van Kempen

Greg, > Thought about that too but the math doesn't work. 40+64 chips = 104 > chips * 65536 bits per chip = 6815744 total bits. > > 6815744 doesn't divide cleanly by any of 9, 18, 19, 36, or 38 Right... 12 bits of ECC seems a bit much. Dunno what that stuff is about... weird! ;) Fred ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA27971 for pups-liszt; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:20:35 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Thu Mar 8 07:15:48 2001 Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA27966 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:20:30 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl@localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA15151; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:15:48 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:15:48 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Message-Id: <200103072115.NAA15151(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> To: greg(a)ciswired.com, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:07:00 -0500 (EST) > From: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com> > To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > Subject: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system > > > p.s. The Nat. Semi board is a bit strange. It has an area of > 16x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e 64x64k/8 = .5MB) and another > area of 10x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e. .3MB). No matter > what I do, I can't do the math to get this board to > fit into a 256/512/1MB size. I ASSUME it's a .5MB > board, but what about the extra chips? Nat.Semi. used to make ECC memory boards for the PDP11. I had one once, it looks like you have one now. My arithmetic says 5 extra bits per 8-bit byte makes for single-error correcting, dual-error detecting ECC on the byte level. Vaxes do it with 39 bits per 32-bit word, Alphas do it with 72 bits per 64-bit word. Economy of scale. As I remember, you could just ignore the ECC and it would work like a standard parity memory board, except that it very rarely had any parity errors. carl carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA32608 for pups-liszt; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:55:06 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

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Re: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Mar 6, 20:07, Gregory R. Travis wrote: The three RL02s also all accept power and come on. However, they > all illuminate their fault light when power is applied. I cannot > remember if RL02s will do this when not connected to their > controller - anyone? Yes, that's what happens if either the terminator or the controller is not connected. > p.s. The Nat. Semi board is a bit strange. It has an area of > 16x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e 64x64k/8 = .5MB) and another > area of 10x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e. .3MB). No matter > what I do, I can't do the math to get this board to > fit into a 256/512/1MB size. I ASSUME it's a .5MB > board, but what about the extra chips? Is it ECC memory? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA25238 for pups-liszt; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 00:04:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com> Wed Mar 7 22:59:46 2001 Received: from goby.ciswired.com (IDENT:root@goby.ciswired.com [206.97.67.65]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA25234 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 00:04:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from greg(a)ciswired.com) Received: from weasel.ciswired.com (root(a)weasel.ciswired.com [206.97.67.73]) by goby.ciswired.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id HAA21274; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 07:51:29 -0500 Received: from localhost (greg@localhost) by weasel.ciswired.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA21599; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 07:59:46 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: weasel.ciswired.com: greg owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 07:59:46 -0500 (EST) From: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com> To: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system In-Reply-To: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32D32(a)mwnt4.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103070756400.21204-100000(a)weasel.ciswired.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Wed, 7 Mar 2001, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > Hi, > > > p.s. The Nat. Semi board is a bit strange. It has an area of > > 16x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e 64x64k/8 = .5MB) and another > > area of 10x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e. .3MB). No matter > > what I do, I can't do the math to get this board to > > fit into a 256/512/1MB size. I ASSUME it's a .5MB > > board, but what about the extra chips? > > FastECC or parity, most likely... usually two or three bits per > word... 256K x 18. Thought about that too but the math doesn't work. 40+64 chips = 104 chips * 65536 bits per chip = 6815744 total bits. 6815744 doesn't divide cleanly by any of 9, 18, 19, 36, or 38 greg Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg(a)ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18

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Re: [pups] Half Inch Tape

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Mar 6, 11:46, robin.birch(a)postoffice.co.uk wrote: > > > Dear All, > I am after some reels of 0.5 inch tape and some spare write protect rings in the > UK. Can anyone help? I may have one or two spare reels, and I certainly have quite a few spare write rings. How many are you looking for? Does it matter if they're in Wright-line seals, canisters, or autoload collars? Contact me off-list to give me your address. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21660 for pups-liszt; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:11:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com> Wed Mar 7 11:07:00 2001 Received: from goby.ciswired.com (IDENT:root@goby.ciswired.com [206.97.67.65]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21656 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:11:41 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from greg(a)ciswired.com) Received: from weasel.ciswired.com (root(a)weasel.ciswired.com [206.97.67.73]) by goby.ciswired.com (8.8.7/8.8.7) with ESMTP id TAA17670 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 19:58:44 -0500 Received: from localhost (greg@localhost) by weasel.ciswired.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18990 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:07:00 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: weasel.ciswired.com: greg owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:07:00 -0500 (EST) From: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103061953490.18931-100000(a)weasel.ciswired.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk MANY thanks to all who responded to my questions regarding the PDP-11 equipment I recently acquired. I believe that I am well on my way to being able to build a fairly substantial operating 11/44 museum piece. I was able to open up the three RA81s and inspect them. Luckily their heads had all been locked in place. Unfortunately, the belt release on all were still set in "tension." Hopefully this will be a minor issue. I powered up the RA81s, all power up and start spinning the platters. I have not allowed any of them to rotate fast enough to load the heads though - I want to do a good cleaning first and get them situated in their cabinets. The three RL02s also all accept power and come on. However, they all illuminate their fault light when power is applied. I cannot remember if RL02s will do this when not connected to their controller - anyone? Finally, I have two 1MB Standard Memories memory boards, a 256K Standard Memories board, 2 DEC 256K memory boards, 1 DEC 1MB memory board, and 1 512K National Semiconductor memory board (see below). All these are 11/44 memories. Does anyone have CSR/etc. DIP switch settings for the Standard Memories and/or Nat. Semi boards? I can't find anything on the 'net and I have no other documentation. Thanks! greg p.s. The Nat. Semi board is a bit strange. It has an area of 16x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e 64x64k/8 = .5MB) and another area of 10x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e. .3MB). No matter what I do, I can't do the math to get this board to fit into a 256/512/1MB size. I ASSUME it's a .5MB board, but what about the extra chips? Gregory Travis Cornerstone Information Systems ATS greg(a)ciswired.com 812 330 4361 ext. 18 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA21918 for pups-liszt; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:58:04 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Mar 7 11:53:21 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA21914 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:58:01 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f271rL837045 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:53:21 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200103070153.f271rL837045(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] Fred's Ultrix-11 now in the UNIX Archive To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:53:21 +1100 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article <7263E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC30A8A9F(a)mwnt4.microwalt.nl>, "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)MicroWalt.NL> writes: > Here is a quick snippet I just wrote up while loading my distribution on > a test system. This file will be cleaned up, > enriched and so on and included in the next release. > Fred The UNIX Archive now has Fred's distributions and his setup.txt in the PDP-11/Distributions/dec/Fred-Ultrix3 directory: total 17328 -rw-r--r-- 1 wkt pupsarc 892 Mar 7 01:30 README.ult11-3.0 -rw-r--r-- 1 wkt pupsarc 1663 Mar 6 12:36 README.ult11-3.1 -rw-r--r-- 1 wkt pupsarc 25497 Mar 7 12:53 setup-3.1.txt -rw-r--r-- 1 wkt pupsarc 6680997 Mar 7 06:33 ult11-3.0-kit.tar.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 wkt pupsarc 10988112 Mar 7 06:52 ult11-3.1-kit.tar.gz http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS/archive_access.html Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA23916 for pups-liszt; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:59:37 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> Wed Mar 7 18:54:48 2001 Received: from Tempo.Update.UU.SE (IDENT:0@Tempo.Update.UU.SE [130.238.19.17]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA23912 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:59:31 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from bqt(a)update.uu.se) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Tempo.Update.UU.SE (8.11.2/8.11.2/Update-Iltempogigante) with ESMTP id f278smE17031; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:54:48 +0100 Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:54:48 +0100 (CET) From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> To: "Gregory R. Travis" <greg(a)ciswired.com> cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Spares, et. al for 11/44 system In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10103061953490.18931-100000(a)weasel.ciswired.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103070953570.28370-100000(a)Tempo.Update.UU.SE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Tue, 6 Mar 2001, Gregory R. Travis wrote: > The three RL02s also all accept power and come on. However, they > all illuminate their fault light when power is applied. I cannot > remember if RL02s will do this when not connected to their > controller - anyone? Yes, they will turn on the fault light if not connected to a controller. > p.s. The Nat. Semi board is a bit strange. It has an area of > 16x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e 64x64k/8 = .5MB) and another > area of 10x4 TI 64K-bit chips (i.e. .3MB). No matter > what I do, I can't do the math to get this board to > fit into a 256/512/1MB size. I ASSUME it's a .5MB > board, but what about the extra chips? ECC? Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA23981 for pups-liszt; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 20:07:47 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 2 months

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[pups] Half Inch Tape

by robin.birch＠postoffice.co.uk

Dear All, I am after some reels of 0.5 inch tape and some spare write protect rings in the UK. Can anyone help? Regards Robin

24 years, 2 months

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Re: [pups] Parts sources, etc.

by SHOPPA＠trailing-edge.com

> 2. Peanut lamps for the RL02s and RA81s. I assume they're the > same lamp for both drives. These are the lamps that go behind the > front-panel switches and indicators (e.g. Load/Ready/Write Protect/etc.) > I pulled one lamp and it was marked CM73ENG. A search on Goodle > for this pulls up nothing. RL02's and RA81's use different bulbs; the #73 is for the RL02, and is 14V. The #86 is for the RA8n, and is 6.30V. You can put the #86 in a RL02, and while it will be real bright, the lifetime will be measured in hours. Put the #73 in a RA8n and it will be dim, but at least it'll last a while :-). These bulbs are readily available in the US from most "old-line" electronics distributors. Mail order places that stock them are Newark and Mouser; the relevant Newark URL's are http://search.newark.com/part_detail.phtml?PART%5FID=250&VID=250&10005=50N8… and http://search.newark.com/part_detail.phtml?PART%5FID=250&VID=250&10005=50N8… If you're going to be doing this a lot, you ought to find yourself a bulb puller. Getting those bulbs in and out of recessed sockets is a whole lot easier with such a tool! Tim. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA17861 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 23:02:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 2 months

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Re: [pups] Parts sources, etc.

by pete＠dunnington.u-net.com

On Mar 5, 11:52, Gregory R. Travis wrote: > I need sources for the following, can anyone suggest good starting points? > > 1. Unit select plugs for the RL02s. All the plugs I have are "0", > I'd like to be able to use more than one RL02 on the system if need be. I had a similar problem -- several RL02s but the plugs were for units 0 and 1 ("And sometimes we didn't even have ones. I wrote an entire database using only zeros." "You had zeros? We had to use the letter 'O'.") The switches are standard Honeywell AML series, so you might be able to get plugs for them frm a Honeywell supplier -- but don't hold your breath. Each plug has a finger on each side (and a "key" on top). The upper and lower edge of each finger activates (or not) a contact in the housing. I used matchsticks to work out what lengths were required before I saw real plugs. Of course, I wouldn't recommend using matchsticks except in an emergency but you could do what I did, and make your own plugs. I made mine from thin Perspex (Lucite), each from five pieces glued together to make a box. The "code" is: Unit upper left lower left upper right lower right 0 short short short long 1 short short long* long 2 long long short long 3 long long long* long The ones I've marked "long*" go the full length of the finger, with just a small bevel to make insertion easier. > 2. Peanut lamps for the RL02s and RA81s. I assume they're the > same lamp for both drives. These are the lamps that go behind the > front-panel switches and indicators (e.g. Load/Ready/Write Protect/etc.) > I pulled one lamp and it was marked CM73ENG. A search on Goodle > for this pulls up nothing. They're standard T1 1/2 wedge-base bulbs (5mm dia x 18mm long), but to be authentic you should use 14V bulbs rather than the more common 12V ones. 12V ones will burn out relatively quickly. > 3. New, or good substitutes, for the coarse air filters used behind > the 11/44 front panel as well as behind the RA81 front panels. The > ones that I have are literally crumbling apart. The best thing I've found is the synthetic open-weave fibrous mat used in domestic cooker hoods and the like. I get mine from the local hardware shop; it's very cheap. It comes in at least two thicknesses; if the stuff you find is too thick, you can peel it apart as if it were layered. Can't help with the rest, I'm afraid. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager Dept. of Computer Science University of York Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA13884 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:00:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> Tue Mar 6 07:48:34 2001 Received: from mwnt5.microwalt.nl (mwnt5.microwalt.nl [195.86.89.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13877 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 08:59:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl) Received: from mwnt4.microwalt.nl (unverified) by mwnt5.microwalt.nl (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id <T0a005f26521d69c64a(a)mwnt5.microwalt.nl> for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:53:09 +0000 Received: by mwnt4.microwalt.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <FQJ8RBFP>; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:48:36 +0100 Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32D19(a)mwnt4.microwalt.nl> From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: [pups] DEC ULTRIX-11 V3.1 bin/src install kit Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 22:48:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk All, As a part of my efforts to create an enhanced version of the Ultrix-11 Unix distribution that can be used on PDP-11's, I started out with creating a kit that has all the parts and which can be used to create a bootable installation tape from which you can install it on a machine. I am uploading "ultrix11-v3.1-kit.tar.gz" to PUPS as we speak. A README file is included, as contains the following: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - DEC ULTRX-11 V3.1 Master Distribution Kit This directory contains the files needed to build a complete installation kit of version 3.1 of the ULTRIX-11 Unix system for the DEC PDP-11. Version 3.1 was also the final release; no more development was done after, as UEG shifted its focus to the new VAX systems. Ultrix effectively was ported to the VAX. and called Ultrix-32. Later releases were called either Ultrix/VAX or Ultrix/RISC, depending on which DEC platform it was for. This distribution contains files from both the V3.1 binary kit (dug up by Wilko Bulte), the V3.1 source kit from Steven Schultz, and some other tools and files grabbed from anywhere. The kit is basically a regeneratable V3.1 binary boot kit, with the official SRCKIT added to it (as tape file 35). The top-level "build" script does what it says.. it builds the tape so you can start it up and go to get some sleep :) To get the ball rolling, check the value of the TAPE variable at the top of the "build" script. It is set to what MY tape device (TK50 on TQK50 controller) under Ultrix-11 V3.1 is, so you may have to change it. Then, type ./build and watch things go. After about two hours of tape activity, you should be woken up by two BEEPs telling you that it is all done. Unload the tape and you're all set. Extreme thanks go to Wilko and Steven for digging up this stuff; to Bill Gunshannon, Ed "The Wanderer", Kees Stravers and Warren Toomey for their support while I was fighting hardware problems and debug weird software issues. Thanks guys!! If you run into problems, drop me a note! Have fun ! Fred N. van Kempen, <fred(a)microwalt.nl> March 5th, 2001 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- - Upcoming release of this kit will contain, amongst other things: - VTserver 2.0 support (you can install the tape off a virtual tape server!!) - TDF 1.0 (Tape Dump Format) file support for archiving tape dumps - My TCP/IP "fromto" network pipe program - C-Kermit, compress/uncompress - more documentation - more network stuff - my RX50 boot/rescue diskette set (2 RX50's.. neat!) Watch this space for more.... Warren: expect about 38MB of stuff to drop into your mailbox tonight... Cheers, Fred -- Fred N. van Kempen Fred.van.Kempen(a)MicroWalt.NL Microsoft MCSE+I/MCSE/MCSD Compaq ASE/ACT UNIX Systems Programmer Cisco ACRC/CCDA/CCNA/SupportPro InterNetworking en Network Security Consultant MicroWalt Corporation (Netherlands), Korte Heul 95, 1403 ND BUSSUM Phone +31 (35) 6980059 FAX +31 (35) 6980215 http://WWW.MicroWalt.NL/ Dit bericht en eventuele bijlagen is uitsluitend bestemd voor de geadresseerde. Openbaarmaking, vermenigvuldiging, verspreiding aan derden is niet toegestaan. Er wordt geen verantwoordelijkheid genomen voor de juiste en volledige overbrenging van de inhoud van dit bericht, noch voor de tijdige ontvangst ervan. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA14147 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 09:46:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 2 months

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[pups] Us vs. Museums

by Jeffrey S. Sharp

I don't know everyone's perspective on this issue, and it would be good to hear some alternate viewpoints. Basically, I am against people giving classic computers in working condition to museums. Instead, I believe that they should donate or sell their machines to enthusiasts who will play with them and learn things. A while back, I ran across a person that had some hardware I wanted. He was torn between selling it to me and giving it to a museum. I didn't have a lot of money available to give him, and donation to a museum (a nonprofit) would get him an impressive tax deduction. I did some research about what it takes to start a nonprofit organization, but it looked too expensive (lawyers) and time-consuming to be a viable option for me. I sent the following argument to him: > While I would love to establish a collection of these machines, > I'm definitely not a 'collector' as the term has come to mean > today; I'm not in it to get something rare, to make money, or > to have some pretty decorations in my house. While it would > certainly be nice to have a pretty system, my priority is to > get something that I can learn with. I want to *run* these > machines. I want to *explore* these machines. I want to *hack* > on these machines, to see what unexpected things they can be > coerced into doing. I want to get as close as I can to the > *experience* of computing in these machines' era. If these > machines go to a museum, they're just pretty art, and they will > educate _no_one_. They will sit behind glass walls, no one > ever will touch them again, and no one will ever turn them on or > keep them in working order. They are effectively lost. That's > little better then scrapping them, and you _KNOW_ how you feel > about that! What do you think about this? (BTW, if anyone wants to use the quoted paragraph, they are free to) -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss(a)ou.edu -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/MU d-@ s-:+ a-- C+++(++++) UB+++$> P+ L+(++) E> W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$ !O M(-) !V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5 X(+) R++ tv+ b+ DI++(+++) D+ G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

24 years, 2 months

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[pups] Introducing myself (long)

by Jeffrey S. Sharp

Hello there! I just subscribed to the list, so I thought a message of introduction would be in order. That, and I've got about 1.3 sagans of questions to ask :). First, here is a little about myself and why I'm here. I'm 22 years old. I go to school at the University of Oklahoma, majoring in CS, and work as an embedded programmer. My religion, if one exists, consists of the many tenets and folkloric tales of programming. So here I am, 22; what am I doing asking about PDP-11s and their Unices? Well, I'm hyperinterested in the history of computing, especially that history that constitues the minicomputer era. I guess I arrived at this state by the following path: Birth -> TRS80 -> MSDOS/Windows -> Unix -> Folklore -> Obsession The obsession state has grown to the point that I *must* obtain a PDP-11 and learn everything I can about it, lest all the remaining ones be usurped by museums, to forever lie derelict behind glass walls where no one can ever play with them, gain knowledge from them, or truly appreciate them again. I don't want to build an enormous collection -- just one or two that I can keep in working order. My purpose is intellectual exploration. I have to *experience* what computing was like in my favorite era, and this is the only way, since unfortunately, I was not born 30 years earlier. Finding PDP-11 hardware, while somewhat difficult, is not the prime problem. *What* hardware do I find? I can find out via the Internet the basics of what hardware exists, but the information stops rather short of being complete. I need the following questions answered: * A kind person has offered to sell me an 11/70 (my first choice) system with a TE16 and TM03. What does the tape drive look like? * The TM03 is described as a 'formatter'. Does 'format' in this case mean 'prepare the tape for use' like a low-level PC hard drive format, or is it some other meaning? What does the TM03 look like? * 'Setting up Unix - Sixth Edition' says that you can install from a TU10 or TU16. Does this mean that the TE16 would be out of the question? How is a TE16 different from a TU16? * I want to run V6 on 3 to 4 RK05s. How many can be put into a system? I need a RK11-D controller for this, right? * Can V7 fit on 3 to 4 RK05s? * What range of PDP-11 BSD versions will fit comfortably on 3 to 4 RK05s? * Look at the middle rack in the following picture. Are those RK05f drives? http://www.telnet.hu/hamster/pdp-11/kepek/pdp11-70.jpg * From what I can tell, 2.11BSD needs a bit more disk space than RK05s can offer. Are there any drives that are big enough but still adhere to the older black color scheme? (Superficial, I know, but I want my system to be pretty. I don't know how well a white RA81 would fit in with everything else... :) * What kind of controller would one of the above drives need? * The 11/70 system in question had its front panel replaced with a Datasystem 570 panel at some point. How hard would it be to find an original 11/70 front panel to put back on it? Whew! I think that's all for the moment. All responses are appreciated. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss(a)ou.edu -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/MU d-@ s-:+ a-- C+++(++++) UB+++$> P+ L+(++) E> W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$ !O M(-) !V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5 X(+) R++ tv+ b+ DI++(+++) D+ G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA97068 for pups-liszt; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 22:05:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> Sat Mar 3 21:00:58 2001 Received: from Tempo.Update.UU.SE (IDENT:0@Tempo.Update.UU.SE [130.238.19.17]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA97064 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 22:05:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from bqt(a)update.uu.se) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Tempo.Update.UU.SE (8.11.2/8.11.2/Update-Iltempogigante) with ESMTP id f23B0xk06171; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:00:59 +0100 Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:00:58 +0100 (CET) From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> To: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" <jss(a)ou.edu> cc: PUPS Mailing List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Introducing myself (long) In-Reply-To: <983566209.3aa007815112f(a)email.ou.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103031154420.6027-100000(a)Tempo.Update.UU.SE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Fri, 2 Mar 2001, Jeffrey S. Sharp wrote: > Hello there! I just subscribed to the list, so I thought a message of > introduction would be in order. That, and I've got about 1.3 sagans of > questions to ask :). Nice to hear from ya. Ask as much as you feel like. I might also point out the info-pdp11 list, which harbours all kind of pdp-11 fanatics, not just the unix types. :-) > * A kind person has offered to sell me an 11/70 (my first > choice) system with a TE16 and TM03. What does the tape drive look like? First of all 11/70s are nice machines. But expect to use a soldering iron once in a while, and try to get some spare cards. Also, I hope you have a large house, and *lots* of electricity... The TE16 is an upright standing drive with vaccum colons. It's a normal full height 19" cabinet. > * The TM03 is described as a 'formatter'. Does 'format' in this case > mean 'prepare the tape for use' like a low-level PC hard drive format, or is it > some other meaning? What does the TM03 look like? The TM03 is a formatter in the sense that it interfaces to the massbus on one side, and to a pertec "unformatted" interface on the other side. It's a "small" box that resides in the lower part of the TE16 cabinet. You normally won't ever look at it, except when it breakes. > * 'Setting up Unix - Sixth Edition' says that you can install from a TU10 or > TU16. Does this mean that the TE16 would be out of the question? How is a > TE16 different from a TU16? They don't differ. > * I want to run V6 on 3 to 4 RK05s. How many can be put into a system? I need > a RK11-D controller for this, right? I think each RK11-D can control up to eight drives. > * From what I can tell, 2.11BSD needs a bit more disk space than RK05s can > offer. Are there any drives that are big enough but still adhere to the older > black color scheme? (Superficial, I know, but I want my system to be pretty. > I don't know how well a white RA81 would fit in with everything else... :) If you want the "look", you should go with RP06 drives. They fit 2.11, they are supported, and they are "pretty". However, they *do* require 3-phase power, they stand on their own at the floor, and they are *heavy*. In exact numbers, an RP06 holds 176MB. All "newer" drives are the off-white that DEC adopted. > * What kind of controller would one of the above drives need? RA81: UDA-50 RP06: Massbus (RH70 in your case) > * The 11/70 system in question had its front panel replaced with a Datasystem > 570 panel at some point. How hard would it be to find an original 11/70 front > panel to put back on it? Could be tricky... Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA98856 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 04:10:41 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Jeffrey S. Sharp" <jss(a)ou.edu> Sun Mar 4 03:06:16 2001 Received: from iris.services.ou.edu (iris.services.ou.edu [129.15.2.125]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA98852 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 04:10:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from jss(a)iris.services.ou.edu) Received: from iris.services.ou.edu by iris.services.ou.edu (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) id <0G9M00M01SUGQO(a)iris.services.ou.edu> for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 11:06:17 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 11:06:16 -0600 (CST) From: "Jeffrey S. Sharp" <jss(a)ou.edu> Subject: Re: [pups] Introducing myself (long) In-reply-to: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103031154420.6027-100000(a)Tempo.Update.UU.SE> X-Originating-IP: 65.26.237.187 To: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> Cc: PUPS Mailing List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-id: <983639176.3aa12488adff1(a)email.ou.edu> Organization: The University of Oklahoma MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT User-Agent: IMP/PHP IMAP webmail program 2.2.0 References: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0103031154420.6027-100000(a)Tempo.Update.UU.SE> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > > Hello there! > > Nice to hear from ya. Ask as much as you feel like. I might also > point out the info-pdp11 list, which harbours all kind of pdp-11 > fanatics, not just the unix types. :-) Thanks for that. > > * A kind person has offered to sell me an 11/70 > > First of all 11/70s are nice machines. But expect to use a > soldering iron once in a while, and try to get some spare cards. > Also, I hope you have a large house, and *lots* of electricity.. I'm not afraid of a little soldering. My current plan to ready my house for the machine is as follows. First, I have a wood floor that's suspended above the ground by various things in the crawlspace. I'll have to get down there and add some extra bracing where the machine will be. I'll lay a solid slab of strong wood on top of the floor to spread the weight out. Second, I'll have an electrician install the necessary power circuit. My ballpark figures tell me that I need capacity for 8-10kW. My house is small, but big enough for the 11/70. In a year or so I will be building a new house, complete with its own machine room. > The TM03 is a formatter in the sense that it interfaces to the > massbus on one side, and to a pertec "unformatted" interface on > the other side. I figured it might me something like that. > If you want the "look", you should go with RP06 drives. They fit > 2.11, they are supported, and they are "pretty". However, they > *do* require 3-phase power, they stand on their own at the floor, > and they are *heavy*. In exact numbers, an RP06 holds 176MB. Ah, a washing machine. I don't have room for it now (well, not where the machine will be), but I will in the new house. I've found a person that might sell me a RA81 to use until then. > > * The 11/70 system in question had its front panel replaced > > with a Datasystem 570 panel at some point. How hard would it > > be to find an original 11/70 front panel to put back on it? > > Could be tricky... Hm. I'd better start looking now. Thanks for your response. You have been extremely helpful. -- Jeffrey S. Sharp jss(a)ou.edu -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----- Version 3.12 GCS/MU d-@ s-:+ a-- C+++(++++) UB+++$> P+ L+(++) E> W++ N+(++) o? K? w++$ !O M(-) !V PS+++ PE Y+ PGP t+ 5 X(+) R++ tv+ b+ DI++(+++) D+ G++ e> h--- r+++ y+++ ------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA98938 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 04:28:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Lars J. Buitinck" <lars(a)fwn.rug.nl> Sun Mar 4 03:22:10 2001 Received: from smtp.hccnet.nl (smtp.hccnet.nl [193.172.127.93]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA98934 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 04:28:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from lars(a)fwn.rug.nl) Received: from fwn.rug.nl by smtp.hccnet.nl via uds236-119.dial.hccnet.nl [193.173.119.236] with ESMTP for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> id SAA05813 (8.8.5/1.13); Sat, 3 Mar 2001 18:24:06 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3AA12842.6E3EA0E8(a)fwn.rug.nl> Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 18:22:10 +0100 From: "Lars J. Buitinck" <lars(a)fwn.rug.nl> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: nl,nl-BE,en,en-US,en-GB,af,de-DE,de-AT,de-CH,fr,fr-FR,fr-BE,fr-CA MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Introducing myself (long) References: <983566209.3aa007815112f(a)email.ou.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk This seems like the perfect opportunity to introduce myself : ) Thank you Jeffrey. Lars Buitinck, 17 years old, student (high school, final year), UNIX fanatic, living in the Netherlands, looking for a reasonable PDP-11 (ie., one that can run 2.11BSD). MrBill (the owner of pdp11.org) knew where I could find an 11/73 and an 11/83 but both had to be shipped all the way from the US, both only had one RL02 disk drive, and only one had a tape drive. So does anybody know where I can find a reasonably modern, moderately sized 11, preferably from NL, DE or BE, with some reasonably large disks (some 50-60 MB minimum, I guess)? A tape drive would be nice... unless I can borrow one? I don't really care about the colour, as long as it works ; ) PS.: FYI, I speak English (obviously) and Dutch (again, obviously), and I understand French and German well enough, but please don't expect me to mail in French or German. "Jeffrey S. Sharp" wrote: > > Hello there! I just subscribed to the list, so I thought a message of > introduction would be in order. That, and I've got about 1.3 sagans of > questions to ask :). ... > The obsession state has grown to the point that I *must* obtain a PDP-11 Man, do I know that feeling > unfortunately, I was not born 30 years earlier. If you think you had bad luck, I was born 35 years too late. ; ) -- If I traveled to the end of the rainbow As Dame Fortune did intend, Murphy would be there to tell me The pot's at the other end. -- Bert Whitney Lars J. Buitinck

24 years, 2 months

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[pups] TS05

by robin.birch＠postoffice.co.uk

Dear All, I now have one of these but the tape hub locking mechanism is acting up. Has anyone got a set of the maintenance docs for a TS05 that they can scan for me? Regards Robin

24 years, 2 months

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Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.

by jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de

On 26 Feb, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > I suspect that one of the switches enables the line frequency clock. > With out a clock running things will work (at least minimally) as > long as there are some interrupts happening. Hmm? Why will it run with_out_ a clock? >> OK. The machine is currently un-tar-ing /usr... :-))) > > Fantastic! The next adventure is un-tar-ing the source and build my own kernel... -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA71575 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:28:19 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Wed Feb 28 13:24:22 2001 Received: from psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au [129.78.83.26]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA71571 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:28:17 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from johnh(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from johnh@localhost) by psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id OAA16488 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:24:22 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:24:22 +1100 (EST) From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102280324.OAA16488(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6? Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > The good news is, this fixed my ps problem - ps now works. The bad news > is that cc still fails with the following error: > > fFatal error in /lib/c0 > > The lowercase f appears, followed shortly by the rest of the line. I've > tried the -c option to suppress linking, and still get this error. I > don't get this error on the Supnik emulator. '/lib/c0' is the first pass of the C compiler, after the preprocessor has be run (the order is cc, c0, c1, c2 for the optimiser, and then 'as' to produce the object file). I dimly recall that the various passes forked by 'cc' didn't bother to catch signals, so any error just gives the "Fatal error in ..." message. The '-c' would have no effect this early. You could try the '-f' option, that uses a different compiler (with FP emulation). Assuming that you don't have a corrupted binary, or faulty processor/memory, then is one obscure possibility. While a user program will not see any difference between a 11/34 and 11/40 (except for floating point instructions), the behaviour after a memory management fault IS different. The non ID space processors (11/23/34/35/40/60) don't have a register to record the changes in the general cpu registers after a fault, and it has to be calculated in software. The 34 and 40 leave the registers in different states after a fault. The classic example is "cmp -(sp), -(sp)" to extend the stack. This may generate a fault because the stack needs to grow dynamically. The kernel extends the stack (where automatic variables are allocated), and then attempts to reexecute the instruction. In the case of a 34 using a standard m40.s, it sometimes gets it wrong, and is very program and data dependent. Does this ring any bells with people having ported unix to 11/34's? Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA71920 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:58:47 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Feb 28 13:54:49 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA71916 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:58:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f1S3soX00509; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:54:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102280354.f1S3soX00509(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? In-Reply-To: <200102280324.OAA16488(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> from John Holden at "Feb 28, 2001 02:24:22 pm" To: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:54:49 +1100 (EST) CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by John Holden: > > The good news is, this fixed my ps problem - ps now works. The bad news > > is that cc still fails with the following error: > > fFatal error in /lib/c0 > > Assuming that you don't have a corrupted binary, or faulty processor/memory, > then is one obscure possibility. While a user program will not see any > difference between a 11/34 and 11/40 (except for floating point instructions), > the behaviour after a memory management fault IS different. The non ID space > processors (11/23/34/35/40/60) don't have a register to record the changes > in the general cpu registers after a fault, and it has to be calculated in > software. The 34 and 40 leave the registers in different states after a fault. > >The classic example is "cmp -(sp), -(sp)" to extend the stack.This may generate > a fault because the stack needs to grow dynamically. The kernel extends the > stack (where automatic variables are allocated), and then attempts to > reexecute the instruction. In the case of a 34 using a standard m40.s, > it sometimes gets it wrong, and is very program and data dependent. > > Does this ring any bells with people having ported unix to 11/34's? That comment made me go through and scan my old AUUGNs for some articles written by Dave Horsfall [who is on this mailing list]. I found his article on porting V6 to the 11/23, but not for a port to the 11/34. However, at least two tar files in the UNIX Archive have an m34.s in them: Applications/Shoppa_Tapes/usenix_80_delaware.gz: delaware/maryland/os40/m34.s Applications/Shoppa_Tapes/usenix_80_delaware.gz:m34.s: toronto/case/sys/conf/m34.s The first appears to be modifications to V6, I haven't checked the latter yet. It may be something worth pursuing. Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA71947 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:01:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Wed Feb 28 13:53:22 2001 Received: from fgh.geac.com.au ([203.32.189.101]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA71943 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:01:05 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave(a)horsfall.org) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by fgh.geac.com.au (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1S3rNj29913; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:53:23 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 14:53:22 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> X-X-Sender: <dave(a)fgh.au.geac.com> To: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> cc: <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6? In-Reply-To: <200102280324.OAA16488(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102281452230.2716-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> X-No-Archive: Yes X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?" X-Witty-Saying: "Mobius Strip - See other side for instructions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, John Holden wrote: > The classic example is "cmp -(sp), -(sp)" to extend the stack. This may generate [...] > Does this ring any bells with people having ported unix to 11/34's? I have actual code on how we handled this in those days; who wants it? -- Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490 Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA71965 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:04:34 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Feb 28 14:00:30 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA71961 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:04:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f1S40Uk00578; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:00:30 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102280400.f1S40Uk00578(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102281452230.2716-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> from Dave Horsfall at "Feb 28, 2001 02:53:22 pm" To: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:00:30 +1100 (EST) CC: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Dave Horsfall: > On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, John Holden wrote: > > The classic example is "cmp -(sp), -(sp)" to extend the stack. This may generate > [...] > > Does this ring any bells with people having ported unix to 11/34's? > I have actual code on how we handled this in those days; who wants it? Mail it to me and I'll drop it in the archive somewhere. Thanks Dave! Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA72108 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:19:34 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Feb 28 14:15:34 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA72104 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:19:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f1S4FYA00697; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:15:34 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102280415.f1S4FYA00697(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] V6 or V6 patches for 11/34 In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102281500120.2716-400000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> from Dave Horsfall at "Feb 28, 2001 03:02:28 pm" To: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:15:34 +1100 (EST) CC: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Dave Horsfall: > On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Warren Toomey wrote: > > Mail it to me and I'll drop it in the archive somewhere. > As attached... I see it actually came from ChemEng. It's for the 11/60, > but has the 11/34 stuff in there as well. > > PS: I'm sure I did a port to the 11/34 :-) I have moved the 11/34 patches into the UNIX Archive at PDP-11/Bug_Fixes/V7_on11-34 They look like V7 patches though, so they may not be readily usable on a V6 system. Those other files I mentioned may be better. Your mileage may vary :-) Dave, did you write an AUUGN paper for an 11/34 port, and what year so I can go back and have another look. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA72119 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:19:44 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Wed Feb 28 14:15:46 2001 Received: from psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au [129.78.83.26]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA72114 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:19:42 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from johnh(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from johnh@localhost) by psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id PAA17381 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:15:46 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 15:15:46 +1100 (EST) From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102280415.PAA17381(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs. Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk >John Holden wrote: >> You can run into problems with the BHALT line, which can be asserted by a line >> break on the console line (if enabled), or on some DHV serial card emulations. >> Turning off a terminal may be enough to halt the process if it generates a >> serial break as the power goes down. > >On my /53+ running 2.11, it's enough to kick in ODT.. Very anoying, really. >Is there any way to disable this functionality, save rewiring the backplane? You can usually disable the HALT on break feature. When the console is on a separate serial card :- DEC DLV11-E or F Remove jumper on wire-wrap pin H DEC DLV11-J wire-wrap pins X-B enables boot on break wire-wrap pins X-H enable halt (ODT) on break nothing on X disables both Webster WQDHV switch 4 at J9 OFF to ignore break. For processor cards with serial ports, I only have a manual for 11/23+. DEC is pretty consistent, so there should be options on 11/53 and latter 11/73's. 11/23+ KDF11-B? Remove jumper from J5-J4 and connect J3-J4 The jumpers aren't marked on the PCB, so looking at the board with the Qbus fingers at the bottom, handles at the top, there is a vertical row of three jumpers on the right hand side of the board. towards the bottom. Top to bottom is J5, J4 and J3. If anybody has manuals for 11/53+ and the quad slot 11/73's and can send me the details, I'll collate the information, and add it to my web page at :- http://www.psych.usyd.edu.au/pdp-11/ The 11/53+ I have does have lots of jumpers, but no numbers or letters beside them. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA72755 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:07:01 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Wed Feb 28 15:59:41 2001 Received: from fgh.geac.com.au ([203.32.189.101]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA72751 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 17:06:58 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave(a)horsfall.org) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by fgh.geac.com.au (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1S5xfW00886; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:59:41 +1100 (EST) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:59:41 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> X-X-Sender: <dave(a)fgh.au.geac.com> To: <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> cc: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] Re: V6 or V6 patches for 11/34 In-Reply-To: <200102280415.f1S4FYA00697(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102281656310.2716-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> X-No-Archive: Yes X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?" X-Witty-Saying: "Mobius Strip - See other side for instructions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Wed, 28 Feb 2001, Warren Toomey wrote: > Dave, did you write an AUUGN paper for an 11/34 port, and what year > so I can go back and have another look. Vol 1 No 6. "Implementing UNIX on a PDP-11/34" (sub-titled: "What does the `F' in "RK05-F" really stand for ?"). I still have the nroff source available... It's about 1983-ish. -- Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490 Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA74876 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 00:20:54 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

cabinet issues (Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.)

by jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de

On 27 Feb, John Holden wrote: > On BA-23 boxes, there is a small, two lever DIP switch. [...] Thanks for the enlightening. As we are on the topic cabinets: Can a 11/73 run in a BA21x or BA440 cabinet? > You can run into problems with the BHALT line, which can be asserted by a line > break on the console line [...] That is the reason why I disconnect console terminals bevore I power them off (if there is no break disable switch on the machine). :-) -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA62508 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:24:13 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.

by Tom Ivar Helbekkmo

"Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> writes: > > BTW: What serial parameters does 2.11BSD use? The first time I booted > > UNIX I got garbage after "user mem = 307200". I seted the vt220 to 7e1 > > and this worked, but is it correct? > > Yes, 7e1 is correct - a legacy setting from eons ago. This bothered me enough, a handful years ago, to change things a bit: For getty/main.c: *** main.c.ORIG Thu Dec 29 17:22:13 1994 --- main.c Thu Dec 29 17:21:28 1994 *************** *** 383,391 **** --- 383,393 ---- char c; c = cc; + #ifdef notdef /* hack to get rid of parity in getty */ c |= partab[c&0177] & 0200; if (OP) c ^= 0200; + #endif /* parity hack */ if (!UB) { outbuf[obufcnt++] = c; if (obufcnt >= OBUFSIZ) For pdp/cons.c: *** cons.c.ORIG Sun May 11 11:21:01 1997 --- cons.c Sun May 11 11:26:05 1997 *************** *** 62,68 **** if ((tp->t_state&TS_ISOPEN) == 0) { ttychars(tp); tp->t_state = TS_ISOPEN|TS_CARR_ON; ! tp->t_flags = EVENP|ECHO|XTABS|CRMOD; } if (tp->t_state&TS_XCLUDE && u.u_uid != 0) return (EBUSY); --- 62,68 ---- if ((tp->t_state&TS_ISOPEN) == 0) { ttychars(tp); tp->t_state = TS_ISOPEN|TS_CARR_ON; ! tp->t_flags = ANYP|ECHO|XTABS|CRMOD; } if (tp->t_state&TS_XCLUDE && u.u_uid != 0) return (EBUSY); For sys/tty.c: *** tty.c.ORIG Sun May 11 11:21:40 1997 --- tty.c Sun May 11 11:27:40 1997 *************** *** 48,53 **** --- 48,54 ---- */ char partab[] = { + #ifdef notdef /* even parity setup */ 0001,0201,0201,0001,0201,0001,0001,0201, 0202,0004,0003,0201,0005,0206,0201,0001, 0201,0001,0001,0201,0001,0201,0201,0001, *************** *** 64,69 **** --- 65,88 ---- 0200,0000,0000,0200,0000,0200,0200,0000, 0200,0000,0000,0200,0000,0200,0200,0000, 0000,0200,0200,0000,0200,0000,0000,0201, + #else /* no parity setup follows */ + 0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001, + 0002,0004,0003,0001,0005,0006,0001,0001, + 0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001, + 0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001,0001, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000, + 0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0000,0001, + #endif /* end of parity selection stuff */ /* * 7 bit ascii ends with the last character above, Hmm. It's been a while. I should fire up the old /83 and get all the latest patches from Steven applied, while it's still winter, and I can run it and the VAX without overheating my machine room. :-) -tih -- Popularity is the hallmark of mediocrity. --Niles Crane, "Frasier" Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA62202 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 07:12:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> Wed Feb 28 06:01:50 2001 Received: from mwnt5.microwalt.nl (mwnt5.microwalt.nl [195.86.89.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA62198 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 07:12:41 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl) Received: from mwnt4.microwalt.nl (unverified) by mwnt5.microwalt.nl (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id <T0a005f2651fe222a98(a)mwnt5.microwalt.nl> for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:06:42 +0000 Received: by mwnt4.microwalt.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <FQJ8RA5N>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:01:51 +0100 Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32CC3(a)mwnt4.microwalt.nl> From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> To: "PUPS Mailing List (E-mail)" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] DEC Ultrix-11 V3.1 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:01:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk All, Just a note to let you know that I am making good progress on getting my modified Ultrix-11 V3.1 up and running. I'll be uploading disk images of various MicroPDP-11 (/23, /53, /73, /83) based systems for you to enjoy :) Most of all, I should be able to run TK50 install tapes again as of next week, given my working 11/83 with TK50. Many thanks go to Bill Gunshannon for the initial image (I could not get my boot tapes to work), Warren Toomey for letting me play lots with VTserver and integrating it into Ultrix, Kees Stravers for giving me the hardware I needed, and, of course, to The Wanderer for figuring out my hardware problemns with me :) Cheers, Fred ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA62303 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 07:37:52 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> Wed Feb 28 06:26:56 2001 Received: from mwnt5.microwalt.nl (mwnt5.microwalt.nl [195.86.89.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA62299 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 07:37:47 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl) Received: from mwnt4.microwalt.nl (unverified) by mwnt5.microwalt.nl (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id <T0a005f2651fe392559(a)mwnt5.microwalt.nl> for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:31:48 +0000 Received: by mwnt4.microwalt.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <FQJ8RA5R>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:26:57 +0100 Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32CC4(a)mwnt4.microwalt.nl> From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> To: "'PUPS Mailing List (E-mail)'" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] DEC Ultrix-11 V3.1 part II Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 21:26:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk All, > Many thanks go to ... Blah! And of course to Wilko Bulte, who provided the dumps of the original V3.1 tapes, and with whom I spent quite some time debugging the why-doesn-this-work problems with the initial tape dump files... Fred (compiling stuff on the PDP so he can transfer stuff in and out of the box without having to use the slow VTserver link ;-) ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA62479 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:20:16 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

[pups] Forks under V6

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

I believe the practice John Holden describes from Mini-UNIX (only one process in memory at a time, hence a context switch is the same as a swap) was also part of the very earliest UNIXes, on the PDP-7 and the 11/20, neither of which had hardware memory management. Dennis Ritchie's `Evolution of the UNIX Time-Sharing System' paper (in the October 1984 Bell Labs Technical Journal, the second issue to be devoted entirely to UNIX), tells how it worked in some detail. It wouldn't surprise me if the swap-to-fork mechanism lived on for a while even after the system learned about memory management, but I don't actually know that. (Warren: wbat does the old system you have do?) Anyone who wants to verify what John describes for V6 can look in (among other places) the Lions book; newproc is at line 1826, at the beginning of slp.c. Norman Wilson Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA55770 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:15:35 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Feb 27 10:15:44 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA55766 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:15:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f1R0IOT10330; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:18:24 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102270018.f1R0IOT10330(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Forks under V6 In-Reply-To: <200102262353.KAA55588(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> from Norman Wilson at "Feb 26, 2001 06:49:13 pm" To: Norman Wilson <norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:15:44 +1100 (EST) CC: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Norman Wilson: > I believe the practice John Holden describes from Mini-UNIX (only one > process in memory at a time, hence a context switch is the same as a > swap) was also part of the very earliest UNIXes, on the PDP-7 and the > 11/20, neither of which had hardware memory management. Dennis Ritchie's > `Evolution of the UNIX Time-Sharing System' paper (in the October 1984 > Bell Labs Technical Journal, the second issue to be devoted entirely to > UNIX), tells how it worked in some detail. It wouldn't surprise me if > the swap-to-fork mechanism lived on for a while even after the system > learned about memory management, but I don't actually know that. (Warren: > wbat does the old system you have do?) > Norman Wilson For the versions on the 11/20 [that's V1, V2 and V3], as there was no memory protection, there was only 1 process in core at any time. Thus, the parent was definitely swapped out. The Nsys kernel (just before V4) also swaps the parent out: newproc() { /* * make proc entry for new proc */ /* * swap out old process * to make image of new proc */ } (http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/UnixTree/Nsys/sys/nsys/ken/slp.c.html) We don't have kernel source for V4 :-(. It looks like V5 also swaps the parent out: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/UnixTree/V5/usr/sys/ken/slp.c.html By V6, the parent could stay in core if there was enough room: newproc() { /* * If there is not enough core for the * new process, swap out the current process to generate the * copy. */ if(a2 == NULL) { savu(u.u_ssav); xswap(rpp, 0, 0); } else { /* * There is core, so just copy. */ rpp->p_addr = a2; while(n--) copyseg(a1++, a2++); } u.u_procp = rip; return(0); } (http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/UnixTree/V6/usr/sys/ken/slp.c.html) I've omitted some lines of code here and there. Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA56632 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:06:49 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Tue Feb 27 13:02:55 2001 Received: from psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au [129.78.83.26]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA56628 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:06:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from johnh(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from johnh@localhost) by psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id OAA31721 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:02:55 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:02:55 +1100 (EST) From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102270302.OAA31721(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs. Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On BA-23 boxes, there is a small, two lever DIP switch. Switch 1 in the ON position (down) enables BEVENT on the Qbus. Without it enabled, there will no line time clock interrupts generated, even if the LTC register at 777546 in enabled. The second switch enables the 'restart' button when ON. Pressing 'restart' starts a powerup sequence, running diagnostics and starting ODT or the bootstrap (equivalent to cycling the power). On the earlier BA-11 series boxes for the LSI-11 (and /23), there was an equivalent switch on the front panel labeled "Aux". It could be used either to enable the BEVENT or the remote switch for the cabinet power controller. The 11/23plus, 11/53/73 have programable LTC registers, so the switch is normally left on. On the LSI-11,/2 and early 11/23, you would initially boot the machine with it off, then enable it. As for machines hanging without the LTC running, the problem is that the scheduler (sched) never gets to run, since it sleeps waiting for the 'lbolt' flag that is only ever set in the clock interrupt service routine. The timeout queue also doesn't run, so only the internal 'init' process will ever get to run PS You can run into problems with the BHALT line, which can be asserted by a line break on the console line (if enabled), or on some DHV serial card emulations. Turning off a terminal may be enough to halt the process if it generates a serial break as the power goes down. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA57000 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:58:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Jay Jaeger <cube1(a)home.com> Tue Feb 27 13:50:59 2001 Received: from mail2.rdc1.il.home.com (mail2.rdc1.il.home.com [24.2.1.77]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA56996 for <pups-digest(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 14:58:19 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cube1(a)home.com) Received: from ddjay.home.com ([65.3.254.22]) by mail2.rdc1.il.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010227035419.WQFR26655.mail2.rdc1.il.home.com(a)ddjay.home.com>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:54:19 -0800 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010226213702.04607d00@cirithi> X-Sender: cube1@cirithi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:50:59 -0600 To: pups-digest(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au From: Jay Jaeger <cube1(a)home.com> Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? Cc: kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com, johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au In-Reply-To: <200102262232.JAA55097(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In case someone didn't put 2+2 together... The V6 distribution has various unix kernels. I don't recall for sure which kernel is linked to /unix, but for sure it is only one of them. So, if /rpunix is linked to /unix, and you boot rkunix, and then do a ps, it will search /unix for the symbol for swapdev, look for the RP device in /dev, and not find one. no swap dev. The cure is, of course, quite simple: # chdir / # ln rkunix unix And ps will now work fine. [ Ian might have gotten this directly had he not hidden his real e-mail address... ;-) ] Jay Jaeger At 09:32 AM 2/27/01 +1100, you wrote: >Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 23:49:22 -0800 >From: "Ian King" <iking(a)killthewabbit.org> >Subject: [pups] Swap device in V6? > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C09F85.94050E80 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >I'm working with the install image provided by Ken Wellsch, and when I = >execute the 'ps' command I get an error that says "no swap device". I'm = > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:27:12 -0800 >From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> >Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6? > >I, too, have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed as 0,0. Relaetd to this, ps does something >odd (at least to my experience) with the open() system call - it calls 'open >("/dev")', without a second argument for mode; that seems like a no-no in C, > >- -----Original Message----- >From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] >Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:52 AM >To: Roger Ivie >Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au >Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? > >The "ps" command source appears to be poking around /dev looking for a >block device that matches the kernel value for swapdev (or something like >that) and confirming it is a block device. > >Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps" >still gripes about "no swap device." > >So I'm missing something I guess. > >Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:44:23 +1100 (EST) >From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> >Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? > << snip >> >The 'ps' command looks up the symbol table of the unix kernel, and gets >the device entry for swap (_swapdev), and the process table (_proc) >It would open /dev as file, and read the directory entries to find a matching >device entry, so it then had the name of a device to open (you cannot open >a device based only in the major and minor device entries from a user >process). >It also uses /dev to decode tty entries into names. > >For 'ps' to work correctly, /unix had to be linked to the real kernel, say >rkunix. --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1(a)home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA58909 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 22:07:53 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> Tue Feb 27 21:03:54 2001 Received: from mud.stack.nl (mud.stack.nl [131.155.141.98]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA58905 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 22:07:49 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from martijnb(a)stack.nl) Received: by mud.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 587) id 47EB97F14; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:03:54 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:03:54 +0100 From: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs. Message-ID: <20010227120354.A9872(a)mud.stack.nl> Reply-To: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> References: <200102270302.OAA31721(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.3i In-Reply-To: <200102270302.OAA31721(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au>; from johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au on Tue, Feb 27, 2001 at 02:02:55PM +1100 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk John Holden wrote: > You can run into problems with the BHALT line, which can be asserted by a line > break on the console line (if enabled), or on some DHV serial card emulations. > Turning off a terminal may be enough to halt the process if it generates a > serial break as the power goes down. On my /53+ running 2.11, it's enough to kick in ODT.. Very anoying, really. Is there any way to disable this functionality, save rewiring the backplane? -- Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA61301 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 04:43:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Ian King" <iking(a)microsoft.com> Wed Feb 28 02:56:06 2001 Received: from mail4.microsoft.com (mail4.microsoft.com [131.107.3.122]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA61297 for <pups-digest(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 04:42:46 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.101 by mail4.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:56:20 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: from red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.12.71]) by inet-imc-01.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:55:28 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.4418.65 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:56:06 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEC0A(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [pups] Swap device in V6? Thread-Index: AcCgdE7qokpl8pfARPebGWEtnq6FUgAaQ5uQ From: "Ian King" <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "Jay Jaeger" <cube1(a)home.com>, <pups-digest(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Cc: <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Feb 2001 16:55:28.0605 (UTC) FILETIME=[1670D0D0:01C0A0DE] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au id EAA61298 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk The good news is, this fixed my ps problem - ps now works. The bad news is that cc still fails with the following error: fFatal error in /lib/c0 The lowercase f appears, followed shortly by the rest of the line. I've tried the -c option to suppress linking, and still get this error. I don't get this error on the Supnik emulator. Obviously, one way to do things would be to rebuild the kernel on the emulator, and transfer it to the PDP-11. But that seems like cheating. :-) Besides, the Supnik emulator is just too freeform; my 11/34a doesn't have a half-dozen instructions the emulator implements. I've tried the DBit E11 emulator (since it gives more control over processor features), but I can't get it to boot these images. -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Jay Jaeger [mailto:cube1@home.com] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:51 PM To: pups-digest(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Cc: kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com; johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? In case someone didn't put 2+2 together... The V6 distribution has various unix kernels. I don't recall for sure which kernel is linked to /unix, but for sure it is only one of them. So, if /rpunix is linked to /unix, and you boot rkunix, and then do a ps, it will search /unix for the symbol for swapdev, look for the RP device in /dev, and not find one. no swap dev. The cure is, of course, quite simple: # chdir / # ln rkunix unix And ps will now work fine. [ Ian might have gotten this directly had he not hidden his real e-mail address... ;-) ] Jay Jaeger At 09:32 AM 2/27/01 +1100, you wrote: >Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 23:49:22 -0800 >From: "Ian King" <iking(a)killthewabbit.org> >Subject: [pups] Swap device in V6? > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >- ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C09F85.94050E80 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > >I'm working with the install image provided by Ken Wellsch, and when I = >execute the 'ps' command I get an error that says "no swap device". I'm = > >------------------------------ > >Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:27:12 -0800 >From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> >Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6? > >I, too, have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed as 0,0. Relaetd to this, ps does something >odd (at least to my experience) with the open() system call - it calls 'open >("/dev")', without a second argument for mode; that seems like a no-no in C, > >- -----Original Message----- >From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] >Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:52 AM >To: Roger Ivie >Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au >Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? > >The "ps" command source appears to be poking around /dev looking for a >block device that matches the kernel value for swapdev (or something like >that) and confirming it is a block device. > >Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps" >still gripes about "no swap device." > >So I'm missing something I guess. > >Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:44:23 +1100 (EST) >From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> >Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? > << snip >> >The 'ps' command looks up the symbol table of the unix kernel, and gets >the device entry for swap (_swapdev), and the process table (_proc) >It would open /dev as file, and read the directory entries to find a matching >device entry, so it then had the name of a device to open (you cannot open >a device based only in the major and minor device entries from a user >process). >It also uses /dev to decode tty entries into names. > >For 'ps' to work correctly, /unix had to be linked to the real kernel, say >rkunix. --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1(a)home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA61575 for pups-liszt; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 05:32:00 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Jay Jaeger [mailto:cube1@home.com] Wed Feb 28 04:27:56 2001 Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA61571 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 05:31:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl@localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA16090 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:27:56 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:27:56 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Message-Id: <200102271827.KAA16090(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs. Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Mon Feb 26 13:32 PST 2001 > From: jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de > Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:15:52 +0100 (CET) > Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs. > To: sms(a)moe.2bsd.com > cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > > >> System configuration: > >> 11/73 (M8192), one with FP accel. or one without. (Jumpers W1..W6 in, > >> W7..W9 out, so that the CPU enters ODT at power up.) > > > > There is a jumper (I forget which one) that enables/disables the > > 'halt' instruction. > BINGO! Pulling W5 solved the problem. But then I seted it again to > double check. (I changed location today and took only the cards and > disk with me.) In the "new" BA23 the system runs even with the W5 > jumper installed. Then I noticed the different setting of the front > panel DIP swich. The upper switch is off and the lower on. The switches > of the other cabinet are both on. If I boot the machine with W5 > installed and the upper switch on it hangs. It continues to run > immediately if it is switched off. What is the purpose of this > switches? Quote from _Microcomputer Products Handbook_ EB26078 41/85 (DEC) "Control Panel . . . The 2-position linetime clock (LTC) switch (switch 1) is used to enable or disable the LTC function. Setting switch 1 ON enables the LTC to function under software control. Setting switch 1 to the OFF position disables the LTC function. The other 2-position switch (switch 2) is not used." Note (by me) this refers to microPDP usage of the BA23. The LTC is not used by the microVAX which could occupy the same box. carl

24 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.

by jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de

On 26 Feb, Steven M. Schultz wrote: >> 2.11 BSD UNIX #115: Sat Apr 22 19:07:25 PDT 2000 >> sms1@curly.2bsd.com:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC > That looks good - and familiar ;) ;-) > The next thing that should have come out is the '# ' single user > prompt. ... like setup.ps says. >> else happens. The "Run" LED at the front panel is off. I tried with an > > That sounds like the system 'halt'ed for some (unknown) reason. > Sigh - that kernel should work fine, especially with a RQDX3/RD54. Yes. All the devices where used in a MVII bevore and are knowen to work. Thats a bit confusing. >> System configuration: >> 11/73 (M8192), one with FP accel. or one without. (Jumpers W1..W6 in, >> W7..W9 out, so that the CPU enters ODT at power up.) > > There is a jumper (I forget which one) that enables/disables the > 'halt' instruction. BINGO! Pulling W5 solved the problem. But then I seted it again to double check. (I changed location today and took only the cards and disk with me.) In the "new" BA23 the system runs even with the W5 jumper installed. Then I noticed the different setting of the front panel DIP swich. The upper switch is off and the lower on. The switches of the other cabinet are both on. If I boot the machine with W5 installed and the upper switch on it hangs. It continues to run immediately if it is switched off. What is the purpose of this switches? OK. The machine is currently un-tar-ing /usr... :-))) Ahh, and an other question: Can the RT11 bootstrap listed in http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/bootstr… be used to boot 2.11BSD? I have no bootstrap ROM card. (Emanuel, hint, hint. ;-) ) So I use a minicom script to load the bootstrap via ODT. But the current bootstrap script is for TMSCP. So I have to load the bootblocks from tape... -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA54909 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:48:15 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Tue Feb 27 07:44:23 2001 Received: from psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au [129.78.83.26]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA54905 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:48:12 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from johnh(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from johnh@localhost) by psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id IAA24139 for PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:44:23 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:44:23 +1100 (EST) From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102262144.IAA24139(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> To: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk The root device, swap device, swap size and offset are hard coded into the kernel configuration file c.c. This is build by 'myconf', although a lot of people would directly edit l.s and c.c (in /usr/sys/conf). There are no magic /dev/swap entries. Edition 7 does the same thing. For a RK05 disk, the filesystem would typically occupy 4000 blocks, with the last 872 being allocated for swap. If you built a new root disk, you had to be careful that the disk size you gave to 'mkfs', didn't overlap the hard configured swap disk. No disk partitions. You can find out the current values by using one of the debuggers (db or cdb) to find the values of swap (_swapdev), swap size (_nswap), swap offset (_swplo) and root device (_rootdev). You can also use 'nm' to get the symbol table, and 'od' the kernel file /unix. The RK05 was usually the first entry in the device switch tables, so the major/minor numbers are usually 0. The 'ps' command looks up the symbol table of the unix kernel, and gets the device entry for swap (_swapdev), and the process table (_proc) It would open /dev as file, and read the directory entries to find a matching device entry, so it then had the name of a device to open (you cannot open a device based only in the major and minor device entries from a user process). It also uses /dev to decode tty entries into names. For 'ps' to work correctly, /unix had to be linked to the real kernel, say rkunix. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA55090 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:32:10 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Feb 27 08:32:38 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA55086 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:32:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f1QMZJR09631; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:35:19 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102262235.f1QMZJR09631(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Announce: The Unix Tree In-Reply-To: <200102261747.SAA16216(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> from "jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de" at "Feb 26, 2001 06:47:11 pm" To: jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:32:38 +1100 (EST) CC: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de: > On 26 Feb, Warren Toomey wrote: > > > Because of the license restrictions, you need your normal UNIX Archive > > username and password to browse. > Hmm. Can you set up Apache to provide SSL / HTTPS? I don't like to send > passwords unencrypted around the world. > tsch__, > Jochen They are not real passwords, in a sense. There is only a userpool of 1,000 usernames/passwords. When you register for access into the Unix Archive, you get one out of the pool. The only purpose here is to prove to SCO that you indeed agreed to their on-line license before you were given access to the archive. I'd be quite happy to completely dispense with the passwords altogether and run an anonymous service. If/when Caldera work out what they are doing with this stuff, I'll push them to allow for anonymous access. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA55130 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:39:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Tue Feb 27 08:26:24 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA55126 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:39:14 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f1QMQOv11403 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:26:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:26:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102262226.f1QMQOv11403(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs. Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de Mon Feb 26 13:16:40 2001 > > There is a jumper (I forget which one) that enables/disables the > > 'halt' instruction. > BINGO! Pulling W5 solved the problem. But then I seted it again to > double check. (I changed location today and took only the cards and > disk with me.) In the "new" BA23 the system runs even with the W5 Years ago I was completely suprised that 'halt' in kernel mode did not work and the system simply continued executing the next instruction. > jumper installed. Then I noticed the different setting of the front > panel DIP swich. The upper switch is off and the lower on. The switches > of the other cabinet are both on. If I boot the machine with W5 > installed and the upper switch on it hangs. It continues to run > immediately if it is switched off. What is the purpose of this > switches? I suspect that one of the switches enables the line frequency clock. With out a clock running things will work (at least minimally) as long as there are some interrupts happening. I vaguely remember that some systems (11/23?) had an externally enabled clock and if that switch was not set correctly the OS could be installed but the system would "hang" later on due to no context switch scheduling. > OK. The machine is currently un-tar-ing /usr... :-))) Fantastic! > Ahh, and an other question: Can the RT11 bootstrap listed in > http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/bootstr… > be used to boot 2.11BSD? I have no bootstrap ROM card. (Emanuel, hint, I think it will work. 2.11 is expecting the registers to contain the following: R0 = unit number R1 = CSR of booting controller as long as those are set it should not matter what bootcode is used. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA55189 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:46:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Tue Feb 27 08:39:30 2001 Received: from fgh.geac.com.au ([203.32.189.100]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA55185 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:46:53 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave(a)horsfall.org) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by fgh.geac.com.au (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1QMdUY03244; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:39:30 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:39:30 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> X-X-Sender: <dave(a)fgh.au.geac.com> To: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> cc: Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu>, <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? In-Reply-To: <3A9A97B5.4EBD13A4(a)tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102270938530.2716-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> X-No-Archive: Yes X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?" X-Witty-Saying: "Mobius Strip - See other side for instructions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote: > Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps" > still gripes about "no swap device." As I dimly recall, you need to link "/dev/drum" to whichever is the swap device. -- Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490 Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA55240 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:52:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> Tue Feb 27 08:45:56 2001 Received: from fgh.geac.com.au ([203.32.189.100]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA55235 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:52:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave(a)horsfall.org) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by fgh.geac.com.au (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1QMjuC03306 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:45:56 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:45:56 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> X-X-Sender: <dave(a)fgh.au.geac.com> To: PDP Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? In-Reply-To: <01K0KD39CMMQ91Z5ER(a)cc.usu.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102270942470.2716-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> X-No-Archive: Yes X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?" X-Witty-Saying: "Mobius Strip - See other side for instructions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Roger Ivie wrote: > It is indeed the case that V6 needs swap to fork. Forking in V6 is done > essentially by swapping the task out to disk and (oops!) forgetting to > delete the in-core copy. At least, that's how it looked to me. Yes, that's how it was done, leading to the dreaded "panic: swap". I think the swapped image became the parent, and the in-core one the child, hence the child was pretty well guaranteed to run before the parent (it typically did an exec() afterwards). -- Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490 Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA55279 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:55:22 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Tue Feb 27 08:51:11 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA55275 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:55:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1QMpBL28517; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:51:12 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A9ADDDF.F8468078(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:51:11 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.38 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> CC: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? References: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102270938530.2716-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Dave Horsfall wrote: > > On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote: > > > Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps" > > still gripes about "no swap device." > > As I dimly recall, you need to link "/dev/drum" to whichever is the swap > device. After some wise person earlier explained the whole process in detail, once I'd seen the final step ,I realized my error - I was booting rkunix and as it turned out, had not matched /unix with that kernel... I just tried it now and 'ps' is a happy camper. B^) -- Ken Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA55384 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:15:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> Tue Feb 27 08:40:09 2001 Received: from fgh.geac.com.au ([203.32.189.100]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA55380 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:15:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave(a)horsfall.org) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by fgh.geac.com.au (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1QMe9n03256 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:40:10 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:40:09 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> X-X-Sender: <dave(a)fgh.au.geac.com> To: PDP Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102270939440.2716-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> X-No-Archive: Yes X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?" X-Witty-Saying: "Mobius Strip - See other side for instructions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote: > Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps" > still gripes about "no swap device." As I dimly recall, you need to link "/dev/drum" to whichever is the swap device. -- Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490 Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA55398 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:15:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Tue Feb 27 09:12:07 2001 Received: from psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au [129.78.83.26]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA55394 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:15:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from johnh(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au) Received: (from johnh@localhost) by psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au (8.9.1a/8.9.1) id KAA26058 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:12:07 +1100 (EST) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:12:07 +1100 (EST) From: John Holden <johnh(a)psych.usyd.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102262312.KAA26058(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: [pups] Forks under V6 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > It is indeed the case that V6 needs swap to fork. Forking in V6 is done > essentially by swapping the task out to disk and (oops!) forgetting to > delete the in-core copy. At least, that's how it looked to me. No. Fork calls the internal version 'newproc'. It tries to allocate memory from the core map for the new process, and only when it fails that it creates the new process as a swap image. Effectively, it copies out the parent as a swap image, but attaches it to the child process (the parent isn't really swapped). In 'miniunix', the V6 strip down for pdp-11's without memory management (pdp11/20, 05, 10 and 40's without the proper options), only a single process would fit in core, so every context switch or fork required swapping. I cannot speak for pre V6 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA55548 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:50:56 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> Tue Feb 27 09:46:45 2001 Received: from Tempo.Update.UU.SE (IDENT:0@Tempo.Update.UU.SE [130.238.19.17]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA55544 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:50:51 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from bqt(a)update.uu.se) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Tempo.Update.UU.SE (8.11.2/8.11.2/Update-Iltempogigante) with ESMTP id f1QNkkx08605; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 00:46:46 +0100 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 00:46:45 +0100 (CET) From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs. In-Reply-To: <200102262226.f1QMQOv11403(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0102270042590.7228-100000(a)Tempo.Update.UU.SE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > > jumper installed. Then I noticed the different setting of the front > > panel DIP swich. The upper switch is off and the lower on. The switches > > of the other cabinet are both on. If I boot the machine with W5 > > installed and the upper switch on it hangs. It continues to run > > immediately if it is switched off. What is the purpose of this > > switches? > > I suspect that one of the switches enables the line frequency clock. > With out a clock running things will work (at least minimally) as > long as there are some interrupts happening. Could be. I also remember seeing somewhere that the two dip switches on the front panel of BA23 boxes should be set differently for PDP-11s and VAXen. Appearantly they expect the boot button to behave in different ways on the bus as well... (and HALT I think) Don't have that docuemnt anywhere close though... > I vaguely remember that some systems (11/23?) had an externally > enabled clock and if that switch was not set correctly the OS could > be installed but the system would "hang" later on due to no context > switch scheduling. That definitely happens for RSX atleast. You *must* have a clock interrupt running, or you are cooked. > > Ahh, and an other question: Can the RT11 bootstrap listed in > > http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/bootstr… > > be used to boot 2.11BSD? I have no bootstrap ROM card. (Emanuel, hint, > > I think it will work. 2.11 is expecting the registers to contain > the following: > > R0 = unit number > R1 = CSR of booting controller > > as long as those are set it should not matter what bootcode is used. Then it's more forgiving than the RSX boot code. I have tried that bootstrap and it won't boot RSX atleast, that much I know... Speaking of which; does anyone have boot roms for TMSCP for the M9312? Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA55592 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 10:53:39 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 2 months

1
0
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Re: [pups] Swap device in V6?

by Bill Gunshannon

On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote: > > Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps" > still gripes about "no swap device." > > So I'm missing something I guess. > Based on my recent experience with Ultrix-11 (which warns you not to try and change the partiitioning on certain drive types as the kernel has some references hard-coded) what you may be missing are the devices for the individual partitions. Is there an equivalent to MAKEDEV?? Ultrix uses a program named "msf" (for "make special file") and so you never see what the partitioning layout is unless you peek at the sources. Good luck. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA53869 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 05:59:06 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Tue Feb 27 04:27:12 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA53865 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 05:59:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:26:14 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <FWD7Q3LT>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:27:13 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D1C9(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu> Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:27:12 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I, too, have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed as 0,0. Relaetd to this, ps does something odd (at least to my experience) with the open() system call - it calls 'open ("/dev")', without a second argument for mode; that seems like a no-no in C, but for C of this era I'm not sure. That call seems to succeed; it's a few statements later where it fails with the "no swap device" console message. But where cc seems to be failing (in /lib/c0), it is doing a fork(), execve() and wait(), and if the system needs to swap to do that, not being able to find swap space would sure bugger things up. I'll examine my /dev/rk0 structure next.... -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:52 AM To: Roger Ivie Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? Roger Ivie wrote: > > Ian King said: > > I've combed the docs and the code, and I can't find ANYthing about how = > > swap space is assigned or designated. Does anyone have any hints? = > > Thanks -- Ian=20 > > Yeah, I figured this out a while ago. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle > of changing employers so everything's in boxes at the moment. > > Basically, the swap space is hard-coded into the device drivers. If you > take a look at, for example, the RK05 driver you'll see that one of the > drives is smaller than the others. That extra space is the swap space. > I forget how the rest of the system is informed of the swap space, but > it's done in the disk driver sources IIRC. I took a quick look at this this morning and as Roger says, the kernel is built with a wired in swap. In the case of the kernel 'rkunix,' in looking at usr/sys/run or something like that, I see they are wiring the swap to be device major=0 and minor=0 which is the root RK05 drive. Looking at the code it seems the first 4000 blocks are file system and a following 782 (or something like that) are for swap. The "ps" command source appears to be poking around /dev looking for a block device that matches the kernel value for swapdev (or something like that) and confirming it is a block device. Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps" still gripes about "no swap device." So I'm missing something I guess. -- Ken Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA53963 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:08:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] Tue Feb 27 04:04:53 2001 Received: from grumpy.usu.edu (grumpy.usu.edu [129.123.1.86]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA53959 for <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:08:47 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu) Received: from cc.usu.edu by cc.usu.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #30472) id <01K0KD39CHXC91Z5ER(a)cc.usu.edu> for PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:04:53 MDT Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:04:53 -0600 (MDT) From: Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu> Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? To: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Message-id: <01K0KD39CMMQ91Z5ER(a)cc.usu.edu> X-VMS-To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Ian King wrote: > But where cc seems to be failing (in /lib/c0), it is doing a fork(), > execve() and wait(), and if the system needs to swap to do that, not being > able to find swap space would sure bugger things up. It is indeed the case that V6 needs swap to fork. Forking in V6 is done essentially by swapping the task out to disk and (oops!) forgetting to delete the in-core copy. At least, that's how it looked to me. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA54007 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:13:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Tue Feb 27 05:06:07 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA54001 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:13:26 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:07:28 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <FWD7QWQ7>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:06:17 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEBFD(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'Steven M. Schultz'" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Serial settings (was RE: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:06:07 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk FWIW, I noticed that Unix V6 is happier with 7E1 for its console, too; I'm using a terminal emulator, and was getting garbage from V6 (but had had no problems with RSX-11). -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Steven M. Schultz [mailto:sms@moe.2bsd.com] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 10:22 AM To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs. [snip] > BTW: What serial parameters does 2.11BSD use? The first time I booted > UNIX I got garbage after "user mem = 307200". I seted the vt220 to 7e1 > and this worked, but is it correct? Yes, 7e1 is correct - a legacy setting from eons ago. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA54287 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:51:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> Tue Feb 27 05:41:07 2001 Received: from mwnt5.microwalt.nl (mwnt5.microwalt.nl [195.86.89.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA54283 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 06:51:54 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl) Received: from mwnt4.microwalt.nl (unverified) by mwnt5.microwalt.nl (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id <T0a005f2651f8e8f4da(a)mwnt5.microwalt.nl> for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:46:07 +0000 Received: by mwnt4.microwalt.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <FQJ8RAWQ>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:41:13 +0100 Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32CA8(a)mwnt4.microwalt.nl> From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> To: "PUPS Mailing List (E-mail)" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] Ultrix-11 V3.1 hang on DEQNA ? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:41:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk All, I'm almost there. If only I can tell my 11/23+ _not_ to hang as soon as I enable networking by configuring the Ethernet (qe0; DEQNA) card with ifconfig. Does anyone have docs regarding the DEQNA and/or DELQA so I can check the board's physical settings? Thx, Fted ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA54456 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 07:22:31 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Tue Feb 27 06:17:18 2001 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net (tele-post-20.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.20]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA54452 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 07:22:17 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk) Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14XU6C-0000Xp-0K; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:18:25 +0000 Message-ID: <ZchHXUAOnrm6Ewzo(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:17:18 +0000 To: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Cc: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu>, PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D1C9(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> In-Reply-To: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D1C9(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U <YSkKJATYm0AxAbv6xwlBrCeVCW> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In later unixes, 2.11 for instance, /dev/swap is a link to the swap device. Is ps attempting to open /dev/swap and finding that it either isn't there or it is mknoded to an incorrect device? Robin In message <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D1C9(a)red-msg-06.redmond. corp.microsoft.com>, Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> writes >I, too, have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed as 0,0. Relaetd to this, ps does something >odd (at least to my experience) with the open() system call - it calls 'open >("/dev")', without a second argument for mode; that seems like a no-no in C, >but for C of this era I'm not sure. That call seems to succeed; it's a few >statements later where it fails with the "no swap device" console message. > >But where cc seems to be failing (in /lib/c0), it is doing a fork(), >execve() and wait(), and if the system needs to swap to do that, not being >able to find swap space would sure bugger things up. > >I'll examine my /dev/rk0 structure next.... -- Ian > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] >Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:52 AM >To: Roger Ivie >Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au >Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? > > >Roger Ivie wrote: >> >> Ian King said: >> > I've combed the docs and the code, and I can't find ANYthing about how = >> > swap space is assigned or designated. Does anyone have any hints? = >> > Thanks -- Ian=20 >> >> Yeah, I figured this out a while ago. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle >> of changing employers so everything's in boxes at the moment. >> >> Basically, the swap space is hard-coded into the device drivers. If you >> take a look at, for example, the RK05 driver you'll see that one of the >> drives is smaller than the others. That extra space is the swap space. >> I forget how the rest of the system is informed of the swap space, but >> it's done in the disk driver sources IIRC. > >I took a quick look at this this morning and as Roger says, the kernel >is built with a wired in swap. In the case of the kernel 'rkunix,' in >looking at usr/sys/run or something like that, I see they are wiring >the swap to be device major=0 and minor=0 which is the root RK05 drive. > >Looking at the code it seems the first 4000 blocks are file system and >a following 782 (or something like that) are for swap. > >The "ps" command source appears to be poking around /dev looking for a >block device that matches the kernel value for swapdev (or something like >that) and confirming it is a block device. > >Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps" >still gripes about "no swap device." > >So I'm missing something I guess. > >-- Ken ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA54490 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 07:26:37 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Tue Feb 27 06:22:35 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA54486 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 07:26:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1QKMZL28334; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:22:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A9ABB0B.F1E754B(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:22:35 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.38 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> CC: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D1C9(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> <ZchHXUAOnrm6Ewzo(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I know I for one had forgotten just what "the state of the art" was with UNIX back in 1975. If you can, please do look at the source for V6/ps. Really. /dev/swap? In your dreams! B^) Cheers, -- Ken Robin Birch wrote: > > In later unixes, 2.11 for instance, /dev/swap is a link to the swap > device. Is ps attempting to open /dev/swap and finding that it either > isn't there or it is mknoded to an incorrect device? > > Robin Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA54574 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 07:40:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Tue Feb 27 06:29:48 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA54570 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 07:40:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:28:34 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <FW8LQLS5>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:30:01 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D1CB(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'Robin Birch'" <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Cc: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu>, PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:29:48 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I was wondering about that, as I've seen that sort of thing in other *nixes, too. I tried creating a link to /dev/swap from /dev/rk0, and it didn't help ps (same error message). I'm going to figure out some way to print out ps.c later and trace through it; I was going through it with ed on the PDP-11 (which was fun, in a twisted, nostalgic sort of way). If I can figure out exactly how it's looking for what it's looking for, perhaps I can figure out why it isn't finding it. :-) I've found the stuff on coming up in single-user mode, too - with 173030 in the switch register (I have the programmer's panel on my 11/34a). FYI. -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Robin Birch [mailto:robin@ruffnready.co.uk] Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 12:17 PM To: Ian King Cc: 'Ken Wellsch'; Roger Ivie; PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? In later unixes, 2.11 for instance, /dev/swap is a link to the swap device. Is ps attempting to open /dev/swap and finding that it either isn't there or it is mknoded to an incorrect device? Robin In message <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D1C9(a)red-msg-06.redmond. corp.microsoft.com>, Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> writes >I, too, have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed as 0,0. Relaetd to this, ps does something >odd (at least to my experience) with the open() system call - it calls 'open >("/dev")', without a second argument for mode; that seems like a no-no in C, >but for C of this era I'm not sure. That call seems to succeed; it's a few >statements later where it fails with the "no swap device" console message. > >But where cc seems to be failing (in /lib/c0), it is doing a fork(), >execve() and wait(), and if the system needs to swap to do that, not being >able to find swap space would sure bugger things up. > >I'll examine my /dev/rk0 structure next.... -- Ian > >-----Original Message----- >From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] >Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 9:52 AM >To: Roger Ivie >Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au >Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? > > >Roger Ivie wrote: >> >> Ian King said: >> > I've combed the docs and the code, and I can't find ANYthing about how = >> > swap space is assigned or designated. Does anyone have any hints? = >> > Thanks -- Ian=20 >> >> Yeah, I figured this out a while ago. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle >> of changing employers so everything's in boxes at the moment. >> >> Basically, the swap space is hard-coded into the device drivers. If you >> take a look at, for example, the RK05 driver you'll see that one of the >> drives is smaller than the others. That extra space is the swap space. >> I forget how the rest of the system is informed of the swap space, but >> it's done in the disk driver sources IIRC. > >I took a quick look at this this morning and as Roger says, the kernel >is built with a wired in swap. In the case of the kernel 'rkunix,' in >looking at usr/sys/run or something like that, I see they are wiring >the swap to be device major=0 and minor=0 which is the root RK05 drive. > >Looking at the code it seems the first 4000 blocks are file system and >a following 782 (or something like that) are for swap. > >The "ps" command source appears to be poking around /dev looking for a >block device that matches the kernel value for swapdev (or something like >that) and confirming it is a block device. > >Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps" >still gripes about "no swap device." > >So I'm missing something I guess. > >-- Ken ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA54716 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:12:35 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> Tue Feb 27 07:01:36 2001 Received: from mwnt5.microwalt.nl (mwnt5.microwalt.nl [195.86.89.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA54712 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:12:31 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl) Received: from mwnt4.microwalt.nl (unverified) by mwnt5.microwalt.nl (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id <T0a005f2651f932a75e(a)mwnt5.microwalt.nl>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:06:37 +0000 Received: by mwnt4.microwalt.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <FQJ8RAXB>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:01:43 +0100 Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32CAB(a)mwnt4.microwalt.nl> From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> To: "'Robin Birch'" <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk>, Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Cc: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu>, PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] Swap device in V6? Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 22:01:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > In later unixes, 2.11 for instance, /dev/swap is a link to the swap > device. Is ps attempting to open /dev/swap and finding that it either > isn't there or it is mknoded to an incorrect device? That is often the case.. dunno about V6 though.. is a long time ago :) --f ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA54749 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:20:24 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 2 months

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[pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs.

by jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de

Hi. Yesterday I installed 2.11BSD on my PDP11/73. Everything went fine up to the first time when UNIX was booted. The kernel came up, init was started, autoconfig run and printed out the devices it had (not) found. My disk and tape were found but then, after printing: ----- 73Boot from tms(0,0,0) at 0174500 : ra(0,0)unix Boot: bootdev=02400 bootcsr=0172150 2.11 BSD UNIX #115: Sat Apr 22 19:07:25 PDT 2000 sms1@curly.2bsd.com:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC ra0: Ver 3 mod 3 ra0: RD54 size=311200 phys mem = 4186112 avail mem = 3962176 user mem = 307200 June 8 21:21:24 init: configure system hk ? csr 177440 vector 210 skipped: No CSR. ht ? csr 172440 vector 224 skipped: No CSR. ra 0 csr 172150 vector 154 vectorset attached rl ? csr 174400 vector 160 skipped: No CSR. tm ? csr 172520 vector 224 skipped: No CSR. tms 0 csr 174500 vector 260 vectorset attached ts ? csr 172520 vector 224 skipped: No CSR. xp ? csr 176700 vector 254 skipped: No CSR. ----- it hangs. Characters I type into the terminal are echod, but nothing else happens. The "Run" LED at the front panel is of. I tried with an other CPU und memory card, but the same happend. System configuration: 11/73 (M8192), one with FP accel. or one without. (Jumpers W1..W6 in, W7..W9 out, so that the CPU enters ODT at power up.) 4MB or 1MB memory card (non DEC) Sigma DLV11-J clone for console (CSR 1765{0,1,2}0 and 177560) TK50 with TQK50 (CSR 174500) RA54, last week reformated on a MV2000 with RQDX3 (CSR 172150) BA23 from a MVII. BTW: What serial parameters does 2.11BSD use? The first time I booted UNIX I got garbage after "user mem = 307200". I seted the vt220 to 7e1 and this worked, but is it correct? -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA53205 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:35:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu> Tue Feb 27 03:31:41 2001 Received: from grumpy.usu.edu (grumpy.usu.edu [129.123.1.86]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA53196 for <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:34:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu) Received: from cc.usu.edu by cc.usu.edu (PMDF V5.2-32 #39375) id <01K0K9U87TRK9ODB68(a)cc.usu.edu> for PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:31:41 MST Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:31:41 -0700 (MST) From: Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu> Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? To: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Message-id: <01K0K9U87UPE9ODB68(a)cc.usu.edu> X-VMS-To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Ian King said: > I've combed the docs and the code, and I can't find ANYthing about how = > swap space is assigned or designated. Does anyone have any hints? = > Thanks -- Ian=20 Yeah, I figured this out a while ago. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of changing employers so everything's in boxes at the moment. Basically, the swap space is hard-coded into the device drivers. If you take a look at, for example, the RK05 driver you'll see that one of the drives is smaller than the others. That extra space is the swap space. I forget how the rest of the system is informed of the swap space, but it's done in the disk driver sources IIRC. Roger Ivie ivie(a)cc.usu.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA53322 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:55:47 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Tue Feb 27 03:51:49 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA53318 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 04:55:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1QHpnL27849; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:51:49 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A9A97B5.4EBD13A4(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:51:49 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.38 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Roger Ivie <IVIE(a)cc.usu.edu> CC: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Swap device in V6? References: <01K0K9U87UPE9ODB68(a)cc.usu.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Roger Ivie wrote: > > Ian King said: > > I've combed the docs and the code, and I can't find ANYthing about how = > > swap space is assigned or designated. Does anyone have any hints? = > > Thanks -- Ian=20 > > Yeah, I figured this out a while ago. Unfortunately, I'm in the middle > of changing employers so everything's in boxes at the moment. > > Basically, the swap space is hard-coded into the device drivers. If you > take a look at, for example, the RK05 driver you'll see that one of the > drives is smaller than the others. That extra space is the swap space. > I forget how the rest of the system is informed of the swap space, but > it's done in the disk driver sources IIRC. I took a quick look at this this morning and as Roger says, the kernel is built with a wired in swap. In the case of the kernel 'rkunix,' in looking at usr/sys/run or something like that, I see they are wiring the swap to be device major=0 and minor=0 which is the root RK05 drive. Looking at the code it seems the first 4000 blocks are file system and a following 782 (or something like that) are for swap. The "ps" command source appears to be poking around /dev looking for a block device that matches the kernel value for swapdev (or something like that) and confirming it is a block device. Yet I see I have /dev/rk0 mknod'ed 0/0 and it is a block device but "ps" still gripes about "no swap device." So I'm missing something I guess. -- Ken Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA53659 for pups-liszt; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 05:39:14 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Tue Feb 27 04:22:23 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA53655 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 05:39:10 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f1QIMNt09941 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:22:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:22:23 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102261822.f1QIMNt09941(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD boot hangs. Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: jkunz(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de > > Yesterday I installed 2.11BSD on my PDP11/73. Everything went fine up > to the first time when UNIX was booted. The kernel came up, init was > started, autoconfig run and printed out the devices it had (not) found. > 2.11 BSD UNIX #115: Sat Apr 22 19:07:25 PDT 2000 > sms1@curly.2bsd.com:/usr/src/sys/GENERIC That looks good - and familiar ;) > xp ? csr 176700 vector 254 skipped: No CSR. > ----- > it hangs. Characters I type into the terminal are echod, but nothing The next thing that should have come out is the '# ' single user prompt. > else happens. The "Run" LED at the front panel is off. I tried with an That sounds like the system 'halt'ed for some (unknown) reason. Sigh - that kernel should work fine, especially with a RQDX3/RD54. I am at a loss to explain/diagnose the problem. > System configuration: > 11/73 (M8192), one with FP accel. or one without. (Jumpers W1..W6 in, > W7..W9 out, so that the CPU enters ODT at power up.) There is a jumper (I forget which one) that enables/disables the 'halt' instruction. If 'halt' is disabled then the 'halt' instruction is treated as a 'nop' even in kernel mode. If 'halt' is enabled then the console ODT will be entered if the kernel executes a halt. Looks like we'll have to try and solve this the hard way ;( After the system hangs press the 'halt' button on the front of the machine and note the PC - hopefully that value will give a clue as to where the kernel is at the time (likely in a clock interrupt). > BTW: What serial parameters does 2.11BSD use? The first time I booted > UNIX I got garbage after "user mem = 307200". I seted the vt220 to 7e1 > and this worked, but is it correct? Yes, 7e1 is correct - a legacy setting from eons ago. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com

24 years, 2 months

1
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Re: [pups] Stray Interupts

by Johnny Billquist

On Sun, 25 Feb 2001, Robin Birch wrote: > Dear All, > Having got to the point where I can get ultrix trying to boot on p11 I > can confirm that it complains of stray interrupts on p11 as well. A > thought occurred to me over the weekend that I haven't had time to try > out. Is this the toy clock. It is certainly built into p11, is it > built into Bob Supnik's emulator and if so, does it generate interrupts? Nope. The TOY clock don't generate interrupts. Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA38600 for pups-liszt; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 05:54:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mon Feb 26 04:48:51 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA38596 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 05:54:04 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f1PImpn25642 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 10:48:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 10:48:51 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102251848.f1PImpn25642(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Stray Interupts Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> > > Having got to the point where I can get ultrix trying to boot on p11 I > can confirm that it complains of stray interrupts on p11 as well. A > thought occurred to me over the weekend that I haven't had time to try > out. Is this the toy clock. It is certainly built into p11, is it > built into Bob Supnik's emulator and if so, does it generate interrupts? > As Billy pointed out the TOY clock does not generate interrupts. The line frequency clock does but the TOY clock does not. Looking at the Ultrix-3.1 sources I found something that may be relevant in sys/errlog.c: /* * Log a stray device interrupt. * * A stray interrupt is defined as one that occurs for * a configured device through a valid vector address, * but is unexpected. In the case of big disks, a stray * interrupt is logged when the interrupt service routine * is entered and the device is not active and no attention * summary bits are set. */ One guess is that other systems do not use or concern themselves with 'attention summary' bits and simply dismiss the interrupt without comment. Looking at the errlogs (I do not know what the commands for doing that are but a big of digging would probably find them) might yield more information. Cheers. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA39100 for pups-liszt; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 08:08:14 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Mon Feb 26 07:02:52 2001 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA39096 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 08:08:10 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk) Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14X8L9-0007uE-0X; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:04:24 +0000 Message-ID: <v179WIA8LXm6Ew3b(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:02:52 +0000 To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Subject: Re: [pups] Stray Interupts References: <200102251848.f1PImpn25642(a)moe.2bsd.com> In-Reply-To: <200102251848.f1PImpn25642(a)moe.2bsd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U <YSkKJATYm0AxAbv6xwlBrCeVCW> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Rats, This means that it won't be simple to fix!!!!!!!! It could mean that running Ultrix on a simulator isn't on without some work on the emulators themselves. When the SI message is generated it comes out with a number that looks like an address. Would this point to the source of the interrupt? On p11 it is a constant address, I just can't remember what it is for the moment. Cheers Robin In message <200102251848.f1PImpn25642(a)moe.2bsd.com>, Steven M. Schultz <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> writes >> From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> >> >> Having got to the point where I can get ultrix trying to boot on p11 I >> can confirm that it complains of stray interrupts on p11 as well. A >> thought occurred to me over the weekend that I haven't had time to try >> out. Is this the toy clock. It is certainly built into p11, is it >> built into Bob Supnik's emulator and if so, does it generate interrupts? >> > As Billy pointed out the TOY clock does not generate interrupts. The > line frequency clock does but the TOY clock does not. > > Looking at the Ultrix-3.1 sources I found something that may be > relevant in sys/errlog.c: > >/* > * Log a stray device interrupt. > * > * A stray interrupt is defined as one that occurs for > * a configured device through a valid vector address, > * but is unexpected. In the case of big disks, a stray > * interrupt is logged when the interrupt service routine > * is entered and the device is not active and no attention > * summary bits are set. > */ > > One guess is that other systems do not use or concern themselves with > 'attention summary' bits and simply dismiss the interrupt without > comment. > > Looking at the errlogs (I do not know what the commands for doing that > are but a big of digging would probably find them) might yield more > information. > > Cheers. > > Steven Schultz > sms(a)moe.2bsd.com ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA39340 for pups-liszt; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 08:41:19 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Mon Feb 26 07:37:21 2001 Received: from mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (mailhost.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.1]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA39336 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 08:41:14 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from bill(a)cs.uofs.edu) Received: from triangle.cs.uofs.edu (IDENT:root@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.172.101]) by mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id QAA41428; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:39:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (bill@localhost) by triangle.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id QAA14066; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:37:23 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: triangle.cs.uofs.edu: bill owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:37:21 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> To: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> cc: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Stray Interupts In-Reply-To: <v179WIA8LXm6Ew3b(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102251630510.13466-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Sun, 25 Feb 2001, Robin Birch wrote: > Rats, > This means that it won't be simple to fix!!!!!!!! > > It could mean that running Ultrix on a simulator isn't on without some > work on the emulators themselves. Well, that's my estimation. I thought at first it was harmless, but work I have attempted over this weekend using the Supnik emulator has changed my mind. > When the SI message is generated it > comes out with a number that looks like an address. Would this point to > the source of the interrupt? On p11 it is a constant address, I just > can't remember what it is for the moment. Let me guess: 176700. :-) It's the csr of the device that issued the stray interrupt. My guess is your having the same trouble with p11 that I am having with Bob's. It's the hp device and every RP disk access causes stray interrupts. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA39822 for pups-liszt; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:53:35 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Mon Feb 26 04:57:10 2001 Received: from sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (root(a)belldandy.iteration.net [208.190.180.179]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA39818 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:53:30 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog(a)sydney.worldwide.lemis.com) Received: (from grog@localhost) by sydney.worldwide.lemis.com (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f1PIvAI11659; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 13:57:10 -0500 (EST) (envelope-from grog) Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 13:57:10 -0500 From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> To: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Cc: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au, Hartmut Brandt <brandt(a)fokus.gmd.de>, Joerg Micheel <joerg(a)begemot.org> Subject: [pups] Begemot emulator (was: Stray Interupts) Message-ID: <20010225135710.B11541(a)sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> References: <200102230427.f1N4RhD19979(a)moe.2bsd.com> <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102230834350.12446-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0i In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102230834350.12446-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu>; from bill(a)cs.scranton.edu on Fri, Feb 23, 2001 at 08:43:41AM -0500 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Friday, 23 February 2001 at 8:43:41 -0500, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Steven M. Schultz wrote: >> so the machine can be placed on a network. P11's also quite a bit >> more efficient/fast. Configuration can be puzzling but sample >> config files are available (from various PUPS folks who run P11). > > I would love to us the Begemot emulator. I have the latest version but > I have been unable to get any of my disk images to work. Can anyone > tell me if you can use the disk images from the other emulators and if > so, how?? Do they have to be converted somehow like tapes?? *sigh* The Begemot emulator has bitrotted a little. I can no longer get it to work, though admittedly I didn't try very hard the last time, and it may be something as simple as a corrupted disk image. But the other thing is that the Begemot ftp site is no longer accessible, which is somewhat embarrassing, since I host it. I'm copying J�rg Micheel and Harti Brandt, the Begemot people, and I hope that we'll get it up again soon. J�rg, Harti, the problem is that I migrated a system disk, and seem to have lost the connection to the ftp files. You should find them somewhere on the file systems /freebie or /freebie/usr, which are the old system disk, still spinning. Greg -- Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA47415 for pups-liszt; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:50:13 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> Mon Feb 26 10:39:25 2001 Received: from mwnt5.microwalt.nl (mwnt5.microwalt.nl [195.86.89.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA47410 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:50:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl) Received: from mwnt4.microwalt.nl (unverified) by mwnt5.microwalt.nl (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id <T0a005f2651f4d3a8c8(a)mwnt5.microwalt.nl>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 01:44:22 +0000 Received: by mwnt4.microwalt.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <FQJ8RA4N>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 01:39:26 +0100 Message-ID: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32CA5(a)mwnt4.microwalt.nl> From: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> To: "'Bill Gunshannon'" <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu>, Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Cc: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] Stray Interupts Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 01:39:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk All, Robin Birch wrote: > > This means that it won't be simple to fix!!!!!!!! Sure, fix the source :) > > It could mean that running Ultrix on a simulator isn't on > without some work on the emulators themselves. I have been running Ultrix-11 V3.1 on Ersatz-11 without any of that. It _could_ be linked to interrupt latency issues- Ultrix tells controller to do something (e.g., three commands to read a sector). Controller does as told, generating an interrupt for each of the requests saying its ready. However, because of latency, only ints 1 and 3 actually get delivered within the expected timeframe (can happen). Usually (from my experience with writing Unix kernel drivers), this is not a problem, because the "message" from (in this case) int2 will be picked up when we start to service int3, which we _did_ see. So, even though we didnt get int2, we were fine. Now... emulator wakes up again, goes "oi, i messed up, better go send that int now" and sends the int. The driver no longer _awaits_ an interrupt (because we cleared the AttentionNeeded flags when servicing int3), so... we get the "stray int" message. If this logic is correct, it will get worse when loading the host system heavily, so latency will occur more often. On a very fast box (like my quad CPU P3/850 Linux box) it should hardly occur. Anyone? Fred (hacking on the V3.1 source to not fuck up TCP/IP on the 11/23 ..) ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA47701 for pups-liszt; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:27:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Mon Feb 26 11:28:04 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA47697 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:27:16 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f1Q1Uij05690 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:30:44 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102260130.f1Q1Uij05690(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] Announce: The Unix Tree To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:28:04 +1100 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi all, A while ago I floated the idea of a web-browsable set of old Unix distributions, along with a way of finding out how each file evolved. Well, after a bit of coding on the weekend, I now have this available. It's called the Unix Tree, and the URL is http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/UnixTree/ Because of the license restrictions, you need your normal UNIX Archive username and password to browse. I've only inserted research editions up to 7th Edition for now, in case I have to make major changes. However, tell me what you think. Cheers, and off to have some lunch. Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA48209 for pups-liszt; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:49:49 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Mon Feb 26 12:45:53 2001 Received: from mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (mailhost.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.1]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA48205 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:49:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from bill(a)cs.uofs.edu) Received: from triangle.cs.uofs.edu (IDENT:root@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.172.101]) by mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id VAA42195; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:48:18 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (bill@localhost) by triangle.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id VAA14159; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:45:55 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: triangle.cs.uofs.edu: bill owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:45:53 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> To: "Fred N. van Kempen" <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> cc: PUPS Mailing List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: RE: [pups] Stray Interupts In-Reply-To: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32CA5(a)mwnt4.microwalt.nl> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102252140060.13466-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 26 Feb 2001, Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > > > It could mean that running Ultrix on a simulator isn't on > > without some work on the emulators themselves. > I have been running Ultrix-11 V3.1 on Ersatz-11 without any of that. It Which I think says a lot about the quality of Ersatz-11. > _could_ be linked to interrupt latency issues- Ultrix tells controller > to do something (e.g., three commands to read a sector). Controller does > as told, generating an interrupt for each of the requests saying its ready. > However, because of latency, only ints 1 and 3 actually get delivered within > the expected timeframe (can happen). > > Usually (from my experience with writing Unix kernel drivers), this is not > a problem, because the "message" from (in this case) int2 will be picked up > when we start to service int3, which we _did_ see. So, even though we didnt > get int2, we were fine. > > Now... emulator wakes up again, goes "oi, i messed up, better go send that > int now" and sends the int. The driver no longer _awaits_ an interrupt > (because > we cleared the AttentionNeeded flags when servicing int3), so... we get the > "stray int" message. Based on my experience over this weekend, I can definitely agree with all of the above. It makes perfect sense and goes a long way toward explaining my problems. > > If this logic is correct, it will get worse when loading the host system > heavily, so latency will occur more often. I can also vouch for this. I finally gave up on trying to do anything I/O intensive on the emulated RP disk. Emulator was continuously crashing. > On a very fast box (like my quad CPU > P3/850 Linux box) it should hardly occur. While this is not a solution most people here are likely to be able to apply :-) I also have doubts that it will solve the problem. I also doubt that the problem is as easy as just throwing away the stray interrupt. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA49935 for pups-liszt; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:59:24 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Ian King" <iking(a)killthewabbit.org> Mon Feb 26 17:49:22 2001 Received: from sylvester.killthewabbit.org (root(a)64-6-189-55.sea2.phoenixdsl.net [64.6.189.55]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA49931 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:59:19 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)killthewabbit.org) Message-ID: <000a01c09fc8$a2965290$450010ac@dawabbit> From: "Ian King" <iking(a)killthewabbit.org> To: <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] Swap device in V6? Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 23:49:22 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C09F85.94050E80" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C09F85.94050E80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm working with the install image provided by Ken Wellsch, and when I = execute the 'ps' command I get an error that says "no swap device". I'm = not particularly concerned about ps itself, but another symptom of = problems is that I can't compile anything in C; I get an error out of cc = that says "Fatal error in /lib/c0". Given where that error comes from = in cc, it appears related. =20 I've combed the docs and the code, and I can't find ANYthing about how = swap space is assigned or designated. Does anyone have any hints? = Thanks -- Ian=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C09F85.94050E80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML><HEAD> <META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR> <STYLE></STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#c8e0d8> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I'm working with the install image = provided by Ken=20 Wellsch, and when I execute the 'ps' command I get an error that says = "no swap=20 device".  I'm not particularly concerned about ps itself, but = another=20 symptom of problems is that I can't compile anything in C; I get an = error out of=20 cc that says "Fatal error in /lib/c0".  Given where that error = comes from=20 in cc, it appears related.  </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I've combed the docs and the code, and = I can't find=20 ANYthing about how swap space is assigned or designated.  Does = anyone have=20 any hints?  Thanks -- Ian </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C09F85.94050E80-- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA50497 for pups-liszt; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:38:17 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Harti Brandt <brandt(a)fokus.gmd.de> Mon Feb 26 19:31:40 2001 Received: from mailhub.fokus.gmd.de (mailhub.fokus.gmd.de [193.174.154.14]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA50493 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:38:12 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from brandt(a)fokus.gmd.de) Received: from beagle (beagle [193.175.132.100]) by mailhub.fokus.gmd.de (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA19420; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:31:40 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:31:40 +0100 (CET) From: Harti Brandt <brandt(a)fokus.gmd.de> To: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> cc: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu>, "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Hartmut Brandt <brandt(a)fokus.gmd.de>, Joerg Micheel <joerg(a)begemot.org> Subject: [pups] Re: Begemot emulator (was: Stray Interupts) In-Reply-To: <20010225135710.B11541(a)sydney.worldwide.lemis.com> Message-ID: <Pine.BSF.4.33.0102261027150.70540-100000(a)beagle.fokus.gmd.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=KOI8-R Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au id UAA50494 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Sun, 25 Feb 2001, Greg Lehey wrote: GL>On Friday, 23 February 2001 at 8:43:41 -0500, Bill Gunshannon wrote: GL>> On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Steven M. Schultz wrote: GL>>> so the machine can be placed on a network. P11's also quite a bit GL>>> more efficient/fast. Configuration can be puzzling but sample GL>>> config files are available (from various PUPS folks who run P11). GL>> GL>> I would love to us the Begemot emulator. I have the latest version but GL>> I have been unable to get any of my disk images to work. Can anyone GL>> tell me if you can use the disk images from the other emulators and if GL>> so, how?? Do they have to be converted somehow like tapes?? GL> GL>*sigh* The Begemot emulator has bitrotted a little. I can no longer GL>get it to work, though admittedly I didn't try very hard the last GL>time, and it may be something as simple as a corrupted disk image. GL>But the other thing is that the Begemot ftp site is no longer GL>accessible, which is somewhat embarrassing, since I host it. I'm GL>copying J�rg Micheel and Harti Brandt, the Begemot people, and I hope GL>that we'll get it up again soon. J�rg, Harti, the problem is that I GL>migrated a system disk, and seem to have lost the connection to the GL>ftp files. You should find them somewhere on the file systems GL>/freebie or /freebie/usr, which are the old system disk, still GL>spinning. I have done some work on the emulator last autumn and plan to release a new version Real-Soon-Now(tm). Well, I think I will to a kill -STOP `cat /var/run/currentwork` and try to do it in the next couple of days. Please watch the alt.sys.pdp11 for an anouncement. Disc images work directly (at least the images from Bob Supnik do). harti -- harti brandt, http://www.fokus.gmd.de/research/cc/cats/employees/hartmut.brandt/private brandt(a)fokus.gmd.de, harti(a)begemot.org Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA51329 for pups-liszt; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 23:37:47 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 2 months

1
0
0 0

[pups] Troubles with 2.9BSD on 11/34a

by Christian Corti

Hi, I finally managed to install 2.9BSD on a real 11/34 with two RL01s; I used KSERVE on RT-11 to transfer a boot disk image created with E11 to a RL01 disk. I did the same for the /usr partition to be mounted. (It was hard to find out that I had to write a little program to convert the usr.tar file into a tape file for E11 and un-tar it to the disk image. It didn't work by mounting the tar-file as /dev/rl2 and doing tar xvf /dev/rrl2; tar would hang immediatly or after the first few files.) Good news: I can boot Unix, mount /usr, edit /etc/dtab with vi etc. Multiuser works too, with my notebook running MS-DOS Kermit in VT100 mode as the console and a real ADM3a attached to a second serial port. Bad news: Using the system is a real pain because some (no specific) programs will cause either a "memory fault - core dumped" or a "bus error - core dumped". E.g. calling "/lib/cpp" fails, but "/lib/cpp foo" says something like "foo not found" and terminates without fault. Very strange too: Sometimes when I start "awk" without parameters (just for playing around) I get an error like "error on line 6: ..." as if the shell tried to interpret the binary as a shell script!? "fsck ..." occasionally fails after stage 5 with a memory fault. "ps" fails, but "ps axl" works (or vice versa); or both (doesn't) work. And so on :-((( But: There are no errors running RT-11 (it runs just fine) and RSX11/M (as I could test it). The MAINDEC test programs for CPU and memory give no errors (perhaps I should let them run much longer?). There are no errors with these disk images and E11 configured to emulate the real 11/34. The configuration: CPU: PDP11/34a without FPP memory: 128 kw (one single non-DEC board) M78?? parity module Programmer's console DL11-W for the console terminal RL11 controller (revised version) M9812 bootstrap/terminator with DL boot rom Addresses and vectors are set up correctly. What is going on? Did anyone have similar problems? I suspect that either the memory or the MMU has a random behaviour, but I'm not sure. Christian ----------------------------------------- EMail: Christian.Corti(a)studserv.uni-stuttgart.de Universität Stuttgart Fakultät für Informatik ----------------------------------------- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA38360 for pups-liszt; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 05:10:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Mon Feb 26 04:04:47 2001 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.92]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA38349 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 05:09:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk) Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14X5Yi-000G8H-0Y; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 18:06:13 +0000 Message-ID: <Uz90cvA$kUm6EwgT(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 18:04:47 +0000 To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Subject: Re: [pups] Stray Interupts References: <200102232059.f1NKxwH11017(a)moe.2bsd.com> In-Reply-To: <200102232059.f1NKxwH11017(a)moe.2bsd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U <YSkKJATYm0AxAbv6xwlBrCeVCW> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Dear All, Having got to the point where I can get ultrix trying to boot on p11 I can confirm that it complains of stray interrupts on p11 as well. A thought occurred to me over the weekend that I haven't had time to try out. Is this the toy clock. It is certainly built into p11, is it built into Bob Supnik's emulator and if so, does it generate interrupts? Regards Robin In message <200102232059.f1NKxwH11017(a)moe.2bsd.com>, Steven M. Schultz <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> writes >Hi - > >> From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> >> Maybe the Ultrix source would be a help in better understanding some >> of the internals of the hardware. > > That could well be the case. Yes, the simulator is still being > worked on and maintained. > >> My experience with Ultrix-11 up to this point would lead me to believe >> that it isn't bugs, but I can easily accept that it is overly picky. >> >> I tried RSTS. As a matter of fact, I used DSKINT to create my empty >> RP06 images. No sogn of a problem there. > > Ah, ok. That tends to reinforce the thought that Ultrix may be > too picky about something. > >> I would love to us the Begemot emulator. I have the latest version but >> I have been unable to get any of my disk images to work. Can anyone >> tell me if you can use the disk images from the other emulators and if >> so, how?? Do they have to be converted somehow like tapes?? > > Yes indeed you can use the RP06 images "bits as is". As long as > the disk image is exactly an RP06 (the only size supported that I > can see by P11) nothing more need be done. In fact that's how I > switched over from 'sim_2.x' to 'p11' - I just made a copy of the > disk image and hand crafted a p11conf file. > > Tapes need "conversion" because they have to contain information > about record lengths and end of file markers. Disk images are > a simple collection of bytes. > > Steven Schultz > sms(a)moe.2bsd.com > >p.s. here's what I use for P11's conf file - perhaps it will be of use. The > disk image "2.11BSD" is referenced on the line 'dev 0 ./2.11BSD 1999' > >--------------------p11conf------------------------ >set clock_rate 60 > >ctrl rk 017777400 0220 5 4000 >end > >ctrl rl 017774400 0160 4 4000 >end > >ctrl rp 017776700 0254 5 4000 >dev 0 ./2.11BSD 1999 >dev 1 ./junk 1999 >end > >ctrl kl >dev 017777560 060 064 4 tty_net -7 -t 10000 >dev 017776500 0300 0304 4 tty_net -7 -t 10001 >end > >ctrl mr 017777520 ./rp.boot >end > >ctrl lp 017777514 0200 4 >end > >ctrl tm 017772520 0224 5 ># dev 0 /tmp/foo >end > >ctrl qna 017774440 5 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x6c 0xf8:0x7a qna.rom >dev epp_tun tun0 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x6c 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x00 >end > ># The toy clock. ># >ctrl toy 017777526 >end ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome

24 years, 2 months

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Re: [pups] Stray Interupts

by Steven M. Schultz

Hi - > From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> > Maybe the Ultrix source would be a help in better understanding some > of the internals of the hardware. That could well be the case. Yes, the simulator is still being worked on and maintained. > My experience with Ultrix-11 up to this point would lead me to believe > that it isn't bugs, but I can easily accept that it is overly picky. > > I tried RSTS. As a matter of fact, I used DSKINT to create my empty > RP06 images. No sogn of a problem there. Ah, ok. That tends to reinforce the thought that Ultrix may be too picky about something. > I would love to us the Begemot emulator. I have the latest version but > I have been unable to get any of my disk images to work. Can anyone > tell me if you can use the disk images from the other emulators and if > so, how?? Do they have to be converted somehow like tapes?? Yes indeed you can use the RP06 images "bits as is". As long as the disk image is exactly an RP06 (the only size supported that I can see by P11) nothing more need be done. In fact that's how I switched over from 'sim_2.x' to 'p11' - I just made a copy of the disk image and hand crafted a p11conf file. Tapes need "conversion" because they have to contain information about record lengths and end of file markers. Disk images are a simple collection of bytes. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com p.s. here's what I use for P11's conf file - perhaps it will be of use. The disk image "2.11BSD" is referenced on the line 'dev 0 ./2.11BSD 1999' --------------------p11conf------------------------ set clock_rate 60 ctrl rk 017777400 0220 5 4000 end ctrl rl 017774400 0160 4 4000 end ctrl rp 017776700 0254 5 4000 dev 0 ./2.11BSD 1999 dev 1 ./junk 1999 end ctrl kl dev 017777560 060 064 4 tty_net -7 -t 10000 dev 017776500 0300 0304 4 tty_net -7 -t 10001 end ctrl mr 017777520 ./rp.boot end ctrl lp 017777514 0200 4 end ctrl tm 017772520 0224 5 # dev 0 /tmp/foo end ctrl qna 017774440 5 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x6c 0xf8:0x7a qna.rom dev epp_tun tun0 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x6c 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x00 end # The toy clock. # ctrl toy 017777526 end

24 years, 2 months

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[pups] Stray Interupts

by Bill Gunshannon

The Ultrix-11 saga continues but some progress is being made. Has anyone run into a problem with stray interupts when using RP type disks with the Supnik emulator?? While I am not sure they cause any real problem, they are an annoyance and do clutter up the console terminal. May need to figure out how to come up with a remote TTY and start doing my work (especially kermiting) from there. In the meantime, I hope to have a full Ultrix-11 development system running in the next day or so. That means building all the pieces needed for a split I&D system. And now for the obligatory question: When I tried run Ultrix-11 on my 11/93 I got a message that said: "Unknown processor. enter CPU type in R0 and continue at your own risk." Anyone know where I might find these magical numbers?? I figure if I lie and tell him it's a 73 it should at least run. Yes?? No?? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA10785 for pups-liszt; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:11:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Fri Feb 23 09:15:00 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA10781 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:11:26 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f1MNF0v08869; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:15:00 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102222315.f1MNF0v08869(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Stray Interupts In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102221454580.11275-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> from Bill Gunshannon at "Feb 22, 2001 03:02:36 pm" To: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 10:15:00 +1100 (EST) CC: PUPS Mailing List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Bill Gunshannon: > > Has anyone run into a problem with stray interupts when using RP type > disks with the Supnik emulator?? While I am not sure they cause any > real problem, they are an annoyance and do clutter up the console > terminal. May need to figure out how to come up with a remote TTY > and start doing my work (especially kermiting) from there. Are the stray interrupts being reported by the Ultrix kernel or the simulator itself. If the latter, you can always edit out the offending printfs. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA11456 for pups-liszt; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:53:26 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Fri Feb 23 11:49:48 2001 Received: from mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (mailhost.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.1]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA11452 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:53:22 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from bill(a)cs.uofs.edu) Received: from triangle.cs.uofs.edu (IDENT:root@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.172.101]) by mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA30529; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 20:52:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (bill@localhost) by triangle.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA12082; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 20:49:50 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: triangle.cs.uofs.edu: bill owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 20:49:48 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au cc: PUPS Mailing List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Stray Interupts In-Reply-To: <200102222315.f1MNF0v08869(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102222043330.12005-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Fri, 23 Feb 2001, Warren Toomey wrote: > In article by Bill Gunshannon: > > > > Has anyone run into a problem with stray interupts when using RP type > > disks with the Supnik emulator?? While I am not sure they cause any > > real problem, they are an annoyance and do clutter up the console > > terminal. May need to figure out how to come up with a remote TTY > > and start doing my work (especially kermiting) from there. > > Are the stray interrupts being reported by the Ultrix kernel or the > simulator itself. If the latter, you can always edit out the offending > printfs. Nope, these are from the Ultrix kernel. The message itself is put out by the routine logsi() in errlog.c. The big question is, is this a problem with Ultrix or is this a problem with emulator that just gets ignored by the other OSes. I would be curious to know if there is a similar function in 2.11?? If so, it would be interesting to compare them and see why Ultrix sees all these stray interupts that no one else sees. All the best. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA12375 for pups-liszt; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:38:54 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Fri Feb 23 14:27:43 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA12371 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:38:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f1N4RhD19979 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 20:27:43 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 20:27:43 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102230427.f1N4RhD19979(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Stray Interupts Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi -- > From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> > Nope, these are from the Ultrix kernel. The message itself is put > out by the routine logsi() in errlog.c. The big question is, is this That the messages are coming from Ultrix and not the simulator is also is easily determined by grep'ing the simulator sources - no such message string that I can see. > a problem with Ultrix or is this a problem with emulator that just > gets ignored by the other OSes. I would be curious to know if there > is a similar function in 2.11?? If so, it would be interesting to There's no direct counterpart to 'logsi' in 2.11BSD. The only 'stray interrupt' messages 2.11 can produce all come out of networking drivers (the LH/DH "IMP" driver if_acc for example). The "big disk" support ('rp') was done though by Bob without access to a real honest to DEC RP11 controller. I think he looked at various driver sources and perhaps at 2.11's "xp" driver (I vaguely recall sending him the xp.c and necessary include files). > compare them and see why Ultrix sees all these stray interupts that > no one else sees. Various things suggest themself to me: It might just be that Ultrix is overly picky, there's something not 100% accurate in the simulator's delivering interrupts or Ultrix-11 has a bug. I haven't heard of RT-11 having a problem - perhaps someone could try that and see what happens. The other thing you might try is the Begemot emulator "p11". It keeps _vastly_ better time than 'sim_2.3d' and has an emulated DEQNA so the machine can be placed on a network. P11's also quite a bit more efficient/fast. Configuration can be puzzling but sample config files are available (from various PUPS folks who run P11). Steven Schultz sms(a)Moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA14553 for pups-liszt; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:47:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Fri Feb 23 23:43:41 2001 Received: from mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (mailhost.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.1]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA14549 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 00:47:17 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from bill(a)cs.uofs.edu) Received: from triangle.cs.uofs.edu (IDENT:root@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.172.101]) by mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA32076; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:45:54 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (bill@localhost) by triangle.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id IAA12499; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:43:42 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: triangle.cs.uofs.edu: bill owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:43:41 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Stray Interupts In-Reply-To: <200102230427.f1N4RhD19979(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102230834350.12446-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > The "big disk" support ('rp') was done though by Bob without access > to a real honest to DEC RP11 controller. I think he looked at various > driver sources and perhaps at 2.11's "xp" driver (I vaguely recall > sending him the xp.c and necessary include files). Does Bob (or anybody for that matter) still maintain the emulator?? Maybe the Ultrix source would be a help in better understanding some of the internals of the hardware. > > > compare them and see why Ultrix sees all these stray interupts that > > no one else sees. > > Various things suggest themself to me: It might just be that Ultrix is > overly picky, there's something not 100% accurate in the simulator's > delivering interrupts or Ultrix-11 has a bug. My experience with Ultrix-11 up to this point would lead me to believe that it isn't bugs, but I can easily accept that it is overly picky. That's why I thought the sources might be a big help in tuning the emulator. > > I haven't heard of RT-11 having a problem - perhaps someone could > try that and see what happens. I tried RSTS. As a matter of fact, I used DSKINT to create my empty RP06 images. No sogn of a problem there. > > The other thing you might try is the Begemot emulator "p11". It > keeps _vastly_ better time than 'sim_2.3d' and has an emulated DEQNA I am using 2.5a of the Supnik emulator. > so the machine can be placed on a network. P11's also quite a bit > more efficient/fast. Configuration can be puzzling but sample > config files are available (from various PUPS folks who run P11). I would love to us the Begemot emulator. I have the latest version but I have been unable to get any of my disk images to work. Can anyone tell me if you can use the disk images from the other emulators and if so, how?? Do they have to be converted somehow like tapes?? bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA14986 for pups-liszt; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 02:03:06 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Lars Brinkhoff <lars(a)nocrew.org> Sat Feb 24 00:59:02 2001 Received: from junk.nocrew.org (mail(a)junk.nocrew.org [212.73.17.42]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA14982 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 02:02:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from lars(a)junk.nocrew.org) Received: from lars by junk.nocrew.org with local (Exim 3.12 #1 (Debian)) id 14WJgU-0004lq-00; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 15:59:02 +0100 To: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Stray Interupts References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102230834350.12446-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> From: Lars Brinkhoff <lars(a)nocrew.org> Organization: nocrew Date: 23 Feb 2001 15:59:02 +0100 In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102230834350.12446-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> Message-ID: <85d7c9xx6x.fsf(a)junk.nocrew.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> writes: > On Thu, 22 Feb 2001, Steven M. Schultz wrote: > > The "big disk" support ('rp') was done though by Bob without access > > to a real honest to DEC RP11 controller. I think he looked at various > > driver sources and perhaps at 2.11's "xp" driver (I vaguely recall > > sending him the xp.c and necessary include files). > Does Bob (or anybody for that matter) still maintain the emulator?? Version 2.5a was released on January 1, and Bob recently asked me to update a pointer to his simulator web page, so I'd say he does. -- http://lars.nocrew.org/ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA17804 for pups-liszt; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 03:51:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Sat Feb 24 02:42:52 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA17791 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 03:50:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f1NGgqP08664 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:42:52 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:42:52 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102231642.f1NGgqP08664(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Stray Interupts Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Lars Brinkhoff <lars(a)nocrew.org> > > Version 2.5a was released on January 1, and Bob recently asked me > to update a pointer to his simulator web page, so I'd say he does. That shows how long it has been since I ran that simulator ;-) I'll pull it in just to have the latest version around to test with. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com

24 years, 3 months

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[pups] WTD TS11, TS05 in UK

by robin.birch＠postoffice.co.uk

Dear All, I have a Dilog TS11 controller but no TSV05 or TS11 drive. Has anyone got such a thing in the UK that they would be willing to part with, sell, swap or whatever. Ideally I would like one of the Dilog 880 drives with the free-standing, i.e., not rack mounting, cabinet. Regards Robin

24 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] creating disk images

by Carl Lowenstein

> From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Wed Feb 21 09:46 PST 2001 > Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:29:48 -0500 (EST) > From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> > To: PUPS Mailing List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> > Subject: [pups] creating disk images > > I know it is probably simple, but my experience is with the real > thing and this is the first time I have tried to do anything but > play with one of the emulators. > > How do you create new blank disk images for the Supnik emulator?? > In particular, I am trying to create some RM03's to give me more > room to work with Ultrix-11. I am trying to make some install > kits on different media so that more people will be able to get > it, not only on emulators, but also on real machines, where it > is much more fun. :-) I have done it with dd if=/dev/zero of=newdisk.dsk bs=1k count=10240 to make 10MB RL02 images. Followed by the lightly-documented step in the Supnik emulator of attaching the disk image and writing the badblock table. Followed by (for RT11) INIT/NOQ DL1 Corresponding for a Unix system would be mkfs(8) or newfs(8), whichever you have. I think it is only the RL disks that need the badblock step. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA02015 for pups-liszt; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:30:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Feb 22 10:34:08 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA02011 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:30:31 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f1M0YAG05750; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:34:10 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102220034.f1M0YAG05750(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] Re: V6 image for 11/23 In-Reply-To: <3A940637.83A0591B(a)tampabay.rr.com> from Ken Wellsch at "Feb 21, 2001 01:17:27 pm" To: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 11:34:08 +1100 (EST) CC: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Ken Wellsch: > My part was one of deciphering what came off an old 800 BPI > mag tape a decade ago and caring about preserving this bit of the past. > > [Thanks go to those] who handed me the tape from the > Computer Graphics Lab at U of Waterloo (and the CGL folks for hanging > onto the tape in their library) to folks like Alan Bowler who kindly > pulled a raw image of the tape off on our old Honeywell system because > all our UNIX systems did not support 800 BPI on their tape drives any > more... > -- Ken Ken, if this image isn't already in the archive, can you send it in? Thanks, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA05418 for pups-liszt; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:35:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

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[pups] Ultrix bootable disk images in UNIX Archive

by Warren Toomey

Hi all, Bill Gunshannon has sent me his Ultrix-3.1 disk images, and they are now in the UNIX Archive at PDP-11/Boot_Images/Ultrix-3.1. I've knocked up a short README from his e-mails too. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA96042 for pups-liszt; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:42:51 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Ian King" <iking(a)microsoft.com> Wed Feb 21 15:37:43 2001 Received: from mail2.microsoft.com (mail2.microsoft.com [131.107.3.124]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA96038 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:42:47 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.1.52 by mail2.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 21:38:56 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: from red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.12.71]) by inet-imc-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Tue, 20 Feb 2001 21:37:44 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.4418.65 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C09BC8.69E15122" Subject: [pups] VTServer 2.0 - Note from the Field Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 21:37:43 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D1C0(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D1C0(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Thread-Topic: [pups] Ultrix bootable disk images in UNIX Archive Thread-Index: AcCbtWpwtFsirk86QMGCJq7E7o8uUgAENuCI From: "Ian King" <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>, "PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Feb 2001 05:37:44.0501 (UTC) FILETIME=[6A447650:01C09BC8] Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C09BC8.69E15122 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 VGhlIGdvb2QgbmV3cyBpczogV2FycmVuJ3MgVlRTZXJ2ZXIgMi4wIGlzIGN1cnJlbnRseSBjb3B5 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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Feb 21 15:59:26 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA96162 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:55:41 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.2/8.9.3) id f1L5xRY02765; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:59:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200102210559.f1L5xRY02765(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] VTServer 2.0 - Note from the Field In-Reply-To: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C0235D1C0(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> from Ian King at "Feb 20, 2001 09:37:43 pm" To: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:59:26 +1100 (EST) CC: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Ian King: [ some strange Microsoft e-mail format, Ian can you send plain ASCII next time, ta! ] > A couple of notes about this: > * With a real PDP-11, I found it necessary to use the stty command > for no hardware handshaking. On Linux 2.2 and using COM1, it's: > > stty 9600 cs8 clocal -crtscts < /dev/ttyS0 > > * I think .vtrc may have changed from the earlier version; I tried > to just hack a copy of the old one and found the format had changed. > The first line is the shell command to set the device parameters (as set > forth above), the second line is the device itself (e.g. /dev/ttyS0), > and the following lines are the "tape" records. Warren, may I suggest > adding some text to the readme about this? I had to figure it out.... Yep, that's documented in http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver/vtserver/vtreadme.txt as follows: The file .vtrc is the server's configuration file. Lines beginning with hashes are ignored. The first (non-hashed) gives a shell command to set the correct speed and parity of the serial line. The second line names the serial device. Remaining lines name the fictitious tape's records, and should be tinyboot, copy, and the name of your disk image. > * It's not extremely clear from the readme, but start VTServer > first, then the PDP-11 code. It wasn't that hard to key in with the > programmer's panel. :-) Thanks, can you suggest changes to the above document which would help to clarify this? Also, Fred van Kempen has added commands to send down the bootstrap code if the PDP-11 has ODT. I'll add this to the server once I get the code from Fred. > Please don't get me wrong, I'm grateful that you wrote this and not me. > :-) But you did ask for feedback, and I'm sending this to the PUPS list > with the hope it will help anyone else with a similar situation. Thanks Ian, yes I'm always happy for feedback. You might also try the two Ultrix RL02 images that Bill Gunshannon also donated to the archive, as he booted these on an 11/23 ok. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA99815 for pups-liszt; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 04:33:22 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Thu Feb 22 03:29:48 2001 Received: from mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (mailhost.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.1]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA99811 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 04:33:17 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from bill(a)cs.uofs.edu) Received: from triangle.cs.uofs.edu (IDENT:root@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.172.101]) by mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id MAA25143 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:31:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (bill@localhost) by triangle.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id MAA10589 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:29:49 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: triangle.cs.uofs.edu: bill owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:29:48 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> To: PUPS Mailing List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] creating disk images Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102211224240.10168-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I know it is probably simple, but my experience is with the real thing and this is the first time I have tried to do anything but play with one of the emulators. How do you create new blank disk images for the Supnik emulator?? In particular, I am trying to create some RM03's to give me more room to work with Ultrix-11. I am trying to make some install kits on different media so that more people will be able to get it, not only on emulators, but also on real machines, where it is much more fun. :-) I have tried using the empty files the emulator creates. I have tried dd'ing /dev/zero into a file to the size of the disk. I have tried using format from xxdp. Nothing seems to work. Is there a specific procedure to follow?? Any help greatly appreciated. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA99937 for pups-liszt; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 05:03:17 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Ian King" <iking(a)microsoft.com> Thu Feb 22 03:58:58 2001 Received: from mail4.microsoft.com (mail4.microsoft.com [131.107.3.122]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA99933 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 05:03:13 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.1.52 by mail4.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:59:20 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: from red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com ([157.54.12.71]) by inet-imc-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:58:58 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.4418.65 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Subject: RE: [pups] VTServer 2.0 - Note from the Field Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:58:58 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEBCC(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [pups] VTServer 2.0 - Note from the Field Thread-Index: AcCbyoAC501SlnMLQC+diXLE8CEbYgAZSNxQ From: "Ian King" <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Cc: "PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Feb 2001 17:58:58.0753 (UTC) FILETIME=[F6FCC310:01C09C2F] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au id FAA99934 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Further good news: it boots! I have a V6 image from Ken Wellsch (thanks, Ken) booting on my 11/34. Now I have lots to figure out.... -- Ian PS: Warren, I was mailing from the Web access client, so it was probably HTML - sorry. -----Original Message----- From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 9:59 PM To: Ian King Cc: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society Subject: Re: [pups] VTServer 2.0 - Note from the Field In article by Ian King: [ some strange Microsoft e-mail format, Ian can you send plain ASCII next time, ta! ] > A couple of notes about this: > * With a real PDP-11, I found it necessary to use the stty command > for no hardware handshaking. On Linux 2.2 and using COM1, it's: > > stty 9600 cs8 clocal -crtscts < /dev/ttyS0 > > * I think .vtrc may have changed from the earlier version; I tried > to just hack a copy of the old one and found the format had changed. > The first line is the shell command to set the device parameters (as set > forth above), the second line is the device itself (e.g. /dev/ttyS0), > and the following lines are the "tape" records. Warren, may I suggest > adding some text to the readme about this? I had to figure it out.... Yep, that's documented in http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver/vtserver/vtreadme.txt as follows: The file .vtrc is the server's configuration file. Lines beginning with hashes are ignored. The first (non-hashed) gives a shell command to set the correct speed and parity of the serial line. The second line names the serial device. Remaining lines name the fictitious tape's records, and should be tinyboot, copy, and the name of your disk image. > * It's not extremely clear from the readme, but start VTServer > first, then the PDP-11 code. It wasn't that hard to key in with the > programmer's panel. :-) Thanks, can you suggest changes to the above document which would help to clarify this? Also, Fred van Kempen has added commands to send down the bootstrap code if the PDP-11 has ODT. I'll add this to the server once I get the code from Fred. > Please don't get me wrong, I'm grateful that you wrote this and not me. > :-) But you did ask for feedback, and I'm sending this to the PUPS list > with the hope it will help anyone else with a similar situation. Thanks Ian, yes I'm always happy for feedback. You might also try the two Ultrix RL02 images that Bill Gunshannon also donated to the archive, as he booted these on an 11/23 ok. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA00120 for pups-liszt; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 05:21:05 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] Thu Feb 22 04:17:27 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA00113 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 05:21:01 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1LIHRa07936; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:17:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A940637.83A0591B(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:17:27 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.38 i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> CC: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au, PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] VTServer 2.0 - Note from the Field References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEBCC(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Ian King wrote: > > Further good news: it boots! I have a V6 image from Ken Wellsch > (thanks, Ken) booting on my 11/34. Now I have lots to figure out.... > -- Ian > > PS: Warren, I was mailing from the Web access client, so it was probably > HTML - sorry. I likely come across as an arrogant SOB - I hardly deserve credit for the image. My part was one of deciphering what came off an old 800 BPI mag tape a decade ago and caring about preserving this bit of the past. Folks you don't know like Ian! Allen who handed me the tape from the Computer Graphics Lab at U of Waterloo (and the CGL folks for hanging onto the tape in their library) to folks like Alan Bowler who kindly pulled a raw image of the tape off on our old Honeywell system because all our UNIX systems did not support 800 BPI on their tape drives any more... Those are just some of the people that preceded that image - not even mentioning the folks that brought you V6 in the first place... Then afterward folks like Warren for tirelessly making PUPS happen... Cheers, -- Ken

24 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] What is a 21-21858 chip?

by Carl Lowenstein

> From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sat Feb 17 18:54 PST 2001 > X-Authentication-Warning: triangle.cs.uofs.edu: bill owned process doing -bs > Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 21:43:51 -0500 (EST) > From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> > To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > Subject: Re: [pups] What is a 21-21858 chip? > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what is being discussed here, but > I think the difference is that without the FP11 all you have are > 4 simple Floating Point Instructions. FADD, FSUB, FMUL and FDIV. > The FP11 adds a number of additional Instructions. I have never > had a machine with the FP11 (Hmmmm, wonder if my new 11/93 has it?) > so I don't know them off the top of my head, but my Macro-11 book > is near at hand if anybody wants me to look it up. You're missing something. The FADD FSUB FMUL FDIV was first used in the 11/40 FIS (optional) floating-point instruction set. It was later implemented as an optional chip add-on for the LSI-11 and LSI-11/2. Single-precision only, and stack oriented. The 11/45 Floating-point Processor had about 30 instructions and had both single-precision and double-precision modes, and a bunch of registers. Typical instruction mnemonics include ADDF SUBF MULF DIVF MODF and the same with last character changed to D for Double. The LSI-11/23 optional FP chip followed the 11/45 FPP style. The 11/73 CPU chip implemented the 11/45 FPP in microcode, and the 11/73 FPP add-on implemented the 11/45 FPP in much faster microcode. carl

24 years, 3 months

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[pups] Re: Yet another Ultrix-11 update

by bill＠cs.scranton.edu

[This is a courtesy copy of a message which was also posted to the newsgroup(s) shown in the header.] Looks like there may be a delay in getting Ultrix-11 to the PUPS archives, my email to warren just bounced!! Hopefully, he will see this at some point and get back to me. Sorry everybody. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>

24 years, 3 months

1
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[pups] Yet another Ultrix-11 update

by bill＠cs.scranton.edu

[This is a courtesy copy of a message which was also posted to the newsgroup(s) shown in the header.] For what it's worth, the time has finally arrived for others to get a chance to play with Ultrix-11 again. I have sent two RL02 images off to Warren to find their way intot he archives (if he so desires!!) They are not without their problems, however. I built them on a MicroPDP-11/23. Configuration: CPU 11/23+ Memory 3072K 2 RL02 disks 1 TS11 tape Apparently, this means more to the Ultrix than to something likr RT11. Using the Supnik emulator, I was unable to build a kernel and even vi core dumps. But then, I am not really sure just what the Supnik emulator is emulating. Could it perhaps be emulating a UNIBUS box and the fact that I do not have support for the map be a problem?? We'll see eventually, I'm sure. I tried the demo version of E11 but it lacks sufficient memory for this to do anything. No vi (just says :too big"), no sysgen (just hangs). If anybody from Dbit is listening, I don't suppose there's any chance you would be willing to give me copies of the full DOS and Linux versions for educational use that I could use to test this out?? I still haven't been able to get into the Begemot site, so I don't know if it will work with their emulator or not. Are there any others out there worth trying it with?? But, anyway, there you have it. Warren wil probsabyl have it up before too long. I am willing to answer any questions I can for people trying to get it running. All the best. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA85108 for pups-liszt; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 03:58:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

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[pups] GNU binutils

by Lars Brinkhoff

Hello, I just wanted to let you know that GNU binutils now supports PDP-11 processors and 2.11BSD binary file formats, at least to some degree. Thanks to all the people who explained the details of the PDP-11. More info: http://pdp11.nocrew.org/ -- http://lars.nocrew.org/ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA84978 for pups-liszt; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 03:39:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] What is a 21-21858 chip?

by Bill Gunshannon

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what is being discussed here, but I think the difference is that without the FP11 all you have are 4 simple Floating Point Instructions. FADD, FSUB, FMUL and FDIV. The FP11 adds a number of additional Instructions. I have never had a machine with the FP11 (Hmmmm, wonder if my new 11/93 has it?) so I don't know them off the top of my head, but my Macro-11 book is near at hand if anybody wants me to look it up. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA75242 for pups-liszt; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 20:23:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> Sun Feb 18 19:19:45 2001 Received: from Tempo.Update.UU.SE (IDENT:0@Tempo.Update.UU.SE [130.238.19.17]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA75238 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 20:23:12 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from bqt(a)update.uu.se) Received: from localhost (bqt@localhost) by Tempo.Update.UU.SE (8.11.2/8.11.2/Update-Iltempogigante) with ESMTP id f1I9Jje18696; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 10:19:45 +0100 Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 10:19:45 +0100 (CET) From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)update.uu.se> To: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] What is a 21-21858 chip? In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102172140040.19293-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.21.0102181017040.18540-100000(a)Tempo.Update.UU.SE> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Sat, 17 Feb 2001, Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > Maybe I'm just misunderstanding what is being discussed here, but > I think the difference is that without the FP11 all you have are > 4 simple Floating Point Instructions. FADD, FSUB, FMUL and FDIV. No, that's the FIS instructions. They are only available on the 11/35, 11/40, LSI-11 and perhaps some other model that I don't remember. The J11 has the F11 in microcode. The FP11 for the J11 is an accelerator. > The FP11 adds a number of additional Instructions. I have never > had a machine with the FP11 (Hmmmm, wonder if my new 11/93 has it?) > so I don't know them off the top of my head, but my Macro-11 book > is near at hand if anybody wants me to look it up. If someone wants the full F11 instruction set, I think it's available on the net. Anyhow, yes, your 11/93 have the F11 instruction set. I also think that the 11/93 cpu always have the accelerator option. (Hmmm, I'd like to get my hands on an 11/93 CPU, anyone have an extra? :-) Johnny Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus || on a psychedelic trip email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA75522 for pups-liszt; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:26:56 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] What is a 21-21858 chip?

by jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de

On 17 Feb, Johnny Billquist wrote: > It's faster. There is FP11 microcode in the J11, but it's really slow from > what I gathered. The separate FP11 could be regarded more as an > accelerator. Ahhh, interesting to hear. I think this will be a nice machine. 11/73 with the FP accelerator, 4MB RAM, DLV11-J, RQDX3 with RD54 (or later Dilog ESDI MSCP adapter with one or two 300MB ESDI drives), TK50, DELQA all together in a BA23. So there are only two things left: Boot (E)RPOM card and time to get 2.11BSD installed. -- tschuess, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA76792 for pups-liszt; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 01:34:49 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Mon Feb 19 00:31:34 2001 Received: from mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (mailhost.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.1]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA76788 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 01:34:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from bill(a)cs.uofs.edu) Received: from triangle.cs.uofs.edu (IDENT:root@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.172.101]) by mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA13792 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 09:33:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (bill@localhost) by triangle.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id JAA20139 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 09:31:37 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: triangle.cs.uofs.edu: bill owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 09:31:34 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: [pups] board id help and another Ultrix-11 update In-Reply-To: <200102171931.f1HJVNZ00879(a)unixag-kl.fh-kl.de> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102180918430.19293-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I have finally found the time to play with my 11/93 (the bad news is it is an un-recognizable CPU for the Ultrix-11 install tape, but we'll cross that bridge later.) Other than the usual compliment of MicroPDP boards (Ethernet, RQDX3) this one has a board made by a company called "Data Systems Design". The Model appears to be an 808836-05 Rev.K. It has a 26pin Berg connector in one corner for which I do not have a cable. Now the big question. Is there anyone here who knows what this card is and in particular what the wiring of the Berg connector looks like?? Why you ask?? Because with this card in the machine thinks it has an RL01/RL02 controller and an RX02 controller. If this is some kind of disk controller, I would love to know what disks it hooks up to. BUt with only a single 26 pin connector, I can't imagine what disks it would use. If anyone has seen one of these or especially if you have documentation, I would love to hear about it. Also, here is another Ultrix-11 update. In order to comply with the KISS principle, I have opted for a simple RL02 based system to do my image dumps. Hopefully, in the next day or two I will be sending a tar file to Warren for the archive that will contain a pair of RL02 images that comprise a simple bootable system for the 11/23 and if that works, I am going to also try to make a TS11 tape image of the install tape so that people can opt for whatever configuration suits their taste. I will send something to the list when I get this far. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA78286 for pups-liszt; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 05:11:47 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "David C. Jenner" <djenner(a)halcyon.com> Mon Feb 19 04:08:26 2001 Received: from smtp10.nwnexus.com (smtp10.nwnexus.com [206.63.63.53]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA78282 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 05:11:42 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from djenner(a)halcyon.com) Received: from halcyon.com (jenner.net [206.63.251.66]) by smtp10.nwnexus.com (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA13964; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 10:08:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <3A900F9A.87F19B97(a)halcyon.com> Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 10:08:26 -0800 From: "David C. Jenner" <djenner(a)halcyon.com> Organization: Northwest Nexus Net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] board id help and another Ultrix-11 update References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102180918430.19293-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Bill, The DSD card is likely for a DSD 880 system, which has one 8" floppy and one (8"?) Winchester drive. The combo emulates an RX02 and a couple of RL01/RL02 drives. The controller card is basically useless unless you have the DSD chassis with the floppy, harddrive, and custom electronics. The DSD 880 is not uncommon, so you might be able to find one around. Dave Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > I have finally found the time to play with my 11/93 (the bad news is > it is an un-recognizable CPU for the Ultrix-11 install tape, but we'll > cross that bridge later.) Other than the usual compliment of MicroPDP > boards (Ethernet, RQDX3) this one has a board made by a company called > "Data Systems Design". The Model appears to be an 808836-05 Rev.K. > It has a 26pin Berg connector in one corner for which I do not have a > cable. Now the big question. Is there anyone here who knows what this > card is and in particular what the wiring of the Berg connector looks > like?? Why you ask?? Because with this card in the machine thinks it > has an RL01/RL02 controller and an RX02 controller. If this is some > kind of disk controller, I would love to know what disks it hooks up to. > BUt with only a single 26 pin connector, I can't imagine what disks it > would use. If anyone has seen one of these or especially if you have > documentation, I would love to hear about it. > > Also, here is another Ultrix-11 update. In order to comply with the > KISS principle, I have opted for a simple RL02 based system to do my > image dumps. Hopefully, in the next day or two I will be sending a > tar file to Warren for the archive that will contain a pair of RL02 > images that comprise a simple bootable system for the 11/23 and if > that works, I am going to also try to make a TS11 tape image of the > install tape so that people can opt for whatever configuration suits > their taste. I will send something to the list when I get this far. > > bill > > -- > Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves > bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. > University of Scranton | > Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>

24 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] What is a 21-21858 chip?

by robin.birch＠postoffice.co.uk

FP11 floating point processor (I think) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA63969 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 04:23:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

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[pups] What is a 21-21858 chip?

by jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de

Hi. I have two PDP11/73 CPUs (M8192). On one module is the 40 pin socket empty. On the other module is a 40 pin Chip labeld 21-21858 in the socket. What chip is that? -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA59843 for pups-liszt; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 22:46:42 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] RE: Unix Archive mirror site offer

by jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de

On 16 Feb, Martijn van Buul wrote: [third party disks on RQDX} > I've done exactly the same thing (but it only was an ST225, AKA RD31) on > an RQDX3 controller. You need the XXDP 2.5 diagnostic kit for that. Could this be placed in the archive? It would be nice to have this public available. > Having a couple of 5.25" HD diskdrives really helps. Some of these > drives (the older, the better ;) can be used as RX33 drive I connected a generic Mitzumi 5.25" FDD to the RQDX3 in my MicroVAX III and it just worked. Even booting from it was no problem. -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/ Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA59734 for pups-liszt; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 22:15:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

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[pups] RE: Unix Archive mirror site offer

by Fred N. van Kempen

Warren, Good news so far. I did some work on VTserver 2.0, and added the uODT code so it uploads the PDP-11 boot code to the machine and gets it going. That works fine.. "copy" gets loaded, and I can transfer stuff from and to the machine's RX50 and RD51 units. My biggest worry next, of course, is using an emulator to emulate my machine (which is a MicroPDP-11/23, by the way) and its disks, and build a working set of file systems. Those I can then transfer to the raw disk. When playing, I noticed that the RD51 is a plain Seagate ST412 MFM drive... did anyone try to use other MFM disks with the RQDX series controllers? I can probably get some very cheap ST251 40MB drives.. ;) --fred > -----Original Message----- > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] > Sent: dinsdag 13 februari 2001 2:22 > To: Fred N. van Kempen > Subject: Re: Unix Archive mirror site offer > > > In article by Fred N. van Kempen: > > Here's a promise... if I can get my MicroVAX 3400 back up > (on Ultrix 4.4), > > I'll run the archive on that box... (pups.microwalt.net or > > tuhs.microwalt.net) > > so all the old stuff is hosted on old stuff... otherwise > it's going to be a > > Sun SPARCstation Classic- also an old box, but not quite as old :) > > Excellent. I believe Caldera have bought the rights to UNIX > from SCO, and > I"ve heard rumours that they might drop the ``click on the > license'' thing, > so if that happens we can make the archive available with no > passwords. > > > Also: I am working with Bill Grunshannon and Steven Schultz > on getting my > > own > > MicroPDP-11/23 back up... we need to include your VTserver > stuff into the > > Ultrix-11 source tree, recompile parts, move into binary > tree, and create a > > new tape which I can then load. Bill has a working 11/73 > with Ultrix-11 on > > it, > > and also has an 11/93 with same. > > > > My new VTserver can load in and write entire disk images now, > so it should > be usable to install an Ultrix disk image. > > http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. > > I'll be back at work tomorrow or the nxet day. > > Cheers, > Warren > ********************************************************************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com ********************************************************************** Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA58787 for pups-liszt; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:14:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> Fri Feb 16 18:11:02 2001 Received: from mud.stack.nl (mud.stack.nl [131.155.141.98]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id TAA58783 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:13:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from martijnb(a)stack.nl) Received: by mud.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 587) id 3C30C7F07; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:11:02 +0100 (CET) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:11:02 +0100 From: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] RE: Unix Archive mirror site offer Message-ID: <20010216091102.A26535(a)mud.stack.nl> Reply-To: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> References: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32C31@MWNT4> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.3i In-Reply-To: <6F63E31101C6D41196490008C7B2BFC32C31@MWNT4>; from Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl on Thu, Feb 15, 2001 at 04:01:45AM +0100 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Fred N. van Kempen wrote: > When playing, I noticed that the RD51 is a plain Seagate ST412 MFM drive... > did anyone try to use other MFM disks with the RQDX series controllers? I > can probably get some very cheap ST251 40MB drives.. ;) I've done exactly the same thing (but it only was an ST225, AKA RD31) on an RQDX3 controller. You need the XXDP 2.5 diagnostic kit for that. Having a couple of 5.25" HD diskdrives really helps. Some of these drives (the older, the better ;) can be used as RX33 drive, which greatly reduces the problem of creating a XXDP bootdisk with the needed utilities, since you can write these disks in a (second :) 5.25" drive on a standard PC. Finding a supply of 1.2 MB 5.25" disks can be a bigger problem - I'm very happy with my newly found pack of *fresh* disks. I may still have such a diskimage floating around somewhere (Yup, I seem to have). The basic idea is to low-level format the MFM drive, and make it look like a genuine DEC drive. This is a lot easier if the drives you want to use were also sold as DEC drives (which is the case with the ST251 - it's also known as the RD32). If not, you'll have to provide a lot more information about the drive - never really tried that. This said, I sucessfully low-levelled a 21MB Miniscribe (with the same CHS-layout as a ST225) using the RD31 parameters. -- Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA59199 for pups-liszt; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 20:18:56 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

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[pups] Checksums in the UNIX Archive

by Warren Toomey

----- Forwarded message from Fred N. van Kempen ----- Warren, False alert... Ultrix-11 V3.1 source tape file is NOT corrupted. My WinZIP was - I use NT at work, download stuff, and take it home with me, to load onto the Unix machines. The Unix boxes have no problem with the files... ----- End of forwarded message from Fred N. van Kempen ----- Hi all, I'm back from holidays. With regards to corrupt files in the UNIX Archive, yes it looks like I have had a few hit. I'll check through my old backups for a clean version of Ken Wellsch's 6th Edition disk image. There is a checksums file in the archive: /checksums, with MD5 checksums for all files. If you do suspect a file is damaged, please check to see if the MD5 checksum matches that in the /checksums file. Also, has anybody tried out the VTserver 2.0 alpha program?! I'm going to be flat out here at work for a month or two, but I will try to add support for things other than plain copying of disk images. Cheers, Warren

24 years, 3 months

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[pups] /bin/ps (and /var/run/psdatabase) corrupt in installation set?

by Martijn van Buul

Oy. I kind of solved my problems with ps, just by recompiling the source.. I think I've got reasons to believe that /bin/ps as distributed in the installation set on minnie is corrupt; it only dumps core. As a side note, /var/run/psdatabase is corrupt too; normally this wouldn't matter (since ps -U recompiles this, and since ps -U is run in /etc/rc), but since ps dumps core... Anyway; If I would've known about /var/run/psdatabase, it might have prevented me from searching a non-existant bug during the last few months :) -- Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant.

24 years, 3 months

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[pups] Strange problems on an uPDP 11/53+

by Martijn van Buul

After 52 days, my uPDP 11/53+ has suddenly been acting rather strange. /usr/include got 'replaced' by /usr/new, to be precise. At the time, I was the only user. Seeing this, I immediately halted the system, expecting a load of file system errors upon boot. None showed up, and /usr/include is back to itself again. However, programs which *used* to be running perfectly (like my work-in-progress ps) suddenly fail, with a "not enough memory for saving info". Any hints? -- Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA70139 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:46:34 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Tue Feb 6 10:35:17 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA70135 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:46:30 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f160ZHg18114 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:35:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:35:17 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102060035.f160ZHg18114(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Strange problems on an uPDP 11/53+ Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> > After 52 days, my uPDP 11/53+ has suddenly been acting rather strange. > /usr/include got 'replaced' by /usr/new, to be precise. At the time, Oops! > I was the only user. Seeing this, I immediately halted the system, > expecting a load of file system errors upon boot. None showed up, and > /usr/include is back to itself again. However, programs which *used* > to be running perfectly (like my work-in-progress ps) suddenly fail, > with a "not enough memory for saving info". > Any hints? How much memory is on the system now after the reboot. The only thing that pops into mind is that the system is running without enough memory. If part of the memory on the system dropped out earlier that would (possibly) explain the strange behaviour was seen. Rebooting/reseting the system would cause the system to recount memory. A program can get 'ENOMEM' as an error two ways: 1) exceeding the maximum 64KB dataspace (stack + data) or 2) the system has run out of swap or the maps ('coremap' and/or 'swapmap') have become too fragmented. Two commands that can be useful in obtaining more information are sysctl hw and pstat -s "sysctl hw" will give several lines of output - the two you'd be interested in are hw.physmem = 2097152 hw.usermem = 415744 'physmem' is the amount of memory physically present and 'usermem' is the amount current free and available for user programs. "pstat -s" will give a swap space usage summary. Steven Schultz sms(a)Moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA71926 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:41:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> Tue Feb 6 17:39:28 2001 Received: from mud.stack.nl (mud.stack.nl [131.155.141.98]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA71922 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:41:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from martijnb(a)stack.nl) Received: by mud.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 587) id D00657F08; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 08:39:28 +0100 (CET) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 08:39:28 +0100 From: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Strange problems on an uPDP 11/53+ Message-ID: <20010206083928.A15141(a)mud.stack.nl> Reply-To: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> References: <200102060035.f160ZHg18114(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.3i In-Reply-To: <200102060035.f160ZHg18114(a)moe.2bsd.com>; from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 04:35:17PM -0800 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Steven M. Schultz wrote: > Hi - > > > From: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> > > After 52 days, my uPDP 11/53+ has suddenly been acting rather strange. > > /usr/include got 'replaced' by /usr/new, to be precise. At the time, > > Oops! Well, strange things are afoot indeed. About the same time, 1 machine crashed (A DEC Alpha running OpenBSD), 2 started acting very strangely, and had to be rebooted (My PDP, and a Wintel box running Windows 2000), and a 4th machine (A Wintel box running Minix-VMD) suddenly had some problems reading his harddisk and using its network (but recovered). The strange thing is that these machines aren't related in any way but one: they're standing quite near to eachother. Do I hear EMC somewhere? > > Any hints? > > How much memory is on the system now after the reboot. 1.5 MB. 798 Kilowords. > The only thing that pops into mind is that the system is running > without enough memory. If part of the memory on the system dropped > out earlier that would (possibly) explain the strange behaviour was > seen. Rebooting/reseting the system would cause the system to > recount memory. Well, the machine had 1.5 MB before it crashed.. It's doubtlessly some memory fault, but it *seems* to be a temporal one. > > "sysctl hw" will give several lines of output - the two you'd be > interested in are > > hw.physmem = 2097152 hw.physmem = 1572864 > hw.usermem = 415744 hw.usermem = 313472 > 'physmem' is the amount of memory physically present and 'usermem' is > the amount current free and available for user programs. Should be enough. 'cc' works without problems - only my ps with debug info seems to be affected; it might not be a memory issue, but a "ps can't determine the right amount of processes"-issue.. I've checked it, and this seems to be the case. Ps thinks that there are 0 processes running, and does a outargs = (struct psout *)calloc(nproc, sizeof(struct psout)); on that. With 'nproc' being 0, this returns a NULL pointer, but doesn't mean that the process is out of memory. Having no ps is very annoying; finding back those 4 children spawned by a httpd can be a nuisance then. pstat -p works, but it isn't comfortable:) > "pstat -s" will give a swap space usage summary. 15/59 swapmap entries 910 kbytes swap used, 6263 kbytes free -- Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA75027 for pups-liszt; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 03:47:05 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Wed Feb 7 02:36:03 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA75023 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 03:46:56 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f16Ga3301595; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 08:36:03 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 08:36:03 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102061636.f16Ga3301595(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pino(a)dohd.org, sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Subject: Re: [pups] Strange problems on an uPDP 11/53+ Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi -- > Well, strange things are afoot indeed. About the same time, 1 machine... > they're standing quite near to eachother. Do I hear EMC somewhere? Time to increase the shielding around the computer room, eh? ;-) > Well, the machine had 1.5 MB before it crashed.. It's doubtlessly some > memory fault, but it *seems* to be a temporal one. I do not think it is a memory/hardware problem - that was just a guess (not a very good one at that ;)). > hw.usermem = 313472 That's fine. > Should be enough. 'cc' works without problems - only my ps with debug What about the standard 'ps' that came with the system? > info seems to be affected; it might not be a memory issue, but a "ps can't > determine the right amount of processes"-issue.. > I've checked it, and this seems to be the case. Ps thinks that there are > 0 processes running, and does a > outargs = (struct psout *)calloc(nproc, sizeof(struct psout)); Ah, ok - malloc() used to actually return a non-NULL pointer when presented with a size request of 0. That was an error and was changed (I forget the exact update/patch number). There were a couple programs in the system that relied on the old behaviour and those had to be fixed. > on that. With 'nproc' being 0, this returns a NULL pointer, but doesn't > mean that the process is out of memory. Right, the ENOMEM error was overloaded by malloc(). An argument can be made that EINVAL should have been returned instead by malloc() if 0 was passed in. > Having no ps is very annoying; finding back those 4 children spawned > by a httpd can be a nuisance then. pstat -p works, but it isn't comfortable:) Are you are using the traditional 'nlist()' method of reading the kernel symbol table to look for 'nproc' and '_proc'? If so is there a permissions problem? /dev/*mem needs to be group=kmem, mode 640, the /unix image should be mode 644 and the 'ps' program setgid to kmem. If there is a problem reading the kernel symbol table then 'nproc' will remain 0 which is what you're seeing. Another way of examining some kernel variables (proc table, file table, etc) is with the "sysctl" call. It's much faster since it doesn't have to do a sequential scan of the /unix symbol table. You can look in /usr/src/ucb/w.c at the function 'readpr()' to see how to examine the proc table using sysctl. Steve

24 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] Y2K problem in ftpd?

by robin.birch＠postoffice.co.uk

Dear All, IIRC the start of this thread stated that this was on a 2.11 system. If this was so has anyone submitted the patch to Steve Schultz for consideration as a formal update? Appologies if this has already been done. Rgds Robin Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA66960 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 04:01:38 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Tue Feb 6 02:51:34 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA66955 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 04:01:30 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f15GpYd11283 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:51:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:51:34 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102051651.f15GpYd11283(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Y2K problem in ftpd? Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi -- > From: robin.birch(a)postoffice.co.uk > IIRC the start of this thread stated that this was on a 2.11 system. If this > was so has anyone submitted the patch to Steve Schultz for consideration as a > formal update? Don't worry - I saw the thread. Consider the patch submitted :) I did find it fascinating that the bug slipped thru since at one time a (obviously not detailed enough) scan of the system for 'tm_year' references was done. Thanks! Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com

24 years, 3 months

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[pups] Booting V6 on 11/34 vs 11/34A ??

by Jay Jaeger

That RK05 image boots on an 11/34A just fine. (I own one. Trust me. It just works. No fiddling required). Perhaps you have a plain 11/34, and perhaps there is some difference that matters. But they should both have MMU, but perhaps the MMU in the 34A is different than a 34 in some odd way. Do you have floating point? Maybe that's the problem. You could always try mini-unix... 8-) That should run (it ran on an 11/20). Jay Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? In article by Carl Lowenstein: > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( That's the problem. Cheers, Warren - --- --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1(a)home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA61690 for pups-liszt; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:48:38 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Jan 31 08:13:30 2001 Received: from mailserver.nktelco.net (mailserver.nktelco.net [216.206.77.3]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA61686 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:48:34 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from chd(a)nktelco.net) Received: by mailserver.nktelco.net from localhost (router,SLMail V4.1); Sun, 04 Feb 2001 17:35:38 -0500 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Received: from nktelco.net [63.238.116.228] by mailserver.nktelco.net [216.206.77.3] (SLmail 4.1.3395) with ESMTP id D0A2B493F87E11D4B0A800500424CC10 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 17:35:37 -0500 Message-ID: <3A7DDBA8.3C69A521(a)nktelco.net> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 17:46:00 -0500 From: "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: [pups] Hardware config for 2.11BSD Installation on PDP-11/73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SLUIDL: 14D76A5B-F97F11D4-B0A80050-0424CC10 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Greetings, I have a PDP-11/73 on which I have installed 2.11 BSD from the PUPS archives. I have a few hardware configurations questions that I hope someone might be able to help me with. The memory board that I have was made by Clearpoint Inc. The board has the markings Q-RAM 44B REV. B and GSB-2. Unfortunately, I have no documentation for the board. The board originally had 1 MB installed, and I added another 1 MB of chips. The extra chips were not recognized though. Does anyone have information on the jumper settings for this board? I have two MSCP controllers installed. One is a CMD CQD-220/M SCSI controller with one drive attached, CSR is the first MSCP controller, and unit is set to 0. The second is an RQDX3 with an RX50 attached. It is set with CSR at the second MSCP controller address. The jumpers are set for unit 1. The result is that I have a SCSI drive at DU0 and the RX50's at DU4 and DU5 during boot. DU0 is ra0 and DU4 is ra12 in 2.11 BSD. If I change the jumpers on RQDX3 to unit 2, I boot at DU8, the first RX50, but I can no longer access the floppies from 2.11 BSD. Looking at the sources, it seems that the drive number is limited to 0-7, but the controller seems to want unit number 8. What am I missing? This seems to occur both in the kernel and in the standalone installation system. Chuck Dickman chd(a)nktelco.net Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA62190 for pups-liszt; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:01:37 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Mon Feb 5 09:45:33 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA62186 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:01:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f14NjXN00172 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:45:33 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:45:33 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102042345.f14NjXN00172(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Hardware config for 2.11BSD Installation on PDP-11/73 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> > The memory board that I have was made by Clearpoint Inc. The board 'fraid I can't be of help with the memory board - that's not my area of expertise. > I have two MSCP controllers installed. One is a CMD CQD-220/M SCSI Ah, but I can help with getting the dual MSCP controller question. My 11/73 is similar - it has an Emulex UC08 and the original RQDX3 (with an RD54 and a RX03). > DU0 is ra0 and DU4 is ra12 in 2.11 BSD. If I change the jumpers on > RQDX3 to unit 2, I boot at DU8, the first RX50, but I can no longer > access the floppies from 2.11 BSD. Looking at the sources, it seems > that the drive number is limited to 0-7, but the controller seems to > want unit number 8. What am I missing? This seems to occur both in > the kernel and in the standalone installation system. Ignore anything you might know about DU numbers ;) 2.11 numbers the drives 0 thru 7 on _each_ controller. Thus 'ra0' thru 'ra7' are on the first controller, 'ra8' thru 'ra15' on the second controller and so on. There is a maximum of 4 controllers supported (two bits in the minor device number). The standalone I/O system uses device names of the form: dev(ctlr, unit, part) where 'ctlr' is the controller number (0 thru 3), the 'unit' number is 0 thru 7 and the 'part' is the partition number (0 thru 7). So, to access the first drive on the second controller from a standalone program the name would be: ra(1,0,0) you probably will be prompted for the CSR since 'boot' and friends only know about the first controller's address. Once the kernel is loaded you access drives on the 2nd controller with device names such as /dev/ra8a, /dev/ra9a, and so on. The "sparse" numbering was chosen (eons and eons ago) to make the MSCP disks look more like the traditional disc controllers which allowed for 8 drives per controller. In my /etc/dtab file I have: ra ? 172154 154 5 raintr # uda50, rqdx1/2/3 ra ? 172150 0 5 raintr # 2nd uda50/uc08 From the console ODT prompt (I've an older MXV11 boot set up) I use "172150 du 0" to boot from the SCSI disk attached to the UC08. When the system is up the RD54 (which is unit 0 on the other MSCP controller) is accessed as 'ra8' (and the RX03 which is unit 1 accessed as 'ra9'). It's pretty simple and regular once one knows what is going on ;) Steven Schultz sms(a)to.gd-es.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA62645 for pups-liszt; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:52:20 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> Mon Feb 5 11:49:50 2001 Received: from mailserver.nktelco.net (mailserver.nktelco.net [216.206.77.3]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA62637 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:52:16 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from chd(a)nktelco.net) Received: by mailserver.nktelco.net from localhost (router,SLMail V4.1); Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:39:27 -0500 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Received: from nktelco.net [63.238.116.228] by mailserver.nktelco.net [216.206.77.3] (SLmail 4.1.3395) with ESMTP id 8253E300FAEF11D4B0A800500424CC10 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:39:27 -0500 Message-ID: <3A7E06BE.F5687560(a)nktelco.net> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:49:50 -0500 From: "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Hardware config for 2.11BSD Installation on PDP-11/73] Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------F423B2C7167AA36041F4AE52" X-SLUIDL: 14D76C4B-F97F11D4-B0A80050-0424CC10 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------F423B2C7167AA36041F4AE52 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > > Hi - > <snip> What you described here makes sense and was my first impression of what should happen, but my experience is different. > > In my /etc/dtab file I have: > > ra ? 172154 154 5 raintr # uda50, rqdx1/2/3 > ra ? 172150 0 5 raintr # 2nd uda50/uc08 My /etc/dtab is: ra ? 172150 154 5 raintr # uda50, rqdx1/2/3 ra ? 160334 160 5 raintr # secondary mscp The CQD220 is at 172150 and the RXDX3 is at 160334. Is 172154 a valid MSCP address? It must be, cause it works for you. The docs I have show 160334. On booting the 11/73 and starting 2.11 BSD the following occurs: DU8 and DU9 at boot are the RX50 drives on the second controller. The floppy in DU8 contains the installation standalone utilities that were part of the installation tape, including icheck. ------------ Testing in progress - Please wait Memory Size is 1024 K Bytes 9 Step memory test Step 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Message 04 Entering Dialog mode Commands are Help, Boot, List, Setup, Map and Test. Type a command then press the RETURN key: B DU8 Trying DU8 Starting system from DU8 .83Boot from ra(1,0,0) at 0160334 .: ra(1,0,0)/icheck .ra(1,0,0) err op=89 sts=3 .ra(1,0,0) !online .: ra(0,0,0)/unix .Boot: bootdev=02400 bootcsr=0172150 . 2.11 BSD UNIX #10: Fri Nov 24 16:52:18 PST 2000 root@mars.chd-net:/usr/src/sys/MARS ra0: Ver 6 mod 13 ra0: RA82 size=1295849 attaching qe0 csr 174440 qe0: DEC DELQA addr 08:00:2b:0e:24:7c attaching lo0 phys mem = 1048576 avail mem = 725696 user mem = 307200 February 1 23:38:41 init: configure system hk ? csr 177440 vector 210 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ht ? csr 172440 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ra 0 csr 172150 vector 154 vectorset attached ra 1 csr 160334 vector 160 vectorset attached rl ? csr 174400 vector 160 skipped: No autoconfig routines. tm ? csr 172520 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ts 0 csr 172520 vector 224 attached xp ? csr 176700 vector 254 skipped: No autoconfig routines. erase, kill ^U, intr ^C # # mount /dev/ra8a /mnt/rx0 ra1: Ver 4 mod 3 ra8 st=3 sb=0 fl=0 en=9 /dev/ra8a on /mnt/rx0: Input/output error : not found : not found # mount /dev/ra9a /mnt/rx0 ra9 st=3 sb=0 fl=0 en=9 /dev/ra9a on /mnt/rx0: Input/output error # > > It's pretty simple and regular once one knows what is going on ;) > I agree that it is pretty simple as you describe it and it is what I expected, but it does not seem to be as I see it here. Could the problem be that I am booting from the second controller? Should all the controllers be jumpered for unit 0? Now that I think about it, it may be the boot firmware that is uncooperative. If I set the RQDX3 for unit 0, I cannot boot from the second controller's first disk, but I can from the second. So, I should set all the controller unit numbers to 0. The restriction is that the boot device must be visible to the firmware. Make sense? ... OK, I moved the RQDX3 to unit 0, and the boot floppy to the second drive. The boot is then: -------------- Testing in progress - Please wait Memory Size is 1024 K Bytes 9 Step memory test Step 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Message 04 Entering Dialog mode Commands are Help, Boot, List, Setup, Map and Test. Type a command then press the RETURN key: B DU1 Trying DU1 Starting system from DU1 .83Boot from ra(1,1,0) at 0160334 .: ra(0,0,0)/unix .Boot: bootdev=02400 bootcsr=0172150 . 2.11 BSD UNIX #10: Fri Nov 24 16:52:18 PST 2000 root@mars.chd-net:/usr/src/sys/MARS ra0: Ver 6 mod 13 ra0: RA82 size=1295849 attaching qe0 csr 174440 qe0: DEC DELQA addr 08:00:2b:0e:24:7c attaching lo0 phys mem = 1048576 avail mem = 725696 user mem = 307200 February 1 23:38:41 init: configure system hk ? csr 177440 vector 210 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ht ? csr 172440 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ra 0 csr 172150 vector 154 vectorset attached ra 1 csr 160334 vector 160 vectorset attached rl ? csr 174400 vector 160 skipped: No autoconfig routines. tm ? csr 172520 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ts 0 csr 172520 vector 224 attached xp ? csr 176700 vector 254 skipped: No autoconfig routines. erase, kill ^U, intr ^C # mount /dev/ra9a /mnt/rx0 ra1: Ver 4 mod 3 ra9: RX50 size=800 # ls /mnt/rx0 boot icheck restor unix disklabel mkfs rx50toroot # > Steven Schultz > sms(a)to.gd-es.com Thanks for helping me work through this. It looks like the boot device must be within the first 8 devices that the firmware can see, but 2.11 BSD wants all the unit number jumpers set to 0. Chuck Dickman chd(a)nktelco.net --------------F423B2C7167AA36041F4AE52 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Message-ID: <3A7E052A.D2F195E1(a)nktelco.net> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:43:06 -0500 From: Chuck Dickman <chd(a)nktelco.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Subject: Re: [pups] Hardware config for 2.11BSD Installation on PDP-11/73 References: <200102042345.f14NjXN00172(a)moe.2bsd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > > Hi - > <snip> What you described here makes sense and was my first impression of what should happen, but my experience is different. > > In my /etc/dtab file I have: > > ra ? 172154 154 5 raintr # uda50, rqdx1/2/3 > ra ? 172150 0 5 raintr # 2nd uda50/uc08 My /etc/dtab is: ra ? 172150 154 5 raintr # uda50, rqdx1/2/3 ra ? 160334 160 5 raintr # secondary mscp The CQD220 is at 172150 and the RXDX3 is at 160334. Is 172154 a valid MSCP address? It must be, cause it works for you. The docs I have show 160334. On booting the 11/73 and starting 2.11 BSD the following occurs: DU8 and DU9 at boot are the RX50 drives on the second controller. The floppy in DU8 contains the installation standalone utilities that were part of the installation tape, including icheck. ------------ Testing in progress - Please wait Memory Size is 1024 K Bytes 9 Step memory test Step 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Message 04 Entering Dialog mode Commands are Help, Boot, List, Setup, Map and Test. Type a command then press the RETURN key: B DU8 Trying DU8 Starting system from DU8 .83Boot from ra(1,0,0) at 0160334 .: ra(1,0,0)/icheck .ra(1,0,0) err op=89 sts=3 .ra(1,0,0) !online .: ra(0,0,0)/unix .Boot: bootdev=02400 bootcsr=0172150 . 2.11 BSD UNIX #10: Fri Nov 24 16:52:18 PST 2000 root@mars.chd-net:/usr/src/sys/MARS ra0: Ver 6 mod 13 ra0: RA82 size=1295849 attaching qe0 csr 174440 qe0: DEC DELQA addr 08:00:2b:0e:24:7c attaching lo0 phys mem = 1048576 avail mem = 725696 user mem = 307200 February 1 23:38:41 init: configure system hk ? csr 177440 vector 210 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ht ? csr 172440 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ra 0 csr 172150 vector 154 vectorset attached ra 1 csr 160334 vector 160 vectorset attached rl ? csr 174400 vector 160 skipped: No autoconfig routines. tm ? csr 172520 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ts 0 csr 172520 vector 224 attached xp ? csr 176700 vector 254 skipped: No autoconfig routines. erase, kill ^U, intr ^C # # mount /dev/ra8a /mnt/rx0 ra1: Ver 4 mod 3 ra8 st=3 sb=0 fl=0 en=9 /dev/ra8a on /mnt/rx0: Input/output error : not found : not found # mount /dev/ra9a /mnt/rx0 ra9 st=3 sb=0 fl=0 en=9 /dev/ra9a on /mnt/rx0: Input/output error # > > It's pretty simple and regular once one knows what is going on ;) > I agree that it is pretty simple as you describe it and it is what I expected, but it does not seem to be as I see it here. Could the problem be that I am booting from the second controller? Should all the controllers be jumpered for unit 0? Now that I think about it, it may be the boot firmware that is uncooperative. If I set the RQDX3 for unit 0, I cannot boot from the second controller's first disk, but I can from the second. So, I should set all the controller unit numbers to 0. The restriction is that the boot device must be visible to the firmware. Make sense? ... OK, I moved the RQDX3 to unit 0, and the boot floppy to the second drive. The boot is then: -------------- Testing in progress - Please wait Memory Size is 1024 K Bytes 9 Step memory test Step 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Message 04 Entering Dialog mode Commands are Help, Boot, List, Setup, Map and Test. Type a command then press the RETURN key: B DU1 Trying DU1 Starting system from DU1 .83Boot from ra(1,1,0) at 0160334 .: ra(0,0,0)/unix .Boot: bootdev=02400 bootcsr=0172150 . 2.11 BSD UNIX #10: Fri Nov 24 16:52:18 PST 2000 root@mars.chd-net:/usr/src/sys/MARS ra0: Ver 6 mod 13 ra0: RA82 size=1295849 attaching qe0 csr 174440 qe0: DEC DELQA addr 08:00:2b:0e:24:7c attaching lo0 phys mem = 1048576 avail mem = 725696 user mem = 307200 February 1 23:38:41 init: configure system hk ? csr 177440 vector 210 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ht ? csr 172440 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ra 0 csr 172150 vector 154 vectorset attached ra 1 csr 160334 vector 160 vectorset attached rl ? csr 174400 vector 160 skipped: No autoconfig routines. tm ? csr 172520 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. ts 0 csr 172520 vector 224 attached xp ? csr 176700 vector 254 skipped: No autoconfig routines. erase, kill ^U, intr ^C # mount /dev/ra9a /mnt/rx0 ra1: Ver 4 mod 3 ra9: RX50 size=800 # ls /mnt/rx0 boot icheck restor unix disklabel mkfs rx50toroot # > Steven Schultz > sms(a)to.gd-es.com Thanks for helping me work through this. It looks like the boot device must be within the first 8 devices that the firmware can see, but 2.11 BSD wants all the unit number jumpers set to 0. Chuck Dickman chd(a)nktelco.net --------------F423B2C7167AA36041F4AE52-- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA62886 for pups-liszt; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:46:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Chuck Dickman <chd(a)nktelco.net> Mon Feb 5 11:43:06 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA62882 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:46:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f152Zs901247; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 18:35:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 18:35:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102050235.f152Zs901247(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: chd(a)nktelco.net, sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Subject: Re: [pups] Hardware config for 2.11BSD Installation on PDP-11/73 Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> > What you described here makes sense and was my first impression of > what should happen, but my experience is different. I'm wondering if the console/boot firmware might not be the cause of some of the confusion. > My /etc/dtab is: > > ra ? 172150 154 5 raintr # uda50, rqdx1/2/3 > ra ? 160334 160 5 raintr # secondary mscp Looks good. With 2.11 you can, if you want, leave the interrupt vector as 0, the kernel will allocate an available vector and tell the MSCP controller what vector to use. > The CQD220 is at 172150 and the RXDX3 is at 160334. Is 172154 a valid > MSCP address? It must be, cause it works for you. The docs I have > show 160334. As long as it doesn't conflict with anything else on the system it's valid ;-) The system came with the RQDX3 and I worked with the RD54 for a while before adding the UC08 - when I added the UC08 I just picked the next free CSR which happened to be 172154. > DU8 and DU9 at boot are the RX50 drives on the second controller. The > floppy in DU8 contains the installation standalone utilities that were > part of the installation tape, including icheck. > > ------------ > .83Boot from ra(1,0,0) at 0160334 > .: ra(1,0,0)/icheck It probably doesn't hurt anything but I would leave off the '/' > .ra(1,0,0) err op=89 sts=3 > .ra(1,0,0) !online op=89 is the "ONLINE" command and a status of 3 means the unit didn't go 'online'. That is very strange since 'boot' was obviously loaded from the drive/controller. What I am wondering now is: does the boot monitor pass 0 or 8 thru as the unit number? If it's expecting 8 or 9 then that might be the problem because boot and the 2.11 kernel only deal with 0 thru 7 > .: ra(0,0,0)/unix > .Boot: bootdev=02400 bootcsr=0172150 > . > hk ? csr 177440 vector 210 skipped: No autoconfig routines. > ht ? csr 172440 vector 224 skipped: No autoconfig routines. > ra 0 csr 172150 vector 154 vectorset attached > ra 1 csr 160334 vector 160 vectorset attached Ok, that looks encouraging. > # mount /dev/ra8a /mnt/rx0 > ra1: Ver 4 mod 3 > ra8 st=3 sb=0 fl=0 en=9 > /dev/ra8a on /mnt/rx0: Input/output error > : not found > : not found > # mount /dev/ra9a /mnt/rx0 > ra9 st=3 sb=0 fl=0 en=9 > /dev/ra9a on /mnt/rx0: Input/output error Same as before - the "online" command is failing for reason(s) unknown as yet. > I agree that it is pretty simple as you describe it and it is what I expected, > but it does not seem to be as I see it here. Could the problem be that I am > booting from the second controller? Should all the controllers be jumpered I boot from the second controller all the time. If I weren't so lazy (and the BA23 so narrow and hard to work in ;)) I'd have swapped the UC08 and RQDX3 around a long time ago. As it is now I have to hit ^C during the POST and at the BOOT> prompt I enter "172154 DU 0" to boot from the second controller. > for unit 0? Now that I think about it, it may be the boot firmware that is Yes, if given a choice (and I don't know how this is done) all the controllers need to start from 0. If the "base unit" of a controller is 8 then I think the problem is that the controller is expecting values such as 8, 9, etc in the 'mscp_unit' part of the MSCP packet. That would explain the failure to "online unit 0" - the controller is expecting to be told "online unit 8". > controller's first disk, but I can from the second. So, I should set all the > controller unit numbers to 0. The restriction is that the boot device > must be visible to the firmware. Make sense? Yes. I think the 'restriction' in this case is 2.11 - it doesn't know how to deal with units other than 0 thru 7. > Thanks for helping me work through this. It looks like the boot device > must be within the first 8 devices that the firmware can see, but 2.11 BSD > wants all the unit number jumpers set to 0. Quite welcome! The boot monitor can load anything, but once 'boot' (or the kernel) is loaded they do not know how to deal with unit=8. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA63034 for pups-liszt; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:23:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> Mon Feb 5 13:20:27 2001 Received: from mailserver.nktelco.net (mailserver.nktelco.net [216.206.77.3]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA63030 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:23:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from chd(a)nktelco.net) Received: by mailserver.nktelco.net from localhost (router,SLMail V4.1); Sun, 04 Feb 2001 22:10:04 -0500 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Received: from nktelco.net [63.238.116.228] by mailserver.nktelco.net [216.206.77.3] (SLmail 4.1.3395) with ESMTP id 8253E3E2FAEF11D4B0A800500424CC10 for <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> plus 1 more; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 22:10:04 -0500 Message-ID: <3A7E1BFB.98767635(a)nktelco.net> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 22:20:27 -0500 From: "Chuck Dickman" <chd(a)nktelco.net> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Hardware config for 2.11BSD Installation on PDP-11/73 References: <200102050235.f152Zs901247(a)moe.2bsd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SLUIDL: 14D76D51-F97F11D4-B0A80050-0424CC10 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > > > "Chuck Dickman" wrote: > > > > Thanks for helping me work through this. It looks like the boot device > > must be within the first 8 devices that the firmware can see, but 2.11 BSD > > wants all the unit number jumpers set to 0. > > Quite welcome! The boot monitor can load anything, but once 'boot' > (or the kernel) is loaded they do not know how to deal with unit=8. I think that was what I was trying to say, but you said it better. Thanks. > > Steven Schultz > sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Now if someone could help be double my memory. :-) Chuck Dickman chd(a)nktelco.net Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA65456 for pups-liszt; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 23:39:58 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> Mon Feb 5 22:37:53 2001 Received: from mud.stack.nl (mud.stack.nl [131.155.141.98]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA65452 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 23:39:53 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from martijnb(a)stack.nl) Received: by mud.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 587) id 3AC547F18; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:37:53 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:37:53 +0100 From: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: [pups] Y2K problem in ftpd? Message-ID: <20010205133753.A23455(a)mud.stack.nl> Reply-To: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.3i Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi. A friendly user pointed me to this obvious error: (part of a typescript, an FTP session to my PDP, running 2.11BSD) ncftp /usr/home/martijnb> ls -la foobar.c -rw-r--r-- 1 martijnb users 106 Jan 15 15:25 foobar.c ncftp /usr/home/martijnb> quote mdtm foobar.c 191010115144152 (mdtm should return the datestamp, in the form yyyymmddhhmm. ftpd thinks that it is 19101, and chops off the last digit of the filedate..) Things go wrong when you try to get an allready existing file: ncftp /usr/home/martijnb > get foobar.c The local file "foobar.c" already exists. Local: 133 bytes, dated Mon Feb 5 13:25:59 2001. Remote: 133 bytes, dated Thu Oct 13 04:44:15 1910. [O]verwrite? [A]ppend to? [S]kip? [N]ew Name? > Hmm. I'll see if I can figure out a quick patch :) -- Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA65628 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:14:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> Mon Feb 5 23:09:49 2001 Received: from fgh.geac.com.au ([203.32.189.100]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA65624 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:14:21 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave(a)horsfall.org) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by fgh.geac.com.au (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f15D9on12003 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:09:50 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: fgh.au.geac.com: dave owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:09:49 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> X-X-Sender: <dave(a)fgh.au.geac.com> To: PDP Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Y2K problem in ftpd? In-Reply-To: <20010205133753.A23455(a)mud.stack.nl> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102052354420.5033-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> X-No-Archive: Yes X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?" X-Witty-Saying: "Mobius Strip - See other side for instructions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Martijn van Buul wrote: > ncftp /usr/home/martijnb> quote mdtm foobar.c > 191010115144152 > > (mdtm should return the datestamp, in the form yyyymmddhhmm. ftpd > thinks that it is 19101, and chops off the last digit of the filedate..) Yep, that's a sure sign, which (cough, cough) I have personally seen on some (cough, cough) Y2K-compliant software supported by (cough, cough) A Large Software Company. No, I wasn't personally responsible for that code :-) > I'll see if I can figure out a quick patch :) Beware of the Y2K.1 bug :-( Synopsis: In order to overcome the Y2K bug, we implement a quick fix, because we are too lazy to do it properly: IF last two digits == '00' THEN make first two digits == '20'. // Because we're gonna retire this stuff after 2000. So what happens in 2001? Well, you get 1901, 19101, etc. Sigh... Isn't that fix what got us into trouble in the first place? Disclaimer: None of Geac software exhibited the Y2K.1 bug, since we tested it thoroughly, for years 2000, 2001, etc: I make no comment on Y2K. -- Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490 Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA65695 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:29:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> Mon Feb 5 23:27:46 2001 Received: from mud.stack.nl (mud.stack.nl [131.155.141.98]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA65691 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:29:45 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from martijnb(a)stack.nl) Received: by mud.stack.nl (Postfix, from userid 587) id 8FD117F18; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:27:46 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:27:46 +0100 From: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Y2K problem in ftpd? Message-ID: <20010205142746.A24731(a)mud.stack.nl> Reply-To: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> References: <20010205133753.A23455(a)mud.stack.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.3.3i In-Reply-To: <20010205133753.A23455(a)mud.stack.nl>; from pino(a)dohd.org on Mon, Feb 05, 2001 at 01:37:53PM +0100 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Martijn van Buul wrote: > I'll see if I can figure out a quick patch :) Done. A diff for /usr/src/libexec/ftpd/ftpcmd.y: 461,463c461,464 < "19%02d%02d%02d%02d%02d%02d", < t->tm_year, t->tm_mon+1, t->tm_mday, < t->tm_hour, t->tm_min, t->tm_sec); --- > "%04d%02d%02d%02d%02d%02d", > t->tm_year+1900, t->tm_mon+1, > t->tm_mday, t->tm_hour, t->tm_min, > t->tm_sec); Miraculously, this *reduces* the size of the binary by a whopping two bytes ;) -- Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA65865 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 01:04:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Mon Feb 5 23:50:37 2001 Received: from fgh.geac.com.au ([203.32.189.100]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA65861 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 01:04:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from dave(a)horsfall.org) Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by fgh.geac.com.au (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f15DocZ18079 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:50:38 +1100 (EST) X-Authentication-Warning: fgh.au.geac.com: dave owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 00:50:37 +1100 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> X-X-Sender: <dave(a)fgh.au.geac.com> To: PDP Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Y2K problem in ftpd? In-Reply-To: <20010205142746.A24731(a)mud.stack.nl> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102060048000.5033-100000(a)fgh.au.geac.com> X-No-Archive: Yes X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?" X-Witty-Saying: "Mobius Strip - See other side for instructions" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Mon, 5 Feb 2001, Martijn van Buul wrote: > < "19%02d%02d%02d%02d%02d%02d", > < t->tm_year, t->tm_mon+1, t->tm_mday, Dead giveaway... > Miraculously, this *reduces* the size of the binary by a whopping two > bytes ;) Well, we can find a job for you in writing PDP-11 bootstraps :-) -- Dave Horsfall CL VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: * 9978-7490 Geac Computers P/L (ERP Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA66602 for pups-liszt; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 03:01:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

1
0
0 0

Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator

by Per Andersson

On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Richard Donkin wrote: > "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: > ... > > I use BSD/OS myself, but FreeBSD works very nicely also. I've not > > tried it with linux. > > Could you let me know the FreeBSD and Begemot P11 versions you were > using? (Anyone > else who has a working combination, feel free to jump in!) This might not be state-of-the-art (but thats not the point anyway), I'm running p11 version 2.5 on an FreeBSD 3.4 machine and it works ok, the main problem I have found is that after a while the clock starts to run slow, at the momement it thinks it's christmas eve (after beeing up about 130 days). /Per Andersson Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA54943 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 09:25:12 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Sun Feb 4 08:23:08 2001 Received: from mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (mailhost.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.1]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA54939 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 09:25:05 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from bill(a)cs.uofs.edu) Received: from triangle.cs.uofs.edu (IDENT:root@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.172.101]) by mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA54493 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 17:24:01 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (bill@localhost) by triangle.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id RAA06862 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 17:23:10 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: triangle.cs.uofs.edu: bill owned process doing -bs Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 17:23:08 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102032157010.4898-100000(a)wilfer4.cdg.chalmers.se> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102031721020.6311-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Per Andersson wrote: > > This might not be state-of-the-art (but thats not the point anyway), I'm > running p11 version 2.5 on an FreeBSD 3.4 machine and it works ok, the main Where can I find this Begemot P11 Emulator?? I visited the Begemot site but the link to products doesn't appear to work. I have tried E11 (demo version) and the Supnil Emulator, but have never heard of this one til now. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA55257 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 10:48:52 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Sun Feb 4 09:45:42 2001 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA55253 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 10:48:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk) Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14PCOP-000PL9-0V; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 23:46:58 +0000 Message-ID: <e+SmvUAmgJf6Ew48(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 23:45:42 +0000 To: Per Andersson <pa(a)cdg.chalmers.se> Cc: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator References: <3A7BD55D.B64B221B(a)bigfoot.com> <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102032157010.4898-100000(a)wilfer4.cdg.chalmers.se> In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102032157010.4898-100000(a)wilfer4.cdg.chalmers.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U <YSkKJATYm0AxAbv6xwlBrCeVCW> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In message <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102032157010.4898-100000(a)wilfer4.cdg.chalmers .se>, Per Andersson <pa(a)cdg.chalmers.se> writes > > >On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Richard Donkin wrote: > >> "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: >> ... >> > I use BSD/OS myself, but FreeBSD works very nicely also. I've not >> > tried it with linux. >> >> Could you let me know the FreeBSD and Begemot P11 versions you were >> using? (Anyone >> else who has a working combination, feel free to jump in!) > >This might not be state-of-the-art (but thats not the point anyway), I'm >running p11 version 2.5 on an FreeBSD 3.4 machine and it works ok, the main >problem I have found is that after a while the clock starts to run slow, >at the momement it thinks it's christmas eve (after beeing up about 130 days). > > > /Per Andersson > > Hi, Harti Brandt, the guy who wrote this package is shortly (I hope :-)) going to release a new version that includes a clock patch that Steve Schultz dreamt up. Regards Robin Currently running P11 on linux ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA55275 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 10:50:10 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Sun Feb 4 09:47:06 2001 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.89]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA55271 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 10:50:07 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk) Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14PCPh-000PMw-0V; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 23:48:18 +0000 Message-ID: <S+VlfhA6hJf6EwZk(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 23:47:06 +0000 To: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator References: <Pine.GSO.4.32.0102032157010.4898-100000(a)wilfer4.cdg.chalmers.se> <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102031721020.6311-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102031721020.6311-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U <YSkKJATYm0AxAbv6xwlBrCeVCW> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In message <Pine.LNX.4.10.10102031721020.6311-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.ed u>, Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> writes >On Sat, 3 Feb 2001, Per Andersson wrote: > >> >> This might not be state-of-the-art (but thats not the point anyway), I'm >> running p11 version 2.5 on an FreeBSD 3.4 machine and it works ok, the main > >Where can I find this Begemot P11 Emulator?? I visited the Begemot site >but the link to products doesn't appear to work. I have tried E11 (demo >version) and the Supnil Emulator, but have never heard of this one til now. > >bill > There is an oldish version on the pups archive. I believe that harti is going to release a newer version soon. regards Robin ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA55355 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:05:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Sun Feb 4 10:03:00 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA55351 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:05:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f14030W16555 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:03:00 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:03:00 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102040003.f14030W16555(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Per Andersson <pa(a)cdg.chalmers.se> > > This might not be state-of-the-art (but thats not the point anyway), I'm > running p11 version 2.5 on an FreeBSD 3.4 machine and it works ok, the main > problem I have found is that after a while the clock starts to run slow, > at the momement it thinks it's christmas eve (after beeing up about 130 days). The bug is an arithmetic overflow in the clock computations. After about 24 days (with 60Hz power in the US) the number of ticks the virtual machine has been up overflows 32 bits and time behaves very strange. Apply the patch below to 'device.c' and the problem goes away - it did for me. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com --- device.c.dist Sat Mar 4 00:03:28 2000 +++ device.c Fri Sep 29 23:59:10 2000 @@ -203,6 +203,7 @@ int secs; int newrate, diff; int newdir; + double dnow, dstart; for(t = timeouts; t < &timeouts[ntimeouts]; t++) if(t->time && --t->curr == 0) { @@ -223,9 +224,9 @@ * to the number we have elapsed */ gettimeofday(&tv, NULL); - secs = ((1000 * tv.tv_sec + tv.tv_usec/1000) - - (1000 * timer.start.tv_sec + timer.start.tv_usec/1000)) - / 1000; + dstart = 1000.0 * timer.start.tv_sec + timer.start.tv_usec/1000.0; + dnow = 1000.0 * tv.tv_sec + tv.tv_usec/1000.0; + secs = (dnow - dstart) / 1000.0; newrate = 1000000 / clock_rate; Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA55652 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:55:21 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Jay Jaeger <cube1(a)home.com> Sun Feb 4 10:50:25 2001 Received: from mail2.rdc1.il.home.com (mail2.rdc1.il.home.com [24.2.1.77]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA55648 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 11:55:16 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cube1(a)home.com) Received: from ddjay.home.com ([65.3.254.22]) by mail2.rdc1.il.home.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with ESMTP id <20010204005319.ULPW13648.mail2.rdc1.il.home.com(a)ddjay.home.com>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:53:19 -0800 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20010203184258.00bda9f0@cirithi> X-Sender: cube1@cirithi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 18:50:25 -0600 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au From: Jay Jaeger <cube1(a)home.com> Subject: [pups] V6 and PDP-11/34 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I *have* *run* the standard Unix V6 distribution on my PDP 11/34. Works just fine. I also compared my V6 distribution image with the one on PUPS (years ago) and they matched just fine. Load the pack from the RK05 image after the 100 (IIRC) block tape to disk loader program [how you get it there is another issue, of course... 8-)], boot up, type rkunix at the "@" and away you go. I did not use the tape to disk program on the tape image, however -- I didn't have a tape drive at the time IIRC. I have a standalone program that used a parallel port on my PC and a DR11 on my PDP-11 to write it, IIRC, but I might have used XMODEM and a serial port -- its been a lonnnng time since I did it. Jay Jaeger Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) From: Warren Toomey <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? In article by Carl Lowenstein: > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( That's the problem. Cheers, Warren --- Jay R. Jaeger The Computer Collection cube1(a)home.com visit http://members.home.net/thecomputercollection Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA56873 for pups-liszt; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 17:46:26 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Jan 31 08:13:30 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA56869 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 17:46:21 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f146dSx18575 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 22:39:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 22:39:28 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200102040639.f146dSx18575(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> > Could you let me know the FreeBSD and Begemot P11 versions you were > using? (Anyone else who has a working combination, feel free to jump in!) Gosh, it was quite a while ago that I tried P11 on a FreeBSD system. It was pre-4.0 as I remember - perhaps 3.5 or 3.6 > Thanks very much for the config file, that should make life a lot > easier... And Quite welcome! Getting rid of the M4 macros and distilling the config file down to the basics makes it much easier to see what is going on. Coming up with that first config file was a day or so of fun ;) > thanks for all your efforts in updating 2.11BSD - very impressive to get > a full fledged BSD system on a PDP-11! You're welcome - it's been a lot of fun over the years. The past couple years development has slowed down, combination of too many other projects and not a lot of room left to stuff new features in ;) Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com

24 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] makedepend

by Steven M. Schultz

Hi Robin - > From: robin.birch(a)postoffice.co.uk > > I know that this isn't to do with a pdp or ancient unix but does anyone know > where I can find the sources for makedepend ? It's installed in /usr/src/X11/xc/config/makedepend on the systems I have looked on. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA51838 for pups-liszt; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 20:53:31 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Sat Feb 3 19:51:28 2001 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.45]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA51834 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 20:53:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com) Received: from bigfoot.com (dsl-212-135-223-35.dsl.easynet.co.uk [212.135.223.35]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D68A17576; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 09:51:37 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <3A7BD4A0.D58E2F80(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 09:51:28 +0000 From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Cc: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: 2.11BSD networking on simulator References: <3A78919C.3D604E23(a)bigfoot.com> <20010201094448.D70596(a)wantadilla.lemis.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Greg Lehey wrote: > > The Begemot emulator was written on BSD, so you'll probably find it > easier to use under FreeBSD. > > > Does anyone have a working Begemot sim setup with networking, used > > with 2.11BSD? If so, could you post your config files? The Begemot > > sim seems a lot more complex to set up than Supnik. > > *sigh* I used to, and it worked well. A number of changes in FreeBSD > have rendered the emulator non-functional, and I haven't had time to > find out what's wrong. I'll take a look and see if I can see anything > obvious, but it might take me a while. Thanks - do you know what FreeBSD version it last worked on? Also, which version of P11 you are using? I'm not doing anything significant with the FreeBSD box (it's a virtual machine under VMware) so re-installing is not a problem. Richard Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA51862 for pups-liszt; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 20:56:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Sat Feb 3 19:54:37 2001 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.45]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA51858 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 20:56:32 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com) Received: from bigfoot.com (dsl-212-135-223-35.dsl.easynet.co.uk [212.135.223.35]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7720F1755A for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 09:54:45 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <3A7BD55D.B64B221B(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 09:54:37 +0000 From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator References: <200101312317.f0VNHsd17441(a)moe.2bsd.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk "Steven M. Schultz" wrote: ... > I use BSD/OS myself, but FreeBSD works very nicely also. I've not > tried it with linux. Could you let me know the FreeBSD and Begemot P11 versions you were using? (Anyone else who has a working combination, feel free to jump in!) Thanks very much for the config file, that should make life a lot easier... And thanks for all your efforts in updating 2.11BSD - very impressive to get a full fledged BSD system on a PDP-11! Cheers Richard

24 years, 3 months

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[pups] makedepend

by robin.birch＠postoffice.co.uk

Ok, I know that this isn't to do with a pdp or ancient unix but does anyone know where I can find the sources for makedepend ? REgards Robin Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA47580 for pups-liszt; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 05:00:31 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Sat Feb 3 03:03:59 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA47576 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 05:00:26 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:02:45 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <111FYTTA>; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:04:09 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C138A34(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:03:59 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk After seeing all the mail of success with the Supnik emulator, I found a compiled copy and tried that -- and got to a login: prompt! That's with the image you sent me -- many thanks. I'm going to have to learn more about the Supnik emulator now; in particular, I need to understand how to set it for a given processor emulation, so that once I rebuild the system to run on a '34 (which is supposed to be feasible), I can be reasonably sure it will work once it's ported over to the real machine. NOTE: neither simulator will run in a DOS box on Windows 2000. E11 starts up, but has problem accessing files (you can't MOUNT a file as a device). Supnik just won't go at all. I've been running my emulator on a DOS machine (actually, an old 486 laptop; hey guys, I have a laptop PDP-11!). Cheers -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 5:20 AM To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Ian King wrote: > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) So going over all the things I can easily do data integrity checks on, I've run 'gzip -tv' on all the GZip'ed things and found three that are apparently damaged: gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/dec/Ultrix-3.1/ultrix-3.1-bootape.tar.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/research/Ken_Wellsch_v6/v6.tape.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/unsw/90/record0.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error I can't comment on the *.Z compressed archives as they do not do any crc. I will have to peruse my stack of archive CD's made at various stages of the archive to see if I have the other two (I have a good 'v6.tape.gz' file). I did not try and run the MD5 list yet. But this is an example of why I had been pushing for the use of MD5 for all items in the archive... B^) -- Ken

24 years, 3 months

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Re: FW: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34?

by Bill Mayhew

This is a real stretch for my brain, but I seem to recall that the ";" that appeared in ";login:" in the 1970s was sort-of "bleed-through" from an escape sequence that was intended to do cursor positioning and/or screen-clearing on some terminals... or something like that... therefore its absence would not necessarily be significant on different hardware. -Bill Mayhew, UNIX mangler emeritus > From: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > [mailto:owner-pups@minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au]On Behalf Of Carl Lowenstein > Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 12:35 PM > To: iking(a)microsoft.com > Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > > > From iking(a)microsoft.com Tue Jan 30 15:27 PST 2001 > > From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> > > To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, > > Carl Lowenstein > > <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> > > Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:38:15 -0800 > > > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the > > "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot > > 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff > at > > loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. > > > > If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running > > E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the > > serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get > > one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 > baud) > > to spray it onto a disk. <sigh> > > Well, as some response to this challenge "get an image to run in an > emulator", > I visited Bob Supnik's Computer History Simulation Project web page > > <www.tiac.net/users/mps/retro/> > > and followed the links to the sources for SIMH v2.5a and to the Unix V6 > disk images. > > I read the documentation file "simh_doc.txt", and compiled the > simulator. Then I read "simh_swre.txt", unpacked the V6 images, ran > the simulator and attached the three RK05 images to it, and booted > RK0. All according to the instructions. > > I got the bootstrap prompt "@" to which I typed "unix" and it came up > with a "login:" prompt, to which I could log in as root, and do things. > > It's not quite the same V6 image that I remember from the olden days of > loading onto an 11/40 from magtape. The login prompt seems not to be > ";login:" as we still see on the Usenix magazine. dmr's account seems > to have vanished but ken's is still there. And that's how I spent a > few hours last night. > > In case it matters, the underlying hardware/software platform is an AMD > K6-3 running Mandrake 7.1 Linux. > > carl > > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu > clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping! http://www.shopping.altavista.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA40296 for pups-liszt; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:24:16 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Fri Feb 2 10:22:10 2001 Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA40289 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:24:12 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl@localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA11849; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:22:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:22:10 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Message-Id: <200102020022.QAA11849(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> To: mayhew(a)altavista.com Subject: Re: FW: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > From mayhew(a)altavista.com Thu Feb 1 14:31 PST 2001 > Date: 1 Feb 2001 14:30:43 -0800 > X-Sent: 1 Feb 2001 22:30:43 GMT > To: cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu > From: Bill Mayhew <mayhew(a)altavista.com> > Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > Subject: Re: FW: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > This is a real stretch for my brain, but I seem to recall that the > ";" that appeared in ";login:" in the 1970s was sort-of "bleed-through" > from an escape sequence that was intended to do cursor positioning > and/or screen-clearing on some terminals... or something like that... > therefore its absence would not necessarily be significant on different > hardware. Oh, yes. I was just hiding my previous knowledge. The ";" and ":" in the login prompt were the visible part of escape sequences to control a Teletype KSR37. They didn't do anything useful on a VT05 but did show up on the screen. Unix Sixth Edition predates the common availability of even the dumbest CRT terminals. There are still a lot of TTY37 control codes hanging around in nroff output. carl Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA43985 for pups-liszt; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 01:17:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator

by robin.birch＠postoffice.co.uk

I have the begemot simulator running very effectively on Linux, although I have not used the emulated ethernet connection. If anyone knows how to set this up on linux then I would welcome some help. I must say that although p11 takes quite a bit of setting up it is well worth the trouble. Regards Robin Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA38448 for pups-liszt; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 04:37:00 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Fri Feb 2 03:35:13 2001 Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA38444 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 04:36:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl@localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA05794; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:35:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:35:13 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Message-Id: <200102011735.JAA05794(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> To: iking(a)microsoft.com Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > From iking(a)microsoft.com Tue Jan 30 15:27 PST 2001 > From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> > To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, > Carl Lowenstein > <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> > Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:38:15 -0800 > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the > "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot > 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at > loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. > > If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running > E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the > serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get > one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud) > to spray it onto a disk. <sigh> Well, as some response to this challenge "get an image to run in an emulator", I visited Bob Supnik's Computer History Simulation Project web page <www.tiac.net/users/mps/retro/> and followed the links to the sources for SIMH v2.5a and to the Unix V6 disk images. I read the documentation file "simh_doc.txt", and compiled the simulator. Then I read "simh_swre.txt", unpacked the V6 images, ran the simulator and attached the three RK05 images to it, and booted RK0. All according to the instructions. I got the bootstrap prompt "@" to which I typed "unix" and it came up with a "login:" prompt, to which I could log in as root, and do things. It's not quite the same V6 image that I remember from the olden days of loading onto an 11/40 from magtape. The login prompt seems not to be ";login:" as we still see on the Usenix magazine. dmr's account seems to have vanished but ken's is still there. And that's how I spent a few hours last night. In case it matters, the underlying hardware/software platform is an AMD K6-3 running Mandrake 7.1 Linux. carl carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu

24 years, 3 months

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[pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator

by Richard Donkin

I'm running 2.11BSD on the Supnik simulator, and wondering how to get it networked. This sim seems to only support serial lines, so maybe I have to move over to the Begemot simulator - in which case, is it best to use FreeBSD or Linux as the host for the sim? I'm more familiar with Linux but I have FreeBSD running now - the question is what's easier to set up for networking. Does anyone have a working Begemot sim setup with networking, used with 2.11BSD? If so, could you post your config files? The Begemot sim seems a lot more complex to set up than Supnik. Cheers, Richard Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA32905 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:44:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Thu Feb 1 08:42:02 2001 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.45]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA32901 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:43:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com) Received: from bigfoot.com (dsl-212-135-223-35.dsl.easynet.co.uk [212.135.223.35]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 372D317941 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:42:24 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <3A7894BA.370723F0(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 22:42:02 +0000 From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] File exchange with Supnik sim Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I've tried the suggestions for getting files in and out of the Supnik sim, in particular using rl0 mapped to x.tar, and 'tar cvf /dev/rrl0a /etc/hosts'. However, tar complains: 'tar: tape write error: Read-only file system'. The disklabel for rl0 looks like: # /dev/rrl0a: type: old DEC disk: label: flags: bytes/sector: 512 sectors/track: 20 tracks/cylinder: 2 sectors/cylinder: 40 cylinders: 0 rpm: 0 interleave: 0 trackskew: 0 cylinderskew: 0 headswitch: 0 # milliseconds track-to-track seek: 0 # milliseconds drivedata: 0 1 partitions: # size offset fstype [fsize bsize] a: 10240 0 2.11BSD 1024 1024 # (Cyl. 0 - 255) cylinders/unit 0 Warning, revolutions/minute 0 boot block size 0 super block size 0 partition a: extends past end of unit 0 10240 0 Presumably I need to create a valid disklabel, but it would be good to have some advice on what a valid one would look like. I've also tried the same sort of thing with 'tar cvbBf 20 /dev/rmt0 /etc/hosts', and something like a tar file is produced - however, GNU tar on Linux and FreeBSD 4.2 tar can't read this, saying 'this doesn't look like a tar file'. Is there some trick to getting this to work, and am I better off using rl0 or rmt0? Richard Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA33243 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:16:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Thu Feb 1 09:14:49 2001 Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (postfix(a)wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA33239 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:16:24 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog(a)lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 172826AC9E; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:44:49 +1030 (CST) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 09:44:49 +1030 From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> To: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Cc: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] Re: 2.11BSD networking on simulator Message-ID: <20010201094448.D70596(a)wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <3A78919C.3D604E23(a)bigfoot.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <3A78919C.3D604E23(a)bigfoot.com>; from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com on Wed, Jan 31, 2001 at 10:28:44PM +0000 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk [Format recovered--see http://www.lemis.com/email/email-format.html] Your message contained alternate long and short lines On Wednesday, 31 January 2001 at 22:28:44 +0000, Richard Donkin wrote: > I'm running 2.11BSD on the Supnik simulator, and wondering how to > get it networked. This sim seems to only support serial lines, so > maybe I have to move over to the Begemot simulator - in which case, > is it best to use FreeBSD or Linux as the host for the sim? I'm > more familiar with Linux but I have FreeBSD running now - the > question is what's easier to set up for networking. The Begemot emulator was written on BSD, so you'll probably find it easier to use under FreeBSD. > Does anyone have a working Begemot sim setup with networking, used > with 2.11BSD? If so, could you post your config files? The Begemot > sim seems a lot more complex to set up than Supnik. *sigh* I used to, and it worked well. A number of changes in FreeBSD have rendered the emulator non-functional, and I haven't had time to find out what's wrong. I'll take a look and see if I can see anything obvious, but it might take me a while. Greg -- When replying to this message, please take care not to mutilate the original text. For more information, see http://www.lemis.com/email.html Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA33329 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:31:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Thu Feb 1 09:17:54 2001 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA33322 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:31:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f0VNHsd17441 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:17:54 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 15:17:54 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200101312317.f0VNHsd17441(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11BSD networking on simulator Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> > I'm running 2.11BSD on the Supnik simulator, and wondering how to get it > networked. It can not be done except perhaps with a SL/IP link. The Supnik simulator does not have an emulated ethernet device. > Begemot simulator - in which case, is it best to use FreeBSD or Linux as > the host I use BSD/OS myself, but FreeBSD works very nicely also. I've not tried it with linux. > Does anyone have a working Begemot sim setup with networking, used with > 2.11BSD? If so, Quite a few folks have it running. > could you post your config files? The Begemot sim seems a lot more > complex to set up than Supnik. Yes, it is quite a bit more complex (cryptic) to set up. Here's what I use to run P11 with. If you strip out all of the macro preprocessing stuff the config file is much more readable and not nearly as cryptic as before. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com ------------------ set clock_rate 60 ctrl rk 017777400 0220 5 4000 end ctrl rl 017774400 0160 4 4000 end ctrl rp 017776700 0254 5 4000 dev 0 ./2.11BSD 1999 dev 1 ./junk 1999 end ctrl kl dev 017777560 060 064 4 tty_net -7 -t 10000 dev 017776500 0300 0304 4 tty_net -7 -t 10001 end ctrl mr 017777520 ./rp.boot end ctrl lp 017777514 0200 4 end ctrl tm 017772520 0224 5 # dev 0 /tmp/foo end ctrl qna 017774440 5 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x6c 0xf8:0x7a qna.rom dev epp_tun tun0 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x6c 0x08:0x00:0x2b:0x07:0x82:0x00 end # The toy clock. # ctrl toy 017777526 end Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA33890 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:39:12 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Thu Feb 1 11:37:29 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA33886 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:39:07 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f111bTR01279; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:37:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A78BDD9.995B3F42(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 20:37:29 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; NetBSD 1.5.1_ALPHA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <200101302330.PAA29420(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > > From wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001 > > > > Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( > > That's the problem. > > Why, said he wonderingly. Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does > not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with > MPTS and MFPS instructions? Thats all I can think of immediately. > > ... When I looked last night at the machine assist (mch.s) for Ultrix-11/3.1 source, all I could easily find was consistent with this, contained in the V6 start document: The main difference between an 11/40 and an 11/45 (or 11/70) system is that in the former instruction restart after a segmentation violation caused by overflowing a user stack must be handled by software, while in the latter machines there is hardware help. which in more detail means, if I understand right, there is no SSR2 register in the MMU so the kernel code needs to disassemble the instruction to backup over it for restarting as per above. The Ultrix mch.s file has code that does this (quite a lot) and I noticed a few cases that checked it the cputype is 34. Cheers, -- Ken Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA35763 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 20:11:50 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] Re: regarding bsd 4.3 for vax machines documentation

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> wrote: > Check the UNIX Heritage Society at > http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS for details of 4.3BSD and how you > can get it for the Vax. For VAX 4.3BSD UNIX specifically, check out: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Quasijarus/ -- Michael Sokolov Public Service Agent International Engineering and Science Task Force 1351 VINE AVE APT 27 Phone: +1-714-738-5409 FULLERTON CA 92833-4291 USA (home office) E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19895 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:26:38 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Jan 30 14:25:17 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19891 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:26:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f0U4PIO32651 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:25:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200101300425.f0U4PIO32651(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] Re: new VTserver (was DZ-11 driver) In-Reply-To: <200101290215.NAA06982(a)psychwarp.psych.usyd.edu.au> from John Holden at "Jan 29, 2001 01:15:11 pm" Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:25:17 +1100 (EST) CC: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Robin Birch: > Warren, > Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a > tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You > could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more > complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be > universal across all PDP11s. > > Robin Done! See http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver and http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver/vtserver/vtreadme.html for details. At the present I have Ersatz-2.0 running as a PDP-11/34A, one RK05 and just the console. I have my tape server connected to the serial console line, and I'm bringing in an RK05 disk image: Virtual tape server, $Revision: 2.0 $ Running command stty -f /dev/ttyid1 9600 cs8 clocal -crtscts Tape records are: 0 tinyboot 1 copy 2 root.img Opening port /dev/ttyd1 .... Port open E11>show cpu Emulation: PDP-11/34a, FP11A NOASR, NOCCR, NOCDR, NOCHR, NOCMDR, NOCPUERR, NOCSM, NODSPACE, NODUALREGSET, NODESTFIRST, EIS, NOFPBACKOUT, FPP, NOHALT4, NOJMPPLUS2, JMP4, NOKTJ11B, NOMBR, NOMFPT, NOMMTRAPS, MMU, NOMMU22, NOMR, NOMSEA, NOMSER, MXPS, ODD, NOPARCSR, NOPCR, NOPIRQ, PSWIO, NOQBUS, NOSIZE, NOSPL, SR, NOSR1, NOSTACKLIM, NOSUPMODE, NOSYSID, NOTSTSET, UNDOAUTO, NOUMAP Host: Cyrix 486, NPX E11>g 70000 Opened tinyboot rrrrrrrrrrrrrr EOF 40tinyboot from virtual tape server Load tape record: 1 Opened copy rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrcopy Infile: vt(0,0,2) Outfile: rk(0,0,0) Opened root.img rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 100K sent rrrrrrrrrrrrrrr So no need for DZ-11, but many thanks to Norman, John and others who wrote code for me. I'll probably still try to add DZ-11 support. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA19994 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:44:56 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Jan 30 14:43:34 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA19990 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:44:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f0U4hYh32768 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:43:34 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200101300443.f0U4hYh32768(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:43:34 +1100 (EST) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Now that I (think I) have got a working system of loading a bootable disk image over a serial line into a PDP-11/34, can someone create a suitable disk image? I'm away until Feb 14th and won't be able to do it. The requestor is Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com>, who says: I've recently acquired a working PDP-11/34, with RK05s. (I also have some Plessey DD 11/80s for it.) My 11/34 is mapped, with 124k available; I also have another memory card with 128k on it, and if I can ever find any documentation on the Plessey memory cards and the memory management switch settings, I may have 252k one of these days. :-) I have only one DL/KL-11, but also a DZ11. He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download onto his real disk. Many thanks all! Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA21488 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:27:54 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Tue Jan 30 17:55:19 2001 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.44]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id WAA21484 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:27:51 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com) Received: from bigfoot.com (dsl-212-135-223-35.dsl.easynet.co.uk [212.135.223.35]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D518F81EE for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:54:33 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <3A767367.3B2FDC99(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 07:55:19 +0000 From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi, I have got 2.11 BSD (from the rp_unknown disk) up and working on the Supnik 2.3+BB1 simulator, configured as follows: set cpu 22b set cpu 2048K at rp0 mydisks/2.11BSD/2.11_rp_unknown boot rp While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following: - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. The makefile is: date2: date2.c cc -o date2 -c date2.c - 'make -n | sh' fails in the same way Is this a known problem that will be fixed by patches (none applied yet as the simulator is not networked)? Or do I need to provide more memory? Some other info: # uname -a 2.11BSD whistler-2bsd 2.11BSD 2.11 BSD UNIX #11: Tue Jan 6 16:57:02 MET 1998 root@pdp11.begemot.com:/usr/src/sys/HIPPON PDP11 By the way, if anyone else has 2.11 BSD in unpatched state and wants to set the date to 2001, email me for a copy of the updated date2.c program. Apart from this problem, 2.11BSD is working very nicely - I'm impressed that such a feature-rich Unix can even be run on a PDP-11! Cheers, Richard Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA22856 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:29:08 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Wed Jan 31 01:26:10 2001 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA22852 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:29:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk) Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14Ncgp-0009DZ-0A; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:27:28 +0000 Message-ID: <NatiWLAS0td6Ewpf(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:26:10 +0000 To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au Cc: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver References: <RQsFELAVoXd6EwKY(a)ruffnready.co.uk> <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> In-Reply-To: <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U <YSkKJATYm0AxAbv6xwlBrCeVCW> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In message <200101292137.f0TLb2d29560(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> writes >In article by Robin Birch: >> Warren, >> Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a >> tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You >> could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more >> complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be >> universal across all PDP11s. >> >> Robin > >I had thought of that. I'm not sure I want to write a terminal emulator :) >I guess I should ask those people with tapeless PDP-11s. > >If you had a method of booting and installing disk images over a serial >line, would you be happy with a serial line to a `tape server' separate >to your console line, or would you rather have the two combined? > > Warren Well, the terminal emulator doesn't have to be very sophisticated as once the thing was running properly then you would use what ever the PC system had installed. The "two separate" would probably be easier to create but it occurs to me that many PCs only have one serial line and the only serial line that is common to all 11s is the console therefore only needing a single driver. Robin ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA23022 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:57:09 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Tue Jan 30 17:19:44 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA23018 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 02:57:03 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:18:30 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <D8RC1PP1>; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:41 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB0D(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>, PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. (I even have some original shipping boxes.) BTW, the mail Warren cites below was sent before I had really dug into my 11/34's manuals; I have 124kW of MOS memory in the machine, and RSX-11M can use it all in a "mapped" configuration. Also, if I am going to transfer a disk image, I have another DL-11 I am going to install to make use of Warren's VTServer program. TIA -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Now that I (think I) have got a working system of loading a bootable disk image over a serial line into a PDP-11/34, can someone create a suitable disk image? I'm away until Feb 14th and won't be able to do it. The requestor is Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com>, who says: I've recently acquired a working PDP-11/34, with RK05s. (I also have some Plessey DD 11/80s for it.) My 11/34 is mapped, with 124k available; I also have another memory card with 128k on it, and if I can ever find any documentation on the Plessey memory cards and the memory management switch settings, I may have 252k one of these days. :-) I have only one DL/KL-11, but also a DZ11. He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download onto his real disk. Many thanks all! Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA23100 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 03:05:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Mark Green <mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca> Wed Jan 31 02:04:16 2001 Received: from scapa.cs.ualberta.ca (root(a)scapa.cs.ualberta.ca [129.128.4.44]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA23096 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 03:05:51 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca) Received: (from localhost user: 'mark' uid#150 fake: goodfare.cs.ualberta.ca) by scapa.cs.ualberta.ca id <S433530AbRA3QEQ>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:04:16 -0700 Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails In-Reply-To: <3A767367.3B2FDC99(a)bigfoot.com> from Richard Donkin at "Jan 30, 2001 07:55:19 am" From: Mark Green <mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca> To: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:04:16 -0700 (MST) CC: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL66 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <20010130160418Z433530-3339+182(a)scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > > While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex > Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following: > > - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary > > - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but > fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. > The makefile is: > > date2: date2.c > cc -o date2 -c date2.c Remove the -c flag, it tells the compiler to only compile the program and not produce an executable. > > - 'make -n | sh' fails in the same way > -- Dr. Mark Green mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca McCalla Professor (780) 492-4584 Department of Computing Science (780) 492-1071 (FAX) University of Alberta, Edmonton, Alberta, T6G 2H1, Canada Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23775 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:22:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Wed Jan 31 04:20:58 2001 Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23771 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:22:25 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl@localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA24283 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:20:58 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 10:20:58 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Message-Id: <200101301820.KAA24283(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. carl carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu > From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001 > From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> > To: "'wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>, > PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 > > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. > (I even have some original shipping boxes.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download > onto his real disk. > > Many thanks all! > > Warren > Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA23853 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:31:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Wed Jan 31 04:30:14 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA23848 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 05:31:44 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0UIUER28642; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:30:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A770836.5E42CF2B(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:30:14 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; NetBSD 1.5.1_ALPHA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <200101301820.KAA24283(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I'll second that. The V6 tape image I provided to PUPS has the usual boot blocks at the start of the tape then as I recall three RJ05 disk images. Long long ago I think I got folks interested in using emulators like Bob Supnik's by using the first tape disk image as the "disk" image for "sim" and booted V6... but it has been more than 6 years now since I did that and I may be rusty on details. -- Ken Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl > > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu > clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu > > > From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001 > > From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> > > To: "'wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>, > > PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> > > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 > > > > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a > > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. > > (I even have some original shipping boxes.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] > > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM > > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > > > > > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download > > onto his real disk. > > > > Many thanks all! > > > > Warren > >

24 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

I don't have a PDP-11, but I have done work in various ways with remote-device installs. If it were me I would prefer to be able to use a device distinct from the console, for several reasons: - a separate device might have an input silo (e.g. the DZ11 does); the console usually doesn't. A silo offers a little more robustness and may allow greater speeds. - it is better to keep the console available as a place for error messages to show up when things go wrong. - things are going to go wrong in any case, and I am going to have to try booting several times. If I have to get a serial-line switch or move cables back and forth, that is another thing that can go wrong, and another thing I can screw up. On the other hand, if I had the problem I would likely be happy to get any code that would help, whichever way it worked. So I also favour letting the implementor choose. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA18661 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:07:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Tue Jan 30 09:19:45 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA18657 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 11:07:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:18:44 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <D8RCCVFR>; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:19:55 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB07(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca'" <norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 15:19:45 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk That's why I've inquired of Warren about using the DZ-11 as the pseudo-device. I also have a console input (DL-11, from memory). The input silo is potentially a benefit, but it's not a panacea by any means -- it has to be handled pretty carefully. -- isk -----Original Message----- From: norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca [mailto:norman@nose.cs.utoronto.ca] Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 2:13 PM To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver I don't have a PDP-11, but I have done work in various ways with remote-device installs. If it were me I would prefer to be able to use a device distinct from the console, for several reasons: - a separate device might have an input silo (e.g. the DZ11 does); the console usually doesn't. A silo offers a little more robustness and may allow greater speeds. - it is better to keep the console available as a place for error messages to show up when things go wrong. - things are going to go wrong in any case, and I am going to have to try booting several times. If I have to get a serial-line switch or move cables back and forth, that is another thing that can go wrong, and another thing I can screw up. On the other hand, if I had the problem I would likely be happy to get any code that would help, whichever way it worked. So I also favour letting the implementor choose. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA19302 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:59:02 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca [mailto:norman@nose.cs.utoronto.ca] Tue Jan 30 11:56:50 2001 Received: from wantadilla.lemis.com (postfix(a)wantadilla.lemis.com [192.109.197.80]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA19298 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:58:46 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from grog(a)lemis.com) Received: by wantadilla.lemis.com (Postfix, from userid 1004) id 1488F6AC9D; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:26:50 +1030 (CST) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 12:26:50 +1030 From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> To: nanduri shankar <n_shankar_2001(a)yahoo.com> Cc: freebsd-doc(a)freebsd.org, UNIX Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: [pups] Re: regarding bsd 4.3 for vax machines documentation Message-ID: <20010130122650.D48490(a)wantadilla.lemis.com> References: <20010129184128.50518.qmail(a)web9007.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2.5i In-Reply-To: <20010129184128.50518.qmail(a)web9007.mail.yahoo.com>; from n_shankar_2001(a)yahoo.com on Mon, Jan 29, 2001 at 10:41:28AM -0800 Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-418-838-708 WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Monday, 29 January 2001 at 10:41:28 -0800, nanduri shankar wrote: > hello sir/madam, > i want to know the information about > the bsd 4.3 for vax machines . > let u provide me documentation regarding this topic. > iam waiting for your earliest reply. The FreeBSD documentation project doesn't deal with 4.3BSD, nor with Vaxen. Check the UNIX Heritage Society at http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/TUHS for details of 4.3BSD and how you can get it for the Vax. Greg -- Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA19420 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 13:24:19 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver

by Warren Toomey

In article by Robin Birch: > Warren, > Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a > tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You > could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more > complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be > universal across all PDP11s. > > Robin I had thought of that. I'm not sure I want to write a terminal emulator :) I guess I should ask those people with tapeless PDP-11s. If you had a method of booting and installing disk images over a serial line, would you be happy with a serial line to a `tape server' separate to your console line, or would you rather have the two combined? Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA18242 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 09:14:39 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

24 years, 3 months

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RE: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver

by Ian King

Warren, I have the DZ-11 docs; I'll scan the relevant sections and mail it to you. -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] Sent: Sunday, January 28, 2001 5:25 PM To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society Subject: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver Hi all, I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11 with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable unless you have a PDP-11/45. I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11 kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read. My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs? I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in responding. Thanks all, Warren struct vtdevice { int rcsr,rbuf; int tcsr,tbuf; }; #define NVT 2 struct vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = { (struct vtdevice *)0176500, /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */ (struct vtdevice *)0, (struct vtdevice *)-1 }; /* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */ char vtgetc() { register c; VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535; while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) { lotim--; if (lotim==0) hitim--; if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); } } c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c); } vtputc(c) register c; { register s; while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ; s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s; } Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA24991 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:17:28 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Wed Jan 31 08:13:30 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA24987 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:17:26 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f0UMDUQ35508; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200101302213.f0UMDUQ35508(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? In-Reply-To: <200101301820.KAA24283(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> from Carl Lowenstein at "Jan 30, 2001 10:20:58 am" To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL68 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Carl Lowenstein: > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( That's the problem. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25322 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:28:22 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Wed Jan 31 08:38:15 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA25314 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:28:18 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:48:28 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <D8RC2W0X>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:38:29 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com>, Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 14:38:15 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud) to spray it onto a disk. <sigh> Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 10:30 AM To: Carl Lowenstein Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? I'll second that. The V6 tape image I provided to PUPS has the usual boot blocks at the start of the tape then as I recall three RJ05 disk images. Long long ago I think I got folks interested in using emulators like Bob Supnik's by using the first tape disk image as the "disk" image for "sim" and booted V6... but it has been more than 6 years now since I did that and I may be rusty on details. -- Ken Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > carl > > carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego > {decvax|ucbvax} !ucsd!mpl!cdl cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu > clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu > > > From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 08:17 PST 2001 > > From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> > > To: "'wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au'" <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>, > > PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> > > Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 23:19:44 -0800 > > > > In fact, if someone has RK05s and isn't too far away, I'd love to get a > > bootable image on an RK05 cartridge -- of course I'd pay postage both ways. > > (I even have some original shipping boxes.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Warren Toomey [mailto:wkt@henry.cs.adfa.edu.au] > > Sent: Monday, January 29, 2001 8:44 PM > > To: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society > > Subject: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > > > > > > He'd like a 6th Edition bootable RK05 disk image that he can download > > onto his real disk. > > > > Many thanks all! > > > > Warren > > Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25337 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:29:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] Wed Jan 31 09:27:56 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25333 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:29:30 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0UNRuR29214; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:27:56 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A774DFC.8A3260E8(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 18:27:56 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; NetBSD 1.5.1_ALPHA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi Ian, Indeed, looks like there has been some bit rot on the archive... sigh. Luckily I am a pack rat and have copies of my Waterloo days data. The images are all clean there. Curiously enough I even found the directory where I ran that simulation (circa Oct/94 I see). I just rebuilt the code there and ran it on my NetBSD/i386 system and it boots V6 just fine. In case you don't read minds, after doing the 'attach ...' then 'boot rk0' the intuitive V6 boot prompt '@' is where you type 'rkunix' for example B^) Almost instantly I had a 'login:' prompt, and the image is off the tape so there is no root password set... Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^) Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000... maybe better to let it live back in 1975... I've tar/gzip'ed the bundle. Do you want me to try and UUencode it and mail it to you? It is nearly 1 Mbyte in binary form... Oh yeah, as Warren mentioned, stock V6 does not run on a '34. I think it ran on a '40. I know it can run on a '34 because in 1980 I started using UNIX, V6 running on a '34 B^) Cheers, -- Ken Ian King wrote: > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the > "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot > 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at > loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. > > If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running > E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the > serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get > one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud) > to spray it onto a disk. <sigh> > > Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. -- Ian Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25365 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:32:27 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Wed Jan 31 09:30:55 2001 Received: from chiton.ucsd.edu (chiton.ucsd.edu [192.135.238.128]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25361 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:32:23 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu) Received: (from cdl@localhost) by chiton.ucsd.edu (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA29420; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:30:55 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 15:30:55 -0800 (PST) From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Message-Id: <200101302330.PAA29420(a)chiton.ucsd.edu> To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk > From wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001 > From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> > Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> > Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) > CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In article by Carl Lowenstein: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > > > carl > > Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( > That's the problem. > > Cheers, > Warren Why, said he wonderingly. Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with MPTS and MFPS instructions? Thats all I can think of immediately. Pulling out my handy PDP-11 architecture handbook, I find this to be so. There are some other differences between 11/34 and 11/40-45 but this one would be a real show-stopper. The modifications to 6th Ed. Unix to take care of this would be concentrated in the save/raise/lower processor priority routines. Just offhand I don't think one could make a zero-length binary patch that would work on the 11/34 and remain 11/40-45 compatible. I guess I will look at locore.s tonight when I get home. That must be the place where such things happen. I wonder what the RT-11 guys did when they had the same problem. I seem to remember something involving creative use of stack pushes and RTI instructions to set the processor priority. carl Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA25390 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:35:01 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> Wed Jan 31 09:33:02 2001 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net [195.40.1.44]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA25383 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 10:34:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com) Received: from bigfoot.com (dsl-212-135-223-35.dsl.easynet.co.uk [212.135.223.35]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45018F8357; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:32:11 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <3A774F2E.46106B82(a)bigfoot.com> Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:33:02 +0000 From: Richard Donkin <rdonkin(a)bigfoot.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.14-15mdk i586) X-Accept-Language: en, fr MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mark Green <mark(a)cs.ualberta.ca> Cc: PUPS List <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: [pups] 2.11 BSD compilation fails References: <20010130160418Z433530-3339+182(a)scapa.cs.ualberta.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Mark Green wrote: > > > > > While tinkering with the date2.c program posted earlier by Alex > > Chupakhin, which now runs on 2.11 BSD btw, I discovered the following: > > > > - 'cc -o date2 date2.c' works fine, producing a 12K binary > > > > - a makefile containing this command fails - the compilation starts but > > fails silently, producing a 2K binary that is not marked executable. > > The makefile is: > > > > date2: date2.c > > cc -o date2 -c date2.c > Remove the -c flag, it tells the compiler to only compile the program > and not produce an executable. Ooops... I must have been up too late when I came up with that one. Thanks Richard Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA26019 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:46:59 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> Wed Jan 31 11:45:20 2001 Received: from mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (mailhost.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.169.1]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA26015 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 12:46:54 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from bill(a)cs.uofs.edu) Received: from triangle.cs.uofs.edu (IDENT:root@triangle.cs.uofs.edu [134.198.172.101]) by mailhost.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id UAA37178 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:45:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (bill@localhost) by triangle.cs.uofs.edu (8.9.3/8.8.6) with ESMTP id UAA03841 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:45:24 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: triangle.cs.uofs.edu: bill owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 20:45:20 -0500 (EST) From: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? In-Reply-To: <3A774DFC.8A3260E8(a)tampabay.rr.com> Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101302039390.3188-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote: > Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^) > > Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000... > maybe better to let it live back in 1975... > I assume it is just like Ultrix-11 was, soooooo Here's a quick way to get the date right until you get a chance to install a fixed "date" command. Yes, it is only the date command that is not Y2K ready. First: Set the date to 9912312359 Second: wait one minute. It is now 1 Jan 2000. Third: Set the date to 12312359 Fourth: wait one minute. It is now 1 Jan 2001. Fifth: Set the month, day, hour and minute to the current time. Voila. Primitive, but it works. I guess I could try building the GNU date command on Ultrix-11 or maybe just get the sources from FreeBSD. All the best. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h> Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27811 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:07:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Wed Jan 31 16:58:53 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA27807 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:07:29 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:03:00 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <D0V9B1YG>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:59:19 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB1A(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'Carl Lowenstein'" <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu>, wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 22:58:53 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Again, I'd be glad to do things like this, if I could get an image to run on an emulator -- that's been a goal. I've tried various 'processors' (in emulation), but not been successful at booting the Unix kernel. Can anyone say, "I booted image X on emulator Y and had a successfully running Unix"? If so, please please please share your experience -- I haven't been able to boot anything out of the PUPS archive on the E11 emulator (held out by some to be the best). And, if/when I have success, I promise to share a field report. :-) -- Ian -----Original Message----- From: Carl Lowenstein [mailto:cdl@mpl.ucsd.edu] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:31 PM To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > From wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Jan 30 14:16 PST 2001 > From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> > Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? > To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> > Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 09:13:30 +1100 (EST) > CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au > MIME-Version: 1.0 > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > In article by Carl Lowenstein: > > Just from the historical point of view, note that the first major > > file on a genuine 6th Edition distribution tape _is_ a bootable > > RK05 image. Something like 4000 blocks. > > > > carl > > Yes, but it doesn't boot on an 11/34 :( > That's the problem. > > Cheers, > Warren Why, said he wonderingly. Is the 11/34 one of those machines that does not have a directly addressable PSW at 177776 so it must be done with MPTS and MFPS instructions? Thats all I can think of immediately. Pulling out my handy PDP-11 architecture handbook, I find this to be so. There are some other differences between 11/34 and 11/40-45 but this one would be a real show-stopper. The modifications to 6th Ed. Unix to take care of this would be concentrated in the save/raise/lower processor priority routines. Just offhand I don't think one could make a zero-length binary patch that would work on the 11/34 and remain 11/40-45 compatible. I guess I will look at locore.s tonight when I get home. That must be the place where such things happen. I wonder what the RT-11 guys did when they had the same problem. I seem to remember something involving creative use of stack pushes and RTI instructions to set the processor priority. carl Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id SAA27852 for pups-liszt; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:13:33 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> Wed Jan 31 17:05:55 2001 Received: from mail3.microsoft.com (mail3.microsoft.com [131.107.3.123]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA27848 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 18:13:30 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from iking(a)microsoft.com) Received: from 157.54.9.100 by mail3.microsoft.com (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:04:36 -0800 (Pacific Standard Time) Received: by inet-imc-03.redmond.corp.microsoft.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <D0V9BGQ8>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:05:48 -0800 Message-ID: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB1C(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> From: Ian King <iking(a)microsoft.com> To: "'Ken Wellsch'" <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RE: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2001 23:05:55 -0800 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Ken, if you send it to my personal email account, there's no size restriction (I run the mail server); it's iking(a)killthewabbit.org. I would greatly appreciate your sending it to me. BTW, I've been using 1977 (the year I graduated fron high school) on my PDP-11 under RSX-11; some tools won't accept the "01" year. :-) Cheers -- isk PS: I've hired a lot of Waterloo folks -- smart buggers, the lot of them. :-) -----Original Message----- From: Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2001 3:28 PM To: Ian King Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? Hi Ian, Indeed, looks like there has been some bit rot on the archive... sigh. Luckily I am a pack rat and have copies of my Waterloo days data. The images are all clean there. Curiously enough I even found the directory where I ran that simulation (circa Oct/94 I see). I just rebuilt the code there and ran it on my NetBSD/i386 system and it boots V6 just fine. In case you don't read minds, after doing the 'attach ...' then 'boot rk0' the intuitive V6 boot prompt '@' is where you type 'rkunix' for example B^) Almost instantly I had a 'login:' prompt, and the image is off the tape so there is no root password set... Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^) Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000... maybe better to let it live back in 1975... I've tar/gzip'ed the bundle. Do you want me to try and UUencode it and mail it to you? It is nearly 1 Mbyte in binary form... Oh yeah, as Warren mentioned, stock V6 does not run on a '34. I think it ran on a '40. I know it can run on a '34 because in 1980 I started using UNIX, V6 running on a '34 B^) Cheers, -- Ken Ian King wrote: > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) I've also tried the > "Dennis" images, which are supposedly straight RK05 images; E11 won't boot > 'em. One issue on which I'm not clear: where is the boot address? Stuff at > loc 0 doesn't look like boot instructions. > > If I could get an image to run in an emulator (as I mentioned, I'm running > E11 from DBit), I'd write some cheesy little loader to bring it down the > serial line (I already have it sketched out); but until I can at least get > one to boot in the emulator, I'm reluctant to spend the hours (at 9600 baud) > to spray it onto a disk. <sigh> > > Any suggestions you may have would be greatly appreciated. -- Ian Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA29613 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 00:21:49 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch [mailto:kwellsch@tampabay.rr.com] Wed Jan 31 23:20:06 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA29604 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 00:21:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0VDK7R00577 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:20:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A781106.F7302A5A(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 08:20:06 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; NetBSD 1.5.1_ALPHA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <8D25F244B8274141B5D313CA4823F39C018EEB13(a)red-msg-06.redmond.corp.microsoft.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Ian King wrote: > > Ken, I tried using that image and gunzip told me there was a crc error; it > wouldn't unzip it. (I downloaded it three times, just in case there was a > transmission error -- twice by ftp, once by http.) So going over all the things I can easily do data integrity checks on, I've run 'gzip -tv' on all the GZip'ed things and found three that are apparently damaged: gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/dec/Ultrix-3.1/ultrix-3.1-bootape.tar.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/research/Ken_Wellsch_v6/v6.tape.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error gzip: ./PDP-11/Distributions/unsw/90/record0.gz: invalid compressed data--crc error I can't comment on the *.Z compressed archives as they do not do any crc. I will have to peruse my stack of archive CD's made at various stages of the archive to see if I have the other two (I have a good 'v6.tape.gz' file). I did not try and run the MD5 list yet. But this is an example of why I had been pushing for the use of MD5 for all items in the archive... B^) -- Ken Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA30614 for pups-liszt; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 03:08:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> Thu Feb 1 02:07:09 2001 Received: from arundel.fortyfour.org (138bus2.tampabay.rr.com [24.94.138.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA30610 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 03:08:43 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com) Received: from tampabay.rr.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by arundel.fortyfour.org (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f0VG79R00768; Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:07:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A78382D.37188B15(a)tampabay.rr.com> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 11:07:09 -0500 From: Ken Wellsch <kwellsch(a)tampabay.rr.com> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; NetBSD 1.5.1_ALPHA i386) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Bill Gunshannon <bill(a)cs.scranton.edu> CC: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] A bootable disk image for a PDP-11/34? References: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10101302039390.3188-100000(a)triangle.cs.uofs.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Bill Gunshannon wrote: > > On Tue, 30 Jan 2001, Ken Wellsch wrote: > > > Don't forget to type 'date' when logged in ... it is a hoot to see B^) > > > > Oh heck, never thought to actually try to set the date, post 2000... > > maybe better to let it live back in 1975... > > I assume it is just like Ultrix-11 was, soooooo > Here's a quick way to get the date right until you get a chance to > install a fixed "date" command. Yes, it is only the date command > that is not Y2K ready. No, V6 predates Ultrix-11 by just a bit I believe. The date setting format on V6 appears to be '1231245999', that is two digits for: month, day, hour, minute, year. A trailing 'p' means the hours are 12 based (and it is PM), otherwise 24 based. I can confirm as I expected that setting 0131110301 puts me at 1970 B^) No big deal. I can see in the 'date' source what it is doing... Thanks for the 'put it into the year 2001' method! -- Ken

24 years, 3 months

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[pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver

by Warren Toomey

Hi all, I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11 with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at: http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable unless you have a PDP-11/45. I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11 kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read. My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs? I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in responding. Thanks all, Warren struct vtdevice { int rcsr,rbuf; int tcsr,tbuf; }; #define NVT 2 struct vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = { (struct vtdevice *)0176500, /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */ (struct vtdevice *)0, (struct vtdevice *)-1 }; /* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */ char vtgetc() { register c; VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535; while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) { lotim--; if (lotim==0) hitim--; if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); } } c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c); } vtputc(c) register c; { register s; while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ; s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s; } Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA15283 for pups-liszt; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:14:40 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Tue Jan 30 00:11:33 2001 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net (finch-post-10.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA15279 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 30 Jan 2001 01:14:36 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk) Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14NF3N-0006Ms-0A; Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:13:10 +0000 Message-ID: <RQsFELAVoXd6EwKY(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2001 14:11:33 +0000 To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au Cc: PDP-11 Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Subject: Re: [pups] Help! Standalone DZ-11 driver References: <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> In-Reply-To: <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U <YSkKJATYm0AxAbv6xwlBrCeVCW> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Warren, Why not do this as a terminal emulator that can switch into emulating a tape drive by some start/stop messaging using the console device. You could upload a simple bootstrap using ODT that could then read a more complex boot driver in. If you use the console then that shoud be universal across all PDP11s. Robin In message <200101290124.f0T1Ois26299(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>, Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> writes >Hi all, > I'm working on a new version of my Vtserver, which allows a PDP-11 >with no tape drive to boot from a Unix/Linux server (via serial cable) and >install a UNIX. See ftp://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver > >At present I'm working on a new version which uses the 2.11BSD boot code >so as to support more disk drives. The work in progress is at: >http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Vtserver. At present it's not usable >unless you have a PDP-11/45. > >I've got a potential user with an 11/34, two RK05s and a DZ-11. I can't >find any details of DZ-11 here in my peripherals handbooks, and the 2.11 >kernel drivers are a bit too complicated to read. > >My existing KL-11 driver is below. Can someone come up with a standalone >equivalent for a DZ-11, or point me at some docs? > >I'll be away from 1st to 14th Feb, so there may be some delays in >responding. > >Thanks all, > Warren > > >struct vtdevice { > int rcsr,rbuf; > int tcsr,tbuf; >}; > >#define NVT 2 >struct vtdevice *VTcsr[NVT + 1] = { > (struct vtdevice *)0176500, /* We use VTcsr[0] unit 1 */ > (struct vtdevice *)0, > (struct vtdevice *)-1 >}; > >/* Get a character, or timeout and return with hitim zero */ >char vtgetc() >{ > register c; > > VTcsr[0]->rcsr = 1; hitim=3; lotim=65535; > > while ((VTcsr[0]->rcsr&0200)==0) { > lotim--; > if (lotim==0) hitim--; > if (hitim==0) { putchar('t'); return(0); } > } > c = VTcsr[0]->rbuf; return(c); >} > >vtputc(c) >register c; >{ > register s; > > while((VTcsr[0]->tcsr&0200) == 0) ; > s = VTcsr[0]->tcsr; > VTcsr[0]->tcsr = 0; VTcsr[0]->tbuf = c; VTcsr[0]->tcsr = s; >} ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome

24 years, 3 months

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[pups] Re: Ultrix-11 Latest News

by bill＠cs.scranton.edu

[This is a courtesy copy of a message which was also posted to the newsgroup(s) shown in the header.] In article <944vup$3e6$1(a)news.IAEhv.nl>, "Hans Vlems" <hvlems(a)iae.nl> writes: |> Bill, |> |> tried to telnet but no joy |> |> Bill Gunshannon heeft geschreven in bericht |> <944t6p$1o3d$1(a)info.cs.uofs.edu>... |> >Ok, here it is. An 11/23+ running Ultrix-11 3.1, available on the |> >Net. |> > |> >telnet to 134.198.175.226 |> >login as guest |> >password is ultrix11 Well, the bad news it it appears I forgot that at one time no the distnat past TTL was set to some very low number. If you are more than a couple hops away from the University of Scranton you won't be able to get in yet. However, good news on two fronts. I have put up the sources and if I have the time I will try to find the offending bit this weekend. (Anybody who remembers fixing this in any Ultrix-11 or Ultrix-32 when it happened originaly feel free to save me the trouble of searching through the source.) the other good news is I may be acquiring an 11/93 shortly. If I do and it actually still works (one never knows inthese acquisitions) I will probably be putting Ultrix-11 on it and building a Split I&D system. That will then become the system I will put on the Net to play with. Hsve a nice weekend, all. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>

24 years, 4 months

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[pups] Ultrix-11 Latest News

by Bill Gunshannon

It was pointed out to me that I was remiss in not making this announcement here as well as on USENET. Mea culpa, mea culpa. ------- Ok, here it is. An 11/23+ running Ultrix-11 3.1, available on the Net. telnet to 134.198.175.226 login as guest password is ultrix11 Don't expect much. As I said, it's only an 11/23+. It has 3M of memory and an RA81 disk. Things like ftp "run", but they don't "work". Look to be lack of buffer space, but without any documentation I have not found out how to tune it any more than it is now. Of course, if I ever get an 11/73 running I could build a split I&D system which should be considerably better. Please don't try to crash it. It is likely to do that all by itself anyway and you would just keep others from trying it out. No, it's not running any critical applications. If you want to move some code over to try the compiler or something, try "gkermit". But remember, it won;t stream and it needs real small packets. I await any comments and am still hoping someone will find a box of Ultrix-11 docs sitting in a closet somewhere that I will gladly pay to ship here. All the best. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill(a)cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include <std.disclaimer.h>

24 years, 4 months

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[pups] Stupid question..

by Martijn van Buul

Hey. I'm playing around with a /53 running 2.11BSD, trying to port some software, and I have a (probably stupid) problem: environ. When I write a simple program like #include <stdio.h> extern char **environ; void main(argc, argv) int argc; char **argv; { printf("Hello world!"); environ=environ; } and compile & link it using cc ("cc -o test test.c"), things go fine, however if I link things manually ("cc -c test.c ; ld -o test test.o -lc") I get an unresolved _environ. By some experimentation, I noticed that including /lib/crt0.o in the linker helps to some extent - however, the binary generated by cc works like a charm, while the manually linked version quits with a bus error. Any ideas? -- Martijn van Buul - Pino(a)dohd.org - http://www.stack.nl/~martijnb/ Geek code: G-- - Visit OuterSpace: mud.stack.nl 3333 Kees J. Bot: The sum of CPU power and user brain power is a constant. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA08435 for pups-liszt; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:22:57 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Tue Jan 16 08:15:45 2001 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08430 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:22:55 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.11.1/8.9.3) id f0FMTm309828 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:29:48 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from moe.2bsd.com (MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA08355 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 16 Jan 2001 09:17:00 +1100 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.10.1/8.10.1) id f0FMFjJ26746 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:15:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2001 14:15:45 -0800 (PST) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200101152215.f0FMFjJ26746(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: [pups] Stupid question.. Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi - > From: Martijn van Buul <pino(a)dohd.org> > > however if I link things manually ("cc -c test.c ; ld -o test test.o -lc") > I get an unresolved _environ. By some experimentation, I noticed that > including /lib/crt0.o in the linker helps to some extent - however, > the binary generated by cc works like a charm, while the manually > linked version quits with a bus error. Any ideas? Try placing /lib/crt0.o before the test.o: ld -o test /lib/crt0.o test.o -lc on another note it's usually not a good idea to call a program 'test' because when you are least expecting it you will end up running /bin/test and wonder what is wrong. Steven

24 years, 4 months

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[pups] RL0{1,2} platters available in Portland, OR

by Aaron J. Grier

my company was recently doing some housecleaning and unearthed about a dozen RL01 and RL02 platters, along with a bunch of 8" RT-11 floppies, and doc set for RT-11. seeing that used platters seem to still be rather common, I'm sure I can talk accounting into letting them go for the price of shipping. Likewise with the floppies and documentation. (of course Portland people can pick up for free, or if you're in SE PDX, I can deliver!) We have the original DEC packaging for many of the platters, and can ship worldwide via UPS, DHL, etc... I guess to bring things back on topic a little, what's the background / specs of the RL-series drives? I know they're 5 and 10MB, but that's about it. What interface boards were available for the various PDPs and VAXen? How fast(?)/reliable/cranky were these things? :) -- Aaron J. Grier | "Not your ordinary poofy goof." | agrier(a)poofygoof.com "[I]f you can find the purity in hardcore and gabber, I guess you're already screwed up enough." -- Drew Smith

24 years, 4 months

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[pups] Dead period on tuhs, pups lists

by Warren Toomey

All, I'm just off for a 4-day break, so messages for the tuhs and pups mailing lists will be queued until I get back. Hope you all have a safe and happy festive time! Cheers, Warren

24 years, 5 months

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