TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

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6224 discussions

by Mychaela Falconia

Hello fellow lovers of old UNIX, Would anyone happen to have a raster scan (not OCR) of the original printing of UNIX Programmer's Manual, 7th edition? Does such a thing exist? Given that Brian S. Walden produced and published a PDF reprint of this manual (presumably done with some "modern" version of troff) back in 1998, I reason that there probably wasn't much interest in preserving the original print by painstaking scanning (and the files from such a scan would have been ginormous by 1998 standards), hence I am not certain if such a scanned version exists - but I thought I would ask nonetheless. I was however very pleased to discover that some very kind soul named Erica Fischer did scan and upload the complete set of Usenix printed books for 4.2BSD and 4.3BSD - here is the 4.2BSD version: https://archive.org/details/uum-ref-4.2bsd https://archive.org/details/uum-supplement-4.2bsd https://archive.org/details/upm-ref-4.2bsd https://archive.org/details/upm-supplement-4.2bsd https://archive.org/details/smm-4.2bsd and here is 4.3BSD: https://archive.org/details/uum-ref-4.3bsd https://archive.org/details/uum-supplement-4.3bsd https://archive.org/details/upm-ref-4.3bsd https://archive.org/details/upm-sup1-4.3bsd https://archive.org/details/upm-sup2-4.3bsd https://archive.org/details/smm-4.3bsd https://archive.org/details/uum-index-4.3bsd It is my understanding that all supplementary docs (the papers that were originally in volumes 2a and 2b in the V7 manual) were retroffed by UCB/Usenix for 4.3BSD edition, but the earlier 4.2BSD Usenix print seems to be different - it looks like for 4.2BSD they only did a new troff run for all man pages and for new (Berkeley-added) supplementary docs, but in the case of docs which originally appeared in V7 vol 2, it appears that Usenix did some kind of analogue mass reproduction from a historical V7 master, *without* doing a new troff run on those docs. *If* this hypothesis is correct, then Erica's uploaded scan of 4.2BSD manuals can serve as a practical substitute for the presumably- missing scan of the original printing of V7 manual - but I would like to double-check my hypothesis with others who are presumably more knowledgeable about this ancient history (some of you actually lived through that history, unlike me!), hence the reason for this post. I would appreciate either confirmation or correction of the guesses and conjectures I expressed above. M~

3 months

32V filesystem images to verify code against.

by Jacob Moody

Hello TUHS, I recently have been working on the Plan 9 fs/v6fs and fs/v32fs programs, another member of the community had noticed bugs within them and I wanted to verify that the new code is working as expected. I haven't had an issue verifying v6fs using files from the TUHS archive but v32fs has proved to be a bit more tricky. After a little bit of work we were able to get the 'file2' located at https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/32V/ to mount and read files. But given that all the files here are binaries it was a bit hard to make sure we're getting the correct information. I attempted to cross reference the files I get against the file2.tar also located within that spot in the archive but I am getting tar errors when extracting this file, so its not exactly obvious if what I am checking against is correct. So I would like to ask if someone here knows exactly what the sha1sums of these files are supposed to be and/or has another image with known contents I could test against. I will preface this with the fact that I am not very well versed in old UNIX filesystems so please let me know if I've missed anything. Thank you, Jacob Moody

3 months, 1 week

Unix System V on the Public Domain 32000 (NS32016 chip set) reproduction

by Andrew Lynch

Hi I am interested in reconstructing the Public Domain 32000 (PD32) which appeared in 1986 edition of MicroCornicopia. It claimed to run Unix System V on a PC 8-bit ISA board using the NS32016 chip set. Does anyone remember this system and/or have any interest in it? Here is a link from Hackaday more fully describing the effort: ISA bus slave NS32016 processor board | Hackaday.io Thanks, Andrew Lynch

3 months, 1 week

Re: Mills' initial implementation of FTP - best citation?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Paul Ruizendaal >> the ambiguous phrase "had the first implementation of FTP", which >> has been flagged as needing clarification > From RFC 354 ... and from RFC 414 Those are NCP FTP, a slightly different protocol, and implementation, from TCP FTP. (The code from the NCP one was sometimes recycled into the TCP one; see e.g.: https://github.com/PDP-10/its-vault/blob/master/files/sysnet/ftpu.161 which has both in one program.) These RFC's you listed are obviously pre-TCP; the first TCP RFC is RFC-675. (The first RFC that even mentions TCP seems to be RFC-661.) RFC's are all NCP-related until around #700 or so, when the mix starts to change. Maybe the "needing clarification" refers to these two different FTP's? Without an explicit classifier, does that text refer to NCP FTP or TCP FTP? Noel

3 months, 3 weeks

Re: Mills' initial implementation of FTP - best citation?

by jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu

> From: Bakul Shah > He was part of NSFNet, so could have got first FTP on NSFnet or a > later version of FTP. You all are talking about _two separate FTP's_ (as I pointed out previously). If you all would stop confusing yourselves, you'd be able to sort out the bogons. In this particular case, the NSFnet appeared at a _much_ later stage of the growth of the Internet (yes, it is spelled with a capital 'I'; the morons at the AP were not aware that 'internet' was a pre-existing word with a _different meaning_) than when Dave was working with the Fuzzball, and by that point there were _many_ TCP FTP's (e.g. the ITS one I previously sent the URL to the source for), so the 'first FTP on NSFnet' is a non-concept. The best bet for accurate data is to look at the TCP meeting minutes from the IEN series: https://www.rfc-editor.org/ien/ien-index.html Looking quickly, the first one that Dave appears in might be IEN-160, "Internet Meeting Notes -- 7-8-9 October 1980". (He wasn't in the "Attendees" lists of any of the earlier ones I looked at.) Look in the "Status Reports" sections to see if he says anything about where he's at. The one for this one says: "Dave described the configuration of equipment at COMSAT which consists of a number of small hosts, mainly LSI-11s. ... COMSAT has also used NIFTP to transmit files between their hosts and ISIE. The NIFTP software was provided by UCL. ... COMSAT plans to .. arrange a permanent connection to the ARPANET." I have no idea what a "NIFTP" might be. Also, there is a reason that serious historians prefer contemporary written records, not people's memories. Noel

3 months, 3 weeks

Re: Mills' initial implementation of FTP - best citation?

by Paul Ruizendaal

> I see that the wording on his Wikipedia page has the ambiguous phrase "had > the first implementation of FTP", which has been flagged as needing > clarification, so I intend to provide it. > > In both this interview: > > https://conservancy.umn.edu/bitstream/handle/11299/113899/oh403dlm.pdf > > ... and this video recording of Mills himself giving a lecture at UDel: > > https://youtu.be/08jBmCvxkv4?t=428 > > ... it's quite clear that it's literally true - he authored, compiled, > installed, implemented, and tested the very first (and apparently second) > FTP server. It may be impossible to provide hard evidence. From RFC 354 it seems to me that the protocol took on a recognisable shape around July 1972 and from RFC 414 it seems to me that there were a number of implementations by November 1972, and unfortunately Dave Mills is not mentioned. His recollection may well be correct, but finding proof he was the first in a 4 months time slot 50+ years ago may be too ambitious. https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc354.txt https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc414.txt Maybe the internet history list can shed some more light on the matter: https://elists.isoc.org/mailman/listinfo/internet-history

3 months, 3 weeks

(Off topic) Dave Mills

by George Michaelson

Dave Mills, of fuzzball and ntp fame, one time U Delaware died on the 17th of January. He was an interesting, entertaining, prolific and rather idosyncratic emailer. Witty and informative. G

3 months, 3 weeks

Mills' initial implementation of FTP - best citation?

by Royce Williams

What is the best public, unambiguous, non-YouTube reference I can cite for the late David Mills' initial FTP work? I see that the wording on his Wikipedia page has the ambiguous phrase "had the first implementation of FTP", which has been flagged as needing clarification, so I intend to provide it. In both this interview: https://conservancy.umn.edu/bitstream/handle/11299/113899/oh403dlm.pdf ... and this video recording of Mills himself giving a lecture at UDel: https://youtu.be/08jBmCvxkv4?t=428 ... it's quite clear that it's literally true - he authored, compiled, installed, implemented, and tested the very first (and apparently second) FTP server. But Wikipedia's guidelines discourage YouTube-only citations, and the text in the interview seems insufficiently detailed to have citation value. What is the best reference I can cite? Thanks! -- Royce

3 months, 3 weeks

Re: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff

by G. Branden Robinson

Hi Lennart, At 2024-01-18T15:45:55+0000, Lennart Jablonka wrote: > Quoth John Gardner: > > Thanks for reminding me, Branden. :) I've yet to get V7 Unix working with > > the latest release of SimH, so that's kind of stalled my ability to develop > > something in K&R-friendly C. > > I went ahead and write a little C/A/T-to-later-troff-output converter in > v7-friendly and C89-conforming C: > > https://git.sr.ht/~humm/catdit This is an exciting prospect but I can't actually see anything there. I get an error. "401 Unauthorized You don't have the necessary permissions to access this page. Index" > I’m not confident in having got the details of spacing right (Is that > 55-unit offset when switching font sizes correct?) I've never heard of this C/A/T feature/wart before. Huh. > and the character codes emitted are still those of the C/A/T, > resulting in the wrong glyphs being used. The codes should probably be remapped by default, with a command-line option to restore the original ones. I would of course recommend writing out 'C' commands with groff special character names. > I created the attached document like this: > > v7$ troff -t /usr/man/man0/title >title.cat > host$ catdit <title.cat | dpost -F. -Tcat >title.ps > > (Where do the two blank pages at the end come from?) Good question; we may need to rouse a C/A/T expert. > PS: Branden, for rougher results, if you happen to have a Tektronix > 4014 at hand (like the one emulated by XTerm), you can use that to > look at v7 troff’s output. Tell your SIMH to pass control bytes > through and run troff -t | tc. I'd love to, just please make your repo available to the public. :) Regards, Branden

3 months, 4 weeks

Re: Original print of V7 manual? / My own version of troff

by Mychaela Falconia

John Gardner wrote: > I'm a professional graphic designer with access to commercial typeface > authoring software. Send me the highest-quality and most comprehensive > scans of a C/A/T-printed document, and I'll get to work. Are you offering to donate your labor in terms of typeface design, or will it be a type of deal where the community will need to collectively pitch in money to cover the cost of you doing it professionally? In either case, the "C/A/T-printed document" of most value to this project would be the same one G. Branden Robinson is referring to: > If you don't have my scan of CSTR #54 (1976), which helpfully dumps all > of the glyphs in the faces used by the Bell Labs CSRC C/A/T-4, let me > know and I'll send it along. I won't vouch for its high quality but it > should be comprehensive with respect to coverage. The paper in question is Nroff/Troff User's Manual by Joseph F. Ossanna, dated 1976-10-11, which was indeed also CSTR #54. The document is 33 pages long in its original form, and page 31 out of the 33 is the most interesting one for the purpose of font recreation: it is the page that exhibits all 4 fonts of 102 characters each. Here are the few published scans I am aware of: 1) Page 245 of: http://bitsavers.org/pdf/att/unix/7th_Edition/UNIX_Programmers_Manual_Seven… 2) Page 235 of: http://bitsavers.org/pdf/att/unix/7th_Edition/UNIX_Programmers_Manual_Seven… 3) Page 239 of: http://bitsavers.org/pdf/att/unix/7th_Edition/VA-004A_UNIX_Programmers_Manu… 4) Page 499 of: https://archive.org/details/uum-supplement-4.2bsd Question to Branden: the scan you are referring to as "my scan", how does it compare to the 4 I just linked above? If your scan has better quality than all 4 versions I linked above, can you please make it public? M~

3 months, 4 weeks

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