24 Dec
2021
24 Dec
'21
5:38 a.m.
All,
Are there any bootable media available for any SVR 2 systems available
online? Or are they all under IP lock and key? If so, what's the closest
system that is available to get a feel for that variety of OS?
Happy holidays, folks.
Will
24 Dec
24 Dec
8:09 a.m.
On Thu, Dec 23, 2021 at 9:39 PM Will Senn <will.senn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
All,
Are there any bootable media available for any SVR 2 systems available
online? Or are they all under IP lock and key? If so, what's the closest
system that is available to get a feel for that variety of OS?
You can find pointers to System Vr4.2 on i386 here
https://www.in-ulm.de/~mascheck/various/ancient/ as well as System III, but
nothing in between.
http://squoze.net/UNIX/sysV_pdp11/Installation has system Vr1 on a pdp-11
installation instructions. This is, as far as I know, the only version of
System V that ran on the pdp-11. The porting target was changed to the VAX
in system Vr2 (though there were VAX versions of both System Vr1 and System
III, the latter on squoze.net)
https://archive.org/details/ATTUNIXSystemVRelease4Version2 has the sources
to the different System V releases and claims to have a cpio of the System
Vr2 sources that could create a bootable system.
On vetusware.com, you can search for SYSVr2 and find 2 entries. I've not
looked at them. One claims to be the source, and the other claims to be a
dump of /usr with sources and binaries (but no "/" nor bootable tapes it
would appear). The entries for these indicate there's animport of BSD code,
but no TCP/IP.
Finally, there's this page on installing System Vr3 on a 3b2 from scratch.
https://loomcom.com/3b2/installing_unix.html looks good to my eye. It's an
installation from floppies.
But no bootable tapes that my googling could find.
Warner
5:20 p.m.
On 12/24/21 1:09 AM, Warner Losh wrote:
On Thu, Dec 23, 2021 at 9:39 PM Will Senn <will.senn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
All,
Are there any bootable media available for any SVR 2 systems
available online? Or are they all under IP lock and key? If so,
what's the closest system that is available to get a feel for that
variety of OS?
You can find pointers to System Vr4.2 on i386 here
https://www.in-ulm.de/~mascheck/various/ancient/ as well as System
III, but nothing in between.
http://squoze.net/UNIX/sysV_pdp11/Installation has system Vr1 on a
pdp-11 installation instructions. This is, as far as I know, the only
version of System V that ran on the pdp-11. The porting target was
changed to the VAX in system Vr2 (though there were VAX versions of
both System Vr1 and System III, the latter on squoze.net
<http://squoze.net>).
https://archive.org/details/ATTUNIXSystemVRelease4Version2 has the
sources to the different System V releases and claims to have a cpio
of the System Vr2 sources that could create a bootable system.
On vetusware.com <http://vetusware.com>, you can search for SYSVr2 and
find 2 entries. I've not looked at them. One claims to be the source,
and the other claims to be a dump of /usr with sources and binaries
(but no "/" nor bootable tapes it would appear). The entries for these
indicate there's animport of BSD code, but no TCP/IP.
Finally, there's this page on installing System Vr3 on a 3b2 from
scratch. https://loomcom.com/3b2/installing_unix.html looks good to my
eye. It's an installation from floppies.
But no bootable tapes that my googling could find.
Warner
Thanks Warner. I remembered 3b2 coming available, but had lost track of
where. Thanks for the summary and links.
Will
12:20 p.m.
On 23/12/21, Will Senn wrote:
All,
Are there any bootable media available for any SVR 2 systems available
online? Or are they all under IP lock and key? If so, what's the closest
system that is available to get a feel for that variety of OS?
Many years ago I got an image from betaarchive.com I believe. I no
longer can find the thread about and the link is probably dead anyway,
but I found the original file and put it here:
http://squoze.net/_misc/Unix%20SYSVr2%20for%20the%20VAX%2011-780.7z
SysVR1 for VAX is still something i'd like to see some day...
Happy holidays, folks.
And to you!
aap
2:56 p.m.
On Thu, Dec 23, 2021 at 11:39 PM Will Senn <will.senn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
All,
Are there any bootable media available for any SVR 2 systems available
online?
I'm interested in learning what it is specifically about the SVR2 system
that you are curious? As Warner pointed out, the reference system ISA for
the folks in Summit, NJ started changing from the PDP-11 to VAX at that
point. By SVR3 it became a WE32000 and by SVR4.2 it was the Intel 386.
Besides the ISA changes for the core kernel and the collection of supported
user space programs, SYS V took a number twists and turns [for different
reasons, some in hindsight, proved questionable] - but nonetheless.
Other than the native support for the Vax, IIRC there really was not a lot
special in SVR2 - while SVR1 and SVR3 [and later SVR4.2] were actually
substantially different from their predecessors.
5:27 p.m.
On 12/24/21 7:56 AM, Clem Cole wrote:
On Thu, Dec 23, 2021 at 11:39 PM Will Senn <will.senn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
All,
Are there any bootable media available for any SVR 2 systems
available online?
I'm interested in learning what it is specifically about the SVR2
system that you are curious? As Warner pointed out, the reference
system ISA for the folks in Summit, NJ started changing from the
PDP-11 to VAX at that point. By SVR3 it became a WE32000 and by
SVR4.2 it was the Intel 386.
Clem,
Ha! I'm curious by nature. I recently was sent a book that references
SVR2 and that is enough impetus for me to want to try it out 'for real'
:). Shiny object, for sure.
Besides the ISA changes for the core kernel and the collection of
supported user space programs, SYS V took a number twists and turns
[for different reasons, some in hindsight, proved questionable] - but
nonetheless.
Other than the native support for the Vax, IIRC there really was not a
lot special in SVR2 - while SVR1 and SVR3 [and later SVR4.2] were
actually substantially different from their predecessors.
Which is why I went looking for SVR2 - substantive (although to me
completely opaque) differences from SVR1 and SVR3. The book mentions
SVR2, not SVR1 or SVR3, though, I'm sure it applies equally well to
those as well, I'm just a sucker for the closest experience I can get
without driving myself off the rails trying to get things working. Turns
out it isn't horrible, this time. Angelo's Vax 780 version works about
like v6/v7 in SIMH - stupid # and @ stuff, but I'm guessing I can change
it without mucking about in the source this time. - stty'll prolly do it.
Later,
Will
7:32 p.m.
On 12/24/21 9:27 AM, Will Senn wrote:
Ha! I'm curious by nature. I recently was sent a
book that references
SVR2 and that is enough impetus for me to want to try it out 'for real'
:). Shiny object, for sure.
/Chuckle/
I'm following suit for 4.4BSD as I've got The Design and Implementation
of the 4.4BSD Operating System book (ISBN: 0-201-54979-4) on my desk.
Sadly it seems as if 4.4BSD-Encumbered would be required to run it on a
VAX emulator and 4.4BSD-Lite is apparently non-starter.
I'm also wondering if 386BSD on a PC would be close enough. Though I
think that it, and it's ilk, is based on 4.3BSD Net/2. I don't know
what the effective differences will be. :-/
In some ways I sort of which I had picked up the 4.3BSD counterpart to
the book.
Which is why I went looking for SVR2
s/SVR2/4.4BSD/
I'm just a sucker for the closest experience I
can get without driving
myself off the rails trying to get things working.
#truth
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
8:26 p.m.
On Fri, 24 Dec 2021 at 13:33, Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
wrote:
I'm following suit for 4.4BSD as I've got The Design and Implementation
of the 4.4BSD Operating System book (ISBN: 0-201-54979-4) on my desk.
Sadly it seems as if 4.4BSD-Encumbered would be required to run it on a
VAX emulator and 4.4BSD-Lite is apparently non-starter.
4.4's /usr/src/sys/vax/README:
The VAX architecture does not compile in 4.4BSD, as it has
not been converted to the new VM. It is here for porting
information purposes only.
The best you can do as-is on a VAX is 4.3-Reno.
-Henry
8:31 p.m.
On Fri, Dec 24, 2021, 12:26 PM Henry Bent <henry.r.bent(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 24 Dec 2021 at 13:33, Grant Taylor via TUHS
<tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org wrote:
Vax was running early on with NetBSD. That will be super close to D&I...
Warner
I'm following suit for 4.4BSD as I've got The Design and Implementation
of the 4.4BSD Operating System book (ISBN: 0-201-54979-4) on my desk.
Sadly it seems as if 4.4BSD-Encumbered would be required to run it on a
VAX emulator and 4.4BSD-Lite is apparently non-starter.
4.4's /usr/src/sys/vax/README:
The VAX architecture does not compile in 4.4BSD, as it has
not been converted to the new VM. It is here for porting
information purposes only.
The best you can do as-is on a VAX is 4.3-Reno.
10:27 p.m.
On 12/24/21 12:31 PM, Warner Losh wrote:
Vax was running early on with NetBSD. That will be
super close to D&I...
Noted about NetBSD. Thank you Warner.
Will there be any substantive differences between NetBSD on VAX and
NetBSD on 386 PC? The latter can easily be run in mostly normal
virtualization. Or so I assume. The former can be run on emulated
hardware.
Much like Will, I'm trying to get "...the closest experience I can get
without driving myself off the rails trying to get things working."
I suppose I could, perhaps should, simply start reading the book to see
if I actually feel the need to look at a running system.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
8:35 p.m.
Actually, you can do better than 4.3 BSD on a VAX - NetBSD 9.2 runs on VAXen.
See http://wiki.netbsd.org/ports/vax/
Erik
10:23 p.m.
On 12/24/21 12:26 PM, Henry Bent wrote:
4.4's /usr/src/sys/vax/README:
The VAX architecture does not compile in 4.4BSD, as it has
not been converted to the new VM. It is here for porting
information purposes only.
Okay. :-/
The best you can do as-is on a VAX is 4.3-Reno.
At the risk of showing my BSD ignorance, what architectures does 4.4BSD
run on? I had assumed it was VAX, but it seems that assumption was wrong.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
26 Dec
26 Dec
1:37 p.m.
New subject: 4.4BSD run on (Re: Are there images of any SVR2's available online?)
From: Grant Taylor via TUHS <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
what architectures does 4.4BSD run on?
http://docs.freebsd.org/44doc/smm/01.setup/paper-2.html
Primary target arch was HP9000/300. It seems that there were
Sun SPARC (sun4c only), and R2000,R3000 based DECstation binaries.
If you want to run on emulator, you might use DECstation (pmax) binary
that I compiled below with GXemul.
http://www.netside.co.jp/~mochid/comp/bsd44-build/
-mochid
24 Dec
24 Dec
5:57 p.m.
On Thu, Dec 23, 2021, at 8:38 PM, Will Senn wrote:
All,
Are there any bootable media available for any SVR 2 systems available online? Or are
they all under IP lock and key? If so, what's the closest system that is available to
get a feel for that variety of OS?
Happy holidays, folks.
Will
I have preserved the installation diskettes for AT&T System V Release 2.0.5 for 3B2
here:
https://archives.loomcom.com/3b2/software/System_V_Release_2.0.5/
It should work on the SIMH 3B2/400 emulator, but it occurs to me I've never actually
tried a full installation from these before (I've always used SVR 3)
-Seth
--
Seth Morabito
Poulsbo, WA
web(a)loomcom.com
7:45 p.m.
On 12/24/21 10:57 AM, Seth Morabito wrote:
On Thu, Dec 23, 2021, at 8:38 PM, Will Senn wrote:
Wow, Seth. Your site is very well organized! I'm now busy with my new Christmas
holidays project of setting up UNIX System V Release 2.0.5 on the SIMH 3B2/400.
Thanks for the steer in that direction. I have the working VAX version to compare with and
fall back on if I can't get it working. I'll follow your howto:
https://loomcom.com/3b2/installing_unix.html
and note any differences along the way.
Thanks and later,
Will
All,
Are there any bootable media available for any SVR 2 systems available online? Or are
they all under IP lock and key? If so, what's the closest system that is available to
get a feel for that variety of OS?
Happy holidays, folks.
Will
I have preserved the installation diskettes for AT&T System V Release
2.0.5 for 3B2 here:
https://archives.loomcom.com/3b2/software/System_V_Release_2.0.5/
It should work on the SIMH 3B2/400 emulator, but it occurs to me I've never actually
tried a full installation from these before (I've always used SVR 3)
-Seth
--
Seth Morabito
Poulsbo, WA
web(a)loomcom.com
26 Dec
26 Dec
4:11 p.m.
On 12/24/21 10:57 AM, Seth Morabito wrote:
On Thu, Dec 23, 2021, at 8:38 PM, Will Senn wrote:
Just to close the loop on this... the 3b2 Core System V Release 2.0.5
floppies, C-Kermit, and the Editor Utilities borrowed from the Core
System V Release 3.2 files (gotta have vi) work great under SIMH's
3b2/400. The same goes for Basic, C, Fortran, Pascal, Document
Workbench, and Writers Workbench... (well at least they install, I
haven't tested them all yet).
Later,
Will
All,
Are there any bootable media available for any SVR 2 systems available online? Or are
they all under IP lock and key? If so, what's the closest system that is available to
get a feel for that variety of OS?
Happy holidays, folks.
Will
I have preserved the installation diskettes for AT&T System V Release
2.0.5 for 3B2 here:
https://archives.loomcom.com/3b2/software/System_V_Release_2.0.5/
It should work on the SIMH 3B2/400 emulator, but it occurs to me I've never actually
tried a full installation from these before (I've always used SVR 3)
-Seth 
4:17 p.m.
Another S5R2 system is available here:
https://github.com/philpem/freebee
This is an emulator for the AT&T 3B1, a 68010 system with a
mostly S5R2 user land and a primitive windowing system. The github
page has links to pre-built disk images as well as instructions
with links on installing from floppy images.
Arnold
24 Dec
24 Dec
7:02 p.m.
On Thu, Dec 23, 2021 at 10:38:38PM -0600, Will Senn wrote:
Are there any bootable media available for any SVR 2
systems available online?
Or are they all under IP lock and key? If so,
what's the closest system that is
available to get a feel for that variety of OS?
A/UX for one.. It's available in images and it may be bootable on an
m68k Mac emulator.
Finding a more 'vanilla' AT&T SVR2 image may indeed be tricky though..
I have run into quite a lot of SVR2 UNIX installs in the past (on
all sorts of CPU's), but in many cases these were fairly dedicated or almost
'embedded' systems and not so much generic-use UNIX boxes apart from a few
like A/UX.
I suspect the relatively small footprint of SVR2 kept it alive for quite
some time, although not in the mainstream. Kept bumping into these well into
the SVR4 days.
Many such dedicated or small footprint SVR2 installs are totally random as
to how much and which userland there is though...
Some were stripped to the bone with very simple userland commands and
others would have backported SVR3 or even SVR4 userland tools.
Of course this was also in the days when IP was just 'one of the protocols'
so many of these had all sorts of weird and wonderful network stacks
hacked onto them.
Bye, Arno.
1020
days inactive
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days old
17 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Angelo Papenhoff -
Arno Griffioen -
arnold＠skeeve.com -
Clem Cole -
Erik E. Fair -
Grant Taylor -
Henry Bent -
MOCHIDA Shuji -
Seth Morabito -
Warner Losh -
Will Senn