19 Jan
2023
19 Jan
'23
5:50 p.m.
From: Larry McVoy <lm(a)mcvoy.com>
At least 30 years ago I said "He's good
programmer, a good architect,
and a good manager. I've never seen that in one person before".
Corby? Although he was just down the hall from me, I never saw him operating
in any of those roles; maybe some of the old-time Unix people have some
insight. Saltzer is about off-scale in #2; probably good as a manager
(although I had a monumental blow-up with him in the hallway on the 5th
floor, but I was pretty close to unmanageable when I was young ;-); he took
over Athena when it was stumbling, and got it going. Dave Clark is high on
all three - he could manage me! :-)
Bob Taylor? PARC did some _incredibly_ important stuff in his time. Yes, I
know a lot of the credit goes to those under him (Butler Lampson, Alan Kay -
not sure if he was in Taylor's group, Boggs, Metcalfe, etc) but he had to
manage them all. Not sure what his technical role was, though.
Vint Cerf? Again, A1*** as a manager, but had some failings as a architect. I
think the biggest share of the blame for the decision to remove the variable
size addresses from TCP/IP3, and replace them with 32-bit addresses in
TCP/IPv4, goes to him. (Alas, I was down the hall, not in the room, that day;
I wasn't allowed in until the _next_ meeting. I like to think that if I'd been
there, I could/would have pointed out the 'obvious' superior alternative -
'only length 4 must be supported at this time'.)
Noel
PS: ISTR that about a month ago someone was asking for management papers
from that era (but I was too busy to reply); two good ones are:
- F. J. Corbat��, C. T. Clingen, "A Managerial View of the Multics System
Development"
https://multicians.org/managerial.html
- F. J. Corbat��, C. T. Clingen, and J. H. Saltzer, "Multics -- the first seven
years"
https://multicians.org/f7y.html
19 Jan
19 Jan
6 p.m.
I'd certainly list Bob Sproull for all three, from personal observation.
My guess is that Ivan Sutherland probably qualified back when he still
programmed ... I mean, after all, he invented the linked list in order to
implement his thesis program (Sketchpad) in about 1960.
=====
nygeek.net
mindthegapdialogs.com/home <https://www.mindthegapdialogs.com/home>
On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 12:50 PM Noel Chiappa <jnc(a)mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
wrote:
From: Larry
McVoy <lm(a)mcvoy.com>
At least 30 years ago I said "He's good
programmer, a good architect,
and a good manager. I've never seen that in one person before".
Corby? Although he was just down the hall from me, I never saw him
operating
in any of those roles; maybe some of the old-time Unix people have some
insight. Saltzer is about off-scale in #2; probably good as a manager
(although I had a monumental blow-up with him in the hallway on the 5th
floor, but I was pretty close to unmanageable when I was young ;-); he took
over Athena when it was stumbling, and got it going. Dave Clark is high on
all three - he could manage me! :-)
Bob Taylor? PARC did some _incredibly_ important stuff in his time. Yes, I
know a lot of the credit goes to those under him (Butler Lampson, Alan Kay
-
not sure if he was in Taylor's group, Boggs, Metcalfe, etc) but he had to
manage them all. Not sure what his technical role was, though.
Vint Cerf? Again, A1*** as a manager, but had some failings as a
architect. I
think the biggest share of the blame for the decision to remove the
variable
size addresses from TCP/IP3, and replace them with 32-bit addresses in
TCP/IPv4, goes to him. (Alas, I was down the hall, not in the room, that
day;
I wasn't allowed in until the _next_ meeting. I like to think that if I'd
been
there, I could/would have pointed out the 'obvious' superior alternative -
'only length 4 must be supported at this time'.)
Noel
PS: ISTR that about a month ago someone was asking for management papers
from that era (but I was too busy to reply); two good ones are:
- F. J. Corbat??, C. T. Clingen, "A Managerial View of the Multics
System Development"
https://multicians.org/managerial.html
- F. J. Corbat??, C. T. Clingen, and J. H. Saltzer, "Multics -- the
first seven years"
https://multicians.org/f7y.html
6:09 p.m.
Not trying to keep AIX in the discussion, but the 3 in 1 list should
include Glenn Henry. Glenn was primarily a manager when I worked for
him, but was an architect before then and is still a programmer -- see
the summary at
http://web.archive.org/web/20200105071617/http://www.ece.utexas.edu/events/…
and/or https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/102738382
Charlie
On 1/19/2023 12:00 PM, Marc Donner wrote:
I'd certainly list Bob Sproull for all three,
from personal observation.
My guess is that Ivan Sutherland probably qualified back when he still
programmed ... I mean, after all, he invented the linked list in order
to implement his thesis program (Sketchpad) in about 1960.
=====
nygeek.net <http://nygeek.net>
mindthegapdialogs.com/home <https://www.mindthegapdialogs.com/home>
On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 12:50 PM Noel Chiappa <jnc(a)mercury.lcs.mit.edu
<mailto:jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>> wrote:
--
voice: +1.512.784.7526 e-mail: sauer(a)technologists.com
fax: +1.512.346.5240 Web: https://technologists.com/sauer/
Facebook/Google/Twitter: CharlesHSauer
From: Larry McVoy <lm(a)mcvoy.com
<mailto:lm@mcvoy.com>>
At least 30 years ago I said "He's good
programmer, a good
architect,
and a good manager. I've never seen that in
one person before".
Corby? Although he was just down the hall from me, I never saw him
operating
in any of those roles; maybe some of the old-time Unix people have some
insight. Saltzer is about off-scale in #2; probably good as a manager
(although I had a monumental blow-up with him in the hallway on the 5th
floor, but I was pretty close to unmanageable when I was young ;-);
he took
over Athena when it was stumbling, and got it going. Dave Clark is
high on
all three - he could manage me! :-)
Bob Taylor? PARC did some _incredibly_ important stuff in his time.
Yes, I
know a lot of the credit goes to those under him (Butler Lampson,
Alan Kay -
not sure if he was in Taylor's group, Boggs, Metcalfe, etc) but he
had to
manage them all. Not sure what his technical role was, though.
Vint Cerf? Again, A1*** as a manager, but had some failings as a
architect. I
think the biggest share of the blame for the decision to remove the
variable
size addresses from TCP/IP3, and replace them with 32-bit addresses in
TCP/IPv4, goes to him. (Alas, I was down the hall, not in the room,
that day;
I wasn't allowed in until the _next_ meeting. I like to think that
if I'd been
there, I could/would have pointed out the 'obvious' superior
alternative -
'only length 4 must be supported at this time'.)
Noel
PS: ISTR that about a month ago someone was asking for management papers
from that era (but I was too busy to reply); two good ones are:
- F. J. Corbat??, C. T. Clingen, "A Managerial View of the
Multics System Development"
https://multicians.org/managerial.html
<https://multicians.org/managerial.html>
- F. J. Corbat??, C. T. Clingen, and J. H. Saltzer, "Multics --
the first seven years"
https://multicians.org/f7y.html <https://multicians.org/f7y.html>
20 Jan
20 Jan
3:47 a.m.
On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 1:01 PM Marc Donner <marc.donner(a)gmail.com> wrote:
My guess is that Ivan Sutherland probably qualified
back when he still
programmed ... I mean, after all, he invented the linked list in order to
implement his thesis program (Sketchpad) in about 1960.
1963, which makes it younger than Lisp (McCarthy 1960) and IPL (Newell,
Shaw, Simon 1957), the original list-processing languages.
4:54 p.m.
New subject: FYI: Apple Lisa [source Pascal code] goes “open source”
Pioneering Apple Lisa goes “open source” thanks to Computer History Museum
Lisa OS 3.1's 1984 source Pascal code now available under a non-commercial license.
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/01/pioneering-apple-lis…
CHM MAKES APPLE LISA SOURCE CODE AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC AS A PART OF ITS ART OF CODE
SERIES
https://computerhistory.org/press-releases/chm-makes-apple-lisa-source-code…
-r
5:07 p.m.
New subject: FYI: Apple Lisa [source Pascal code] goes “open source”
Nothing about the LISA OS or the subsequent MAC XL (extra large? extra
Lisas in inventory?) is remotely UNIXy.
------ Original Message ------
From "Rich Morin" <rdm(a)cfcl.com>
To "Tautological Eunuch Horticultural Scythians" <tuhs(a)tuhs.org>
Date 1/20/2023 11:54:07 AM
Subject [TUHS] FYI: Apple Lisa [source Pascal code] goes “open source”
Pioneering Apple Lisa goes “open source” thanks to
Computer History Museum
Lisa OS 3.1's 1984 source Pascal code now available under a non-commercial license.
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2023/01/pioneering-apple-lis…
CHM MAKES APPLE LISA SOURCE CODE AVAILABLE TO THE PUBLIC AS A PART OF ITS ART OF CODE
SERIES
https://computerhistory.org/press-releases/chm-makes-apple-lisa-source-code…
-r
19 Jan
19 Jan
9:12 p.m.
Bob Taylor? PARC did some _incredibly_ important stuff in his time. Yes, I
know a lot of the credit goes to those under him (Butler Lampson, Alan Kay -
not sure if he was in Taylor's group, Boggs, Metcalfe, etc) but he had to
manage them all. Not sure what his technical role was, though.
Taylor was an extraordinary manager, but neither a programmer nor architect.
I’d certainly add Vic Vyssotsky as manager and technologist from my own experience
and labs folklore, but I don’t know about programming or architecture.
-Larry
455
days inactive
456
days old
6 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Charles H Sauer (he/him) -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu -
John Cowan -
Lawrence Stewart -
Marc Donner -
Rich Morin -
Ron Natalie