20 Mar
2017
20 Mar
'17
10:17 p.m.
From: Steffen Nurpmeso
This "We owe it all to the Hippies"
Well, yes and no. Read "Hackers". There wasn't a tremendous overlap
between
the set of 'nerds' (specifically, computer nerds) and 'hippies',
especially in
the early days. Not that the two groups were ideologically opposed, or
incompatible, or anything like that. Just totally different.
Later on, of course, there were quite a few hackers who were also 'hippies',
to some greater or lesser degree - more from hackers taking on the hippie
vibe, than the other way around, I reckon. (I think that to be a true computer
nerd, you have to start down that road pretty early on, and with a pretty
severe commitment - so I don't think a _lot_ of hippied turned into hackers.
Although I guess the same thing, about starting early, is true of really
serious musicians.)
"The real legacy of the 60s generation is the
Computer Revolution"
Well, there is something to that (and I think others have made this
observation). The hippie mentality had a lot of influence on everyone in that
generation - including the computer nerds/hackers. Now, the hackers may have
had a larger, impact, long-term, than the hippies did - but in some sense a
lot of hippie ideals are reflected in the stuff a lot of hackers built:
today's computer revolution can be seen as hippie idealism filtered through
computer nerds...
But remember things like this, from the dust-jacket of the biography of
Prof. Licklider:
"More than a decade will pass before personal computers emerge from the
garages of Silicon Valley, and a full thirty years before the Internet
explosion of the 1990s. The word computer still has an ominous tone,
conjuring up the image of a huge, intimidating device hidden away in an
over-lit, air-conditioned basement, relentlessly processing punch cards for
some large institution: _them_. Yet, sitting in a nondescript office in
McNamara's Pentagon, a quiet ... civilian is already planning the revolution
that will change forever the way computers are perceived. Somehow, the
occupant of that office ... has seen a future in which computers will empower
individuals, instead of forcing them into rigid conformity. He is almost
alone in his conviction that computers can become not just super-fast
calculating machines, but joyful machines: tools that will serve as new media
of expression, inspirations to creativity, and gateways to a vast world of
online information.
Now, technically Lick wasn't a hippie (he was, after all, 40 years old in
1965), and he sure didn't have a lot of hippie-like attributes - but he was,
in some ways, an ideological close relative of some hippies.
Noel
21 Mar
21 Mar
12:19 p.m.
New subject: Were all of you.. Hippies?
jnc(a)mercury.lcs.mit.edu (Noel Chiappa) wrote:
|> From: Steffen Nurpmeso
|
|> This "We owe it all to the Hippies"
|
|Well, yes and no. Read "Hackers". There wasn't a tremendous overlap
between
So you went through this 30 years ago already. I see, maybe.
From Steven Levy?! Have it now, but it could be i won't be able
to read it all, it seems to have this language of the 80s, wadded
shoulders and neon colours, that decade nothing but the decay of
the 70s. And i have grown up with "Wargames", which was earlier.
|But remember things like this, from the dust-jacket of the biography of
|Prof. Licklider:
Hmm, i have the feeling that "Biographies" tend more and more into
fictional direction. A few decades back (say, at the end of the
90s i think it was) we in Germany had a "Sow of the Week" ("Die
Sau durch's Dorf treiben", "Compelling the Sow through the
Village", i _think_ based on Prussian Military tradition of
a fustigation for soldiers who need to pass a lane of other
soldiers with sticks) caused by a professor who proclaimed that
entire centuries of history (anno domini) did not exist, were
plain "fake news". Just this weekend there was a book review on
Julian Barnes "The Noise of Time", referring to Dmitri
Shostakovich, it seems to be thrilling. I haven't read it on my
own, however.
But anyway all this feels like a decline compared to that mankind
was based on either purely oral or also written tradition for so
many thousand years. The Bushmen and Aborigine put full trust in
oral tradition, i think we put trust in the hieroglyphs of the
Egyptians. Noone will put trust in us, and that only if
bitsavers.org will survive.
...
| that will change forever the way computers are perceived. Somehow, the
| occupant of that office ... has seen a future in which computers will \
| empower
| individuals, instead of forcing them into rigid conformity. He is almost
| alone in his conviction that computers can become not just super-fast
| calculating machines, but joyful machines: tools that will serve as \
| new media
| of expression, inspirations to creativity, and gateways to a vast world of
| online information.
|
|Now, technically Lick wasn't a hippie (he was, after all, 40 years old in
|1965), and he sure didn't have a lot of hippie-like attributes - but \
|he was,
|in some ways, an ideological close relative of some hippies.
It seems to me that many attributes of the hippie movement can at
least in parts be found in the international squad of scientists.
I think in science some core values of "the light" make a living,
for example it doesn't really matter where you come from, what
counts is your intellectual output. Mistakes "don't matter" as
long as you can prove that it was based on some real thoughts.
Of course that is "the light" only from the intellectual side, not
the spiritual or emotional, therefore not being holistical, which
was, to me, the Hippies, though as always, it depends on the
end-user. Having watched films of sessions with Leary, and seeing
a young man on trip with his sheepdog on his crossed legs,
stroking her (the dog), and obviously having the realization that
this person (the dog) would die for him (the young man) as
necessary, is an example of the other side.
--steffen
12:48 p.m.
New subject: Were all of you.. Hippies?
Later on, of course, there were quite a few hackers
who were also 'hippies',
to some greater or lesser degree - more from hackers taking on the hippie
vibe, than the other way around, I reckon.
I think that's pretty true. Look at RMS. He still looks like a hippie, and his
ideals seem pretty influenced by what was going on then.
I was a child during the 60s and 70s, but I remember a lot of what went
on from TV, newspapers etc. I was never a hippie myself. :-)
My $0.02,
Arnold
1:29 p.m.
New subject: Were all of you.. Hippies?
Speaking of Licklider, here is an amazingly prophetic video from 1972
https://youtu.be/GjZ7ktIlSM0
On March 21, 2017 6:17:59 AM GMT+08:00, Noel Chiappa <jnc(a)mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
wrote:
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
From: Steffen
Nurpmeso
This "We owe it all to the Hippies"
Well, yes and no. Read "Hackers". There wasn't a tremendous overlap
between
the set of 'nerds' (specifically, computer nerds) and 'hippies',
especially in
the early days. Not that the two groups were ideologically opposed, or
incompatible, or anything like that. Just totally different.
Later on, of course, there were quite a few hackers who were also
'hippies',
to some greater or lesser degree - more from hackers taking on the
hippie
vibe, than the other way around, I reckon. (I think that to be a true
computer
nerd, you have to start down that road pretty early on, and with a
pretty
severe commitment - so I don't think a _lot_ of hippied turned into
hackers.
Although I guess the same thing, about starting early, is true of
really
serious musicians.)
"The real legacy of the 60s generation is
the Computer Revolution"
Well, there is something to that (and I think others have made this
observation). The hippie mentality had a lot of influence on everyone
in that
generation - including the computer nerds/hackers. Now, the hackers may
have
had a larger, impact, long-term, than the hippies did - but in some
sense a
lot of hippie ideals are reflected in the stuff a lot of hackers built:
today's computer revolution can be seen as hippie idealism filtered
through
computer nerds...
But remember things like this, from the dust-jacket of the biography of
Prof. Licklider:
"More than a decade will pass before personal computers emerge from the
garages of Silicon Valley, and a full thirty years before the Internet
explosion of the 1990s. The word computer still has an ominous tone,
conjuring up the image of a huge, intimidating device hidden away in an
over-lit, air-conditioned basement, relentlessly processing punch cards
for
some large institution: _them_. Yet, sitting in a nondescript office in
McNamara's Pentagon, a quiet ... civilian is already planning the
revolution
that will change forever the way computers are perceived. Somehow, the
occupant of that office ... has seen a future in which computers will
empower
individuals, instead of forcing them into rigid conformity. He is
almost
alone in his conviction that computers can become not just super-fast
calculating machines, but joyful machines: tools that will serve as new
media
of expression, inspirations to creativity, and gateways to a vast world
of
online information.
Now, technically Lick wasn't a hippie (he was, after all, 40 years old
in
1965), and he sure didn't have a lot of hippie-like attributes - but he
was,
in some ways, an ideological close relative of some hippies.
Noel
23 Mar
23 Mar
10:13 a.m.
New subject: Were all of you.. Hippies?
Jason Stevens <jsteve(a)superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote:
|Speaking of Licklider, here is an amazingly prophetic video from 1972
|
|[1]https://youtu.be/GjZ7ktIlSM0[/1]
Many thanks for this link, very interesting, i soaked it all in!
--steffen
12:08 p.m.
New subject: Were all of you.. Hippies?
There is some IMP stuff on SIMH, but I'll be damned if any of it makes sense.
Apparently it "runs", although it really makes no sense....
There is a test script to push a packet, so I suppose one could feed the imp via debug,
although it's not quite right
On March 23, 2017 6:13:58 PM GMT+08:00, Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen(a)sdaoden.eu>
wrote:
Jason Stevens <jsteve(a)superglobalmegacorp.com>
wrote:
|Speaking of Licklider, here is an amazingly prophetic video from 1972
|
|[1]https://youtu.be/GjZ7ktIlSM0[/1]
Many thanks for this link, very interesting, i soaked it all in!
--steffen
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
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arnold＠skeeve.com -
Jason Stevens -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu -
Steffen Nurpmeso