Hi, Sorry if this is spam but in a flash of "well, duh!" insight I realized this is the right place. We're looking for systems people and we really like minimalists. What I tell people when I hire them is "If it's in the 1986 SVID or if it is sockets or mmap, you can use it. Anything else is off limits". And our code works everywhere, we can bring up a new platform in about an hour and our source base is not trivial. We're all C and bourne shell (ok, yeah, some tcl/tk for guis). We're hacking bwk's awk source base (he sent me ~bwk/awk with all the source, tests, the source to the book in english and french, gotta love that) so we can use it to be the front end to our simple database (if you think about it an SQL select statement looks one heck of a lot like an awk program). It's pretty cool, we're making a scripting language for systems people that is small. Kind of what perl would have been if it had been part of V7. Oh, and the language is going to be open source if that's important to you. We are looking for a few solid programmers. We pay well, we're profitable, no debt, no outside investors, stable revenue stream, and we're growing. Our growth is limited by our ability to hire which in turn is limited by my taste. Which is very much in line with this community, small is good, simple is good, complex sucks. We live and die by Brian's comment that debugging is harder than coding so if you were clever when you were coding you are by definition not smart enough to debug the code. What we have to offer is a stable place to work, no crap from idiot managers or money grubbing VC's. What we are working is cutting edge, ping me for information, it's more than what is publicly known. We're in the Bay Area and we want you to be too. If it's a fit we'll pay to relocate you. Please let me know if you are interested. And if you aren't but you know someone who is a good fit we'll cough up a $10K referral fee provided that they last at least one year here. Thanks, -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com