11 Oct
2000
11 Oct
'00
2:29 p.m.
It is going to take some creative symlink and mount
point work to
fit 2.11 into 20MB disks - the system really expects to have ~80MB
at least for /usr. An RD54 at 159MB is more than enough but a RD53
paired with a couple RD32/3 would be adequate.
Steven Schultz
sms(a)to.gd-es.com
Steven.... I have been thinking of trying to find a PDP-11 of some sort
(like hunting for needles in a hay stack in this part of the woods, but
maybe something will surface). Anyway... for the sake of discussion,
and general dumpster diving knowledge....
1. What mfm hard drives from the non-DEC world could be adapted to
work on a PDP-11?
2. Can any scsi drives be used (RZ-23's or that kind of thing?).
I often run across lots of smaller DEC scsi drives in MooU surplus,
as well as assorted MFM drives from retired AT crates. IF I can
find out what is worth saving to use, that would be great info
to have handy, whilst dumpster diving. At a buck or two a chassis,
it is worth saving a few drives, provided I know what to save.
I will assume the target OS is 2.11BSD or 2.9BSD, since those seem
to handle the greatest assortment of hardware types.
Can any of these non-DEC drives be adapted to MVII use?
Can any of the early MFM or ESDI Sun drives be used?
I vaguely remember some notes on some of this somewhere. Any urls
or pointers thereto would be appreciated.
Thanks
Bob Keys
rdkeys(a)unity.ncsu.edu
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12 Oct
12 Oct
2:33 a.m.
New subject: [pups] What hard drives to look for for PDP-11 use?
1. What mfm hard drives from the non-DEC world could be adapted to
work on a PDP-11?
Many, any that are similar to ST225(RD31) and ST251(RD32) or have the same
CHS as RD52 (Quantum D540), MIcropolus 1325(rd53) or Maxtor2190(rd54).
Those disks were DEC baged but not DEC made and are findable. there are
many similar out there as well.
2. Can any scsi drives be used (RZ-23's or that
kind of thing?).
Yes if you have a SCSI card that is MSCP compatable. THese are scarce
as many are still in service or quickly picked up.
I often run across lots of smaller DEC scsi drives in
MooU surplus,
as well as assorted MFM drives from retired AT crates. IF I can
find out what is worth saving to use, that would be great info
to have handy, whilst dumpster diving. At a buck or two a chassis,
it is worth saving a few drives, provided I know what to save.
There is a good chance they are useable depending on the controller
in your DEC hardware.
I will assume the target OS is 2.11BSD or 2.9BSD,
since those seem
to handle the greatest assortment of hardware types.
Someone else will confirm but 2.11 handles MSCP so that means RQDX
controllers for MFM or many of the SCSI controlers that speak MSCP.
Can any of these non-DEC drives be adapted to MVII
use?
See above list.
Can any of the early MFM or ESDI Sun drives be used?
Yes, with the right controller, some caveats.
Hopefully you will get more detailes from others.
Allison
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From "Steven M. Schultz"
<sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Thu Oct 12 13:07:14 2000
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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 20:07:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <200010120307.UAA26966(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: [pups] What hard drives to look for for PDP-11 use?
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Precedence: bulk
Hi Bob -
From: rdkeys(a)unity.ncsu.edu
Steven.... I have been thinking of trying to find a PDP-11 of some sort
(like hunting for needles in a hay stack in this part of the woods, but
Interesting. I wouldn't have thought an 11/73 or similar would
be too hard to find.
1. What mfm hard drives from the non-DEC world could
be adapted to
work on a PDP-11?
Tim has already jumped in with a pointer or two.
2. Can any scsi drives be used (RZ-23's or that
kind of thing?).
Oh yes! But you need to have a Qbus SCSI<->MSCP controller. They
are easy to _find_ but quite *expensive*. Not as expensive as
they were when I shelled out US$1500 for a new Emulex UC08 (and that
with a good discount - the sales person was sympathetic to my
explanation this was for a 'hobby'). Used CMD, Emulex or Dilog
controllers will run around $500-900.
Once you have gotten over the sticker/exchequer shock the upside
is that you can use about many SCSI disk or tape drives that other
folks are tossing otu because they're too small. The older ~300MB
and 1GB disks that are not useful on modern systems are great in
a PDP-11 environment. Uh, don't bother putting a 73GB Cheetah
on an 11 ;)
One place that lists CMD and Emulex controllers is:
http://www.ficompinc.com
I will assume the target OS is 2.11BSD or 2.9BSD,
since those seem
to handle the greatest assortment of hardware types.
>
Can any of these non-DEC drives be adapted to MVII
use?
At one time I had a uVax-II with a Dilog DQ696 (I think that was
the model number) that had a couple ESDI drives on it - a ~300MB
Miniscribe disk and a couple Maxtor RD53 sized drives.
Can any of the early MFM or ESDI Sun drives be used?
Definitely. Emulex QD33 and QD35 adaptors (in addition to the
Dilog DQ696) ring a bell as far as non-SCSI disks go.
Steven Schultz
sms(a)moe.2bsd.com
6:23 p.m.
New subject: [pups] What hard drives to look for for PDP-11 use?
1. What mfm
hard drives from the non-DEC world could be adapted to
work on a PDP-11?
Many, any that are similar to ST225(RD31) and ST251(RD32) or have the same
CHS as RD52 (Quantum D540), MIcropolus 1325(rd53) or Maxtor2190(rd54).
Those disks were DEC baged but not DEC made and are findable. there are
many similar out there as well. 
11:44 p.m.
New subject: [pups] What hard drives to look for for PDP-11 use?
On 12 Oct, rdkeys(a)unity.ncsu.edu wrote:
On the ESDI drives, has anyone tried the IBM things
from Model 60
and Model 80 machines?
I am using Micropolis 1654-7 (150MB), 1664-7 (320MB) and
Maxtor XT4380
(350MB) ESDI drives from PCs and Apollo Domain DN3X00 Machines with a
Dilog DQ686 QBus MSCP controller. Last week I salvaged a XT4780 (~700MB)
but did not have the time to test it. I had no problems using this
disks. After reformating them with the controller on board diag they
worked well in my MicroVAX II. I expect no problems with it when I
convert the VAX to a PDP11/23.
The problem with some IBM PS/2 ESDI drives is the proprietary
connector, that combinates signal and power lines in one connector.
I don't know if they are usable with a normal ESDI controller. On the
other hand: In my PS/2 80 is the same Maxtor XT4380 like the one from
Apollo I am using with the Dilog.
--
tschüß,
Jochen
Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/
8596
days inactive
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3 comments
3 participants
participants (3)
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allisonp＠world.std.com -
jkunz＠unixag-kl.fh-kl.de -
rdkeys＠unity.ncsu.edu