5 Dec
2017
5 Dec
'17
10:21 p.m.
All, it's time to nudge the conversation away from debugging 2017 OOM issues
and the pre-UNIX history of the Arpanet.
We've been able to recover quite a deal of UNIX artifacts in the past two
decades, but what artifacts (in your opinion) are still out there that
we should try and unearth? Remember that the 50th anniversary is coming up
in 2019.
Here's my list:
- more PDP-7 source code: the shell, the rest of the utilities
- more 1st Edition source code: the rest of the utilities
- ditto the missing bits of 3rd, 4th and 5th Editions
- the Phil Foglio artwork that became a Usenix t-shirt (Armando, any ideas?)
- more details on who was Ted Bashkow, and the story behind his (+ others?)
analysis of the 1st Edition kernel at
http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/Dennis_v1/PreliminaryUni…
- a firm date on the day that Ken added pipes to the kernel :)
What else should be we looking for? What physical artifacts (drawings,
artwork etc.) have we missed that should be sought after?
Cheers, Warren
5 Dec
5 Dec
10:38 p.m.
I would add the B and NB (New B) compilers and applications. We have
the man pages and some tantalizing fragments of the run-time but
nothing else including not a single non-trivial application! (that I
am aware of)
On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 5:21 PM, Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org> wrote:
All, it's time to nudge the conversation away
from debugging 2017 OOM issues
and the pre-UNIX history of the Arpanet.
We've been able to recover quite a deal of UNIX artifacts in the past two
decades, but what artifacts (in your opinion) are still out there that
we should try and unearth? Remember that the 50th anniversary is coming up
in 2019.
Here's my list:
- more PDP-7 source code: the shell, the rest of the utilities
- more 1st Edition source code: the rest of the utilities
- ditto the missing bits of 3rd, 4th and 5th Editions
- the Phil Foglio artwork that became a Usenix t-shirt (Armando, any ideas?)
- more details on who was Ted Bashkow, and the story behind his (+ others?)
analysis of the 1st Edition kernel at
http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/Dennis_v1/PreliminaryUni…
- a firm date on the day that Ken added pipes to the kernel :)
What else should be we looking for? What physical artifacts (drawings,
artwork etc.) have we missed that should be sought after?
Cheers, Warren
10:55 p.m.
On 06/12/17, Warren Toomey wrote:
All, it's time to nudge the conversation away
from debugging 2017 OOM issues
and the pre-UNIX history of the Arpanet.
We've been able to recover quite a deal of UNIX artifacts in the past two
decades, but what artifacts (in your opinion) are still out there that
we should try and unearth? Remember that the 50th anniversary is coming up
in 2019.
Here's my list:
- more PDP-7 source code: the shell, the rest of the utilities
- more 1st Edition source code: the rest of the utilities
- ditto the missing bits of 3rd, 4th and 5th Editions
- the Phil Foglio artwork that became a Usenix t-shirt (Armando, any ideas?)
- more details on who was Ted Bashkow, and the story behind his (+ others?)
analysis of the 1st Edition kernel at
http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/Dennis_v1/PreliminaryUni…
- a firm date on the day that Ken added pipes to the kernel :)
What else should be we looking for? What physical artifacts (drawings,
artwork etc.) have we missed that should be sought after?
Cheers, Warren
(Replied off list accidentally, sorry Warren)
I totally agree that having more of V2-V4 would be great.
Recently, I've become interested in the UNIX development at AT&T.
There is SysIII for PDP-11 and VAX and both work in simh.
With SysVR1 I only found the PDP-11 version, would be cool to have the
VAX version too. But turning to older stuff...there is not much info
about the UNICES that were to become SysIII. I'm talking PWB (there is
PWB/1.0 in the archive that I will try to get running soon, but I
understand there were more versions), CB UNIX (only scans of it it
seems) and the elusive UNIX/TS in various versions.
I'm aware that these were not released under the ancient UNIX license,
however the web source view on TUHS has the source code for SysIII and
SysV and most of it can be found on archive.org as well, so the fact
that they're not part of the public TUHS archive is a bit weird.
BTW, I'm currently putting together installation instructions for
various
old UNICES on http://a.papnet.eu/UNIX/. And I also ported aiju's blit
emulator to Unix recently (ran on plan 9 originally):
https://github.com/aap/blit So have fun running v8 with this.
aap
11:06 p.m.
Venix/86 and Venix/86R might be interesting... I have impure versions of
both...
Warner
On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Angelo Papenhoff <aap(a)papnet.eu> wrote:
On 06/12/17, Warren Toomey wrote:
All, it's time to nudge the conversation
away from debugging 2017 OOM
issues
and the pre-UNIX history of the Arpanet.
We've been able to recover quite a deal of UNIX artifacts in the past two
decades, but what artifacts (in your opinion) are still out there that
we should try and unearth? Remember that the 50th anniversary is coming
up
in 2019.
Here's my list:
- more PDP-7 source code: the shell, the rest of the utilities
- more 1st Edition source code: the rest of the utilities
- ditto the missing bits of 3rd, 4th and 5th Editions
- the Phil Foglio artwork that became a Usenix t-shirt (Armando, any
ideas?)
- more details on who was Ted Bashkow, and the
story behind his (+
others?)
analysis of the 1st Edition kernel at
http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/
Distributions/Research/Dennis_v1/PreliminaryUnixImplementationD
ocument_Jun72.pdf
- a firm date on the day that Ken added pipes to
the kernel :)
What else should be we looking for? What physical artifacts (drawings,
artwork etc.) have we missed that should be sought after?
Cheers, Warren
(Replied off list accidentally, sorry Warren)
I totally agree that having more of V2-V4 would be great.
Recently, I've become interested in the UNIX development at AT&T.
There is SysIII for PDP-11 and VAX and both work in simh.
With SysVR1 I only found the PDP-11 version, would be cool to have the
VAX version too. But turning to older stuff...there is not much info
about the UNICES that were to become SysIII. I'm talking PWB (there is
PWB/1.0 in the archive that I will try to get running soon, but I
understand there were more versions), CB UNIX (only scans of it it
seems) and the elusive UNIX/TS in various versions.
I'm aware that these were not released under the ancient UNIX license,
however the web source view on TUHS has the source code for SysIII and
SysV and most of it can be found on archive.org as well, so the fact
that they're not part of the public TUHS archive is a bit weird.
BTW, I'm currently putting together installation instructions for
various
old UNICES on http://a.papnet.eu/UNIX/. And I also ported aiju's blit
emulator to Unix recently (ran on plan 9 originally):
https://github.com/aap/blit So have fun running v8 with this.
aap
11:03 p.m.
Is the source (and/or hardware description) for Belle available anywhere?
I know that the box itself is at the Smithsonian.
--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Those who don't understand security will
suffer."
6 Dec
6 Dec
midnight
I am also interested in the early development of networked GUI's that
led to the X Window System. According to Wikipedia there was a W
Window System that predated X. Early research on networked GUI's was
done on the V Operating System which included a Virtual Graphics
Terminal Service (VGTS) providing a modular window system for local
and remote clients (which led to W, which led to X.)
I suppose they are not on the main-line of UNIX artifacts, but they
definitely influenced the modern UNIX experience (the workstation era
onward to the present.)
None of my Google searching has yielded any scrap of those early efforts.
12:08 a.m.
On 12/05/2017 05:00 PM, Robert Swierczek wrote:
I am also interested in the early development of
networked GUI's that
led to the X Window System.
+1 for information on W.
I suppose they are not on the main-line of UNIX
artifacts, but they
definitely influenced the modern UNIX experience (the workstation era
onward to the present.)
If such is appropriate.
--
Grant. . . .
unix || die
3:23 p.m.
On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 7:00 PM, Robert Swierczek <rmswierczek(a)gmail.com>
wrote:
I am also interested in the early development of
networked GUI's that
led to the X Window System. According to Wikipedia there was a W
Window System that predated X.
W which was done at Stanford and is definitely related to (direct parent
of) X Windows. Cheriton of course is the place to start, although I've
lost track of him. He's in the valley somewhere, he made billions funding
Google ;-)
V Kernel and the Stanford University Network (SUN) terminals were all
developed around the same time as W.
FWIW: Gettys & Schiefler might have of the W sources squirreled away - as
they started with them at MIT; but rejected it as the base for a set of
reasons which I forget now; but did take a number of the ideas. Jim showed
me a demo of early X and W side-by-side a long time ago. IIRC the basic
site protocol and the approach where the 'server' was on the local system
and the 'client' was remote came from W. [I'll try to ask Gettys what he
has off-line].
Clem
2334
days inactive
2335
days old
8 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Angelo Papenhoff -
arnold＠skeeve.com -
Clem Cole -
Dave Horsfall -
Grant Taylor -
Robert Swierczek -
Warner Losh -
Warren Toomey