11 May
2018
11 May
'18
10:21 p.m.
Way back on this day in 1941, Conrad Zuse unveiled the Z3; it was the
first programmable automatic computer as we know it (Colossus 1 was not
general-purpose). The last news I heard about the Z3 was that she was
destroyed in an air-raid...
This pretty much started computing, as we know it.
-- Dave
12 May
12 May
3:04 p.m.
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 6:21 PM, Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
Way back on this day in 1941, Conrad Zuse unveiled the
Z3; it was the
first programmable automatic computer as we know it (Colossus 1 was not
general-purpose). The last news I heard about the Z3 was that she was
destroyed in an air-raid...
This pretty much started computing, as we know it.
Again be careful -- we don't want to go down that rat hole. There has
been always been an argument since it (as well as Atanasoff and Aiken's
machines all) lacks a conditional branch. Although, I do believe some
one the UK proved the Z3 to be Turing complete; but the argument will
always be there.
What I tell people is that Babbage theorized the computational device and
Lady Ada extended the theorized to general programmability (to play music
I believe) but it was never built and she and Babbage argued a bit about
it. The Loom folks demonstrated that the idea programmability was
possible. Zuse put the two idea together and reduce it practice.
But .. until we also include a conditional branch the ability to do self
modify code we don't really have the machine with think of as the automatic
programmable computer.
Check out:
http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/rojas/1993/Who_invented_the_computer.pdf its a
fun read.
There is a nice table in it:
Machine Memory & CPU Separated Conditional Branching
Soft or Hard Programming Support Self Modify Indirect
Addressing
Babbage yes
yes soft
proposed no
Zuse yes
no soft
no no
Atanasoff yes
no hard
no no
Aiken Mark1 no
no soft
no no
ENIAC no
partial hard
no no
Manchester yes
yes soft
yes no
13 May
13 May
6:52 a.m.
On Saturday, 12 May 2018 at 11:04:26 -0400, Clem Cole wrote:
On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 6:21 PM, Dave Horsfall
<dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
That's an interesting document, but it refers to the Z1, not the Z3.
But Wikipedia confirms that the Z3 also didn't have conditional
instructions.
Conditional branch is only one way to do that, of course. The PDP-8,
for example, didn't have one, just (like many machines of the day)
conditional skip instructions.
Greg
--
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Way back on this day in 1941, Conrad Zuse
unveiled the Z3; it was the
first programmable automatic computer as we know it (Colossus 1 was not
general-purpose). The last news I heard about the Z3 was that she was
destroyed in an air-raid...
This pretty much started computing, as we know it.
But .. until we also include a conditional branch the ability to do
self modify code we don't really have the machine with think of as
the automatic programmable computer.
Check out:
http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/rojas/1993/Who_invented_the_computer.pdf its a
fun read.
9:07 p.m.
Yes of course. I used to program the 8 so I remember. But I (sloppily) think of them the
same way although you are correct they are different in implementation. But my key point
is until conditional instructions that change the path come along we are not to the
general purpose computing platform.
Their is a open question about the need to support self modifying code too. I personally
don’t think of that as important as the need for conditional instructions which I do think
need to be there before you can really call it a computer. But that’s my opinion and
others clearly believe neither are needed.
Clem
Sent from my PDP-7 Running UNIX V0 expect things to be almost but not quite.
On May 13, 2018, at 2:52 AM, Greg 'groggy'
Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> wrote:
On Saturday, 12 May 2018 at 11:04:26 -0400, Clem
Cole wrote:
That's an interesting document, but it refers to the Z1, not the Z3.
But Wikipedia confirms that the Z3 also didn't have conditional
instructions.
Conditional branch is only one way to do that, of course. The PDP-8,
for example, didn't have one, just (like many machines of the day)
conditional skip instructions.
Greg
--
Sent from my desktop computer.
Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program
reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 6:21 PM, Dave Horsfall
<dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
Way back on this day in 1941, Conrad Zuse unveiled the Z3; it was the
first programmable automatic computer as we know it (Colossus 1 was not
general-purpose). The last news I heard about the Z3 was that she was
destroyed in an air-raid...
This pretty much started computing, as we know it.
But .. until we also include a conditional branch the ability to do
self modify code we don't really have the machine with think of as
the automatic programmable computer.
Check out:
http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/rojas/1993/Who_invented_the_computer.pdf its a
fun read.
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Clem cole
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Greg 'groggy' Lehey