New subject: UNIX for PDP-11: moving on to media

13 Sep 1997

<For my 11/34A with 2 RL01 I made with an emulator a bootable V7-RL01-diskim
<I downloaded it under RT-11 with KSERVE from John Wilson (dunno where I
<ftped it) over a serial line onto the second disk. It took some hours,
<but it worked.

How did you write it to the RL01 and what would it take to write it to rl02
assuming rt/kserve.  Did you use guarenteed no bad block media?

Allison

Received: (from major@localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA06695
	for pups-liszt; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 05:02:32 +1000 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to
owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
...
 From Johnny Billquist  &lt;bqt(a)minsk.docs.uu.se&gt; Sun
Sep 14 04:01:55 1997 Received: from Veda.DoCS.UU.SE (root(a)Veda.DoCS.UU.SE
[130.238.11.24])
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA06690
	for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;au>; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 05:02:26 +1000 (EST)
Received: from Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE [130.238.9.30]) by Veda.DoCS.UU.SE
(8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA29097; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:01:58 +0200
Received: by Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/630, SunOS 4.1.2)
 with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA00514; Sat, 13 Sep 97 21:01:57 +0200
From: Johnny Billquist  &lt;bqt(a)minsk.docs.uu.se&gt;
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 97 21:01:55 +0300 (MET DST)
Reply-To: bqt(a)minsk.docs.uu.se
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Cc: pnt103(a)ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk,
        pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Subject: Re: Old PDP-11 UNIX Paper Docs?
In-Reply-To: Your message of Fri, 12 Sep 1997 09:13:31 +1000 (EST)
Message-Id: &lt;CMM.0.90.0.874177315.bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE&gt;
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk

...
 In article by pnt103(a)ugrad.cs.york.ac.uk:
  Warren wrote:
  I've got some AUUG newsletters ... One of
them mentions
 a `Heriot-Watt stripped down 7th Edition',  
 If this is the version I have, which not only came from HWU, but is
 running on one of their old machines, it's fairly standard.  It was
 build for a 'small machine', meaning one without separate I&D space,
 such as an 11/34 (mine's on an 11/23 with 128KW and RL02s).  There
 are some extra drivers to support RX02s and stuff, but I think these
 are just well-known additions from sources such as Boston.  There's a
 makefile to configure and build for a small machine.

 It's missing some of the larger pieces of software, such as troff (nroff
 is there, and the troff source AFAIR) and Fortran, and the tty driver is 
 modified (bigger!), but most other things seem to be 'normal'.  

 I have the source on 800bpi magtape (pity my drive is only 1600bpi) and
 also most of it on RL02, though the RL02s are a bit disorganised.

 Pete 
Anybody in the UK able to read Pete's tape? Pete, can you kermit the files
off those RL02s? 
If the need is large enough, I can roll out a TU77 and connect it to Magica
to read the stuff. That means Sweden, though...

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
CS student at Uppsala University  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)minsk.docs.uu.se       ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

Received: (from major@localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA06768
	for pups-liszt; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 05:10:34 +1000 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to
owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
...
 From Johnny Billquist  &lt;bqt(a)minsk.docs.uu.se&gt; Sun
Sep 14 04:09:43 1997 Received: from Veda.DoCS.UU.SE (root(a)Veda.DoCS.UU.SE
[130.238.11.24])
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA06761
	for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;au>; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 05:10:20 +1000 (EST)
Received: from Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE [130.238.9.30]) by Veda.DoCS.UU.SE
(8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA29118; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:09:44 +0200
Received: by Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/630, SunOS 4.1.2)
 with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA00629; Sat, 13 Sep 97 21:09:44 +0200
From: Johnny Billquist  &lt;bqt(a)minsk.docs.uu.se&gt;
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 97 21:09:43 +0300 (MET DST)
Reply-To: bqt(a)minsk.docs.uu.se
To: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Bootstrap Idea
In-Reply-To: Your message of Thu, 11 Sep 1997 22:43:28 -0400
Message-Id: &lt;CMM.0.90.0.874177783.bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE&gt;
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk

...
 Not true.  They all did as bad blocks have been a fact
of life for all 
computers since day one.  Some of the ealy unixes used crude methods
from a perfomance standoint but, the bad block replacement was there. 
Well, not day one, but that come pretty early. Quality of the magnetic
media wasn't really that good back then, so you usually *had* to
expect a few bad spots on any disk.

On PDP-11's, I would supect that Unix went with DEC's BAD144 standard
pretty fast. (When did that standard come, btw?)

...
 Do read LIONS commentary.  I was able to get a copy
from the local library
here in eastern MA (USA) along with several books on BSD design.  Unix was 
really ahead of the pack on many things.  
Not to be a pain in the ass or so, but in what ways was Unix ahead of
anything?

Unix was just a small hack inspired by Multics, and looking at contemporary
operating systems, I'd say there were some that were way ahead of Unix (and
still are...)

Operating systems in the last twenty years have really retro-developed. :-)

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
CS student at Uppsala University  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)minsk.docs.uu.se       ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

Received: (from major@localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id FAA06799
	for pups-liszt; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 05:23:01 +1000 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to
owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f
...
 From Johnny Billquist  &lt;bqt(a)minsk.docs.uu.se&gt; Sun
Sep 14 04:22:21 1997 Received: from Veda.DoCS.UU.SE (Veda.DoCS.UU.SE
[130.238.11.24])
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id FAA06794
	for &lt;pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au&gt;au>; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 05:22:56 +1000 (EST)
Received: from Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE [130.238.9.30]) by Veda.DoCS.UU.SE
(8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA29143; Sat, 13 Sep 1997 21:22:21 +0200
Received: by Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE (Sun-4/630, SunOS 4.1.2)
 with sendmail 5.61-bind 1.5+ida/ICU/DoCS id AA01024; Sat, 13 Sep 97 21:22:21 +0200
From: Johnny Billquist  &lt;bqt(a)minsk.docs.uu.se&gt;
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 97 21:22:21 +0300 (MET DST)
Reply-To: bqt(a)minsk.docs.uu.se
To: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: UNIX for PDP-11: moving on to media
In-Reply-To: Your message of Sat, 13 Sep 1997 13:26:17 -0400
Message-Id: &lt;CMM.0.90.0.874178541.bqt(a)Minsk.DoCS.UU.SE&gt;
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Precedence: bulk

...
 <For my 11/34A with 2 RL01 I made with an emulator a
bootable V7-RL01-diskim
<I downloaded it under RT-11 with KSERVE from John Wilson (dunno where I
<ftped it) over a serial line onto the second disk. It took some hours,
<but it worked.

How did you write it to the RL01 and what would it take to write it to rl02
assuming rt/kserve.  Did you use guarenteed no bad block media? 
Most RL02 are pretty good. Usually they don't have any bad spots in my
experience.

	Johnny

Johnny Billquist                  || "I'm on a bus
CS student at Uppsala University  ||  on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)minsk.docs.uu.se       ||  Reading murder books
pdp is alive!                     ||  tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol

Received: (from major@localhost)
	by minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (8.8.5/8.8.5) id HAA07202
	for pups-liszt; Sun, 14 Sep 1997 07:58:41 +1000 (EST)
X-Authentication-Warning: minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au: major set sender to
owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au using -f