John Gilmore: Yes -- but [Bell Labs'] administration was anything but egalitarian or meritocratic. I know someone who had immense trouble getting inside the door at the Labs because "all" he had was a bachelor's degree. Let their character be judged by how they treated a stranger. Sign me proud to have succeeded in life with no degrees at all, ==== That was where local management came in. I have no degrees at all. I haven't been nearly as successful in many ways as John, but I was recruited and hired by 1127. That I had no degree meant I was initially hired as a `special technical assistant' rather than a `member of technical staff,' but my department head and director and executive director (the last was the legendary Vic Vyssotsky) worked tirelessly on my behalf, without my pushing them at all, to get me upgraded, and succeeded after I'd been there about a year. It was only later that I realized just how much work they'd done on my behalf. The upgrade gave me a big raise in pay, but I was young enough and nerdy enough not to notice. Within the 1127 culture there was no perceptible difference; it was very much an egalitarian culture. I felt respected as an equal from the start (really from the day and a half I spent interviewing there). Not every part of the Labs, let alone AT&T, was like that, especially outside of the Research area. I didn't realize it initially but that was one of the ways I benefited from the success of UNIX (that 1127's and 112's management could push past such bureaucratic barriers). After all, Ken never had more than an MS.