5 Dec
2015
5 Dec
'15
5:03 p.m.
In exploring v6, I have found some uses for having a running v7 instance...
When I try to install the RP bootblock during the installation procedure
for installing Version 7 Unix following the original documentation:
ftp://ftp.uvsq.fr/pub/tuhs/PDP-11/Documentation/v7_setup.html
I am unable to boot from the RP06 disk that I installed into the boot
block onto via:
dd if=/usr/mdec/hpuboot of=/dev/rp0 count=1
No error, it just hangs. I compared hpuboot to the bootblock at it
matches byte for byte. I also compared it to the hpuboot file in Henry
Spencer's tape image (I am using Keith Bostic's tape) and it matches
that as well.
I am asking this list because I thought y'all might know if there was a
problem with:
1) the hpuboot binary on the tapes
2) v7 using RP06
3) something else helpful :) (maybe it's not supposed to be loaded to
byte 0 on the disk image, although that's how it works with v6?)
I am aware that the system can be booted from tape, but that seems hokey
(obviously it works, since that's how the installation process works in
the first place, but I think it is reasonable to expect to be able to
boot from the RP06). Interestingly, there are and RL02 and RK05 v7
images that boot from disk available, but not RP.
I will ask on the SimH list, if y'all don't think it's appropriately
directed.
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Will
5 Dec
5 Dec
5:26 p.m.
On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 12:03 PM, Will Senn <will.senn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I am unable to boot from the RP06 disk that I
installed into the boot
block onto via:
dd if=/usr/mdec/hpuboot of=/dev/rp0 count=1
Doing this from memory as couple of issues:
1.) do an ls -l of /dev/*rp* you need to use the raw (character) driver
not the blocked driver
2.) I believe the hp/rp driver is partitioned. Make sure you use the
proper partition.
5:44 p.m.
On 12/5/15 11:26 AM, Clem Cole wrote:
On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 12:03 PM, Will Senn <will.senn(a)gmail.com
<mailto:will.senn@gmail.com>> wrote:
I am unable to boot from the RP06 disk that I installed into the
boot block onto via:
dd if=/usr/mdec/hpuboot of=/dev/rp0 count=1
Doing this from memory as couple of issues:
1.) do an ls -l of /dev/*rp* you need to use the raw (character)
driver not the blocked driver
2.) I believe the hp/rp driver is partitioned. Make sure you use the
proper partition.
Clem,
I tried it with the raw device and partition 0. Here are the devices and
my approach:
# ls /dev/*rp*
/dev/rp0
/dev/rp3
/dev/rrp0
/dev/rrp3
# /etc/mount /dev/rp3 /usr
# dd if=/usr/mdec/hpuboot of=/dev/rrp0 count=1 conv=sync
0+1 records in
1+0 records out
or
# dd if=/usr/mdec/hpuboot of=/dev/rrp0 count=1
0+1 records in
0+1 records out
# sync
# sync
# sync
CTRL-E
Simulation stopped, PC: 002306 (MOV (SP)+,177776)
sim> q
Goodbye
TERRA:bostic-v7 wsenn$ pdp11 nboot.ini
PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Beta git commit id: 0f43551d
Disabling XQ
Hangs either way!
7:47 p.m.
Ah I gather you are running on rp0 (ie it's mounted as root).
Do the dd from the standalone system or boot from an rk05
On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 12:44 PM, Will Senn <will.senn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 12/5/15 11:26 AM, Clem Cole wrote:
On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 12:03 PM, Will Senn <will.senn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I am unable to boot from the RP06 disk that I
installed into the boot
block onto via:
dd if=/usr/mdec/hpuboot of=/dev/rp0 count=1
Doing this from memory as couple of issues:
1.) do an ls -l of /dev/*rp* you need to use the raw (character) driver
not the blocked driver
2.) I believe the hp/rp driver is partitioned. Make sure you use the
proper partition.
Clem,
I tried it with the raw device and partition 0. Here are the devices and
my approach:
# ls /dev/*rp*
/dev/rp0
/dev/rp3
/dev/rrp0
/dev/rrp3
# /etc/mount /dev/rp3 /usr
# dd if=/usr/mdec/hpuboot of=/dev/rrp0 count=1 conv=sync
0+1 records in
1+0 records out
or
# dd if=/usr/mdec/hpuboot of=/dev/rrp0 count=1
0+1 records in
0+1 records out
# sync
# sync
# sync
CTRL-E
Simulation stopped, PC: 002306 (MOV (SP)+,177776)
sim> q
Goodbye
TERRA:bostic-v7 wsenn$ pdp11 nboot.ini
PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Beta git commit id: 0f43551d
Disabling XQ
Hangs either way!
7:53 p.m.
You are most welcome -- BTW: the first name is Clement, my last is Cole
and my friends call me Clem.
One thing to remember... when woring with older versions of UNIX its not a
good idea to be modify in the a partition that is live. Later versions
were better about keeping the buffering system of your way.
Ken wrote the standalone tools for V7 so you do those sort of low level
things from it.
Best wishes.
Clem
On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 2:47 PM, Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
Ah I gather you are running on rp0 (ie it's
mounted as root).
Do the dd from the standalone system or boot from an rk05
On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 12:44 PM, Will Senn <will.senn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 12/5/15 11:26 AM, Clem Cole wrote:
On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 12:03 PM, Will Senn <will.senn(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I am unable to boot from the RP06 disk that I
installed into the boot
block onto via:
dd if=/usr/mdec/hpuboot of=/dev/rp0 count=1
Doing this from memory as couple of issues:
1.) do an ls -l of /dev/*rp* you need to use the raw (character) driver
not the blocked driver
2.) I believe the hp/rp driver is partitioned. Make sure you use the
proper partition.
Clem,
I tried it with the raw device and partition 0. Here are the devices and
my approach:
# ls /dev/*rp*
/dev/rp0
/dev/rp3
/dev/rrp0
/dev/rrp3
# /etc/mount /dev/rp3 /usr
# dd if=/usr/mdec/hpuboot of=/dev/rrp0 count=1 conv=sync
0+1 records in
1+0 records out
or
# dd if=/usr/mdec/hpuboot of=/dev/rrp0 count=1
0+1 records in
0+1 records out
# sync
# sync
# sync
CTRL-E
Simulation stopped, PC: 002306 (MOV (SP)+,177776)
sim> q
Goodbye
TERRA:bostic-v7 wsenn$ pdp11 nboot.ini
PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Beta git commit id: 0f43551d
Disabling XQ
Hangs either way!
8:47 p.m.
Ah Clem😉
Sent from my iPhone
On Dec 5, 2015, at 2:59 PM, Ronald Natalie
<ron(a)ronnatalie.com> wrote:
On Dec 5, 2015, at 2:53 PM, Clem Cole
<clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
You are most welcome -- BTW: the first name is Clement, my last is Cole and my friends
call me Clem.
Uh, Clem is right out?
8:08 p.m.
Thanks for the clarification and information. I will keep these things
in mind.
Regards,
Will
On 12/5/15 1:53 PM, Clem Cole wrote:
You are most welcome -- BTW: the first name is
Clement, my last is
Cole and my friends call me Clem.
One thing to remember... when woring with older versions of UNIX its
not a good idea to be modify in the a partition that is live. Later
versions were better about keeping the buffering system of your way.
Ken wrote the standalone tools for V7 so you do those sort of low
level things from it.
Best wishes.
Clem
On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 2:47 PM, Clem Cole <clemc(a)ccc.com
<mailto:clemc@ccc.com>> wrote:
Ah I gather you are running on rp0 (ie it's mounted as root).
Do the dd from the standalone system or boot from an rk05
On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 12:44 PM, Will Senn <will.senn(a)gmail.com
<mailto:will.senn@gmail.com>> wrote:
On 12/5/15 11:26 AM, Clem Cole wrote:
On Sat, Dec 5, 2015 at 12:03 PM, Will Senn
<will.senn(a)gmail.com <mailto:will.senn@gmail.com>> wrote:
I am unable to boot from the RP06 disk that I installed
into the boot block onto via:
dd if=/usr/mdec/hpuboot of=/dev/rp0 count=1
Doing this from memory as couple of issues:
1.) do an ls -l of /dev/*rp* you need to use the raw
(character) driver not the blocked driver
2.) I believe the hp/rp driver is partitioned. Make sure
you use the proper partition.
Clem,
I tried it with the raw device and partition 0. Here are the
devices and my approach:
# ls /dev/*rp*
/dev/rp0
/dev/rp3
/dev/rrp0
/dev/rrp3
# /etc/mount /dev/rp3 /usr
# dd if=/usr/mdec/hpuboot of=/dev/rrp0 count=1 conv=sync
0+1 records in
1+0 records out
or
# dd if=/usr/mdec/hpuboot of=/dev/rrp0 count=1
0+1 records in
0+1 records out
# sync
# sync
# sync
CTRL-E
Simulation stopped, PC: 002306 (MOV (SP)+,177776)
sim> q
Goodbye
TERRA:bostic-v7 wsenn$ pdp11 nboot.ini
PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Beta git commit id: 0f43551d
Disabling XQ
Hangs either way!
5:53 p.m.
Will,
when I brought up UNIX V7 on simh ~10 years ago, I used
Keith Bostic's tape, a simulated PDP11/45, an RP04 disk and
a TU10 tape drive. With this configuration it worked exactly
as described in 'Setting Up Unix'. IIRC, other configurations
had problems, although I never investigated this further.
You can find my package and a HOWTO here:
http://homepages.thm.de/~hg53/pdp11-unix
One note of caution: I did not try to build the whole thing
on a modern 64-bit system; it may well refuse to run. I will
try to bring it up on my 64-bit Linux box and then report
back here, if you are interested.
Hellwig
6:01 p.m.
On 12/5/15 11:53 AM, Hellwig Geisse wrote:
Will,
when I brought up UNIX V7 on simh ~10 years ago, I used
Keith Bostic's tape, a simulated PDP11/45, an RP04 disk and
a TU10 tape drive. With this configuration it worked exactly
as described in 'Setting Up Unix'. IIRC, other configurations
had problems, although I never investigated this further.
You can find my package and a HOWTO here:
http://homepages.thm.de/~hg53/pdp11-unix
One note of caution: I did not try to build the whole thing
on a modern 64-bit system; it may well refuse to run. I will
try to bring it up on my 64-bit Linux box and then report
back here, if you are interested.
Hellwig
Hellwig,
Much thanks for the explanation and link. I will try your instructions
and see if they still work. Your notes are exceptionally clear, I expect
if I follow them things, will work as expected. I'll let you know.
Thanks,
Will
6:39 p.m.
Problem solved - see below.
On 12/5/15 12:01 PM, Will Senn wrote:
On 12/5/15 11:53 AM, Hellwig Geisse wrote:
Well, you were right, sim didn't want to build 64 bit. However, I
already had a working sim, so I simply used the existing pdp11 binary
and your instructions. They worked!
In the process, I figured out that the original approach that I used
worked as well. The issue wasn't with the RP disk, it was with the
singular lack of a Boot prompt '@'. There isn't one. After the simulator
prints 'Disabling XQ', the boot loader is just sitting there waiting for
the user to type 'boot', at which point the loader will print 'Boot'
and
the ':' prompt will appear, allowing the kernel to be specified:
pdp11 tboot.ini
PDP-11 simulator V4.0-0 Beta git commit id: 0f43551d
Disabling XQ
boot
Boot
: hp(0,0)unix
mem = 2020544
#
Thanks Hellwig and thanks Cole!
Regards,
Will
Will,
One note of caution: I did not try to build the whole thing
on a modern 64-bit system; it may well refuse to run. I will
try to bring it up on my 64-bit Linux box and then report
back here, if you are interested.
Hellwig
Hellwig,
Much thanks for the explanation and link. I will try your instructions
and see if they still work. Your notes are exceptionally clear, I
expect if I follow them things, will work as expected. I'll let you know.
Thanks,
Will
6:53 p.m.
On Sa, 2015-12-05 at 12:39 -0600, Will Senn wrote:
Well, you were right, sim didn't want to build 64
bit. However, I
already had a working sim, so I simply used the existing pdp11 binary
and your instructions. They worked!
I also tried it, but on my system simh compiles (there are a few
warnings which isn't nice, but all of them harmless) and it runs
without errors, as far as I can see.
Thanks Hellwig and thanks Cole!
You're welcome - thanks for trying!
Hellwig
7:46 p.m.
On 12/5/15 12:53 PM, Hellwig Geisse wrote:
On Sa, 2015-12-05 at 12:39 -0600, Will Senn wrote:
Hellwig,
I only tried in on my Macbook with El Capitan, but I just confirmed that
it works fine on FreeBSD 10.2 with the warnings as you describe.
Thanks,
Will
Well, you were right, sim didn't want to
build 64 bit. However, I
already had a working sim, so I simply used the existing pdp11 binary
and your instructions. They worked!
I also tried it, but on my system simh
compiles (there are a few
warnings which isn't nice, but all of them harmless) and it runs
without errors, as far as I can see.
8:12 p.m.
Will Senn scripsit:
Well, you were right, sim didn't want to build 64
bit. However, I
already had a working sim, so I simply used the existing pdp11
binary and your instructions. They worked!
I simply wrap gcc in this script:
#!/bin/sh
exec /usr/bin/gcc -m32 "$@"
to solve problems like this. I keep it in ~/bin named gcc32 and
then rename it to gcc when I need to compile 32-bit-specific code.
It's much better than trying to whack on the Makefile. I wish I could
use a similar hack to get bas/bs running directly on Linux: they seem
to assume 16-bitness, and segfault quickly.
--
John Cowan http://www.ccil.org/~cowan cowan(a)ccil.org
I don't know half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less
than half of you half as well as you deserve. --Bilbo
3066
days inactive
3066
days old
13 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
Clem Cole -
Clem cole
-
Hellwig Geisse -
John Cowan -
Ronald Natalie -
Will Senn