10 Jan
2015
10 Jan
'15
10:15 p.m.
<much discussion about quadratic search removed>
All I remember (and still support to this day) is that I’ve got a TERMCAP=‘string’ in my
login scripts to set termcap to the specific terminal I’m logging in with.
Long ago this made things much faster. Today I think that it is just a holdover that I’m
not changing due to inertia, rather than any real need for it.
David
—
David Barto
david(a)kdbarto.org
10 Jan
10 Jan
10:43 p.m.
New subject: Termcap vs terminfo
On Jan 10, 2015, at 2:15 PM, David Barto <david(a)kdbarto.org> wrote:
All I remember (and still support to this day) is that
I’ve got a TERMCAP=‘string’ in my login scripts to set termcap to the specific terminal
I’m logging in with.
Long ago this made things much faster. Today I think that it is just a holdover that I’m
not changing due to inertia, rather than any real need for it.
There is still a need for this.
Most modern curses capability entries for 'xterm' and friends use the memory
buffer windowing capability (a term I made up) such that when you - say - run less to
display a file, it switches to a dedicated region in the terminal memory buffer while
printing its output, then restores the buffer to back where you were to begin with when
you exit the pager.
This drives me insane! When I 'man foo' and find the relevant bits in the
document, when I quit out of the pager I want those bits to stay on the screen so I can
refer to them, dammit! There are two shortcuts to this, both involving custom
termcap/terminfo entries.
In the termcap case, you can define a $TERMCAP capability that describes an
'xterm' without the memory buffer hopping. In the terminfo case, you tic(1)
your custom 'xterm' definition into $HOME/.terminfo/...
These days - naturally - everyone knows the universe exists inside an ANSI terminal
window, so who gives a fsck about term{cap.info}? Well, I do, for this very reason. A
pox on everyone who has not 'setenv TERM aaa-48-s' !!!
--lyndon
P.S. Terminfo entry attached for your enjoyment. (It's a text/plain. I have no idea
what the hell Apple's Mail.app will do with it.)
10:51 p.m.
New subject: Termcap vs terminfo
On Jan 10, 2015, at 2:43 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg <lyndon(a)orthanc.ca> wrote:
Most modern curses capability entries for
'xterm' and friends use the memory buffer windowing capability (a term I made
up)
Umm ... I meant 'just made up' as in "I can't think of a better name
this second." I'm pretty sure somebody else invented memory buffers and sliding
pointers.
11:02 p.m.
New subject: Termcap vs terminfo
Lyndon Nerenberg <lyndon(a)orthanc.ca> writes:
On Jan 10, 2015, at 2:15 PM, David Barto
<david(a)kdbarto.org> wrote:
Or just use: xterm -xrm '*titeInhibit: true'
Just for less: export LESS="-X"
Just for vim: set t_ti= t_te=
--
Christian Neukirchen <chneukirchen(a)gmail.com> http://chneukirchen.org
All I remember (and still support to this day) is
that I’ve got a
TERMCAP=‘string’ in my login scripts to set termcap to the specific
terminal I’m logging in with.
Long ago this made things much faster. Today I think that it is just
a holdover that I’m not changing due to inertia, rather than any
real need for it.
There is still a need for this.
Most modern curses capability entries for 'xterm' and friends use the
memory buffer windowing capability (a term I made up) such that when
you - say - run less to display a file, it switches to a dedicated
region in the terminal memory buffer while printing its output, then
restores the buffer to back where you were to begin with when you exit
the pager.
This drives me insane! When I 'man foo' and find the relevant bits in
the document, when I quit out of the pager I want those bits to stay
on the screen so I can refer to them, dammit! There are two shortcuts
to this, both involving custom termcap/terminfo entries.
11:04 p.m.
New subject: Termcap vs terminfo
On Jan 10, 2015, at 3:02 PM, Christian Neukirchen <chneukirchen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Or just use: xterm -xrm '*titeInhibit:
true'
Just for less: export LESS="-X"
Just for vim: set t_ti= t_te=
Please provide the list of workarounds for all other curses consumers used worldwide and
forever.
Wouldn't it be nice if I could just do this in one place? Oh, wait ...
11 Jan
11 Jan
2:06 a.m.
New subject: Termcap vs terminfo
On Sat, 10 Jan 2015, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
This drives me insane! When I 'man foo' and
find the relevant bits in
the document, when I quit out of the pager I want those bits to stay on
the screen so I can refer to them, dammit! There are two shortcuts to
this, both involving custom termcap/terminfo entries.
I'm glad I'm not the only one annoyed by this "feature".
--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Bliss is a MacBook with a FreeBSD server."
http://www.horsfall.org/spam.html (and check the home page whilst you're there)
9:16 a.m.
New subject: Termcap vs terminfo
On 11/01/2015 04:06, Dave Horsfall wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jan 2015, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
I agree it's maddening! This is what I have on my .bashrc file to avoid
this behavior.
# Don't restore screen, quit at EOF, more-like prompt, pass color
control chars
export LESS=-XEmR
This problem, and the desire to use the vi key bindings instead of the
Emacs ones for command-line editing, are the reason I invested effort to
place my login configuration under Git control, and replicate it on the
tens of hosts I find myself logged in over a working day. Now a simple
"git clone" restores sanity to my working environment.
This drives me insane! When I 'man
foo' and find the relevant bits in
the document, when I quit out of the pager I want those bits to stay on
the screen so I can refer to them, dammit! There are two shortcuts to
this, both involving custom termcap/terminfo entries.
I'm glad I'm not the only one annoyed by this "feature".
4:48 p.m.
New subject: Termcap vs terminfo
Lyndon Nerenberg <lyndon(a)orthanc.ca> writes:
On Jan 10, 2015, at 3:02 PM, Christian Neukirchen
<chneukirchen(a)gmail.com> wrote:
I did: xterm -xrm '*titeInhibit: true'
--
Christian Neukirchen <chneukirchen(a)gmail.com> http://chneukirchen.org
Or just use: xterm -xrm '*titeInhibit:
true'
Just for less: export LESS="-X"
Just for vim: set t_ti= t_te=
Please provide the list of workarounds for all other curses consumers
used worldwide and forever.
Wouldn't it be nice if I could just do this in one place? Oh, wait ... 
12 Jan
12 Jan
3:36 p.m.
New subject: Termcap vs terminfo
+1
On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 9:06 PM, Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jan 2015, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
This drives me insane! When I 'man
foo' and find the relevant bits in
the document, when I quit out of the pager I want those bits to stay on
the screen so I can refer to them, dammit! There are two shortcuts to
this, both involving custom termcap/terminfo entries.
I'm glad I'm not the only one annoyed by this "feature".
--
Dave Horsfall DTM (VK2KFU) "Bliss is a MacBook with a FreeBSD server."
http://www.horsfall.org/spam.html (and check the home page whilst you're
there)
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4:51 p.m.
New subject: Disable "less" screen swapping was: Re: Termcap vs terminfo
On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 at 9:06 PM, Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org
<mailto:dave@horsfall.org>> wrote:
On Sat, 10 Jan 2015, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote:
I am also not happy with this behavior.
There is at least one "fix" I have found for this particular annoyance.
A little background: this behavior uses a pair of termcap entries called
"ti" and "te" which, on most recent xterm implementations, switch
between alternate screens. Many programs on startup switch to the
alternate screen to keep their displays separate from the normal command
scroll buffer.
There is an xterm resource "titeInhibit" which, if set to true, will
disable the remarkably annoying mode switch that is used by less (and
also any other application that tries to use the screen swap).
Given this started out as a termcap thread, hopefully this will be
appropriate!
This complete disable of the screen swap may not be what everyone is
looking for, but it certainly was what I wanted.
--
Russell
This drives me insane! When I 'man
foo' and find the relevant
bits in
the document, when I quit out of the pager I want
those bits to
stay on
the screen so I can refer to them, dammit! There
are two
shortcuts to
this, both involving custom termcap/terminfo
entries.
I'm glad I'm not the only one annoyed by this "feature".
3386
days inactive
3388
days old
9 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Christian Neukirchen -
Clem Cole -
Dave Horsfall -
David Barto -
Diomidis Spinellis -
Lyndon Nerenberg -
Russell Rezaian