Clem Cole: Exactly!!!! That's what Eric did when he wrote more(ucb) - he *added to Unix*. The funny part was that USG thought more(ucb) was a good idea and then wrote their own, pg(att); which was just as arrogant as the info behavior from the Gnu folks!!! ====== And others wrote their own too, of course. The one I know best is p(1), written by Rob Pike in the late 1970s at the University of Toronto. I encountered at Caltech on the system Rob had set up before leaving for Bell Labs (and which I cared for and hacked on for the next four years before following him). By the time I reached BTL it was a normal part of the Research system; I believe it's in all of the Eighth, Ninth, and Tenth Edition manuals. p is interesting because it's so much lighter-weight, and because it has rather a different interior design: Rather than doing termcappy things, p just prints 22 lines (or the number specified in an option), then doesn't print the newline after the 22nd line. Hit return and it will print the next 22 lines, and so on. The resulting text just flows up the glass-tty screen without any fuss, cbreak, or anything. (I believe the first version predated V7 and therefore cbreak.) Why 22 lines instead of 24, the common height of glass ttys back then? Partly because that means you keep a line or two of context when advancing pages, making reading simpler. But also because in those days, a standard page destined for a printer (e.g. from pr or nroff, and therefore from man) was 66 lines long. 22 evenly divides 66, so man something | p never gives you a screen spanning pages. p was able to back up: type - (and return) instead of just return, and it reprints the previous 22-line page; -- (return) the 22 lines before that; and so on. This was implemented in an interesting and clever way: a wrapper around the standard I/O library which kept a circular buffer of some fixed number of characters (8KiB in early versions, I think), and a new call that, in effect, backed up the file pointer by one character and returned the character just backed over. That made it easy to back over the previous N lines: just make that call until you've seen N newlines, then discard the newline you've just backed over, and you're at the beginning the first line you want to reprint. As I vaguely recall, more was able to back up, but only when reading from a real file, not a pipeline. p could do (limited but sufficient) backup from a pipeline too. As a creature of its pre-window-system era, you could also type !command when p paused as well. I remember being quite interested in that wrapper as a possible library for use in other things, though I never found a use for it. I also remember a wonderful Elements-of-Programming-Style adventure with Rob's code. I discovered it had a bug under some specific case when read returned less than a full bufferful. I read the code carefully and couldn't see what was wrong. So I wrote my own replacement for the problematic subroutine from scratch, tested it carefully in corner cases, then with listings of Rob's code and mine side-by-side walked through each with the problem case and found the bug. I still carry my own version of p (rewritten from scratch mainly to make it more portable--Rob's code was old enough to be too clever in some details) wherever I go; ironically, even back to U of T where I have been on and off for the past 30 years. more and less and pg and the like are certainly useful programs; for various reasons they're not to my taste, but I don't scorn them. But I can't help being particular fond of p because it taught me a few things about programming too. Norman Wilson Toronto ON