23 Feb
2003
23 Feb
'03
12:59 a.m.
I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a header
on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a
long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that I
think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can improve
my method, let me know.
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
"Teach a man to fish..."
--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
"The things which are seen are temporary,
but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christos Papachristou" <chpap(a)ics.forth.gr>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM
Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?
I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52
connected to a RQDX1
controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to installing
BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone version of
zrqc from the xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be downloaded
directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 , i.e. a version
of zrqb or something similar?
23 Feb
23 Feb
6:22 a.m.
Hello again from Gregg C Levine
I've looked at your web pages on the subject of using XXDP to create
that standalone format utility. And it makes sense. All of it.
However, there's a broken link on it, regarding XXDP, and where to
find it. Currently the link which points to the repository at Ibiblio,
is correct. Or even the one you're using as they both work. But the
one that says that the manual, and notes, and the OS, are available
at, is the broken one. It comes up to a file not found error message.
That guy has always had problems with his site, which is unfortunate.
It hasn't returned.
However, what are you running E-11 under? And which version? The
current one prefers a plain DOS environment, or even a Linux
environment. The older ones, such as the versions stored on the site
here, will work under DOS/Windows, even Windows 98SE, as I've proven.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
-----Original Message-----
From: pups-admin(a)minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin@minnie.tuhs.org]
On
Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 8:00 PM
To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org; pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a
header
on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX
disk. It has
been a
long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced
on the program
that I
think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can
improve
my method, let me know.
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
"Teach a man to fish..."
--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
"The things which are seen are temporary,
but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christos Papachristou" <chpap(a)ics.forth.gr>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM
Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?
> I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a
RQDX1
> controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS)
prior to
installing
> BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like
zrqch0(standalone
version of
> zrqc from the xxdp package - only for RQDX3)
that can be
downloaded
> directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes
the RQDX1 , i.e. a
version
of zrqb or
something similar?
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
5:15 p.m.
I fixed the link.
E11 is a bit of a problem. I'm running E11 3.0 demo. I have to run it on a
machine that still has Windows ME. All the other machines run XP now, and
E11 doesn't seem to work under XP. I tried to get to www.dbit.com to see if
there's a fix, but the site seems to be gone.
--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
"The things which are seen are temporary,
but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" <j.r.engdahl(a)adelphia.net>et>;
<pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 1:22 AM
Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP
Hello again from Gregg C Levine
I've looked at your web pages on the subject of using XXDP to create
that standalone format utility. And it makes sense. All of it.
However, there's a broken link on it, regarding XXDP, and where to
find it. Currently the link which points to the repository at Ibiblio,
is correct. Or even the one you're using as they both work. But the
one that says that the manual, and notes, and the OS, are available
at, is the broken one. It comes up to a file not found error message.
That guy has always had problems with his site, which is unfortunate.
It hasn't returned.
However, what are you running E-11 under? And which version? The
current one prefers a plain DOS environment, or even a Linux
environment. The older ones, such as the versions stored on the site
here, will work under DOS/Windows, even Windows 98SE, as I've proven.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
-----Original Message-----
From: pups-admin(a)minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin@minnie.tuhs.org]
On
Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 8:00 PM
To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org; pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a
header
on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a
UNIX disk. It has
been a
long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I
practiced on the program
that I
think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to
him.
There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can
improve
my method, let me know.
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
"Teach a man to fish..."
--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
"The things which are seen are temporary,
but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christos Papachristou" <chpap(a)ics.forth.gr>
To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM
Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?
> I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a
RQDX1
> controller (The machine is a pdp11/73
without OS) prior to
installing
> BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like
zrqch0(standalone
version of
> zrqc from the xxdp package - only for
RQDX3) that can be
downloaded
> directly to the pdp via vtserver and
recognizes the RQDX1 , i.e. a
version
of zrqb
or something similar?
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
8:31 p.m.
Hello again from Gregg C Levine
Regarding Dbit, and E-11. The site is back. But you're right. I don't
think there's a fix. If there is one, he'll probably deny it.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
-----Original Message-----
From: pups-admin(a)minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin@minnie.tuhs.org]
On
Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 12:16 PM
To: Gregg C Levine; pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
I fixed the link.
E11 is a bit of a problem. I'm running E11 3.0 demo. I have to run
it on a
machine that still has Windows ME. All the other
machines run XP
now, and
E11 doesn't seem to work under XP. I tried to get
to www.dbit.com to
see if
there's a fix, but the site seems to be gone.
--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
"The things which are seen are temporary,
but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" <j.r.engdahl(a)adelphia.net>et>;
<pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 1:22 AM
Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> Hello again from Gregg C Levine
> I've looked at your web pages on the subject of using XXDP to
create
> that standalone format utility. And it makes
sense. All of it.
> However, there's a broken link on it, regarding XXDP, and where to
> find it. Currently the link which points to the repository at
Ibiblio,
> is correct. Or even the one you're using as
they both work. But
the
> one that says that the manual, and notes, and the
OS, are
available
> at, is the broken one. It comes up to a file not
found error
message.
> That guy has always had problems with his site,
which is
unfortunate.
> It hasn't returned.
>
> However, what are you running E-11 under? And which version? The
> current one prefers a plain DOS environment, or even a Linux
> environment. The older ones, such as the versions stored on the
site
> here, will work under DOS/Windows, even Windows
98SE, as I've
proven.
> -------------------
> Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pups-admin(a)minnie.tuhs.org
[mailto:pups-admin@minnie.tuhs.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 8:00 PM
> > To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org; pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> > Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
> XXDP
> >
> > I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and
put a
> header
> > on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It
has
> been a
> > long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the
program
> that I
> > think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> >
> > There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone
can
> improve
> > my method, let me know.
> >
> > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> >
> >
> > "Teach a man to fish..."
> >
> > --
> > Jonathan Engdahl
> > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> >
> > "The things which are seen are temporary,
> > but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christos Papachristou" <chpap(a)ics.forth.gr>
> > To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
> > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM
> > Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?
> >
> >
> > > I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a
> RQDX1
> > > controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to
> installing
> > > BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone
> version of
> > > zrqc from the xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be
> downloaded
> > > directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 ,
i.e. a
version
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups of zrqb
or something similar?
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
8:31 p.m.
Hello again from Gregg C Levine
I can't understand it. When I posted the original reply, that site
regarding XXDP wasn't up. Now it is. I think this is all because the
Winter of 2003, is causing chaos to over work itself. And Jonathan, I
know we'll figure something out. This business is fun, so I'm looking
at it, as a hobby if nothing else.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
-----Original Message-----
From: pups-admin(a)minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin@minnie.tuhs.org]
On
Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 12:16 PM
To: Gregg C Levine; pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
I fixed the link.
E11 is a bit of a problem. I'm running E11 3.0 demo. I have to run
it on a
machine that still has Windows ME. All the other
machines run XP
now, and
E11 doesn't seem to work under XP. I tried to get
to www.dbit.com to
see if
there's a fix, but the site seems to be gone.
--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
"The things which are seen are temporary,
but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" <j.r.engdahl(a)adelphia.net>et>;
<pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 1:22 AM
Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> Hello again from Gregg C Levine
> I've looked at your web pages on the subject of using XXDP to
create
> that standalone format utility. And it makes
sense. All of it.
> However, there's a broken link on it, regarding XXDP, and where to
> find it. Currently the link which points to the repository at
Ibiblio,
> is correct. Or even the one you're using as
they both work. But
the
> one that says that the manual, and notes, and the
OS, are
available
> at, is the broken one. It comes up to a file not
found error
message.
> That guy has always had problems with his site,
which is
unfortunate.
> It hasn't returned.
>
> However, what are you running E-11 under? And which version? The
> current one prefers a plain DOS environment, or even a Linux
> environment. The older ones, such as the versions stored on the
site
> here, will work under DOS/Windows, even Windows
98SE, as I've
proven.
> -------------------
> Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
> (This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: pups-admin(a)minnie.tuhs.org
[mailto:pups-admin@minnie.tuhs.org]
> On
> > Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> > Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 8:00 PM
> > To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org; pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> > Subject: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
> XXDP
> >
> > I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and
put a
> header
> > on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It
has
> been a
> > long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the
program
> that I
> > think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> >
> > There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone
can
> improve
> > my method, let me know.
> >
> > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> >
> >
> > "Teach a man to fish..."
> >
> > --
> > Jonathan Engdahl
> > http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
> >
> > "The things which are seen are temporary,
> > but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Christos Papachristou" <chpap(a)ics.forth.gr>
> > To: <cctalk(a)classiccmp.org>
> > Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 4:57 AM
> > Subject: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?
> >
> >
> > > I would like to do a bad sector scan on a RD52 connected to a
> RQDX1
> > > controller (The machine is a pdp11/73 without OS) prior to
> installing
> > > BSD2.11.Is there a standalone program like zrqch0(standalone
> version of
> > > zrqc from the xxdp package - only for RQDX3) that can be
> downloaded
> > > directly to the pdp via vtserver and recognizes the RQDX1 ,
i.e. a
version
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups of zrqb
or something similar?
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups 
9:40 p.m.
Jonathan Engdahl wrote:
I documented the procedure to extract a program from
XXDP and put a header
on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It has been a
long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that I
think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can improve
my method, let me know.
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
There isn't very much to know about the a.out header,
and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably
have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0.
While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that
vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that
it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and
not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program
loader that understands a.out format, not just something that
only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it)
This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching
into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get
you to the restart address.
In your example you have:
000020/ 000167
000022/ 145702
If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code
jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702
(of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on
an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first
2 words of the restart code).
If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that
it isn't) you would want either:
000137
145702
or:
000167
145676
24 Feb
24 Feb
2:41 a.m.
You are right: 000137. The funny thing is, I had it right the first time.
I'll go update the web page.
On the other header fields, I agree with your idea, but for some reason, I
have this vague recollection that there was a reason for what I did with
them. It's always a bad idea to second guess something you did a year ago
and "fix" it (see the 000137 thing). It's working, so I'd best leave
it
alone until it's proven to be broken. I think I remember setting it up that
way after reading through the source for some boot loader.
Hmm, yes, it was the "boot" program. VTserver squirts down a small loader
via ODT, which then loads boot.dd. Same as the boot program that the 512
byte rauboot program loads. This one:
73Boot from ra(0,0,0) at 0172150
: ra(0,0,0)unix
Boot.dd knows enough to chat with the console so you can tell it what file
you want off the virtual tape or hard drive, and it does some decoding of
the header, but it's limited. Maybe I should go read that code again.
--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
"The things which are seen are temporary,
but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Davidson" <michael_davidson(a)pacbell.net>
To: "Jonathan Engdahl" <j.r.engdahl(a)adelphia.net>
Cc: <cctech(a)classiccmp.org>rg>; <pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP
Jonathan Engdahl wrote:
>I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a
header
>on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a
UNIX disk. It has been a
>long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that
I
>think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
>
>There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can
improve
my method, let
me know.
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
There isn't very much to know about the a.out header,
and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably
have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0.
While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that
vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that
it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and
not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program
loader that understands a.out format, not just something that
only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it)
This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching
into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get
you to the restart address.
In your example you have:
000020/ 000167
000022/ 145702
If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code
jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702
(of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on
an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first
2 words of the restart code).
If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that
it isn't) you would want either:
000137
145702
or:
000167
145676
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
4:32 a.m.
Now that I think of it,
000137
145702
is wrong too. Assuming that the program is relocatable (which in this case
it probably is not), and you simply loaded the entire file into memory, it
would be offset by the 16 byte header, so you would want to jump to 145722.
I think I will remove that patch at 20 altogether.
Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a barely
twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops for an
RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected.
--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
"The things which are seen are temporary,
but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Davidson" <michael_davidson(a)pacbell.net>
To: "Jonathan Engdahl" <j.r.engdahl(a)adelphia.net>
Cc: <cctech(a)classiccmp.org>rg>; <pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP
Jonathan Engdahl wrote:
>I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put a
header
>on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a
UNIX disk. It has been a
>long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I practiced on the program that
I
>think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
>
>There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone can
improve
> >my method, let me know.
> >
> >http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
> >
> There isn't very much to know about the a.out header,
> and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably
> have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0.
>
> While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that
> vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that
> it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and
> not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program
> loader that understands a.out format, not just something that
> only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it)
>
> This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching
> into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get
> you to the restart address.
>
> In your example you have:
>
> 000020/ 000167
> 000022/ 145702
>
> If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code
> jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702
> (of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on
> an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first
> 2 words of the restart code).
>
> If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that
> it isn't) you would want either:
>
000137
145702
>
> or:
>
> 000167
> 145676
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> PUPS mailing list
> PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
5:10 a.m.
In article by Jonathan Engdahl:
Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be
loaded to a barely
twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops for an
RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected.
I'm glad I wrote VTserver, it seems it has more uses than I thought of.
I'm out of the development loop for the new VTserver, but hopefully
it's progressing along.
Warren
5:40 a.m.
Hello again from Gregg C Levine
I've got a PDP-11/53 on order, call it. Would that board work there?
And where could I find one of these, RX02 (DSD 4140) board(s)? Also,
what exactly is this RX02 (DSD 4140) board? Its one that I don't quite
remember hearing about.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
-----Original Message-----
From: pups-admin(a)minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin@minnie.tuhs.org]
On
Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:33 PM
To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org; pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
Now that I think of it,
this case
000137
145702
is wrong too. Assuming that the program is relocatable (which in it probably is not), and you simply loaded the entire
file into
memory, it
would be offset by the 16 byte header, so you would
want to jump to
145722.
I think I will remove that patch at 20 altogether.
Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a barely
twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops
for an
RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected.
--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
"The things which are seen are temporary,
but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Davidson" <michael_davidson(a)pacbell.net>
To: "Jonathan Engdahl" <j.r.engdahl(a)adelphia.net>
Cc: <cctech(a)classiccmp.org>rg>; <pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> Jonathan Engdahl wrote:
>
> >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put
a
header
> >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It
has been a
> >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I
practiced on the
program that
I
> >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> >
> >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone
can
improve
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
my method,
let me know.
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
There isn't very much to know about the a.out header,
and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably
have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0.
While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that
vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that
it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and
not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program
loader that understands a.out format, not just something that
only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it)
This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching
into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get
you to the restart address.
In your example you have:
000020/ 000167
000022/ 145702
If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code
jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702
(of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on
an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first
2 words of the restart code).
If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that
it isn't) you would want either:
000137
145702
or:
000167
145676
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
6:34 a.m.
The DSD-4140 (Data Systems Design) is an RX-02 compatible floppy controller.
I had a couple, but they're gone. You can find them on the web here and
there. I have the manual for it as a directory of .jpg files. I had one that
was malfunctioning. It was sort of fun diagnosing it. I found a bad bus
buffer and fixed it.
I think it's an 18-bit DMA board. Might not work with the 11/53. Wait,
though, I have a disk with a special RT-11 driver for it. It puts the DMA
buffers in the first 256K, then copies the data if the final destination is
higher. I'm not sure if BSD can deal with this issue. I've never had to
worry about it. I have all the diags for the 4140 also.
DSD was bought by Qualogy, so some of their stuff has that name on it.
Arclight (www.arcind.net) shows three in stock. The board number is
804140-1.
Second picture down on this page:
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/spare_parts.htm
Here's how it boots:
http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/2001-06/0032.html
--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
"The things which are seen are temporary,
but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" <j.r.engdahl(a)adelphia.net>et>;
<pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 12:40 AM
Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP
Hello again from Gregg C Levine
I've got a PDP-11/53 on order, call it. Would that board work there?
And where could I find one of these, RX02 (DSD 4140) board(s)? Also,
what exactly is this RX02 (DSD 4140) board? Its one that I don't quite
remember hearing about.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
-----Original Message-----
From: pups-admin(a)minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin@minnie.tuhs.org]
On
Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:33 PM
To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org; pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
Now that I think of it,
this case
000137
145702
is wrong too. Assuming that the program is relocatable (which in it probably is not), and you simply loaded the entire
file into
memory, it
would be offset by the 16 byte header, so you would
want to jump to
145722.
I think I will remove that patch at 20 altogether.
Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a barely
twitching PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops
for an
RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected.
--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
"The things which are seen are temporary,
but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Davidson" <michael_davidson(a)pacbell.net>
To: "Jonathan Engdahl" <j.r.engdahl(a)adelphia.net>
Cc: <cctech(a)classiccmp.org>rg>; <pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM
Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
> Jonathan Engdahl wrote:
>
> >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and put
a
header
> >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It
has been a
> >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so I
practiced on the
program that
I
> >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> >
> >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if someone
can
improve
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
my method,
let me know.
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
There isn't very much to know about the a.out header,
and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably
have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0.
While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that
vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that
it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and
not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program
loader that understands a.out format, not just something that
only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it)
This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching
into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get
you to the restart address.
In your example you have:
000020/ 000167
000022/ 145702
If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code
jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702
(of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on
an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first
2 words of the restart code).
If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that
it isn't) you would want either:
000137
145702
or:
000167
145676
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
7:24 a.m.
New subject: DEC Compatible boards was RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? --> XXDP
Hello again from Gregg C Levine
Going to the website you suggested www.arcind.net brought up an
interesting collection of boards, the ones made by Data Translation:
Data Translation:
1 - DT2762-DI
1 - DT2762-SE
1 - DT2762-SE-PG
At first glance I believe them to be the usual items that DT was
making for DEC systems until whenever they decided to EOL the whole
product line. DT, not DEC. Can any of you, ID them? Oh, and Jonathan,
I've sent an e-mail off to the company requesting a quote.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
-->
-----Original Message-----
From: pups-admin(a)minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:pups-admin@minnie.tuhs.org]
On
Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 1:34 AM
To: Gregg C Levine; pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org
Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
The DSD-4140 (Data Systems Design) is an RX-02 compatible floppy
controller.
I had a couple, but they're gone. You can find
them on the web here
and
there. I have the manual for it as a directory of .jpg
files. I had
one that
was malfunctioning. It was sort of fun diagnosing it.
I found a bad
bus
buffer and fixed it.
I think it's an 18-bit DMA board. Might not work with the 11/53.
Wait,
though, I have a disk with a special RT-11 driver for
it. It puts
the DMA
buffers in the first 256K, then copies the data if the
final
destination is
higher. I'm not sure if BSD can deal with this
issue. I've never had
to
worry about it. I have all the diags for the 4140
also.
DSD was bought by Qualogy, so some of their stuff has that name on
it.
Arclight (www.arcind.net) shows three in stock. The board number is
804140-1.
Second picture down on this page:
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/spare_parts.htm
Here's how it boots:
http://www.classiccmp.org/mail-archive/classiccmp/2001-06/0032.html
--
Jonathan Engdahl
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
"The things which are seen are temporary,
but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net>
To: "'Jonathan Engdahl'" <j.r.engdahl(a)adelphia.net>et>;
<pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Monday, February 24, 2003 12:40 AM
Subject: RE: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? -->
XXDP
Hello again from Gregg C Levine
I've got a PDP-11/53 on order, call it. Would that board work there?
And where could I find one of these, RX02 (DSD 4140) board(s)? Also,
what exactly is this RX02 (DSD 4140) board? Its one that I don't
quite
remember hearing about.
-------------------
Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net
------------------------------------------------------------
"The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to General Obi-Wan Kenobi )
(This company dedicates this E-Mail to Master Yoda )
> -----Original Message-----
> From: pups-admin(a)minnie.tuhs.org
[mailto:pups-admin@minnie.tuhs.org]
On
> Behalf Of Jonathan Engdahl
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 11:33 PM
> To: cctech(a)classiccmp.org; pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org
> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility?
-->
XXDP
to
Now that I think of it,
this case
000137
145702
is wrong too. Assuming that the program is relocatable (which in it probably is not), and you simply loaded the
entire file into
memory, it
> would be offset by the 16 byte header, so you would want to jump 145722.
>
> I think I will remove that patch at 20 altogether.
>
> Did you know that the output from PDPXASM can be loaded to a
barely
twitching
PDP-11 via VTserver? I used PDPXASM to write scope loops
for an
> RX02 (DSD 4140) board I resurrected.
>
> --
> Jonathan Engdahl
> http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl
>
> "The things which are seen are temporary,
> but the things which are not seen are eternal." II Cor. 4:18
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Michael Davidson" <michael_davidson(a)pacbell.net>
> To: "Jonathan Engdahl" <j.r.engdahl(a)adelphia.net>
> Cc: <cctech(a)classiccmp.org>rg>; <pups(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:40 PM
> Subject: Re: [pups] Re: PDP11 - RQDX1 standalone format utility? XXDP
>
>
> > Jonathan Engdahl wrote:
> >
> > >I documented the procedure to extract a program from XXDP and
put
a
someone
header
> >on it so that you can boot it from VTserver or a UNIX disk. It
has been
a
> >long time since I did this to ZRQCH0, so
I practiced on the
program that
> I
> > >think Christos needs (ZRQBC1) and sent it to him.
> > >
> > >There's a lot I don't know about the a.out header, so if
can
improve
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups my method,
let me know.
http://users.safeaccess.com/engdahl/xxdp.htm#hackXXDP
There isn't very much to know about the a.out header,
and what you are doing looks OK although I would probably
have set a_text to 160000 and left a_data and a_bss as 0.
While I am not really familiar with the BSD boot code that
vtserver uses when loading a program I am almost certain that
it will use the entrypoint address in the a.out header and
not just jump to address 0. (remember it's an actual program
loader that understands a.out format, not just something that
only knows how to load a boot block and jump to it)
This is confirmed by the fact that the code you are patching
into the image at address 0 is wrong if you want it to get
you to the restart address.
In your example you have:
000020/ 000167
000022/ 145702
If this was loaded at address 0 in memory and the boot code
jumped to address 0, you would end up at 145706 *not* 145702
(of course, you might very well get lucky and still land on
an instruction boundary, but you would have skipped the first
2 words of the restart code).
If this code were really necessary (and I'm 99.99% sure that
it isn't) you would want either:
000137
145702
or:
000167
145676
_______________________________________________
PUPS mailing list
PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org
http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups
7732
days inactive
7733
days old
11 comments
4 participants
participants (4)
-
Gregg C Levine -
Jonathan Engdahl -
Michael Davidson -
Warren Toomey