12 Aug
2022
12 Aug
'22
11:01 a.m.
And I've received the documents! This is a
pastebin with the rough contents of the documentation package.
https://pastebin.com/jAqqBXA4 <https://pastebin.com/jAqqBXA4>
Now for some analysis:
I’m interested in the journey of SysV IPC. So far I have established that these originated
in CBUnix, with a lot of thinking on how to optimize these around the time that Unix
3.0/4.0/5.0 happened. They did not appear in Unix 3.0 / SysIII, and from the Unix 4.0
documentation I gather that it was not included there either.
This would make Unix 5.0 / SysV R1 the first release with what is now known as SysV IPC.
The PDP11 version of R1 has the CBUnix version of shared memory, as the VAX version did
not make sense in the limited address space of the PDP11.
From the pastebin summary, it would seem that IPC is not in this documentation either?
That would be surprising, and reopens the possibility that IPC was part of Unix 4.0
Paul
12 Aug
12 Aug
11:15 a.m.
New subject: Documents for UNIX Collections
Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS <tuhs(a)tuhs.org> wrote:
I’m interested in the journey of SysV IPC. So far I
have established
that these originated in CBUnix, with a lot of thinking on how to optimize
these around the time that Unix 3.0/4.0/5.0 happened. They did not appear
in Unix 3.0 / SysIII, and from the Unix 4.0 documentation I gather that
it was not included there either.
I am not sure you can make that conclusion, as the 4.0 printed documents
did not include the programmer's manual; instead they gave out the
3.0 manual and there was a list of changes somewhere in the other doc.
Unfortunately, without actual 4.0 sources, it will always be a question.
I have this VERY vague memory that I saw IPC in 4.0, but I could
very easily be wrong... It was over 40 years ago, after all. :-)
Arnold
11:41 a.m.
New subject: Documents for UNIX Collections
On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 05:15:52AM -0600, arnold(a)skeeve.com wrote:
Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS <tuhs(a)tuhs.org> wrote:
"Release 4.0 was launched from this organization in March. It introduced
new IPC mechanisms"
from pg 39 of Pirzada's thesis
https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/bitstream/10044/1/7942/1/Shamim_Sharfuddin_Pi…
referred to in tuhs/Documentation/Emails/dmr_wkt
"Other treasures: Shamim Pirzada did most of a PhD thesis on Unix
as an exemplar of software evolution for Imperial College (London)
that (in the part I have) contains a pretty good account of details
of history up to about 1988."
I’m interested in the journey of SysV IPC. So far
I have established
that these originated in CBUnix, with a lot of thinking on how to optimize
these around the time that Unix 3.0/4.0/5.0 happened. They did not appear
in Unix 3.0 / SysIII, and from the Unix 4.0 documentation I gather that
it was not included there either.
I am not sure you can make that conclusion, as the 4.0 printed documents
did not include the programmer's manual; instead they gave out the
3.0 manual and there was a list of changes somewhere in the other doc.
Unfortunately, without actual 4.0 sources, it will always be a question.
I have this VERY vague memory that I saw IPC in 4.0, but I could
very easily be wrong... It was over 40 years ago, after all. :-)
4:06 p.m.
New subject: Documents for UNIX Collections
On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 5:42 AM Jonathan Gray <jsg(a)jsg.id.au> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 05:15:52AM -0600,
arnold(a)skeeve.com wrote:
"Release 4.0 was launched from this organization in March. It introduced
new IPC mechanisms"
from pg 39 of Pirzada's thesis
https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/bitstream/10044/1/7942/1/Shamim_Sharfuddin_Pi…
But also "Release 4.2 was launched in February 1982 for both the 3B & the
DEC
machines. It contained improvements to the data communications and
networking
software and more mature IPC" though it goes on to say 4.2 was provisional.
5.0
did have more things from CBUNIX: init and getty.
I've also found this:
https://groups.google.com/g/net.unix/c/-H9x36DMOBQ/m/P_G_s9SJBrgJ
"Eventually, UNIX/TS was augmented to have
many of the features present in CB-UNIX (this was done by Roger Faulkner
at Indian Hill, BTL. This, in turn, became the base for UNIX 4.0, which
was never released externally."
This from a supervisor at Columbus...
Warner
referred to in tuhs/Documentation/Emails/dmr_wkt
Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS <tuhs(a)tuhs.org>
wrote:
> I’m interested in the journey of SysV IPC. So far I have established
> that these originated in CBUnix, with a lot of thinking on how to
optimize
> these around the time that Unix 3.0/4.0/5.0
happened. They did not
appear
in Unix
3.0 / SysIII, and from the Unix 4.0 documentation I gather that
it was not included there either.
I am not sure you can make that conclusion, as the 4.0 printed documents
did not include the programmer's manual; instead they gave out the
3.0 manual and there was a list of changes somewhere in the other doc.
Unfortunately, without actual 4.0 sources, it will always be a question.
I have this VERY vague memory that I saw IPC in 4.0, but I could
very easily be wrong... It was over 40 years ago, after all. :-)
"Other treasures: Shamim Pirzada did most of a PhD thesis on Unix
as an exemplar of software evolution for Imperial College (London)
that (in the part I have) contains a pretty good account of details
of history up to about 1988."
4:37 p.m.
New subject: Documents for UNIX Collections
On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 10:06 AM Warner Losh <imp(a)bsdimp.com> wrote:
On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 5:42 AM Jonathan Gray <jsg(a)jsg.id.au> wrote:
Oh, see also the message from Guy Harris a few messages previous to the one
that opens up with the above link (minor edits by me):
"
doug_gwyn>The UNIX System V IPC was already present in USG UNIX 4.1.
doug_gwyn>(Not related to 4.1BSD.)
For you real UNIX trivia freaks, the USG 4.0 IPC was different
from the USG 4.1 IPC. The original message send/receive system calls sent
to a process ID; they were changed to send to message queues, which had a
32-bit unique ID, instead (which makes more sense, as it permits you to
transparently replace servers).
"
The note is extensive and goes into a lot of other areas related to IPC and
lists names
and references too. In fact the whole thread is a good candidate to be
hoisted from
google groups while we have the chance and placed into the TUHS archive. Is
there
a process for that?
Warner
Warner
On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 05:15:52AM -0600,
arnold(a)skeeve.com wrote:
"Release 4.0 was launched from this organization in March. It introduced
new IPC mechanisms"
from pg 39 of Pirzada's thesis
https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/bitstream/10044/1/7942/1/Shamim_Sharfuddin_Pi…
But also "Release 4.2 was launched in February 1982 for both the 3B & the
DEC
machines. It contained improvements to the data communications and
networking
software and more mature IPC" though it goes on to say 4.2 was
provisional. 5.0
did have more things from CBUNIX: init and getty.
I've also found this:
https://groups.google.com/g/net.unix/c/-H9x36DMOBQ/m/P_G_s9SJBrgJ
"Eventually, UNIX/TS was augmented to have
many of the features present in CB-UNIX (this was done by Roger Faulkner
at Indian Hill, BTL. This, in turn, became the base for UNIX 4.0, which
was never released externally."
This from a supervisor at Columbus...
Paul Ruizendaal via TUHS <tuhs(a)tuhs.org>
wrote:
> I’m interested in the journey of SysV IPC. So far I have established
> that these originated in CBUnix, with a lot of thinking on how to
optimize
> these around the time that Unix 3.0/4.0/5.0
happened. They did not
appear
> in Unix 3.0 / SysIII, and from the Unix 4.0
documentation I gather
that
it was
not included there either.
I am not sure you can make that conclusion, as the 4.0 printed documents
did not include the programmer's manual; instead they gave out the
3.0 manual and there was a list of changes somewhere in the other doc.
Unfortunately, without actual 4.0 sources, it will always be a question.
I have this VERY vague memory that I saw IPC in 4.0, but I could
very easily be wrong... It was over 40 years ago, after all. :-)
referred to in tuhs/Documentation/Emails/dmr_wkt
"Other treasures: Shamim Pirzada did most of a PhD thesis on Unix
as an exemplar of software evolution for Imperial College (London)
that (in the part I have) contains a pretty good account of details
of history up to about 1988."
13 Aug
13 Aug
7:51 p.m.
New subject: Documents for UNIX Collections
Thanks all for those pointers on the lineage of SysV IPC. All highly interesting!
Paul
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participants (4)
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arnold＠skeeve.com -
Jonathan Gray -
Paul Ruizendaal -
Warner Losh