30 Jul
2020
30 Jul
'20
1:47 p.m.
From: Will Senn
can I run Unix on a PDP 11/04?
No, it doesn't have memory management, so not any of the well-known
'stock'
versions (V5/V6/etc).
Two choices, though:
- If you get the V1 that ran on an -11/20 (which is mostly compatible with
the /04 and /05), it should run on an /04. (Not sure what you'd use for mass
storage, on a physical /04, though.) I'm not sure when they dropped the /20 -
I think V4 n(at the latest)? But V2 and V3 are lost.
- There's a 'Unix' for the LSI-11, and with minor changes (the LSI-11
isn't
100% compatible with other MMU-less 11's, but the changes are minor, e.g.
MOS, written in MACRO-11, was conditionalized to run on both the LSI-11
and the -11/20) it should run on an /04.
Noel
30 Jul
30 Jul
2:08 p.m.
New subject: Will pdp 11/04 run unix?
- There's a 'Unix' for the LSI-11, and with minor changes (the LSI-11
isn't
100% compatible with other MMU-less 11's, but the changes are minor, e.g.
MOS, written in MACRO-11, was conditionalized to run on both the LSI-11
and the -11/20) it should run on an /04.
Noel
There’s always MiniUnix. https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/Mini-Unix/
<https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/Mini-Unix/>
We ran that on our MMU-less PDP-11/20s and 11/40 before the LSI-11 was even introduced.
It lacks obviously memory protection, traditional UNIX pipes (they’re simulated by the
shell if I recall), and preemptive scheduling.
4:13 p.m.
New subject: Will pdp 11/04 run unix?
On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 7:49 AM Noel Chiappa <jnc(a)mercury.lcs.mit.edu>
wrote:
- If you get the V1 that ran on an -11/20 (which is
mostly compatible with
the /04 and /05), it should run on an /04. (Not sure what you'd use for
mass
storage, on a physical /04, though.) I'm not sure when they dropped the
/20 -
I think V4 n(at the latest)? But V2 and V3 are lost.
Yes, the reconstructed 1st edition may run (though from dates and such,
it's somewhere between 1st and 2nd edition), though I've no direct
experience with 11/04 hardware, nor ideas on how to bootstrap it onto
appropriate physical media...
I have it in my head that the 4th edition was rewritten for the 11/45 and
removed support for 11/20. I thought I knew why, but could only find part
of the story in the manuals...
There's a strong note in the 4th edition preface that it applies only to
the 'c' version of Unix and the 3rd edition preface has a note saying the
manual doesn't apply to the 11/20 version and to look in the 2nd or even
1st edition manuals for that.
As others have mentioned, Mini-unix and/or LSX might have a shot, but it
might be best characterized as a long shot.
Warner
6 p.m.
New subject: Will pdp 11/04 run unix?
As the author of both LSX and Mini-UNIX, I would suggest that the
LSX source code is a better starting point for the 11/04, especially
if single-user is the target. Mini-UNIX was written to support a
small number of users on the PDP 11/10 without an MMU.
However, I'm not current on what sources are still available.
Heinz
On 7/30/2020 9:13 AM, Warner Losh wrote:
On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 7:49 AM Noel Chiappa
<jnc(a)mercury.lcs.mit.edu
<mailto:jnc@mercury.lcs.mit.edu>> wrote:
- If you get the V1 that ran on an -11/20 (which is mostly
compatible with
the /04 and /05), it should run on an /04. (Not sure what you'd
use for mass
storage, on a physical /04, though.) I'm not sure when they
dropped the /20 -
I think V4 n(at the latest)? But V2 and V3 are lost.
Yes, the reconstructed 1st edition may run (though from dates and
such, it's somewhere between 1st and 2nd edition), though I've no
direct experience with 11/04 hardware, nor ideas on how to bootstrap
it onto appropriate physical media...
I have it in my head that the 4th edition was rewritten for the 11/45
and removed support for 11/20. I thought I knew why, but could only
find part of the story in the manuals...
There's a strong note in the 4th edition preface that it applies only
to the 'c' version of Unix and the 3rd edition preface has a
note saying the manual doesn't apply to the 11/20 version and to look
in the 2nd or even 1st edition manuals for that.
As others have mentioned, Mini-unix and/or LSX might have a shot, but
it might be best characterized as a long shot.
Warner
6:55 p.m.
New subject: Will pdp 11/04 run unix?
On 30/07/20, Noel Chiappa wrote:
- If you get the V1 that ran on an -11/20 (which is
mostly compatible with
the /04 and /05), it should run on an /04. (Not sure what you'd use for mass
storage, on a physical /04, though.) I'm not sure when they dropped the /20 -
I think V4 n(at the latest)? But V2 and V3 are lost.
It looks like v3 was when they forked off 11/45 UNIX. ("The second, or
even the first, edition of this manual is likely to be more appropriate.")
I believe 11/20 UNIX also needs the EAE.
aap
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days inactive
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4 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
-
Angelo Papenhoff -
Heinz Lycklama -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu -
Ronald Natalie -
Warner Losh