30 Jun
2018
30 Jun
'18
11:15 a.m.
Ron Natalie:
My favorite 3B2ism was that the power switch was soft (uncommon then, not so
much now). I seem to recall that if the logged in user wasn't in a
particular group, pushing the power button was a no-op. You didn't have
sufficient privs to operate the power.
====
Surely you mean the current user didn't have sufficent power.
Norman Wilson
Toronto ON
1 Jul
1 Jul
2:17 a.m.
New subject: ATT Hardware
On Saturday, 30 June 2018 at 7:15:07 -0400, Norman Wilson wrote:
Ron Natalie:
My favorite 3B2ism was that the power switch was soft (uncommon then, not so
much now). I seem to recall that if the logged in user wasn't in a
particular group, pushing the power button was a no-op. You didn't have
sufficient privs to operate the power.
====
Surely you mean the current user didn't have sufficent power.
Or was experiencing too much resistance?
Greg
--
Sent from my desktop computer.
Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program
reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA
8:14 p.m.
New subject: ATT Hardware
Puns aside, anyone who didn't consider pulling the plug was probably not
someone who should be bringing the system down.
On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
wrote:
On Saturday, 30 June 2018 at 7:15:07 -0400, Norman
Wilson wrote:
Ron Natalie:
My favorite 3B2ism was that the power switch was soft (uncommon then,
not so
much now). I seem to recall that if the
logged in user wasn't in a
particular group, pushing the power button was a no-op. You didn't
have
sufficient privs to operate the power.
====
Surely you mean the current user didn't have sufficent power.
Or was experiencing too much resistance?
Greg
--
Sent from my desktop computer.
Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program
reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA
2 Jul
2 Jul
12:20 a.m.
New subject: ATT Hardware
No! no! no! The 3b2 was one of the first supermicros to fully integrate power management
with the system. Yanking the cord would be unthinkable mainly because it was
unnecessary. The shutdown script would remove power to the the system once the system
safely went down and buffers were flushed. You could also depress this massive rocket
switch on the side of the unit and it would kick off the powerdown script. It is
noteworthy that the 3b2 power switch was stateless...allowing human and computer to turn
off the power.
Finally, the 3b2 is probably the only system in the world with system diagnostics so in
depth that they were nearly as significant as the operating system. It’s a
telecommunications thing. Interestingly, the color of the 3b2 was similar to a VAX
Brown and White.
On Jul 1, 2018, at 6:24 PM, John P. Linderman
<jpl.jpl@gmail.com<mailto:jpl.jpl@gmail.com>> wrote:
Puns aside, anyone who didn't consider pulling the plug was probably not someone who
should be bringing the system down.
On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey
<grog@lemis.com<mailto:grog@lemis.com>> wrote:
On Saturday, 30 June 2018 at 7:15:07 -0400, Norman Wilson wrote:
Ron Natalie:
My favorite 3B2ism was that the power switch was soft (uncommon then, not so
much now). I seem to recall that if the logged in user wasn't in a
particular group, pushing the power button was a no-op. You didn't have
sufficient privs to operate the power.
====
Surely you mean the current user didn't have sufficent power.
Or was experiencing too much resistance?
Greg
--
Sent from my desktop computer.
Finger grog@lemis.com<mailto:grog@lemis.com> for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program
reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA
12:55 a.m.
New subject: ATT Hardware
So prohibiting someone from pushing a button differed in what way from
allowing them to pull a plug? I can understand there may have been some
difference in state when/if the machine was rebooted. If I just wanted the
machine to cease sucking power, what's the difference? I never wanted that
box to exist, or come back to life, in whatever color.
On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 8:20 PM, William Corcoran <wlc(a)jctaylor.com> wrote:
No! no! no! The 3b2 was one of the first supermicros
to fully integrate
power management with the system. Yanking the cord would be unthinkable
mainly because it was unnecessary. The shutdown script would remove power
to the the system once the system safely went down and buffers were
flushed. You could also depress this massive rocket switch on the side of
the unit and it would kick off the powerdown script. It is noteworthy that
the 3b2 power switch was stateless...allowing human and computer to turn
off the power.
Finally, the 3b2 is probably the only system in the world with system
diagnostics so in depth that they were nearly as significant as the
operating system. It’s a telecommunications thing. Interestingly, the
color of the 3b2 was similar to a VAX Brown and White.
On Jul 1, 2018, at 6:24 PM, John P. Linderman <jpl.jpl(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Puns aside, anyone who didn't consider pulling the plug was probably not
someone who should be bringing the system down.
On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
wrote:
On Saturday, 30 June 2018 at 7:15:07 -0400,
Norman Wilson wrote:
Ron Natalie:
My favorite 3B2ism was that the power switch was soft (uncommon then,
not so
much now). I seem to recall that if the
logged in user wasn't in a
particular group, pushing the power button was a no-op. You didn't
have
sufficient privs to operate the power.
====
Surely you mean the current user didn't have sufficent power.
Or was experiencing too much resistance?
Greg
--
Sent from my desktop computer.
Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program
reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA
3:59 a.m.
New subject: ATT Hardware
It was a safety net designed to prevent operational error. Naturally, there are
limits.
It was a quaint implementation on the 3b2. I think that’s the gist of discussing it
anyway.
However, you can see how the 3b2 designers stressed about a user having to deal with an
operating system that required care in understanding that you can’t just remove power.
Rather, an orderly shutdown were required.
If you want to yank the plug, by all means, have at it. But, I can tell you that I
suspect you are the exact type of user that the 3b2 designers felt they were up against in
designing this obviously over engineered hardware.
Of course, your point is a good one. Especially, since countless UNIX boxes at the time
had nothing more than a good old power switch that truly was akin to yanking the power
cord—-thus, procedures must be followed.
Yet, it’s still cool that the 3b2 has that little integrated power feature that most
fondly remember. (Maybe I am on the wrong channel, this is TUHS, right?)
It might be worth noting, nearly every UNIX box today (even x86 hardware) has some variety
of this power feature today. So, clearly the 3b2 was ahead of its time (along with a
few other vendors)
One last point, I have an original NCR minitower UNIX box. This box had a unique feature
where it’s solid state RAM would be backed up by a battery. The registers were saved.
So, if you yanked out the power cord, the system would pick up right from where it left
off. Of course, all of the terminal users would need to redraw their screens. But, this
box was immune to yanking out the power cord. If you wanted to reboot the kernel, there
is a procedure to start from scratch.
Truly,
Bill Corcoran
On Jul 1, 2018, at 8:55 PM, John P. Linderman
<jpl.jpl@gmail.com<mailto:jpl.jpl@gmail.com>> wrote:
So prohibiting someone from pushing a button differed in what way from allowing them to
pull a plug? I can understand there may have been some difference in state when/if the
machine was rebooted. If I just wanted the machine to cease sucking power, what's the
difference? I never wanted that box to exist, or come back to life, in whatever color.
On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 8:20 PM, William Corcoran
<wlc@jctaylor.com<mailto:wlc@jctaylor.com>> wrote:
No! no! no! The 3b2 was one of the first supermicros to fully integrate power management
with the system. Yanking the cord would be unthinkable mainly because it was
unnecessary. The shutdown script would remove power to the the system once the system
safely went down and buffers were flushed. You could also depress this massive rocket
switch on the side of the unit and it would kick off the powerdown script. It is
noteworthy that the 3b2 power switch was stateless...allowing human and computer to turn
off the power.
Finally, the 3b2 is probably the only system in the world with system diagnostics so in
depth that they were nearly as significant as the operating system. It’s a
telecommunications thing. Interestingly, the color of the 3b2 was similar to a VAX
Brown and White.
On Jul 1, 2018, at 6:24 PM, John P. Linderman
<jpl.jpl@gmail.com<mailto:jpl.jpl@gmail.com>> wrote:
Puns aside, anyone who didn't consider pulling the plug was probably not someone who
should be bringing the system down.
On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey
<grog@lemis.com<mailto:grog@lemis.com>> wrote:
On Saturday, 30 June 2018 at 7:15:07 -0400, Norman Wilson wrote:
Ron Natalie:
My favorite 3B2ism was that the power switch was soft (uncommon then, not so
much now). I seem to recall that if the logged in user wasn't in a
particular group, pushing the power button was a no-op. You didn't have
sufficient privs to operate the power.
====
Surely you mean the current user didn't have sufficent power.
Or was experiencing too much resistance?
Greg
--
Sent from my desktop computer.
Finger grog@lemis.com<mailto:grog@lemis.com> for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program
reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA
10:13 a.m.
New subject: ATT Hardware
They were also offered with the Alarm Interface Circuit card and
Remote Management Package, soft off might have been required as part
of those design considerations for remote management.
On Sun, Jul 1, 2018 at 5:20 PM, William Corcoran <wlc(a)jctaylor.com> wrote:
No! no! no! The 3b2 was one of the first supermicros
to fully integrate
power management with the system. Yanking the cord would be unthinkable
mainly because it was unnecessary. The shutdown script would remove power
to the the system once the system safely went down and buffers were flushed.
You could also depress this massive rocket switch on the side of the unit
and it would kick off the powerdown script. It is noteworthy that the 3b2
power switch was stateless...allowing human and computer to turn off the
power.
Finally, the 3b2 is probably the only system in the world with system
diagnostics so in depth that they were nearly as significant as the
operating system. It’s a telecommunications thing. Interestingly, the
color of the 3b2 was similar to a VAX Brown and White.
On Jul 1, 2018, at 6:24 PM, John P. Linderman <jpl.jpl(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Puns aside, anyone who didn't consider pulling the plug was probably not
someone who should be bringing the system down.
On Sat, Jun 30, 2018 at 10:17 PM, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
wrote:
On Saturday, 30 June 2018 at 7:15:07 -0400, Norman Wilson wrote:
Ron Natalie:
My favorite 3B2ism was that the power switch was soft (uncommon then,
not so
much now). I seem to recall that if the logged in user wasn't in a
particular group, pushing the power button was a no-op. You didn't
have
sufficient privs to operate the power.
====
Surely you mean the current user didn't have sufficent power.
Or was experiencing too much resistance?
Greg
--
Sent from my desktop computer.
Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key.
See complete headers for address and phone numbers.
This message is digitally signed. If your Microsoft mail program
reports problems, please read http://lemis.com/broken-MUA 
3 Jul
3 Jul
1:02 a.m.
New subject: ATT Hardware
On Sun, 1 Jul 2018, John P. Linderman wrote:
Puns aside, anyone who didn't consider pulling
the plug was probably not
someone who should be bringing the system down.
Eggsactly, and you beat me to it: anyone not prepared to "pull the plug"
on equipment should not be in charge of it.
-- Dave VK2KFU, former Station Engineer of VK2WI
2124
days inactive
2127
days old
7 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
Dave Horsfall -
Greg 'groggy' Lehey -
John P. Linderman -
Kevin Bowling -
Norman Wilson -
William Corcoran