9 Apr
2021
9 Apr
'21
5:31 a.m.
Is there any solid info on the Stanford SUN boards? I just know the SUN-1
was based around them, but they aren't the same thing? And apparently cisco
used them as well but 'borrowed' someone's RTOS design as the basis for
IOS?
There was some lawsuit and Stanford got cisco network gear for years for
free but they couldn't take stock for some reason?
I see more and more of these CP/M SBC's on ebay/online and it seems odd that
there is no 'DIY' SUN boards... Or were they not all that open, hence why
they kind of disappeared?
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Steinhart
To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
Sent: 4/8/21 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: [TUHS] PC Unix
Larry McVoy writes:
On Thu, Apr 08, 2021 at 12:18:04AM +0200, Thomas
Paulsen wrote:
> >From: John Gilmore <gnu(a)toad.com>
> >Sun was making 68000-based systems in 1981, before the IBM PC was
created.
>
> Sun was founded on February 24, 1982. The Sun-1 was launched in May
1982.
John may be sort of right, I bet avb was building 68k machines at
Stanford before SUN was founded. Sun stood for Stanford University
Network I believe.
--lm
Larry is correct. I remember visiting a friend of mind, Gary Newman,
who was working at Lucasfilm in '81. He showed me a bunch of stuff
that they were doing on Stanford University Network boards.
Full disclosure, it was Gary and Paul Rubinfeld who ended up at DEC
and I believe was the architect for the microVax who told me about
the explorer scout post at BTL which is how I met Heinz.
Jon
9 Apr
9 Apr
6:13 a.m.
New subject: SUN (Stanford University Network) was PC Unix
Jason Stevens writes:
Is there any solid info on the Stanford SUN boards? I
just know the SUN-1
was based around them, but they aren't the same thing? And apparently cisco
used them as well but 'borrowed' someone's RTOS design as the basis for
IOS?
There was some lawsuit and Stanford got cisco network gear for years for
free but they couldn't take stock for some reason?
I see more and more of these CP/M SBC's on ebay/online and it seems odd that
there is no 'DIY' SUN boards... Or were they not all that open, hence why
they kind of disappeared?
I don't know if Tom Duff was at Lucasfilm at that time but if we was he
would likely know.
Jon
6:34 a.m.
New subject: SUN (Stanford University Network) was PC Unix
There's a story I've heard about the SUN-1 board that I'd love to have
confirmed, etc. Basically, it says that Stanford wrote a letter saying that they
didn't make any claims on Andy's work (because he was only an undergraduate, so
how important could it be, anyway...).
-r
3:08 p.m.
New subject: SUN (Stanford University Network) was PC Unix
On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 2:35 AM Rich Morin <rdm(a)cfcl.com> wrote:
There's a story I've heard about the SUN-1
board that I'd love to have
confirmed, etc. Basically, it says that Stanford wrote a letter saying
that they didn't make any claims on Andy's work (because he was only an
undergraduate, so how important could it be, anyway...).
Sounds a bit far featured since he did his undergrad at CMU ;-)
What Andy designed would (the best I can tell) have started as the 3rd
generation processor board for the CMU's distributed front-end (n-th
generation of the CMU front end system). The CMU terminal front end was
originally a single 11/20 with a lot of ASLI's (asynchronous line
interfaces) in them with a parallel connection to the PDP-10s or other
larger hosts. The problem was it did not scale and when then Unix
machines began to replicate around campus, having a terminal on more than
one host was needed, so the distributed front-end was created (by Jim Teter
I think). But we started to allow the separated 11/20s to talk to each
other. But when the LSI-11s and the Alto's from Xerox appeared a more
network-based distributed front-end was built using an LSI-11 chassis. We
used an early TCP draft for the protocols and was my introduction to that
protocol, as I was part of the crew that switched it to be a Multbus based
system and then an Intel 8085 and a Xerox 3M interface, plus an n-port
serial board because the LSI-1 based systems were fairly expensive. I've
forgotten now, but we might have had a Z80 based processor at some point,
as Phil Karn I know had a Z80 C compiler we were using too and the 8085
stuff was assembler if I remember right.
IIRC recall somebody at Stanford (Bill Yeager ??maybe??) was doing
something similar to the LSI-11 system we were working. How much was
Stanford first before CMU I can not say. The 11/20 FE did predate it all,
but the two LSI-11s were sort of parallel efforts. I Also thought MIT was
doing something ChaosNet around the same time, Noah can fill you in more I
suspect.
About 2 years later, Andy built a simple 68000 processor [using SUDS -
which was what CMU used for Designs in those days] for the multibus version
of the DFE, and at some point, somebody (maybe Andy) switched it to an
Intel Ethernet board. None of the Multibus or LSI-11 based DFE's had an
MMU associated with them. Andy did take took his 68000 CPU design with him
to Stanford when he was a grad student and famously redid it adding an MMU
and a lot of other features [i.e. CMU board != Stanford Board].
By this time the CMU 'SPICE' proposal had appeared and the idea of the
"3M"
workstation was being batted around. The Stanford Univerity Network
Terminal was created that took his reimagined CPU, the raster display, and
other features (I think he was able to get the ethernet on the CPU board by
then) -- note it still is using a Multibus-I was the backplane and memory
was on a separate board.
Stanford licensed the SUN-1 design to a number of firms and while the IP
was generally available it was licensed. Cisco made their first router
with it, which had a basic architecture that is not unlike the CMU-DFE.
Imagin used them for their laser printers. VLSI Technologies would be
found (and later renamed SUN) to make them
ᐧ
7:22 a.m.
New subject: SUN (Stanford University Network) was PC Unix
Jason Stevens wrote:
Is there any solid info on the Stanford SUN boards?
I believe SAIL PDP-10 backup tapes have a large amount of files about
the Stanford SUN project. But due to privacy concerns it would not be
easy to make the information public. Maybe if there were a concerted
effort to contact Vaughan Pratt, Andy Bechtolsheim, et al, and ask their
permission.
9:29 a.m.
New subject: SUN (Stanford University Network) was PC Unix
Jason Stevens wrote:
> Is there any solid info on the Stanford SUN boards?
July 1979. This seems to hint at future graphical workstations,
but the concept has not settled.
https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:yj974vz9257/yj974vz9257.pdf
March 1980. The SUN workstation seems to be designed. However, it's a
multi user machine with up to 16 displays, rather than a single user
workstation.
https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:gg867qx3134/gg867qx3134.pdf
January 1981. Still a work in progress. Number of display is down
to two for a "VLSI workstation", or eight for a "terminal cluster".
https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:yx961bt1370/yx961bt1370.pdf
March 1982. This is probably the final design with a single 1024x800
display.
http://i.stanford.edu/pub/cstr/reports/csl/tr/82/229/CSL-TR-82-229.pdf
5:02 p.m.
New subject: SUN (Stanford University Network) was PC Unix
On 4/9/21 12:22 AM, Lars Brinkhoff wrote:
Jason Stevens wrote:
All of the schematics and prom dumps of the Stanford version are on bitsavers,
CPU, 3m Ethernet, and frame buffer. The VLSI Systems design sold by Andy before
Sun was founded is the original SUN design. The 3meg ethernet was used at PARC
for the Dicentra router, I don't know if any third parties licensed the frame
buffer, maybe Lucasfilm.
Stanford extended the original design for campus routers with more memory. There was
an example of that board in a display case in the Gates building before the
remodeling started.
If you were going after permission, it would also be good to get SAIL's version
of SUDS and if they have it the LLNL S1 designs and software.
Is there any solid info on the Stanford SUN
boards?
I believe SAIL PDP-10 backup tapes have a large amount of files about
the Stanford SUN project. But due to privacy concerns it would not be
easy to make the information public. Maybe if there were a concerted
effort to contact Vaughan Pratt, Andy Bechtolsheim, et al, and ask their
permission.
6:37 p.m.
New subject: SUN (Stanford University Network) was PC Unix
Al Kossow wrote:
If you were going after permission, it would also be
good to get
SAIL's version of SUDS and if they have it the LLNL S1 designs and
software.
Yes, those would also be worth persuing. Looks like a big chunk of S1
design files are in there. But the LLNL WAITS system split off from the
mothership at some point, so much of the S1 work may not have been
present on the SAIL PDP-10.
10:12 a.m.
New subject: SUN (Stanford University Network) was PC Unix
On 2021-04-09 01:31, Jason Stevens wrote:
I see more and more of these CP/M SBC's on
ebay/online and it seems odd that
there is no 'DIY' SUN boards... Or were they not all that open, hence why
they kind of disappeared?
You're comparing a z80 SBC running CP/M? Or are you thinking of 68000 SBCs?
11:13 a.m.
New subject: SUN (Stanford University Network) was PC Unix
On 09/04/2021 11:12, emanuel stiebler wrote:
You're comparing a z80 SBC running CP/M? Or are
you thinking of 68000 SBCs?
I've never seen a 68k SBC. Have I missed out something along the way?
Is there a community for 68k SBC's?
Kind regards,
Andrew
5:22 p.m.
New subject: SUN (Stanford University Network) was PC Unix
[I see that Dan C. has already covered some of this.]
On Fri, Apr 9, 2021, at 6:13 AM, U'll Be King of the Stars wrote:
I've never seen a 68k SBC. Have I missed out
something along the way?
Is there a community for 68k SBC's?
There is a community of folks making 'retro-brew' computers, which are new
home-brew board designs based around older CPUs. While Z80/Z180 based designs are the most
popular, there are a smattering of 68K retro-brews. The main places for discussions are
https://groups.google.com/g/retro-comp and
https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/forum/index.php. The availability of very cheap PCBs
from China (2 layers, 10cm x 10cm, $3 per board shipped, shipped in a week) and open
source PCB design software like KiCad seems to have increase the amount of this kind of
activity over the past few years.
Hardware-wise, most of these are 68000's with some ROM (around 512K is typical), some
SRAM (512K to 1 MB), a UART of some kind, and perhaps some storage either SDCard via SPI
or CompactFlash via an IDE port. I think only the Kiwi68K supports any type of video,
using a vintage TI video chip.
Here are a few links to 68K designs:
ECB Mini-68K CPU Card (68008 based and not a single board) -
https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/doku.php?id=boards:ecb:mini-68k:start
ECB KISS-68030: (68030 based and not a single board) -
https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/doku.php?id=boards:ecb:kiss-68030:start
The Rosco M68K: https://rosco-m68k.com
The Tobster 030 -
https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/doku.php?id=builderpages:tobster:t030
Jeff Tranter's 68000 -
http://jefftranter.blogspot.com/2017/01/building-68000-single-board-compute…
Plasmo's Tiny68K -
https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/doku.php?id=boards:sbc:tiny68k:tiny68k_r…
Plasmo's CB030 -
https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/doku.php?id=builderpages:plasmo:cb030
Kiwi68K - https://www.ist-schlau.de
All these designs are open source. The Rosco one is available as a kit on Tindie.com. (I
have no affiliation.) I've got my own 68008 based board that I'm working on, but
haven't published anything about it.
--
I think the main reason the 68K is not more popular in the retro-brew/DIY community is
lack of software. On the Z80 side, once you've built a board there is a ton of
CP/M-80 software available to run. For 68K boards, the usual software progression is a ROM
monitor, then maybe porting of Lee Davison's EhBASIC, then CP/M-68K. CP/M-68K has
very little software available, and what is available are microEmacs and a few compilers
(K&R C, BASIC and Pascal). That's about it for 68Ks without an MMU. A couple of
the boards above that have 68030 do have Linux running on them. There's also the
perception that Z80s have an easier hardware interface, but I'm not convinced
that's true.
-- Rob
ECB Mini-68k CPU Card
I should disclaim that some of the things I'm about to link to are kits sold on
Tindie.com. I have no affiliation with the creators, other than being a fan of their work.
8:16 p.m.
New subject: SUN (Stanford University Network) was PC Unix
When I was at SUN, our group’s print server was a SUN-1...
Joe McGuckin
ViaNet Communications
joe(a)via.net
650-207-0372 cell
650-213-1302 office
650-969-2124 fax
On Apr 9, 2021, at 10:22 AM, Rob Gowin
<robg(a)fastmail.com> wrote:
[I see that Dan C. has already covered some of this.]
On Fri, Apr 9, 2021, at 6:13 AM, U'll Be King of the Stars wrote:
I've never seen a 68k SBC. Have I missed
out something along the way?
Is there a community for 68k SBC's?
There is a community of folks making 'retro-brew' computers, which are new
home-brew board designs based around older CPUs. While Z80/Z180 based designs are the most
popular, there are a smattering of 68K retro-brews. The main places for discussions are
https://groups.google.com/g/retro-comp <https://groups.google.com/g/retro-comp> and
https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/forum/index.php
<https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/forum/index.php>. The availability of very cheap
PCBs from China (2 layers, 10cm x 10cm, $3 per board shipped, shipped in a week) and open
source PCB design software like KiCad seems to have increase the amount of this kind of
activity over the past few years.
Hardware-wise, most of these are 68000's with some ROM (around 512K is typical),
some SRAM (512K to 1 MB), a UART of some kind, and perhaps some storage either SDCard via
SPI or CompactFlash via an IDE port. I think only the Kiwi68K supports any type of video,
using a vintage TI video chip.
Here are a few links to 68K designs:
ECB Mini-68K CPU Card (68008 based and not a single board) -
https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/doku.php?id=boards:ecb:mini-68k:start
<https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/doku.php?id=boards:ecb:mini-68k:start>
ECB KISS-68030: (68030 based and not a single board) -
https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/doku.php?id=boards:ecb:kiss-68030:start
<https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/doku.php?id=boards:ecb:kiss-68030:start>
The Rosco M68K: https://rosco-m68k.com <https://rosco-m68k.com/>
The Tobster 030 -
https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/doku.php?id=builderpages:tobster:t030
<https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/doku.php?id=builderpages:tobster:t030>
Jeff Tranter's 68000 -
http://jefftranter.blogspot.com/2017/01/building-68000-single-board-compute…
<http://jefftranter.blogspot.com/2017/01/building-68000-single-board-computer_14.html>
Plasmo's Tiny68K -
https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/doku.php?id=boards:sbc:tiny68k:tiny68k_r…
<https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/doku.php?id=boards:sbc:tiny68k:tiny68k_rev2>
Plasmo's CB030 -
https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/doku.php?id=builderpages:plasmo:cb030
<https://www.retrobrewcomputers.org/doku.php?id=builderpages:plasmo:cb030>
Kiwi68K - https://www.ist-schlau.de <https://www.ist-schlau.de/>
All these designs are open source. The Rosco one is available as a kit on Tindie.com
<http://tindie.com/>. (I have no affiliation.) I've got my own 68008 based
board that I'm working on, but haven't published anything about it.
--
I think the main reason the 68K is not more popular in the retro-brew/DIY community is
lack of software. On the Z80 side, once you've built a board there is a ton of
CP/M-80 software available to run. For 68K boards, the usual software progression is a ROM
monitor, then maybe porting of Lee Davison's EhBASIC, then CP/M-68K. CP/M-68K has
very little software available, and what is available are microEmacs and a few compilers
(K&R C, BASIC and Pascal). That's about it for 68Ks without an MMU. A couple of
the boards above that have 68030 do have Linux running on them. There's also the
perception that Z80s have an easier hardware interface, but I'm not convinced
that's true.
-- Rob
ECB Mini-68k CPU Card
I should disclaim that some of the things I'm about to link to are kits sold on
Tindie.com <http://tindie.com/>. I have no affiliation with the creators, other than
being a fan of their work. 
10 Apr
10 Apr
2:22 a.m.
New subject: SUN (Stanford University Network) was PC Unix
On Fri, 9 Apr 2021, U'll Be King of the Stars wrote:
I've never seen a 68k SBC. Have I missed out
something along the way?
Is there a community for 68k SBC's?
May I introduce you to the Aussie-designed Applix 1616? Not a strict SBC
(the disk controller was a separate card):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Applix_1616
There's sort of a mailing list for its users, but it grew to become a
tech-head list with an amazing amount of expertise:
https://www.object-craft.com.au/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/applix-l
Disclaimer: I'm a regular poster, and I personally know the list owner
(and a lot of the contributors).
-- Dave
9 Apr
9 Apr
2:08 p.m.
New subject: SUN (Stanford University Network) was PC Unix
Prior to Sun, Andy had a company called VLSI Technology, Inc. which
licensed SUN designs to 5-10 companies, including Forward Technology and
CoData, IIRC. The SUN IPR effectively belonged to Andy, but I don't know
what kind of legal arrangement he had with Stanford. But the design was
not generally public, and relied on CAD tools only extant on the Stanford
PDP-10. Cisco did start with the SUN-1 processor, though whether they got
it from Andy or direct from Stanford is not known to me. When Cisco
started (1984), the Sun-1 was long dead already at Sun.
After both Sun and Cisco, Stanford got serious about holding on to IPR.
On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 10:12 PM Jason Stevens <
jsteve(a)superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote:
Is there any solid info on the Stanford SUN boards? I
just know the SUN-1
was based around them, but they aren't the same thing? And apparently
cisco
used them as well but 'borrowed' someone's RTOS design as the basis for
IOS?
There was some lawsuit and Stanford got cisco network gear for years for
free but they couldn't take stock for some reason?
I see more and more of these CP/M SBC's on ebay/online and it seems odd
that
there is no 'DIY' SUN boards... Or were they not all that open, hence why
they kind of disappeared?
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Steinhart
To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
Sent: 4/8/21 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: [TUHS] PC Unix
Larry McVoy writes:
--
- Tom
On Thu, Apr 08, 2021 at 12:18:04AM +0200, Thomas
Paulsen wrote:
> >From: John Gilmore <gnu(a)toad.com>
> >Sun was making 68000-based systems in 1981, before the IBM PC was
created.
>
> Sun was founded on February 24, 1982. The Sun-1 was launched in May
1982.
John may be sort of right, I bet avb was building 68k machines at
Stanford before SUN was founded. Sun stood for Stanford University
Network I believe.
--lm
Larry is correct. I remember visiting a friend of mind, Gary Newman,
who was working at Lucasfilm in '81. He showed me a bunch of stuff
that they were doing on Stanford University Network boards.
Full disclosure, it was Gary and Paul Rubinfeld who ended up at DEC
and I believe was the architect for the microVax who told me about
the explorer scout post at BTL which is how I met Heinz.
Jon
2:23 p.m.
New subject: SUN (Stanford University Network) was PC Unix
Fun trivia fact, at least until the mid 90's, the Stanford University
Bookstore still had SPARCstations as the machine they sold to students.
On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 10:10 AM Tom Lyon <pugs(a)ieee.org> wrote:
Prior to Sun, Andy had a company called VLSI
Technology, Inc. which
licensed SUN designs to 5-10 companies, including Forward Technology and
CoData, IIRC. The SUN IPR effectively belonged to Andy, but I don't know
what kind of legal arrangement he had with Stanford. But the design was
not generally public, and relied on CAD tools only extant on the Stanford
PDP-10. Cisco did start with the SUN-1 processor, though whether they got
it from Andy or direct from Stanford is not known to me. When Cisco
started (1984), the Sun-1 was long dead already at Sun.
After both Sun and Cisco, Stanford got serious about holding on to IPR.
On Thu, Apr 8, 2021 at 10:12 PM Jason Stevens <
jsteve(a)superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote:
Is there any solid info on the Stanford SUN
boards? I just know the SUN-1
was based around them, but they aren't the same thing? And apparently
cisco
used them as well but 'borrowed' someone's RTOS design as the basis for
IOS?
There was some lawsuit and Stanford got cisco network gear for years for
free but they couldn't take stock for some reason?
I see more and more of these CP/M SBC's on ebay/online and it seems odd
that
there is no 'DIY' SUN boards... Or were they not all that open, hence why
they kind of disappeared?
-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Steinhart
To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org
Sent: 4/8/21 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: [TUHS] PC Unix
Larry McVoy writes:
--
- Tom
On Thu, Apr 08, 2021 at 12:18:04AM +0200, Thomas
Paulsen wrote:
> >From: John Gilmore <gnu(a)toad.com>
> >Sun was making 68000-based systems in 1981, before the IBM PC was
created.
>
> Sun was founded on February 24, 1982. The Sun-1 was launched in May
1982.
John may be sort of right, I bet avb was building 68k machines at
Stanford before SUN was founded. Sun stood for Stanford University
Network I believe.
--lm
Larry is correct. I remember visiting a friend of mind, Gary Newman,
who was working at Lucasfilm in '81. He showed me a bunch of stuff
that they were doing on Stanford University Network boards.
Full disclosure, it was Gary and Paul Rubinfeld who ended up at DEC
and I believe was the architect for the microVax who told me about
the explorer scout post at BTL which is how I met Heinz.
Jon
3:11 p.m.
New subject: SUN (Stanford University Network) was PC Unix
On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 10:10 AM Tom Lyon <pugs(a)ieee.org> wrote:
Prior to Sun, Andy had a company called VLSI
Technology, Inc. which
licensed SUN designs to 5-10 companies, including Forward Technology and
CoData, IIRC. The SUN IPR effectively belonged to Andy, but I don't know
what kind of legal arrangement he had with Stanford. But the design was
not generally public, and relied on CAD tools only extant on the Stanford
PDP-10. Cisco did start with the SUN-1 processor, though whether they got
it from Andy or direct from Stanford is not known to me. When Cisco
started (1984), the Sun-1 was long dead already at Sun.
Bits passing in the night -- this very much is what I remember, expereinced.
ᐧ
8:02 p.m.
New subject: SUN (Stanford University Network) was PC Unix
I’ve done a fair amount of research on Sun 1’s since I have one ( and it has one of the
original 68k motherboards with the original proms ). It’s on my list to create a Sun 1
registry along the lines of the Apple 1 registry. (https://www.apple1registry.com/)
Right now, I can positively identify 24 machines that still exist. Odd serial numbering
makes it very hard to know exactly how many they made.
Cisco was sued by Stanford over the Sun 1. From what I read, they made off with some
Stanford property ( SW and HW ). Wikipedia mentions this ( and I have some supporting
documents as well ). They ended up licensing from Stanford as part of the settlement.
From what I’ve gathered VLSI licensed the design from Stanford not Andy directly. However
the only produced a few machines and Andy wasn’t all that happy with that. That was one of
the impetus is to getting sun formed and licensing the same design. I also believe
another company ( or 2 )licensed the design but either didn’t produce any or very very few
machines.
You can tell a difference between VLSI boards and the Sun Microsystems boards because the
SUN is all capitalized on the VLSI boards ( and is Sun on the others ). At least on the
few I’ve seen pictures of.
The design was also licensed to SGI — I’ve seen a prototype SGI board that’s the same
thing with a larger PCB to allow some extensions.
And the original CPU boards didn’t have an MMU. They could only run Sun OS up to 0.9, I
believe was the version. When Bill Joy got there, again from what I’ve gathered, he wanted
to bring more of the BSD code over and they had to change the system board. This is why
you see the Sun 1/150 model number ( as an upgrade to the original Sun 1/100 designation
). The rack mounted Sun 1/120 was changed to the 1/170. The same upgraded CPU board was
used in the Sun 2/120 at least initially.
The original Sun OS wasn’t BSD based. It was a V32 variant I believe. And the original
CPU boards were returned to Sun, I believe as part of the upgrade from the 1/100 to the
1/150. ( Given people had just paid $10,000 for a machine having to replace the entire
machine would’ve been bad from a customer perspective). Sun did board upgrade trade ups
after this ( I worked at a company and we purchased an upgrade to upgrade a Sun 3/140 to a
Sun 3/110 — the upgrade consisted of a CPU board swap and a different badge for the box )
Sun then, from when I can tell, sold the original CPU boards to a German company that was
producing a V32 system. They changed out the PROMs but you can see the Sun logo and part
numbers on the boards
I could go on and on about this topic 🙂
A Sun 1 was a “bucket list” machine for me - and I am still happy that some friends were
willing to take a 17 hour road trip from Atlanta to Minnesota to pick mine up. 🙂
After unparking the drive heads it booted up, first try ( I was only willing to try that
without a bunch of testing work because I have some spare power supplies and a couple
plastic tubs of multi bus boards that came with it 🙂)
Earl
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 9, 2021, at 11:13 AM, Clem Cole
<clemc(a)ccc.com> wrote:
On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 10:10 AM Tom Lyon
<pugs(a)ieee.org> wrote:
Prior to Sun, Andy had a company called VLSI Technology, Inc. which licensed SUN designs
to 5-10 companies, including Forward Technology and CoData, IIRC. The SUN IPR effectively
belonged to Andy, but I don't know what kind of legal arrangement he had with
Stanford. But the design was not generally public, and relied on CAD tools only extant
on the Stanford PDP-10. Cisco did start with the SUN-1 processor, though whether they got
it from Andy or direct from Stanford is not known to me. When Cisco started (1984), the
Sun-1 was long dead already at Sun.
Bits passing in the night -- this very much is
what I remember, expereinced.
ᐧ
8:08 p.m.
New subject: SUN (Stanford University Network) was PC Unix
On 4/9/21 1:02 PM, Earl Baugh wrote:
And the original CPU boards didn’t have an MMU.
wrong
They didn't have a 68010 capable of recovering from page faults
The original unix shipped on Sun 1's was a Unisoft port. The same
one sold by several other companies that sold the original Sun CPU
design.l
8:46 p.m.
New subject: SUN (Stanford University Network) was PC Unix
On Fri, Apr 9, 2021 at 4:08 PM Al Kossow <aek(a)bitsavers.org> wrote:
On 4/9/21 1:02 PM, Earl Baugh wrote:
Right on both counts - his base/limit MMU even had a small PID/Context
register which was pretty slick at the time. The MMU I created with Roger
Bates for the Tektronix Magonia was not that smart and when I first saw it
I did a face plant -- why didn't I think of that.
ᐧ
And the original CPU boards didn’t have an MMU.
wrong
They didn't have a 68010 capable of recovering from page faults
The original unix shipped on Sun 1's was a Unisoft port. The same
one sold by several other companies that sold the original Sun CPU
design.l
10 Apr
10 Apr
1:30 a.m.
New subject: SUN (Stanford University Network) was PC Unix
Thanks for clarifying that!! I should have said “I believe it might not have had. I wasn’t
quite sure what the problem was which caused the issue. I had in my notes that something
would prevent implementing virtual memory ( and that the person thought it might be a
missing MMU ). I should have relayed that more accurately. Always appreciate
clarifying and better info.
I’ll also add the Ubisoft note. I have some copies of a few of the earlier releases but I
don’t think the tar files have a company name on them. I’ve not unpacked them yet.
Does anyone have any source that has a better “how many Sun 1’s were made” number? I have
a few sources that say “maybe 300” and “maybe 400” and “maybe 600”. Obviously that’s not
very exact. :-) The serial numbers bounce around ( from the units I’ve identified ) and
it’s not clear they started at 1... some info says there was some arbitrary number that
they started at. And that chunks of numbers might have been skipped. I’ve just not been
able to find a more definitive or more trustworthy source.
( though I haven’t seen if old stock info filings might have more info - but I’m thinking
those would have been after the fact, time wise )
Earl
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 9, 2021, at 4:08 PM, Al Kossow
<aek(a)bitsavers.org> wrote:
On 4/9/21 1:02 PM, Earl Baugh wrote:
And the original CPU boards didn’t have an MMU.
wrong
They didn't have a 68010 capable of recovering from page faults
The original unix shipped on Sun 1's was a Unisoft port. The same
one sold by several other companies that sold the original Sun CPU
design.l
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19 comments
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participants (14)
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Al Kossow -
Clem Cole -
Dave Horsfall -
Earl Baugh -
emanuel stiebler -
Jason Stevens -
Jim Geist -
joe mcguckin -
Jon Steinhart -
Lars Brinkhoff -
Rich Morin -
Rob Gowin -
Tom Lyon -
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