Apropos of nothing, I've noticed there are a handful of systems charlatans that fast talk, relish in condencention, and make lame humor to try to appeal to the unlearned (because systems has become fairly esoteric in the expanding industry) frequenting the conference tracks. I guess everyone is supposed to be impressed. Cool. IMO not worth this list's time. On Sat, Jan 18, 2020 at 1:35 PM Steffen Nurpmeso <steffen(a)sdaoden.eu> wrote:

Hello Kathry. Kathryn Spiers wrote in <CAGM9nhRPfZA2s17ociJfUTyq6WGt1rsqq=796xGynRD9c3\ bZbg(a)mail.gmail.com&gt;gt;: |On Sat, Jan 18, 2020, 12:35 Steffen Nurpmeso &lt;[1]steffen(a)sdaoden.eu[/1]&gt; \ |wrote: | | [1] mailto:steffen@sdaoden.eu | ||Rich Morin wrote in &lt;[2]5A5107E4-06AD-4C2B-B590-15C17B301D44(a)cfcl.com[/2\ ||]>: || |FWIW, I found this talk to be quite amusing and interesting. || | || |"What UNIX Cost Us" - Benno Rice (LCA 2020) || |[3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-IWMbJXoLM[/3] | ||That is the one who mutilated the FreeBSD fortune program no? ||(Despite it saying | ||  The potentially offensive fortunes are installed by default on FreeBSD ||  systems.  If you're absolutely, *positively*, without-a-shadow-of-a-\ ||doubt ||  sure that your user community goes berzerk/sues your pants off/drops \ ||dead ||  upon reading one of them, edit the Makefile in the subdirectory \ ||datfiles, ||  and do "make all install".) | ||Nothing but a hollow lie ever since! ... |Or you could remove the offensive fortunes and make the default more \ |friendly for everyone... | |Probably best not to re-litigate that change on this thread though. Maybe the latter. But for the former. A citation is a citation, and whereas you can clean your house, with huge amounts of desinfection and insecticides, you could claim but i promise it is not clean, and never will be, yes, in fact you will not even stay alive without a tremendous amount of bacteria and more inside of you, and on your surface. But you do end up in a deserted and deadly place. So you remove citations of Hitler which are prominently marked as Hitler citations, because you claim that is less offensive and makes the world a smoothie place, but i do not think so. In the thread by then i think i said something like "back in the 70s people had the capability to see things in a context", you know, and if _i_ see a Hitler citation, then i, not only but also because i am German, put that in a tremendous, let me say in a monstrous context. And it is plain, dear Lady, that the demon is not gone, it is in almost each and everyone. And in _my_ opinion, the "cleaning" that has been done is nothing but a trivialisation, which goes alongside a common flattening that happens in public discourse in general. This is nothing new, and people sang about "shiny happy people" decades ago, and have by far not been the first which did. If i recall correctly, the actual argument on the removal, which if i recall happened "just like that", without discussion or that issue tracker that FreeBSD now uses, was because of a Hitler citation on women. If i recall correctly it was in turn a citation which revealed that Hitler did not understand Nietzsche correctly. Maybe i understand Nietzsche false. Nietzsche also sings and dances alongside the road that Richard Wagner claimed some decades before Nietzsches book we are talking about. Hitler also was impressed by Wagner's art and saying, yet, did he understand it, really? So we are now about enter the space of culture, philosophy and religion, the human being and its way of self-organization, about the necessity of self-reflection, as called for, and named, by the mentioned. Will you ever be able to develop self-reflection without a context, dear Lady, i am asking? Off-topic, whereas i blame Hitler, and the endless shame that comes alongside -- and today in a week is the 75th anniversary of the rescue, of the remains, of Auschwitz --, the older i get, the less i can blame my forefathers desires. I can stand this ground, and it is good that after WWII the winners acted more wise and reflected than after WWI. And i thought it was Churchill, but i think it has been John F. Kennedy who said ~"either mankind will put an end on war, or war will put an end on mankind". Citations have been placed in a Unix distribution, to come back to the topic. Decades ago. I do not think it was a giggling funny old man who put them there, but even a giggling funny old man has decades of life to look onto. I who approach my 50ies in a not too distant future (if i am lucky) have already seen dozens of dirty wars, thousands of lies, and aggressively put false contexts which are not lies yet are lies indeed, and millions and millions of terrible deaths, and maybe-death-would-have-been-better's, too. I personally do not think this gets better if the public discourse becomes even more superficial or even becomes the total farce of misinformation as opposed to slight censorship, which happens in the western world even without official propaganda, which i hate to the bottom of my heart. But i am not Mr. Clean, the falsely understood. My only concern on the MeToo that i hate, is that the Suffragettes get finally blown away because those who came up short wanted to have a whole evening on Netflix or the BBC (nice neighbours for sure), exclusively. I have not and never had problems with strong women, they always existed, and my very personal point of view is in fact that today we have a lot less of strong women with personality than when i was young. And ever and ever again i read and see stories of strong women from more than hundred years ago, when Germany indeed was a source of science, culture and beauty, too. I cannot do anything against people who read the bible as an operator's guide, nor mental hedgehoppers which do not get Nietzsche nor Wagner right, but only Might and Money. The problem seems to be that these people govern the world. No, the sticky and greasy cloud cover of misinformation and superficiality sometimes has to be torn open, and i admire that the *BSD fortune program took the opportunity to burst in the focused and selfish view that most people, me included, have on a day by day base. And how often do i myself become conscious of something that i did not understand first, take the line Wagner .. Nietzsche, .. and the incapable brain which did not get it thereafter .. and has been lifted to responsibility nonetheless! (Just a few weeks ago my eyes were opened that the "Fonty" in Günther Grass's "Ein weites Feld" was indeed Theodor Fontane. Granted that i did not really "lived" in "Ein weites Feld", but maybe ... i should read it again! But that is just bla.) And, dear Lady, whereas i like friendliness, i think it should be wholehearted and holistic. Removing some citations which, by the very heart of a citation, have a context, in which they should be contemplated, strives me as peculiar if at the same time we, western world citizens, either directly or indirectly, by means of our buying behaviour, for example, kill or suppress people, and even destroy life on earth as such. Regarding MeToo i am happy that here in Germany this overheated thing has been normalizest; crimes are crimes, and need to be punished (maybe i am an antisemit when i bring sympathy to the Public Enemy text "Jeffrey Dahmer, into the room without cuffs -- how the hell do we get stuffed???? In the back of a cell on an Isle."). But what if Jack Nicholson would have not been brought to go nuts in Shining, what if Brad Pitt would not have had to repeat the scene where he drags the dead Hector dozens of times, what if raped "bitches" (or non-bitches) would look like if they come from a gala dinner. That is just grazy. I personally do not think that removing these citations made the world a better place. And whereas i also do not think that it make the world a worse place, hah, i start hoping he could impress a nice young women, they got married and have some kids. A nice evening i wish, Miss Kathryn Spiers, --steffen | |Der Kragenbaer, The moon bear, |der holt sich munter he cheerfully and one by one |einen nach dem anderen runter wa.ks himself off |(By Robert Gernhardt)

His example of the USB driver was pretty silly. The unix code even *looked* cleaner and straightforward compared to the convoluted windows/mac messes, but he's mad because he had to figure out a *filepath*. What!? Tyler On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 12:37 PM Vincenzo Nicosia &lt;katolaz(a)freaknet.org&gt; wrote:

On Sun, Jan 19, 2020 at 9:35 AM Warner Losh &lt;imp(a)bsdimp.com&gt; wrote: The problem is this talk is just self aggrandizement at large. It would have been cute in the year 2000. It's pretty ridiculous cherry-picking hoping to target an unknowing audience in 2020. I can alt/option+space on my FreeBSD desktop, open a monitor, and kill a process in a GUI with a top right search box the exact same as OS X. Cool. Modern Linux distros don't even use X11 (except nested as OS X in case of legacy application). The crude APIs (he calls out Linux and Windows and BSD and C) are not secret. I would be surprised if Linus himself didn't agree that a lot of the Linux interfaces suck. There's just an issue of backwards compatibility, and you know, doing some work instead of fishing for social points at a conference. Android has deviated significantly from Linux. Linux from UNIX. Basically nobody at a Linux conference is blindly following the UNIX philosophy. This message makes little sense to that crowd in absolute terms. The kindest critique I can give is: fighting the last war.