15 Mar
2024
15 Mar
'24
9:23 p.m.
There was lawyerly concern about the code being
stolen.
Not always misplaced. There was a guy in Boston who sold Unix look-alike
programs. A quick look at the binary revealed perfect correlation with our
C source. Coincidentally, DEC had hired this person as a consultant in
connection with cross-licensing negotiations with AT&T. Socializing at
the end of a day's negotiations, our lawyer somehow managed to turn the
conversation to software piracy. He discussed a case he was working on,
and happened to have some documents about it in his briefcase. He pulled
out a page disassembled binary and a page of source code and showed them to
the consultant.
After a little study, the consultant confidently opined that the binary was
obviously compiled from that source. "Would it surprise you," the lawyer
asked, "if I told you that this is yours and that is ours?" The consultant
did not attend the following day's meeting.
Doug
15 Mar
15 Mar
10:27 p.m.
On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 05:23:44PM -0400, Douglas McIlroy wrote:
Oh come on, you can leave that juicy story there. What happened next?
--
---
Larry McVoy Retired to fishing http://www.mcvoy.com/lm/boat
There was
lawyerly concern about the code being stolen.
Not always misplaced. There was a guy in Boston who sold Unix look-alike
programs. A quick look at the binary revealed perfect correlation with our
C source. Coincidentally, DEC had hired this person as a consultant in
connection with cross-licensing negotiations with AT&T. Socializing at
the end of a day's negotiations, our lawyer somehow managed to turn the
conversation to software piracy. He discussed a case he was working on,
and happened to have some documents about it in his briefcase. He pulled
out a page disassembled binary and a page of source code and showed them to
the consultant.
After a little study, the consultant confidently opined that the binary was
obviously compiled from that source. "Would it surprise you," the lawyer
asked, "if I told you that this is yours and that is ours?" The consultant
did not attend the following day's meeting. 
10:28 p.m.
On Fri, 15 Mar 2024, Douglas McIlroy wrote:
[...]
After a little study, the consultant confidently
opined that the binary
was obviously compiled from that source. "Would it surprise you," the
lawyer asked, "if I told you that this is yours and that is ours?" The
consultant did not attend the following day's meeting.
Does anyone remember the case of the program that was literally
bug-compatible? That's mostly because the source had been pirated; the
bug was obscure enough that it was unlikely to have been reproduced
independently...
-- Dave
11 p.m.
"... literally bug-compatible ..."
When I used to work for the phone company.... wait, I mean Bell Labs ... I
was in a department (under Rudd Canaday!) that was building an application
to print phone books, so I got to learn a little about that side of the
business. The Bells would deliberately put in bogus listings to see if the
non-Bell phone books were stealing their data. (In the one case I was told
about, they were not. The Bell company had no idea how they were getting
the data.)
Marc
On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 4:28 PM Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> wrote:
On Fri, 15 Mar 2024, Douglas McIlroy wrote:
[...]
--
*My new email address is mrochkind(a)gmail.com <mrochkind(a)gmail.com>*
After a little study, the consultant confidently
opined that the binary
was obviously compiled from that source. "Would it surprise you," the
lawyer asked, "if I told you that this is yours and that is ours?" The
consultant did not attend the following day's meeting.
Does anyone remember the case of the program that was literally
bug-compatible? That's mostly because the source had been pirated; the
bug was obscure enough that it was unlikely to have been reproduced
independently...
-- Dave
16 Mar
16 Mar
5:24 a.m.
[ Slowly going OT ]
On Sat, 16 Mar 2024, Rich Salz wrote:
This was common practice among map publishers, called
a trap street.
Yep; I've seen one myself. A dead-end (where someone I knew lived, just
right behind where I used to), suddenly vanished from one edition; one
complaint later, and it reappeared in the next edition.
-- Dave
18 Mar
18 Mar
12:27 p.m.
On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 5:24 PM Douglas McIlroy
<douglas.mcilroy(a)dartmouth.edu> wrote:
Fantastic story, and talk about a true "Perry Mason" moment for the
lawyer. I'm sure it was also fertile material for stories at cocktail
parties for the rest of his days.
- Dan C.
There was lawyerly concern about the code being
stolen.
Not always misplaced. There was a guy in Boston who sold Unix look-alike programs. A
quick look at the binary revealed perfect correlation with our C source. Coincidentally,
DEC had hired this person as a consultant in connection with cross-licensing negotiations
with AT&T. Socializing at the end of a day's negotiations, our lawyer somehow
managed to turn the conversation to software piracy. He discussed a case he was working
on, and happened to have some documents about it in his briefcase. He pulled out a page
disassembled binary and a page of source code and showed them to the consultant.
After a little study, the consultant confidently opined that the binary was obviously
compiled from that source. "Would it surprise you," the lawyer asked, "if I
told you that this is yours and that is ours?" The consultant did not attend the
following day's meeting.
2:12 p.m.
Yes. The lawyer was walking on air when he got back to the office to tell
about it.
If I may digress into a personal story, somewhat pre-Unix. (I was nine
years old.) I remember my father showing exactly the same excitement when
he returned from testifying as an expert witness for the plaintiff in a
near-electrocution case that left the victim paralyzed. A visitor touring a
substation had pointed to something to ask what it was, and got hit with a
33,000-volt arc. The defense lawyer tried to discredit the expert, a
professor who formerly had been an electrical engineer for a utility
company.
Lawyer: Have you ever designed a 33,000-volt indoor substation?
Prof: I have.
Lawyer, changing tactics after an unexpected answer: Do you recognize this
book?
Prof: I do.
Some discussion describing the book, an inventory of utility facilities,
for the benefit of the jury.
Lawyer, with a hint of triumph: The inventory shows that your former
employer has no such substation.
Prof: Yes, after a few years we decided it was too dangerous and
decommissioned it.
...
Lawyer, showing a photo of the busbar that arced: Wouldn't someone have to
stretch unusually high to get near to it?
Prof: No. That picture was taken exactly [some measurement like 2'3"] from
the floor.
Lawyer: Do you mean to tell me you know where the picture was taken from,
without having been present when it was taken?
Prof, pointing to a blown-up engineering drawing on the courtroom wall:
This horizontal pipe is seen end-on in the photo. It is dimensioned as
being 2'3" from the floor.
The plaintiff won.
Doug
On Mon, Mar 18, 2024 at 8:28 AM Dan Cross <crossd(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 15, 2024 at 5:24 PM Douglas McIlroy
<douglas.mcilroy(a)dartmouth.edu> wrote:
programs.
A quick look at the binary revealed perfect correlation with our
C source. Coincidentally, DEC had hired this person as a consultant in
connection with cross-licensing negotiations with AT&T. Socializing at the
end of a day's negotiations, our lawyer somehow managed to turn the
conversation to software piracy. He discussed a case he was working on,
and happened to have some documents about it in his briefcase. He pulled
out a page disassembled binary and a page of source code and showed them to
the consultant.
There was lawyerly concern about the code being
stolen.
Not always misplaced. There was a guy in Boston who sold Unix look-alike
After a little study, the consultant confidently opined that the binary
was
obviously compiled from that source. "Would it surprise you," the
lawyer asked, "if I told you that this is yours and that is ours?" The
consultant did not attend the following day's meeting.
Fantastic story, and talk about a true "Perry Mason" moment for the
lawyer. I'm sure it was also fertile material for stories at cocktail
parties for the rest of his days.
- Dan C.
50
days inactive
53
days old
7 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
Dan Cross -
Dave Horsfall -
Douglas McIlroy -
Larry McVoy -
Marc Rochkind -
Rich Salz