3 Jun
2006
3 Jun
'06
1:57 p.m.
Hi,
last week a work mate told us a tale about how Unix came to its
name. He believes that Unix is named after the term eunuch (a
homophone of (to?) unix in english language). One can see Unix as a
castrated successor of Multics. Hmmm, I am interested in Unix history
for several years now, but I haven't heard about that before. It is
really a tale I guess. Any clear words about this topic?
Michael
--
biff4emacsen - A biff-like tool for (X)Emacs
http://www.c0t0d0s0.de/biff4emacsen/biff4emacsen.html
4 Jun
4 Jun
8:44 p.m.
Michael Welle napisał(a):
Hi,
last week a work mate told us a tale about how Unix came to its
name. He believes that Unix is named after the term eunuch (a
homophone of (to?) unix in english language).
In Oxford American Dictionary
eunuch (spelled yoo-nuk) . Is it the source of this tale ?
In Webster 3 edition (Koenemann, about 2000 pages)) unix is not mentioned
eunuch (spelled yu-nik,yu-nek)
One can see Unix as a
castrated successor of Multics.
Unix was Unics at the beginning(uniplexed information computer system)
as opposed to Multics (multiplexed information computer system),
last was working even in 1980.Even name suggests, that Unics was a
simplified concept, of course at that time.
As You know most modern Unix boxes are multiCPU systems etc ,etc.
Hmmm, I am interested in Unix history
for several years now, but I haven't heard about that before. It is
really a tale I guess. Any clear words about this topic?
Michael
You will find tones of information in Internet.
Andrzej
5 Jun
5 Jun
10:41 a.m.
Michael Welle napisał(a):
Hi,
last week a work mate told us a tale about how Unix came to its
name. He believes that Unix is named after the term eunuch (a
homophone of (to?) unix in english language). One can see Unix as a
Now, that You know where the name unix comes from(see my previous post),
there still is a *funny* coincidence in pronounciation of both words.
In Oxford American Dictionary
eunuch is pronounced as "yoo-nuk" (not all symbols reproduced)
unit is "yoo-nit"
unique is "yoo-neek"
In Webster English Language Dictionary
eunuch is "'yunek"
unit is "'yunet"
unique is "yu'nek,yu'nik"
You can notice, that unix , more similar to unit or unique will be
pronounced differently(?).
It suggests , that although for us foreigners the difference is hard to
be distinguished, but perhaps Americans and Englishmen can hear the
subtle difference above shown in the pronounciation(or perhaps not all).
I suspect , that if the pronounciation were be same many people would
have noticed it before.
It is clear , that opinion of American/English linguistic/language
specialist would be neccesarry.
Andrzej
11:20 a.m.
On Mon, June 5, 2006 11:41 am, Andrzej Popielewicz wrote:
eunuch is pronounced as "yoo-nuk" (not all symbols reproduced) unit is
"yoo-nit"
unique is "yoo-neek"
In Webster English Language Dictionary
eunuch is "'yunek" unit is "'yunet" unique is
"yu'nek,yu'nik"
You can notice, that unix , more similar to unit or unique will be
pronounced differently(?).
I think the position of the stress is important. `Unix', the way I
pronounce it (and I think the way everyone does) is stressed on the 1st
syllable, as is `eunuch' and `Multics'. To a large extent the distinction
in the sound of the 2nd syllable then doesn't matter because in typical
English dialects they all end up the same null sound (schwar? I forget the
name).
`unique' for instance has stress on second syllable, so really is very
different.
--tim
1:49 p.m.
Andrzej Popielewicz scripsit:
eunuch is "'yunek"
unit is "'yunet"
unique is "yu'nek,yu'nik"
You can notice, that unix , more similar to unit or unique will be
pronounced differently(?).
English is a vowel-reduction language, like Russian or Portuguese;
vowels in unstressed syllables tend to be reduced either to schwa or to
lax short i. Because the anglophone countries broke up politically before
language standardization could take effect, there is no single standard
pronunciation worldwide, nor any fixed hierarchy of standards.
Therefore, one must consider both dialects in which the unstressed short
i and the unstressed schwa both become schwa, and ones where they do not.
In the former dialects, "Unix" and "eunuchs" sound exactly alike; in
the latter dialects, there is a small difference.
(As Tim Bradshaw notes, "unique" is stressed on the second syllable,
so there is no vowel reduction on that syllable.)
I suspect , that if the pronounciation were be same
many people would
have noticed it before.
I am quite certain that many people have. It was perfectly obvious to me
the first time I saw the word "Unix" written, and that was in 1976 or so.
It is clear , that opinion of American/English
linguistic/language
specialist would be neccesarry.
I am not a specialist, but I am a generalist with a good understanding
of the domain.
--
John Cowan cowan(a)ccil.org http://ccil.org/~cowan
Female celebrity stalker, on a hot morning in Cairo:
"Imagine, Colonel Lawrence, ninety-two already!"
El Auruns's reply: "Many happy returns of the day!"
2:14 p.m.
John Cowan napisał(a):
Well, I cannot "reproduce it" in my mind this funny feeling I suspect,
as not natively Enlish speaking.
Hopefully it helped the Unix .Does it cause the smile every time You
hear it ?
Even now knowing it I will probably ,hearing or reading the word "Unix",
not associate it with "eunuch".Probably because I have coded Polish
pronounciation in my mind, or in other words I mostly think in Polish.
Your opinion is sufficient.I appreciate.
Andrzej
Andrzej Popielewicz scripsit:
OK, so I have learned something about English.
eunuch is "'yunek"
unit is "'yunet"
unique is "yu'nek,yu'nik"
You can notice, that unix , more similar to unit or unique will be
pronounced differently(?).
English is a vowel-reduction language, like Russian or Portuguese;
vowels in unstressed syllables tend to be reduced either to schwa or to
lax short i. Because the anglophone countries broke up politically before
language standardization could take effect, there is no single standard
pronunciation worldwide, nor any fixed hierarchy of standards.
Therefore, one must consider both dialects in which the unstressed short
i and the unstressed schwa both become schwa, and ones where they do not.
In the former dialects, "Unix" and "eunuchs" sound exactly alike; in
the latter dialects, there is a small difference.
(As Tim Bradshaw notes, "unique" is stressed
on the second syllable,
so there is no vowel reduction on that syllable.)
It is and it was quite obvious for me before, I agree with You both,I
found only words with similar pronounciation(neglecting stress).
I suspect ,
that if the pronounciation were be same many people would
have noticed it before.
I am quite certain that many people have. It was perfectly obvious to me
the first time I saw the word "Unix" written, and that was in 1976 or so.
It is clear ,
that opinion of American/English linguistic/language
specialist would be neccesarry.
I am not a specialist, but I am a generalist with a good understanding
of the domain.
2:26 p.m.
On Mon, Jun 05, 2006 at 04:14:02PM +0200, Andrzej Popielewicz wrote..
John Cowan napisa??(a):
Well, I cannot "reproduce it" in my mind this funny feeling I suspect,
as not natively Enlish speaking.
Hopefully it helped the Unix .Does it cause the smile every time You
hear it ?
Even now knowing it I will probably ,hearing or reading the word "Unix",
not associate it with "eunuch".Probably because I have coded Polish
pronounciation in my mind, or in other words I mostly think in Polish.
FWIW and to clutter the discussion:
in Dutch Unix is pronounced like "Uniks", eunuch as "Eu-neug". So the
funny
implications were completely lost on me until now.
Wilko
--
Wilko Bulte wilko(a)FreeBSD.org
Andrzej Popielewicz scripsit:
OK, so I have learned something about English.
eunuch is "'yunek"
unit is "'yunet"
unique is "yu'nek,yu'nik"
You can notice, that unix , more similar to unit or unique will be
pronounced differently(?).
English is a vowel-reduction language, like Russian or Portuguese;
vowels in unstressed syllables tend to be reduced either to schwa or to
lax short i. Because the anglophone countries broke up politically before
language standardization could take effect, there is no single standard
pronunciation worldwide, nor any fixed hierarchy of standards.
Therefore, one must consider both dialects in which the unstressed short
i and the unstressed schwa both become schwa, and ones where they do not.
In the former dialects, "Unix" and "eunuchs" sound exactly alike; in
the latter dialects, there is a small difference.
(As Tim Bradshaw notes, "unique" is
stressed on the second syllable,
so there is no vowel reduction on that syllable.)
It is and it was quite obvious for me before, I agree with You both,I
found only words with similar pronounciation(neglecting stress).
I suspect
, that if the pronounciation were be same many people would
have noticed it before.
I am quite certain that many people have. It was perfectly obvious to me
the first time I saw the word "Unix" written, and that was in 1976 or so.
3:02 p.m.
Andrzej Popielewicz scripsit:
Well, I cannot "reproduce it" in my mind
this funny feeling I suspect,
as not natively Enlish speaking.
Not surprising. Puns in other languages are often hard to appreciate.
Hopefully it helped the Unix .Does it cause the smile
every time You
hear it ?
Well, the joke is rather less funny after 30 years than when I first
saw it. Also not surprising.
English is full of unrelated words pronounced exactly alike, at least
partly because of its habit of borrowing words from foreign languages as
they are written and then changing the pronunciation to suit itself,
which accounts for the strange English pronunciation of "eunuch"
(of Classical Greek origin).
English has always had an appetite for borrowed words, ever since we
replaced huge amounts of our native vocabulary with borrowed French,
Latin, and Greek words. (From Polish, not so much, except for the
names of specifically Polish things such as "babka", "ogonek",
"pierogi"
(more usually "pierogies", with an English plural ending added),
"Sejm",
and "zloty".)
(There is, however, just to get *completely* off-topic, the curious
case of the English word "spruce", which means any of various coniferous
evergreen trees of the genus _Picea_. Most of this word is unquestionably
from "Pruce", the older English name for Prussia, now obsolete.
But Wikipedia suggests, perhaps rightly, that the initial s- comes
from a misinterpretation of the Polish phrase _z Prus_ 'from Prussia'.
English dictionaries are not conclusive.)
A question for any francophones on the list: is the final -x in "Unix"
normally pronounced in French, or is it silent?
--
John Cowan cowan(a)ccil.org http://ccil.org/~cowan
Big as a house, much bigger than a house, it looked to [Sam], a grey-clad
moving hill. Fear and wonder, maybe, enlarged him in the hobbit's eyes,
but the Mumak of Harad was indeed a beast of vast bulk, and the like of him
does not walk now in Middle-earth; his kin that live still in latter days are
but memories of his girth and his majesty. --"Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit"
13 Jun
13 Jun
7:19 a.m.
Hi,
Andrzej Popielewicz <vasco(a)icpnet.pl> writes:
[...]
Your opinion is sufficient.I appreciate. FACK.
Michael
--
biff4emacsen - A biff-like tool for (X)Emacs
http://www.c0t0d0s0.de/biff4emacsen/biff4emacsen.html
Well, I cannot "reproduce it" in my mind
this funny feeling I suspect,
as not natively Enlish speaking.
Hopefully it helped the Unix .Does it cause the smile every time You
hear it ?
Even now knowing it I will probably ,hearing or reading the word "Unix",
not associate it with "eunuch".Probably because I have coded Polish
pronounciation in my mind, or in other words I mostly think in
Polish.
same here. Except the starting syllable the terms sound totally
different for me. The form of my mouth is different if I speak the
words. That makes the whole story incredible for me.
It is clear , that opinion of American/English
linguistic/language
specialist would be neccesarry.
I am not a specialist, but I am a generalist with a good understanding
of the domain.
13 Jun
13 Jun
7:40 a.m.
Hi,
Andrzej Popielewicz <vasco(a)icpnet.pl> writes:
[...]
In Oxford American Dictionary
eunuch is pronounced as "yoo-nuk" (not all symbols reproduced)
unit is "yoo-nit"
unique is "yoo-neek"
In Webster English Language Dictionary
eunuch is "'yunek"
unit is "'yunet"
unique is "yu'nek,yu'nik"
You can notice, that unix , more similar to unit or unique will be
pronounced differently(?).
interesting. I tend to use a more british english style,
but I
pronounce the terms like in OAD.
Michael
--
biff4emacsen - A biff-like tool for (X)Emacs
http://www.c0t0d0s0.de/biff4emacsen/biff4emacsen.html
6529
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10 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
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Andrzej Popielewicz -
Ian King -
John Cowan -
Michael Welle -
Tim Bradshaw -
Wilko Bulte