9 Apr
2017
9 Apr
'17
11:14 p.m.
Apologies if this is already on the list somewhere.
What's the best way to transfer files in and out of the simh 4.3BSD Wisc
version? I can do it with tape files, but it seems like FTP or ssh or
NFS ought to be possible, and none is behaving at first blush.
Also, what's the recommended way to shut down the system? I shutdown
now to single user, then sync a few times, then ^E, but when I boot
again I get fsck errors serious enough to require a manual fsck (which
generally works fine.)
Thanks,
Mary Ann
10 Apr
10 Apr
6:05 a.m.
On Sun, Apr 09, 2017 at 10:14:06AM -0700, Mary Ann Horton wrote:
What's the best way to transfer files in and out
of the simh 4.3BSD Wisc
version? I can do it with tape files, but it seems like FTP or ssh or NFS
ought to be possible, and none is behaving at first blush.
I don't know how close 4.3UWisc is (in terms of config files etc.) to
valilla 4.3BSD, but you might be able to untar the 4bsd-uucp customisation
tarball over the top of 4.3UWisc. That would get you the ftp binary with
PASV on by default, and the de0 interface set up with a working NAT IP
address. Then you could set up a local ftp server on another box.
I'm nearly out the door for a week's break else I'd try it out.
Cheers, Warren
7:46 a.m.
You have to remember this is old stuff, so you will have to fight protocol drift.
Simh has issues using pcap and talking to the host is, it's more so a pcap
limitation. I think the newer version has tun/tap support which may be easier to deal
with, although more involved.
My favorite way was using a web server to serve files out. As for getting stuff in, a
simple CGI or like thing for uploading.
Back in 4.3 land, ftp is going to be active mode, there was no nat, no passive mode, so
you'll need to configure accordingly.
How do you have your lan setup? What host OS? Are you trying to access fSit from the same
machine?
In the past I've had to use uuencode/uudecode on a connection to transfer the bare
minimum of a pre-compiled GCC to sparc solaris, so I know this pain.
Also don't forget if you have tty access you can build sz/rz and use Z-modem.
NFS should be present in UWisc, it has many Sun stuff built in. But keep in mind
it's very old, and could easily suffer from odd things like block size issues, akin
to stuff like ancient Sun-100U / Sun-2 had.
On April 10, 2017 1:14:06 AM GMT+08:00, Mary Ann Horton <mah(a)mhorton.net> wrote:
Apologies if this is already on the list somewhere.
What's the best way to transfer files in and out of the simh 4.3BSD
Wisc
version? I can do it with tape files, but it seems like FTP or ssh or
NFS ought to be possible, and none is behaving at first blush.
Also, what's the recommended way to shut down the system? I shutdown
now to single user, then sync a few times, then ^E, but when I boot
again I get fsck errors serious enough to require a manual fsck (which
generally works fine.)
Thanks,
Mary Ann
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
9:32 a.m.
Should work fine with the 4.3 template tape... But I would save the original kernel
just in case
I moved binaries from the older 4.3 to Reno and uWisc without problems.
Ftp works. I wish I could get lynx and wet to build.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org>
To: Mary Ann Horton <mah(a)mhorton.net>
Cc: TUHS main list <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Sun, 09 Apr 2017 20:05
Subject: Re: [TUHS] 4.3 Wisc file transfer
On Sun, Apr 09, 2017 at 10:14:06AM -0700, Mary Ann Horton wrote:
What's the best way to transfer files in and out
of the simh 4.3BSD Wisc
version? I can do it with tape files, but it seems like FTP or ssh or NFS
ought to be possible, and none is behaving at first blush.
I don't know how close 4.3UWisc is (in terms of config files etc.) to
valilla 4.3BSD, but you might be able to untar the 4bsd-uucp customisation
tarball over the top of 4.3UWisc. That would get you the ftp binary with
PASV on by default, and the de0 interface set up with a working NAT IP
address. Then you could set up a local ftp server on another box.
I'm nearly out the door for a week's break else I'd try it out.
Cheers, Warren
9:56 a.m.
I have a pre-built Lynx for 4.3 UWISC here:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/bsd42/files/Package%20Tapes/4.3%20BSD%20Uw…
I recall 4.3 RENO being incredibly unstable, and having major issues compiling lynx as
some of the files are pretty big. Basically I found 4.3 UWisc hiding in a directory on
TUHS, and though I’d see what it was and I found it to be a FAR FAR superior thing to not
only RENO, but stock 4.3 .
Speaking of AberMUD, I have version 2 built for pretty much everything....
https://sourceforge.net/projects/bsd42/files/Package%20Tapes/4.3%20BSD%20Uw…
I need to troll the old usenet stuff for some sz/rz and an old httpd, maybe Apache 1.3 may
work as well, I mean I did get it to actually build for NT 3. 1 of all things, so a BSD
shouldn’t be such a long shot. Maybe add in a perl, and we can have a semi useful
gateway.... Although I guess adding in MySQL and going full *AMP may be a bit crazy, but
it could be useful.. And maybe it’d open up WebDAV for shuffling files around.
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: William Pechter
Sent: Monday, 10 April 2017 11:33 AM
To: Mary Ann Horton; Warren Toomey
Cc: TUHS main list
Subject: Re: [TUHS] 4.3 Wisc file transfer
Should work fine with the 4.3 template tape... But I would save the original kernel
just in case
I moved binaries from the older 4.3 to Reno and uWisc without problems.
Ftp works. I wish I could get lynx and wet to build.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org>
To: Mary Ann Horton <mah(a)mhorton.net>
Cc: TUHS main list <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Sun, 09 Apr 2017 20:05
Subject: Re: [TUHS] 4.3 Wisc file transfer
On Sun, Apr 09, 2017 at 10:14:06AM -0700, Mary Ann Horton wrote:
What's the best way to transfer files in and out
of the simh 4.3BSD Wisc
version? I can do it with tape files, but it seems like FTP or ssh or NFS
ought to be possible, and none is behaving at first blush.
I don't know how close 4.3UWisc is (in terms of config files etc.) to
valilla 4.3BSD, but you might be able to untar the 4bsd-uucp customisation
tarball over the top of 4.3UWisc. That would get you the ftp binary with
PASV on by default, and the de0 interface set up with a working NAT IP
address. Then you could set up a local ftp server on another box.
I'm nearly out the door for a week's break else I'd try it out.
Cheers, Warren
10:26 a.m.
I haven't worked too much with 4.3BSD but I have worked extensively with
Ultrix 1 which is basically 4.2. If you can get a relatively recent gmake
and gcc 2 going, that should be enough to get bash 2 built, and from there
you can use that to run configure scripts with LIBS=-liberty which should
be enough for most smaller programs. Perl 5.6 should be possible. If you
really want a web server, maybe try thttpd. MySQL/PHP/WebDAV seem like a
pipe dream, 4.3BSD doesn't have dynamic loading and even if you can get
around that you're still going to run into memory limitations in a big
hurry.
Personally, I just set up rsh so that I can use rcp to move files in and
out. Setting up rsh on a modern OS can be a pain but it's still much
simpler than most of what is being proposed here. I find that life is much
easier if you look at what tools are available in the historic OS and find
a way to use those with a modern OS, rather than the other way around.
Oh, and I'm not sure what the 4.3BSD default is, but make sure your
interface isn't using trailers. They don't play well with modern networking.
-Henry
On 9 April 2017 at 23:56, <jsteve(a)superglobalmegacorp.com> wrote:
I have a pre-built Lynx for 4.3 UWISC here:
https://sourceforge.net/projects/bsd42/files/Package%
20Tapes/4.3%20BSD%20Uwisc/lynx-2.8.2.binary.BSD-4.3.Uwisc.tap.bz2/download
I recall 4.3 RENO being incredibly unstable, and having major issues
compiling lynx as some of the files are pretty big. Basically I found 4.3
UWisc hiding in a directory on TUHS, and though I’d see what it was and I
found it to be a FAR FAR superior thing to not only RENO, but stock 4.3 .
Speaking of AberMUD, I have version 2 built for pretty much everything....
https://sourceforge.net/projects/bsd42/files/Package%
20Tapes/4.3%20BSD%20Uwisc/AberMUD-2.BSD-4.3.Uwisc.tap.bz2/download
I need to troll the old usenet stuff for some sz/rz and an old httpd,
maybe Apache 1.3 may work as well, I mean I did get it to actually build
for NT 3. 1 of all things, so a BSD shouldn’t be such a long shot. Maybe
add in a perl, and we can have a semi useful gateway.... Although I guess
adding in MySQL and going full *AMP may be a bit crazy, but it could be
useful.. And maybe it’d open up WebDAV for shuffling files around.
Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
Windows 10
*From: *William Pechter <pechter(a)gmail.com>
*Sent: *Monday, 10 April 2017 11:33 AM
*To: *Mary Ann Horton <mah(a)mhorton.net>et>; Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org>
*Cc: *TUHS main list <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
*Subject: *Re: [TUHS] 4.3 Wisc file transfer
Should work fine with the 4.3 template tape... But I would save the
original kernel
just in case
I moved binaries from the older 4.3 to Reno and uWisc without problems.
Ftp works. I wish I could get lynx and wet to build.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org>
To: Mary Ann Horton <mah(a)mhorton.net>
Cc: TUHS main list <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Sun, 09 Apr 2017 20:05
Subject: Re: [TUHS] 4.3 Wisc file transfer
On Sun, Apr 09, 2017 at 10:14:06AM -0700, Mary Ann Horton wrote:
What's the best way to transfer files in and
out of the simh 4.3BSD Wisc
version? I can do it with tape files, but it
seems like FTP or ssh or
NFS
ought to be possible, and none is behaving at
first blush.
I don't know how close 4.3UWisc is (in terms of config files etc.) to
valilla 4.3BSD, but you might be able to untar the 4bsd-uucp customisation
tarball over the top of 4.3UWisc. That would get you the ftp binary with
PASV on by default, and the de0 interface set up with a working NAT IP
address. Then you could set up a local ftp server on another box.
I'm nearly out the door for a week's break else I'd try it out.
Cheers, Warren
9:23 p.m.
Bill, mine is set up to NAT, and here's the FTP failure I get. How did
you set up your NIC?
Thanks,
Mary Ann
% who > who.out
% ftp mah
Connected to mah.
220 mah FTP server (Version 6.4/OpenBSD/Linux-ftpd-0.17) ready.
Name (mah:mah):
331 Password required for mah.
Password:
230 User mah logged in.
ftp> debug
Debugging on (debug=1).
ftp> put who.out
---> PORT 10,0,2,4,4,33
500 Illegal PORT rejected (address wrong).
---> STOR who.out
425 Can't build data connection: Connection refused.
ftp> quit
---> QUIT
221 Goodbye.
cbosgd# ifconfig de0
de0: flags=43<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING>
inet 10.0.2.4 netmask ffffff00 broadcast 10.0.2.255
mah(a)/home/mah/src/vax/4.3-wisc> grep xu boot2.ini
set xu enable
attach xu nat:
On 04/09/2017 08:32 PM, William Pechter wrote:
Ftp works. I wish I could get lynx and wet to build.
Bill
Cheers, Warren
9:42 p.m.
Nat and vintage ftp won't get along. You need something that does passive on the
VAX.
On April 10, 2017 11:23:51 PM GMT+08:00, Mary Ann Horton <mah(a)mhorton.net> wrote:
Bill, mine is set up to NAT, and here's the FTP
failure I get. How did
you set up your NIC?
Thanks,
Mary Ann
% who > who.out
% ftp mah
Connected to mah.
220 mah FTP server (Version 6.4/OpenBSD/Linux-ftpd-0.17) ready.
Name (mah:mah):
331 Password required for mah.
Password:
230 User mah logged in.
ftp> debug
Debugging on (debug=1).
ftp> put who.out
---> PORT 10,0,2,4,4,33
500 Illegal PORT rejected (address wrong).
---> STOR who.out
425 Can't build data connection: Connection refused.
ftp> quit
---> QUIT
221 Goodbye.
cbosgd# ifconfig de0
de0: flags=43<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING>
inet 10.0.2.4 netmask ffffff00 broadcast 10.0.2.255
mah(a)/home/mah/src/vax/4.3-wisc> grep xu boot2.ini
set xu enable
attach xu nat:
On 04/09/2017 08:32 PM, William Pechter wrote:
> Ftp works. I wish I could get lynx and wet to build.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> Cheers, Warren
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
9:43 p.m.
On Mon, 10 Apr 2017, Jason Stevens wrote:
Nat and vintage ftp won't get along. You need
something that does passive on the VAX.
I wonder if pf's ftp-proxy approach helps any...
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
10:13 p.m.
Either extract Warren's ftp from the template tar tape or I think it's on
anonymous ftp at lakewoodmicro.com.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Mary Ann Horton <mah(a)mhorton.net>
To: William Pechter <pechter(a)gmail.com>
Cc: TUHS main list <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Mon, 10 Apr 2017 11:23
Subject: Re: [TUHS] 4.3 Wisc file transfer
Bill, mine is set up to NAT, and here's the FTP failure I get. How did
you set up your NIC?
Thanks,
Mary Ann
% who > who.out
% ftp mah
Connected to mah.
220 mah FTP server (Version 6.4/OpenBSD/Linux-ftpd-0.17) ready.
Name (mah:mah):
331 Password required for mah.
Password:
230 User mah logged in.
ftp> debug
Debugging on (debug=1).
ftp> put who.out
---> PORT 10,0,2,4,4,33
500 Illegal PORT rejected (address wrong).
---> STOR who.out
425 Can't build data connection: Connection refused.
ftp> quit
---> QUIT
221 Goodbye.
cbosgd# ifconfig de0
de0: flags=43<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING>
inet 10.0.2.4 netmask ffffff00 broadcast 10.0.2.255
mah(a)/home/mah/src/vax/4.3-wisc> grep xu boot2.ini
set xu enable
attach xu nat:
On 04/09/2017 08:32 PM, William Pechter wrote:
Ftp works. I wish I could get lynx and wet to build.
Bill
Cheers, Warren
11 Apr
11 Apr
5:52 a.m.
How? SLiRP is user mode code. It's the one doing the nat.
On April 10, 2017 11:43:22 PM GMT+08:00, Cory Smelosky <b4(a)gewt.net> wrote:
On Mon, 10 Apr 2017, Jason Stevens wrote:
I wonder if pf's ftp-proxy approach helps any...
--
Cory Smelosky
http://gewt.net Personal stuff
http://gimme-sympathy.org Projects
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
Nat and vintage ftp won't get along. You
need something that does
passive on the VAX.
6:37 p.m.
Sorry for replying off the chain, but here is Apache 1.3.6 compiled for 4.3 UWisc.
It's strictly a "wow it linked" stage, and this is just my source tree that
I've compiled in. I did get it to serve an empty directory to me, so I know that
much works.
https://sourceforge.net/projects/bsd42/files/Package%20Tapes/4.3%20BSD%20Uw…
It's been a busy day, but I'll try to get a webdav static compile.
If anyone is crazy enough to try it themselves, tell Apache you are running NeXTSTEP,
(-DNEXT) as it's a 4.3BSD and seems to be close enough, with the exception that there
is no shared libraries.
On April 11, 2017 12:13:02 AM GMT+08:00, William Pechter <pechter(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Either extract Warren's ftp from the template tar
tape or I think it's
on anonymous ftp at lakewoodmicro.com.
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: Mary Ann Horton <mah(a)mhorton.net>
To: William Pechter <pechter(a)gmail.com>
Cc: TUHS main list <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org>
Sent: Mon, 10 Apr 2017 11:23
Subject: Re: [TUHS] 4.3 Wisc file transfer
Bill, mine is set up to NAT, and here's the FTP failure I get. How did
you set up your NIC?
Thanks,
Mary Ann
% who > who.out
% ftp mah
Connected to mah.
220 mah FTP server (Version 6.4/OpenBSD/Linux-ftpd-0.17) ready.
Name (mah:mah):
331 Password required for mah.
Password:
230 User mah logged in.
ftp> debug
Debugging on (debug=1).
ftp> put who.out
---> PORT 10,0,2,4,4,33
500 Illegal PORT rejected (address wrong).
---> STOR who.out
425 Can't build data connection: Connection refused.
ftp> quit
---> QUIT
221 Goodbye.
cbosgd# ifconfig de0
de0: flags=43<UP,BROADCAST,RUNNING>
inet 10.0.2.4 netmask ffffff00 broadcast 10.0.2.255
mah(a)/home/mah/src/vax/4.3-wisc> grep xu boot2.ini
set xu enable
attach xu nat:
On 04/09/2017 08:32 PM, William Pechter wrote:
> Ftp works. I wish I could get lynx and wet to build.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> Cheers, Warren
--
Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
2591
days inactive
2593
days old
11 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Cory Smelosky -
Henry Bent -
Jason Stevens -
jsteve＠superglobalmegacorp.com
-
Mary Ann Horton -
Warren Toomey -
William Pechter