3 Mar
2023
3 Mar
'23
6:22 p.m.
From: KenUnix
So is it safe to say there is no fsck or similar for
v7?
There was a version of 'fcheck' (are 'fsck' and 'fcheck' the
same program?)
for V7, but I don't know if it's available. It would be really easy to
convert the 'fcheck.c' that I put up to a V7 version; the V6 and V7 file
systems are almost identical, except for the block size, I think.
From: Dan Cross
I believe you posted a link to end(3) here back in
2018
Yes, but that does't talk about '_end' not being defined if there
are missing externals, either! All it says is:
"Values are given to these symbols by the link editor 'ld' when, and
only
when, they are referred to but not defined in the set of programs loaded."
Now that I think about it, I have this vague memory we had to look at the
source for 'ld.c' to verify what was going on!
From: Jonathan Gray
That is close, but slightly different to the PWB
fcheck.c
Interesting. I wonder how 'fcheck' made it from CMU to Bell? Clem and I
discussed how it made it from CMU to MIT, and we think it was via Wayne
Gramlich, who'd been an undergrad at CMU, and then went to grad school at MIT.
I'm pretty sure the reason we liked it was not any auto-repair capabilities,
but ISTR it was somewhat faster than icheck/dcheck. (Interesting that they were
separate programs in V6; V5 seems to have only had check:
http://squoze.net/UNIX/v5man/man8/check
https://minnie.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V5/usr/source/s1/check.c
which contained the functionality of both. I wonder why they were split?
Space?)
From: Rich Salz
But the amazing point was it worked regardless of bit
order.
I forgot to mention thast, but yes, its input was the number in bit-serial
form. I suspect there's a connection between the property he mentioned, and
the fact that the grad student could design something which would work with
binary numbers fed in from either end, but I can't bring myself to devote the
brain cells to figure it out.
From: John Cowan
I didn't know that one was done at MIT.
Yes; see:
https://www.hactrn.net/sra/alice/alice.intro
There's a really funny story at the end of that about the real Ann Marie
Finn. In Rob's version, she took the role of KAREN in the earlier one. That
would be Karen Prendergast, Patrick Winston's admin; why we used her I don't
know, since I didn't really know her, but I guess she had a reputation as a bit of
a 'tough cookie'.
> I think that the person fails their oral. I have
no idea if it's a
> true story.
That's vicious.
Hey, this _is_ the school that used to tell incoming freshpeople, at the
welcoming picnic 'look at the person to your left, and to your right; at
graduation, one of you won't be here'. I don't remeber if they said the
same
thing at mine, or if the story had just been passed down from class to class.
Noel
3 Mar
3 Mar
7:25 p.m.
New subject: Unix v7 icheck dup problem
On 3/3/23 1:22 PM, Noel Chiappa wrote:
Hey, this _is_ the school that used to tell incoming
freshpeople, at the
welcoming picnic 'look at the person to your left, and to your right; at
graduation, one of you won't be here'. I don't remeber if they said the
same
thing at mine, or if the story had just been passed down from class to class.
A former CWRU president (very soon after the merger) used to tell freshmen
the same thing during his annual address to the incoming class.
--
``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer
``Ars longa, vita brevis'' - Hippocrates
Chet Ramey, UTech, CWRU chet(a)case.edu http://tiswww.cwru.edu/~chet/
9:26 p.m.
New subject: Unix v7 icheck dup problem
On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 2:25 PM Chet Ramey <chet.ramey(a)case.edu> wrote:
A former CWRU president (very soon after the merger)
used to tell freshmen
the same thing during his annual address to the incoming class.
I remember being told that when I arrived at Case in 1976; sure enough,
within a year I was the one who had departed. I didn't belong there
anyway. I wound up, for family reasons, at CCNY and signed up for the
Communications and Mass Media program, but I haunted the college bookstore
and picked up the computer-science books (this was back when casuals could
actually afford to buy them; one I got then was the Elements of Programming
Style). I have never allowed schooling to interfere with my education.
Two other things I remember from that speech were that Michelson was a
Casie and Morley was a Reservie, and that (as the campus was completely
covered with mud at the time), we were never to trust 100-year flood
estimates in the United States, as there was not enough evidence to go on,
and that in fact that was the third 100-year flood in Cleveland in the last
16 years.
4 Mar
4 Mar
12:23 a.m.
New subject: Unix v7 icheck dup problem
On 3/3/23 4:26 PM, John Cowan wrote:
On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 2:25 PM Chet Ramey <chet.ramey(a)case.edu
<mailto:chet.ramey@case.edu>> wrote:
A former CWRU president (very soon after the merger) used to tell freshmen
the same thing during his annual address to the incoming class.
I remember being told that when I arrived at Case in 1976; sure enough,
within a year I was the one who had departed.
That's Louis Toepfer. Also famous for the other line he was fond of:
"Learning is suffering."
Two other things I remember from that speech were that
Michelson was a
Casie and Morley was a Reservie,
Quite true. That distinction was more important back then, closer to the
merger. There were still "Casies" and "Reservies" when I went, but
the
subsequent administrations have done a lot of work to unify the campus.
and that (as the campus was completely
covered with mud at the time), we were never to trust
100-year flood
estimates in the United States, as there was not enough evidence to go on,
and that in fact that was the third 100-year flood in Cleveland in the last
16 years.
Doan Creek (buried and yet) still floods from time to time, most recently a
few years ago. It flooded the basement and parking garage of the building
where I work.
--
``The lyf so short, the craft so long to lerne.'' - Chaucer
``Ars longa, vita brevis'' - Hippocrates
Chet Ramey, UTech, CWRU chet(a)case.edu http://tiswww.cwru.edu/~chet/
3 Mar
3 Mar
7:35 p.m.
New subject: Unix v7 icheck dup problem
On Fri, Mar 3, 2023 at 1:22 PM Noel Chiappa <jnc(a)mercury.lcs.mit.edu> wrote:
Last fall, I recovered the original CMU sources to both. And I told
Warren
after I clean things up, I'll push them to TUHS both source and binaries
but I have a number of other projects ahead of that.
From: KenUnix
So is it safe to say there is no fsck or similar
for v7?
Yes, but that does't talk about '_end' not being defined if there
are missing externals, either!
From V7: https://man.cat-v.org/unix_7th/1/ld <--- this should only be a
URL - let me know if Chrome/gmail is peeing on it again
The symbols `_etext', `_edata' and `_end' (`etext', `edata'
and `end' in C) are reserved, and if referred to, are set to
the first location above the program, the first location
above initialized data, and the first location above all
data respectively. It is erroneous to define these symbols.
Then check the section 3 man page: https://man.cat-v.org/unix_7th/3/end
which describes them in more detail.
Interesting. I wonder how 'fcheck' made it
from CMU to Bell?
The late Ted Kowaski - the primary author. Undergrad EE UMICH (Bill Joy's
roommate) and Grad EE at CMU (and my programming/lab partner originally in
Dan Sieworick's grad RT course and Gordon Bell System Architecture
courses). MTS and TSS had a disk scavenger from IBM for their common FS
[which Ted has used at MICH and I had CMU]. icheck/ncheck/dcheck seemed
less useful.
A new program was started when he was an undergrad and never finished.
It had more colorful name originally - fsck (pronounced as fisk BTW) was
finished. I suspect the fcheck name was a USG idea. The reason why many
of the error messages are upper case is that was the IBM convention which
both MTS and TSS used for system programs.
I'm pretty sure the reason we liked it was not
any auto-repair
capabilities,
but ISTR it was somewhat faster than icheck/dcheck. (Interesting that they
were
separate programs in V6; V5 seems to have only had check
CMU only ran V5 for a very short time and never in the EE Dept. I only
knew of one system that ever ran it. We were a hacked V6 most of the time
I was there. V7 showed up at the end, although parts of V7 and PWB leaked
to us via different students who worked at Bell (that story was similar at
many sites).
which contained the functionality of both. I wonder why they were split?
Space?
Table space to support larger disk was always a huge problem. Since we
mostly ran UNIX on 11/40 class systems, it had to be able to run on non-I/D
(45 class) machines. A lot of creativity was used to keep it small. It was
fine for RK05s and RP03s but Ted's temp space hack was done when the first
RP04-like disk showed up - it was an IBM disk on an aftermarket Unibus
controller made to look like an RP in EE and then Dan Klein and I got the
very low serial # RK07 at Mellon Institute and that was my first Unix
driver which we hacked together one weekend.
ᐧ
4 Mar
4 Mar
2:45 a.m.
New subject: Unix v7 icheck dup problem
On Fri, Mar 03, 2023 at 02:35:37PM -0500, Clem Cole wrote:
It is difficult to determine when fsck appeared in the USG releases.
fsck was perhaps present in USG Program Generic PG-1C300 Issue 3
(March 1977), as it was in the MERT Release 0 manual:
https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Documentation/Manuals/MERT_Release_0/Unix%20Pr…
"I would like to thank Larry A. Wehr for advice that lead to the first
version of fsck and Rick B. Brandt for adapting fsck to UNIX/TS."
T. J. Kowalski, FSCK - The UNIX/TS File System Check Program
included in System III manuals
'Credit for the various pieces involved goes to Ted Kowalski of CMU and
BTL, Mike Accetta of CMU, and George Goble of Purdue Univ. Kowalski
wrote the "fsck," file system check program, which does all that
icheck/dcheck did and more and also repairs errors that it finds. In the
Purdue V6 system Goble had added code to ensure that inodes and indirect
blocks on disk were always in a consistent state so that the worst that
could happen in a sudden halt or crash was that the file system may have
some dups in free, but never dups between files. Accetta enhanced these
and added a few of his own.
In the current Berkeley distribution (4BSD) all of these techniques are
provided as well as some additions.'
Bill Joy, A Crash-resistant UNIX file system
https://archive.org/details/login_january-1981/page/30/mode/2up
Interesting. I wonder how 'fcheck' made
it from CMU to Bell?
The late Ted Kowaski - the primary author. Undergrad EE UMICH (Bill Joy's
roommate) and Grad EE at CMU (and my programming/lab partner originally in
Dan Sieworick's grad RT course and Gordon Bell System Architecture
courses). MTS and TSS had a disk scavenger from IBM for their common FS
[which Ted has used at MICH and I had CMU]. icheck/ncheck/dcheck seemed
less useful.
A new program was started when he was an undergrad and never finished.
It had more colorful name originally - fsck (pronounced as fisk BTW) was
finished. I suspect the fcheck name was a USG idea. The reason why many
of the error messages are upper case is that was the IBM convention which
both MTS and TSS used for system programs.
3 Mar
3 Mar
11 p.m.
New subject: Unix v7 icheck dup problem
On Fri, Mar 03, 2023 at 01:22:00PM -0500, Noel Chiappa wrote:
https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/Research/v7addenda.tar.gz
https://www.tuhs.org/cgi-bin/utree.pl?file=V7addenda/fsck
From: KenUnix
So is it safe to say there is no fsck or similar
for v7?
There was a version of 'fcheck' (are 'fsck' and 'fcheck'
the same program?)
for V7, but I don't know if it's available. It would be really easy to
convert the 'fcheck.c' that I put up to a V7 version; the V6 and V7 file
systems are almost identical, except for the block size, I think.
4 Mar
4 Mar
9:07 a.m.
New subject: Unix v7 icheck dup problem
On Fri, Mar 03, 2023 at 01:22:00PM -0500, Noel Chiappa wrote:
fcheck is from Hal Pierson at Bell according to
https://wiki.tuhs.org/doku.php?id=misc:snippets:mert1
https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/CB_Unix/readme.txt
From: Jonathan
Gray
That is close, but slightly different to the PWB
fcheck.c
Interesting. I wonder how 'fcheck' made it from CMU to Bell? Clem and I
discussed how it made it from CMU to MIT, and we think it was via Wayne
Gramlich, who'd been an undergrad at CMU, and then went to grad school at MIT.
11:19 a.m.
New subject: Unix v7 icheck dup problem
After downloading fsck.c from v7addenda.tar.gz this happens:
w fsck.c
33044
q
# cc fsck.c
fsck.c:1441: s_dinfo undefined; func. makefree
fsck.c:1441: Illegal structure ref
fsck.c:1441: Incompatible structures
fsck.c:1442: Illegal structure ref
fsck.c:1442: Incompatible structures
fsck.c:1453: s_dinfo undefined; func. makefree
fsck.c:1453: Illegal structure ref
fsck.c:1453: Incompatible structures
fsck.c:1454: Illegal structure ref
fsck.c:1454: Incompatible structures
fsck.c lines of interest 1440-1455:
#define superblk sblk.b_un.b_fs
if(cylsize == 0 || stepsize == 0) {
step = superblk.s_dinfo[0];
cyl = superblk.s_dinfo[1];
}
else {
step = stepsize;
cyl = cylsize;
}
if(step > cyl || step <= 0 || cyl <= 0 || cyl > MAXCYL) {
error("Default free list spacing assumed\n");
step = STEPSIZE;
cyl = CYLSIZE;
}
superblk.s_dinfo[0] = step;
superblk.s_dinfo[1] = cyl;
clear(flg,sizeof(flg));
#define superblk sblk.b_un.b_fs
Ken
On Sat, Mar 4, 2023 at 4:07 AM Jonathan Gray <jsg(a)jsg.id.au> wrote:
On Fri, Mar 03, 2023 at 01:22:00PM -0500, Noel Chiappa
wrote:
at
MIT.
fcheck is from Hal Pierson at Bell according to
https://wiki.tuhs.org/doku.php?id=misc:snippets:mert1
https://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Distributions/USDL/CB_Unix/readme.txt
--
End of line
JOB TERMINATED
From:
Jonathan Gray
That is close, but slightly different to the PWB
fcheck.c
Interesting. I wonder how 'fcheck' made it from CMU to Bell? Clem and I
discussed how it made it from CMU to MIT, and we think it was via Wayne
Gramlich, who'd been an undergrad at CMU, and then went to grad school
428
days inactive
429
days old
8 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
Chet Ramey -
Clem Cole -
jnc＠mercury.lcs.mit.edu -
John Cowan -
Jonathan Gray -
KenUnix