TUHS June 2000

tuhs@tuhs.org

15 participants
43 discussions

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

David O'Brien <obrien(a)NUXI.com> wrote: > That is a fine opinion, and one understandable. BUT, I don't see Joy, > McKusick, or Lefler on your list. Their work is an *extension* of the Ritchie/Thompson original UNIX, not a replacement. 3BSD through 4.3BSD are direct logical successors of V7/32V research UNIX. > So why is it again that you do 4.3BSD > rather than some System III/V [...] Because I believe that 3BSD through 4.3BSD are the real trunk successors of V7 and 32V, not System III and System V (more affectionately known as Missed'em- five as you can see in the Jargon File). True UNIX is Research UNIX, UNIX that is for research purposes, not commercial ones. The AT&T Education Software License I have buried in my desk somewhere prohibits any commercial use. System III and V deserted this True UNIX mission, but Berkeley UNIX picked it up instead. Exactly the same later happened with 4.4BSD and 4.3BSD-Quasijarus. -- Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force International Engineering and Science Task Force 615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4 DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office) E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)

23 years, 10 months

Re: PUPS/TUHS should not be divisive

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

kshuff <kshuff(a)fast.net> wrote: > That might be fine and dandy for you, but other people do not share > your views > and should not have to be criticized or belittled because they run > more "modern" > hardware and not true UNIX. We're not all living 20 years in the > past. Then why are you on this list? -- Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force International Engineering and Science Task Force 615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4 DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office) E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA93867 for pups-liszt; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 04:16:41 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "David O'Brien" <obrien(a)NUXI.com> Sun Jun 18 04:13:45 2000 Received: from relay.nuxi.com (root(a)nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA93858 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 04:16:36 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from obrien(a)NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (root(a)trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA65551; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 11:13:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien(a)dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id LAA05884; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 11:13:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 11:13:45 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" <obrien(a)NUXI.com> To: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: PUPS/TUHS should not be divisive Message-ID: <20000617111345.H69941(a)dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien(a)NUXI.com References: <0006171504.AA02620(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <0006171504.AA02620(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG>; from msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG on Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 10:04:30AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 10:04:30AM -0500, Michael Sokolov wrote: > If it isn't Ritchie and Thompson's original UNIX code, then it isn't UNIX. That is a fine opinion, and one understandable. BUT, I don't see Joy, McKusick, or Lefler on your list. So why is it again that you do 4.3BSD rather than some System III/V + 2BSD?? Joy & McKusick modified the AT&T kernel quite a bit. Or did you not know that they touched that code. -- -- David (obrien(a)NUXI.com) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id EAA94035 for pups-liszt; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 04:44:49 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

23 years, 10 months

Re: PUPS/TUHS should not be divisive

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

David O'Brien <obrien(a)NUXI.com> wrote: > Not to mention we owe the entire Open Source BSD availability to Keith. > > [snipped description of how Bostic, like a murderous American surgeon, cut > out with his butcher knife all the Holy Original True Pure UNIX(R) code, the > code that made BSD Berkeley UNIX(R) and not just some little mortal *BSD, > and replaced it with cheap plastic prostetics] It is *this* that I consider Bostic the killer of CSRG, of True BSD, and of True UNIX for. I don't fscking care whether you call it free or not. The True UNIX code is free to those who have access to it, in the sense that they can make arbitrary modifications to it and freely redistribute it within the circle of accessees. Pure UNIX is completely open source: it is not usable at all without the source, so everyone who has it has the source. Either you have the source or you don't run UNIX. No binary-only distributions. Previously the circle of UNIX accessees was limited to universities, but then they were the only ones who could afford the hardware needed to run UNIX and the electric bills that come with it, so this really wasn't an issue. Someone who wasn't part of a university with a UNIX source license was almost certainly in no position to run UNIX or have an interest in it anyway. Now the situation has changed, and many people run PDP-11s and VAXen on a hobbyist basis in their homes, but the licensing situation has changed accordingly too: now it's a free clickwrap license. If it isn't Ritchie and Thompson's original UNIX code, then it isn't UNIX. And I want UNIX, in four capitals with an R-in-circle superscript. I don't care about clones and workalikes and copycats. However "modern" they are, they are still mere clones and copycats. And I want the genuine article. -- Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force International Engineering and Science Task Force 615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4 DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office) E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA92914 for pups-liszt; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 01:24:42 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Soren S. Jorvang" <soren(a)wheel.dk> Sun Jun 18 01:21:41 2000 Received: from gnyf.wheel.dk (IDENT:root@gnyf.wheel.dk [193.162.159.104]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id BAA92910 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 01:24:38 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from soren(a)gnyf.wheel.dk) Received: (from soren@localhost) by gnyf.wheel.dk (8.9.1/8.9.1) id RAA24275; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 17:21:41 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 17:21:41 +0200 From: "Soren S. Jorvang" <soren(a)wheel.dk> To: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: PUPS/TUHS should not be divisive Message-ID: <20000617172141.A24254(a)gnyf.wheel.dk> References: <0006171504.AA02620(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1i In-Reply-To: <0006171504.AA02620(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG>; from msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG on Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 10:04:30AM -0500 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 10:04:30AM -0500, Michael Sokolov wrote: > I think now is a good time for you to leave the PUPS list. -- Soren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA93266 for pups-liszt; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 02:07:23 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Mike Allison" <mallison(a)konnections.com> Sun Jun 18 02:05:01 2000 Received: from mail.konnections.com (mail.konnections.com [207.173.185.6]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA93262 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 02:07:19 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from mallison(a)konnections.com) Received: from oemcomputer (ip122-171.konnections.com [209.63.122.171]) by mail.konnections.com (8.9.1/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA16996; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 09:56:54 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from mallison(a)konnections.com) Message-ID: <007901bfd875$cb8aaea0$ab7a3fd1@oemcomputer> From: "Mike Allison" <mallison(a)konnections.com> To: "Michael Sokolov" <msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG>, <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: PUPS/TUHS should not be divisive Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:05:01 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk I think I understand what Michael is saying. Or at least it means something to me. I don't have a lot vested here, nor have I always followed the issues with PUPS and now TUHS. Certainly a big part of this was running AT&T UNIX systems on these machines. And, TUHS might only ever be about UNIX as UNIX (R). The fact that you COULD run a unix clone -- Linux, Open BSD, what have you is fine. We can argue that true BSD was a set of improvements or additions to UNIX which may even have been sanctioned in part by the UNIX team. But the fact that you run Linux, Open BSD, MINIX or a MSDOS clone is not pertinent to running UNIX System N.n Using the GNU C Compiler is not pertinent to the AT&T K&R C compiler, per se. Is the ultimate purpose then of the list to keep the machines running regardless of OS, or to run AT&T UNIX on these systems. I won't fault Michael for his perspective. But I guess we should agree to define the parameters of the list, or agree NOT to define them. Just one insignificant soul's opinion (JOISO) -Mike Mike Allison Stranded in Utah, USA -----Original Message----- From: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Date: Saturday, June 17, 2000 9:09 AM Subject: Re: PUPS/TUHS should not be divisive >If it isn't Ritchie and Thompson's original UNIX code, then it isn't UNIX. And >I want UNIX, in four capitals with an R-in-circle superscript. I don't care >about clones and workalikes and copycats. However "modern" they are, they are >still mere clones and copycats. And I want the genuine article. > Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA93311 for pups-liszt; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 02:20:27 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG> Sat Jun 17 09:09:00 2000 Received: from post3.fast.net (post3.fast.net [198.69.204.24]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA93307 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 02:20:23 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from kshuff(a)fast.net) Received: from homer (maxtnt14-abe-489.fast.net [209.92.93.235]) by post3.fast.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA01931 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 12:17:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <394BA7D6.52DD(a)fast.net> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 12:31:18 -0400 From: kshuff <kshuff(a)fast.net> Reply-To: kshuff(a)fast.net Organization: I'm not organized X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0Gold (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: PUPS/TUHS should not be divisive References: <0006171504.AA02620(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Michael Sokolov wrote: > If it isn't Ritchie and Thompson's original UNIX code, then it isn't UNIX. And > I want UNIX, in four capitals with an R-in-circle superscript. I don't care > about clones and workalikes and copycats. However "modern" they are, they are > still mere clones and copycats. And I want the genuine article. > That might be fine and dandy for you, but other people do not share your views and should not have to be criticized or belittled because they run more "modern" hardware and not true UNIX. We're not all living 20 years in the past. K.S. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id DAA93671 for pups-liszt; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 03:38:21 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

23 years, 10 months

Re: The Unix History Graphing Project...

by pups＠mrynet.com

> On Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 03:41:27PM -0500, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> wrote: > > > > > Is there a readable (meaning "not source code") history of *.*BSD > > > on the McCusick CD set? Most of the comment-type entries in the > > > Unix History Graphing Project for the BSD releases are pretty good, > > > but not real complete. > > > > The line of True UNIX development is straight: > > > > V6 -> V7 -> 3BSD -> 4.0BSD -> 4.1BSD -> 4.2BSD -> 4.3BSD -> 4.3BSD-Tahoe -> > > 4.3BSD-Quasijarus > > > > There is also a branch which I call Bostic BSD, resulting from Keith Bostic > > taking over CSRG and killing it, that goes: > > [... and more spewage ...] > > I would like to ask that Mr. Solokov's association with the PUPS and TUHS > projects be ended if he can not restrain himself from posting inflammatory > material of this nature on the lists. > > Thor I second some form of censure here. I already filter this person's email when I can, via my mail handler and client, but I am still subjected to his non-constructive constant arrogance when included in other's replies. Obviously I find his tact, social skills, and ethics reprehensible or I wouldn't have bothered taking the measures I have. Simply put, people are welcome to their opinions, but his are bordering anti-social and are downright rude and insulting. Everyone is welcome to opinions and points-of-view, but having such shoved in faces at every opportunity is intolerable. Regards, Scott G. Taylor Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA89002 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 09:13:49 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "David O'Brien" <obrien(a)NUXI.com> Sat Jun 17 09:10:53 2000 Received: from relay.nuxi.com (root(a)nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA88997 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 09:13:45 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from obrien(a)NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (root(a)trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA59906 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 16:10:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien(a)dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA68731 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 16:10:53 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 16:10:53 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" <obrien(a)NUXI.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: The Unix History Graphing Project... Message-ID: <20000616161053.F35577(a)dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien(a)NUXI.com References: <0006162041.AA01624(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG> <20000616174408.A20743(a)rek.tjls.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000616174408.A20743(a)rek.tjls.com>; from tls(a)rek.tjls.com on Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 05:44:08PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 05:44:08PM -0400, Thor Lancelot Simon wrote: > > > Most of the comment-type entries in the Unix History Graphing > > > Project for the BSD releases are pretty good, but not real > > > complete. > > > > The line of True UNIX development is straight: > > > > V6 -> V7 -> 3BSD -> 4.0BSD -> 4.1BSD -> 4.2BSD -> 4.3BSD -> 4.3BSD-Tahoe -> > > 4.3BSD-Quasijarus > > > > There is also a branch which I call Bostic BSD, resulting from Keith Bostic > > taking over CSRG and killing it, that goes: > > [... and more spewage ...] > > I would like to ask that Mr. Solokov's association with the PUPS and TUHS > projects be ended if he can not restrain himself from posting inflammatory > material of this nature on the lists. I have to agree. From his emails, Mr. Solokov is a rather rabid individual. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA89013 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 09:14:36 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "David O'Brien" <obrien(a)NUXI.com> Sat Jun 17 09:11:45 2000 Received: from relay.nuxi.com (root(a)nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA89009 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 09:14:31 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from obrien(a)NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (root(a)trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA59924; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 16:11:46 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien(a)dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id QAA68746; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 16:11:45 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 16:11:45 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" <obrien(a)NUXI.com> To: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: 4.4BSD-Alpha Message-ID: <20000616161145.G35577(a)dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien(a)NUXI.com References: <0006161927.AA01375(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <0006161927.AA01375(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG>; from msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG on Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 02:27:54PM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 02:27:54PM -0500, Michael Sokolov wrote: > I know this of course, I have one. Of course you do, but others may not. So why are you wasting my disk space with this email? Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA89383 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:24:15 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "A. P. Garcia" <apgarcia(a)hackaholic.org> Sat Jun 17 10:16:48 2000 Received: from hackaholic.org (IDENT:qmailr@d174.as1.nwbl0.wi.voyager.net [169.207.130.240]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA89379 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:24:10 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from apgarcia(a)hackaholic.org) Received: (qmail 484 invoked by uid 501); 17 Jun 2000 00:16:48 -0000 From: "A. P. Garcia" <apgarcia(a)hackaholic.org> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: The Unix History Graphing Project... References: <0006162041.AA01624(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG> <20000616174408.A20743(a)rek.tjls.com> <20000616161053.F35577(a)dragon.nuxi.com> Date: 17 Jun 2000 00:16:48 +0000 In-Reply-To: "David O'Brien"'s message of "Fri, 16 Jun 2000 16:10:53 -0700" Message-ID: <m2wvjp88lr.fsf(a)localhost.localdomain> User-Agent: Gnus/5.0804 (Gnus v5.8.4) Emacs/20.6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk "David O'Brien" <obrien(a)NUXI.com> writes: > > I would like to ask that Mr. Solokov's association with the PUPS and TUHS > > projects be ended if he can not restrain himself from posting inflammatory > > material of this nature on the lists. > > I have to agree. From his emails, Mr. Solokov is a rather rabid individual. No, I agree with whomever it was - I think Patrick Henry - that said something like "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." You can always send his mail to /dev/null if you don't like it. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA89414 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:31:43 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Sat Jun 17 10:28:59 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA89410 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:31:41 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.3) id KAA55686 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:28:59 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200006170028.KAA55686(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: PUPS/TUHS should not be divisive In-Reply-To: <20000616174408.A20743(a)rek.tjls.com> from Thor Lancelot Simon at "Jun 16, 2000 5:44: 8 pm" To: Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:28:59 +1000 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Thor Lancelot Simon: > On Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 03:41:27PM -0500, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > The line of True UNIX development is straight: > > V6 -> V7 -> 3BSD -> 4.0BSD -> 4.1BSD -> 4.2BSD -> 4.3BSD -> 4.3BSD-Tahoe -> > > 4.3BSD-Quasijarus > I would like to ask that Mr. Solokov's association with the PUPS and TUHS > projects be ended if he can not restrain himself from posting inflammatory > material of this nature on the lists. > Thor While I do not agree with Michael's particular beliefs about True UNIX, as I wear the hat of UNIX Heritage Society, I want to encourage his efforts on 4.3BSD-Quasijarus, as I do with 2.11BSD, NetBSD etc etc. Michael, in order to ease the tension in the mailing lists, would it be possible for you to write a web (or ftp) page describing your beliefs, so that interested people can go read it. For example, in future mailings you could say: As you know, I believe True UNIX flows from V6 to 4.3BSD but not to 4.4BSD, see http://xxx.xxx.xxx for details. I'm not asking you to moderate your beliefs or stop espousing them, but I would rather keep the mailing list inclusive rather than divisive. For the other readers of this list, it is not possible to stop subscribers from saying whatever they want. Therefore, if you feel offended, please try to take any strong exchange of views out of the list. For example, you might post something like: In article by Joe Bloe: > I think turtles are ugly. I disagree violently with this person's views, and I'll take this discussion off-line, so as to keep in charter with the mailing list. I will also change the mailing lists's on-line charter to be inclusive and not divisive. Finally, we now have pups@ (PDP-11 stuff) and tuhs@ (generic Unix stuff, which includes discussion on the Archive). The original posting, and all the followups, should have gone to tuhs@, so please send your mails to the right list!!! Thank you, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA89425 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:32:05 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Sat Jun 17 10:29:13 2000 Received: from timaxp.trailing-edge.com (timaxp.trailing-edge.com [63.73.218.130]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA89421 for <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU>; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:32:01 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from SHOPPA(a)timaxp.trailing-edge.com) Received: by timaxp.trailing-edge.com for PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:29:13 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 20:29:13 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU Message-Id: <000616202913.262000b0(a)trailing-edge.com> Subject: Re: Yet Another "where does it fit" question Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Yesterday I asked: >Two tapes labeled "Vol 1 of 2" and "Vol 2 of 2" and then "2.10.2 SMS >Unix". Steven, does this mean you know what's on this and how it's >different than the 2.10 and 2.10.1 stuff already in the archive? :-) Terry >didn't remember... Now that I've read the tapes, this is a 1990-ish step halfway between 2.10.1 and 2.11, as developed by Steven Schultz (and debugged by Terry on his 11/70, judging from the comments.) Is this something worthwhile to put in the archive? At the moment, looking at the timeline of PDP-11 Unices currently in the archive, we have at the "fairly recent" end: 2.9 from 1983 2.9.1BSD from 1983 2.10BSD from 1987 2.10.1BSD from 1989 2.11BSD from the past year Would it be a worthwhile thing to put 2.10.2 up as an intermediate step filling in the ten year gap between 2.10.1 and the current 2.11? I'm worried that whenever I find a metric buttload of Unix tapes that my proposals of adding everything in them to the archive may just be adding too much volume that folks simply aren't interested in. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA89441 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:33:58 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Sat Jun 17 10:07:24 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA89437 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:33:56 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.3) id KAA55766 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:31:14 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA89331; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:10:15 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.3) id KAA55558; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:07:24 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200006170007.KAA55558(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: Digest? In-Reply-To: <394A3D26.86E79289(a)home.com> from Robert Porter at "Jun 16, 2000 7:43:50 am" To: robport(a)home.com (Robert Porter) Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 10:07:24 +1000 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (Unix Heritage Society), tuhs(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Robert Porter: > Is there a way to unsubscribe from the PUPS/TUHS lists and subscribe to some > sort of digest? I just can't handle this amount of traffic (much more email > than I get otherwise). Send mail to majordomo(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au with the lines: unsubscribe tuhs unsubscribe pups subscribe pups-digest subscribe tuhs-digest Cheers! Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA89882 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 12:12:25 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Sat Jun 17 12:09:00 2000 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA89878 for <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU>; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 12:12:20 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from sms(a)moe.2bsd.com) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA24691; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 19:09:00 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 19:09:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200006170209.TAA24691(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU, SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com Subject: Re: Yet Another "where does it fit" question Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi -- I hope I'm in the right mailing list :) > From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> > Yesterday I asked: > > >Two tapes labeled "Vol 1 of 2" and "Vol 2 of 2" and then "2.10.2 SMS > >Unix". Steven, does this mean you know what's on this and how it's > >different than the 2.10 and 2.10.1 stuff already in the archive? :-) Terry > >didn't remember... > > Now that I've read the tapes, this is a 1990-ish step halfway between > 2.10.1 and 2.11, as developed by Steven Schultz (and debugged by > Terry on his 11/70, judging from the comments.) Is this something You beat me to it - I was going to respond earlier but got distracted ("real work" the boss wanted ;)). It's more than half way to 2.11 though. Probably closer to 80 or 90%. The work had been going on for a year or more since 2.10.1 came out and I was all set to distribute it on my own when one of the last folks at the CSRG said it should be 2.11 (based on the size and number of changes) and a BSD release with USENIX handling the license issues and distribution. There aren't many major differences between 2.10.2SMS and what would be 2.11BSD a few months later (towards the end of 1990 or beginning of 1991). > timeline of PDP-11 Unices currently in the archive, we have at the > "fairly recent" end: > > 2.9 from 1983 > 2.9.1BSD from 1983 > 2.10BSD from 1987 > 2.10.1BSD from 1989 2.10.2.SMS goes till about the end of 1990 or beginning of 1991 > Would it be a worthwhile thing to put 2.10.2 up as an intermediate > step filling in the ten year gap between 2.10.1 and the current 2.11? I think it would be - I didn't save a copy for myself ;) A "diff -r" of that against the first 2.11 tape (which I think I might have somewhere) would be interesting to do some time. Steven Schultz sms(a)moe.2bsd.com Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA90344 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 13:22:56 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Thor Lancelot Simon <tls(a)rek.tjls.com> Sat Jun 17 13:20:04 2000 Received: from mail2.panix.com (mail2.panix.com [166.84.0.213]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA90340 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 13:22:51 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from tls(a)panix.com) Received: from panix3.panix.com (panix3.panix.com [166.84.0.228]) by mail2.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F31515509; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 23:20:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tls@localhost) by panix3.panix.com (8.8.8/8.7.1/PanixN1.0) id XAA05112; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 23:20:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 23:20:04 -0400 From: Thor Lancelot Simon <tls(a)rek.tjls.com> To: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: PUPS/TUHS should not be divisive Message-ID: <20000616232004.A4545(a)rek.tjls.com> Reply-To: tls(a)rek.tjls.com References: <20000616174408.A20743(a)rek.tjls.com> <200006170028.KAA55686(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <200006170028.KAA55686(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au>; from wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au on Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 10:28:59AM +1000 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 10:28:59AM +1000, Warren Toomey wrote: > In article by Thor Lancelot Simon: > > On Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 03:41:27PM -0500, Michael Sokolov wrote: > > > The line of True UNIX development is straight: > > > V6 -> V7 -> 3BSD -> 4.0BSD -> 4.1BSD -> 4.2BSD -> 4.3BSD -> 4.3BSD-Tahoe -> > > > 4.3BSD-Quasijarus > > I would like to ask that Mr. Solokov's association with the PUPS and TUHS > > projects be ended if he can not restrain himself from posting inflammatory > > material of this nature on the lists. > > Thor > > While I do not agree with Michael's particular beliefs about True UNIX, as > I wear the hat of UNIX Heritage Society, I want to encourage his efforts on > 4.3BSD-Quasijarus, as I do with 2.11BSD, NetBSD etc etc. While I largely agree with your sentiments, I note that in responding to my text above you have clipped out Michael's direct personal attack on Keith Bostic. I find this, um, fascinating. I'll also note that denying Mr. Solokov *this particular forum* for the spewage of his venom is hardly the kind of governmental interference with speech that another poster's quotation decried. I don't see why PUPS/TUHS should provide a general soapbox for shouting insults at the people who did a lot of the work PUPS/TUHS collect, catalog, and preserve. Thor Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA90790 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 14:57:58 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "David O'Brien" <obrien(a)NUXI.com> Sat Jun 17 14:55:04 2000 Received: from relay.nuxi.com (root(a)nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA90786 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 14:57:54 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from obrien(a)NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (root(a)trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA60868 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 21:55:06 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien(a)dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id VAA69857 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 21:55:04 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 21:55:04 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" <obrien(a)NUXI.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: PUPS/TUHS should not be divisive Message-ID: <20000616215504.I35577(a)dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien(a)NUXI.com References: <20000616174408.A20743(a)rek.tjls.com> <200006170028.KAA55686(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> <20000616232004.A4545(a)rek.tjls.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <20000616232004.A4545(a)rek.tjls.com>; from tls(a)rek.tjls.com on Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 11:20:04PM -0400 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 11:20:04PM -0400, Thor Lancelot Simon wrote: > I don't see why PUPS/TUHS should provide a general soapbox for shouting > insults at the people who did a lot of the work PUPS/TUHS collect, > catalog, and preserve. Not to mention we owe the entire Open Source BSD availability to Keith. Those that have not heard Kirk McKusick's "History of UNIX at Berkeley" talk should go read his "Twenty Years of Berkeley Unix From AT&T-Owned to Freely Redistributable" chapter in "Open Sources: Voices from the Open Source Revolution". This is on-line at http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/kirkmck.html. To quote: During one of our weekly group meetings at the CSRG, Keith Bostic brought up the subject of the popularity of the freely-redistributable networking release and inquired about the possibility of doing an expanded release that included more of the BSD code. Mike Karels and I pointed out to Bostic that releasing large parts of the system was a huge task, but we agreed that if he could sort out how to deal with reimplementing the hundreds of utilities and the massive C library then we would tackle the kernel. Privately, Karels and I felt that would be the end of the discussion. Undeterred, Bostic pioneered the technique of doing a mass net-based development effort. He solicited folks to rewrite the Unix utilities from scratch based solely on their published descriptions. Their only compensation would be to have their name listed among the Berkeley contributors next to the name of the utility that they rewrote. The contributions started slowly and were mostly for the trivial utilities. But as the list of completed utilities grew and Bostic continued to hold forth for contributions at public events such as Usenix, the rate of contributions continued to grow. Soon the list crossed one hundred utilities and within 18 months nearly all the important utilities and libraries had been rewritten. Proudly, Bostic marched into Mike Karels' and my office, list in hand, wanting to know how we were doing on the kernel. Resigned to our task, Karels, Bostic, and I spent the next several months going over the entire distribution, file by file, removing code that had originated in the 32/V release. With what we owe him, I do not think any continual bad mouthing of Keith should be tolerated. -- -- David (obrien(a)NUXI.com) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA91896 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 20:42:16 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Sat Jun 17 20:38:09 2000 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA91892 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 20:42:11 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk) Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 133G0Y-000AxM-0X; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 11:39:23 +0100 Message-ID: <Hf1bqXARU1S5EwcL(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 11:38:09 +0100 To: obrien(a)NUXI.com Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Subject: Re: PUPS/TUHS should not be divisive References: <20000616174408.A20743(a)rek.tjls.com> <200006170028.KAA55686(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> <20000616232004.A4545(a)rek.tjls.com> <20000616215504.I35577(a)dragon.nuxi.com> In-Reply-To: <20000616215504.I35577(a)dragon.nuxi.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U <YSkKJATYm0AxAbv6xwlBrCeVCW> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In message <20000616215504.I35577(a)dragon.nuxi.com>, David O'Brien <obrien(a)NUXI.com> writes >On Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 11:20:04PM -0400, Thor Lancelot Simon wrote: >> I don't see why PUPS/TUHS should provide a general soapbox for shouting >> insults at the people who did a lot of the work PUPS/TUHS collect, >> catalog, and preserve. > >Not to mention we owe the entire Open Source BSD availability to Keith. > >Those that have not heard Kirk McKusick's "History of UNIX at Berkeley" >talk should go read his "Twenty Years of Berkeley Unix From AT&T-Owned to >Freely Redistributable" chapter in "Open Sources: Voices from the Open >Source Revolution". This is on-line at >http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/kirkmck.html. To quote: > > During one of our weekly group meetings at the CSRG, Keith Bostic > brought up the subject of the popularity of the > freely-redistributable networking release and inquired about the > possibility of doing an expanded release that included more of the > BSD code. Mike Karels and I pointed out to Bostic that releasing > large parts of the system was a huge task, but we agreed that if he > could sort out how to deal with reimplementing the hundreds of > utilities and the massive C library then we would tackle the kernel. > Privately, Karels and I felt that would be the end of the discussion. > > Undeterred, Bostic pioneered the technique of doing a mass net-based > development effort. He solicited folks to rewrite the Unix utilities > from scratch based solely on their published descriptions. Their > only compensation would be to have their name listed among the > Berkeley contributors next to the name of the utility that they > rewrote. The contributions started slowly and were mostly for the > trivial utilities. But as the list of completed utilities grew and > Bostic continued to hold forth for contributions at public events > such as Usenix, the rate of contributions continued to grow. Soon > the list crossed one hundred utilities and within 18 months nearly > all the important utilities and libraries had been rewritten. > > Proudly, Bostic marched into Mike Karels' and my office, list in > hand, wanting to know how we were doing on the kernel. Resigned to > our task, Karels, Bostic, and I spent the next several months going > over the entire distribution, file by file, removing code that had > originated in the 32/V release. > >With what we owe him, I do not think any continual bad mouthing of Keith >should be tolerated. > Seconded!!! ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA91880 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 20:40:26 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Sat Jun 17 20:36:15 2000 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net (anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net [194.217.242.91]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA91876 for <PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 20:40:20 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk) Received: from falstaf.demon.co.uk ([158.152.152.109]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 133Fyd-000Auo-0X; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 11:37:24 +0100 Message-ID: <G$mbSLAfS1S5EweW(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Date: Sat, 17 Jun 2000 11:36:15 +0100 To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au, SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com From: Robin Birch <robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk> Subject: Re: Yet Another "where does it fit" question References: <200006170209.TAA24691(a)moe.2bsd.com> In-Reply-To: <200006170209.TAA24691(a)moe.2bsd.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.00 U <YSkKJATYm0AxAbv6xwlBrCeVCW> Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In message <200006170209.TAA24691(a)moe.2bsd.com>, Steven M. Schultz <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> writes >Hi -- > > I hope I'm in the right mailing list :) > >> From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> >> Yesterday I asked: >> >> >Two tapes labeled "Vol 1 of 2" and "Vol 2 of 2" and then "2.10.2 SMS >> >Unix". Steven, does this mean you know what's on this and how it's >> >different than the 2.10 and 2.10.1 stuff already in the archive? :-) Terry >> >didn't remember... >> >> Now that I've read the tapes, this is a 1990-ish step halfway between >> 2.10.1 and 2.11, as developed by Steven Schultz (and debugged by >> Terry on his 11/70, judging from the comments.) Is this something > I think it would be - I didn't save a copy for myself ;) > For what it's worth I think this brings in an interesting branch to the archive. Should there be a space for stuff we should hold for purely historical reference purposes and a different one for stuff that would normally be interesting to the average user group punter?. This might have some effects on the archive structure. Robin ____________________________________________________________________ Robin Birch robin(a)ruffnready.co.uk M1ASU/2E0ARJ/M5ABD Old computers and radios always welcome Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id BAA92845 for pups-liszt; Sun, 18 Jun 2000 01:08:39 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

23 years, 10 months

Re: The Unix History Graphing Project...

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> wrote: > Is there a readable (meaning "not source code") history of *.*BSD > on the McCusick CD set? Most of the comment-type entries in the > Unix History Graphing Project for the BSD releases are pretty good, > but not real complete. The line of True UNIX development is straight: V6 -> V7 -> 3BSD -> 4.0BSD -> 4.1BSD -> 4.2BSD -> 4.3BSD -> 4.3BSD-Tahoe -> 4.3BSD-Quasijarus There is also a branch which I call Bostic BSD, resulting from Keith Bostic taking over CSRG and killing it, that goes: 4.BSD-Tahoe -> Net/1 -> 4.3BSD-Reno -> Net/2 -> 4.4BSD-Alpha -> 4.4BSD 1BSD and 2BSD were collections of userland bits without a kernel or a compiler toolchain or anything else that defines a system and its hardware platform, so it's generally incorrect to consider them as versions of UNIX, much less as versions of PDP-11 UNIX. They were bits to be added to an existing UNIX system, which could conceptualy be anything, although V6 and V7 for the PDP-11 were the intended targets. Berkeley UNIX never ran on PDP-11s, only on VAXen, that is, there has never been a Berkeley UNIX kernel or compiler toolchain for the PDP-11, only for the VAX. As for 2.xBSD, that's an ex-post-facto backport of BSD UNIX to PDP-11s, ex-post-facto in the sense that it was made after the torch of UNIX passed from PDP-11 to VAX, and is a human-alien hybrid of PDP-11 V7 on steroids with dumbed down VAX 4.xBSD. It comes nowhere near to mainline UNIX or mainline BSD. -- Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force International Engineering and Science Task Force 615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4 DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office) E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id HAA88616 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 07:47:06 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Thor Lancelot Simon <tls(a)rek.tjls.com> Sat Jun 17 07:44:08 2000 Received: from mail2.panix.com (mail2.panix.com [166.84.0.213]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA88612 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 07:46:59 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from tls(a)panix.com) Received: from panix3.panix.com (panix3.panix.com [166.84.0.228]) by mail2.panix.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86CB6155AB for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 17:44:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from tls@localhost) by panix3.panix.com (8.8.8/8.7.1/PanixN1.0) id RAA20868 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 17:44:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 17:44:08 -0400 From: Thor Lancelot Simon <tls(a)rek.tjls.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: The Unix History Graphing Project... Message-ID: <20000616174408.A20743(a)rek.tjls.com> Reply-To: tls(a)rek.tjls.com References: <0006162041.AA01624(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <0006162041.AA01624(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG>; from msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG on Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 03:41:27PM -0500 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 03:41:27PM -0500, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> wrote: > > > Is there a readable (meaning "not source code") history of *.*BSD > > on the McCusick CD set? Most of the comment-type entries in the > > Unix History Graphing Project for the BSD releases are pretty good, > > but not real complete. > > The line of True UNIX development is straight: > > V6 -> V7 -> 3BSD -> 4.0BSD -> 4.1BSD -> 4.2BSD -> 4.3BSD -> 4.3BSD-Tahoe -> > 4.3BSD-Quasijarus > > There is also a branch which I call Bostic BSD, resulting from Keith Bostic > taking over CSRG and killing it, that goes: [... and more spewage ...] I would like to ask that Mr. Solokov's association with the PUPS and TUHS projects be ended if he can not restrain himself from posting inflammatory material of this nature on the lists. Thor Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA88970 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 09:05:53 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

23 years, 10 months

4.4BSD-Alpha in the TUHS/PUPS archive 4BSD area

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Quasijarus Consortium members and TUHS/PUPS archive users, Today Tim Shoppa has read the HP300 4.4BSD-Alpha distribution on a 9-track 6250 BPI tape and I have just put it in the archive. It is in Distributions/4bsd/4.4BSD-Alpha Of course we generally don't do 4.4BSD, but we do include it in the archival and preservation section of our project. -- Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force International Engineering and Science Task Force 615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4 DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office) E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA88281 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:18:49 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Sat Jun 17 06:16:00 2000 Received: from timaxp.trailing-edge.com (timaxp.trailing-edge.com [63.73.218.130]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA88277 for <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU>; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:18:45 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from SHOPPA(a)timaxp.trailing-edge.com) Received: by timaxp.trailing-edge.com for PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 16:16:00 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 16:16:00 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU Message-Id: <000616161600.262000b2(a)trailing-edge.com> Subject: The Unix History Graphing Project... Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk >It may have already been discussed before, but here is the list of >distirbutions on McKusick's "The CSRG Archives" 4-CD set: > >1BSD, 2BSD, 3BSD, 2.9pucc, 2.10, 2.79, 2.8, 2.9, 4.0, 4.1, 4.1a, 4.1c.1, >4.1c.2, 4.1.snap, 4.2, 4.3, VM.snapshot.1, VM.snapshot.2, 4.3Tahoe, >4.3Reno, Net/1, Net/2, 4.4, 4.4-Lite1, 4.4-Lite2, and /usr/src SCCS >files. That suggestion got me looking at "The Unix History Graphing Project" at http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/Unix_History/index.html Is there a readable (meaning "not source code") history of *.*BSD on the McCusick CD set? Most of the comment-type entries in the Unix History Graphing Project for the BSD releases are pretty good, but not real complete. Do any of the Ultrix versions show up somewhere in the The Unix History Graphing project? I know that they're offshoots from 2BSD and 4BSD, but I wouldn't mind seeing someone annotate when they shot off and what was changed/added/deleted. (Did I just volunteer?!?) Another history question: Anyone know if there's any 2.9BSD-Seismo distributions kicking around? Tim. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id GAA88374 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 06:45:23 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

23 years, 10 months

Re: 4.4BSD-Alpha

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

David O'Brien <obrien(a)NUXI.com> wrote: > It may have already been discussed before, but here is the list of > distirbutions on McKusick's "The CSRG Archives" 4-CD set: > > 1BSD, 2BSD, 3BSD, 2.9pucc, 2.10, 2.79, 2.8, 2.9, 4.0, 4.1, 4.1a, 4.1c.1, > 4.1c.2, 4.1.snap, 4.2, 4.3, VM.snapshot.1, VM.snapshot.2, 4.3Tahoe, > 4.3Reno, Net/1, Net/2, 4.4, 4.4-Lite1, 4.4-Lite2, and /usr/src SCCS > files. I know this of course, I have one. -- Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force International Engineering and Science Task Force 615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4 DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office) E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon)

23 years, 10 months

Re: 4.4BSD-Alpha

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> wrote: > I found a separate tape, labeled "August 23, 1992", with a matching cover > letter (signed by Kirk McKusick) saying "This is a distribution tape > for the 4.4BSD-Alpha release ... The binaries and kernel on the > tape support the HP 9000/300 68000-based workstations...". Is this > the holy grail? OK, I dunno whether it qualifies as "the holy grail" or not, but yes, it is the 4.4BSD-Alpha dist. > I would guess the "4.4BSD snapshot 4/1/92" is pre-release. OK, just upload both if you can, I'll be happy to put them in the archive and I'm sure Warren will be too. -- Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force International Engineering and Science Task Force 615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4 DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office) E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id CAA84892 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 02:42:25 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "Jason T. Miller" <jasomill(a)shaffstall.com> Sat Jun 17 02:31:18 2000 Received: from sam.on-net.net (sam.on-net.net [204.117.190.8]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA84888 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 02:42:21 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from jasomill(a)shaffstall.com) Received: from guildenstern.shaffstall.com (cisdn-2 [206.229.84.2]) by sam.on-net.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA05790 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 11:37:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 11:31:18 -0500 (EST) From: "Jason T. Miller" <jasomill(a)shaffstall.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: RX50 vocoder timing; FreeBSD kernel woes Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.10.10006161046320.22889-100000(a)guildenstern.shaffstall.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Sorry in advance if you unintentionally deleted this message because of the topic, I'm an incorrigable smart-arse and couldn't resist. My other idea was ILOVEYOU, but that's been done before... > This thread has gotten *way* beyond what I (and I'll bet many others) > read this list for. The initiator of this post was yours truly. I have been silet since this post. I hate politics. I figured, "just let it simmer down and then rationally respond." I hate flamefesten. Sorry. Can't please everybody all the time. Hey, I don't even try, most of the time. I find that sitting on the fence can be quite an uncomfortable position to be in, especially if you're on one of the fenceposts. But, wie immer, I digress. I didn't mean to crowd your (that is, the royal "your") mailbox with my hardware woes. I had some issues, directly related to my _usage_ of PDP-11 UNIX, and, insofar as both the mentioned PDP-11 mailing list and the DECUS PDP-11 list on eisner.decus.org are both ghost towns, and several members of this mailing list seem to know quite a bit about both the hardware platform and the software I choose to run (2.11BSD), I dreamt of things that never were and said "why not." Thanks to the knowledge of fellow list-members, my questions were answered, my problem was solved, and the result is now available in the PUPS archive under Tools/Disks/rx50-FreeBSD.tar.gz (no comments on code quality to the group, please; that would be off-topic [read: embarassing] :) Qs and Cs to jasomill(a)indiana.edu welcome), which is useful to me and may possibly be of some interest to other PDP-11 UNIX hobbyists trying to solve the same problem. I read the entire PUPS mailing list archive before making my first post. I've noticed that the top three platform-specific topics seem to be (in order of appearance): 1) emulator software 2) VAX hardware 3) PDP hardware I don't use an emulator and I don't have a VAX (though I want one very very much, but admittably to run VMS mostly), but the discussions don't bother me. As a matter of fact, some of them interest me; those that don't, I skip. Anyway, just an observation. I know it's not the PHPS, but I can not be dissuaded in my belief that actually _using_ the systems is a vital part of a living preservation effort, and using them without functional hardware is a bit difficult, emulators notwithstanding. But please don't deactivate me :), I'll read a UHS list and a PUPS list and a VAX list and an RT-PC list (I've been wanting to get my hands on one of those buggers for awhile, actually), desirous of everything at the same time, and try my best not to yawn and say commonplace things (apologizes to Jack Kerouac). Thanks again for help and interesting discussion, to all parties involved, mad to talk or less so. What about archiving PDP hardware information? I don't mean discussing obscure timing details of RK05 controllers or anything, but having a section of the archive for random hardware tidbits re: PDP. It's not _directly_ related to UNIX preservation, but it'd be a boon to PDP UNIX users (not to mention keeping list traffic down in re: these things), and its space requirements are miniscule. Maybe wait until the PDP-specific stuff is split off, and create a directory. I'd be happy to maintain it (I'm also attempting to contact DEC ne Compaq about getting some legacy docs released; those, of course, would be included; no, that's not what Mentec bought, I don't think, that's RSX and RSTS/E and RT-11, maybe even Ultrix. They provide engineering support to DEC PDP-11 customers as well as compatible hardware, but I believe Compaq still owns the copyrights to the Digital hardware documentation. Not 100% sure though). Once again, sorry, once again, thanks, and in closing, AWWWW, jasomill Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA87825 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 05:14:27 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From "David O'Brien" <obrien(a)NUXI.com> Sat Jun 17 05:11:28 2000 Received: from relay.nuxi.com (root(a)nuxi.cs.ucdavis.edu [169.237.7.38]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA87821 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 05:14:22 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from obrien(a)NUXI.com) Received: from dragon.nuxi.com (root(a)trang.nuxi.com [209.152.133.57]) by relay.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA58858 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:11:35 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien(a)dragon.nuxi.com) Received: (from obrien@localhost) by dragon.nuxi.com (8.9.3/8.9.1) id MAA67489 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:11:28 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from obrien) Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 12:11:28 -0700 From: "David O'Brien" <obrien(a)NUXI.com> To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: 4.4BSD-Alpha Message-ID: <20000616121128.A35577(a)dragon.nuxi.com> Reply-To: obrien(a)NUXI.com References: <0006161444.AA00776(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline User-Agent: Mutt/1.2i In-Reply-To: <0006161444.AA00776(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG>; from msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG on Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 09:44:07AM -0500 X-Operating-System: FreeBSD 5.0-CURRENT Organization: The NUXI BSD group X-PGP-Fingerprint: B7 4D 3E E9 11 39 5F A3 90 76 5D 69 58 D9 98 7A X-Pgp-Keyid: 34F9F9D5 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk It may have already been discussed before, but here is the list of distirbutions on McKusick's "The CSRG Archives" 4-CD set: 1BSD, 2BSD, 3BSD, 2.9pucc, 2.10, 2.79, 2.8, 2.9, 4.0, 4.1, 4.1a, 4.1c.1, 4.1c.2, 4.1.snap, 4.2, 4.3, VM.snapshot.1, VM.snapshot.2, 4.3Tahoe, 4.3Reno, Net/1, Net/2, 4.4, 4.4-Lite1, 4.4-Lite2, and /usr/src SCCS files. -- -- David (obrien(a)NUXI.com) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id FAA87954 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 05:31:49 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

23 years, 10 months

4.2BSD dist in the TUHS/PUPS archive: resolution

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Quasijarus Consortium members and TUHS/PUPS archive users, Since early fall 1998 the archive has had an incomplete distribution of 4.2BSD reconstructed from some bogus tape images from Per Andersson. This morning Tim Shoppa read an authentic 4.2BSD tape dist. I compared it with the incomplete dist in the archive and found that it is the same dist, Tim Shoppa's version is complete and correct, and Per Andersson's version was incomplete. The files that were in the archive were correct. I added the missing files this morning, making the 4.2BSD dist in the archive complete. It is in Distributions/4bsd/4.2BSD, it is a superset of what was there before (because what was there before was just missing some files), and it identically matches Tim Shoppa's copy in his home directory. I left Per Andersson's original (bogus) files in the Per_Andersson subdirectory. Warren, it's up to you if you want to keep or delete them. -- Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force International Engineering and Science Task Force 615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4 DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office) E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA84202 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 00:48:04 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

23 years, 10 months

Re: Yet Another "where does it fit" question

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> wrote: > * A 4.3BSD-Reno VAX tape dated "1/2/91". I suppose I have to get down > on my hands and knees and see how this differs from the version dated > "30 Jul 90" currently in Distributions/4bsd/4.3BSD-Reno. This has > the original UCB stickers on it. Yes. > * A set of tar files on a tape claiming to be the "4.4BSD snapshot > 4/1/92". Is PUPS/TUHS collecting anything anything this late? Is > something like this already in Kirk's archive? Kirk, you'll have to fill me in on this one. Is this the "4.4BSD-Alpha" I've seen mentioned in some places? In any case this is not on Kirk's CD-ROMs and I'll include it in my 4BSD collection. -- Michael Sokolov Harhan Engineering Laboratory Public Service Agent International Free Computing Task Force International Engineering and Science Task Force 615 N GOOD LATIMER EXPY STE #4 DALLAS TX 75204-5852 USA Phone: +1-214-824-7693 (Harhan Eng Lab office) E-mail: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG (ARPA TCP/SMTP) (UUCP coming soon) Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA82759 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 00:09:54 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au) >From Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Sat Jun 17 00:07:07 2000 Received: from timaxp.trailing-edge.com (timaxp.trailing-edge.com [63.73.218.130]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA82755 for <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU>; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 00:09:50 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from SHOPPA(a)timaxp.trailing-edge.com) Received: by timaxp.trailing-edge.com for PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU; Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:07:07 -0400 Date: Fri, 16 Jun 2000 10:07:07 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU Message-Id: <000616100707.2620009e(a)trailing-edge.com> Subject: 4.4BSD-Alpha Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk >> * A set of tar files on a tape claiming to be the "4.4BSD snapshot >> 4/1/92". Is PUPS/TUHS collecting anything anything this late? Is >> something like this already in Kirk's archive? >Kirk, you'll have to fill me in on this one. Is this the "4.4BSD-Alpha" I've >seen mentioned in some places? In any case this is not on Kirk's CD-ROMs and >I'll include it in my 4BSD collection. I found a separate tape, labeled "August 23, 1992", with a matching cover letter (signed by Kirk McKusick) saying "This is a distribution tape for the 4.4BSD-Alpha release ... The binaries and kernel on the tape support the HP 9000/300 68000-based workstations...". Is this the holy grail? I would guess the "4.4BSD snapshot 4/1/92" is pre-release. -- Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/ 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917 Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927 Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA84172 for pups-liszt; Sat, 17 Jun 2000 00:40:20 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au)

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TUHS June 2000