- TUHS - www.tuhs.org

Re: [pups] Supnik Emulator on Redhat Linux

by Toby Thain

On 23-Mar-06, at 2:57 PM, Robin wrote: > Ah, > > That’s a good suggestion. I’ll dig my way round the redhat config > stuff and see if I can find one to switch off. > > Look at "iptables". --Toby > > > Robin > > > > From: Toby Thain [mailto:toby@smartgames.ca] > Sent: 23 March 2006 06:37 > To: robinb(a)ruffnready.co.uk > Subject: Re: [pups] Supnik Emulator on Redhat Linux > > > > > > On 20-Mar-06, at 1:54 PM, Robin wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > I have successfully got the supnik emulator up and running on > redhat but have hit a problem, which is probably configuration and > serves to show how little I know about more recent unices. > > > > To allow computer to emulator comms I have installed a second card > and enabled it under linux. It is enabled with a different address > to the first one 192.168.1.10 and 192.168.1.11. The emulator can > see both of the devices and I have attached device 1 (eth1) as xq0. > > > > I run up BSD2.11 on the emulator and it attaches to the ether > device at start up. > > > > I can ftp from the emulator to the host and back again if I start > ftp on the emulator. > > > > I can’t telnet to the host. > > > > I can’t telnet from the host to the emulator. > > > > I can’t ftp from the host to the emulator. > > > > I also can’t telnet in from a telnet session to the listening > socket set up for a DZ11 (I could before I started trying to get > the networking up). > > > > Ideas anyone? > > > > > > Sounds like firewall to me. > > > > --Toby > > > > > > > Robin > > _______________________________________________ > > PUPS mailing list > > PUPS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/pups > > > >

19 years, 3 months

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[pups] Supnik Emulator on Redhat Linux

by Robin

Hi, I have successfully got the supnik emulator up and running on redhat but have hit a problem, which is probably configuration and serves to show how little I know about more recent unices. To allow computer to emulator comms I have installed a second card and enabled it under linux. It is enabled with a different address to the first one 192.168.1.10 and 192.168.1.11. The emulator can see both of the devices and I have attached device 1 (eth1) as xq0. I run up BSD2.11 on the emulator and it attaches to the ether device at start up. I can ftp from the emulator to the host and back again if I start ftp on the emulator. I can't telnet to the host. I can't telnet from the host to the emulator. I can't ftp from the host to the emulator. I also can't telnet in from a telnet session to the listening socket set up for a DZ11 (I could before I started trying to get the networking up). Ideas anyone? Robin

19 years, 3 months

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papers on the -mm macros?

by A. Wik

Hi, I've found the documentation for most of the major troff preprocessors and macros packages, but I can't seem to find anything but occasional references to a paper on the "Programmer's Memorandum Macros" (troff -mm) by Smith and Mashey. I'm hoping some of you may have better insight into the matter... -aw

19 years, 3 months

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Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 29, Issue 3

by lm＠bitmover.com

> I've found the documentation for most of the major > troff preprocessors and macros packages, but I can't > seem to find anything but occasional references to a > paper on the "Programmer's Memorandum Macros" (troff -mm) > by Smith and Mashey. Try asking on the groff mailing list, they have been very active lately, built a new macro package even. groff(a)gnu.org -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com

19 years, 3 months

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Re: [TUHS] Tape images of 2.9BSD for SIMH?

by Jose R. Valverde

Please, forgive me. I profusely apologize for all the inconveniences. It's been fixed now. I am sorry, I have been busy with lectures and travels and had forgotten the issue until I finally found time tonight to re-check TUHS on this account. To top it off my home computer broke and I only bought a new one yesterday. Be assured I blushed when I saw my mistake and it has been the first thing I've done. I'll try not to leave TUHS for so long again. Promise. j On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:12:02 +0000 Z Sztrprszkolwia <sztrprszkolwia(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi! > > A couple of weeks ago you gave this address in the TUHS list, for tape > images of BSD: > > J. R. Valverde wrote: > > >I have made a fair number of virtual machines myself. May it's time to set them > >free. Look into > > > > ftp://ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/emul/images/ > > > >for some of them. > > > > Unfortunately, when I log in as anonymous the directories are listed as > drwxrwx--- (no permision whatsoever for 'others') and I can't download > your simhs :(( > I'm quite interested in playing with them, could you give others r-x > permisions? Thanks :))

19 years, 3 months

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Re: [TUHS] Tape images of 2.9BSD for SIMH?

by Jose R. Valverde

Please, forgive me. I profusely apologize for all the inconveniences. It's been fixed now. I am sorry, I have been busy with lectures and travels and had forgotten the issue until I finally found time tonight to re-check TUHS on this account. Be assured I blushed when I saw my mistake and it has been the first thing I've done. I'll try not to leave TUHS for so long again. Promise. j On Thu, 09 Mar 2006 18:12:02 +0000 Z Sztrprszkolwia <sztrprszkolwia(a)gmail.com> wrote: > Hi! > > A couple of weeks ago you gave this address in the TUHS list, for tape > images of BSD: > > J. R. Valverde wrote: > > >I have made a fair number of virtual machines myself. May it's time to set them > >free. Look into > > > > ftp://ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/emul/images/ > > > >for some of them. > > > > Unfortunately, when I log in as anonymous the directories are listed as > drwxrwx--- (no permision whatsoever for 'others') and I can't download > your simhs :(( > I'm quite interested in playing with them, could you give others r-x > permisions? Thanks :))

19 years, 3 months

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[pups] Figured some things out.

by Kelli Halliburton

I feel just a little bit stupid for not figuring them out sooner, but smart in being able to figure them out on my own. Some of you may remember a post I wrote some time ago, dealing with E11 (Ersatz-11) and the RL02 v7 image. I mentioned not being able to get out of single-user mode, and being unable to view man pages. Well, as it turns out, I stumbled across the method of getting to multi-user mode. ^D, imagine that. Dropping out of single-user mode starts multi-user mode. That's not something I would have been able to use logic to figure out. And, well, I happened to notice that there was no temp directory, so no wonder man couldn't create its temp file. A quick little 'mkdir tmp' and that problem was fixed. Now, that was something I was able to figure out logically. Of course, now my problem is that the console is presumed to be a TTY and not a CRT terminal. And so, man pages just scroll right up and off the screen. Oh well. I'm sure I'll figure out something. Eventually.

19 years, 3 months

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Re: [pups] Figured some things out.

by John Holden

> > I was not expecting termcap or curses; I was.. *hoping* (still not expecting) > that perhaps v7 was new enough that the 'simple' type of CRT terminals, the > ones that were basically just glass TTYs, were in common use. That it would > be possible to use stty to set the number of rows to n, and that just maybe > there would be a 'more' command that would only printout the next n lines. > You know, simple stuff. Nothing about cursor addressable displays, no special > codes for clearing the screen, or text attributes, just screen paging. At any > rate, I may sit down at some point and write a 'more' utility of my own. Not > that I need it for man pages now that I have the offline version of the > manual, but there are still things like long directory listings that it would > be useful for. Actually, termcap and vi was ported back to V7 very early in the piece, though you needed an ID space processor (aka PDP11/45/50/55/70) to run vi. There were several paging programs about, some using termcap. From memory there was dis, pg and more. The man command didn't do any pagination Cheers John

19 years, 3 months

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[pups] Getting P11 up on redhat

by Robin

Hi Everyone, I'm having a bit of fun getting P11 up on redhat. Has anyone got a copy of AS11 that they could send me as I want to rebuild everything including the boot rom to make sure that I've got it as right as I can. Cheers Robin -- Robin Birch

19 years, 4 months

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Re: [pups] "/unix is not the running version." ??

by Robert Armstrong

> Unfortunately the autoconfig stuff has /unix hard coded into > it and will only look for this file. Thanks, guys, for the answer. I've got to admit that I'm disappointed. If you have to decide, before the old system goes down, via a series of moves or copies or hard links or whatever, which kernel you're going to use the next time the system comes up, then it doesn't seem all that useful. I guess if I build a kernel that just doesn't work at all, I can always boot the old kernel far enough to get to single user mode where I can remove the dud /unix, put the old one back, and then reboot. That's something. Anyway, if that's the way it is, then that's the way it is :-) Thanks again. Bob

19 years, 4 months

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ATT 3b2

by Stuart, Jon

Hello, I'm interested in acquring an AT&T 3b2 computer. One of these systems used to run a famous public UNIX system "killer". They also run #5ess telephone switches, however the OS is different in that case (DMERT/UNIX-RTR instead of whatever the consumer-level 3b2 runs). If anyone has information on where to acquire these (I saw the recent discussion on 3b1s and I know they are more prolific than 3b2s-- infact a friend of mine used to have a UNIX PC which we set up a BBS on). Thanks. Jonathan Stuart, CISSP /"\ ASCII Ribbon Software Engineer \ / Campaign Pegasus Solutions, Inc. X against HTML / \ email & vCards

19 years, 4 months

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Tape images of 2.9BSD for SIMH?

by Madcrow Maxwell

I was wondering how I can turn the provided TAR files of 2.9BSD into a proper tape image for use with an emulator? Is a premade emu-friendly install tape available? I don't have either a real '11 or a physical tape drive on my computer?

19 years, 4 months

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Old C code

by Sergey Lapin

Hi, all! I just dug into sed.h from 32V version of sed: gcc can't parse the following code: union reptr { struct reptr1 { char *ad1; char *ad2; char *re1; char *rhs; FILE *fcode; char command; char gfl; char pfl; char inar; char negfl; }; struct reptr2 { char *ad1; char *ad2; union reptr *lb1; char *rhs; FILE *fcode; char command; char gfl; char pfl; char inar; char negfl; }; } ptrspace[PTRSIZE], *rep; Does anyone know current form of that, or how to force this to compile and work? Thanks a lot! S.

19 years, 4 months

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(no subject)

by dmr＠plan9.bell-labs.com

> If I remember correctly, all of the "real" members of the 3B family > (i.e. 3B2, 3B5, 3B15 and 3B20) shared a common "virtual" > instruction set called (I think) IS25 - it was the job of the assembler > to translate IS25 into the actual machine code for the specific > processor used in each machine. > IS25 was a little curious because it only defined those instructions > that were likely to be of use to the C compiler - thus there was a > "push" instruction so that the compiler could push function arguments > onto the stack, but no "pop" instruction because the C compiler > never generated it. IS25: just so. I managed to retrieve the scanned PDF for the manual for this virtual instruction set. It's an internal memo, but I'll send it if anyone asks. It's 2.8MB of page images and is 108 pages long. The memories of Lindsly and Lowenstein are also apposite. AT&T donated quite a few machines (3B20 and 3B2) to universities, and though they appreciated the thought, there were various drawbacks--the gift didn't include maintenance, for example. Dennis

19 years, 4 months

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Re: [TUHS] AT+T UNIX PC Information needed

by Brian S Walden

Duncan Anderson asks: > Thanks for that bit of information. I had been under the impression that it > was V3. Is the lack of streams the main difference between the 2 and 3? If > there is no streams interface, can the machine be part of a TCP/IP network? SVR3 also added shared libraries and RFS. As for TCP/IP the popular implementation was from Wollongong. But wouldn't you need ethernet hardware support too? It's been a long time but I only remember StarLAN hardware for it.

19 years, 4 months

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re: ATT 3b2

by dmr＠plan9.bell-labs.com

> I'm interested in acquring an AT&T 3b2 computer. One of these systems > used to run a famous public UNIX system "killer". They also run #5ess > telephone switches, however the OS is different in that case > (DMERT/UNIX-RTR instead of whatever the consumer-level 3b2 runs). > If anyone has information on where to acquire these (I saw the recent > discussion on 3b1s and I know they are more prolific than 3b2s-- infact > a friend of mine used to have a UNIX PC which we set up a BBS on). The 3B2 was not the same machine as the one in 5ESS, which was/is the 3B20D, a fairly large duplexed machine (two processors that mutually checked each other). The 3B2 was a desktop. The 3B20D wasn't sold commercially, as far as I know. There was a 3B20S (multi-cabinet) that at least nominally was commercially available. Their ISAs were not quite the same, but some assembler language tricks made the assembler-level languages look quite similar. Dennis

19 years, 4 months

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Re: [TUHS] AT+T UNIX PC Information needed

by tuhs＠ducky.net

>I think it's System V Release 3.0 or thereabout Basically the same machine was also sold as the 3b1; the difference between the 7300 and the 3b1 is that the 3b1 has room for a taller hard disk drive. I think the OS would best be characterized as SVR2 with the addition of the 4.1bsd VM system ("real" SVR2 had no demand paged VM) and the further addition of its own unique approach to shared libraries. It's definitely not SVR3; no "STREAMS".

19 years, 4 months

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AT+T UNIX PC Information needed

by Duncan Anderson

Greetings I wonder if anyone on this list has any idea where I can find some information regarding the AT+T PC7300? I have one, but it seems that the power supply has problems. In any case, it is designed for a lower voltage than what we have here, namely 220V 50Hz. I should like to know if it is possible to get schematic diagrams for the power supply so that I can get an electronics engineer friend to have a go at redesigning it. Am I barking up the wrong tree? regards Duncan ___________________________________________________________ Win a BlackBerry device from O2 with Yahoo!. Enter now. http://www.yahoo.co.uk/blackberry

19 years, 4 months

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Uploaded 44bsd rootdump

by A. Wik

Hello, On my FreeBSD/i386 host, I was unable to extract the "rootdump" file of the 4.4BSD-Alpha distribution available on Minnie. Fortunately, I succeeded on my NetBSD/vax machine, even though its version of NetBSD is far older than FreeBSD 5.3 which is what I have on the i386. The VAX "restore" program mentioned something about quad- swapping, so perhaps FreeBSD's "restore" does not translate the byte order. I think the 4.4BSD distribution is from a big-endian machine ("hp300"). It's funny, then, that I was sure that *at least* byte-order could *not* be the problem since both the i386 and VAX are little-endian and I was sure the 4.4BSD distribution was a VAX one! After extracting the rootdump, I created a .tar file instead and uploaded it to minnie.tuhs.org:/incoming, file name bsd44a-shoppa-rootdump.tar. You may wish to compress it and move it to the same directory as the other 4.4BSD-Alpha files so others won't have to go through the trouble I experienced. Regards, A. Wik

19 years, 4 months

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Some PDP-11 and -10 links

by Warren Toomey

I just received this from a friend. The format was heavily >>>>>>'d, so I've cleaned it up a bit. The information about who said what is vague. Warren From: Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> To: UNIX Heritage Society <tuhs(a)tuhs.org> Subject: PDP-11 and PDP-10s in Holland From a discussion on a FreeBSD mailing list: On Thu, Feb 02, 2006 at 01:05:16PM -0800, Matthew Jacob wrote.. >>>>>>> I forgot- the world premier PDP-11 site is in .nl. >>>>> http://www.pdp-11.nl/ Wilko Bulte then wrote: >>>> I am sure you will also appreciate Geert's museum at: >>>> http://www.xs4all.nl/~geerol/ >>>> Geert is a friend of mine with a *big* farm house :) Then Matthew Jacob wrote: >> see also: >> http://aceware.iinet.net.au/acms/default.htm >> They also have a full KL10 (PDP10 (!)) that seems to not be in the list.. >> see: http://aceware.iinet.net.au/acms/EventDetail.asp?lngEventId=48

19 years, 5 months

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PDP-11 and PDP-10s in Holland

by Greg 'groggy' Lehey

From a discussion on a FreeBSD mailing list: On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 14:09:34 -0800, Julian Elischer wrote: > Matthew Jacob wrote: >> Yeah! >> >> On Thu, 2 Feb 2006, Wilko Bulte wrote: >>> On Thu, Feb 02, 2006 at 01:05:16PM -0800, Matthew Jacob wrote.. >>>>>> >>>>>> I forgot- the world premier PDP-11 site is in .nl. >>>>> >>>>> Is it? Which one do you mean? >>>> >>>> http://www.pdp-11.nl/ >>> >>> Ah. >>> >>> I am sure you will also appreciate Geert's museum at: >>> >>> http://www.xs4all.nl/~geerol/ >>> >>> Geert is a friend of mine with a *big* farm house :) > > see also: > http://aceware.iinet.net.au/acms/default.htm > > They also have a full KL10 (PDP10 (!)) that seems to not be in the list.. > see: http://aceware.iinet.net.au/acms/EventDetail.asp?lngEventId=48 -- Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers.

19 years, 5 months

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Re: [TUHS] Redoing "V6on286" or porting V7...?

by Lyrical Nanoha

On Fri, 18 Nov 2005, Markus E Leypold wrote: > I wonder, wether you realize that getting pcc "ready" would mean > writing a x86 backend for it. Or does it already have one? >From what I heard it does, unless I misremembered... -uso.

19 years, 7 months

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Re: [TUHS] Redoing "V6on286" or porting V7...?

by Peter Jeremy

On 2005-Nov-14 10:45:13 -0500, Brantley Coile <brantley(a)coraid.com> wrote: >> This is fairly wasteful of RAM. Keep in mind that V6 cannot page - >> a process is either entirely in memory or entirely on disk. If you >> limit yourself to 640K RAM, you are probably restricting yourself >> to about 6 resident processes. And swapping means moving 64K of >> data to/from disk. > >true, but your numbers are a bit off. 640k / 64k = 10 not 6. I realise that. > the kernel will take only 2, so you should have 8. I was assuming split I+D, with the data segment fixed at 64K. This means that you have (64K + code) per process. If you have code plus data in 64K then you can fit more, but I think that was getting to be a squeeze even on V6. (And would definitely write off something like 2BSD). >the mit x86 stuff would be where i'd start. i haven't looked to see >if you need to tweak the assignment operators to avoid having >to s/=+/+=/, but it might already be done. Given an open-source compiler, it would be fairly easy to retrofit the =+ operators into the lexer. (Probably easier than cleaning up the code). The alternative is to start with something later (eg 2BSD) but code quality then becomes far more of an issue (because 2BSD tends to push the I-space limits in lots of areas). >it's all 16 bit stuff: port of PCC, assembler and loader. The x86 instruction set and registers are nothing like as regular and orthogonal as the PDP-11. In particular, there are _no_ general purpose registers - every register has has a particular purpose and either you need to do data-flow analysis to work out what register to load something into, or you (basically) give up and load from memory as needed. You could port PCC but this would be much more difficult than (say) a M68K port. You'd probably need a fairly decent peep-hole optimiser to get good results. Wesley Parish mentioned bcc and OpenWatcom. I looked into the former and it's probably the best starting point (though, with due respect to BDE, the code it generates could be better). Assuming that Unix fits into the C subset implemented by bcc, you'd be better off spending the effort on improving bcc than porting PCC. At the time I looked, OpenWatcom was either still vapourware or not self-hosting. >an enjoyable discussion. wish i had time to work on it. Agreed. -- Peter Jeremy This email may contain privileged/confidential information. You may not copy or disclose this email to anyone without the written permission of the sender. If you have received this email in error please kindly delete this message and notify the sender. Opinions expressed in this email are those of the sender and not necessarily the opinions of the employer. This email and any attached files should be scanned to detect viruses. No liability will be accepted by the employer for loss or damage (whether caused by negligence or not) as a result of email transmission.

19 years, 7 months

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Redoing "V6on286" or porting V7...?

by Lyrical Nanoha

I've thought, since there doesn't seem to be a working "V6on286", maybe I should try porting it myself though I'm not very familiar with the Ancient Unix sources or with the ancient C used. The oldest compiler I've got that will compile is Turbo C++ 1.01 from 1990 and it's an ANSI C compiler. (I do think it'll compile late K&R, but there's weirdnesses in the C used by V6.) Having an emulator like QEMU handy is a nice plus. I could prolly build everything onto a 1.44 MB disk image and boot it in emulation. I'm thinking I'd want to create tools for transferring files into and out of disk images, and a bootloader to put on the first sector of the disk (though, 512 bytes is awful small...) Any ideas? -uso.

19 years, 7 months

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Re: [TUHS] Redoing "V6on286" or porting V7...?

by Norman Wilson

Brantley Coile: i don't know that it's a squese. a version of v6 ran on an lsi-11 with very little ram. ======= If you're thinking of Mini-UNIX, it's a bit of a stretch to call it `V6 running on an LSI-11.' I think the original LSI-11 had no memory management; in any case, Mini-UNIX didn't use it, but was a throwback to the early days of the PDP-7 and the 11/20 (neither of which had memory management). Only one process could be in memory at a time; to let another process run meant swapping the first completely out of memory. I believe there's a paper in the 1978 all-UNIX issue of the Bell Systems Technical Journal about Mini-UNIX or its immediate predecessor. As I recall, there were additional compromises; e.g. the shell quietly translated a | b to a >tempfile; b <tempfile; rm tempfile because that was much faster than the thrashing that often resulted from trying to let a and b run concurrently. Mini-UNIX might be a simpler starting point to get a system running on a 286. Just don't think of it as full V6; it's not. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

19 years, 7 months

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What UNIX on a PDP-11/34 ?

by asbesto

Hi all, here at freaknet medialab we made some images of our RL02 disk packs with RT-11 and GAMMA-11 software (specific for a Nuclear Camera, this pdp-11 was used for medical exams) :) those images are very funny, we can use them under simh emulator! :) So, now that we have the backups, we're wondering about installing UNIX in this pdp11/34. what can we install? any hint ? please help! :) p.s. something about our restoration and the disk image of our rt-11 system is online at http://zaverio.net/pdp11, under the "stuff" directory. :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 7 months

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UNIX and relatives and SSH

by Jose R Valverde

Sorry for my previous aborted message. I'm using webmail which is an alien sort of thing to me. What I wanted to say is that you may as well let them 'telnet' to the PDP11-2.11BSD through SSH. I mean, you may have the PDP behind a firewall with all ports blocked, and another machine (linux, *bsd, whatever) with SSH open. Then all that would be needed is that your friend uses an SSH tunnel to the telnet port of the PDP. For instance, let's say you open an account for your friend on the intermediate machine: s/he may use this machine to forward one of his local ports (say 2300) to port 23 on the PDP11 system (say pdp11-2bsd.example.net) as ssh -L 2300:pdp11-2bsd.example.net:23 hop.example.net This would forward his local port 2300 to port 23 of pdp11-2bsd.example.net, using the host hop.example.net as an intermediate SSH step. Then all that your friend needs to do is issue a telnet localhost 2300 and that would connect him to the telnet port of the PDP11 using SSH. If s/he uses windows, most SSH clients have a port forwarding tool that makes introducing this information very easy. So, to sumamrize: - you open an account on an intermediate host that has SSH - your friend creates a tunnel from his own computer to the PDP using the intermediate host with his user/pswd. - your friend telnets his/her own local computer at the chosen port All communications will be encrypted between his/her computer and the intermediate host, and go in the clear between the intermediate host and the PDP. If the intermediate host is behind a firewall, then that would be no problem. j ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, más seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es

19 years, 7 months

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Re: [TUHS] UNIX and relatives and SSH

by Jose R Valverde

Hi Gregg, ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, más seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es

19 years, 7 months

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Networking and the UNIX versions or releases for the PDP-11

by Gregg C Levine

Hello from Gregg C Levine Still working on my ideas regarding E11 and the usual OSes for the PDP-11. Would anyone of you know when networking via Ethernet was added to the capabilities of regular UNIX? It seems to be available in the releases of BSD that I've explored. For those that missed it, I can reiterate my plans concerning the Linux variety of E-11, and those operating systems, but only upon request. --- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net --- "Remember the Force will be with you. Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi

19 years, 7 months

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Re: [TUHS] TUHS Digest, Vol 27, Issue 1

by benyuan liu

hi all: currently i am reading the mit 6.828 course, and i am wondering how to creat a rk05 image from the ground up?just like the one mentioned in the course v6root v6src v6doc? thanks in advance~ ------------------------------ lucky buggy

19 years, 7 months

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UNIX and relatives and SSH

by Gregg C Levine

Hello from Gregg C Levine One of my less then familiar with UNIX and its relatives, friend, wants to explore a system running UNIX. Probably BSD for the PDP-11 I should think. Since I view telnet, from the Internet to me anyway, as a security risk can someone check this assertion? The last version of BSD for the PDP-11 that I am aware of, and have seen on the site, 2.11 does not have the capability to run SSH, because it does not have the ability to compile it from source. SSH wasn't added to the operating systems that we use until much later. I freely admit that part of my assertion may not be correct however. (Regarding the ability to build SSH natively.) For example, I am aware that the BSD base, such as FreeBSD, and NetBSD, and OpenBSD, all have SSH included. It certainly is in Linux. What I am planning on doing is configuring the Linux version of E11 to run the chosen BSD pointing its Ethernet connection, to the one my Linux box in question uses. And have a second one also running the same release work as a gateway for the first. You'd run SSH to the gateway, login as a "guest" and via an appropriate password, and then telnet to the product. Of course to risk damage to the baseboard Ethernet connection, I'd probably put a cheap card in the computer, and run that over to my router. Pointing it of course to the E11instance. Warren, just for the sake of double checking my facts, are the instructions regarding the BSD family for the PDP-11 up to date? --- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net --- "Remember the Force will be with you. Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi

19 years, 7 months

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[pups] "/unix is not the running version." ??

by Robert Armstrong

Guys, Thanks for the help with my dzq11 problem - I'm glad to see that there are still people around running PDP-11 Unix. Now that I've actually started using my 11/73, I've run into several things that I just don't know how to fix. Like this one - I built a non-networking kernel (my normal /unix kernel has DEQNA and TCP/IP support) using the NONET example that comes with 2.11BSD. No particular problems there. Since I don't actually want to overwrite my /unix file, I can't use "make install" to install the nonet kernel, and so I just say "cp unix /nonet" and then chmod /nonet to set the protections. This might have been my mistake, but I don't know any other way to do it without trashing my real /unix kernel. To boot the nonet kernel, at the ":" boot prompt I type "nonet". All is well until we get up to init, and then it says autoconfig: /unix is not the running version init: configuration setup error And then I'm stuck in single user mode with no devices configured. Not especially useful. Is my mistake in just "cp"ing the nonet kernel, or is there some limitation on booting files other than /unix? Thanks again, Bob Armstrong

19 years, 8 months

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[pups] Can't get a second DZQ11 to configure?!

by Robert Armstrong

Hi Guys, I've got a 11/73 with 2.11BSD. The hardware configuration is pretty typical - RQDX3, DEQNA, TK50, and one DZQ11. Everything runs fine, but now I need to install a second DZQ. The first DZQ has csr 160100 and vector 300, so according to my calculations the second should be at 160110 and vector 310. I set the switches, install the card, and then edit my system configuration to change NDZ to be 2, rebuild the kernel, reboot, and, .... Disappointment! When it gets up to init, it says: init: configure system dz 0 csr 160100 vector 300 attached ra 0 .... 172150 .... 154 tms 0 .... 174500 ... 260 ... etc ... nothing about the second DZQ. Everything else still works, including the original DZQ11, and it boots up just fine except that there's no sign of the second DZQ11. I figured I made a mistake building the kernel, so I double check my kernel configuration and yes, the file dz.h contains "#define NDZ 2". Just to be safe I delete all the objects from my machine's configuration directory and rebuild the entire kernel from sources (takes a couple of hours on a 11/73!). Still no joy - init only finds one DZ... And I'm sure I'm booting the new kernel because of the timestamp it prints out when you boot it. At this point I figured it's a hardware problem. Just to be sure, I pulled out both DZQs and swapped the switch settings on the two cards. This makes the original DZQ card now the "second" one at 160110/310 and the new card the "first" DZQ at 160100/300. Put it all back together and boot it up again - same results! Init finds the first DZ but not the second! Moreover, all the serial ports on the back that are now connected to dz0 (which is the card that used to be the second dz) still work! Of course, the ports on dz 1 (which is the card that used to work) are now dead. It seems like the two DZQ11 cards must be OK. Oh, and BTW, I even used the 11/73's console ODT to verify that all addresses from 17760100 to 17760117 respond. The only explanation I'm left with is a configuration problem. Is there something I don't know about rebuilding the 2.11bsd kernel? Is 160110/310 the wrong location for the second DZQ11? Thanks much, any suggestions are appreciated. Bob Armstrong

19 years, 8 months

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Bringing up any 4.3BSD on a MicroVAX without tape....

by Jose R Valverde

>It is in the same boat as the one Robert is writing >about. I know I can install NetBSD/vax on it using the >net boot concept. But I'd like to run one of the >appropriate distributions from "our" collection. Any >suggestions? The most obivous ones are - Quasijarus - Ultrix-32M -- ultrix 1.2 is in the archives -- from ifctvax.harhan.org you can get sources for ultrix 2.0.0 ultrix 4.2.0 (see previous posts in the list) - 32V j ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, más seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es

19 years, 8 months

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Re: [TUHS] Bringing up any 4.3BSD on a MicroVAX without tape....

by Aharon Robbins

Wasn't there an "installboot" program that told the bootblock where to find the /boot file? Boy was it a lllloooonnnngggg time ago that I dealt with this stuff. Arnold > Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 13:28:31 -0400 > From: robertdkeys(a)aol.com > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Bringing up any 4.3BSD on a MicroVAX without tape.... > To: msokolov(a)ivan.Harhan.ORG, tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > The /boot is there, so it is somewhere between the bootblocks > and /boot that the connection is lost. The /boot is apparently > not correctly found. But, it is there...... > > Bob Keys > > -----Original Message----- > > > The problem is that it won't install boot blocks that work. > > None of the raboot/rdboot/bootra/bootrd combos get > > any farther than the cryptic "loading boot" message. > > The "loading boot" message comes from the bootblock code and indicates > that the bootblocks are good and working. If it stops there, it means > that you are missing the /boot file in the root filesystem (that's what > it's loading). > > MS

19 years, 8 months

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Re: [TUHS] Bringing up any 4.3BSD on a MicroVAX without tape....

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Aharon Robbins <arnold(a)skeeve.com> wrote: > Wasn't there an "installboot" program that told the bootblock where > to find the /boot file? The installboot program in the original 4.3BSD, whose function has been incorporated into disklabel(8) in 4.3-Tahoe/Quasijarus, writes the boot blocks to the disk, but it does not patch them with the location of /boot, the bootblock code is smart enough to understand the filesystem. As for Robert's problem, I don't know where he got screwed - but man, use your head, what do you think your god-given brain is for? You can single-step through the code with the MicroVAX ROM monitor's N command, you can put some printf's in the code to see where it dies, etc, the possibilities are limitless. Just debug it the same way you would debug any other problem. What do you think I do when I get a similar mysterious snafu? I debug it like a real programmer, don't go crying to a mailing list. MS

19 years, 8 months

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Re: [TUHS] Bringing up any 4.3BSD on a MicroVAX without tape....

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

robertdkeys(a)aol.com wrote: > The problem is that it won't install boot blocks that work. > None of the raboot/rdboot/bootra/bootrd combos get > any farther than the cryptic "loading boot" message. The "loading boot" message comes from the bootblock code and indicates that the bootblocks are good and working. If it stops there, it means that you are missing the /boot file in the root filesystem (that's what it's loading). MS

19 years, 8 months

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Re: [TUHS] Ancient unixes

by Brantley Coile

oops. sorry. it is http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/spe.html

19 years, 8 months

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Re: [TUHS] Ancient unixes

by Brantley Coile

this name `internet' name space was considered and rejected. it's harder than one would think to get details right for all networks, the addess is only a small part of the information needed for the connection, and keeping a name space for all the internet updated would be very hard. instead they use a network!machine!port syntax with the dial command. you can follow the full development of those ideas in the following papers. http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/who/dmr/spe.html http://cm.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/net/net.html remember. seventh edition was relase in 1977. Jimmy Carter was president, ``Anne Hall'' won best picture, and the Chevy Nova was a big hit.

19 years, 8 months

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Status of "32i"

by Paul Duffy

Hi, Been reading through the list, just wondering did anything further come of the whole 32V/i project? Last mail about it i see was back in April 2004. -Paul "There is no greater sorrow then to remember times of happiness when miserable" -- Dante "The Inferno"

19 years, 8 months

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Re: [TUHS] Legality of porting ancient UNIX

by Jose R Valverde

Well, if I remember well, there was this little nifty legal argument between ATT USL and UCB BSDI in the early '90s that was settled out of court. One of the factors that helped settle (again if I remember well) was that ATT had failed to adequately state its Copyright on UNIX version 32V (may be more, my memory's weak) that had been distributed in source code, and hence those sources by the then current Copyright law, had fallen in the Public Domain. Then, if my recollection is right (better look at the documents on the case available on dmr's web page), you could do as you well damn please with those sources. http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/who/dmr/bsdi/bsdisuit.html >From one of the rulings: "Consequently, I find that Plaintiff has failed to demonstrate a likelihood that it can successfully defend its copyright in 32V. Plaintiff's claims of copyright violations are not a basis for injunctive relief." For others, the license otorgued by Caldera when they released the source (a BSD look-alike) would allow you to as well to a large extent. No need to go to the Open Group. Besides, they own the trademark (i.e. you could not call the product UNIX without their permission) but not the code (besides their own microkernel developments). j ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, más seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es

19 years, 8 months

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Legality of porting ancient Unix.

by John Chung

There has been a lot of talk about ancient unix lately. I do know there are quite a few ports for the ancient unix but the main question is it legal? It is possible to port and distribute the port without the warth of the company that owns the IP? Regards, John Chung __________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/

19 years, 8 months

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Re: [TUHS] Legality of porting ancient Unix.

by Jose R Valverde

>Does anyone know where and how one obtains the "ancient unix" sources, >particularly 32V? Pardon? Obviously, at TUHS! www.tuhs.org particularly ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/UnixArchive/VAX/Distributions/32V j ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, más seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es

19 years, 8 months

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Re: [TUHS] Ancient unixes

by Jose R Valverde

Waddayamean? I mean: what does it mean to you 'the spirit of ancient Unix'? If by that you mean the fact that they were simple, slim and efficient, doing one simple thing and doing it right, you may then consider the effort by ast in the 80's with MINIX. OK, it used it's own microkernel, but the basic idea is the same... and has been followed on by Mach, BSD-lites, Flex, MacOS X, Tru64, Linux on L4, etc... As a matter of fact I always felt UNIX after v7 got it wrong: e.g. network data is no longer another stream (I'd have loved it to be a file system with directories representing network addresses and ports being files or pipes). Thus, later unices increased complexity by abandoning the simlicity of the original design. If that is the case, Plan 9 is a good update. And so is Inferno. Actually, I always felt that many additions to UNIX might have been better implemented outside the kernel if only the kernel had been expanded to allow user-mode expansions. But that's already here with kernel modules in Linux, BSDs, Solaris, etc... which are becoming more and more microkernelized each day. As microkernels become bigger :-) OTOH, if you mean adding 'modern' services, perhaps QNX is doing it with its support for Real-time. Or adding dynamic libraries, networking, modern virtual memory (beyond swapping), etc... which at the plainest level is what more or less likeably all modern UNIX have done. Extending into the future? Distributed computing, clusters, etc? Like some commercial UNIX, Amoeba, Inferno and the like? If you only mean resurrecting these ancient UNIX on modern hardware, there have been initiatives to rewrite v7 alike systems for other architectures (say OMU, UZI, MINIX, Coherent, Xinu, etc.). But for that you already have emulators that provide you the original flavor at even higher speeds in a virtualized environment. So? waddayamean? I think the answer to your question is YES! Lots of people have tried to improve ancient UNIX more or less successfully, and many people is still trying, using microkernels, no-kernels, adding RT, VM, dynamic libraries, kernel modules, etc... Each with their own approach. This said, if I were to pick an initiative that gets closest to the wishes of the original designers, that should undoubtedly be Plan 9 and its successor, Inferno, as they are what the 'Original Designers' themselves have done when they tried to repeat it doing it 'right' (or at least better) no matter what my personal opinions regarding the issue may be. Regarding my opinion, yes, I would go for the good old leather-bound days of IBM mainframes with MVS. (zOS?) which oddly enough are finally reaching the rest of us with Xen and emulators like QEMU. If I were to wish, I'd like a no-kernel approach (everything independent, cooperating, hot-substitutable, fully migratable processes) over a virtualizing system that allows me to run several OSs and update/change any OS component on the fly without service interruption, and to migrate everything between machines on demand ('cos of overload or hw failures or whatever, or just 'cos I wish to). Now, _that_ would IMHO be close to ultimate OS design: something that can always be updated on the fly and may survive any change, something that can adapt and evolve without interruption or even the user noticing. But that is a complex enough concept to expect most system programmers to grasp, let alone sysadmins, programmers or users not to pervert. Not to talk of salesmen and marketroids! j -- Jose R. Valverde EMBnet/CNB ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, más seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es

19 years, 8 months

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Re: [TUHS] ancient unixes

by Norman Wilson

Bill Cunningham: Has anyone had the idea to take the ancient unix, at least in spirit into the modern age? Warren Toomey: Plan 9? ======= Plan 9 is to UNIX as SVr4.2.2.2.2.2.2 is to Sixth Edition. If that's the spirit of the modern age, give me the good old leather-bound days, without all that modern rhythm- type dancing and hooting and waving. Norman Wilson Toronto ON PS: This message is not intended to supply the minimum daily requirement of serious thought. Consult your doctor or pharmacist, but not the one that just sent you electronic junk mail or promises to make explicit drugs fast.

19 years, 9 months

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ancient unixes

by Bill Cunningham

Has anyone had the idea to take the ancient unix, at least in spirit into the modern age? Bill

19 years, 9 months

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B and BCPL

by Jose R Valverde

See in http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/mr/index.html where you can find an existing, working (!) and even maintained (!!) and evolving (!!!) BCPL system. And on http://www.catb.org/retro/ you'll find a link to a B-to-C translator: http://www.catb.org/retro/btoc.tar.gz BTW, and just in case my previous mail got lost: the correct URL for UZIX (UNIX for the MSX) is http://uzix.sf.net/ (sorry 'bout the mistake) j ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, más seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es

19 years, 9 months

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UZIX

by Jose R Valverde

Sorry, it was my mistake. I was typing on a slow remote connection and didn't notice until you brought it up. The correct link is http://uzix.sf.net That's the home page for UZIX, a descendant of UZI aiming for the MSX. Sorry again, j ______________________________________________ Renovamos el Correo Yahoo! Nuevos servicios, más seguridad http://correo.yahoo.es

19 years, 9 months

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C compiler

by Bill Cunningham

In some of the eary versions of unix if I'm correct you had to generate the C compiler. Now how was that done? Was the compiler written in assembly and the assembler generated crt0 crt1 and so on? Bill

19 years, 9 months

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UZI

by Jose R. Valverde

I thought someone might be interested. Regarding UNIX history, it is certainly interesting, although the code is not directly descended from ATT UNIX, but rather an independent lineage: http://www.dougbraun.com/uzi.html an implementation of UNIX for Zilog machines. I have been aware of UNIX initiatives for Zilog since the 80's (some friends of mine worked on a port for the Z8000), and like to check from time to time is somthing pops up. This one is an independent implementation of Unix 7th Ed written from scratch. Link to derivative work to port UZI to the veberable MSX: http://uzux.sf.net/ And another interesting one, the One Man Unix (OMU) http://tallyho.bc.nu/~steve/omu.html another one written from scratch, this one for the 6809, and later ported to the 68000, even with an RT version! I think it is worth preserving these works as well: they are a huge tribute to the simplicity of UNIX design and its popularity. Perhaps they might find some space in the 'others' category of the archive together with Coherent, Trix and some others? j -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

19 years, 9 months

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kronos

by Tim Newsham

I accidentally stumbled across this: http://www.excelsior-usa.com/krg/krg.html Perhaps only marginally relevant to tuhs. It's a historic soviet system modelled after Wirth's Lilith system. There's an emulator on the page that works in windows. You can log in as "sys" with no password. There are some familiar unix commands like "cd" and "ls", and others like "find" which seem to differ from the traditional unix commands. The system is written in modula II. There is some account information in /usr/etc and some docs (I think /doc or /usr/doc?) but they are in russian. I'd love to hear more about the system if anyone here knows more about it. Tim Newsham http://www.lava.net/~newsham/

19 years, 9 months

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Enhanced troff available

by Gunnar Ritter

Hi, perhaps some people on this list are interested to hear that I have updated troff (from OpenSolaris code) to support: - direct access to PostScript Type 1 and Type 42 (converted TrueType) fonts - small capitals, old-style numerals, and ligatures from PostScript "expert" fonts - pairwise kerning of characters and letter space tracking, including a request to create kerning pairs for characters from different fonts - hanging characters - arbitrary letter sizes, including fractional points - text input according to the locale, including UTF-8 input on most platforms - hyphenation of international languages - international paper sizes such as A4 - DSC-conforming PostScript output - PDF bookmarks - higher device resolutions. Source code is available at <http://heirloom.sourceforge.net/doctools.html>. Gunnar

19 years, 9 months

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DG/UX 4 tape images ... are incoming!

by asbesto

We're succesfully dumping the DG/UX tapes we have here. :) we had a lot of problem due to "Sticky shed syndrome": the tape stick to the head, causing the tape to lock while reading data ... cooking tapes will be a solution, but we followed another idea: we used a special Teflon Lubricant Spray (here in italy is "CRC TEFLON PENLUB SPRAY" this is PERFECT for tapes - we had to rewind the tape spraying the lubricant on the tape. this cause no problems at all, and we red sticky tapes without problems! the tape images are here: http://zaverio.net/eclipse/stuff/TAPE-IMAGES/ i don't know if there is (C) on those tapes - and really, i don't care about it. I think preserving them is a MISSION for us, and, so, here are the images. happy hacking! :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 9 months

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news about the Data General Eclipse

by asbesto

well, we discovered that we have MV/UX installed together with AOS/VS, so we have a weird UNIX running ... under AOS/VS :))) so, our goal is, for now, to preserve the actual system, and to make a copy of the tapes (now we can use "dd" to read/copy them) we're experimenting, stay tuned we wrote some documentation in http://zaverio.net/eclipse/stuff, and we will put online some help ASAP p.s. any help/hint appreciated :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 10 months

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Jesus uses Eclipse MV/7800XP

by asbesto

Fun at Poetry Hacklab : http://zaverio.net/eclipse/eflags/tn/dscn6703.jpg.html other at http://zaverio.net/eclipse/eflags/ and some .MOV under "stuff" :) enjoy! :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 10 months

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we break into AOS/VS :)

by asbesto

http://zaverio.net/eclipse/eflags/ we hacked in! :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 10 months

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the Data General ECLIPSE MV/7800XP ... booted from tape! :)

by asbesto

well, another great day! we booted via tape! :))) the problem was that the eclipse need to load the "MICROCODE" before read anything else; and we had 2 problems: 1) the tape head was so dirty that we can feel the dirt on the head touching with a finger! after cleaning it, the tape reader now perfectly! 2) the microcode original tape is ... in horrible conditions! it release magnetic particles touching it, and the tape reader can't read it :((( BUT we found that a microcode copy can be loaded from the hard disk (a 550 mb disk, very big and huge ! :) so, we can now load the microcode from hard disk and, after that, boot the DG/UX installation tape :D AND WE'RE SO HAPPY, SOOO HAPPY, WE LOVE ALL ! :) the main problem is how to do a backup of the whole disk, to preserve the original AOS/VS installation, before trying an installation of DG/UX. Any hint? :) p.s. some images here: http://dyne.org/~asbesto/eclipse/eflags many tnx to eflags for the help (he's the guy in the photos). It's a sort of JESUS. He touch hardware imposing hands, then the hardware magically works. :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 10 months

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looking for old school hackers

by lm＠bitmover.com

Hi, Sorry if this is spam but in a flash of "well, duh!" insight I realized this is the right place. We're looking for systems people and we really like minimalists. What I tell people when I hire them is "If it's in the 1986 SVID or if it is sockets or mmap, you can use it. Anything else is off limits". And our code works everywhere, we can bring up a new platform in about an hour and our source base is not trivial. We're all C and bourne shell (ok, yeah, some tcl/tk for guis). We're hacking bwk's awk source base (he sent me ~bwk/awk with all the source, tests, the source to the book in english and french, gotta love that) so we can use it to be the front end to our simple database (if you think about it an SQL select statement looks one heck of a lot like an awk program). It's pretty cool, we're making a scripting language for systems people that is small. Kind of what perl would have been if it had been part of V7. Oh, and the language is going to be open source if that's important to you. We are looking for a few solid programmers. We pay well, we're profitable, no debt, no outside investors, stable revenue stream, and we're growing. Our growth is limited by our ability to hire which in turn is limited by my taste. Which is very much in line with this community, small is good, simple is good, complex sucks. We live and die by Brian's comment that debugging is harder than coding so if you were clever when you were coding you are by definition not smart enough to debug the code. What we have to offer is a stable place to work, no crap from idiot managers or money grubbing VC's. What we are working is cutting edge, ping me for information, it's more than what is publicly known. We're in the Bay Area and we want you to be too. If it's a fit we'll pay to relocate you. Please let me know if you are interested. And if you aren't but you know someone who is a good fit we'll cough up a $10K referral fee provided that they last at least one year here. Thanks, -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com

19 years, 10 months

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A patch for compiling vtserver under linux ...

by asbesto

Compiling vtserver gave me an error: asbesto@gemini ~/pdp11/vtserver $ cc vtserver.c -o vtserver /tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0x76e): In function o_command': : undefined reference to rrno' /tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0xad6): In function ead_config': : undefined reference to rrno' /tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0xb63): In function ead_config': : undefined reference to rrno' /tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0xd10): In function etraw': : undefined reference to rrno' /tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0xdc1): In function etraw': : undefined reference to rrno' /tmp/ccUTkHRZ.o(.text+0xe7e): more undefined references to rrno' follow collect2: ld returned 1 exit status asbesto@gemini ~/pdp11/vtserver $ This due to the way errno is now used; errno.h has to be included. Here's a patch to compile vtserver 2.3a-20010404 under linux: -------begin-patch-snip-here------ --- vtserver.c 2001-04-04 02:57:38.000000000 +0000 +++ vtserver-linux.c 2005-08-30 20:40:32.000000000 +0000 @@ -74,7 +74,23 @@ #include <unistd.h> #include <stdlib.h> #include <string.h> -char *strerror(int errno); + +#ifdef linux +/* asbesto 30-8-2005 - asbesto(a)freaknet.org + linux need errno.h included. :) +*/ +#include <errno.h> + +/* asbesto 30-8-2005 - asbesto(a)freaknet.org + as errno.h was included, the following line need + to be commented: + char *strerror(int errno); +*/ +#else + + char *strerror(int errno); + +#endif /* Commands sent in both directions */ struct vtcmd { ---------------------end-patch-snap-here--------- maybe this can be included in ftp://minnie.tuhs.org/pub/PDP-11/Vtserver and maybe the version of vtserver has to be changed :) p.s. i'm not so good in C, i quit programming many years ago, i hope this can work ok :))))) hope all this can help. -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 10 months

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Help about Data General ECLIPSE MV/7800XP

by asbesto

Hi, here we are back from pdp-11/34 restoration. We haven't installed unix, because we have to prepare a special disk image for V6 to be installed on the RL02 disk (only 10 megabytes :)... now we're working on the Data General we have at our lab in Palazzolo Acreide, a little town in Sicilia (http://poetry.freaknet.org) We had an hardware problem some time ago - the tape had some electrolytic condensers to be changed, the fuse blow out, ecc. ecc., but now we think the main electric part is OK, because the tape start, and try to load the tape ... but using CLI to boot the tape, we have this error: SCP-CLI> boot Boot from what device? [24]: 22 Fatal System Error: Data Channel Bus Timeout AC0 AC1 AC2 AC3 PC CARRY ATU 00000000044 00000200000 00000170360 37700000000 00000000000 0 OFF SCP-CLI> can someone help? We have original DG/UX tapes here, and we want to install them on our disk, that now contain a weird AOS/VS installation (and we have some backup of it in other tapes) sorry for spamming the mailing list - but this list is our only resort :) (and i apologize for my bad, "italian way" english language :))) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 10 months

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Re: [TUHS] the pdp11/34 BOOTED!!! :)))

by chronaut＠juno.com

Wow, thanks for posting the pics, MAJORLY cool ! it's incredible, after 3 years, it BOOTED !!! the images, taken some minutes ago, are here: http://zaverio.net/pdp11 it's INCREDIBLE we removed the cpu boards, we looked all the chips in it ... eating pizza and sicilian food (you can see it in the photos), and we re-inserted them ... and, just for a desperate test, we tried CTRL-BOOT ... and, THE CPU was RUNNING! so we tested all the console cables ... that seem not working ... we found another cable, with a null-modem converter, so we connected an old IBM terminal ... and, it was incredible, we had the CONSOLE CURSOR!!! :))) NOW, the next step is to FIND what was faulty ... a false contact in the board connectors ??? any other hint? :) p.s. tonight we want to install UNIX. :D -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ] ___________________________________________________________________ Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!

19 years, 10 months

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the pdp11/34 BOOTED!!! :)))

by asbesto

it's incredible, after 3 years, it BOOTED !!! the images, taken some minutes ago, are here: http://zaverio.net/pdp11 it's INCREDIBLE we removed the cpu boards, we looked all the chips in it ... eating pizza and sicilian food (you can see it in the photos), and we re-inserted them ... and, just for a desperate test, we tried CTRL-BOOT ... and, THE CPU was RUNNING! so we tested all the console cables ... that seem not working ... we found another cable, with a null-modem converter, so we connected an old IBM terminal ... and, it was incredible, we had the CONSOLE CURSOR!!! :))) NOW, the next step is to FIND what was faulty ... a false contact in the board connectors ??? any other hint? :) p.s. tonight we want to install UNIX. :D -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 10 months

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Weird result about a test on the pdp11/34 ...

by asbesto

Sorry for this, we are here for a 48 hour continued debugging session at Freaknet Medialab, trying to restore this pdp11/34 ... now we discovered this: running a program full of NOP, followed by HALT, it stop after 12 cycles !!! so, if the program start at 1000, and end at 1100 with the HLT istruction ... the CPU STOP showing 1012 !!! and, if we input the program starting from 1400, all NOP, with the HLT at 1500, it stop at 1412! and, sometimes, it stop on address 002002 !!! it seem not executing the HLT ... what can it be ? :( the 128K mos memory M7891 i tried to repair some time ago ? p.s. the program itself is as we wrote in :! if someone can answer in real time, it would be great - we are also on IRC, #pdp11 on ircnet, and ICQ 36294456. :D -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 10 months

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can someone help about the pdp11/34 boot ? :(

by asbesto

Hi, is anyone here that can help us booting the pdp11/34 ? :( we're becoming mad :((( the boot loader hangs at 001012. can someone help understand why? we haven't any bus error, and we have no prompt at serial terminal pressing "ctrl-boot" this is the boot code, found in "E-10 Loading Software Bootstrap": location contents 001000 012701 001002 174400 001004 012761 001006 000013 001010 000004 001012 012711 001014 000004 001016 105711 001020 100376 001022 005061 001024 000002 001026 005061 001030 000004 001032 012761 001034 177400 001036 000006 001040 012711 001042 000014 001044 105711 001046 100376 001050 005007 starting it, the display show "1012", i think this mean that he stop at address 001012. why? please someone help, we're here trying to boot it. also, some test code and how-to test is appreciated :) -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 10 months

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Original 9 track tape of Unix 7th edition from Bell Laboratories.

by James Falknor

To all concerned, I discovered this little gem up for auction on E-Bay. One of the stickers state that it is Seventh Edition from Bell Labs I have placed a small bid on it ($5.00 US). Advice required: 1. Would it be worth continuing to bid on? 2. What should my highest bid be? 3. Would TUHS be interested in the tape if I should win it? I don't have a tape machine or computer for such tape. Thank you, James Falknor

19 years, 10 months

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Debugging a PDP11/34

by asbesto

Hi, can someone give any hint about debugging a PDP11/34 ? If you remember, we had strange hardware problems and the pdp11/34 can't boot anymore. In these days we will do some testing, so ... we need help! :) tnx all p.s. for info about the problem here: http://groups.google.co.jp/group/alt.sys.pdp11/browse_thread/thread/7b11ffe… -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

19 years, 10 months

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Any Thuth or Zed stuff out there

by Brantley Coile

Are there any people who worked with Thuth or the language Zed out there? Any hope of getting the source for the Zed compiler or a compiler for the Eh language? Brantley

19 years, 10 months

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PDP-11/23 plus minicomputer

by James Falknor

To all interested, This is not meant as a advertising. The following is meant for informational purposes only. An entire PDP-11/23 system plus minicomputer is currently up for auction on E-Bay. http://cgi.ebay.com/Digital-Equipment-Corp-PDP-11-23-plus-minicomputer_W0QQ… There is a person that has requested that the disk drive and disks be dumped if that person should win. There are 2 disks marked "system" on them. As a part of The Unix Heritage Society, I believe we need to keep this system intact. I personally do not have the money to successfully bid and win. I hope somebody from The Unix Heritage Society will take up the cause and make a successful winning bid. The system in it's entirety is a part of The Unix Heritage.

19 years, 11 months

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IBM Xenix 1.00

by James Falknor

To all concerned, I recently came into possesion of IBM's Xenix 1.00 on 5.25 floppy disks for free. Problem is that it is missing disk 3 of 3 or the 4th disk in the set. I have the Installation disk, Disk 1 of 3, and Disk 2 of 3. Does anybody, by any chance, have the 4th disk, Disk 3 of 3 that they would be willing to share? Or, is that not allowed to be asked here? Thank you, James

19 years, 11 months

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Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition

by James Falknor

To all you programmers, I'm sure you're scoffing at me, but I just obtained Borland's C++ BuilderX, Person Edition. It only cost $10.00 U.S. dollars direct from Borland. I plan to teach myself how to view, modify, replace, and write/re-write Unix Operating System code. May I rely on help from TUHS expert programmers? I know I'm going to need the help. My ultimate goal is to bring Unix Version7 into the 21st century. Since 4.3BSD contributed code into Unix Version8, I feel I will probably use portions of the latest BSD sources that are legally available. Again, if I may use those of you that programmers help, I would surely appreciate it alot. Thank you, James Falknor

19 years, 11 months

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Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition

by Andrzej Popielewicz

Użytkownik José R. Valverde napisał: >Looks like overkill to me. It made lots of sense way back then, but as you >are speaking of an X86 port and you can assume an ANSI terminal to be the >default and available, you may as well (at least as a start) do without >termcap and terminfo (BTW I'd bet you don't need support for almost none >of those ancient terminals). > I do not need curses or termcap or terminfo to work under simulated pdp environment via apout in Coherent. As I said I can build everything(using V7 make,cc ans as), it means I can work, and I do not need ANSI terminal (if You have meant true VT100 terminal, and not TERM=vt100 on PC, BTW apout for version 7 assumes as default TERM=vt100 ). I was meaning building in pdp environment running in Coherent, and not building in Coherent via for example a crosscompiler or so. One needs termcap or terminfo if one wants to port more sophisticated tools like vi etc. > >What you can get is then a simpler screen-oriented text editor which can >easily be ported and then used as a bootstrap to port more advanced tools. > >Namely, S from 'A Software Tools Sampler' by Webb Miller. I ported and used >it on both V6 and V7, and still use it on V7 on SIMH. Neat, small, easy to >port, usage alike vi, but much simpler... And comes with some other >interesting tools (actually my first involvement with that code was to have a >unix-like toolkit on eraly VMS long, long ago). > >The code is available on the Net, but I'm including it here as an attachment >as it is not that big (52K). > > j > > Great, I will try it out. I have already tested succesfully more_v7 , which I obtained from Tim. Thanks. I will let You know how it works. Andrzej

19 years, 11 months

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[Fwd: Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition]

by Andrzej Popielewicz

19 years, 11 months

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Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition

by James Falknor

Thanks to all, This project is, indeed, for my own educational purposes. I have always been "all idea, no action" type of person. It's time for me to act on my ideas. I have started by comparing the differences between Unix V7, 32V, Coherent, and NetBSD code base. I wish to preserve as much of Unix V7 as possible. Unix V7 was not without code contributed by others, namely Universities around the world. I don't know the legal logistics, but I don't see any reason to change the name from Unix V7 to anything else. As I begin to make run time progress on this project, I will keep everybody notified. I will also be posting questions as they arise. Thank you, James Falknor (I know I'm not alone with a World of Programmers on this mailing list)

19 years, 11 months

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[Fwd: Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition]

by Andrzej Popielewicz

19 years, 11 months

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[Fwd: Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition]

by Andrzej Popielewicz

19 years, 11 months

1
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[Fwd: Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition]

by Andrzej Popielewicz

19 years, 11 months

1
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Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition

by Brantley Coile

> I do not know Plan9, but according to descriptions I have read, it looks > very interesting. Well it was developed by Bell Lab...(?)-AT/T, which > does not require recommendation.They offer also another interesting OS, > namely Inferno. This is my last email on this subject. Promise. I suggest using the Plan 9 compilers and start with the code for the 32V system. That's the code that first ran on the VAX. It'll be easier to move than the PDP version. It's just Seventh Edition moved to the VAX. I'm using Plan 9 to type this. It's the os I have used as my primary os for the last 10 years. I wrote the Cisco PIX Firewall and the LocalDirector using it. I first used Plan 9 15 years ago at Bell Labs. In a very real sense, it is the true decendent of a very noble line of timesharing systems, going all the way back to MIT's CTSS. You should try Plan 9 for free by downloading it from Bell Labs. It's all open source. Expect to learn a lot. It's UNIX like a Ford Mustang is a T-Model. Lot of the ideas of V7-10 are further developed in Plan 9. It's certainly the os perfered by a good number of UNIX purests. It was the result of a number of poeple, including Ken Thompson, who thought that a fresh code start would allow them to better exploit new technology like networking, hetergenious processors, and symmetrical multiple processors. http://plan9.bell-labs.com I really hope James does the port. I wish I had the time to do it myself. A native V7 port would be really useful in some situations, but more importantly it would help educate new generations of programmers. It would demonstrate the true power and synergy of the software tools approach that UNIX blessed us with. It doesn't need shared libraries, threads, gui's or even vi. The Seventh Edition is amazing technology in a form that can be understood, internalized, and the resulting education used to produce much better modern software. There should be at least a version in it's native form. There's just something special about running it native. Brantley Coile

19 years, 11 months

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(no subject)

by Brantley Coile

>>> "vi". Editing with "cat" is possible but not very useful. I am not going >>> to learn "ed". >> >> Why? > > Simply because. Because I do not like ed. > I want to have useful and user friendly system. To use ed, only because > it is the oldest editor, does not make any sense for me. > I appreciate ed, because of sed, because sed has some similarity to ed > and is extremely useful as a tool. > Unix is not about ed, Unix is about unlimited possibilities of adding > new software , new applications or new editors, it makes Unix beautiful > that it can develop and not editor ed.If ed were all Unix has, it would > not survive. > I hope You accept that someone else can have different favourite > editors. I prefer vi, or even more vim, which is perfect editor.Of > course in the case of emulator missing user friendly editor is not a > problem, because I can edit under Coherent and then build under > emulator.It is good to have a choice, and Unix offers it. In 1983 I was using vi. I allowed a friend to use our system to typeset his companies UNIX manuals, and quickly found that I was having to share the machine with a dozen troff jobs. Vi, being a program that ran in raw mode, didn't respond very well on that 68010 10Mhz system. I was forced to switch to ed. Suddenly I discovered that I had hidden real UNIX behind all those vi commands. I now had plenty of mental capacity to use the rest of the tools available. To really say you understand the spirit of the software tools approach, you must spend a couple of months just using ed. Today I use acme mostly, but still find myself using ed for some edits. I would really encourage you to give it a try. Spend two months just using ed. You cerntainly should use the editor you feel most confortable with, but the growing experience will be well worth your while. Brantley

19 years, 11 months

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Re: [TUHS] Borland's C++ BuilderX, Personal Edition

by Brantley Coile

> OK, so problem is solved.But I suspect it multitasks differently on > different hardware, unless You use existing V7 x86 implementation. I do > not know pdp architecture, I suspect it does differ from x86, I mean > TSS,GDT, TR etc. These details are hidden under the kernel. The idea of a process with address space and other contexts are what V7 provides. It's pretty easy to implement what V7 expects using Intel's paging. Brantley

19 years, 11 months

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Re: [TUHS] Mark Williams Company Unix

by chronaut＠juno.com

Yes I know, my originals were stolen when my car was stolen. I just don't have the time to download a mountain of software right now ! Will U¿ytkownik chronaut(a)juno.com napisa³: Andrzej Popielewicz <vasco(a)icpnet.pl> You need 4 floppies anyway to install Coherent. ___________________________________________________________________ Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!

19 years, 11 months

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Mark Williams Company Unix

by chronaut＠juno.com

Hello everyone, I noticed that there were other flavors of Unix (on CD)for sale on the main website. I wondered who I needed to talk with, or send the $10.00 donation to, so I could get the Coherent stuff burned to CD ? Here's the directory I need. http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Other/Coherent/ My floppies with MWC Unix\X Xindows was stolen along with my automobile when I went to Jackson, MS to replace a retiring systems engineer. Anyway, help from anyone to get this done, would be very much appreciated. I have the original manuals, but no MWC Unix to go with it :) Thanks for any help ! Will ___________________________________________________________________ Try Juno Platinum for Free! Then, only $9.95/month! Unlimited Internet Access with 250MB of Email Storage. Visit http://www.juno.com/value to sign up today!

19 years, 12 months

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Re: [TUHS] DEC V7M-11 manuals

by Carl Lowenstein

> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 07:11:43 +1000 > From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org> > To: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] DEC V7M-11 manuals > > On Tue, Jun 21, 2005 at 09:32:20AM -0700, Carl Lowenstein wrote: > > While preparing to move out of the office that I have occupied for the > > past couple of decades, I came across an unused set of V7M-11 manuals. > > Three large binders, DEC Orange (Chinese Red?). Is this something that > > should be archived somewhere? Scanned and put on line? I don't have > > the resources to do that, but could ship them somewhere. > > > > Labels on the binders are: > > V7M-11 Volume 1 Programmer's Manual > > V7M-11 Volume 2A and 2B Programmer's Manual > > V7M-11 System Management and Operation Manuals > > Carl, we have v7m source + binaries in the Unix Archive, but I'm not sure > if this also includes the documentation that you have unearthed. I will > go through what's in the archive here and see if it corresponds with what > you have, and get back to you. > > Warren Fine. I didn't mention that I also came across a V7M-11 distribution tape, because I was pretty sure you already had that. I will be away for about three weeks starting Monday 27 June, so we might not connect until I get back. On the other hand, these books have been sitting around for a few years, another month won't hurt them. carl

20 years

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DEC V7M-11 manuals

by Carl Lowenstein

While preparing to move out of the office that I have occupied for the past couple of decades, I came across an unused set of V7M-11 manuals. Three large binders, DEC Orange (Chinese Red?). Is this something that should be archived somewhere? Scanned and put on line? I don't have the resources to do that, but could ship them somewhere. Labels on the binders are: V7M-11 Volume 1 Programmer's Manual V7M-11 Volume 2A and 2B Programmer's Manual V7M-11 System Management and Operation Manuals carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst(a)ucsd.edu

20 years

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Unix Tenth Edition ownership?

by James Falknor

To all Unix Officiando's, Who has ownership of Unix Tenth Edition? Has anybody tried contacting the current owner for it's release under an OSI approved license? Thank you, James Falknor

20 years

3
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Re: [TUHS] Solaris 10 source code

by James

Groklaw (http://www.groklaw.net/) has some VERY good discussion of the 'openness' of this code... -----Original Message----- From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net> Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2005 15:52:35 To:<tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org> Subject: RE: [TUHS] Solaris 10 source code Hello from Gregg C Levine However, it happens that I spent some time talking with the folks at the company in question, during the boot camp sessions that launched Sol 10. It happens that the code is one hundred percent theirs. Now there might be some lingering strangeness that follows from the BSD evolved forms of Sol leading up to 10, that is all there will be. Although I suspect a good hacker would be able to sort out the differences and dummy up a working kit to support the assertions of yours James Falknor, I myself do not have those talents. However, Andrzej Popielewicz, I welcome your efforts. ---- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net --- "The Force will be with you... Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi > -----Original Message----- > From: tuhs-bounces(a)minnie.tuhs.org [mailto:tuhs-bounces@minnie.tuhs.org] On > Behalf Of Andrzej Popielewicz > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 12:39 PM > To: James Falknor > Cc: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Solaris 10 source code > > Uz.ytkownik James Falknor napisa?: > > > To all the Unix Officiando's, > > > > Have any of you checked out the recent release of Sun's Solaris 10 > > source code known as OpenSolaris? > > > > What are your thoughts on the subject? > > > > Is the source code still considered to be based on SVR4? > > > > Any likely chance of using Solaris source code to bring 32V or Version > > 7 of Unix into the modern world of x86 usage? > > > > Thank you, > > James Falknor > > > <<<SNIP!>>> > I did not check sources of Solaris 10 yet, but as an owner of many > Solaris 8/9 licenses I will certainly do it. > As far as Unix Version 7 is concerned I see some chances . Let us > consider such idea . > For example Coherent is based on Unix version 7. It has also support for > DKI/DDI driver interface (but not complete implementation). Solaris > drivers as far as I know use DKI/DDI. So there is some chance that at > least drivers could be in some way portable . > Probably using NetBSD would be also an alternative. > > Andrzej _______________________________________________ TUHS mailing list TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs Sent wirelessly via BlackBerry from T-Mobile.

20 years

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Solaris 10 source code

by James Falknor

To all the Unix Officiando's, Have any of you checked out the recent release of Sun's Solaris 10 source code known as OpenSolaris? What are your thoughts on the subject? Is the source code still considered to be based on SVR4? Any likely chance of using Solaris source code to bring 32V or Version 7 of Unix into the modern world of x86 usage? Thank you, James Falknor

20 years

3
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[pups] Looking for PDP-11 Newsweek ad circa 1981

by Ryan Doherty

Hello, I am looking for a copy (electronic or paper) of the digital PDP-11 advertisement that appeared in Newsweek in the early 1980s. The ad states "Who needs a computer with thousands of software programs?", with sketches of people explaining how the computer can be used in their field (ie. "I need it for word processing", "designing bridges", "collecting the bills", etc). Do you know where I can find a copy of it? Sincerely, Ryan Doherty --------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new Resources site!

20 years

2
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Re: [pups] Hardware Upgrade to Minnie

by Robertdkeys＠aol.com

Although a /70 might be fun, or even a /93, but.... nay, an update to a VAX would be fun.....(:+}}..... Call her MinnieVAX@tuhs.org.....(:+}}..... gasp! (Sorry Warren) Bob Keys

20 years

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Re: Sad news from IBM...

by James Falknor

> > >I was reading Groklaw yesterday night when I came across this. It is a >very sad thought to know that possibly tons of old/ancient code is being >dumped in the trash bin. > >More so now since the advent of software patents: it may become very >difficult to avoid a patent on a re-invention of the wheel if previous >knowledge has been dumped. > >OK, the quote. It is from "the Todd Shaughnessy affidavit [PDF] from IBM >that Magistrate Judge Brooke Wells requested they file when they turned >over all the code and paperwork to SCO": > > 28. As I have noted above, IBM does not maintain revision control > information for AIX source code pre-dating 1991. To the extent that > any code for the AIX operating system (that did not duplicate the > code already being produced in CMVC) was found during the search > described in Paragraph 26-27 above, it was produced. Paragraphs > 29-31 below describe additional search efforts IBM undertook to > locate pre-1991 versions of AIX code. No versions of AIX pre-dating > 1991 were found. > > 29. In the 1980s and early 1990s, IBM prepared vital records backups > of AIX source code and transferred them to a remote storage location. > At some point in the 1990s, the AIX vital records tapes were transferred > to Austin, Texas. In late 2000, the tapes were determined to be obsolete, > and were not retained. > > 30. The AIX development organization contacted other IBM employees who > were known or believed to have been involved with the development or > product release of AIX versions prior to 1991. In addition, IBM > managers and attorneys asked current members of the AIX development > organization whether they were aware of the location of pre-1991 > releases of AIX source code. No one asked was aware of any remaining > copies of pre-1991 AIX source code. > >Perhaps we should do something to raise awareness about the relevance of >legacy (not only UNIX) source code. And in any case, it is a pity that all >that historical information had been lost forever. > >I have always complained about this, and consider it the biggest drawback of >closed proprietary source code: it is OK that law protects developer interests >with the goal of promoting innovation and the public benefit at large. But it >is a lose for everybody whenever any such "protected" code is dumped into the >bin banning anyone else from further benefitting from or exploiting it, and >opening the road for opportunists to claim they "newly invented" it. > >Sic. Sigh. > j > All may not be lost. As it appears to me, TUHS has connections with Universities / Colleges and other types schools, as well as programmers, software engineers and the like. All we need to do is put the word out that TUHS is seeking pre-1991 AIX source code and it's bound to surface. If all else fails, I'm sure someone has a pre-1991 AIX binary distribution that could be disassembled (that is if a binary distribution can be disassembled back to a rough source code). To all TUHS members, As a part of the heritage of Unix, please search any and all your archives for pre-1991 AIX Source Code. Maybe, just maybe, a pre-1991 AIX Binary Distribution will suffice. Help IBM, TUHS, and in the end, the heritage of Unix. Thank you, James Falknor

20 years

2
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Re: Re: Plan 9 port license (was: licence of ditroff?)

by Greg 'groggy' Lehey

Somehow this message got stuck at the wrong end of my inbox. It relates to a thread on this list a few months back. The content speaks for itself, so I'll just forward it here. Greg ----- Forwarded message from Russ Cox <russcox(a)gmail.com> ----- > Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 18:33:17 -0500 > From: Russ Cox <russcox(a)gmail.com> > Reply-To: Russ Cox <russcox(a)gmail.com> > To: Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> > Subject: Re: Plan 9 port license (was: licence of ditroff?) > > [Feel free to forward this response to the appropriate lists.] > > On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 09:39:32 +1030, Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> wrote: >> As you can see, there's a certain amount of confusion about the >> license of this software. I took a cursory look and couldn't find >> anything. In this day of predatory companies, it would be good to >> have clarity. Could you please clarify, both to the list and on the >> web site? > > The license is the Lucent Public License. There are some exceptions > with MIT-like licensing, but troff is not one of them. This is made clear > if you look in the tar file -- there is a LICENSE file in the root that > explains the situation. I've added a link to this file on the web site > next to the download link. > > I hate haggling over licensing so I try to draw as little attention as > possible to such issues. I do appreciate their importance. > > The Lucent Public License is the IBM Public License made optionally non-viral. > If you want to contribute changes back to the Plan 9 project, then > those changes must be made available under the LPL. But (and > this is where the difference is) if you don't want to contribute your > changes back, then you don't have to. > >>>> Instead of starting with 27 year old code, you'd be better >>>> off taking the troff from http://www.swtch.com/plan9port. >>> >>> Thanks, that's a nice idea, but from what I experienced, >>> the portability of recent AT&T/Bell/Lucent/whatever code >>> is worse than the bugs in old code (eg. I could not get >>> ksh93 to compile, something in there just dumped core; >>> but then that's Unix, not Plan 9). > > Confusing Plan 9 with ksh is sure to offend both sets of authors. > > Plan9port builds and runs fine on Linux, FreeBSD, SunOS, and Mac OS X, > and I'm sure it would be easy to get running on other Unix-like systems, > but I haven't had the need and no one has mailed me diffs. > >>>> This is a port of many Plan 9 utilities to Unix. The troff there >>>> (a) has an explicit license that will probably do for the BSD people >>> >>> If it's the same licence as for 8c, then no, unfortunately. > > It's the LucentPL as mentioned earlier. I'm sure the BSD guys > won't love it (it's not the BSD license), but at least it's not viral. > > Russ ----- End forwarded message ----- -- The virus contained in this message was not detected. Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key. See complete headers for address and phone numbers.

20 years

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[pups] Hardware Upgrade to Minnie

by wkt＠minnie.tuhs.org

All, sometime around noon localtime on Tuesday 7th June, I will be upgrading the hardware which is minnie.tuhs.org from a 500MHz P3 to a 2.4GHz P4. This will include an operating system upgrade (FreeBSD 4.8 to FreebSD 5.3) and upgrades to the major subsystems (web, e-mail, mailing lists, twiki etc.). Although I have had the new system running standalone for a few weeks, I expect that there will be some breakages once it takes over from the old system. Therefore, please be patient while I resolve any issues. If you do notice some problems with the new system, then e-mail me at wkt(a)tuhs.org. Thanks, Warren

20 years, 1 month

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Hardware Upgrade to Minnie

by wkt＠minnie.tuhs.org

All, sometime around noon localtime on Tuesday 7th June, I will be upgrading the hardware which is minnie.tuhs.org from a 500MHz P3 to a 2.4GHz P4. This will include an operating system upgrade (FreeBSD 4.8 to FreebSD 5.3) and upgrades to the major subsystems (web, e-mail, mailing lists, twiki etc.). Although I have had the new system running standalone for a few weeks, I expect that there will be some breakages once it takes over from the old system. Therefore, please be patient while I resolve any issues. If you do notice some problems with the new system, then e-mail me at wkt(a)tuhs.org. Thanks, Warren

20 years, 1 month

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Re: [pups] S.R.Bourne and the shell

by Pete Turnbull

On May 19 2005, 12:11, Andrew Lynch wrote: > On May 19, 11:16pm, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > > > I've found a copy of the book "The Unix System" and I've had the > > paper "An Introduction to the UNIX Shell" for 20 years, but I thought > > I'd seen a slim book by S.R.Bourne called "The UNIX Shell" or something > > of the sort. However, Google, Bibliofind, etc have turned up nothing; > > has anyone seen this, or is my memory at fault once more? > > Are you possibly thinking of an article that appeared in the 1978 Bell System > Technical Journal? I probably am... > This article is supposed to have also appeared in Volume 2 of the UNIX > Programmer's Manual - which would imply that it is the same as "An Introduction > to the UNIX Shell" (which is what my 7th Ed Manual contains). Yes, that's in mine too. I just thought the "slim book" had slightly more in it, but perhaps that's because it has smaller pages, and therefore the artice is spread over more of them. I think our library has a copy of the BSTJ, so I can check. Someone emailed me off-list with a URL for an HTML-ised version; thanks, but I have a real 7th Edition Manual with that paper, as well as the troff source on my (original) 7th Edition distro. -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 1 month

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Coherent 128 MB RAM

by Andrzej Popielewicz

Hi, I have added test version of binary kernel for Coherent 4.2.10 with support for fixed 128 MB RAM(tested on 300 MHZ system). Check http://www.staff.amu.edu.pl/~apopiele/embed.html. I have approval of the owner of Coherent, so it is legal to download and use this kernel. Andrzej

20 years, 1 month

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[pups] S.R.Bourne and the shell

by Pete Turnbull

I've found a copy of the book "The Unix System" and I've had the paper "An Introduction to the UNIX Shell" for 20 years, but I thought I'd seen a slim book by S.R.Bourne called "The UNIX Shell" or something of the sort. However, Google, Bibliofind, etc have turned up nothing; has anyone seen this, or is my memory at fault once more? -- Pete Peter Turnbull Network Manager University of York

20 years, 1 month

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Re: [pups] S.R.Bourne and the shell

by Andrew Lynch

On May 19, 11:16pm, Pete Turnbull wrote: > > I've found a copy of the book "The Unix System" and I've had the > paper "An Introduction to the UNIX Shell" for 20 years, but I thought > I'd seen a slim book by S.R.Bourne called "The UNIX Shell" or something > of the sort. However, Google, Bibliofind, etc have turned up nothing; > has anyone seen this, or is my memory at fault once more? Are you possibly thinking of an article that appeared in the 1978 Bell System Technical Journal? >From the bibliography in "The UNIX System": Bourne, S. R. 1978. "UNIX Time-Sharing System: The UNIX Shell". Bell Sys. Tech. J. 57(6) 1971-90. The issues of BSTJ that I have seen could be described as slim books - roughly A5 paperback, around 200 pages. This article is supposed to have also appeared in Volume 2 of the UNIX Programmer's Manual - which would imply that it is the same as "An Introduction to the UNIX Shell" (which is what my 7th Ed Manual contains). Andrew.

20 years, 1 month

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Location of a Coherent distribution?

by Andrzej Popielewicz

Hi Paul, I have seen in the tuhs list, that You are going to upload 4.2.10 sources . Can You tell me , where did You get if from ? Or You mean sources of 4.2.14 once available at demon or mayn ? Or Did You get it from MWC ? Regards Andrzej P.S It does not mean I am interested . I have authoried sources of 4.2.10.

20 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] Mention TUHS in Linux Magazine (US)?

by Carl Lowenstein

> From: Jerry Peek <jpeek(a)jpeek.com> > To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2005 09:50:21 -0700 > Subject: [TUHS] Mention TUHS in Linux Magazine (US)? > Hi everyone. I'm a short-time UNIX user (I started in 1981 :) > and also a columnist for Linux Magazine (in the US: not the UK > flavour). I just came across TUHS while I was searching for a > V7 cp(1) manpage. (I found it, BTW, via Warren Toomey's page > http://mirror.cc.vt.edu/pub/projects/Ancient_Unix/Documentation/PUPS/manpag….) > > I'm writing a series of columns on "What's GNU in Old Utilities". > It describes new features of GNU utilities like cat(1) and > contrasts them to "how we used to do it." I'd like to mention > TUHS in the third column, which should be out in August. It > seems that TUHS is alive and well. If any of you have comments > or complaints about that idea, though, would you please let me > know before May 1 -- which is when the column is due? Thanks. More power to you. Just keep a sharp eye out for things that are touted as "new improved GNU features" that have been around since the days of 6th Edition or 7th Edition Unix. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst(a)ucsd.edu

20 years, 1 month

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Mention TUHS in Linux Magazine (US)?

by Jerry Peek

Hi everyone. I'm a short-time UNIX user (I started in 1981 :) and also a columnist for Linux Magazine (in the US: not the UK flavour). I just came across TUHS while I was searching for a V7 cp(1) manpage. (I found it, BTW, via Warren Toomey's page http://mirror.cc.vt.edu/pub/projects/Ancient_Unix/Documentation/PUPS/manpag….) I'm writing a series of columns on "What's GNU in Old Utilities". It describes new features of GNU utilities like cat(1) and contrasts them to "how we used to do it." I'd like to mention TUHS in the third column, which should be out in August. It seems that TUHS is alive and well. If any of you have comments or complaints about that idea, though, would you please let me know before May 1 -- which is when the column is due? Thanks. Jerry -- Jerry Peek, jpeek(a)jpeek.com, http://www.jpeek.com/

20 years, 2 months

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Re: [TUHS] Mention TUHS in Linux Magazine (US)?

by Warren Toomey

On Fri, Apr 29, 2005 at 12:13:39PM +0300, Aharon Robbins wrote: > Where can we get "cat -v considered harmful" and do you want to start > archiving such papers on the TUHS site too? There's lots by Henry Spencer > and Geoff Collyer on C and Unix system from the 80s that would be worth > having in an accessable place. > Arnold That's a good idea. Warren

20 years, 2 months

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re: Mention TUHS in Linux Magazine (US)?

by dmr＠plan9.bell-labs.com

Jerry Peek wrote: > I'm writing a series of columns on "What's GNU in Old Utilities". > It describes new features of GNU utilities like cat(1) and > contrasts them to "how we used to do it." The most famous rant on this topic (actually BSD, not GNU) was by Rob Pike, "UNIX Style: cat -v considered harmful" I couldn't find the thing itself (it's from a Usenix conference in 1983) but there's a .ps version of a contemporary paper with most of the content under http://gaul.org/files/cat_-v_considered_harmful.html Dennis

20 years, 2 months

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[pups] Seeking info on SBC11/21+ Falcon Plus

by Magnus Danielson

Dear all, I'm sitting here with a M7676 SBC11/21+ Falcon Plus card. It came with a BA11-VA chassi and a custom A/D card (controlled over the parallel bus). I have been scanning the Internet a number of times, but have had no luck in finding much material related. It has the T11 (DC310) chip, a pair of DC 319 serial chips and some unknown chip called DC331 "FALCON". I've found a few related hints about it in the Micronotes (about the 82S100 PLA chip among other things). I've also done some reverse-engineering, so part of the schematic is know to me. But, since I have no plans of reverse-engineering the DC331 chip getting the hands on some hard documents would be much apprechiated. I also have a DEQNA card that I got from a friend. I am missing out on the AUI port, so any information (schematic would be great) beyond the user guide is appreachiated. Cheers, Magnus

20 years, 2 months

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simh 6th ed?

by Tim Newsham

Hi, I'm playing with simh and the 6th ed software pack (uv6swre http://simh.trailing-edge.com/software.html) It turns out that it didn't have /usr/sys, so I grabbed sources from http://miffy.tom-yam.or.jp/2238/rl/ (they had an RL image and a kernel patched with rl support). Also strangely the kernel doesnt print the normal (c) when booting. Is the unix kernel that comes with the software patch hacked up? Anyway, I'm now trying to build a kernel and having no success. In /usr/sys running "sh run" works properly and it makes a bunch of /*unix files. When I try to boot them though it just hangs. I get no output. I've tried building rkunix with and without the m45.s bits commented out. Has anyone had luck with building the kernel? Any pointers? Tim Newsham http://www.lava.net/~newsham/

20 years, 2 months

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(resend) Not strictly TUHS, but

by Wesley Parish

(Not receiving a reply back then, I'm going to ask again. My apologies for any inconvenience.) wotthehell, I'm going to ask anyway. Soemtime during the late 1980s, Clarkson U., came out with a GPLed MS-DOS word processor package called Galahad, released under the Galahad Public License, which is a rebadged GNU Emacs Public License. I've sent them the CS Professor an email requesting the source. I was wondering if anyone on this list might have the sources, because as yet I've had no reply. Thanks Wesley Parish -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.

20 years, 2 months

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Help about a DATA GENERAL ECLIPSE MV-7800 with DG-UX

by asbesto

Hi all, we recently received this fantastic machine for our computer museum. We need some help because we can't find any documentation about the "console cable", to connect a tty terminal to it, and make it boot (or test the cpu, or whatever) we think we have only a part of the manuals, so we can't make progress booting it and we don't want to make casual testing ... can someone help? some documentation images can be found here: http://dyne.org/~asbesto/missionecompiuta1/ http://dyne.org/~asbesto/missionecompiuta2/ http://dyne.org/~asbesto/missionecompiuta3/ sorry for some crazy and funny images - we are really crazy people :D -- [ asbesto : IW9HGS : freaknet medialab : radiocybernet : poetry ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ http://www.emergelab.org :: NON SCRIVERMI USANDO LE ACCENTATE ] [ *I DELETE* EMAIL > 100K, ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD DOC, SPAM ]

20 years, 2 months

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unix non disclosure clauses

by martin hardie

Hi i joined this list as I found some intersting stuff in its archives and I am working on my Phd in law concerning the logic and rhetoric of FOSS and i thought maybe the list would be a good source of knowledgable information. I am currently proofing a draft thesis chapter I have put together on the early history of Unix and have a question or two arising from text of the early licences. The 1974 licence to the Catholic University in Holland (I guess this was to Andy Tanenbaum) has a confidentiality clause in it. I presume this was a standard clause. That is interesting from lots of perspectives - the myth of a unix commons, which we both know is a myth in the GNUish sense although people like Lessig still say it in their tomes; and from the perspective that copyright or patents where not used to cover the code but confidential inofrmation - this resonates with my work with Aboriginal artists in Australia and their communal system of knowledge production and with the notion of trust and equity which I am building towards in this research. But right now what interests me is a bit more in the context of contemporary "licence fetishism" or the way licences and IP were viewed back then. I am sort of trying to deal with the way that many commentators (like Lessig, Wayner and even Raymond) credit changes in unix and linux to legal command. I just don't buy that but position them more in the context of the globalisation of production. Anyway, the question - the licences prohibited dissemination of Unix to third parties - eg in the case of universities the system could only be given/shown to students and employees. How then was the question of bugs, fixes and updates dealt with? Did everything come back to Bell and then get dealt with from there. IE the question of who controllled "R&D"? Did universities talk directly to each other? And if so when did this become a problem for AT&T? If at all? If they did was there any conception that they were breaking the licence conditions? I am also intrigued about Raymond's comment that Ken quietly shipped out copies of the program with a note "love Ken". Is this based in fact? was it a covert operation? And is it tied into the matter of turning a blind eye to licence conditions eg the unis talking to each other directly? Is that clear? If the uni's were talking to each other and Ken was sending out gift wrapped parcels ......... maybe there was a commons but not one annointed by law..... Thanks Martin

20 years, 2 months

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I came across this

by Wesley Parish

here: http://www.finseth.com/~fin/emacs.html Anyone got any idea where it might be hiding out? Thanks Wesley Parish // Emacs [toc] name: Emacs last changed/verified: 1994-12-20 original distribution: 1975 version: 165 base language: MIDAS (PDP10/DEC-20 assembly language) implementation language: TECO extension language: TECO scope of implementation: extensible hardware/software requirements: PDP10/ITS or DEC-20/TOPS-20 organization/author: Richard M. Stallman MIT AI Lab/MIT Lab. for Comp. Sci. 545 Technology Square Cambridge MA 02139 USA Note: this is the original free, anonymous FTP from ? -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.

20 years, 2 months

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franz-lisp

by Wesley Parish

I downloaded this a short while ago and am interested in trying it out on my Linux box and also on my Windows machine, through the MinGW compiler suite. But lispconf is demanding cvt.awk and it's not on my system. Can anyone help me out? Thanks Wesley Parish -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.

20 years, 2 months

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Not strictly TUHS, but

by Wesley Parish

wotthehell, I'm going to ask anyway. Soemtime during the late 1980s, Clarkson U., came out with a GPLed MS-DOS word processor package called Galahad, released under the Galahad Public License, which is a rebadged GNU Emacs Public License. I've sent them the CS Professor an email requesting the source. I was wondering if anyone on this list might have the sources, because as yet I've had no reply. Thanks Wesley Parish -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.

20 years, 3 months

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Re: [TUHS] Why you should not be wasting electricity powering old computers

by Kenneth Stailey

--- Kenneth Stailey <kstailey(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > http://kimaura.com/peakoil/peakoil-56k.ram Good Old 7-bit ASCII transcript of the dialog in that streaming video. Doesn't have any of the charts so there are places you will find you can't follow it since Roscoe is just point to a chart. Excerpts from the US Congressional Record follow: OIL PRODUCTION -- (House of Representatives - March 14, 2005) The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a previous order of the House, the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. Gilchrest) is recognized for 5 minutes. Mr. GILCHREST. Mr. Speaker, in just a few minutes, the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. Bartlett) will address the House for some period of time talking about energy sources, oil in particular, and the fact that many experts say that oil production, especially in the United States, but actually throughout the world, oil production of conventional oil under current patterns is expected to grow at a rate much faster, that means the use of oil by the world community is supposed to grow much faster than oil discovery production. [Time: 19:45] What is clear, because we are not sure exactly when that peak will come in oil production, some say it is peaking right now, some say it will peak in 10 years, the amount of oil we get out of the ground will exceed the demand; but what is clear is that at some point in this century, world oil production will peak and then begin to decline. There is uncertainty about the date because many countries that produce oil do not provide credible data on how big their reserves are. But more uncertainty calls for more caution, not less; and caution in this case means working to develop alternatives. When production of conventional oil peaks, we can expect a large increase in the price up to the price of the substitutes, whether so-called unconventional oil or renewable fuels. Although increasing domestic production may ease oil dependence slightly, the United States is only 3 percent of the world's estimated oil reserves and uses 25 percent of the world's oil. I want to explain just from the perspective of the United States the huge increase in energy demand in the last century. I am going to use the word ``quadrillion.'' Quadrillion is a number. If I put 1 followed by 15 zeroes, I have the number quadrillion. To measure energy use in a country, we use BTUs, British thermal units. A new furnace, whether oil or natural gas, you see the BTU to determine how much energy it is going to use. When you use BTUs to determine how much energy a country uses, you use a short term for quadrillion called ``quads.'' In 1910, the United States used 7 quads of BTUs. That is 7 quadrillion BTUs. In 1950, the United States used 35 quadrillion BTUs. In 2005, the United States uses 100 quadrillion BTUs, and we are accelerating that. We are increasing demand for oil for our energy needs. The world right now, 2005, uses 345 quadrillion BTUs, an enormous amount of energy. We know today that our appliances, whether a washing machine, a refrigerator or dishwasher, we know they are much more efficient than they ever were, certainly 20, 30, 40 years ago; and yet we are using more electricity, not less. We know that automobiles and trucks and our transportation is much more efficient than it was 20 years ago, and yet the demand is increasing. We burn more coal, more natural gas. Each home, as efficient as each home is today, burns much more oil and electricity because of the demand on energy needs. We are not decreasing by getting efficient. Because our demand is greater, we are using more and more. The question is if we are increasing demand and production is going to peak now or in the next decade or two and our production goes down while the demand goes up, especially with oil reserves, are we at the early stages of the twilight for oil as an energy source? And if we are, what do we do? Well, the gentleman from Maryland (Mr. Bartlett) will speak on a number of aspects of oil production decline. We will talk much further about the details of the solution to the problems of [Page: H1409] our energy decline, but I want to close with two last things: How do we harness a new alternative energy source and make it replace what we have been using for more than 2 centuries? How do we do that? We do it with initiative, ingenuity, intellect, vision, and leadership. [portions deleted] OIL DEMAND -- (House of Representatives - March 14, 2005) MR. ROSCOE BARTLETT A couple of Congresses ago, I was privileged to chair the Energy Subcommittee on Science. One of the first things I wanted to do was to determine the dimensions of the problem. We held a couple of hearings and had the world experts in. Surprisingly from the most pessimistic to the most optimistic, there was not much deviation in what the estimate is as to what the known reserves are out there. It is about 1,000 gigabarrels. That sounds like an awful lot of oil. But when you divide into that the amount of oil which we use, [Page: H1410] about 20 million barrels a day, and the amount of oil the rest of the world uses, about 60 million barrels a day, as a matter of fact, the total now is a bit over the 80 million that those two add up to. About 83 1/2 , I think. If you divide that into the 1,000 gigabarrels, you come out at about 40 years of oil remaining in the world. That is pretty good. Because up until the Carter years, during the Carter years, in every decade we used as much oil as had been used in all of previous history. Let me repeat that, because that is startling. In every decade, we used as much oil as had been used in all of previous history. The reason for that, of course, was that we were on the upward side of this bell curve. The bell curve for usage, only part of it is shown on this chart. That is the green one down here, the bell curve for usage. Notice that we are out here now about 2005. Where is it going? The Energy Information Agency says that we are going to keep on using more oil. This green line just going up and up and up is a projection of the Energy Information Agency. But that cannot be true. That cannot be true for a couple of reasons. We peaked in our discovery of oil way back here in the late sixties, about 1970. In our country it peaked much earlier than that, by the way. But the world is following several years behind us. And the area under this red curve must be the same as the area under the green curve. You cannot pump any more oil than you have found, quite obviously. If you have not found it, you cannot pump it. If you were to extend this on out where they have extended their green line, even if it turned down right there at the end of that green line, the area under the green curve is going to be very much larger than the area under the red curve. That just cannot be. We will see in some subsequent charts that we probably have reached peak oil. Let me mention that M. King Hubbert looked at the world situation. He was joined by another scientist, Colin Campbell, who is still alive, an American citizen who lives in Scotland. Using M. King Hubbert's predictive techniques, oil was predicted to reach a maximum in about 1995, without perturbations. But there were some perturbations. One of the perturbations was 1973, the Arab oil embargo. Other perturbations were the oil price shocks and a worldwide recession that reduced the demand for oil. And so the peak that might have occurred in 1995 will occur later. How much later? That is what we are looking at this evening. There is a lot of evidence that suggests that if not now, then very quickly we should see world production of oil peak. [portions deleted] What now? Where do we go now? One observer, Matt Savinar, who has thoroughly researched the options, and this is not the most optimistic assessment, by the way, but may be somewhat realistic, he starts out by saying, Dear Readers, civilization as we know it is coming to an end soon. I hope not. This is not the wacky proclamation of a doomsday cult, apocalypse Bible sect or conspiracy theory society. Rather, it is a scientific conclusion of the best-paid, most widely respected geologists, physicists and investment bankers in the world. These are rational, professional, conservative individuals who are absolutely terrified by the phenomenon known as global peak oil. [portions deleted]

20 years, 3 months

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JPLDIS - still extant?

by Wesley Parish

I was looking around for stuff to play with on FreeDOS and I thought, do they have any DBMS yet? So I googled for (dbase public domain) and got something about the aforesaid JPLDIS, the Jet Propulsion Laboratory's Display and Information System. Anyone got any ideas of its continued existence? (It's written in Fortran, I judge, and I think there are a few PD Fortrans out there that could be used to reanimate it. ;) Thanks Wesley Parish -- Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish ----- Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui? You ask, what is the most important thing? Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata. I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.

20 years, 3 months

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[TUHS] Why you should not be wasting electricity powering old computers

by Norman Wilson

Kenneth Stailey: http://kimaura.com/peakoil/peakoil-56k.ram ======= Because it's too much bother to set up Real Audio on the ancient or unusual operating systems that are the reason such old computers are interesting? In any case, let he who has gone the longest without owning or operating an internal-combustion engine cast the first stone. (Mind your head, Jim.) Norman Wilson Toronto ON

20 years, 3 months

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[TUHS] Why you should not be wasting electricity powering old computers

by Kenneth Stailey

http://kimaura.com/peakoil/peakoil-56k.ram

20 years, 3 months

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Got old MVII critter and wanna bring up a 4.3BSD family thingy.....but no tape..

by Robertdkeys＠aol.com

Having fallen into that trap of another one dollar vax.....of the Qbus variety, and, wanting to try to bring up another round of some sort of 4.3BSD related thingy, but, with no tape drive or tape cartridges, can anyone come up with a dd'able root image that is known to work on an MVII critter, AND, have a footprint of 1mb or less (i.e., a disklabel of only 1mb size or less)? Sadly, all my tapes have decomposed to dust, and I am down to one questionable TK50 tape drive. I can get a boot of the Quasijarus boot, off a floppy, but it won't read a miniroot that was dd'd onto a swap partition correctly. I can boot a NetBSD 1.4.1 and work back to a NetBSD-1.0A which is usable to unroll file systems onto a drive, but, it won't boot the kernel correctly into a 4.3BSDish system. I still need the correct boot blocks and boots. I did try an image from vaxpower's root, and that booted and ran mostly OK, but, it had a label set up for a 4 gig drive, and my controller has early enough proms that it won't handle anything larger than a 1 gb drive. I tried a couple of other images from here and there, but the boot blocks are not quite right to run on my vax. So, anyone have handy a dd'able root with boot blocks, set up for a 1gb or smaller drive, that is known to work on an MVII critter for some flavor of 4.3BSD (4.3, Tahoe, Reno, Quasijarus) that I could use to get my machine up? The only constraints on the image are that it must have a label set up for a 1gb or smaller drive, and it must have a usable ftp from usr/bin dropped into bin, so I can ftp in the rest of the system after booting up the root image. One other thought might be to create a bootable dd image with a root only system that contains all the requisite user bits on say a 100mb or so root file system. That is non-standard, from the traditionalists point of view, but, at least the system would come up essentially running, and complete. It could then be partitioned and cloned off onto a standardly partitioned drive, as a next step. Like a fool, the last time I ran the system, about 5 years ago, I religiously copied off all the bits onto cd, except for a dd'able boot/root image... drat! Kick, Kick, Kick... etc.....(:+{{..... Any pointers to such an image, or anyone that has a system up that might create me such an image, would be greatly appreciated. With the EOL of many tapes at hand, I suspect that it may be the only good way to bring up a 4.3BSDish system on a Qbus box, and we might should save up a such usable image in the TUHS archives. Thanks Bob Keys

20 years, 3 months

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Intergraph 2700

by Paul Ward

Hello all, A friend of mine has liberated an old Intergraph 2700 workstation from a basement. The system looks to be in fine condition and boots up to multiuser+X. However, there appears to be a problem. I am not sure whether the problem is hardware or software, but the digitizer puck seems to have stopped sending anything back to the workstation. I have to say that I am not 100% sure how Intergraph digitizers are wired up -- the cable from the digitizer is run via a split cable, so one can be wired up to the mouse port, and the other to the RS232 port, right now I have plugged both in. Is there anyone with Intergraph experience who can enlighten me in regards to the cables, or maybe some diagnostics that can be done on the puck? The puck is a 12-button grey creature, and the digitizer is a Kurta XLC (sorry, I am not infront of the system right now, and can't remember the model number). Another thing to note is that I can't recover the root password without some sort of pointer device input, and thus cannot log in to diagnose any possible software problems. -- Best regards, Paul mailto:asmodai@ao.mine.nu http://ao.mine.nu/ (NeXTmail) mailto:nextmail@ao.mine.nu

20 years, 3 months

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ultrix and y2k

by alex＠lava-net.com

Hi, Since the ultrix-4.2 source was "liberated" has anyone atempted to fix some of the y2k issues? (I'd like to run it on some vaxen I have access to and it's kinda useless without y2k support). Does this source even compile? thanks.

20 years, 4 months

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Lion's

by Tim Newsham

For those looking for a copy of Lion's: http://www.lulu.com/content/99701

20 years, 4 months

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Sprite OS trouble.

by Jochen Kunz

Hi. I am trying to bring up a Sprite cluster. [1] I was able to get the demo system running on a SPARCstation 1+ by dd-ing the boot image to a disk. Now I wane label an additional disk, make LFS, ... make the new disk bootable to get more free disk space then I have on the premade boot image. But I can't get a label on the disk with labeldisk nor did I succeed using fsmakeprompt. The later crashes... Next step is to bring a SPARCstation 2, an IPX and two ELCs into the cluster. Is there someone out there with Sprite experience who can help me? Additionaly I was not able to get the PMAX image to work on my DECstation 5000/240 nor my DECstation 3100. Any ideas? Do I really need a DECstation 5000/200 for this? [1] http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/Research/Projects/sprite/ A mixed architecture, distributed single system image OS capable of process migration that presented the cluster to a user as a single, large multiprocessor machine. Pmake and LFS (Log-Structured File System) originate from Sprite. -- tschüß, Jochen Homepage: http://www.unixag-kl.fh-kl.de/~jkunz/

20 years, 4 months

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stuff

by Keith Jackson

Maybe somebody wants this stuff? http://madsoft.lonestar.org/garage/

20 years, 5 months

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A BSD Question

by Kenneth Stailey

Who was the great Yang of Cardiff-by-the-Sea?

20 years, 5 months

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Re: [TUHS] licence of ditroff?

by Aharon Robbins

> Date: Mon, 31 Jan 2005 17:50:26 +0000 (UTC) > From: Thorsten Glaser <tg(a)66h.42h.de> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] licence of ditroff? > To: Aharon Robbins <arnold(a)skeeve.com> > Cc: martinwguy(a)yahoo.it, miros-discuss(a)66h.42h.de, tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > Aharon Robbins dixit: > > >Instead of starting with 27 year old code, you'd be better > >off taking the troff from http://www.swtch.com/plan9port. > > Thanks, that's a nice idea, but from what I experienced, > the portability of recent AT&T/Bell/Lucent/whatever code > is worse than the bugs in old code (eg. I could not get > ksh93 to compile, something in there just dumped core; > but then that's Unix, not Plan 9). ksh93 is a different animal, from a different group, and problems there are not surprising (sadly). On the flip side, they do take bug reports seriously. > >This is a port of many Plan 9 utilities to Unix. The troff there > >(a) has an explicit license that will probably do for the BSD people > > If it's the same licence as for 8c, then no, unfortunately. I don't know. It's worth double checking the current license; it changed sometime in the past year or two. The Plan 9 troff is certainly a descendant of the ditroff you found, for whatever that's worth. Arnold

20 years, 5 months

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Re: [TUHS] licence of ditroff?

by Aharon Robbins

Instead of starting with 27 year old code, you'd be better off taking the troff from http://www.swtch.com/plan9port. This is a port of many Plan 9 utilities to Unix. The troff there (a) has an explicit license that will probably do for the BSD people (b) already knows how to produce PostScript (c) can handle UTF-8 and 16-bit Unicode Arnold > Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 12:39:47 +0000 (UTC) > From: Thorsten Glaser <tg(a)66h.42h.de> > Subject: [TUHS] licence of ditroff? > To: martinwguy(a)yahoo.it > Cc: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org, miros-discuss(a)66h.42h.de > > Hi! > > I would like to know which licence the files at > http://medialab.dyndns.org/~martin/tape/stuff/ditroff/ > are under. > > If it's http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Caldera-license.pdf > that would be nice, if not, is there any way to find > out whose (c) is on the files, and how to contact them? > > Reason: I'm developer of a BSD offspring and already > integrated 4.4BSD-Alpha nroff, neqn, tbl etc. under the > Caldera licence above into our operating system in order > to get rid of the less free, written in C++, GNU groff. > With success. Now I'm lacking postscript output. > > Thanks in advance, > //mirabile > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

20 years, 5 months

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[martin@freaknet.org: Re: [tg@66h.42h.de: [TUHS] licence of ditroff?]]

by asbesto

----- Forwarded message from Martin Guy <martin(a)freaknet.org> ----- From: Martin Guy <martin(a)freaknet.org> To: asbesto <asbesto(a)freaknet.org> Subject: Re: [tg(a)66h.42h.de: [TUHS] licence of ditroff?] Ta! I already dealt with this in november - same person. Is this an old message? The outcome was: it's in the public domain because they published the original sources with no copyright notice at the top... so they are going to create a new free troff from the sources on my tape, more free than groff! Yes! M On Mon, 24 Jan 2005, asbesto wrote: [snip] > ----- Forwarded message from Thorsten Glaser <tg(a)66h.42h.de> ----- > > I would like to know which licence the files at > http://medialab.dyndns.org/~martin/tape/stuff/ditroff/ > are under. [snip] > ----- End forwarded message ----- -- [ asbesto ::: IW9HGS ::: freaknet medialab ::: radio#cybernet ] [ http://freaknet.org/asbesto http://papuasia.org/radiocybernet ] [ I DELETE MSGS > 100K & with ATTACHMENTS, HTML, M$-WORD, SPAM ] [ NON USARE LETTERE ACCENTATE ==== NON MANDARE MESSAGGI IN HTML ]

20 years, 5 months

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original SCCS code?

by Aharon Robbins

Is the original code for SCCS under the Caldera license? In particular, is there a URL where it's available? Or should someone wishing to work with SCCS files use GNU CSSC? Thanks, Arnold

20 years, 5 months

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Question for the List Manager/Owner

by Gregg C Levine

Hello from Gregg C Levine Question: Will the list server drop subscribers, if they have not posted anything to the list? Or are other reasons taken into circumstances? Consider this, for any number of reasons, two of my e-mail addresses for this ISP are subscribed to this list, some time ago a posting arrived at Address #2, but Address #1 didn't receive it. Repeated queries to the list server's management site, didn't provide me with my password, nor did entering what I thought it was when I first subscribed to it, succeed. However my first clew that something was up, happened when it accepted my requests to rejoin it. So when you have the time to look into the matter, can you investigate. FYI, the address in doubt is this one. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi

20 years, 5 months

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UNIX tools updated

by Jose R. Valverde

I just noticed this site by a posting on Groklaw.net: http://heirloom.sourceforge.net/ I don't remember having seen it here before, and I believe it is worth a look. The Heirloom Toolchest is a collection of standard Unix utilities derived from legacy Caldera-released sources and brought up to date to a number of versions (SVID3, SVID4, POSIX, 4BSD) with support for UTF-8 and other enhancements. j -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

20 years, 6 months

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test

by Wm.G.McGrath

test two

20 years, 7 months

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test

by Wm.G.McGrath

This is just a test. [Groan] There may be others. [GROAN] Results will be posted on the bulletin board. b.

20 years, 7 months

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Ultrix from CD on SIMH

by Jose R. Valverde

Has anybody succeeded installing Ultrix v4.4/4.5 for the VAX on SIMH from DEC CD-ROM distribution? I've been trying but when it goes to device detection it always turns up with an empty list. I mean, the install kernel boots, detects the virtual hard disk and the CD-ROM, the install program starts and reaches the installation menu (options for BASIC or ADVANCED) and it's then, when choosing any option that it does not detect any suitable install device. It's been about 10 years since last I installed Ultrix on a VAX and to be true, I can hardly remember all the details involved. It this doesn't work, I'll try to go back to legacy tapes (if I can still find any around). j -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

20 years, 7 months

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Old USENET Source Code available

by Aharon Robbins

Greetings all. A few weeks ago, in a fit of nostalgia, I decided to gather together a personal copy of the various Usenet source groups as still available at places like gatekeeper.dec.com and ftp.uu.net. The result is a collection of six newsgroups, net.sources, and then comp.sources.{games,misc,x,unix,reviewed}. I removed duplicates and fixed a few other archiving goofs as well. The result is about 700M, uncompressed. It just fits on one CD. :-) I have made a tarball available, it's about 145M, if anyone wants it. URLs: http://www.skeeve.com/Usenet.tar.bz2 ftp://ftp.freefriends.org/arnold/upload/Usenet.tar.bz2 Only one compression format; the .gz file is almost 180M. Enjoy, Arnold

20 years, 7 months

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Re: [TUHS] wwb

by Aharon Robbins

I once asked Brian Kernighan about style and diction. His response was rather uncomplimentary; it's net meaning was "don't bother with them". As I recall, wwb was style, diction, maybe one or two other related programs, and the ditroff suite: troff, tbl, eqn, pic, and various macro packages. For the troff stuff, you're better off with groff, anyway. Arnold > From: "Steve Simon" <steve(a)quintile.net> > Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2004 06:44:52 0000 > To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > Hi, > > Anyone know the status of the writers workbench (WWB) > which was a seperate package even in System III days > I think. > > I know about style and diction which was shipped with BSD4.1 > which (again wooly memory) was an early subset of the > whole wwb package. > > I was hoping to compile it up and use it to help me > improve my written English! > > -Steve

20 years, 7 months

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wwb

by Steve Simon

Hi, Anyone know the status of the writers workbench (WWB) which was a seperate package even in System III days I think. I know about style and diction which was shipped with BSD4.1 which (again wooly memory) was an early subset of the whole wwb package. I was hoping to compile it up and use it to help me improve my written English! -Steve

20 years, 8 months

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licence of ditroff?

by Thorsten Glaser

Hi! I would like to know which licence the files at http://medialab.dyndns.org/~martin/tape/stuff/ditroff/ are under. If it's http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/Caldera-license.pdf that would be nice, if not, is there any way to find out whose (c) is on the files, and how to contact them? Reason: I'm developer of a BSD offspring and already integrated 4.4BSD-Alpha nroff, neqn, tbl etc. under the Caldera licence above into our operating system in order to get rid of the less free, written in C++, GNU groff. With success. Now I'm lacking postscript output. Thanks in advance, //mirabile

20 years, 8 months

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Re: [TUHS] TCP/IP implementations

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

"=?ISO-8859-15?Q?Jos=E9?= R. Valverde" <jrvalverde(a)cnb.uam.es> wrote: > While working at the Biomedical Research Institute (Madrid, Spain) I got a > quote from DEC for access to Ultrix source code. As I remember it, it wasn't > that expensive (~1000$ for an academic license) and I mused bout acquiring= > =20 > it for some time. My na=EFvete at the time prevented me from ordering it (t= > hat > and the availability of BSD sources). Ultrix-32 sources can be found on ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG in /pub/UNIX/thirdparty/Ultrix-32/sources available via anonymous FTP. MS

20 years, 8 months

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Re: [TUHS] TCP/IP implementations

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Jose R. Valverde <jr(a)cnb.uam.es> wrote: > But I understood the orioginal post to refer to other Ultrix sources. > Ultrix had a long -and interesting- life after 32V. It was ported to > MIPS machines, By Ultrix-32 I didn't mean AT&T 32V, I just say Ultrix-32 to distinguish it from Ultrix-11. Ultrix-32 was DEC's product for VAX and MIPS. On my FTP site I have pirate sources for Ultrix-32 V2.00 and V4.20. The lalter runs on all VAX models DEC ever supported Ultrix on and on MIPS. MS

20 years, 9 months

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Re: [TUHS] TCP/IP implementations

by patv＠monmouth.com

It's not a question of it being lost, but rather making sure it doesn't become lost. My first order of business is for the product that was the reason for Manalapan's existence -- VAX System V. The Manalapan, NJ site, after two mergers, is still today known as UNX because of it initial charter to port AT&T Unix to VAX. This dates back to the old DEC days where all sites had a 3 character identifier. I guess someone was a private pilot and modeled it after airport designations. Anyway, Manalapan was also frequently used as a hub in a lot of uucp activity -- just look for UNXA in the path. Enough history for today. Pat > On Fri, 01 Oct 2004 06:09:19 -0400 > Pat Villani <patv(a)monmouth.com> wrote: > > Don't know about a TCP/IP stack, but I'm sorry to tell you that Ultrix > > is still proprietary and now owned by hp. > > > > The source is in danger of being lost unless I'm successful over the > > next six months. The Manalapan, NJ site where a great deal of Ultrix > > work was done will be closing soon and employees moved to other location> > > and otherwise. I volunteered to take the old tape archives and transfer> > > the source code to CD-ROM for preservation. I don't know if there are > > any other copies in Nashua, NH, where the remainder of the work was done. > > > > Pat > > > While working at the Biomedical Research Institute (Madrid, Spain) I got a > quote from DEC for access to Ultrix source code. As I remember it, it wasn't > that expensive (~1000$ for an academic license) and I mused bout acquiring> > it for some time. My naïvete at the time prevented me from ordering it (t> hat > and the availability of BSD sources). > > But I'd feel pretty sure that at that price many source licenses must have > been sold. Maybe there are still copies lying around and you can find > someone to send you a copy back. > > Sure, it would be nicer to maintain the whole development log and versions. > > j > -- > These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! > > José R. Valverde > > De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural > --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Monmouth Internet MI-Webmail. http://www.monmouth.com/

20 years, 9 months

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TCP/IP implementations

by Sergey Lapin

Hi, all!!! Are there any old TCP/IP implementations like these to work on V7 or V6, freely accessible in source form? It could be very nice thing to learn from. And possibly offtopic question - if I want ULTRIX (RISC) source license, where should I get it from? (mostly interested in newest source) :) All the best, S.

20 years, 9 months

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re: 6-bit, 7-bit and 9-bit byte UNIXes

by dmr＠plan9.bell-labs.com

Greg Lemis wondered, > On page 182 of K&R 1st edition there's a reference to an > implementation of C on the Honeywell 6000, with 9 bit bytes. There's > no mention of whether it was running UNIX. That one was a C implementation under GCOS. There was another 9-bit one for the PDP-10 (not using Unix). There was a 4x9 bit version of Unix for the Univac 1100 series, which ran Unix as a guest system over the native EXEC OS. The most exotic version was the BBN C-machine, which had 20-bit words, 10-bit bytes. Dennis

20 years, 9 months

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Re: [TUHS] 6-bit, 7-bit and 9-bit byte UNIXes

by Carl Lowenstein

> Subject: Re: [TUHS] 6-bit, 7-bit and 9-bit byte UNIXes > From: Norman Wilson <norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca> > To: tuhs(a)tuhs.org > Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:47:22 -0400 > > The very first UNIX ran on the PDP-7, which had 18-bit words. > > I happen to have the assembly-language source code to parts > of that system. Many programs contain error-handling code > that does something like this: > > lac d1 > sys write; 1f; 1 > jmp somewhere > > 1: 077012 > > ... > > d1: 1 > > Evidently the system thought in words in those days > (the second argument to sys write is presumably a word > count), but the single word written is a strong clue > that 9-bit bytes were used, and that a certain concise > error message that people love to complain about was > there from the beginning (and why not?). ? I would say "the PDP7 computer was word-addressable". In this context, characters seem to have been packed as 9-bit half-words in a big-endian fashion. No 'bytes'. Maybe tomorrow I will be near my DEC literature archives, and see if I can find some clues about PDP7 instructions that might deal with half-words. If it's anything like the PDP8 of similar vintage, there aren't any. Late in its life the PDP8 got a BSW "byte swap" instruction to swap the half-words in the AC register. 6 bits, of course. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst(a)ucsd.edu

20 years, 9 months

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Re: [TUHS] 6-bit, 7-bit and 9-bit byte UNIXes

by Norman Wilson

The very first UNIX ran on the PDP-7, which had 18-bit words. I happen to have the assembly-language source code to parts of that system. Many programs contain error-handling code that does something like this: lac d1 sys write; 1f; 1 jmp somewhere 1: 077012 ... d1: 1 Evidently the system thought in words in those days (the second argument to sys write is presumably a word count), but the single word written is a strong clue that 9-bit bytes were used, and that a certain concise error message that people love to complain about was there from the beginning (and why not?). Norman Wilson Toronto ON

20 years, 9 months

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6-bit, 7-bit and 9-bit byte UNIXes

by Natalia Portillo

Hi! Was there any UNIX with 6-bit wide, 7-bit wide or 9-bit wide bytes or all UNIXes are 8-bit wide bytes? Regards

20 years, 9 months

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Re: [TUHS] 6-bit, 7-bit and 9-bit byte UNIXes

by James Petts

Natalia I don't know of any non-8-bit Unix systems, but Multics, on the GE645 at least, had a 36-bit word. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multics James ----- Original Message ----- From: "Natalia Portillo" <iosglpgc(a)teleline.es> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2004 20:07:46 +0100 To: <tuhs(a)tuhs.org> Subject: [TUHS] 6-bit, 7-bit and 9-bit byte UNIXes > Hi! > > Was there any UNIX with 6-bit wide, 7-bit wide or 9-bit wide bytes or all > UNIXes are 8-bit wide bytes? > > Regards > > _______________________________________________ > TUHS mailing list > TUHS(a)minnie.tuhs.org > http://minnie.tuhs.org/mailman/listinfo/tuhs

20 years, 9 months

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Re: [TUHS] WEBSTER

by macbiesz＠optonline.net

> I have a copy of the WEBSTER server and client port to UNIX by [...] By the way, you can get the original TOPS-20 source code (dictionary/orig_src.tar), as well as more documentation and history from this site: http://lost-contact.mit.edu/afs/net/project/afs32/ops/user/jweiss/webster/s… There's also a working Motif interface to the client (the original xwebster used HP widgets): http://www.scn.rain.com/pub/text/xwebster.motif.tar.Z

20 years, 10 months

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WEBSTER

by Kenneth Stailey

Hi, I have a copy of the WEBSTER server and client port to UNIX by * David A. Curry * Purdue University * Engineering Computer Network * April, 1986 I see in the doc directory a very TOPS-20-ish docuement webster.hlp which describes the way to invoke the client: @WEBSTER word-to-define I'm assuming the @ is the TOPS-20 prompt. It also says you can use If you want to look up more than one word, just do @WEBSTER<return> and you will be prompted with Word: Type the word, or hit <return> to exit. But if the @ prompt wasn't enough evidence of TOPS-20 you also get: <escape> and "?" are used the same way in Webster as in most programs. <escape> tries to complete what you have typed so far, and "?" lists those words that match your partial word. Which is pure TOPS-20 "COMND JSYS". See this page for what "COMND JSYS" is: http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/decuslib20-01/01/decus/20-0002/comnd.doc.ht… There is some cryptic mentioning about EBCDIC conversion as if the dictionary data went from ASCII to EBCDIC and back to ASCII causing some degradation. ebcdictp.ememo talks about the format of the EBCDIC tape (not that I have one) and errors.ememo says: 2) Pronunciation records. Three classes of errors occur here. During the translation to EBCDIC occurances of the glyphs *( and )* in the pronunciation records were treated in the same way as in other records, that is encoded as <( and >) (representing left and right braces), rather than left as is. Thus a schwa precceding or following an optional phoneme was lost. I just blew a few minutes looking it over today and ported it to FreeBSD/AMD64 catching a char word[BUFSIZ]; isnumber(word) bug and some other minor things. Does anyone else have this treasure running? I like it better than dict for etymologies.

20 years, 10 months

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WEBSTER

by Kenneth Stailey

Hi, I have a copy of the WEBSTER server and client port to UNIX by * David A. Curry * Purdue University * Engineering Computer Network * April, 1986 I see in the doc directory a very TOPS-20-ish docuement webster.hlp which describes the way to invoke the client: @WEBSTER word-to-define I'm assuming the @ is the TOPS-20 prompt. It also says you can use If you want to look up more than one word, just do @WEBSTER<return> and you will be prompted with Word: Type the word, or hit <return> to exit. But if the @ prompt wasn't enough evidence of TOPS-20 you also get: <escape> and "?" are used the same way in Webster as in most programs. <escape> tries to complete what you have typed so far, and "?" lists those words that match your partial word. Which is pure TOPS-20 "COMND JSYS". See this page for what "COMND JSYS" is: http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/decuslib20-01/01/decus/20-0002/comnd.doc.ht… There is some cryptic mentioning about EBCDIC conversion as if the dictionary data went from ASCII to EBCDIC and back to ASCII causing some degradation. ebcdictp.ememo talks about the format of the EBCDIC tape (not that I have one) and errors.ememo says: 2) Pronunciation records. Three classes of errors occur here. During the translation to EBCDIC occurances of the glyphs *( and )* in the pronunciation records were treated in the same way as in other records, that is encoded as <( and >) (representing left and right braces), rather than left as is. Thus a schwa precceding or following an optional phoneme was lost. I just blew a few minutes looking it over today and ported it to FreeBSD/AMD64 catching a char word[BUFSIZ]; isnumber(word) bug and some other minor things. Does anyone else have this treasure running? I like it better than dict for etymologies.

20 years, 10 months

1
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Sprite in mips64emul

by Anders Gavare

Hi TUHS list, In May, Maciek Bieszczad wrote this to the mailing list (http://minnie.tuhs.org/pipermail/tuhs/2004-May/001022.html) > It's possible that Sprite could run on the mips64emul DECstation > emulator (Ultrix runs well enough to start DECwindows): > > http://www.mdstud.chalmers.se/~md1gavan/mips64emul/index.html The emulator didn't actually support running Sprite in May, but nowadays it does. Read the following URL for more info: http://www.mdstud.chalmers.se/~md1gavan/mips64emul/current-doc/index.html#s… Anders

20 years, 10 months

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[pups] installing begemot etc

by robinb＠ruffnready.co.uk

Ok Guys, I humbly apologise for not working this out from day one :-) The problem was that I'd mounted the device after fstab from the desktop and SuSE in this configuration appears to prevent shell scripts from being fired off. If I mount everything in fstab at boot time then it all works. Don't know whether this is a general SuSE thing or whether it is just a "feature" of the version that I'm running (8.2). Well, you live and learn don't you :-) Chears and thanks for all of the advice, through which I learn't stuff so it wasn't all that bad. Robin

20 years, 10 months

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Re: [pups] Installing begemot

by Carl Lowenstein

> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 18:49:11 +0100 > To: "Greg 'groggy' Lehey" <grog(a)lemis.com> > From: Robin Birch <robinb(a)ruffnready.co.uk> > Subject: Re: [pups] Installing begemot > I have a different problem as well. There is something broken in the > configuration of this computer!!!!! If I execute a shell file by going > /bin/sh filename then it works ok but if I try running a shell script > with #!/bin/sh in the first line I get a bad permission error. This is > preventing me from running make scripts and all sorts of things. Any > ideas? Yes. See the following transcript of a session. I created a small script named "bad" which just does "date" to show that it worked. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - iota: try 1107$ ls -l bad -rwxrwxr-x 1 cdl cdl 16 Aug 12 15:56 bad* iota: try 1108$ /bin/sh bad Thu Aug 12 15:57:37 PDT 2004 iota: try 1109$ ./bad : bad interpreter: No such file or directory iota: try 1110$ cat bad #!/bin/sh date iota: try 1111$ od -c bad 0000000 # ! / b i n / s h \r \n d a t e \n 0000020 iota: try 1112$ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Note that there is a '\r' character at the end of the #! line. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst(a)ucsd.edu

20 years, 10 months

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Re: [pups] Installing begemot

by Robin Birch

In message <411BD929.4080009(a)sun.com>, Chris Drake <Chris.Drake(a)sun.com> writes >> The most curious one is a "bad interpreter" one. This is what I get >>along with the permissions moan. But curiously if I run it sh >>filename then all works. >> It is as though there is some global shell permissions set up that >>is munged. > >Hoo, you've got a weirdo, all right. Darn, I was hoping it was trivial. > >Bad interpreter: sounds like the first line where you select "the shell" >is munched somehow. Officially, you can select any interpreter you want - >but you gotta get the name right. :) > >More thoughts: > - any problems with the pathname? Is it /bin/sh and nothing else? > - check perms on /, /bin, and /bin/sh just in case something got > zapped > - what's your normal shell? How about it you change /bin/sh to > the thing you run normally? > - does anything follow the "sh" on the line? Like, perchance any > strange nonprintable chars that might be interpreted as a part > of the name or as a parameter to the shell? > - try #!/bin/sh -x to see if you get any output from the script > as it's run > - do other scripts like one-liners work OK? Ie, > #!/bin/sh > echo hello world > - any other messages? > >Just saw Warren's email, and he has a few good ones as well - like, what are >you running on? :) > > - Chris > Hi Chris, See my reply to Warren. I'll try this all tomorrow, the system is in work. Cheers Robin -- Robin Birch

20 years, 10 months

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[pups] Installing begemot

by Robin Birch

Hi All, Well I know it's been quiet for ages on this but hopefully someone is listening. I've just started to put P11 on a new Linux box and am having problems building begemot. It keeps blowing out when compiling panic. Is there a more recent version or are there some obvious patches I can do. Regards Robin -- Robin Birch

20 years, 10 months

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Emulators

by Sergey Lapin

Hi all!!! While educating people some unix stuff (at time, spare from work as admin), I have a need for making some simple UNIX-like environment for people to try to type some simple commands. Now I need to make it possible to do it remotely. Are there any emulators, that are capable to run V5/6/7 or (better) 4.2BSD, and accessible by telnet or something like that? Additional thing I need is vi, any emulator that is capable of running vi could make me happy!!! Emulation is needed because of unlimited virtualization possibility, unlimited variation of configurations, and, of course, zero time for recover after root errors. simh runs fast 60 instances on P233. But now I need vi :( Thanks a lot! S.

20 years, 10 months

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Re: [pups] Installing begemot

by Robin Birch

In message <411BBDD3.3050400(a)sun.com>, Chris Drake <chris.drake(a)sun.com> writes >I'd be interested in seeing your results and final analysis for begemot. >I tried (briefly) getting it to run and gave up. Post 'em! > >> I have a different problem as well. There is something broken in the >>configuration of this computer!!!!! If I execute a shell file by >>going /bin/sh filename then it works ok but if I try running a shell >>script with #!/bin/sh in the first line I get a bad permission error. > >Starting with the simplest possibility -- if you run "sh filename", all >you need are read permissions on the file. If you run "filename" with the >#!/bin/sh in the first line, the filename itself needs to have execute >permissions enabled. > >Try chmod a+x filename and see if that helps. > >If that's not the issue, then more detail on the error message would be >good. There are tons of different messages and if you don't get the exact >right one when you're trying to debug, you can go down lots of wild rat >holes... > > - Chris > Hi Chris, The most curious one is a "bad interpreter" one. This is what I get along with the permissions moan. But curiously if I run it sh filename then all works. It is as though there is some global shell permissions set up that is munged. Robin -- Robin Birch

20 years, 10 months

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Re: [pups] Installing begemot

by Robin Birch

In message <7AD18F04B62B7440BE22E190A3F772140F6047(a)mwsrv04.microwalt.nl>, Fred N. van Kempen <Fred.van.Kempen(a)microwalt.nl> writes >> I have a different problem as well. There is something broken in the >> configuration of this computer!!!!! If I execute a shell >> file by going >> /bin/sh filename then it works ok but if I try running a shell script >> with #!/bin/sh in the first line I get a bad permission >> error. This is >> preventing me from running make scripts and all sorts of things. Any >> ideas? >Make sure the scripts have mode 0755 (or 0555, or whatever, as >long as you have both read AND execute perm on the file... > >--f Done that. What happens is that sometimes I get a permissions complaint but sometimes I get a "bad interpreter" message. If I execute the shell with the file name as a parameter then it all works. I'm stumped. Robin -- Robin Birch

20 years, 10 months

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simh+Quasijarus success

by Sergey Lapin

Hi, all!!! Still trying to implement multi-user unix-learning environment. So, I run simh with Quasijarus, when I telnet to port, that is redirected from serial, it automatically picks up unused line, that is fine, and eleminates a need for reconfiguration. But there is something interesting: I want to implement possibility to allow outgoing connections from emulated VAX. As I understand, 4.3BSD supports SLIP protocol. And I can get SLIP working through emulated serial line. So, the problem is: 1. How it was used to setup SLIP lines in 4.3BSD? :) 2. The other end - will slirp package work in such case? All the best, and thanks for all help, S.

20 years, 10 months

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V7 and TCP/IP

by Sergey Lapin

Hi, all!!! Just lazy interest: Was there some TCP/IP implementations for V7, that could be found now? All the best, S.

20 years, 10 months

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dmr article on slashdot

by Kenneth Stailey

http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/25/2311235&tid=130&tid=156

20 years, 11 months

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Lions' V6 source code

by Maciek Bieszczad

Hi, What version, exactly, of 6th Edition source code is contained in the Lions' commentary booklets? I took a look at the version available for download at [http://v6.cuzuco.com/v6.pdf] but it does not seem to match the source code in the TUHS archives. If the source code was in fact modified by Lions, are there any machine-readable versions available? Regards, Maciek.

20 years, 11 months

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Re: [TUHS] Lions' V6 source code

by Brian S Walden

This is good. You can also get the straight text of the source without the line numbers by just removing the .html suffix of the the file (e.g try http://www.tom-yam.or.jp/2238/src/lp.c) I cannot read Japanese so I don't know if it says how it was produced or it's origin. But I can tell that it is not a derivative of the PDF I produced. -B > Well, I found a Japanese page that seems to have the Lions-formatted V6 code available in HTML format, just in case anyone is interested: > > http://www.tom-yam.or.jp/2238/src/ > > Maciek.

20 years, 11 months

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re: media: Unix's Founding Fathers

by dmr＠plan9.bell-labs.com

At this instant, there is an accessible link at http://www.economist.com/printedition/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=2724348 though it has some popups. A very nice story indeed. I talked to the author (Konstantin Kakaes) for a couple of hours in March. He really did want to know mostly about the kind of things the article talks about, and though the PR guy had probably told him that I wouldn't get into things like SCO, in fact that wasn't what he was interested in. Dennis

21 years

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media: Unix's Founding Fathers

by Corey

Good article in the June 10th issue of the Economist that may be of interest to TUHS members (I would have caught it sooner, but I'm a little behind in my reading). Unix's founding fathers Jun 10th 2004 From The Economist print edition Dennis Ritchie invented C and was one of the key members of the team behind Unix - two developments that underpin much modern software http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id=S%27%2980%2EQQ7%27%23%40… Subscription or "pay-per-view" required. I'd share the full article, but I am afraid of their lawyers. ---corey

21 years

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Re: History of "sno" Snobol interpreter (V4, Sys V?)

by dmr＠plan9.bell-labs.com

Shoppa wondered, Can anyone comment about the history of the "sno" Snobol interpreter that seems to exist in V4 (man page in the archives gives 2/7/93 as the date) and some later Unix versions (Sys V, V6, etc.)? In the TUHS archives we have the V6 sources but they are remarkably comment- free. Was "sno" ever part of the build chain of any interesting utilities etc? Not that I know of; I think writing it was just a quick entertainment for Ken. The "application" that has survived is a 1-page program that solves the Soma (or Instant Insanity) puzzle. Dennis

21 years

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History of "sno" Snobol interpreter (V4, Sys V?)

by shoppa＠trailing-edge.com

Can anyone comment about the history of the "sno" Snobol interpreter that seems to exist in V4 (man page in the archives gives 2/7/93 as the date) and some later Unix versions (Sys V, V6, etc.)? In the TUHS archives we have the V6 sources but they are remarkably comment- free. Was "sno" ever part of the build chain of any interesting utilities etc? I'm just generally curious about awk predecessors, if anyone wants to chime in with their favorite pre-awk string processing tools. Tim.

21 years

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Re: [TUHS] Lions' V6 source code

by Wolfgang Helbig

Hi >If the source code was in fact modified by Lions, are there any machine-readable versions available? The source is not modified by Lions, aside some layout and commentary changes. You can find it at http://www.tuhs.org/Archive/PDP-11/Distributions/research/Ken_Wellsch_v6/ By the way, the V6 documentation can be viewed at http://www.ba-stuttgart.de/~helbig/os/v6/doc/index.html Have fun, Wolfgang

21 years

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386BSD & NetBSD 0.8

by Jason Stevens

Hi, I have one question about 386BSD & NetBSD 0.8... If I'm right the reason that they were 'pulled' was because of infringing AT&T code. However didn't you need a 32v license to get access to 4.X BSD? So in that case since 32v is now public wouldn't that allow these early self hosting BSD's to be 'free' again??? Just wondering... Jason

21 years

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Multiple system call sets

by dayton＠brooklyn.cuny.edu

Folks, I am interested in the use of multiple system call sets in Unix systems. I recollect that Pyramid Technology machines in the 80's allowed users and/or processes to select whether to use BSD or SYSV system call semantics. Also, FreeBSD supports Linux system calls and SYSV in emulation. Does anyone know a good location (book, article, website) that discusses this. thanks dayton Dayton Clark CIS Department dayton(a)brooklyn.cuny.edu Brooklyn College/CUNY 718.951.4811 Brooklyn, New York 11210 718.951.4842 (fax)

21 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] Sprite

by Aharon Robbins

> There where several ports: Sun3, Sun4 / SPARC, DECstation, SPUR, Sequent > Symmetry at least. Even mixed architecture clusters where supported. See > http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/projects/sprite/retrospective.html Wasn't the Symmetry a 386 based system? Could Sprite be "revived" for the modern PC? Just wondering ... Arnold

21 years, 1 month

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RE: [TUHS] Sprite

by Aharon Robbins

I think you're confused. The DECstation was made by DEC, but used a MIPS processor, not a VAX. SIMH won't be able to do anything with it, although there are likely other MIPS simulators out there to be found. Arnold > From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net> > To: <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org> > Subject: RE: [TUHS] Sprite > Date: Sun, 30 May 2004 18:16:33 -0400 > > Hello from Gregg C Levine > Okay, now this begs the question: Can the VAX Station boot code which > is targeted to that specific system, be rewritten to accommodate the > VAX processor that SIMH emulates? I am not a good C programmer, just a > whatever comes before that. I can only offer these suggestions, and > ask these questions. > > For that matter, do any of us have any of the SUN hardware that I do > know Sprite ran on? Or that VAX Station? For me, its no to all three. > ------------------- > Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net

21 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] Sprite

by Carl Lowenstein

> Date: Wed, 26 May 2004 07:19:19 -0500 > From: Cornelius Keck <cornelius(a)mail.keck.cx> > To: Randy Belk <rbelk(a)onlybsd.com> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Sprite > Cc: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > > I looked at the Berkeley repository last night, and did not > see some files required to run Sprite directly from disk -- > for instance, the Sparc bootimage (sun4.bt or so) seems to > be missing, or I'm overlooking it, in my coffein-deprived > state of mind. > > Come to think of it.. I do have a few Sparc 2 machines, with > a few improvements (like 128MB RAM, Weitek PowerUp), and would > like to give Sprite a spin. I'm all for adding the Sprite ISO > to the archive! > > - Cornelius Jose' R Valverde wrote: > > > > > > I had the (small) pleasure to run it on a small number of > > > DECstations back in 1994-1995 out of the freshly published > > > WalnuCreek CD and I still long for some of it features. Let me be confused, and note that a DECstation is not a SPARCstation. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst(a)ucsd.edu

21 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] Sprite

by Cornelius Keck

Jose, TNX for parking Sprite on ftp.es.embnet.org! I just ran into a little problem.. looks as if the node is either down, or not reachable (at least from here (== Plano, Texas): $ ping ftp.es.embnet.org PING bakalao.cnb.uam.es (150.244.80.6): 56 data bytes ^C --- bakalao.cnb.uam.es ping statistics --- 9 packets transmitted, 0 packets received, 100% packet loss $ ftp ftp.es.embnet.org [2 minutes later] ^C$ > generated an ISO from the raw CD and am copying now the CD > contents to disk, which are being made available as > > ftp://ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/TUHS/sprite > and > ftp://ftp.es.embnet.org/pub/misc/TUHS/sprite.iso > > as the copying is done. Beware, it is ~530MB. This goes for both my machine at home, and here at work. Now, www.es.embnet.org responds fairly fast, so I don't think that it's the wire across the big pond. Any ideas? TNX! Regards, Cornelius

21 years, 1 month

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Sprite

by José R. Valverde

Would it make sense to add Sprite to the Unix Archives? To me, yes, it was enough UNIX like although it wasn't ATT or BSD derived and it had many advanced features. I had the (small) pleasure to run it on a small number of DECstations back in 1994-1995 out of the freshly published WalnuCreek CD and I still long for some of it features. The distribution is still available at http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/projects/sprite/ j -- These opinions are mine and only mine. Hey man, I saw them first! José R. Valverde De nada sirve la Inteligencia Artificial cuando falta la Natural

21 years, 1 month

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Re: TUHS Digest, Vol 12, Issue 2

by Larry McVoy

> From: Albert Cahalan <albert(a)users.sf.net> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] cvsweb for BSD > > One of the big problems is that they move files all over the place as BSD > > developed and CVS doen't work too elegantly with those kind of changes. > > Bitkeeper handles this well. I suspect that Larry McVoy would > at least be mildly interested in giving advice for such > a project. Bitkeeper is SCCS-based. Yes, I'd be interested. Other than the renames I think we can automate most of this. > Bitkeeper also has a superior web interface. You can't beat > standard unified diff format with a tiny bit of color added. Thanks. One day we'll get around to adding sub line highlighting - that would be an improvement. > From: "M. Warner Losh" <imp(a)bsdimp.com> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] cvsweb for BSD > > If you are going to use a proprietary system, you might as well use > perforce, which has better branching and file movement support than > bitkeeper. But I guess I'm a little biased because I like p4 better > than bk. Both biased and incorrect. There are over 10,000 branches of the linux kernel floating around in BitKeeper (we know, we counted them) and we handle file movement much more nicely than perforce does (we have our own concept of an inode, a pathname is a attribute of an inode just like contents are an attribute of the inode - so you can move A to B, I modify A, you pull from me and the changes apply to B in your tree.) You can be as biased as you want, I don't want to turn this into a SCM discussion, but try and be accurate. About the only thing that p4 does that we don't do is centralized locking; we don't need to do that in a distributed/replicated system but people sometimes want it. -- --- Larry McVoy lm at bitmover.com http://www.bitkeeper.com

21 years, 1 month

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Grokline: Tracing the history of Unix IP

by Chris Palmer

Maybe everyone here already knows about this, but I haven't seen anything, so I'm posting it. http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20040524130757328 "We hope with this Grokline project to be able to identify any conceivable legal issues that those wishing to block, slow, hobble or tax GNU/Linux may try to use in future legal assaults on the community. If there are litigation risks, even just from nuisance lawsuits, particularly with respect to patents, we want to find those risks, hopefully before they do, and mitigate or resolve them now. I am personally convinced, as you no doubt are too, that the next wave of attacks on GNU/Linux and the GPL will involve patents." -- http://chris.nodewarrior.org/

21 years, 1 month

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m68k SVR2 on Perq (was: web site detailing Apple's mc68k UNIX, A/UX)

by Eric Riebling

> >Incidentally, the Unisoft m68k port of SVR2 at the core of A/UX was also >ported to the Perq-5 in 1986/1987, to create the Crosfield Studio 9500. > >Perq had just folded, but a core group of ex-Perq employees worked with a >team from the UK company Crosfield Electronics to take the machine (which at >that time existed only as a wire-wrap prototype) through to production. > >I was a member of that team and I have fond memories of sitting in a >basement office in Pittsburgh surrounded by kernel listings (with a very >puzzled look on my face). > >Just a small footnote in Unix history... > >-- >Roger That's strange, I have those very same memories. In fact I was looking for someone who would appreciate this: #ifdef PYTHON Cheers, Eric

21 years, 1 month

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Quasijarus 0c now listed on SIMH Software Kits page

by Kenneth Stailey

http://simh.trailing-edge.com/software.html __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price. http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/

21 years, 1 month

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[pups] E11 and versions and I/O devices

by Gregg C Levine

Hello from Gregg C Levine I've got a bundle of questions regarding E11, and its range of I/O devices. Here goes: 1) Is anyone running the DOS/Windows version with the Display Register device attached to a LPT port? Where did they obtain the LED devices for it? 2) How did they configure its interpretation of the PDP-11 serial devices? 3) Or the network connections? Favorite Ethernet cards as well. And last but not least: 4)Which printer arrangement was used? Serial? Even a parallel solution? To be honest I haven't seen any action on both lists with in the past number of days, so I thought I'd post something new to the PUPS list, and give it something to chew on. ------------------- Gregg C Levine hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net ------------------------------------------------------------ "The Force will be with you...Always." Obi-Wan Kenobi "Use the Force, Luke." Obi-Wan Kenobi

21 years, 1 month

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cvsweb for BSD

by Kenneth Stailey

Hi, I just thought of a neat idea. Put old versions of BSD source code into a CVS archive using "cvs import" and then run a CVSWEB site with that. Possibly converting SCCS to RCS to CVS. I don't know how far back my BSD SCCS goes. Maybe a smaller project to CVS 4.3BSD-tahoe to Quasijarus first. One of the big problems is that they move files all over the place as BSD developed and CVS doen't work too elegantly with those kind of changes. Maybe subversion not CVS but I've yet to do anything with subversion. Does anything like this already exist? Thanks, Ken __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/careermakeover

21 years, 1 month

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Re: [TUHS] cvsweb for BSD

by msokolov＠ivan.Harhan.ORG

Kenneth Stailey <kstailey(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > One of the big problems is that they move files all over the place as BSD > developed and CVS doen't work too elegantly with those kind of changes. Yes, neither SCCS nor RCS nor CVS tracks file moves, and for this single reason an SCCS/RCS/CVS tree is not sufficient by itself to act as a complete BSD history tree. See this page for an idea of what I had to go through: http://ifctfvax.Harhan.ORG/Quasijarus/sccs.html MS

21 years, 1 month

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SVR4-MP "ps -z" and "ps -Z"

by Albert Cahalan

I'm seeking info about the SVR4-MP ps options -z and -Z, as used for mandatory access control. This is so that they can be implemented for Linux. Alternately, are there more-common ways to handle this security data or more-common usage of the -z and -Z options? I could use some example output. All "trusted" high-security systems are of interest.

21 years, 2 months

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Re: [TUHS] Lions book (was: Booting v6)

by Brian S Walden

I <tuhs(a)cuzuco.com> wrote: > I resurrected the Lions' source code for the commentary I made some > 15 years back -- line numbers at all. It had been lost for some time > and it took a bit, but I finally found it on some obsolete media. > In making it I didn't have v6 source so it was reverted from v7. > > See http://v6.cuzuco.com/ Sorry to bother again, but I just noticed that the PostScript versions I uploaded were the portrait mode ones, not landscape. I have put the right ones in now, so if you downloaded them before this message, you'll need to get them again. Both PDFs however were and are correct. -B

21 years, 2 months

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Fw: [TUHS] Re: Lions' book

by Roger Willcocks

On Thursday, April 15, 2004 6:40 AM, Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org> wrote: > >>I will give you all three guesses as to who Leo was. Hint: he lives > >>in Australia. > > On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 09:18:45AM +1000, Peter Jeremy wrote: > >That would rule out John since he no longer lives in Australia. > > True. The person is alive and well and living on the Gold Coast in > Queensland where he works for a small private university. He is > also semi-active in the arena of Unix history. He has a beard. He > regrets never admitting to the copying of the commentary to John > Lions personally, because John would probably have commended the > act. Hmmm, try Googling for /interests "unix history" australia latex/ :-) You wouldn't know, off-hand, whether 'Leo' actually rekeyed the content ? -- Roger

21 years, 2 months

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v6 source

by Bill Cunningham

I have that source tarball for v6. It's very nice. The only trouble is it will not compile that's for sure and I don't have enough experience with assembly to even look at the labels and mnemonics. It's nice to look at and think this once worked. Bill

21 years, 2 months

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Re: Lions' book

by Norman Wilson

I can cite a third edition that existed inside Bell Labs at one point: white covers, with the latter-day AT&T Bell Laboratories name and deathstar logo; AT&T BELL LABORATORIES PROPRIETARY (RESTRICTED) printed across the bottom of every page. The title page also says Use pursuant to G.E.I. 2.2. Instead of `this document may contain information covered by one or more licenses,' there is a paragraph declaring that `This document is restricted to authorized AT&T employees who have a job-related need to know, and holders of a license for the UNIX* Operating System, Level Six, from AT&T Technologies, Inc., subject to the restrictions stated in such license.' And of course the footnote credits the trademark to AT&T Bell Laboratories. The use of the deathstar and the modern company name suggest these were printed post-divestiture, i.e. no earlier than 1984. Andrew Hume came across a few copies of this edition sametime in the late 1980s. I think they came from a load of stuff about to be thrown out by Judy Macor, who used to be the person who handled license paperwork and sent out tapes. For some reason my copy has a paper clip on the page where `You are not expected to understand this' appears. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 2 months

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Re: [TUHS] Booting v6

by Aharon Robbins

> > I have no doubt that the commentary was produced with the V6 nroff. > > It has the look of machine-formatted text about it, although it was > > clearly printed on a constant-width line printer of the time. > > > > Now, were anyone so truly perverse, they might take the latex and > > convert it into nroff/troff. :-) > > Thus returning to the original form in which it was prepared. There's > an appealing circularity and feeling of having come full circle to > that... Doing so would be a major Waste Of Time. This fact, in combination with the "appealing circularity" just mentioned makes it highly likely that it *will* be done by a Graduate Student somewhere .... :-) Arnold

21 years, 2 months

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Re: Lions' book

by dmr＠plan9.bell-labs.com

Bibliographic notes: It appears that the version of the commentary that appeared on Usenet and has been transformed variously is just the notes. So far as I can tell, it's an accurate rendition of them. There were ~2 original versions of the two-volume work (the source and the commentary). The two versions are-- Those produced at UNSW: the one I have are in red (source) and orange (commentary) covers. There might have been more than one printing of this. The commentary was probably done on some nice terminal like the Diablo daisy-wheel. The source was rendered on a dot-matrix terminal. The second version was done within AT&T/WECo for internal use, and could also be ordered by licensees--perhaps it was even included with a tape. Salus says these were no longer available by 1978. These have pale blue covers. The contents were, I believe, a photocopy of one of the UNSW renditions. The Peer-to-Peer edition (1996) is probably a photocopy of an AT&T version; it contains various labels that doubtless would have been in them. But they could have been stripped in from tape labels or somewhere. Perhaps Berny Goodheart would know about this part of the production process. The UNSW version I have has, on its title page for the source book, a paragraph that says "This document may contain information covered by one or more licenses...." and is noted by Lions as issued in June, 1977. The PtoP version of this page is in a different font, and has a splash label in printer font "This information is proprietary and is the property of Bell Telephone Laboratories, Inc...." It's noted by Lions as of November 1977, and marked "second printing." It would be nice to cajole PtoP into reprinting, although the combination of the TUHS V6 sources and the various renditions of the commentary contain most of the information (though without the heartfelt encomia). Dennis

21 years, 2 months

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Re: [TUHS] Re: Lions' book

by Warren Toomey

On Tue, Apr 13, 2004 at 08:06:43PM -0400, Tim Shoppa wrote: >>> Latex source to the Lions book was posted to alt.folklore.computers >>> circa 1994. I'm guessing that the poster (a "Leo") typed it in by hand. On 2004-Apr-15 07:58:45 +1000, Warren Toomey <wkt(a)tuhs.org> wrote: >>I will give you all three guesses as to who Leo was. Hint: he lives >>in Australia. On Thu, Apr 15, 2004 at 09:18:45AM +1000, Peter Jeremy wrote: >That would rule out John since he no longer lives in Australia. True. The person is alive and well and living on the Gold Coast in Queensland where he works for a small private university. He is also semi-active in the arena of Unix history. He has a beard. He regrets never admitting to the copying of the commentary to John Lions personally, because John would probably have commended the act. Warren

21 years, 2 months

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Re: [TUHS] Lions book (was: Booting v6)

by Brian S Walden

Greg 'groggy' Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> wrote: .... > >>> [Lions book] > >>>> Wow. Time to start Xeroxing it again... :) > >>> > >>> Latex source to the book was posted to alt.folklore.computers circa > >>> 1994. I'm guessing that the poster (a "Leo") typed it in by hand > >>> given the comments that came with the readme. > >> > > Yes, I've found it now and put it up in multiple formats at > http://www.lemis.com/grog/Documentation/Lions/. Enjoy! > > Greg I resurrected the Lions' source code for the commentary I made some 15 years back -- line numbers at all. It had been lost for some time and it took a bit, but I finally found it on some obsolete media. In making it I didn't have v6 source so it was reverted from v7. See http://v6.cuzuco.com/ -B

21 years, 2 months

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Re: [TUHS] Booting v6

by Aharon Robbins

> To: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > From: Mirian Crzig Lennox <list-tuhs(a)cosmic.com> > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Booting v6 > Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:04:48 -0400 > > I'm amused that someone would use LaTeX to reproduce a manuscript of > dot-matrix source listings and roughly-typewritten commentary. I have no doubt that the commentary was produced with the V6 nroff. It has the look of machine-formatted text about it, although it was clearly printed on a constant-width line printer of the time. Now, were anyone so truly perverse, they might take the latex and convert it into nroff/troff. :-) Arnold

21 years, 2 months

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RE: [TUHS] Booting v6

by Carl Lowenstein

> Date: Wed, 7 Apr 2004 11:53:26 +0100 > Thread-Topic: [TUHS] Booting v6 > Thread-Index: AcQcYq8V+wOYWKxXRAqhjHttR6C44gAJhvuw > From: "Wells, Richard" <rwells(a)impaq.co.uk> > To: "Lars Brinkhoff" <lars(a)nocrew.org> > > IMHO it's very good reading / learning. > > I couldn't buy the book when I last tried (about a year ago) - I think > it was out of print.. I did manage to find it all on the web though. > > Richard Wells > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Lars Brinkhoff [mailto:lars@nocrew.org] > Sent: 07 April 2004 06:32 > To: Carl Lowenstein > Cc: tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org > Subject: Re: [TUHS] Booting v6 > > Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> writes: > > > From: "Ian King" <iking(a)windows.microsoft.com> > > > > > > BTW, the Lions book - which documents 6th Ed. very comprehensively - > is > > > available for legal purchase. I have both the published version and > > > (from a set of docs I bought on eBay) an old 'bootleg' photocopy. > > Me too, as they say. I did the bootleg photocopying myself. > > Is it still good reading? It was last time I looked. Today I seem to have misplaced my copy. Just checked AddAll book search, the reprint of the Lions book has become a rare collectable, and is selling for about $100. Oh, well, somebody bid a VT100 up to $355 yesterday. carl

21 years, 2 months

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An Interview with John Lions

by Kenneth Stailey

The PDF when viewed in acroread is rather obnoxious to my system, it turns off controls and the window manager frame and takes over the whole window but love that google cache. http://tinyurl.com/3x4ld __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business $15K Web Design Giveaway http://promotions.yahoo.com/design_giveaway/

21 years, 2 months

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plug for new book - includes V7 code

by Aharon Robbins

Greetings All. Here is an unashamed but brief plug for my new book, "Linux Programming by Example: The Fundamentals": http://www.phptr.com/title/0131429647 It is an introductory linux/unix programming book that uses both V7 code and current GNU code to teach the basic linux/unix programming API. The preface points at the TUHS archive site. I doubt that anyone on this list would really learn anything from it, but it's sorta topical because it uses V7 code. Also, the cover design is really cool. :-) If this is too commercial for anyone, I apologize; I won't post anything else about it to this list. (If you feel the need, please flame me off list. Thanks.) Thanks, Arnold Robbins

21 years, 2 months

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RE: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com

by Aharon Robbins

> > Bell System Technical Journal, July/August 1978 Vol. 57, No. 6., Part 2. > > you can find many of the documents cited in this issue in the > UNIX Programmer's Manual for the Seventh Edition, Volume 2B, > which is included, for example, in the package > http://telexx.mni.fh-giessen.de/PDP11-UNIX/unix-v7-3.tar.gz The manual can also be gotten online, in postscript and PDF and troff from http://plan9.bell-labs.com/7thEdMan. Arnold

21 years, 2 months

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RE: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com

by Roger Willcocks

> Hello from Gregg C Levine > Um this fellow, Ken Thompson. According to my copy of the book on the > C programming language, only Brian Kernighan, and David Ritchie, are > mentioned. Ken Thompson, is only mentioned as being a partner in the > creation of UNIX, I think he was a co-author in the book mentioned in > titles pages, describing the UNIX programming environment. > And yes, the rest of the article did look okay, around that. ...um... see http://www.bell-labs.com/news/1999/april/28/1.html: "Ritchie and Thompson Receive National Medal of Technology from President Clinton" -- Roger

21 years, 2 months

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RE: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com

by Carl Lowenstein

> From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net> > To: "'Kenneth Stailey'" <kstailey(a)yahoo.com>, <tuhs(a)tuhs.org> > Subject: RE: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com > Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:51:11 -0400 > > Hello from Gregg C Levine > An interesting discourse on the subject of the gentleman's books. I > haven't found them, as yet. However, I did find one discrepancy in the > article. I suppose Dennis Ritchie will comment eventually, but, here > goes, his name, and Brian Kernighan are mentioned on my copy of the > book on the C programming language. The only time I've seen the other > fellow's name mentioned was in regards to another book on UNIX. By "the other fellow" do you mean Ken Thompson? If so, you are far behind in your knowledge of Unix history. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst(a)ucsd.edu

21 years, 2 months

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RE: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com

by Norman Wilson

Hello from Gregg C Levine Um this fellow, Ken Thompson. According to my copy of the book on the C programming language, only Brian Kernighan, and David Ritchie, are mentioned. Ken Thompson, is only mentioned as being a partner in the creation of UNIX, I think he was a co-author in the book mentioned in titles pages, describing the UNIX programming environment. Ken's name is on a number of interesting papers from the early days of UNIX, including the original one in CACM, but so far as I can remember he was never the official author or co-author of a UNIX book. You may be thinking of `The UNIX Programming Environment,' by Kernighan and Pike. I suppose those who don't know both Ken Thompson and Rob Pike might confuse them, especially since (I think) they both reside in the Bay Area now. It may help to know that Rob's nose comes nearer to a sharp point, and that Ken is a licensed pilot. They are certainly different people; I have seen them in the same room many times. Norman Wilson Toronto ON

21 years, 2 months

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"Lions' Commentary on UNIX 6th Edition, with Source"

by J.D.

To all concerned, I decided to find out if the book were still available. Per Dan Doernberg at Peer-To-Peer Communications: >The "Lions' book" is temporarily out of stock; we expect to >have it available in approximately 2-3 months. > >Background--- Peer-to-Peer Communications is the original >publisher of "Lions' Commentary on Unix", but we sold the book >to Annabooks/RTC Group in 1999. RTC decided not to reprint it >when they ran out of stock, so we took the publishing rights >back and are now working to make reprint arrangements. > > >Sincerely, > > >Customer Service >Peer-to-Peer Communications Inc. >service(a)peer-to-peer.com Thank you, James Falknor

21 years, 2 months

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RE: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com

by Carl Lowenstein

> From: "Gregg C Levine" <hansolofalcon(a)worldnet.att.net> > To: "'Norman Wilson'" <norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca>, <tuhs(a)tuhs.org> > Subject: RE: [TUHS] Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com > Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 20:19:56 -0400 > > Hello (again) from Gregg C Levine > I believe your right. And I am willing to concede the points regarding > the two gentlemen in question. However, all of the documents I have > seen within the past ten years regarding the birth, and history of > UNIX, all have mentioned both Brian Kernighan, and David Ritchie are > mentioned. Complete with the appropriately selected story as well. > > I suspect however, that in that early paper, Ken Thompson is indeed > mentioned, however the web page in question does not go into enough > detail, as it should. > > And regarding the book, your right. I've got my copy of the C book > across the room, and normally don't refer to it unless necessary. You know, Unix is not 100% identical to C. Before continuing this line of discussion, you really should find a copy of Bell System Technical Journal, July/August 1978 Vol. 57, No. 6., Part 2 where Ritchie and Thomson describe the design of Unix. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst(a)ucsd.edu

21 years, 2 months

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Re: Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com

by dmr＠plan9.bell-labs.com

A quick guide; but it doesn't distinguish Pike. He's probably the slimmest and shortest, and remains the least bearded the last time I saw him. From: dmr(a)alice.att.com (Dennis Ritchie) Subject: re: UNIX Message-ID: <11613(a)alice.att.com> Date: 14 Nov 90 05:53:03 GMT Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories, Murray Hill NJ I read, > Looks like folks are now beginning to credit the > development of UNIX to Kernighan and Ritchie, but > I thought the principal investigators were > *Thompson* and Ritchie. Did something change? The differences between Kernighan Ritchie Thompson are real but very subtle. We all look alike (middle aged with scruffy graying beards). Note these distinctions: -- Kernighan is slimmest, Ritchie middlest, Thompson heaviest in body build -- Ritchie got contacts a couple of years ago and so is the only current non-glasses wearer -- Thompson wouldn't touch netnews with a pole, Kernighan secretly gets misc.invest and misc.taxes mailed to him, Ritchie reads it more than is good for him and occasionally contributes -- Ritchie is the only one who has met five people who have appeared on David Letterman (Penn, Teller, Rob Pike, Mayor Koch, and the guy who raised the biggest hog in Ohio) -- Kernighan has written ten times as much readable prose as has Ritchie, Ritchie ten times as much as Thompson. It's tempting to say that the reverse proportions hold for code, but in fact Kernighan and Ritchie are more nearly tied and Thompson wipes us both out. Dennis

21 years, 2 months

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Just noticed an article on John Lions on Salon.com

by Kenneth Stailey

http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/1999/11/30/lions/ __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

21 years, 2 months

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what is the progress on porting 32V to x86 platform

by J.D.

To all concerned, I was wondering what progress has been made in porting 32V to the x86 platform. I would like to keep track of it's development. Maybe even dedicate a web site just for 32V/32I on x86. I'm not certain on how to setup a repository, but I'm willing to learn as I go. I have a DSL connection. 3 dedicated IP addresses (1 DNS, 1 mail server, 1 web server). The web server has 80Gb of storage space and is running Slackware Linux 9.1. I currently host my own web site: http://www.peacemax.org on the web server. I would really like to see a free / low cost UNIX or UNIX-like OS for the x86 platform come to fruition without the legal battles that Linux and BSD have had to deal with over the years. Thank you, James Falknor

21 years, 2 months

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RE: [TUHS] Booting v6

by Carl Lowenstein

> Subject: RE: [TUHS] Booting v6 > Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2004 16:04:10 -0700 > Thread-Topic: [TUHS] Booting v6 > thread-index: AcQcKECoV1Z8goZHTHydv0dtlVPxNwAANuHA > From: "Ian King" <iking(a)windows.microsoft.com> > To: "Carl Lowenstein" <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu>, <billc_2(a)charter.net>, > <tuhs(a)minnie.tuhs.org> > > BTW, the Lions book - which documents 6th Ed. very comprehensively - is > available for legal purchase. I have both the published version and > (from a set of docs I bought on eBay) an old 'bootleg' photocopy. Me too, as they say. I did the bootleg photocopying myself. > There was at least one card that would drive a vector display, like the > old Tektronix storage tube devices, but most I/O was terminal based. I > have some old ADM3a terminals that folks often mistake for early iMacs - > they ask me which processor they use. :-) The first 11/20 I used had a Tektronix 4002 Graphics terminal with it. This was a storage tube, vector addressable. But it also had a complete ASCII terminal emulator built in, with diode matrix character generator ROMs. Also the best keyboard I ever used, with magnetically-operated reed switches. The Tek terminal used a specially modified KL11 terminal interface, which did serial communication to the CPU at something like 100k characters/sec. This made the hard-copy TTY-based editor really easy to use, because it could repaint the whole screen in a fraction of a second. carl -- carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego clowenst(a)ucsd.edu

21 years, 2 months

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