Has anyone successfully booted either the System III
(...Distributions/usdl/SysIII/) or Ultrix (...Distritutions/dec/Ultrix*)
tape images? I don't have a real PDP-11 any more, however both the
Begemot P11 and the Supnik emulators produce the following on a
generated boot disk:
#0=unixhptm
ka6 = 1535
aps = 141774
pc = 1476 ps = 30010
trap type 0
ka6 = 1535
aps = 141666
pc = 113444 ps = 30300
trap type 0
panic: trap
The Ultrix images both fail to actually boot from tape, as they
quit after reading the first boot block. Thus I am unable get as
far as being able to generate a disk image for booting.
I'm somewhat confident that my tape image booting and system generation
procedures used with the Supnik emulator are working properly, since I
successfully generate disk systems from both the V7 (Bostic) and
the 2.11BSD boot-tape images.
Any info and interest of others gleefully appreciated :)
-skots
--
Scott G. Akmentins-Taylor InterNet: staylor(a)mrynet.com
MRY Systems staylor(a)mrynet.lv
(Skots Gregorijs Akmentins-Teilors -- just call me "Skots")
----- Labak miris neka sarkans -----
Hi.
I have been given a Bull DSP 2/300 system. The machine is running B.O.S.
version 02.00.12. The machine boots and runs fine and I cal login as Root
and look around the system. The problem I have is that the B.O.S. operating
system is a Unix look-a-like and I can find no-one who actually knows
anything about the box. Most Unix commands work but, being a VMS guy, I
can't run the machine like my Digital MV 2's. Does anyone know anything
about these machines? I particularly want to have a bash at programming the
machine. It appears to have C (This should be fun. I've not touched C for 12
years!)
Also. I have two Digital Micro Vax 2's. The both have hardware problems in
that a) One machine has a system disk which will not come up to speed and b)
The other has a corrupted system_primitives.exe on VMS 5.5-H and so I can't
run either of them! Anyone know where I can get spares which are pre-loaded?
I really would appreciate any help or advice/ pointers etc that anyone can
give.
Rusel Broadway
Senior Systems Analyst
DDI: 01206-25-5745
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>From James Lothian <simul8(a)simul8.demon.co.uk> Sun Oct 17 05:11:03 1999
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Subject: Re: vtserver
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Hmm.. I seem to remember, from when I was thinking about rolling my own
11 OS a few years ago, that the /34 differs from most of the other
mid-range
11s in automatically restoring the CPU registers on a page fault. I
think I
picked this up from the differences table in the /04, /34 & /60 CPU
handbook.
(This was unfortunately no use at all to me, as I've got a /40 not a
/34.)
Of course, that was a while ago and I might be wrong.
James
"Steven M. Schultz" wrote:
>
> Hi -
>
> > From: Wilko Bulte <wilko(a)yedi.iaf.nl>
>
> I will be doing some more research on this when I get home from
> work tonight.
>
> > I once had Ultrix-11 3.1 running on a dual RK05 11/34. What I'd call a
> > very minimal system ;-) But it ran
>
> That is because DEC put the extra effort into supporting non-split I/D
> machines. The "stock" V7 really wanted a 11/70. In fact there was a
> chapter in the back of one of the manuals/books detailing what it took
> to get V7 running on an 11/40 (it was a non-trivial project).
>
> Several things conspire against V7 and later on 11/34 (or 35, 40, 60,
> etc). The two most notable ones are the limited address space,
> everything (drivers, data structures, general kernel code) must fit
> in 56kb instead of 120kb - (8kb reserved for the I/O page) and lack
> of instruction restart on MMU faults.
>
> I'll take a look at the V7 layout later but my memory is that it
> wanted an 11/70.
>
> Steven Schultz
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Sun Oct 17 05:42:14 1999
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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 12:42:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199910161942.MAA18843(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: vtserver
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Hi -
> From: James Lothian <simul8(a)simul8.demon.co.uk>
>
> Hmm.. I seem to remember, from when I was thinking about rolling my own
> 11 OS a few years ago, that the /34 differs from most of the other
> mid-range 11s in automatically restoring the CPU registers on a page fault. I
It's not the automatically restoring that is the problem - the /34, /40
(/60, etc) lack the MMU registers that record by how much the cpu
registers have incremented/decremented at the time an instruction has
faulted. SSR1 and SSR2 located at 0177574 and 0177576 respectively.
From the module which handles the instruction restart (mch_backup.s):
* 11/40 version of backup, for use with no SSR1 and SSR2. Actually SSR1
* usually exists for all processors except the '34 and '40 but always
* reads as zero on those without separate I&D ...
What is a dozen lines of code if those registers exist turns into
over 300 lines and even then there is no guarantee (fortunately the
C compiler does not generate the sequences that can not be handled)
it will work.
What's instruction restart used for? The most common case is growing
the stack. The stack for a process starts out small and then kernel
will automatically extend it downwards IF an instruction faults when
accessing the stack area:
sub $N,sp
mov $xxx, XX(sp)
mov -(r4), X(sp)
for dealing with local variables in a function. The other case
is when calling a function:
mov (r0)+, -(sp)
mov $xxx, -(sp)
jsr pc, function
If the reference to (sp) is made and the instruction faults the
kernel will determine if the current stack needs to be extended. It
will then restart the faulted instruction - but to do that it needs
to know what other registers ('r0', 'r4', etc...) might have been
already changed so that it can back out those changes before
restarting the instruction.
In the case of the 11/44, 70, 73, etc there are MMU registers that
will record the fact that "R0" or "r4" or whatever was changed by
2 or not. On the /34 and /40 that capability does not exist and
the kernel can not _always_ guarantee things will work. MOST of the
time it will but...
Interestingly enough there is a difference between the KDJ-11 (11/73)
family and the other 11s which have the SSR1, and 2. From the
bug report and fix for 2.11BSD (update #150):
"The problem is that the KDJ-11 processes the double word store
of the 'movfi' differently than the 11/44 or 11/70. On other
systems (such as the 11/44) the first word is stored successfully
at 0175000 then the program faults when trying to access 0174776
but SP is left at 0174776 with SSR1 (memory management
status register 1) indicating that 'sp' was decremented by 4. The
kernel adjusts 'sp', grows the stack and restarts the instruction.
The 'movfi' then completes successfully.
On a KDJ-11 cpu the story is different. The fault is generated
as expected BUT 'SP' IS STILL 0175002! The kernel sees that 'sp'
is still within the "valid stack region" and DOES NOT grow the
stack at all. SSR1 indicates that no registers were modified
so the kernel does no adjustment of 'sp'. The instruction is
NOT restarted and a SIGSEGV signal is sent to the program.
The problem appears to be only when doing FP instructions, fixed point
operations do not experience any difficulty. The instruction
"cmp -(sp),-(sp)" for example is handled correctly."
Steven Schultz
sms(a)moe.2bsd.com
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Sun Oct 17 06:07:04 1999
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Date: Sat, 16 Oct 1999 13:07:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199910162007.NAA19063(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: vtserver
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> From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>
> > To: Kirk Davis <kbd(a)ndx.net>
> > Do you know of anyone that has used it on a /34? I've punched in the
> > bootstrap and ran it. It loads the boot file from my Linux system.
> > It appears to call it but it halts somewhere in the 70000-70040 region.
> > Nothing comes up on the console. Looks like the memory is over written
> > with the same values over and over again in this area. Any thoughts?
> >
> Sorry for the delay Kirk. It could be that the V7 bootstrap expects
> split I/D, or a different I/O mapping then what's provided on the /34.
>
> I'll punt this to the PUPS mailing list. I have a suspicion that
> you won't be able to install V7, but you should be able to install V6
> or 2.9BSD instead.
I _think_ I know what the problem is...
While the /34 (and /40, etc) can run a stripped down V7 (the necessary
mch.s code exists for example) the kernels that come with the
distribution are split I&D kernels. /hptmunix, etc are all split I/D
executables. Thus you'll be able to toggle in the bootstrap and
get /boot loaded but then fault when loading and/or trying to execute
the kernel.
As I recall the usual way to get Unix on to a /23, 34,etc was to
have a 11/70 around to do the build on, then stage/create the media
(usually an RL02 or similar) on the 70 and sneakernet the pack over
to the /34.
At least that is how it was done when we shoehorned V7 into an 11/23.
Of course we "cheated" in that we had a fellow around who made the
necessary changes to the assembler/compiler/linker to handle kernel
overlays (preceeded the use of them in 2BSD by several years). Thus
we could run a larger kernel than a pure/stock V7. It was an
"interesting" experience running V7 on an 11/23 (maxed out with 248kb
of memory which was fairly expensive at the time). There was just
enough memory left after the kernel was loaded for a couple user
processes. Thus as the '#' prompt you would run "ls" the shell ('sh')
would get swapped out, the 'ls' would run, and then 'sh' would get
swapped back in. Uh, slowed things down just a _little_ bit :-)
Steven Schultz
sms(a)moe.2bsd.com
Mahlzeit
As Warren Toomey wrote ...
> Sorry for the delay Kirk. It could be that the V7 bootstrap expects
> split I/D, or a different I/O mapping then what's provided on the /34.
I'm 99% sure, that it's V7 which I have running (for lower values
of running, because one drive is dead and the power supply needs
to be replaced) on my 11/34A with 128kB RAM and two RL01. I think
I wanted to install V6, but installed V7 because of the RL01 drivers.
I stripped V7 down, so I only needed one RL01 disk pack (I have only
two.) and transfered the disk image via kermit.
I want to install 2.11BSD on my M70 with 512kB RAM (No, more RAM is
to expensive here. 1MB for over US$500.) and a 120MB ST506-type disk,
but had not much time. I want to avoid the way of the disk image,
because I have no BSD installed for the emulator and don't know,
if the transfere of slices of the disk image would be successfull.
(The RT-11 only handles 32MB "disks".) I think the best way would
be to boot from a 2.11BSD floppy and install it via serial port.
(TU-58 emu? Are there 1.2MB 2.11BSD floppies somewhere?)
Mahlzeit
endergone Zwiebeltuete
--
insanity inside
On Wed, Oct 06, 1999 at 11:19:54PM -0700, Kirk Davis wrote:
> Warren,
> I've been checking out your vtserver program. It's a great idea
> and it's been fun to play with. I'm bringing up a /34 and have been
> collecting parts for it for a few months. I've got it set up with
> a few RL02's on it. Few questions for you:
>
> Do you know of anyone that has used it on a /34? I've punched in the
> bootstrap and ran it. It loads the boot file from my Linux system.
> It appears to call it but it halts somewhere in the 70000-70040 region.
> Nothing comes up on the console. Looks like the memory is over written
> with the same values over and over again in this area. Any thoughts?
>
> I'm working on getting a source license from SCO. I'd love to hack on
> this with you if you are interested in any help.
Sorry for the delay Kirk. It could be that the V7 bootstrap expects
split I/D, or a different I/O mapping then what's provided on the /34.
I'll punt this to the PUPS mailing list. I have a suspicion that
you won't be able to install V7, but you should be able to install V6
or 2.9BSD instead.
Cheers,
Warren
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>From Wilko Bulte <wilko(a)yedi.iaf.nl> Fri Oct 15 03:18:02 1999
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(envelope-from wilko)
From: Wilko Bulte <wilko(a)yedi.iaf.nl>
Message-Id: <199910141718.TAA01066(a)yedi.iaf.nl>
Subject: Re: vtserver
In-Reply-To: <19991014163422.C41213(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> from Warren Toomey at "Oct 14, 1999 4:34:43 pm"
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au (Warren Toomey)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 19:18:02 +0200 (CEST)
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As Warren Toomey wrote ...
> On Wed, Oct 06, 1999 at 11:19:54PM -0700, Kirk Davis wrote:
> > Warren,
> > I've been checking out your vtserver program. It's a great idea
> > and it's been fun to play with. I'm bringing up a /34 and have been
> > collecting parts for it for a few months. I've got it set up with
> > a few RL02's on it. Few questions for you:
> >
> > Do you know of anyone that has used it on a /34? I've punched in the
> > bootstrap and ran it. It loads the boot file from my Linux system.
> > It appears to call it but it halts somewhere in the 70000-70040 region.
> > Nothing comes up on the console. Looks like the memory is over written
> > with the same values over and over again in this area. Any thoughts?
> >
> > I'm working on getting a source license from SCO. I'd love to hack on
> > this with you if you are interested in any help.
>
> Sorry for the delay Kirk. It could be that the V7 bootstrap expects
> split I/D, or a different I/O mapping then what's provided on the /34.
>
> I'll punt this to the PUPS mailing list. I have a suspicion that
> you won't be able to install V7, but you should be able to install V6
> or 2.9BSD instead.
I once had Ultrix-11 3.1 running on a dual RK05 11/34. What I'd call a
very minimal system ;-) But it ran
--
| / o / / _ Arnhem, The Netherlands - Powered by FreeBSD -
|/|/ / / /( (_) Bulte WWW : http://www.tcja.nlhttp://www.freebsd.org
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Fri Oct 15 04:36:52 1999
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Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 11:36:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199910141836.LAA21478(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: wilko(a)yedi.iaf.nl, wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: vtserver
Cc: kbd(a)ndx.net, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
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Hi -
> From: Wilko Bulte <wilko(a)yedi.iaf.nl>
I will be doing some more research on this when I get home from
work tonight.
> I once had Ultrix-11 3.1 running on a dual RK05 11/34. What I'd call a
> very minimal system ;-) But it ran
That is because DEC put the extra effort into supporting non-split I/D
machines. The "stock" V7 really wanted a 11/70. In fact there was a
chapter in the back of one of the manuals/books detailing what it took
to get V7 running on an 11/40 (it was a non-trivial project).
Several things conspire against V7 and later on 11/34 (or 35, 40, 60,
etc). The two most notable ones are the limited address space,
everything (drivers, data structures, general kernel code) must fit
in 56kb instead of 120kb - (8kb reserved for the I/O page) and lack
of instruction restart on MMU faults.
I'll take a look at the V7 layout later but my memory is that it
wanted an 11/70.
Steven Schultz
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Anybody here interested in helping?
Greg
----- Forwarded message from Christoph Kaeder <hh-city(a)lehmanns.de> -----
> Delivered-To: freebsd-questions(a)freebsd.org
> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 23:53:14 +0200
> Organization: Lehmanns Fachbuchhandlung
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [de] (Win95; I)
> To: freebsd-questions(a)FreeBSD.ORG
> X-Loop: FreeBSD.ORG
> Precedence: bulk
>
> Hello.
>
> Lehmanns bookshop in Germany will print a
> Unix-Freeware-Calender in
> postersize and give it away for FREE (300.000 copies /
> 4-colour!).
>
> The calendar will include over 100 remarkable days from the
> History of Unix, Linux, Freeware and Open Source.
>
>
> Would you like to add some remarkable days from the
> FreeBSD-History?
> Release days or ...
>
>
> - calendar-home : http://www.lob.de/cal0
> - first look (JPEG): http://www.lob.de/cal1
> - a detail: http://www.lob.de/cal2
> - form to add your remarkable days: http://www.lob.de/cal3
>
> And if you agree we would like to add the FreeBSD Daemon on
> this calender beside the Tux, TeX-Lion, Perl Camel ...
>
> Do you agree to this and can you send us a Tif or JPEG?
> We need it with 300 dpi, 4-colour, about 1 inch high
>
> Thanks.
> Christoph Kaeder
> --
>
> * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * -
> * -- *
> Lehmanns Fachbuchhandlung fuer Informatik, Medizin und
> Psychologie
> Hermannstrasse 17 / 20095 Hamburg / GERMANY /
> hh-city(a)lehmanns.de
> Telefon 040 - 336384 / Fax 040-338955 / International:
> 0049-40-...
> http://www.lob.de / Mo - Fr von 10 bis 20 und Sa von 10 bis
> 16 Uhr
> * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * - * -
> * -- *
>
>
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majordomo(a)FreeBSD.org
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--
See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers
finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key
In article by Lord Isildur:
> hello,
>
> alas, i do not have an account on the PUPS Archive machine! could i have one?
> i remember vaguely something about requiring pgp-signed stuff, and i dont
> use pgp, and so dont have a public (or any other) key.
> isildur
Here's the policy for the machine holding the PUPS Archive:
+ People with UNIX source licenses can get at least
guest FTP access to the archive, with S/Key as the
authentication mechanism.
+ People with UNIX source licenses, and who either
help to maintain the archive, or who have volunteered
to distribute the archive, can get ssh access to the
machine.
+ No telnet access, no e-mail. The box runs with `reserved
tolerance' from the real system administrators :-)
If you fall into either category, and can prove you have a UNIX source
license, then I can either PGP e-mail you, or fax you, the access
details.
Apologies for the cross-post to the 3 old UNIX-related mailing lists!
Cheers,
Warren
In article by johna(a)babel.apana.org.au:
> Hi Warren,
> I have a set (11 I think) of manuals for the Unisys 5000 / 7000 series
> which I'd be happy to give away. Not sure if they are of historical
> interest (too recent, perhaps) or if it was a landmark computer ...
>
> Anyway, I'd be happy to donate them to the Unix archive if you're
> interested. I'm in Sydney, North Ryde, and would be happy to pass them
> on next time we're in earshot of each other
Actually, your email made me think: if I collect _erverything_ offered to
me, then I _will_ run out of room soon.
So, how about the idea of a register? You tell me what you have & your
contact details. I put up a web page with the stuff, your name, and
your contact details if you are happy.
Then, if people want access to them, they can contact you. Or, if you'd
rather not have your contact details on the web, they can contact me.
And if you feel like getting rid of them, you can email me and I'll see
if anybody wants them.
Let me know what you think. P.S I'm cc'ing this to the PUPS mail list
for similar comments.
Cheers,
Warren
Hi -
> From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au>
> Do you recall the PC-board hack on the sep-ID machines that changed
No, I do not recall seeing a PCB hack (hacking on an 11/70 was
frowned upon ;))
> the MFPI instruction to do something that was expressly prohibited?
But I do know what that 'something' was. In "user" or "supervisor"
mode MPFI functioned as "MFPD" - a user program could not read its own
I(nstruction) space. Only for "kernel" mode did MFPI access the
I space.
> Something about allowing a user program to access something else, for
> some obscure hack or other...
It was aimed at providing "execute only" code - a program could "run"
but not "read" its code space.
This caused problems though if trap handlers (floating point exception
handling comes to mind) needed to retrieve the faulted instruction
for inspection/analysis. Thus in 2BSD there is a system call that
programs can issue to request the KERNEL to do the 'mfpi' for them
and return the value.
Steven Schultz
sms(a)moe.2bsd.com
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>From Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE> Thu Sep 9 19:58:19 1999
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Date: Thu, 9 Sep 1999 11:58:19 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Johnny Billquist <bqt(a)Update.UU.SE>
To: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au>
cc: Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Diff between 11/20 and 11/45?
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On Tue, 7 Sep 1999, Warren Toomey wrote:
> These executables were written for a PDP-11/20. Are there any significant
> USER-MODE differences between the 11/20 and later PDP-11 models? I'm
> thinking missing instructions, different addressing mode behaviour etc.
As far as I can remember, there aren't any huge differences. However, some
stuff behave differently in the 11/20. On the other hand, some stuff
behave differently in just about every implementation...
Condition flags on some instructions specifically. And the 11/20 might
have had some limitations on using the PC which differed as well.
I have a processor handbook for the "modern" -11s, which has a chart with
all differences between different models. I started writing it down, to
place in the PDP-11 FAQ, but haven't come that far yet...
Johnny
Johnny Billquist || "I'm on a bus
|| on a psychedelic trip
email: bqt(a)update.uu.se || Reading murder books
pdp is alive! || tryin' to stay hip" - B. Idol
