(writer bites his tongue to keep from ranting about paying $100 for an
operating system for a computer that cost $12 at a second-hand store...
8^)
So I went back to the junk store yesterday and found a TK25 tape drive,
which appears to work fine with my PDP-11/73. It also uses the same
cartriges as my SCSI tape backup drive... Is there a DOS, Linux, or
windows NT program that I can use to save files to tape so I can load them
on the PDP-11? When I initialize a tape, is the format standard among
other computers, or is it specific to PDP's running RSTS?
Is there any way to make Unix 7 use RD hard drives?
...and most importantly...
Everything for PDP's seems to be distributed on disk images for drives I
don't have. I think I saw something somewhere about being able to mount a
.dsk file as a virtual drive under RT11... Anyone know if this is true?
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Wed Dec 30 07:07:32 1998
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Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 13:07:32 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199812292107.NAA11417(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: rt11 and disk images
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Hi -
> From: "Erin W. Corliss" <erin(a)coffee.corliss.net>
> (writer bites his tongue to keep from ranting about paying $100 for an
> operating system for a computer that cost $12 at a second-hand store... 8^)
If you think $100 for software is worthy of ranting I'd hate to see
what $100k (what it used to cost for UNIX sources) worth of ranting
would sound like :) :) :)
> So I went back to the junk store yesterday and found a TK25 tape drive,
> which appears to work fine with my PDP-11/73. It also uses the same
> cartriges as my SCSI tape backup drive... Is there a DOS, Linux, or
The TK25 (I have one also - worked the last time I checked some time
ago) uses DC600A (the "A" is important) 60mb tapes.
But there the similarity ends.
> windows NT program that I can use to save files to tape so I can load them
> on the PDP-11? When I initialize a tape, is the format standard among
> other computers, or is it specific to PDP's running RSTS?
The TQK25 formats the tape in a 'variable' record mode format that
is (as far as I know) peculiar to DEC (or who ever built the TK25
for them). This makes the TK25 look and feel like a 9-track drive
(record boundaries are preserved) which is nice.
Unfortunately most (all?) QIC drives in the "PC" world end up in a
'fixed record' mode (which loses the concept of record size). So
while you might have a DC600A drive on a Linux system it will, odds are,
only write in fixed record mode which the TQK25 probably won't like.
Have to try it and see what happens.
> Is there any way to make Unix 7 use RD hard drives?
Not easily. MSCP devices weren't around or weren't supported at
the time V7 came out. You'd need a development system running
supported disks first (perhaps the work could be done via an
emulator). Then you could create "boot kits" (and adding RD/RA
support would also entail writing bootblocks, standalone drivers,
updating /boot, in additi0on to the mainline kernel 'ra.c' driver).
2.11BSD supports the RD drives quite nicely - if you've an 11/73
then perhaps using 2.11 instead of V7 might be worth considering.
> ...and most importantly...
>
> Everything for PDP's seems to be distributed on disk images for drives I
> don't have. I think I saw something somewhere about being able to mount a
That's why I (even 6 years ago the older drive types were either
too old or too bulky/powerhungry) bought an Emulex UC08 (MSCP->SCSI)
and started using SCSI peripherals. You should have heard the
ranting - but it was worth in the long haul.
Steven Schultz
sms(a)moe.2bsd.com
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>From Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk> Wed Dec 30 08:32:24 1998
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Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 22:32:24 +0000
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
From: Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Bob Supnik's Emulator.
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Dear All,
I've been struggling with Bob's emulator (version 2.3d). The main
problem appears to be around the TM device driver. I've been creating
boot programs and data on my 11/73 under 2.11 BSD.
To do this I've been using the makesimtape program. This hasn't worked
very well. I've had to make individual files for each of the standalone
utilities as I havn't been able to get the emulator to find files beyond
the first one. For instance if I make a standalone file consisting of
the bootstrap, boot, disklabel, mkfs, restor and inode then I can boot
the processor and load and run disklabel but nothing beyond this.
Using separate bootstraps, boot and <program>, I have labeled and mkfs
an RP04. I then tried restor. Well, I can get restor to load and run
but it doesn't want to understand the dump file written with dd that is
created as part of the generation of a distribution set on the 11/73.
I suspect that there is some form of data conversion that I have to go
through before I can read the files on the emulator.
Has anybody installed 2.11 on the emulator from scratch. If so, can
they offer any advice.
Regards
Robin
PS, the emulator is compiled with gcc on Solaris 2.6 running on a
sparc2. It runs the rt11 and v7 disks available with the simulator with
no worries.
____________________________________________________________________
Robin Birch robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk
M1ASU/2E0ARJ Old computers and radios always welcome
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Dec 30 08:51:34 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199812292251.JAA23598(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Bob Supnik's Emulator.
To: robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk (Robin Birch)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:51:34 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
In-Reply-To: <7OIFxAA4hVi2EwHy(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk> from Robin Birch at "Dec 29, 98 10:32:24 pm"
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In article by Robin Birch:
> Dear All,
> I've been struggling with Bob's emulator (version 2.3d). The main
> problem appears to be around the TM device driver. I've been creating
> boot programs and data on my 11/73 under 2.11 BSD.
>
> To do this I've been using the makesimtape program. This hasn't worked
> very well. I've had to make individual files for each of the standalone
> utilities as I havn't been able to get the emulator to find files beyond
> the first one. For instance if I make a standalone file consisting of
> the bootstrap, boot, disklabel, mkfs, restor and inode then I can boot
> the processor and load and run disklabel but nothing beyond this.
The format of a tape image is described in simh_doc.txt in Appendix 1.3,
at roughly line 2,473 of the file. Perhaps the makesimtape program isn't
making the tape correctly. What arguments are you giving it?
On a silly note, if there is only a single thing on the tape you are trying
to restor, you could always save it without the record structure imposed
by makesimtape, attach it as RL00, and then restor it from /dev/rl00 :-)
Best of luck,
Warren
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>From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> Wed Dec 30 08:48:10 1998
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From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au>
X-Sender: dave@fgh
To: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
cc: Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Converting Sixth Edition man pages
In-Reply-To: <19981229184909.O32696(a)freebie.lemis.com>
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On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:
> In fact, I'm not sure that just viewing them *would* be easier. From
> observation, the markup isn't too different from the -an macros. A
> lot of the macros seem to be the same, just in a different case. But
> there are enough differences that I wouldn't want to tackle it right
> now.
Do you have thee 6th Edition documentation to tell you what the macros
do? I have them somewhere...
--
Dave Horsfall VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: +61 2 9978-7422
Geac Computers P/L (FGH Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia
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Stuff this in the archives somewhere: V6 man macros.
I can't remember where I dug it up, unfortunately.
# To unbundle, sh this file
echo tmac.an6 1>&2
sed 's/.//' >tmac.an6 <<'//GO.SYSIN DD tmac.an6'
-'''\" Pwb Manual Entry Macros - Version 6 (@(#)an6.src 1.6)
-'''\" Nroff/Troff Version @(#)1.6
-.deTH
-.tmwrong version of man entry macros - use -man
-.ab
-..
-.rnbd Bd
-.rndt Dt
-.rnit il
-.nr}I 5n
-.nr}P 0 1
-.de}C
-.ev1
-.po0
-.lt7.5i
-.tl\-\-
-.lt
-.po
-.ev
-..
-.de}E
-.wh-1p }C
-..
-.ift .em }E
-.dei0
-.in\\n(}Iu
-.dt
-..
-.delp
-.tc
-.i0
-.ta\\$2n
-.in\\$1n
-.ti-\\$2n
-..
-.des1
-.sp1v
-.ne2
-..
-.des2
-.ift .sp .5v
-.ifn .sp 1v
-..
-.des3
-.ift .sp .5v
-.ifn .sp 1v
-.ne2
-..
-.de}F
-.ev1
-'ft1
-'ps10
-'sp.5i
-.tl- % -
-'ft
-'ps
-.ev
-'bp
-..
-.deth
-.de}X
-.ev1
-.ift .}C
-'ft1
-'ps10
-'sp.5i
-.tl''THIS MANUAL ENTRY NEEDS TO BE CONVERTED - SEE mancvt(1) and man(7)''
-.tl\\$1\|(\|\\$2\|)PWB/UNIX\| \\$3\\$1\|(\|\\$2\|)
-'ps
-'ft
-'sp.5i
-.ev
-\\..
-.wh-1i }F
-.wh0 }X
-.if\\n+(}P>1 .bp1
-.ft1
-.ft1
-.ps10
-.vs12p
-.ift .po .5i
-.in\\n(}Iu
-.fi
-.dt
-.mc
-.ad
-.ifn .na
-..
-.desh
-.s1
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-.ps8
-.ti0
-\&\\$1
-.ift .ft
-.ps
-.br
-..
-.deit
-.ul
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-.el\&\\$1
-..
-.debd
-.ift .ft 3
-.ifn .ul
-.ie\\nV>1 _\\$1_
-.el\&\\$1
-.ift .ft
-..
-.debn
-.ift .ft 3
-.ifn .ul
-.ie\\nV>1 _\\$1_\t\&\c
-.el\&\\$1\t\&\c
-.ift .ft
-..
-.dedt
-.ifn .ta 8n 16n 24n 32n 40n 48n 56n 64n 72n 80n
-.ift .ta .5i 1i 1.5i 2i 2.5i 3i 3.5i 4i 4.5i 5i 5.5i 6i 6.5i
-..
-'dsv \(bv
-'ds' \(aa
-'ds> \(->
-'dsX \(mu
-'ds_ _
-'ds- \-
-'dsG \(*G
-'dsg \(ga
-'dsp \(*p
-'dsa \(aa
-'dsb \(*b
-'dsr \(rg
-'ds| \|
-'dsu \(*m
-.if\nV=1 \{\
-.po4
-.ll80
-.lt80
-.ev1
-.ll80
-.lt80
-.ev\}
-.if\nV>1 \{\
-.ll82
-.lt82
-.ev1
-.ll82
-.lt82
-.ev
-.pl84
-.rmul\}
-.hy14
-.uf2
//GO.SYSIN DD tmac.an6
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Wed Dec 30 09:03:53 1998
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Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:03:53 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199812292303.PAA12398(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Bob Supnik's Emulator.
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Robin -
Howdy.
> From: Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
> I've been struggling with Bob's emulator (version 2.3d). The main
2.3d? Hmmm, sounds like a little newer one than I've used in the
past (I've updated selected modules so I'm probably running 2.3d
but the directory is still called 2.3b ;))
> problem appears to be around the TM device driver. I've been creating
> boot programs and data on my 11/73 under 2.11 BSD.
I don't think that's the case - but read on and see if my new
theory sounds plausible...
> Using separate bootstraps, boot and <program>, I have labeled and mkfs
> an RP04. I then tried restor. Well, I can get restor to load and run
> but it doesn't want to understand the dump file written with dd that is
> created as part of the generation of a distribution set on the 11/73.
Umm, you can't use a 'dd'd image - you have to use 'makesimtape'
(or a similar utility) to add the record/file/bytecount markers that
the simulator expects to see.
> I suspect that there is some form of data conversion that I have to go
> through before I can read the files on the emulator.
Yes, there is. Not sure why it didn't occur to me earlier when you
mentioned having problems.
I assume you compiled and ran 'makesimtape' on the same system
(Sparc) as the simulator is running.
If so then it sounds to be like there's an endianness bug in
makesimtape. That wouldn't surprise me since all I have are
either little or pdp-11 endian systems and never tested makesimtape
on a big endian machine.
There are ifdefs around what I thought were the appropriate places
for flipping bytes - what you'll need to do is get Bob's description
of the simulated tape format (fairly simply and it's in the docs
somewhere as I recall) and the makesimtape.c source and see where I
"oops"d.
> Has anybody installed 2.11 on the emulator from scratch. If so, can
> they offer any advice.
Yes, I have. But only on little endian systems. The one time (ages
ago) I tried the simulator on a Sparc the program dropped core because
it wasn't bigendian capable. That's been fixed but I've never tried
it again.
Steven
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>From Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk> Wed Dec 30 09:20:18 1998
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To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
From: Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Bob Supnik's Emulator.
In-Reply-To: <199812292303.PAA12398(a)moe.2bsd.com>
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In message <199812292303.PAA12398(a)moe.2bsd.com>, Steven M. Schultz
<sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> writes
>Robin -
> I don't think that's the case - but read on and see if my new
> theory sounds plausible...
>
I think that I've independantly come up with the same answer but by a
different logical root.
>> Using separate bootstraps, boot and <program>, I have labeled and mkfs
>> an RP04. I then tried restor. Well, I can get restor to load and run
>> but it doesn't want to understand the dump file written with dd that is
>> created as part of the generation of a distribution set on the 11/73.
>
> Umm, you can't use a 'dd'd image - you have to use 'makesimtape'
> (or a similar utility) to add the record/file/bytecount markers that
> the simulator expects to see.
>
Now this is what I didn't realise at first. All I thought makesimtape
was doing was packaging up the files, not writing some structure around
them.
>> I suspect that there is some form of data conversion that I have to go
>> through before I can read the files on the emulator.
>
> Yes, there is. Not sure why it didn't occur to me earlier when you
> mentioned having problems.
>
> I assume you compiled and ran 'makesimtape' on the same system
> (Sparc) as the simulator is running.
>
This is the big one, no. I had assumed that as the simulator was
emulating a PDP that it would accept files generated to look like boot
files etc built on a pdp so I'm running makesimtape in the standalone
direcctory of the 11/73. Nieve maybe but at least it was logical :-).
> If so then it sounds to be like there's an endianness bug in
> makesimtape. That wouldn't surprise me since all I have are
> either little or pdp-11 endian systems and never tested makesimtape
> on a big endian machine.
>
What I'll do is build makesimtape on the sun and see what happens then.
> There are ifdefs around what I thought were the appropriate places
> for flipping bytes - what you'll need to do is get Bob's description
> of the simulated tape format (fairly simply and it's in the docs
> somewhere as I recall) and the makesimtape.c source and see where I
> "oops"d.
Back in a mo.
Robin
____________________________________________________________________
Robin Birch robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk
M1ASU/2E0ARJ Old computers and radios always welcome
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Wed Dec 30 09:33:50 1998
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Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:33:50 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
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To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Bob Supnik's Emulator.
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Robin -
> From robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk Tue Dec 29 15:21:08 1998
> > Umm, you can't use a 'dd'd image - you have to use 'makesimtape'
> > (or a similar utility) to add the record/file/bytecount markers that
> Now this is what I didn't realise at first. All I thought makesimtape
> was doing was packaging up the files, not writing some structure around
It's writing simulated bytecounts and simulated file and tape marks ;)
> > I assume you compiled and ran 'makesimtape' on the same system
> >
> This is the big one, no. I had assumed that as the simulator was
Ah, ok - so you're running the makesimtape program on an 11. That
would tend to point the finger at the program not flipping the
'structure' bytes into correct big endian order.
> emulating a PDP that it would accept files generated to look like boot
> files etc built on a pdp so I'm running makesimtape in the standalone
> directory of the 11/73. Nieve maybe but at least it was logical :-).
The "data" is PDP-11 specific, but the "structure" bytes need to be
in a canonical (big endian) form.
I was pretty sure the endianness was ok but I guess not. Another
possibility is that there's an alignment disagreement. The 11 might
be putting something on a 2 byte bound where the Sun expects a 4 byte
alignment.
> > There are ifdefs around what I thought were the appropriate places
> > for flipping bytes - what you'll need to do is get Bob's description
> Back in a mo.
If you find (and fix ;-)) it let me know and I'll integrate the
changes into makesimtape.c in the 2.11 tree (and eventually in to
the PUPS archive).
Steve
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Dec 30 09:43:56 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199812292343.KAA23709(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Converting Sixth Edition man pages
To: grog(a)lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 10:43:56 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <19981229123952.B12346(a)freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Dec 29, 98 12:39:52 pm"
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In article by Greg Lehey:
> I have the Sixth Edition man pages on my machine, but I can't do much
> with them, since they use obsolete macros. Is there any way to
> convert them to the Seventh Edition style?
>
> Greg
Here's a quick hack which is a start. It's a Perl script called fix:
#!/usr/bin/perl
while (<>) {
s/^\.br/.BR/;
if (/^\.bd/) {
if (/\"/) {
s/^\.bd/.B/; print; $_=".br\n";
} else {
s/^\.bd/.B/;
}
}
s/^\.bl/.BL/;
s/^\.it/.I/;
s/^\.sh/.SH/;
s/^\.th/.TH/;
s/^\.s3/.PP/;
s/\\\*/\\/g;
print;
}
I've run the V6 section 1 manuals through it, then nroffed them using
GNU nroff under FreeBSD 2.2.x, and I get only the following error messages:
# for i in *.1
> do perl /tmp/fix $i | nroff -man > /dev/null
> done
<standard input>:428: can't set diversion trap when no current diversion
<standard input>:95: can't set diversion trap when no current diversion
<standard input>:77: can't set diversion trap when no current diversion
<standard input>:40: can't set diversion trap when no current diversion
<standard input>:119: can't set diversion trap when no current diversion
<standard input>:132: normal or special character expected (got a node)
<standard input>:137: a tab character is not allowed in an escape name
<standard input>:83: cannot use a space as a starting delimiter
<standard input>:127: can't set diversion trap when no current diversion
<standard input>:93: can't set diversion trap when no current diversion
<standard input>:75: can't set diversion trap when no current diversion
<standard input>:64: can't set diversion trap when no current diversion
<standard input>:36: can't set diversion trap when no current diversion
<standard input>:154: a tab character is not allowed before an argument
<standard input>:182: a tab character is not allowed before an argument
<standard input>:182: error: end of file while ignoring input lines
<standard input>:95: can't set diversion trap when no current diversion
<standard input>:95: can't set diversion trap when no current diversion
I haven't eyeballed the output from them all, but ls(1), sh(1), db(1)
and roff(1) look ok.
Send in any improvements!!
Warren
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>From Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu> Wed Dec 30 09:58:25 1998
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Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 15:58:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Carl Lowenstein <cdl(a)mpl.ucsd.edu>
Message-Id: <199812292358.PAA16791(a)mpl.ucsd.edu>
To: dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au, grog(a)lemis.com
Subject: Re: Converting Sixth Edition man pages
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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> From owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Tue Dec 29 15:07 PST 1998
> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 09:48:10 +1100 (EST)
> From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au>
> X-Sender: dave@fgh
> To: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
> cc: Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
>
> On Tue, 29 Dec 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:
>
> > In fact, I'm not sure that just viewing them *would* be easier. From
> > observation, the markup isn't too different from the -an macros. A
> > lot of the macros seem to be the same, just in a different case. But
> > there are enough differences that I wouldn't want to tackle it right
> > now.
>
> Do you have thee 6th Edition documentation to tell you what the macros
> do? I have them somewhere...
>
> --
A quick check around some computers that I have on-line shows two sets
of v6 man macros, one for nroff and one for troff. This is on a NeXT
running NeXTstep 3.3. But I suspect that these same macros are
available on anything with a BSD 4.3 flavor.
/usr/lib/tmac/tmac.an6n
/usr/lib/tmac/tmac.an6t
About 200 lines total between them.
With the right macros, [ntg]roff should be able to do everything else.
carl
carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego
clowenstein(a)ucsd.edu
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Wed Dec 30 10:06:30 1998
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Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 16:06:30 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199812300006.QAA12964(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Tape endianness in Bob's simulator
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Hi -
In glancing thru Bob's simulator I spotted this:
* Endian independent binary I/O package
For consistency, all binary data read and written by the simulator
is stored in little endian data order. That is, in a multi-byte
data item, the bytes are written out right to left, low order byte
to high order byte. On a big endian host, data is read and written
from high byte to low byte. Consequently, data written on a little
endian system must be byte reversed to be usable on a big endian
system, and vice versa.
Perhaps this sheds some light on why a Sparc can't read a pdp-11
generated (via 'makesimtape') tape.
I know I've read simulated tape files on an Intel system with no
trouble - so it would appear that the endianness was correct.
Good Luck Robin! ;)
Steven
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Wed Dec 30 10:51:48 1998
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Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 11:21:48 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: rt11 and disk images
References: <199812292107.NAA11417(a)moe.2bsd.com>
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On Tuesday, 29 December 1998 at 13:07:32 -0800, Steven M. Schultz wrote:
> The TQK25 formats the tape in a 'variable' record mode format that
> is (as far as I know) peculiar to DEC (or who ever built the TK25
> for them). This makes the TK25 look and feel like a 9-track drive
> (record boundaries are preserved) which is nice.
>
> Unfortunately most (all?) QIC drives in the "PC" world end up in a
> 'fixed record' mode (which loses the concept of record size). So
> while you might have a DC600A drive on a Linux system it will, odds are,
> only write in fixed record mode which the TQK25 probably won't like.
> Have to try it and see what happens.
I believe the new CAM driver for FreeBSD 3.0 can do variable block
lengths on QIC drives.
Greg
--
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>From Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk> Wed Dec 30 22:28:31 1998
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Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 12:28:31 +0000
To: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
From: Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Tape endianness in Bob's simulator
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In message <199812300006.QAA12964(a)moe.2bsd.com>, Steven M. Schultz
<sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> writes
> I know I've read simulated tape files on an Intel system with no
> trouble - so it would appear that the endianness was correct.
>
> Good Luck Robin! ;)
>
> Steven
Steven,
I now have a makesimtape that creates the bootstrap files correctly. I
have found, I think, one bug and partly rewritten another bit just to
put my mind at rest about a couple of things. I still can't create the
root correctly though.
What I have found:
1) Your endianness is correct, it took me a couple of sample programs
and rewrites to prove it. In doing this I have replaced trl with
another bit of code that does the same thing but is easier to play
around with to change the byte orders.
2) There are two bugs in the use of writev. These are:
2.1) When writing the headers and data you are writing a long to the
file where iovec only supports (I think) an unsigned short.
2.2) When writing the tape marks you are writing an integer as though it
was a long.
Of the two 2.2 is the most significant (I think).
After correcting both of these. By changing zero from an int to a long
and by replacing the writevs with writes for the headers, data and
trailers I have a version of makesimtape that creates a bootstrap file
that works.
I can load and run all of the bootstrap programs as though I was looking
at a real pdp which I couldn't before. This makes me think that I have
probably got makesimtape about right.
Now for the bad bit. I have created a root.dump then run it through
makesimtape with the command file:
/usr/root.dump 2
* 1
and it won't load from restor. I get a succession of "missing address
(header) block" errors but I successfully detect the end of the tape and
restor stops running, as it is supposed to do.
So, am I doing something wrong in creating the root file? or is there
something still wrong with makesimtape?. This is probably a red herring
but the distribution tapes are written with a blocksize of 20 for all of
the data after the bootstraps whilst makesimtape only writes multiples
of 512.
Advice please
Robin
____________________________________________________________________
Robin Birch robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk
M1ASU/2E0ARJ Old computers and radios always welcome
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>From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Thu Dec 31 01:52:58 1998
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Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 07:52:58 -0800 (PST)
From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com>
Message-Id: <199812301552.HAA10714(a)moe.2bsd.com>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Tape endianness in Bob's simulator
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Robin -
> From robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk Wed Dec 30 04:31:15 1998
> What I have found:
>
> 1) Your endianness is correct, it took me a couple of sample programs
Whew - that's a relief.
> 2) There are two bugs in the use of writev. These are:
>
> 2.1) When writing the headers and data you are writing a long to the
> file where iovec only supports (I think) an unsigned short.
iovec can write as much as it wants to. To write a 'long' one
simply stuffs the _address_ of the long variable into iov_base
and "sizeof long" into iov_len. I'm not sure what you mean by
iovec only supporting a short.
> 2.2) When writing the tape marks you are writing an integer as though it
> was a long.
It isn't? Oops.
On some systms (those where "sizeof long == sizeof int") 'zero'
would be a long.
Sigh - I've been contaminated by machines where that assumption is
true.
> Now for the bad bit. I have created a root.dump then run it through
> makesimtape with the command file:
>
> /usr/root.dump 2
> * 1
>
> and it won't load from restor. I get a succession of "missing address
> (header) block" errors but I successfully detect the end of the tape and
> restor stops running, as it is supposed to do.
> So, am I doing something wrong in creating the root file? or is there
Uh, yes ;)
'dump' tapes *must* consist of 10kb records. 'restore' is expecting
10kb (or 20 sector) records and complaining about the shortness of
what it is reading.
> something still wrong with makesimtape?. This is probably a red herring
> but the distribution tapes are written with a blocksize of 20 for all of
> the data after the bootstraps whilst makesimtape only writes multiples
> of 512.
Correct. The bootblock+boot needs to be 512 byte records so the
boot rom can deal with it. The standalone programs are 1kb records
(because that's the filesystem block size and to make the 'seeking'
in the pseudo-stdio routines possible/simple).
All the _data_ files are 10kb records because that's what 'tar' and
'dump' use.
Steven
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>From Michael Kraus <belfry(a)nsw.bigpond.net.au> Thu Dec 31 02:13:57 1998
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Date: Thu, 31 Dec 1998 03:13:57 +1100
From: Michael Kraus <belfry(a)nsw.bigpond.net.au>
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Subject: PDP Free to good home...
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G'day all...
I've got a DEC Pro/350 machine (including Pro OS and manuals, etc), as
well as a serial printer for it.
I've been planning on putting UNIX on it, and tracking down a network
card for it. However, I don't really have enough time or space to do
such.
It is a PDP (unsure if it is a PDP-11 or not... I did find out, but that
was a while ago). I'm pretty sure that you will be able to get it to run
UNIX (v6, I think).
Rather then let it sit useless in my hall, I thought one of you guys (or
girls, as the case may be) may appreciate it more than what I currently
am.
The only cost involved would be the cost of getting yourself here,
picking it up and taking it back home. FYI, I live in Paddington (NSW).
Email me if you are interested.
Michael.
P.s. It is in my posssesion as my father is a doctor and it was in use
for many years in his practice. (Its only recently that they upgraded
as it suited the purpose so well!)
I have the Sixth Edition man pages on my machine, but I can't do much
with them, since they use obsolete macros. Is there any way to
convert them to the Seventh Edition style?
Greg
--
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue Dec 29 18:14:38 1998
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Message-Id: <199812290814.TAA22809(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Converting Sixth Edition man pages
To: grog(a)lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 19:14:38 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
In-Reply-To: <19981229123952.B12346(a)freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Dec 29, 98 12:39:52 pm"
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In article by Greg Lehey:
> I have the Sixth Edition man pages on my machine, but I can't do much
> with them, since they use obsolete macros. Is there any way to
> convert them to the Seventh Edition style?
>
> Greg
My off-the-cuff suggestion is to read the man(7) pages for both V6 and V7,
and write a Perl script to make the changes :-) That's probably the `best'
solution, but would take time.
Do you want to preserve the markup, or just want to view the manpages?
Just viewing them would be easier, of course!
Ciao,
Warren
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Tue Dec 29 18:19:09 1998
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Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1998 18:49:09 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Cc: Unix Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Converting Sixth Edition man pages
References: <19981229123952.B12346(a)freebie.lemis.com> <199812290814.TAA22809(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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On Tuesday, 29 December 1998 at 19:14:38 +1100, Warren Toomey wrote:
> In article by Greg Lehey:
>> I have the Sixth Edition man pages on my machine, but I can't do much
>> with them, since they use obsolete macros. Is there any way to
>> convert them to the Seventh Edition style?
>
> My off-the-cuff suggestion is to read the man(7) pages for both V6 and V7,
> and write a Perl script to make the changes :-) That's probably the `best'
> solution, but would take time.
perl? What's perl? :-) But yes, that was one alternative, one I
hadn't thought worth the trouble.
> Do you want to preserve the markup, or just want to view the manpages?
> Just viewing them would be easier, of course!
In fact, I'm not sure that just viewing them *would* be easier. From
observation, the markup isn't too different from the -an macros. A
lot of the macros seem to be the same, just in a different case. But
there are enough differences that I wouldn't want to tackle it right
now.
Greg
--
See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers
finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key
Dear PUPS/TUHS members,
About three hours ago I have released 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0, the latest release of
4.3BSD-*. This release has the 4.3-Tahoe userland and a kernel that supports
all hardware supported by CSRG's Tahoe and Reno releases, including KA630 and
KA650 MicroVAXen.
You can find 4.3BSD-Quasijarus0 under Distributions/4bsd/43quasi0.vax in the
PUPS archive. It is by far the newest system in the archive, compiled only a
couple of days ago.
I haven't got around to implementing a standalone disk labeling facility yet,
so installing it on a typical MicroVAX with third-party MSCP disks is still a
little bit of a challenge. While working on building this release, I and Tim
Shoppa have come up with a usable solution to this disklabel problem. It
appears in Distributions/4bsd/tips/QTR_disklabel_note. This approach also works
with VAX builds of CSRG's Tahoe and Reno releases (QTR stands for Quasijarus,
Tahoe, and Reno).
Have fun with it!
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET
I know you've all been on the edge of your seats waiting for this, but...
I finally got my PDP-11/73 working, using a wyse terminal instead of my PC
-- for some reason neither of the serial ports were sending on the PC (but
then again, I boughtthe motherboard in an alley in korea three years
ago)... Anyway, it boots up with RSTS/E version 9, which is OK in it's
own little way, I guess, but I'd rather be running Unix on it.
So where can I download the binaries for 2.11BSD?
-- Erin Corliss
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>From Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Sat Dec 26 14:03:36 1998
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Date: Fri, 25 Dec 1998 23:03:36 -0500
From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU
Message-Id: <981225230336.206000db(a)trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Re: 2.11BSD
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>I know you've all been on the edge of your seats waiting for this, but...
>
>I finally got my PDP-11/73 working, using a wyse terminal instead of my PC
>-- for some reason neither of the serial ports were sending on the PC (but
>then again, I boughtthe motherboard in an alley in korea three years
>ago)...
There are at least two different standards for the ribbon-cable-to-D-sub
adapters, and of course it's guaranteed that you'll use the wront type :-).
> Anyway, it boots up with RSTS/E version 9, which is OK in it's
> own little way, I guess, but I'd rather be running Unix on it.
> So where can I download the binaries for 2.11BSD?
Easiest way is for you to tell us what sort of load media you can use and
have someone write an install tape for you. Do you have a TK50 or other tape
drive on the system?
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Sat Dec 26 20:32:47 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199812261032.VAA20488(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: 2.11BSD (but no src license)
To: grog(a)lemis.com (Greg Lehey)
Date: Sat, 26 Dec 1998 21:32:47 +1100 (EST)
Cc: erin(a)coffee.corliss.net
In-Reply-To: <19981226180625.S12346(a)freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Dec 26, 98 06:06:25 pm"
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In article by Greg Lehey:
> On Friday, 25 December 1998 at 23:09:48 -0800, Erin W. Corliss wrote:
> > On Sat, 26 Dec 1998, Greg Lehey wrote:
> >> Do you have an Ancient UNIX license? I don't see you in our list.
> >> You'll need one before we can give you a copy of the software.
> >
> > Nope. I have a licensed copy of RSTS/E I could trade, though... 8^) No,
> > actually, I think I found another source for it, but thanks for the
> > concern.
>
> PUPS is very glad to have been able to have created the possibility of
> legally using these old versions of UNIX. Please don't make things
> difficult by abusing somebody's cooperation. You can get it legally;
> see http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/PUPS/getlicense.html for more details.
>
> Greg
What Greg says is true: we can't give you access to any UNIX source
code unless you have a UNIX source license from SCO. However....
I should ask Dion at SCO if we could distribute binary-only distributions
of 2.x BSD without a license. After all, freely distributable binary-only
distributions for v5, v6, v7 and Venix (System III-ish) exist.
Just a thought, but for now you do need a source license.
Cheers,
Warren
(Sorry for the rather lenghty post)
Hi,
I'd just try to boot my newly aquired PDP11/83 and was planning to install
2.11BSD. But I've run into one (small?) problem. If I just try to boot
from DU0: it says:
Trying DU0
Error 20
Controller Error
And if I boot the install tape from the TK70 drive and run disklabel,
all accesses to the RD53 drive just times out. So I was going to remove
all unwanted QBus boards from the boxes. And that's what I was going to
ask...
Is there something special I have to think about, like there's some slots
that can't be used, some boards must be in a specific slot and so on?
This is the current layout (which is exactly as it was when it was taken
offline, or so I think)
11/83 (173QA-B3, I think this is a normal BA23 enclosure):
(As seen from the back) Also contains one TK70 drive.
____________________________________________
|Dataram 40903 revG | Empty slot | (2mb ram)
---------------------------------------------
| M8637-EH | (2mb ram)
---------------------------------------------
| M8190-AE | (83 CPU)
---------------------------------------------
| M7559 | M7504 | (TK70, DEQNA)
---------------------------------------------
| M8020 | Empty slot | (console?)
---------------------------------------------
| M7957 | (DZV11)
---------------------------------------------
| m3104 | (DHV11)
---------------------------------------------
| M9404 | Empty slot | (1st Qbus conn)
---------------------------------------------
Expansion box (173QA-B3)
(From the back) Also contains one RD53 and one dual floppy.
_____________________________________________
|M9405-YA | Empty slot | (2nd qbus conn)
---------------------------------------------
| m3104 | (DHV11)
---------------------------------------------
| m9047 | m9047 | (grant cont x2)
---------------------------------------------
| m7555 | Empty slot | (RQDX3)
---------------------------------------------
| m7512 | Empty slot | (RQDX1E)
---------------------------------------------
Plus one external disk box with two RD53 drive. (This system only uses one
drive though.)
Now, what I obviously want to keep is:
the two RAM boards, the CPU, the console board, tk70 controller, deqna,
rqdx3.
What I want to loose:
the rest of the serial boards, the rqdx1e board and the floppy drive.
What do I have to do to make this work? I would preferrably want to fit
all those boards in the main CPU enclosure box. Do I have to re-assign any
addresses (or vectors, or what the correct PDP-speak is). Are there any
slots in the enclosure that are a no-no for the dual-sized boards?
Thanks for any input!!
Jorgen Pehrson HP 9000/380 (NetBSD/hp300 1.3)
jp(a)spektr.ludvika.se DECstation 5000/200 (NetBSD/pmax 1.3)
http://spektr.ludvika.se/museum PDP11/83 (2.11BSD) VAX2000 (NetBSD/vax)
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>From Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk> Fri Dec 25 00:10:43 1998
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To: Jorgen Pehrson <jp(a)spektr.ludvika.se>
Cc: PDP11 UNIX Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>
From: Robin Birch <robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: PDP11/83 qbus layout.
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In message <Pine.NEB.4.05.9812232234500.23424-100000(a)spektr.ludvika.se>,
Jorgen Pehrson <jp(a)spektr.ludvika.se> writes
>
>(Sorry for the rather lenghty post)
>
Don't worry about that.
>Hi,
>I'd just try to boot my newly aquired PDP11/83 and was planning to install
>2.11BSD. But I've run into one (small?) problem. If I just try to boot
>from DU0: it says:
>
>Trying DU0
>
>Error 20
>Controller Error
>
>And if I boot the install tape from the TK70 drive and run disklabel,
>all accesses to the RD53 drive just times out. So I was going to remove
>all unwanted QBus boards from the boxes. And that's what I was going to
>ask...
>
A good plan
>
>Is there something special I have to think about, like there's some slots
>that can't be used, some boards must be in a specific slot and so on?
>
There are rules about where boards can go which is an off shoot of the
BG lines and so on.
>This is the current layout (which is exactly as it was when it was taken
>offline, or so I think)
>
>11/83 (173QA-B3, I think this is a normal BA23 enclosure):
>(As seen from the back) Also contains one TK70 drive.
>
> ____________________________________________
>|Dataram 40903 revG | Empty slot | (2mb ram)
>---------------------------------------------
>| M8637-EH | (2mb ram)
>---------------------------------------------
>| M8190-AE | (83 CPU)
>---------------------------------------------
>| M7559 | M7504 | (TK70, DEQNA)
>---------------------------------------------
>| M8020 | Empty slot | (console?)
>---------------------------------------------
>| M7957 | (DZV11)
>---------------------------------------------
>| m3104 | (DHV11)
>---------------------------------------------
>| M9404 | Empty slot | (1st Qbus conn)
>---------------------------------------------
>
>Expansion box (173QA-B3)
>(From the back) Also contains one RD53 and one dual floppy.
>
>_____________________________________________
>|M9405-YA | Empty slot | (2nd qbus conn)
>---------------------------------------------
>| m3104 | (DHV11)
>---------------------------------------------
>| m9047 | m9047 | (grant cont x2)
>---------------------------------------------
>| m7555 | Empty slot | (RQDX3)
>---------------------------------------------
>| m7512 | Empty slot | (RQDX1E)
>---------------------------------------------
>
>Plus one external disk box with two RD53 drive. (This system only uses one
>drive though.)
>
>Now, what I obviously want to keep is:
>the two RAM boards, the CPU, the console board, tk70 controller, deqna,
>rqdx3.
>
What you are calling the console board probably isn't, or if it is then
you want to use the one from the CPU card rather than the M8020 (DPV11 I
think?).
>What I want to loose:
>the rest of the serial boards, the rqdx1e board and the floppy drive.
>
What I suggest is this. Keep the CPU and the mem, the TK controller and
tape, the deqna, the RQDX3 and a serial card (You never know when a
spare serial port is going to be useful - printers, simple comms to a
PC, spare terminal etc etc etc).
A possible layout would be:
|Dataram 40903 revG | Empty slot | (2mb ram)
---------------------------------------------
| M8637-EH | (2mb ram)
---------------------------------------------
| M8190-AE | (83 CPU)
---------------------------------------------
| M7559 | M7504 | (TK70, DEQNA)
---------------------------------------------
| M7957/M3104 | (DZV11) or (DHV11)
---------------------------------------------
| M7555 | Empty slot |
----------------------------------------------
| Empty slot | Empty slot |
---------------------------------------------
| Empty slot | Empty slot |
---------------------------------------------
>What do I have to do to make this work? I would preferrably want to fit
>all those boards in the main CPU enclosure box. Do I have to re-assign any
>addresses (or vectors, or what the correct PDP-speak is). Are there any
>slots in the enclosure that are a no-no for the dual-sized boards?
>
You would have to check with others which of the serial boards is best
supported under 2.11BSD. Steve Schultz is your best point of contact
for this.
Looking at you aoriginal configuration I think that the empty slot by
your M8020 is your problem (unless there is a bus grant card in there)
as there wouldn't be any BG continuity.
This should work and allow you to ditch all of the rest. (saving it for
a rainy day of course :-)).
Regards
Robin
____________________________________________________________________
Robin Birch robin(a)falstaf.demon.co.uk
M1ASU/2E0ARJ Old computers and radios always welcome
Hi -
> From: Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com>
> I have connected a Fujisu M2444 9 track to an Emulex TC13 that is in my
> 11/84. The following is what happens when I try to boot a BSD 2.11 tape
> that I made on my uVax3600/TU81+ (@6250 bpi):
What CSR do you have the TC13 set for?
> Enter device name and unit number then press the RETURN key: MS0
> Trying MS0 (tape starts rolling)
>
> Starting ROM boot
>
> 140276 (tape stops)
> @
The Boot ROM did it's job of reading in the 512 byte boot record and
transferring control to location 0.
The bootblock relocates itself to 48kb which is 0140000.
> cables on the M2444 the LED on the TC13 comes on and the M2444 will not do
> anything.
I don't think the problem is cabling in this case.
If you have another system that you can view the sources with the
file you really need to have in front of you at this time is
/usr/src/sys/pdpstand/mtboot.s
The section of code where the system is halting (with added octal
offsets) is:
0262 bne ctlerr
0264 bit $!1000,hter(csr) / any drive errs except HTER_FCE
0272 beq bumpaddr / no, go bump address
ctlerr:
0274 halt
The label 'ctlerr' is shared but it indicates that a controller
error was encountered out of the 'tmtscom' common logic (shared between
the MT and MS drivers):
tmtscom:
bit $100200,(csr) / error or ready?
beq tmtscom / neither, keep looking
bmi ctlerr / error - go halt
The thing to try is when the system halts looking at the registers
(R0 thru R5) _and_ the tape controller registers (starting at 0172520).
It's also possible to look at the command buffer being presented to
the controller by looking at offset 0460 (0140460). Not sure how useful
that will be though.
It might be possible to single step the processor starting at location
0 as long as R0 and R1 are set up correctly (R0 has the unit number
and R1 the control register address which is 172522 for MS and MT
devices).
Steven
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>From Mike Jenkins <mjenkins(a)carp.gbr.epa.gov> Tue Dec 22 08:17:50 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 16:17:50 -0600 (CST)
From: Mike Jenkins <mjenkins(a)carp.gbr.epa.gov>
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To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
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There is a diagram at The Internet Operating System Counter which is at
http://www.hzo.cubenet.de/ioscount/. Take the "Unix networking" link.
It was published in iX, a German magazine.
Mike
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>From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Tue Dec 22 12:44:15 1998
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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 13:14:15 +1030
From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com>
To: Mike Jenkins <mjenkins(a)carp.gbr.epa.gov>, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
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On Monday, 21 December 1998 at 16:17:50 -0600, Mike Jenkins wrote:
> There is a diagram at The Internet Operating System Counter which is at
> http://www.hzo.cubenet.de/ioscount/. Take the "Unix networking" link.
> It was published in iX, a German magazine.
As I feared when I heard it came from iX, it's *very* inaccurate.
For example, it claims that 1BSD was derived from 32/V (should have
been 3BSD), derives 1BSD from 1BSD and 4.1BSD (should be 4BSD) from
the second 1BSD (should be 3BSD), derives ``BSDI'' from 4.3BSD, when
in fact BSD/OS is derived from 4.4BSD, doesn't mention System V(.1) or
System V.3, etc. And all this is OS code, not networking code.
Greg
--
See complete headers for address, home page and phone numbers
finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key
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>From Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> Wed Dec 23 05:16:49 1998
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Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 11:16:49 -0800
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
From: Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com>
Subject: Emulex TU13 Dip Switch Layout?
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Dear PUPS List,
I have an Emulex TU13 tape drive interface. Does anyone on the list have
the dip switch layout so that I can program them properly?
Thank You,
Merry Christmas,
Rick Copeland
Hi,
I was given a couple of QBus PDP11 on which I'm going to run 2.11BSD or
some other version of UNIX. One /73 and one /83. Both had RL02 drives, a
couple of RD53's and loads of serial boards and an extra expansion box
each. Now there's that little question of lugging them back to my
apartment. So, is there any particular precaution I should take when it
comes to the RL02's? Are they sensitive to vibrations or something? Do
they have to be in some sort of transport mode?
Is there some information available online which explains how to operate
the RL02? Like how to open the drive, for starters... :) Or how the RL02
controller should be jumpered. (I guess that depends on what else is
present on the QBus though...)
Is there some other UNIX version that I can run on any of these machines?
I already have one PDP11/83 which happily runs 2.11BSD so it would be nice
to run older UNIX versions as well.
Thanks!
--
Jorgen Pehrson HP 9000/380 (NetBSD/hp300 1.3)
jp(a)spektr.ludvika.se DECstation 5000/200 (NetBSD/pmax 1.3)
http://spektr.ludvika.se/museum PDP11/83 (2.11BSD) VAX2000 (NetBSD/vax)
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>From "James E. Carpenter" <jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net> Mon Dec 21 09:17:43 1998
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From: "James E. Carpenter" <jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net>
Message-Id: <199812202317.SAA19857(a)zach1.tiac.net>
Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS 1.1 tapes --- how to restore?
To: rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys)
Date: Sun, 20 Dec 1998 18:17:43 -0500 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <199812161520.KAA28340(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> from "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" at Dec 16, 98 10:20:18 am
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> > I just took a quick look at my SunOS 3.2 tapes. The copyright file says:
> >
> > Copyright (c) 1986 by Sun Microsystems, Inc.
> >
> > Most of the files seem to be dated September 1986. Many others are dated
> > July 1986.
>
> Speaking of old SunOS tapes..... I have a friend that dug out a pair
> of SunOS 1.1 tapes that he has had for years. Alas, they are unreadable.
> Is there any way to rewrite those tapes from anyones archival materials?
> Sun has graciously allowed pre-sparc materials to be available on-line
> in the German Sun3 archives. All they have seems to be SunOS-4.1.1,
> though.
I could donate SunOS 3.2, SunOS 4.0 (MC68010), and the 4.0.3 upgrade to the
archive, assuming they want Sun2 material. I also have the SunOS 4.0.3
_upgrade_ for the 68020. All the tape files are tarred and gziped on a CDROM
I burned not too long ago.
> I am wondering if there is any interest in some of the early
> Sun tapes?
Well I'd sure love to see SunOS 1.x running on my 2/120. :-)
> Are the 1.1 tapes basically a 4.2BSD port? Are they in
> QIC-11 or QIC-24 format?
It would be 4-track QIC-11. SunOS 3.2 also came on four QIC-11 tapes. But
SunOS 4.x _probably_ only came on two QIC-24 tapes. (I say "probably"
because my SunOS 4.x tapes are in 9-track QIC-11 format. I _assume_ this was
done by somebody other than Sun so that it could be installed on a Sun2 with
older ROMs.)
- Jim
--
James E. Carpenter E-Mail: jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net
6 Munroe Drive
Plainville, MA 02762-1108 ICBM: 42 00' 15"N 71 20' 00"W
PGP: 7ADE9D99 Fingerprint: 8D AF 63 EC D3 51 14 3E F1 59 8A 68 32 63 3F 8E
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>From Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> Tue Dec 22 05:18:19 1998
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Date: Mon, 21 Dec 1998 11:18:19 -0800
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
From: Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com>
Subject: Problems booting 2.11 on a 11/84
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Dear PUPS List,
I have connected a Fujisu M2444 9 track to an Emulex TC13 that is in my
11/84. The following is what happens when I try to boot a BSD 2.11 tape
that I made on my uVax3600/TU81+ (@6250 bpi):
Enter device name and unit number then press the RETURN key: MS0
Trying MS0 (tape starts rolling)
Starting ROM boot
140276 (tape stops)
@
The boot programs that are available are quite extensive on this 11/84, it
does tapes, disks, just about everything. The M2444 is checked out by
doing the test (01 start, etc)and passes all the tests. If I reverse the
cables on the M2444 the LED on the TC13 comes on and the M2444 will not do
anything.
Rick Copeland
In article by User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys:
> I went to the archive site http://sun3arc.krupp.net
> and it attributes the permission to archive materials to a
> Mr. Knieriem of SUN Germany, Research and Education.
>
> One of the UHS folks might try to contact said Mr. Knieriem
> to see if adding some of our other early stuff would be feasible.
> The sun3arc site only has binaries, though.
> I would assume the PUPS/UHS archives might work out some kind
> of binary and source arrangement, perhaps?
I've emailed the webmaster at the site which the above query. I've
also added a link from the TUHS page to this site, so we don't lose
the reference.
Cheers,
> Mebbie we has started somethin' 'ere, methinks....(:+}}.....
> Bob Keys
Also we also have people inside Sun too! Sounds hopeful.
Thanks all,
Warren
"User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> wrote:
> What specifically would one look for to exactly differentiate
> a vanilla 4.3, from a Tahoe, from a Reno, from a 4.4, from a 4.4Lite,
> on non-standard hardware?
Telling between pre-Reno and post-Reno is trivial. If you see
directories like /usr/ucb, /usr/doc, /usr/man, binaries in /etc and in
/usr/lib, and so on, it's pre-Reno. If you see all docs, manpages, etc.
moved into /usr/share, /usr/ucb gone, no binaries in /etc or in /usr/lib,
strange critters appearing like /sbin, /usr/sbin, /usr/libexec, and
/usr/libdata, it's post-Reno.
Distinguishing between plain-4.3-based and Tahoe-based non-UCB systems
can be tough, and, frankly, pointless. Aside from hardware issues, the
noticeable differences between 4.3 and 4.3-Tahoe are the location of
source-form manpages (/usr/man/man[1-8] on 4.3, /usr/src/man/man[1-8] on
Tahoe), MX record support in Sendmail (present in Tahoe but not in 4.3),
and the Olson timezone implementation, i.e., that big pile of zoneinfo
files (again present in Tahoe but not in 4.3).
The reason exercises like this are pointless is because when some brave
vendor takes BSD sources and tries to make a vendor release from them, they
usually have their own mind about what the system should look like,
different from CSRG's. Vendors often take different pieces from different
systems on a subjective basis. A vendor release can have the feature set of
one system and the look and feel of another. For example, Ultrix V4.0 has
the classical pre-Reno look and feel, but yet is POSIXized to about the
same extent as Reno. Thus the blurb above about telling between pre-Reno
and post-Reno systems refers to the look and feel of a system, not to its
feature set. The plain 4.3 vs. Tahoe distinction doesn't really hold in
vendor systems either. Ultrix V4.0 has MX record support in Sendmail, but
its man mechanism is plain 4.3 vintage. Don't remember if there were
zoneinfo files there or not.
/var also has an interesting story. In the BSD line it appears in Reno,
but it originates in SunOS and Ultrix, systems with pre-Reno look and feel
on which a number of directories were moved from /usr to the newly-created
/var. Thus on 4.3 or 4.3-Tahoe you have /usr/spool/mail, on SunOS and
Ultrix you have /var/spool/mail, and on Reno and later you have /var/mail.
Oh, I forgot to mention that the filesystem format changed slightly and
disk label support was added between 4.3 and 4.3-Tahoe. Again this is
certainly meaningless for vendor systems because they always tweak the
filesystem format themselves and have their own disk label implementations
that are not compatible with the one in Tahoe and later BSD releases.
> The dating seems to be 1987 or 1988. Was Tahoe around then?
The Tahoe tape shipped in the summer of 1988, but of course the work at
CSRG was going all the time.
> Salus suggests straight 4.3 was June of 1986, and Tahoe was June
> of 1988 (Salus, p. 165).
Correct.
> but, a VAXStation 3500 just appeared
> in surplus.... maybe the bidding force will be with me.
Good luck. 4.3BSD-Quasijarus1 will run like a charm on it. If the force
is really with you, you may even be able to run it with the graphical
console, but if not, it's trivial to pull the QDSS boards out and run the
machine as a standard VAX.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET
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>From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Wed Dec 16 06:05:16 1998
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From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199812152005.PAA27002(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram --- AOS quirks
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.3.96.981215141724.4474C-100000(a)smithfield.transarc.com> from Pat Barron at "Dec 15, 98 02:34:00 pm"
To: pat(a)transarc.com
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 15:05:16 -0500 (EST)
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> On Tue, 15 Dec 1998, User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys wrote:
> No, the ROMP (the RT's CPU) is a RISC CPU.
OK.
> > Yes, there was an IBM'er that said he had some original tapes. I was
> > hoping he would check with someone at IBM to see what the status was.
>
> That would probably be me. I'm still looking - I have a call in right now
> to someone who might be able to help.
Oh, now that might be interesting. Maybe the old AOS BSD will roll again!
> > There was a group at Carnegie-Mellon that had some machines with AOS,
> > but I don't have any pointers to anyone up there, for sure.
>
> Best bet would probably be someone at the ITC or the CS department, or the
> Andrew Consortium. Don't really know many of those folks anymore, though,
> and not sure if anyone from the right time period is still around.
All I could find was one more recent fellow that had a ROMP board and
a set of BSD tapes for it, but he had not apparently gotten it running.
Also, most of the original folks seemed to be gone. Most everyone
I have run into has wanted to run AIX on the RT hardware instead of BSD.
I am beginning to feel like the odd man out if I shun AIX on the RT.
> I have one in my living room....
Gee, that make 3 extant boards and 1 real live machine! Neato!
Have you had yours up with a BSD? Anyone for a BSD rolling party?
Sounds like a little interest, maybe?
I wish Blue would donate that to the PUPS archives, yup, yup, yup.
That would be a nice gesture, and ought to be worth some PR brownies
for them. Technically, would that not fall under the Ancient Unix,
umbrella, anyway? That would be a legalese mumbo jumbo to sort out,
though, and not my forte.
Bob
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>From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Wed Dec 16 07:10:49 1998
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From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199812152110.QAA27141(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram --- AOS quirks
In-Reply-To: <199812152005.BAA10743(a)harrier.Uznet.NET> from Michael Sokolov at "Dec 15, 98 08:04:56 pm"
To: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET (Michael Sokolov)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 16:10:49 -0500 (EST)
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> "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> wrote:
> > What specifically would one look for to exactly differentiate
> > a vanilla 4.3, from a Tahoe, from a Reno, from a 4.4, from a 4.4Lite,
> > on non-standard hardware?
>
> Telling between pre-Reno and post-Reno is trivial.
..... Lotsa neat info for us lesser newbie types.
My main reason for asking was to try to place the AOS historically.
It is definitely pre-Reno, and the manpages are in user/man/manX
as to source pages. I was thinking it had timezones, though.
The compiler was still pcc, and a custom Hi-Tech C thing called hc.
> The reason exercises like this are pointless is because when some brave
> vendor takes BSD sources and tries to make a vendor release from them, they
> usually have their own mind about what the system should look like,
> different from CSRG's.
Granted, but the AOS system felt very unmodified, subjectively. So,
I was not thinking it was almost Reno, or somewhere close to that.
Knowing anything of the detailed structure helps me to place it
developmentally.
> Oh, I forgot to mention that the filesystem format changed slightly and
> disk label support was added between 4.3 and 4.3-Tahoe. Again this is
> certainly meaningless for vendor systems because they always tweak the
> filesystem format themselves and have their own disk label implementations
> that are not compatible with the one in Tahoe and later BSD releases.
OK, the AOS seemed to have a disklabel, but of a different format from
later releases. fsck has a field day if an update to one of the later
after-AOS builds is installed.
What would one use to differentiate the Lite from earlier systems?
The last build was in the 4xx range, and dated 1996, IFF I am remembering
right. It is running gcc at the 2.5.8 level. Are there key file system
dates or revision levels that would help to indicate how late it is?
......
> > but, a VAXStation 3500 just appeared
> > in surplus.... maybe the bidding force will be with me.
>
> Good luck. 4.3BSD-Quasijarus1 will run like a charm on it. If the force
> is really with you, you may even be able to run it with the graphical
> console, but if not, it's trivial to pull the QDSS boards out and run the
> machine as a standard VAX.
It is so ugly, noone in their normal PCish minds locally should bid on
it. So, maybe I will have a chance at it in a reasonable sort of way.
The machine is just the main tower box, and nothing else. It does have
a TK70 tape, but I was unable to open it up on the pallet and see what
was inside. There were no other bits and pieces with it. I was thinking
I could run it with a VT100ish terminal of some sort, as a bare-bones
system in the basement. How would the front/back cover open up, so
I could do a quick spot check and see what actually was inside?
If it has been gutted, I would probably pass, but if it was mostly
there, it might be worth looking at.
> Sincerely,
> Michael Sokolov
Thanks!
Bob Keys
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Dec 16 08:17:01 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199812152217.JAA06715(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (Unix Heritage Society)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:17:01 +1100 (EST)
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All,
Goodness, that was a lot of email :-) I spent the night playing with
the Graphviz tools, and my first drawing of the UNIX family tree is now on
the web page I mentioned yesterday
http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/Unix_History/
I've fixed the broken HTML so that Lynx will read the pages. I haven't
had a chance to convert all the version/date information that was sent in,
and I probably won't get to it before January.
Mind you, if people convert it into the file format I'm using, and mail it
to me, then it will be included immediately :-)
Anyway, thanks for all the feedback, and I'll get to it eventually.
Cheers,
Warren
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>From Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET> Wed Dec 16 08:31:08 1998
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From: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET>
Date: 15 Dec 1998 22:31:08 GMT
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram --- AOS quirks
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"User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> wrote:
> [...] the manpages are in user/man/manX
> as to source pages.
This is definitely plain 4.3 vintage, not Tahoe vintage. This does not
necessarily mean that other parts of the system are straight 4.3, though,
they could easily be Tahoe vintage. What version of Sendmail does it ship
with?
> I was thinking it had timezones, though.
Well, every UNIX system has some kind of timezone system, the question
is what kind. On plain 4.3 it just remembers "OK, I'm 8 hours behind
Greenwich" or so. On Tahoe it has a pile of zoneinfo files trying to
describe the timezone and daylight saving time rules for every city in the
world. I think these files are in /etc/zoneinfo, or maybe
/usr/lib/zoneinfo, something like that.
> Granted, but the AOS system felt very unmodified, subjectively. So,
> I was not thinking it was almost Reno, or somewhere close to that.
Well, that's good.
> Knowing anything of the detailed structure helps me to place it
> developmentally.
Then why don't you take its source and the sources for 4.3, 4.3-Tahoe,
or whatever you suspect it is, and see for yourself? In my directory on
minnie (Distributions/4bsd) you can find the full sources for 4.3 (both
plain and Rev 2), but unfortunately not for Tahoe (Rick Copeland hasn't
been able to read that part of the Tahoe tape due to media defects).
However, the CSRG Archives CD-ROMs have the full sources for everything,
including Tahoe.
> OK, the AOS seemed to have a disklabel, but of a different format from
> later releases.
Is the command actually called disklabel, or is it called something like
format or chpt? (This is how it's called under SunOS and Ultrix,
respectively, and they are indeed incompatible.)
> What would one use to differentiate the Lite from earlier systems?
If you are trying to tell between 4.4BSD and 4.4BSD-Lite, don't bother.
If you system boots, it can't be Lite. "Lite" means that there are no
binaries, only sources, and the sources won't build because about one half
of them is deleted. Now, it's true that there had been some changes to the
source tree between the 4.4BSD and 4.4BSD-Lite releases. If you want to see
if these changes have been incorporated into your vendor release, check the
Sendmail version number. For 4.4BSD it's 8.1. For 4.4BSD-Lite it's
8.6.something aka 8.7 Beta Rev something.
> It is running gcc at the 2.5.8 level.
Since I generally don't do gcc, I don't know anything about its version
numbers. However, just because it's gcc the system has to belong to Class
3. This is my own classification. Class 1 is True UNIX(R). Everything I
develop under Quasijarus Project will also belong to Class 1. It includes
everything from the original PDP-11 UNIX to 4.3BSD-Tahoe. Class 2 is
4.3BSD-Reno. In some respects it's still True UNIX (the compiler is pcc and
the kernel is 90% pure), but in other respects it's fallen (the directory
hierarchy is turned upside down and the evil spirit of POSIX starts to
creep in). Class 3 is Net/2, 4.4BSD-*, and Free/Net/OpenBSD. These are 100%
fallen (the evil spirit POSIX runs the sinful world, VAX support in the
kernel permanently broken, the compiler is gcc).
> The machine is just the main tower box, and nothing else. It does have
> a TK70 tape [...]
What else do you need? The disks are internal, and you do have a tape
drive. In fact, not just "a" tape drive, but a TK70, one of the best.
Unfortunately it can't write TK50 tapes, but it can read them, and its
native format is 3 times denser than the TK50 one and much faster too.
> I was thinking
> I could run it with a VT100ish terminal of some sort [...]
Sure! You say it's badged as a VAXstation, so you'll probably need to
pull two or three boards out to make it use the serial console.
> [...] as a bare-bones system [...]
What do you mean "bare-bones"? It's a VAX! What can be more powerful? It
has a KA650 CPU, which is not bad at all (2.8 VUPs), and you can upgrade it
to a KA655 (3.8 VUPs) or KA660 (5 VUPs) with a single board swap (the
memory is the same for all). KA650/655 is already supported by 4.3BSD-Reno
and Ultrix, and will be supported by 4.3BSD-Quasijarus1 as soon as I
release it. KA660 is not supported yet, but it will only take a dozen lines
or so to add this support.
> How would the front/back cover open up, so
> I could do a quick spot check and see what actually was inside?
There is nothing interesting in the back. The front door opens
trivially, just push the handle and swing the door open. You'll a 12-slot
backplane with a cover over each slot. The covers are supposed to have
labels on them. Reading them from right to left, you should see the CPU
(KA650-BA), memory (some variant of MS650), Ethernet (DELQA-SA), a disk
controller (probably KDA50 or KFQSA), and the TK70 controller (TQK70). If
all these pieces are there, you are all set! Of course if there is more
stuff there you are even more lucky.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET
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>From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Wed Dec 16 09:06:19 1998
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From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199812152306.SAA27350(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: VAXen funzies.... (gotta start somewhere).
In-Reply-To: <199812152231.DAA10882(a)harrier.Uznet.NET> from Michael Sokolov at "Dec 15, 98 10:31:08 pm"
To: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET (Michael Sokolov)
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1998 18:06:19 -0500 (EST)
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> > How would the front/back cover open up, so
> > I could do a quick spot check and see what actually was inside?
>
> There is nothing interesting in the back. The front door opens
> trivially, just push the handle and swing the door open. You'll a 12-slot
> backplane with a cover over each slot. The covers are supposed to have
> labels on them. Reading them from right to left, you should see the CPU
> (KA650-BA), memory (some variant of MS650), Ethernet (DELQA-SA), a disk
> controller (probably KDA50 or KFQSA), and the TK70 controller (TQK70). If
> all these pieces are there, you are all set! Of course if there is more
> stuff there you are even more lucky.
This one does not have a handle that I can find. There is a sliding
door over the tape drive, and then a plastic key sticks out the front
of the panel kind of like the keylock on a pc. If that key is the
handle, then, I will open it up tomorrow when I visit surplus again
to pick up a postscript printer, and see what is there. If that key
is not the handle, then it was not obvious what was on that side of
the box that should be the ``handle'' to open it up.
Bob
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>From Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET> Wed Dec 16 09:54:10 1998
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From: Michael Sokolov <msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET>
Date: 15 Dec 1998 23:54:10 GMT
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: VAXen funzies.... (gotta start somewhere).
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"User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> wrote:
> There is a sliding
> door over the tape drive, and then a plastic key sticks out the front
> of the panel kind of like the keylock on a pc.
The sliding window (yes, the DEC docs call it a window and not a door)
and the key are there to control access to the tape drive, to the disk
drive control buttons, to the HALT button, to the power switch, and to the
handle that opens the front door (the one you are looking for). The key has
3 positions: top. middle, and bottom. When the key is in the top position,
the window cannot be lowered at all, and the machine is secure. When the
key is in the middle position, the window can be lowered partially, and you
can access the tape drive, the disk drive control buttons, and the halt
button, but not the power switch or the front door handle. When the key is
in the bottom position, the window can be lowered completely and you can
access everything.
> If that key is the
> handle, then, I will open it up tomorrow when I visit surplus again
> to pick up a postscript printer, and see what is there. If that key
> is not the handle, then it was not obvious what was on that side of
> the box that should be the ``handle'' to open it up.
Turn the key to the bottom position. Lower the window all the way down.
Near the bottom of the opening you'll see the power switch and the handle
I'm talking about. This handle moves horizontally (left and right). I don't
have one of those boxes in front of me and I don't remember whether you
need to push it to the left or to the right, but I'm sure you can figure it
out experimentally.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Cellular phone: 216-217-2579
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: msokolov(a)harrier.Uznet.NET
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>From "James E. Carpenter" <jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net> Wed Dec 16 15:25:32 1998
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From: "James E. Carpenter" <jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net>
Message-Id: <199812160525.AAA19173(a)zach1.tiac.net>
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
To: kahn(a)tholian.net (Joey KAHN)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 00:25:32 -0500 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-Reply-To: <36766225.6955995B(a)tholian.net> from "Joey KAHN" at Dec 15, 98 08:20:37 am
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> All I recall about pre 4.0 was that we were using SunOS 3.5 in '88. I'd
> like to think 3.2 came out in '85 or '86--but memory isn't what it used
> to be...
I just took a quick look at my SunOS 3.2 tapes. The copyright file says:
Copyright (c) 1986 by Sun Microsystems, Inc.
Most of the files seem to be dated September 1986. Many others are dated
July 1986.
- Jim
--
James E. Carpenter E-Mail: jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net
6 Munroe Drive
Plainville, MA 02762-1108 ICBM: 42 00' 15"N 71 20' 00"W
PGP: 7ADE9D99 Fingerprint: 8D AF 63 EC D3 51 14 3E F1 59 8A 68 32 63 3F 8E
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>From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Thu Dec 17 01:20:18 1998
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From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199812161520.KAA28340(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS 1.1 tapes --- how to restore?
In-Reply-To: <199812160525.AAA19173(a)zach1.tiac.net> from "James E. Carpenter" at "Dec 16, 98 00:25:32 am"
To: jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net (James E. Carpenter)
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:20:18 -0500 (EST)
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> > All I recall about pre 4.0 was that we were using SunOS 3.5 in '88. I'd
> > like to think 3.2 came out in '85 or '86--but memory isn't what it used
> > to be...
>
> I just took a quick look at my SunOS 3.2 tapes. The copyright file says:
>
> Copyright (c) 1986 by Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>
> Most of the files seem to be dated September 1986. Many others are dated
> July 1986.
Speaking of old SunOS tapes..... I have a friend that dug out a pair
of SunOS 1.1 tapes that he has had for years. Alas, they are unreadable.
Is there any way to rewrite those tapes from anyones archival materials?
Sun has graciously allowed pre-sparc materials to be available on-line
in the German Sun3 archives. All they have seems to be SunOS-4.1.1,
though. I am wondering if there is any interest in some of the early
Sun tapes? Are the 1.1 tapes basically a 4.2BSD port? Are they in
QIC-11 or QIC-24 format?
Thanks
Bob Keys
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>From Eric Fischer <eric(a)fudge.uchicago.edu> Thu Dec 17 01:33:06 1998
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From: Eric Fischer <eric(a)fudge.uchicago.edu>
To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Re: Unix History Diagram
In-Reply-To: <199812142344.KAA05594(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
References: <199812142344.KAA05594(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
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> I was thinking of trying to update my `History of UNIX' diagram at
> http://minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au/TUHS/Images/unixtimeline.gif, to bring it up
> to date and make it more accurate.
Here are a few dates I was able to find, in the format from your
web page:
sysV
Name: System V
Date: 1983-01
Reference: System V Release Description, title page
sysVr2
Name: System V Release 2
Date: 1984-04
Reference: System V manual for 3B2, title page
sunos2
Name: SunOS 2.0
Date: 1985-05-15
Reference: SunOS 2.0 manual, title page
sunos3
Name: SunOS 3.0
Date: 1986-02-17
Reference: SunOS 3.0 manual, title page
pwb1.0
Name: PWB/UNIX 1.0
Date: 1977-07-1
Reference: /usr/news/pibs in the archived PWB distribution
# prerelease test versions: 1977-06-6, 1977-06-13
eric
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>From Billy Stivers <alyosha(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM> Thu Dec 17 03:59:44 1998
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Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 09:59:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Billy Stivers <alyosha(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM>
Reply-To: Billy Stivers <alyosha(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM>
Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS 1.1 tapes --- how to restore?
To: jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net, rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu
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Hey, Robert-
do you know if anybody from Sun Legal ever officially gave the okay
for that, because, as I was telling Warren, I have most SunOSes from
the very first V7 variant that they shipped, through the present day,
and it'd be a fairly simple matter to spool all of the sun1, sun2, and sun3
ones that are readable (should be a lot, they've been stored in carefully
climate-controlled and proper containers) to disk, and set the archives up
with them. There are some really neat innovations in older SunOS, and it'd
be neat to compare them, and try to track the tech-crossfeeding with the
4BSD trees, and early SunOSes. There's a lot of actual hands-on mucking
around by Bill Joy in some of the earliest releases.
--Bill
>From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
>Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS 1.1 tapes --- how to restore?
>To: jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net (James E. Carpenter)
>Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 10:20:18 -0500 (EST)
>Cc: kahn(a)tholian.net, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
>MIME-Version: 1.0
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>> > All I recall about pre 4.0 was that we were using SunOS 3.5 in '88. I'd
>> > like to think 3.2 came out in '85 or '86--but memory isn't what it used
>> > to be...
>>
>> I just took a quick look at my SunOS 3.2 tapes. The copyright file says:
>>
>> Copyright (c) 1986 by Sun Microsystems, Inc.
>>
>> Most of the files seem to be dated September 1986. Many others are dated
>> July 1986.
>
>Speaking of old SunOS tapes..... I have a friend that dug out a pair
>of SunOS 1.1 tapes that he has had for years. Alas, they are unreadable.
>Is there any way to rewrite those tapes from anyones archival materials?
>Sun has graciously allowed pre-sparc materials to be available on-line
>in the German Sun3 archives. All they have seems to be SunOS-4.1.1,
>though. I am wondering if there is any interest in some of the early
>Sun tapes? Are the 1.1 tapes basically a 4.2BSD port? Are they in
>QIC-11 or QIC-24 format?
>
>Thanks
>
>Bob Keys
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A "No" uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a
"Yes" merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
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>From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Thu Dec 17 04:29:27 1998
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From: "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Message-Id: <199812161829.NAA28899(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS 1.1 tapes --- how to restore?
In-Reply-To: <199812161759.JAA02912(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM> from Billy Stivers at "Dec 16, 98 09:59:44 am"
To: alyosha(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:29:27 -0500 (EST)
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> Hey, Robert-
>
> do you know if anybody from Sun Legal ever officially gave the okay
> for that, because, as I was telling Warren, I have most SunOSes from
> the very first V7 variant that they shipped, through the present day,
> and it'd be a fairly simple matter to spool all of the sun1, sun2, and sun3
> ones that are readable (should be a lot, they've been stored in carefully
> climate-controlled and proper containers) to disk, and set the archives up
> with them. There are some really neat innovations in older SunOS, and it'd
> be neat to compare them, and try to track the tech-crossfeeding with the
> 4BSD trees, and early SunOSes. There's a lot of actual hands-on mucking
> around by Bill Joy in some of the earliest releases.
>
> --Bill
>
> >Speaking of old SunOS tapes..... I have a friend that dug out a pair
> >of SunOS 1.1 tapes that he has had for years. Alas, they are unreadable.
> >Is there any way to rewrite those tapes from anyones archival materials?
> >Sun has graciously allowed pre-sparc materials to be available on-line
> >in the German Sun3 archives. All they have seems to be SunOS-4.1.1,
> >though. I am wondering if there is any interest in some of the early
> >Sun tapes? Are the 1.1 tapes basically a 4.2BSD port? Are they in
> >QIC-11 or QIC-24 format?
I think there is great potential in all of this.
AS I UNDERSTAND IT.....
Sun apparently gave the OK to a German archive site to put the the stuff
on-line. That is, in fact, where I picked up my sun3 tapes to resurrect
my old box. It only seems be be pre-sparc related 68000 based stuff.
The details were given on the web site, and were discussed on one
of the Sun newsfeeds.
Try the http://doener.unix-ag.uni-kl.de/ site, and it is explained
there. The guy actually got Sun to OK it, as far as I know, but
I have no idea of the exact legalese involved, but memory tells
me it was Sun Germany that gave the go-ahead on it.
The site may have moved to http://sun3arc.krupp.net, since I was
thinking a move was in progress a couple of months back.
I think I got to it via a link from www.sunhelp.com or www.sunfreeware.com.
The idea occurred to me that IFF Sun has gone that far, we should check
into putting the older releases there, too, as they may still exist.
Also, perhaps, as they would fit under the Ancient Unix umbrella, I would
think, then PUPS/UHS should likewise take an interest in such potential.
I would be of the opinion that any of the pre-SysIII/SysV related stuff,
in addition to the purist ATT/Berkeley releases ought to be put back for
archival use, too, as it should be covered under the Ancient Unix umbrella.
If I am too far off on that, let me know. I am but a very minor newbie
bit player in all of this.
Bob Keys
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>From "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" <rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> Thu Dec 17 04:43:43 1998
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Message-Id: <199812161843.NAA28957(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu>
Subject: Re: Ancient SunOS Tapes for UHS archives?????
In-Reply-To: <199812161759.JAA02912(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM> from Billy Stivers at "Dec 16, 98 09:59:44 am"
To: alyosha(a)vrytekai.Corp.Sun.COM
Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 13:43:43 -0500 (EST)
Cc: jimc(a)zach1.tiac.net, kahn(a)tholian.net, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
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> Hey, Robert-
>
> do you know if anybody from Sun Legal ever officially gave the okay
> for that, because, as I was telling Warren, I have most SunOSes from
> the very first V7 variant that they shipped, through the present day,
> and it'd be a fairly simple matter to spool all of the sun1, sun2, and sun3
> ones that are readable (should be a lot, they've been stored in carefully
> climate-controlled and proper containers) to disk, and set the archives up
> with them. There are some really neat innovations in older SunOS, and it'd
> be neat to compare them, and try to track the tech-crossfeeding with the
> 4BSD trees, and early SunOSes. There's a lot of actual hands-on mucking
> around by Bill Joy in some of the earliest releases.
>
> --Bill
It would be fun to see some of Bill Joy's hacks....(:+}}.....
I went to the archive site http://sun3arc.krupp.net
and it attributes the permission to archive materials to a
Mr. Knieriem of SUN Germany, Research and Education.
One of the UHS folks might try to contact said Mr. Knieriem
to see if adding some of our other early stuff would be feasible.
The sun3arc site only has binaries, though.
I would assume the PUPS/UHS archives might work out some kind
of binary and source arrangement, perhaps?
Someone other than the tailwagging newbie here, should persue
this and see where it goes?
Mebbie we has started somethin' 'ere, methinks....(:+}}.....
Bob Keys
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>From "Erin W. Corliss" <erin(a)coffee.corliss.net> Thu Dec 17 05:47:37 1998
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Date: Wed, 16 Dec 1998 11:47:37 -0800 (PST)
From: "Erin W. Corliss" <erin(a)coffee.corliss.net>
Reply-To: "Erin W. Corliss" <erin(a)coffee.corliss.net>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: PDP-11/73
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.981216113259.23904B-100000(a)coffee.corliss.net>
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So get this...
I downloaded the machine emulators package and the binaries for Unix
version 7 from the PUPS ftp site, hoping that I could use it to create a
bootable disk image to put on my PDP-11/73 that would run getty on one of
the serial ports besides the console... I compiled the emulators on a
Slackware Linux 2.0.30 machine, and they seemed to compile OK. From the
emulator I followed the instructions for booting Unix 7. I had the
following error every time I tried booting:
Trap stack push abort, PC: 004567 (MOV R3,(SP))
Anybody have a clue why this is happening?
