All,
I've just received another 5 SCO Ancient UNIX license details in the
mail, bringing the total purchased from SCO to 101. I think that's pretty
impressive. Just thought you'd like to know.
Cheers all,
Warren
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>From Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Fri Nov 27 02:50:34 1998
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From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU
Message-Id: <981126115034.2a2004dc(a)trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Pro/Venix and Y2K
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The following exchange recently took place on comp.sys.dec.micro/
vmsnet.pdp-11/alt.sys.pdp11. In it, I made the guess that PRO Venix
is based on 2.9BSD - does anyone know more details about its heritage?
Donato B. Masaoy III wrote:
>
> Came into a Pro 380 and loaded Venix as a means of tyring out Unix.
> Noticed that at 2000 it sets itself back to 1970. Is there fix for this?
> Should I bother?
The PRO 380 Time-Of-Year clock has two modes:
1. BCD mode, where the year is stored in two decimal digits.
2. Binary mode, where the year is stored as at least 7 bits (more
likely 8 bits - it's been a couple of months since the changes
were implemented the fix in RT-11's PI.SYS, PIX.SYS, and
SETUP.SAV to make it Y2K compliant.)
When in BCD mode, 31-Dec-99 rolls over into 1-Jan-00, and the
clock keeps accurately ticking. Venix evidently chokes on this
and doesn't interpret "00" as "2000".
As Unix is incapable of representing times internally outside
the range 1970-2038, the obvious fix is to interpret BCD years
in the range 70-99 as being in the 1900's, and the BCD years
in the range 00-38 as in the 2000's. This is, for example,
how BSD2.11 interprets the two-digit 11/93 or 11/94 clock year.
Of course, finding the sources to Pro 380 Venix to implement
the changes may be difficult. The PUPS archive has a version of 2.9BSD
patches for the Pro, and if you're lucky Venix may be close
enough that you can use the Pro-specific clock sources to patch
your kernel binary. In the 2.9BSD Pro patches, the clock
code is in "/sys-dev/prostuff.c", and begins:
/* These two fuctions handle the pro 300's clock
* This code is defunct at the end of the century.
* Will Unix still be here then??
*/
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
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>From "David C. Jenner" <djenner(a)halcyon.com> Fri Nov 27 04:48:45 1998
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From: "David C. Jenner" <djenner(a)halcyon.com>
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Subject: Re: Pro/Venix and Y2K
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There probably isn't much BSD lineage in Version 1 of Venix,
but there is some in Version 2. Probably mostly in the form
of the usual add-ons like VI.
There's some confusion about this (at least in my mind), so any
authoritative info would be interesting.
First of all there's:
"Venix/Pro" from Venturecom, which is definitely of AT&T lineage,
probably V7/SysIII for V1 of Venix/Pro, and perhaps a bit of
BSD stuff mixed in for V2 of Venix/Pro. This is what you find at
Internet archives.
Then there's:
"Pro/Venix" from DEC, which is a repackaging of Venix/Pro. Again,
there are Versions 1 and 2 of this. I have V1 and docs for V2,
but no disks for V2.
I'd really like to find a copy of the distribution of DEC
Pro/Venix V2, if it's legal (and having the Ancient Unix license
would seem to make it OK for at least the AT&T side).
For Pro/Venix, V2, the manual entry for
"clock(7) - time-of-day clock" is:
/dev/clock refers to a time-of-day, battery-backed-up clock. This
device node is provided primarily for the benefit of the date com-
mand, which will read from it given the -l flag (usually done on
system start-up), and write to it if a new date is set.
...
struct clkbuf {
int clk_sec; /* second (0-59) */
int clk_min; /* minute (0-59) */
int clk_hour; /* hour (0-23) */
int clk_mday; /* day of month (1-31) */
int clk_mon; /* month (0-11) */
int clk_year; /* year (00-99) */
int clk_wday; /* day of the week (Sunday = 0) */
int clk_yday; /* day of the year (0-365) */
int clk_dst; /* non-zero if daylight savings applies */
};
So, it looks bad at least from the internal representation of the
year. Since I don't have this version, I can't comment on exactly
what happens.
Dave
Tim Shoppa wrote:
>
> The following exchange recently took place on comp.sys.dec.micro/
> vmsnet.pdp-11/alt.sys.pdp11. In it, I made the guess that PRO Venix
> is based on 2.9BSD - does anyone know more details about its heritage?
>
> Donato B. Masaoy III wrote:
> >
> > Came into a Pro 380 and loaded Venix as a means of tyring out Unix.
> > Noticed that at 2000 it sets itself back to 1970. Is there fix for this?
> > Should I bother?
>
> The PRO 380 Time-Of-Year clock has two modes:
>
> 1. BCD mode, where the year is stored in two decimal digits.
> 2. Binary mode, where the year is stored as at least 7 bits (more
> likely 8 bits - it's been a couple of months since the changes
> were implemented the fix in RT-11's PI.SYS, PIX.SYS, and
> SETUP.SAV to make it Y2K compliant.)
>
> When in BCD mode, 31-Dec-99 rolls over into 1-Jan-00, and the
> clock keeps accurately ticking. Venix evidently chokes on this
> and doesn't interpret "00" as "2000".
>
> As Unix is incapable of representing times internally outside
> the range 1970-2038, the obvious fix is to interpret BCD years
> in the range 70-99 as being in the 1900's, and the BCD years
> in the range 00-38 as in the 2000's. This is, for example,
> how BSD2.11 interprets the two-digit 11/93 or 11/94 clock year.
>
> Of course, finding the sources to Pro 380 Venix to implement
> the changes may be difficult. The PUPS archive has a version of 2.9BSD
> patches for the Pro, and if you're lucky Venix may be close
> enough that you can use the Pro-specific clock sources to patch
> your kernel binary. In the 2.9BSD Pro patches, the clock
> code is in "/sys-dev/prostuff.c", and begins:
>
> /* These two fuctions handle the pro 300's clock
> * This code is defunct at the end of the century.
> * Will Unix still be here then??
> */
>
> --
> Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
> Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
> 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
> Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
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>From Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca> Fri Nov 27 05:04:36 1998
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From: Ken Wellsch <kcwellsc(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
Message-Id: <199811261904.OAA22036(a)math.uwaterloo.ca>
Subject: Re: Pro/Venix and Y2K
To: SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com (Tim Shoppa)
Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 14:04:36 -0500 (EST)
Cc: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU
In-Reply-To: <981126115034.2a2004dc(a)trailing-edge.com> from "Tim Shoppa" at Nov 26, 98 11:50:34 am
Organization: University of Waterloo, Math Faculty Computing Facility (Alumni)
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Hi Tim,
| The following exchange recently took place on comp.sys.dec.micro/
| vmsnet.pdp-11/alt.sys.pdp11. In it, I made the guess that PRO Venix
| is based on 2.9BSD - does anyone know more details about its heritage?
There are several folks with vastly better knowledge on this than I, but
should they not speak up, I'll mumble on what little I know.
Venix is an outgrowth of V6 UNIX I believe - from my fadding memory of
the little I played with it, the file system is definitely V6 based (with
the notion of "huge" files, i.e. the index pointers would switch from
direct to indirect, while I believe V7 took a much better approach).
The 2BSD branch I believe took a much later fork, V7 or later? It also
played a more central role than Venix I expect, contributing a goodly
amount of later PDP-11/UNIX based things that others borrowed (e.g. Ultrix
3 from DEC took csh and vi among other goodies).
| As Unix is incapable of representing times internally outside
| the range 1970-2038, the obvious fix is to interpret BCD years
| in the range 70-99 as being in the 1900's, and the BCD years
| in the range 00-38 as in the 2000's. This is, for example,
| how BSD2.11 interprets the two-digit 11/93 or 11/94 clock year.
Gee, I didn't think there was one "UNIX" in the world 8-) How big are
your integers? Do you use signed or unsigned values for the epoch since
Jan 1 1970? It seems hard to believe anything in the UNIX world of today
has this limitation.
I'll agree there is likely just the one "RT-11" though 8-)
-- Ken
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>From Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Fri Nov 27 05:15:17 1998
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Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 14:15:17 -0500
From: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.OZ.AU
Message-Id: <981126141517.2a2003cb(a)trailing-edge.com>
Subject: Re: Pro/Venix and Y2K
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>There's some confusion about this (at least in my mind), so any
>authoritative info would be interesting.
I agree - and would love more definitive information (Or, even
better, the sources to Pro/Venix.) I've
learned an amazing amount about segments of the Unix lineage
just from the comments in the past week, but the gaps in
my knowledge still loom large!
It's entirely possible that Pro/Venix uses the Pro
clock in BCD mode - it looked to me that the 2.9BSD version
does it in binary mode.
>struct clkbuf {
> int clk_sec; /* second (0-59) */
> int clk_min; /* minute (0-59) */
> int clk_hour; /* hour (0-23) */
> int clk_mday; /* day of month (1-31) */
> int clk_mon; /* month (0-11) */
> int clk_year; /* year (00-99) */
> int clk_wday; /* day of the week (Sunday = 0) */
> int clk_yday; /* day of the year (0-365) */
> int clk_dst; /* non-zero if daylight savings applies */
>};
>
>So, it looks bad at least from the internal representation of the
>year.
It depends on what you want to call "bad". It's quite possible
to build a Y2K compliant system out of non-Y2K compliant
components!
2.11BSD's date(1) was patched for Y2K in such a way that "00" in
the two-digit year would be interpreted as the year 2000. (See
patch #327 for the details.)
Would similar fixes for more historic Unices be useful to the general
folk here?
--
Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
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>From "David C. Jenner" <djenner(a)halcyon.com> Fri Nov 27 05:49:47 1998
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Date: Thu, 26 Nov 1998 11:49:47 -0800
From: "David C. Jenner" <djenner(a)halcyon.com>
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To: Tim Shoppa <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com>
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Subject: Re: Pro/Venix and Y2K
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It's "bad" in the sense that the evidence available (empirical,
and sparse code) suggests that the software (and probably the
hardware) is working with only two-digit years.
You could, of course, try to remedy the Y2K problem by properly
handling the clock. But the evidence suggests that the
problem may be spread over lots of code. As you say, it would
be nice to have the Pro/Venix code (as opposed to the Venix/Pro
code).
DEC's Pro/Venix is more flexible than Venturecom's Venix/Pro.
You can write and link custom device drivers with the kernel
in Pro/Venix. There is some hope you could actually "fix"
/dev/clock, but this probably isn't enough to solve the whole
Y2K problem.
Again, any knowledge about the whereabouts of even the binary
distribution disks of DEC's V2 Pro/Venix would be great.
Dave
Tim Shoppa wrote:
>
> >There's some confusion about this (at least in my mind), so any
> >authoritative info would be interesting.
>
> I agree - and would love more definitive information (Or, even
> better, the sources to Pro/Venix.) I've
> learned an amazing amount about segments of the Unix lineage
> just from the comments in the past week, but the gaps in
> my knowledge still loom large!
>
> It's entirely possible that Pro/Venix uses the Pro
> clock in BCD mode - it looked to me that the 2.9BSD version
> does it in binary mode.
>
> >struct clkbuf {
> > int clk_sec; /* second (0-59) */
> > int clk_min; /* minute (0-59) */
> > int clk_hour; /* hour (0-23) */
> > int clk_mday; /* day of month (1-31) */
> > int clk_mon; /* month (0-11) */
> > int clk_year; /* year (00-99) */
> > int clk_wday; /* day of the week (Sunday = 0) */
> > int clk_yday; /* day of the year (0-365) */
> > int clk_dst; /* non-zero if daylight savings applies */
> >};
> >
> >So, it looks bad at least from the internal representation of the
> >year.
>
> It depends on what you want to call "bad". It's quite possible
> to build a Y2K compliant system out of non-Y2K compliant
> components!
>
> 2.11BSD's date(1) was patched for Y2K in such a way that "00" in
> the two-digit year would be interpreted as the year 2000. (See
> patch #327 for the details.)
>
> Would similar fixes for more historic Unices be useful to the general
> folk here?
>
> --
> Tim Shoppa Email: shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com
> Trailing Edge Technology WWW: http://www.trailing-edge.com/
> 7328 Bradley Blvd Voice: 301-767-5917
> Bethesda, MD, USA 20817 Fax: 301-767-5927
Wortner, Frank (RSCH) <Frank_Wortner(a)ml.com> writes to me:
> P.S. You might want to forward this to the PUPS list, since I'm no longer
> an active member (emal address changes, etc.)
Doing so.
Forwarded message:
>From Frank_Wortner(a)ml.com Wed Nov 25 11:31 EST 1998
Return-Path: <Frank_Wortner(a)ml.com>
>From "Wortner, Frank Thu Nov 26 02:27:07 1998
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From: "Wortner, Frank (RSCH)" <Frank_Wortner(a)ml.com>
To: "'mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu'" <mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu>
Subject: Re: What *was* the Tahoe?
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 11:27:07 -0500
This one I know the answer to. "Tahoe" was the internal name for a computer
called the "Compter Consoles Inc. 632." (At least that's what I recall."
The machine itself was a light grey cube about the size of a VAX 750 CPU.
The cube housed the CPU, the disk drives (Fujitsu "Super Eagles" I think)
and an auto-loading tape drive. If I recall correctly, the manufacturer
was located in Rochester, New York, USA.
I used to sys admin one of these beasts -- a *long* time ago. They were
pretty durable: mine not only survived an air condioner failure during
which the temperature rose to more than 100 degrees Fahrenheit, it actually
kept on working without a break for several hours!
It was a good box, an attempt at a "VAX-killer," but it never really
managed to grab a substantial base from DEC's boxes.
Frank
P.S. You might want to forward this to the PUPS list, since I'm no longer
an active member (emal address changes, etc.)
Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> writes:
> Therefore, once SCO reads through the legal documents (which they now
> own), I'd be pretty sure that they will still treat Net/2 as
> contaminated, and people will need a 32V license in some form in order to
> legally acquire a copy of the Net/2 tape.
Then until/unless Warren tells me otherwise, I'll keep Net/2 together
with the real 4BSD distributions in Distributions/4bsd/net2, readable by
the members of the pupsarc group only.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular)
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu
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Dear PUPS/TUHS members,
All 4BSD distributions formerly in my home directory on minnie are now
in the Distributions/4bsd directory. This directory is now owned by me, and
from now on I will be maintaining PUPS's 4BSD collection.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular)
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In article by J. Joseph Max Katz:
> They may have the sources rm'd that aren't supposed to be there.
As far as I can tell (at a quick glance), the distribution is intact.
I'm just comparing cksums between the Net/2 on the CSRG CD#2 and from
the ftp site. I'm only doing sys/kern and sys/ufs.
Absolutely no difference. diff on all file pairs gives no output.
cksum gives the same checksums for each file pair (CD vs ftp).
Hmm.....
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Nov 25 12:20:41 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199811250220.NAA06820(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Net/2: still at ftp.uu.net
To: simul8(a)simul8.demon.co.uk (James Lothian)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 13:20:41 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <01BE1817.1E6F2EF0@SONAR> from James Lothian at "Nov 25, 98 01:58:33 am"
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In article by James Lothian:
> In the UK, sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk has a directory
> /computing/systems/unix/4.3bsd-net2, which
> seems to be all the unencumbered bits of net/2.
> James
It appears that several files from sys/kern and sys/ufs
have been removed. All files still in these directories
are intact. I haven't examined any other directories.
They're in a safer legal position.
Warren
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Dear PUPS/TUHS members,
I have analyzed Rick's 4.3BSD Rev 2 Foreign images in
Distributions/4bsd/43rev2 and converted them into the standard BSD release
format used by me as the maintainer of 4.3BSD. I didn't change the contents
of any files, I just gave the directory and all files their systematic
names (being systematic and punctual in packaging and naming is essential
to maintaining an archive of many different versions of software). I also
uncompressed and recompressed all files so that the names stored inside the
gzip headers are correct. Finally, I have created a tar tvf listing for
every tarball. The result is in /usr/home/msokolov/43rev2_f. Warren, please
put this into the main PUPS archive.
Note, though, that usr.tar (file 4) is cut short. I have indicated this
in the BROKEN.TXT file. Also this is a "foreign" tape, meaning that it has
a slightly crippled crypt(3) and missing crypt(1). Given that this tape is
both a little broken and "foreign", CWRU's 4.3BSD tape images in
/usr/home/msokolov/43.vax may be a better choice for some people. They have
normal crypt(3) and crypt(1) and have absolutely no defects. (That's the
advantage of 1600 BPI over 6250 BPI. Rick seems to be having a really hard
time reading 6250 BPI 4.3 and 4.3-Tahoe tapes, while CWRU's 1600 BPI 4.3BSD
tapes read fine on the first attempt.) Rick's ones are Rev 2, though, and
CWRU's are not.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular)
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu
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>From Alan F R Bain <A.F.R.Bain(a)dpmms.cam.ac.uk> Tue Nov 24 20:46:15 1998
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To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Version 7 for the PERQ
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 10:46:15 +0000
From: Alan F R Bain <A.F.R.Bain(a)dpmms.cam.ac.uk>
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A question which I have been meaning to ask for a while and which I
was reminded of by the discussion of the AMD 2900 bit slice processors
was a version of AT&T V7 unix for the ICL PERQ computer. This was so
similar to the original that the manual was an original AT&T
one with instructions on which pages to pull out and throw
away and some new ones to insert. [basically all PDP11 hardware
specific ones go; and there are some new bits such as chatter as
simple serial comms program]. I have several binary only
distributions of this -- it was called PNX.
What I'd be really interested to know is how it evolved from V7;
in particular the new version of `m40.s'. In particular it seems
to run on top of a rather weird instruction set which isn't
very like that of the PDP11 (which would have seemed like an obvious
choice at first sight for a soft-microcodeable machine). The
use of as and cc with options to write out assembler is considered
as `not a user option' in the manual; although it still works.
I have to say that in general the port seems quite bad and in
need of lots of work to make it correctly functional. However
it's nice to have V7 readily available on a graphics workstation
with 1Mb RAM and 768x1024 display :-)
I'd be very interested to find out more of the source to PNX
or especially the microcode
Alan
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>From Kirk McKusick <mckusick(a)mckusick.com> Wed Nov 25 02:19:01 1998
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To: SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com
Subject: Re: Reno (was Re: What *was* the Tahoe?)
cc: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
In-reply-to: Your message of "Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:05:52 EST."
<981123110552.2a200243(a)trailing-edge.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 08:19:01 -0800
From: Kirk McKusick <mckusick(a)mckusick.com>
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From: SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:05:52 -0500
To: PUPS(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
Subject: Reno (was Re: What *was* the Tahoe?)
Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
>Tahoe was the internal "code" name that Computer Consoles Inc used
>for their Power 6/32 processor.
That's useful. The Tahoe-specific documentation also mentions
the Harris HCX-7, the Unisys 7000/40, and ICL Clan 7 - were
these in any way compatible with the Tahoe, or just "other"
ports?
And where does "Reno" come from, while we're at it?
Tim. (shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com)
The 4.3-Reno distribution was named after the city of that name
in Nevada. We picked that name because the 4.3-Reno distribution
was an interim release on the way to 4.4BSD and hence was not as
fully polished or tested as our production releases. The idea was to
remind recipients that it was more of a "gamble" to run Reno than
our production releases.
Kirk McKusick
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Nov 25 09:05:02 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199811242305.KAA05334(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Net2 Status: likely outcome
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:05:02 +1100 (EST)
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I haven't heard back from SCO re the Net/2 status, but given that USL
was sold to Novell & then to SCO, and they have copies of all the legal
documents, I'm sure that SCO will quickly find out the details of the
USL vs UCB settlement.
Kirk has told me that the settlement explicitly stated that a set of
files from Net/2 was not to be distributed, and that this set of files
was not to be revealed: this was done to prevent a subset of Net/2
from being freely redistributed. CSRG made changes to about 70 files
and deleted three files outright.
Kirk is legally unable to reveal the list of affected files in Net/2.
I've just had a poke around the SCCS files on CD#4 on the CSRG CD set.
Several of the SCCS comments for the kernel files have the word USL in
them:
add USL's copyright notice
changes for 4.4BSD-Lite requested by USL
There's also a list of binary-only files in BSD/386 1.1 at
http://www.bsdi.com/info/lawsuit/940208.update
I assume, therefore, that it wouldn't be too hard to find out the set of
files in Net/2 affected by the settlement.
Therefore, once SCO reads through the legal documents (which they now own),
I'd be pretty sure that they will still treat Net/2 as contaminated, and
people will need a 32V license in some form in order to legally acquire
a copy of the Net/2 tape.
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Nov 25 09:56:09 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199811242356.KAA05513(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Also: PUPS digest mail list
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 10:56:09 +1100 (EST)
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I should also say that there's a digest form of the PUPS/TUHS mail list
which comes out twice weekly. If you'd rather be on that list, please
send me some email.
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Wed Nov 25 11:00:17 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199811250100.MAA05738(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Net/2: still at ftp.uu.net
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 12:00:17 +1100 (EST)
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Just FYI, net/2 afficionados might care to look around in
ftp://ftp.uu.net/systems/unix/bsd-sources
I assume that they are in a legally dubious situation.
Warren
When I wrote in a previous message:
> Actually, gcc is even worse than a mere mortal,
> since it's GNU. It comes directly from the Inferno.
I didn't know that Lucent has a product named Inferno, as some people
have pointed out to me. In any case, I meant the actual Inferno, also known
as Hell, i.e., the fifth dimension of the Universe inhabited and ruled by
Satan, not the Lucent product.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular)
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue Nov 24 13:27:57 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199811240327.OAA04039(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: BSD Network Version 2 upload
To: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu (Michael Sokolov)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:27:57 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <199811240218.VAA17230(a)skybridge.scl.cwru.edu> from Michael Sokolov at "Nov 23, 98 09:18:03 pm"
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In article by Michael Sokolov:
> Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> writes:
> > I'll check with SCO [what their stance is on the Net/2 tape]
>
> That's a good idea. Please let us know what they say.
Dion at SCO doesn't even know what Net/2 is. I've sent him some details.
He wants to know exactly what the settlement was between USL and UCB in
regards to the Net/2 tape. I don't have the exact particulars here
(just a News article from Keith Bostic), so I've asked Kirk if he could
give me the exact ruling. I'll pass on any words from SCO to the mailing
list as I receive them.
Warren
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>From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au> Tue Nov 24 13:47:41 1998
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Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 14:47:41 +1100 (EST)
From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au>
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cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: What *was* the Tahoe?
In-Reply-To: <199811231820.NAA16912(a)skybridge.scl.cwru.edu>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.03.9811241432560.399-100000@fgh>
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On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Michael Sokolov wrote:
> I have noticed that the Tahoe architecture is big-endian (I use this to
> easily tell between VAX and Tahoe binaries and filesystem dumps). Is this
> what you mean? Or is there any more backwardness?
It's basically a big-endian Vax. When disassembling code, I never knew
whether to wear my Vax hat or my Motorola hat :-) I believe that the
Harris 7, the ICL Clan etc were just badge-engineered. Nice machine,
and no relation to the CCI 5/32 and the 5/32X (680x0) other than the
manufacturer.
> At least the FPU card was optional, since the Tahoe code in BSD has a
> emulator for it.
And the Ethernet card cost AU$10,000 (ca. 80s). It had a STUPID ribbon
cable connector to the D15 socket; misalign it by one pin (easy to do),
since there was no key; you had to count 13 pins down) and you blew the
card. I did, once...
--
Dave Horsfall VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: +61 2 9978-7422
Geac Computers P/L (FGH Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia
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Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> writes:
> I'll check with SCO
That's a good idea. Please let us know what they say.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular)
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu
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Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> writes:
> I have just put BSD Network Version 2 up on Minnie in the incoming
> directory.
Warren, I think this one should go into minnie's anonymous FTP area,
since it does not require a UNIX license and was specifically designed to
be publicly distributable. I didn't do any repacking on it in my home
directory, since it's just one big tarball. I've done a tar tvf on the
tarball, though, and the listing produced is in /usr/home/msokolov/NET2.lst
on minnie.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular)
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue Nov 24 08:17:39 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199811232217.JAA03246(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: 4.3/4.4 IBM distributions (need history)
To: rdkeys(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu (User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:17:39 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au (PDP Unix Preservation)
In-Reply-To: <199811231709.MAA09886(a)seedlab1.cropsci.ncsu.edu> from "User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys" at "Nov 23, 98 12:09:28 pm"
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In article by User Rdkeys Robert D. Keys:
> I am curious, though, about the releases of BSD for the old RT.
> I have uncovered three discrete distributions, one labelled IBM,
> and two non-labelled, but which were apparently out of IBM or related
> to IBM in some way, maybe after IBM dropped AOS, but I am not sure.
> The background of it all is a mystery.
>
> Is there any interest on the list to archive the ports that I have?
> Warren?
I tell you what, Bob. I'll mirror whatever you've got :-)
But you'll have to organise it and write the READMEs!
Warren
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue Nov 24 08:19:29 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199811232219.JAA03263(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: 4BSD bloat
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 09:19:29 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
In-Reply-To: <199811231747.MAA16896(a)skybridge.scl.cwru.edu> from Michael Sokolov at "Nov 23, 98 12:47:58 pm"
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In article by Michael Sokolov:
>I have heard jokes that CSRG got Microsoft to rewrite 90% of the code for them.
>Seriously, though, the bloat starts in Reno and really gets out of hand in 4.4.
>The sources are bloated just as much as the binaries, so I wouldn't blame it
>just on the compiler or the libraries.
I can hear Steven Schultz say that the address space limitations of a
16-bit architecture help to minimise software bloat :-)
Warren
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>From Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> Tue Nov 24 09:53:48 1998
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Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 15:53:48 -0800
To: pups(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU
From: Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com>
Subject: Upload BSD4.3 Rev. 2, Foreign Master
Cc: wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au
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Dear PUPS list,
I have up loaded to Minnie the "BSD4.3 Revision 2 for VAX, Foreign Master"
passed to me by
Mr. Kirk McKusick. This tape image is zipped with WinZip 6.22 and includes
a readme file.
Sincerely,
Rick Copeland
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>From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au> Tue Nov 24 11:04:26 1998
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From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Message-Id: <199811240104.MAA03819(a)henry.cs.adfa.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Upload BSD4.3 Rev. 2, Foreign Master
To: rickgc(a)calweb.com (Rick Copeland)
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:04:26 +1100 (EST)
Cc: pups(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU
In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19981123155338.00935c40(a)pop.calweb.com> from Rick Copeland at "Nov 23, 98 03:53:48 pm"
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In article by Rick Copeland:
> Dear PUPS list,
>
> I have up loaded to Minnie the "BSD4.3 Revision 2 for VAX, Foreign Master"
> passed to me by Kirk McKusick.
> Rick Copeland
It's now available in Distributions/4bsd/43rev2 in the PUPS Archive.
Warren
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>From James Lothian <simul8(a)simul8.demon.co.uk> Tue Nov 24 11:15:24 1998
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From: James Lothian <simul8(a)simul8.demon.co.uk>
To: "pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au" <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>
Subject: RE: 4.3-VAX distributions
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 01:15:24 -0000
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Just thought I'd throw my oar in: my 11/750 is currently running a version
of 4.3 taken off a set of tapes I saved from being thrown out by a Uni
department I used to work for. The labels on the tapes say:
Ultrix
4.3+NFS Wisconsin UNIX 1/15/87
And another label says:
* The contents of this tape are distributed to UNIX/32V,
System 3 or System 5, and SUN 3.0 NFS licencees only,
subject to your software agreement with AT&T (Western
Electric), your license agreement with the Regents of the
University of California, and your license agreement with
SUN Microsystems.
* The University of Wisconsin - Madison Computer System
Laboratory assumes no responsibility for unauthorized use
of these contents by non-licensed entities.
RCS strings seem to indicate that the code was maintained by
someone called Tad Lebeck.
As far as I can tell, it's mainly a fairly stock early 4.3 with no disk-labels,
with all the sun rpc/yp/nfs stuff grafted on and a whole lot of bugs that
I've had no end of fun fixing.
Does anybody know anything about the history of this version? In particular,
does it bear any real relation to Ultrix, or is the tape just mis-labelled?
If anybody else out there is running this thing and wonders why ptrace(2) causes
such mayhem, or why portmap crashes when they try to run YP, I'd be happy to
supply patches....
James
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>From "Eric Edwards" <eekg(a)ix.netcom.com> Tue Nov 24 11:40:51 1998
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From: "Eric Edwards" <eekg(a)ix.netcom.com>
To: <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU>
Subject: Re: What *was* the Tahoe?
Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 20:40:51 -0500
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The Power 6/32 Tahoe was a product of Computer Consoles Inc. (CCI). The
internal codename was "Tahoe", as all the CCI processors were named after
lakes in the US (others I can remember were Erie and Huron). It was
originally intended to compete with the VAX-11/780 - depending on the
benchmark it was 5 to 10 times faster than the VAX and much smaller and
cheaper.
The base processor consisted of 5 boards - implemented with AMD 2900 series
bit slice processors, PLAs and 74F series parts. Surprisingly the bit-slice
processors were used in the MMU - the actual ALU was 74F181s. It was a big
endian machine that was sort of a cross between a VAX and a Motorola 68K.
As mentioned elsewhere, it is rumored that if you swap the nibbles in the
instruction bytes they end up the same as the VAX...
I think it also had some odd features: the cache was on the processor side
of the mmu -- so it was indexed by virtual address and instructions were
cached in microcode form.
As guessed from the lack of boot blocks, there was another board in the
system -- the Console Processor (CP). It was a 68000 based Versabus single
board computer. The boot monitor understood BSD filesystems on both tape
and disk. It basically loaded the microcode into the CPU, loaded the boot
image (/boot?) into memory, and then started the main CPU.
CCI ported 4.2BSD to run on the Tahoe and the changes were rolled into the
4.3-Tahoe version. They also ran System V (including a dual processor
version) and CCI's own fault-tolerant Unix - Perpos.
I think the last of the Berkeley Tahoe machines ended up at Rochester
Institute of Technology's Computer Science House (http://www.csh.rit.edu).
Some guys up there were attempting to do some work with 4.4BSD and the
Tahoe.
I can probably dig up more information if anyone needs it...
-----Original Message-----
From: SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com>
To: PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU <PUPS(a)MINNIE.CS.ADFA.EDU.AU>
Date: Sunday, November 22, 1998 6:47 PM
Subject: What *was* the Tahoe?
> What is the "Tahoe"?
>Tim. (shoppa(a)trailing-edge.com)
>
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>From SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com <SHOPPA(a)trailing-edge.com> Sun Nov 22 18:47:00 1998
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Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 21:17:16 -0500
From: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu (Michael Sokolov)
Message-Id: <199811240217.VAA17227(a)skybridge.scl.cwru.edu>
To: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au
Subject: Re: BSD Network Version 2 upload
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J. Joseph Max Katz <jkatz(a)cpio.net> writes:
> Does Net/2 produce a completely working binary system?
No. It contains only the sources, and if you try to build it, you'll get
stuck immediately because about half of the source files were simply
deleted.
Sincerely,
Michael Sokolov
Phone: 440-449-0299 (Home) 216-217-2579 (Cellular)
ARPA Internet SMTP mail: mxs46(a)k2.scl.cwru.edu
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< U.S. called Tahoe/Reno. The BSD developers probably thought "OK, we alre
< have Tahoe, let's have Reno too." Reno also probably stands for
< "renovation", although IMHO sawing the branch you are sitting on is pret
< damn stupid and certainly doesn't qualify as "renovation".
Tahoe is Lake Tahoe California, Reno is in Nevada. The connection is
the two of the cities are connected by I80, The same road you'd take to
get from Boston to Berkeley. Lake Tahoe is a resort area in the mountains
about 50miles (or so) west of Reno.
In those cities sawing the branch your sitting on may well be a paying
bet or a reason to party.
Allison
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>From Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com> Tue Nov 24 06:34:05 1998
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Date: Mon, 23 Nov 1998 12:34:05 -0800
To: allisonp(a)world.std.com (Allison J Parent), pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au
From: Rick Copeland <rickgc(a)calweb.com>
Subject: Re: Reno (was Re: What *was* the Tahoe?)
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At 02:37 PM 11/23/98 -0500, Allison J Parent wrote:
>< U.S. called Tahoe/Reno. The BSD developers probably thought "OK, we alre
>< have Tahoe, let's have Reno too." Reno also probably stands for
>< "renovation", although IMHO sawing the branch you are sitting on is pret
>< damn stupid and certainly doesn't qualify as "renovation".
>
>Tahoe is Lake Tahoe California, Reno is in Nevada. The connection is
>the two of the cities are connected by I80, The same road you'd take to
>get from Boston to Berkeley. Lake Tahoe is a resort area in the mountains
>about 50miles (or so) west of Reno.
>
>In those cities sawing the branch your sitting on may well be a paying
>bet or a reason to party.
>
>Allison
Well since I live so close to Lake Tahoe and Reno (Sacramento is half way
between Tahoe and Berkeley) I have got to get my two cents in here. My
guess is that Berkeley is well known as a pro party University and Reno and
Tahoe are the main party spots on the west cost! Sounds right to me!
Rick
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