TUHS

tuhs@tuhs.org

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6532 discussions

Good news on the Ancient UNIX License front

by sjm

Hello all, I've just received this mail from SCO. I think it's appropriate to post here. Apparently we can expect the Ancient UNIX License available on the SCO website by Friday (U.S. Pacific Time, I would suspect). Very good news indeed! Included message follows: >To: sethm(a)loomcom.com >From: Paul Kaspian <paulka(a)sco.COM> >Subject: Re: Fwd: Regarding the Ancient UNIX license >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Hi Seth, > >Sorry for the late reply. We are in the process of adding Ancient UNIX to our >web site now that the $100 fee is waived. This should be up on the site by May >12th. It will be located at www.sco.com/offers. Please let me know if you have >any questions. > >Sincerely, > >Paul Kasipan >Marketing Manager >SCO > > >At 10:25 AM 4/26/00 -0700, you wrote: > >>Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:58:24 -0700 >>From: sjm <sethm(a)loomcom.com> >>To: toms(a)sco.com >>Subject: Regarding the Ancient UNIX license >>X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0.1us >> >>Hello, >> >>I read your recent press release regarding SCO's new open source >>initiatives with some interest. Specifically, I'm curious what your >>plans are regarding the "Ancient" UNIX license which SCO previously >>charged $100 for. Do you know when the new free license will be >>available? >> >>Thank you for your help, >> >>-Seth Morabito >> sethm(a)loomcom.com -- "As a general rule, the man in the habit of murdering | Seth Morabito bookbinders, though he performs a distinct service | sethm(a)loomcom.com to society, only wastes his own time and takes no | personal advantage." -- Kenneth Grahame (1898) | Perth ==> *

25 years, 1 month

History of Unix mv.

by Brian Chase

When was the "mv" command first updated to do a copy/remove for regular files being moved across filesystems? -brian. --- Brian Chase | bdc(a)world.std.com | http://world.std.com/~bdc/ ----- Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id MAA98999 for pups-liszt; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:23:30 +1000 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Apr 27 12:23:11 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA98993 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:23:18 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.3) id MAA11845; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:23:11 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200004270223.MAA11845(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: History of Unix mv. In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.21.0004261906390.6381-100000(a)world.std.com> from Brian Chase at "Apr 26, 2000 7:10:18 pm" To: bdc(a)world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:23:11 +1000 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Brian Chase: > When was the "mv" command first updated to do a copy/remove for regular > files being moved across filesystems? > -brian. V2 mv(1) manual says files can't be moved across filesystems. V3 mv(1) manual doesn't say either way. V4 mv(1) manual says the file will be copied and the original deleted. V5 mv(1) source code exec's cp(1) when the destination is on a different filesystem. Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA00577 for pups-liszt; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:20:01 +1000 (EST) >From Brian Chase <bdc(a)world.std.com> Thu Apr 27 16:19:43 2000 Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00567 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:19:51 +1000 (EST) Received: from world.std.com (bdc(a)world-f.std.com [199.172.62.5]) by europe.std.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA13645; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:19:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (bdc@localhost) by world.std.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id CAA19153; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:19:44 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:19:43 -0700 From: Brian Chase <bdc(a)world.std.com> To: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au Subject: Re: History of Unix mv. In-Reply-To: <200004270223.MAA11845(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-ID: <Pine.SGI.4.21.0004262316570.10764-100000(a)world.std.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Thu, 27 Apr 2000, Warren Toomey wrote: > In article by Brian Chase: > > When was the "mv" command first updated to do a copy/remove for regular > > files being moved across filesystems? > > -brian. > > V2 mv(1) manual says files can't be moved across filesystems. V3 mv(1) > manual doesn't say either way. V4 mv(1) manual says the file will be > copied and the original deleted. V5 mv(1) source code exec's cp(1) when > the destination is on a different filesystem. So wait. I need some clarification here. When you say V2, V3, V4, etc.. do you mean 2nd Ed, 3rd Ed, 4th Ed Unix? -brian. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA00629 for pups-liszt; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:22:57 +1000 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Apr 27 16:22:42 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA00623 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:22:47 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.3) id QAA13320; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:22:42 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200004270622.QAA13320(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: History of Unix mv. In-Reply-To: <Pine.SGI.4.21.0004262316570.10764-100000(a)world.std.com> from Brian Chase at "Apr 26, 2000 11:19:43 pm" To: bdc(a)world.std.com (Brian Chase) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 16:22:42 +1000 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (Unix Heritage Society) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Brian Chase: > > V2 mv(1) manual says files can't be moved across filesystems. V3 mv(1) > > manual doesn't say either way. V4 mv(1) manual says the file will be > > copied and the original deleted. V5 mv(1) source code exec's cp(1) when > > the destination is on a different filesystem. > > So wait. I need some clarification here. When you say V2, V3, V4, etc.. > do you mean 2nd Ed, 3rd Ed, 4th Ed Unix? > -brian. Yup, 2nd Edition == 2e == V2. 1st Edition November 3, 1971 2nd Edition June 12, 1972 3rd Edition February, 1973 4th Edition November, 1973 5th Edition June, 1974 6th Edition May, 1975 7th Edition January, 1979 8th Edition February, 1985 9th Edition September, 1986 10th Edition October, 1989 Cheers, Warren

25 years, 2 months

Ancient UNIX to be free (was: cscope now available under the BSD license)

by Greg Lehey

If you're planning to buy an AU licence, now isn't the time :-) Greg ----- Forwarded message from atrn(a)zeta.org.au ----- > Delivered-To: freebsd-chat(a)freebsd.org > Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 07:45:17 +1000 (EST) > > On 19 Apr, I wrote: >> SCO has made the cscope sources available under the BSD license. >> There's a press release at, >> >> http://www.sco.com/press/releases/2000/6927.html > > And further down the press release they state, > > Additionally, SCO has simplified its "Ancient" UNIX program and waived the > $100 processing fee. Anyone will be able to log onto the SCO web site and > download historically preserved UNIX code for educational and non- > commercial use. > > (Note future tense "will be able to", it's not there yet). > > This essentially halves the cost of getting the CSRG CD's from Kirk > McKusick. > > -- > Andy Newman ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers

25 years, 2 months

SCO Ancient UNIX license now free

by Warren Toomey

[ This from a SCO press release ] SCO Contributes to the Open Source Community; Kicks Off Open Source Initiatives Company to Release Key Technologies, Source Code, and Resources for Software Developers; "Ancient" UNIX Source Code Available for Free [ ... ] Additionally, SCO has simplified its "Ancient" UNIX program and waived the $100 processing fee. Anyone will be able to log onto the SCO web site and download historically preserved UNIX code for educational and non-commercial use. ___________________ Tom Fox-Sellers Public Relations Specialist, Linux & Open Source Tel: 831-427-7049 Email: mailto:toms@sco.com Press: http://www.sco.com/press ___________________ Side note: you still have to have a license, it's just free to obtain now. I won't be able to make things available anonymously still. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id JAA52221 for pups-liszt; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:47:03 +1000 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Apr 20 09:46:49 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA52216 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:46:56 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.3) id JAA63622; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:46:49 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200004192346.JAA63622(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: SCO Ancient UNIX license now free In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.03.10004191642250.26245-100000(a)andru.sonoma.edu> from Andru Luvisi at "Apr 19, 2000 4:43: 1 pm" To: luvisi(a)andru.sonoma.edu (Andru Luvisi) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 09:46:49 +1000 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (Unix Heritage Society) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Andru Luvisi: > Could I trouble you for the URL on SCO's site? I can find the press > release, but the license eludes me. Actually, the URL SCO used to use, http://www.sco.com/offers/, doesn't have the license anymore. So I assume they are rearranging their site. Here are some excepts from my SCO contact as to what they _might_ do: What we basically want to do is: 1) Waive the $100 fee for the source code. 2) Make our portion of the source (by separating it from DEC's etc. etc.) available from our web site, while still leaving it available on yours. We would still like to refer people to you if they would like other source code or would like to purchase a CD 3) Make the license agreement available online with a click through in order to eliminate the paperwork. (We would probably just e-mail you the people who have agreed to the license for your records) We will however require that people "click through" our site (or possibly yours) to gain access to your FTP site and media distribution. We will consider any person that accepts the license agreement from our site a "license holder". I'm currently working on an automatic mechanism which would allow a person to click-agree to the on-line SCO license (whenever that occurs), which would give them access to the UNIX source code via SCO's web site, and also password-protected access to the PUPS Archive here. *** Note the Archive contains stuff that SCO doesn't own, e.g Ultrix, the BSD releases, but which still require a UNIX source license. For all those who haven't bought an Ancient UNIX license from SCO, if you can I would hang off from ordering one until the web mechanism arrives. It will save you and SCO the time & delay of processing paperwork. If you _really_ require a license, and are prepared to wait 6 weeks, then go to http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS/getlicense.html to get a copy of the license. Post it to SCO, but don't send any money!! Hope this helps, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA52566 for pups-liszt; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:16:24 +1000 (EST) >From Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> Thu Apr 20 11:09:04 2000 Received: from caveman.geac.com.au (caveman.geac.com.au [203.30.73.2]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA52562 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:16:17 +1000 (EST) Received: (qmail 22486 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2000 11:24:07 +1000 Received: from trowel.geac.com.au (134.128.219.30) by caveman.geac.com.au with SMTP; 20 Apr 2000 11:24:07 +1000 Received: (qmail 25870 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2000 12:18:09 +1000 Received: from fgh.geac.com.au (134.128.222.46) by trowel.geac.com.au with SMTP; 20 Apr 2000 12:18:09 +1000 Received: from localhost (dave@localhost) by fgh.geac.com.au?r with ESMTP id LAA20025 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:09:04 +1000 (EST)$ Delivered-To: <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> X-Authentication-Warning: fgh.geac.com.au: dave owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:09:04 +1000 (EST) From: Dave Horsfall <dave(a)horsfall.org> X-Sender: dave(a)fgh.geac.com.au To: PDP Unix Preservation Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: SCO Ancient UNIX license now free In-Reply-To: <200004192257.IAA63322(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0004201108070.19440-100000(a)fgh.geac.com.au> X-No-Archive: Yes X-Witty-Saying: "Tesseract - Enter at own risk" X-Disclaimer: "Me, speak for us?" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, Warren Toomey wrote: > Side note: you still have to have a license, it's just free to obtain now. I don't suppose they'll offer a refund? :-) -- Dave Horsfall VK2KFU dave(a)geac.com.au Ph: +61 2 9978-7493 Fx: +61 2 9978-7422 Geac Computers P/L (FGH Division) 2/57 Christie St, St Leonards 2065, Australia Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id LAA52620 for pups-liszt; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:29:32 +1000 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Apr 20 11:29:23 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA52614 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:29:26 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.3) id LAA64313; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:29:23 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200004200129.LAA64313(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: SCO Ancient UNIX license now free In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0004201108070.19440-100000(a)fgh.geac.com.au> from Dave Horsfall at "Apr 20, 2000 11: 9: 4 am" To: dave(a)horsfall.org (Dave Horsfall) Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:29:23 +1000 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (Unix Heritage Society) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Dave Horsfall: > On Thu, 20 Apr 2000, Warren Toomey wrote: > > > Side note: you still have to have a license, it's just free to obtain now. > > I don't suppose they'll offer a refund? :-) Consider yourself a well-paid member of the Unix Freedom Fighters :-) Warren

25 years, 2 months

Request: More volunteers for PUPS Archive

by Warren Toomey

Hi all, It's time to call again for volunteers to help out with the distribution of the PUPS Archive. In particular, if you have received a CD of the archive within the last 9 months, and you can duplicate it, then please let me know if you are willing to distribute a few CDs a month. We have a need for people in Asia, Japan, Australia, South America, but I'll take anybody anywhere! Many thanks in advance for your offers. Cheers, Warren

25 years, 2 months

Early file system layouts (was: Splitting / and /usr)

by norman＠nose.cs.utoronto.ca

Warren is right that even the First Edition manual says that init mounts /usr, implying that /usr was a distinct file system even that early. It seems to me that the original question Greg forwarded from the NetBSD list was also after when /usr/bin appeared, which isn't necessarily the same date. A possible answer from old manuals: - Second Edition sh(I) (dated 3/15/72): If the first argument is the name of an executable file, it is invoked; otherwise the string "/bin/" is prepended to the argument. (In this way the standard commands, which reside in "/bin", are found.) If the "/bin" file exists, but is not executable, it is used by the shell as a command file. - Third Edition sh(I) (dated 1/15/73): If the first argument is the name of an executable file, it is invoked; otherwise the string "/bin/" is prepended to the argument. (In this way most standard commands, which reside in "/bin", are found.) If no such command is found, the string "/usr" is further prepended (to give "/usr/bin/command") and another attempt is made to execute the resulting file. (Certain "overflow" commands live in "/usr/bin".) If the "/usr/bin" file exists, but is not executable, it is used by the shell as a command file. Notice the odd detail that non-executable files in /bin (early on) or /usr/bin (later) get special treatment. Does this mean that shell scripts that weren't in /usr/bin had to be invoked explicitly via `sh script' instead of just `script'? Even deeper historic trivia: it occurred to me to check the fragments of the PDP-7 system I have on paper to see whether /usr existed then. I was quickly reminded that it almost certainly didn't because subdirectories weren't really used then; there were no pathnames in that system. (You could open only files in the working directory, though you could link from another directory.) When asked to invoke `x', the shell first tried to open `x', then to link `x' from directory `system' and open the result. (Presumably it remembered to remove the needless link after the open, but I'm not quite certain; the old paper copy is missing a few lines just there.) So even the name `bin' doesn't date back quite to the beginning. Norman Wilson Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id KAA39649 for pups-liszt; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:10:53 +1000 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Tue Apr 18 10:10:41 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA39645 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:10:42 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.3) id KAA42226 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:10:41 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200004180010.KAA42226(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: Early file system layouts In-Reply-To: <200004172217.IAA38973(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au> from "norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca" at "Apr 16, 2000 2:43:14 pm" To: Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:10:41 +1000 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by norman(a)nose.cs.utoronto.ca: > - Second Edition sh(I) (dated 3/15/72): > If the first argument is the name of an executable file, > it is invoked; otherwise the string "/bin/" is prepended > to the argument. (In this way the standard commands, > which reside in "/bin", are found.) If the "/bin" file > exists, but is not executable, it is used by the shell > as a command file. > Notice the odd detail that non-executable files in /bin (early on) > or /usr/bin (later) get special treatment. Does this mean that > shell scripts that weren't in /usr/bin had to be invoked explicitly > via `sh script' instead of just `script'? Can't tell, we don't have the source code. In the Nsys kernel (dated just before the 4th Edition), files must have the execute bit on or they can't be exec(2)d. Warren

25 years, 2 months

Help running 2.11 on Supnik 2.3d

by lars brinkhoff

I've tried running the image in /Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02 on Supnik's emulator version 2.3d, but the root filsystem seems corrupted, with many binaries being unexecutable, bad block error messages, etc. Does anyone know how to successfully boot this image? If this is the wrong place for this kind of question, or if there's a FAQ on this, then please point me in the right direction. Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id IAA92766 for pups-liszt; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 08:33:33 +1000 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Apr 13 08:33:16 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA92762 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 08:33:27 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.3) id IAA06177; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 08:33:16 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200004122233.IAA06177(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: Help running 2.11 on Supnik 2.3d In-Reply-To: <85ln2jsewz.fsf(a)junk.nocrew.org> from lars brinkhoff at "Apr 12, 2000 2: 5:16 pm" To: lars(a)nocrew.org (lars brinkhoff) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 08:33:16 +1000 (EST) Cc: pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (Unix Heritage Society) Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by lars brinkhoff: > I've tried running the image in /Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02 [from the PUPS > Archive] on Supnik's emulator version 2.3d, but the root filsystem seems > corrupted, with many binaries being unexecutable, bad block > error messages, etc. > > Does anyone know how to successfully boot this image? Hmm, if I get a chance I'll try it here. Has anybody used this image successfully? Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id NAA94344 for pups-liszt; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 13:23:56 +1000 (EST) >From "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Thu Apr 13 13:22:56 2000 Received: from moe.2bsd.com (0(a)MOE.2BSD.COM [206.139.202.200]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA94340 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 13:23:38 +1000 (EST) Received: (from sms@localhost) by moe.2bsd.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA16968; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 20:22:56 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 20:22:56 -0700 (PDT) From: "Steven M. Schultz" <sms(a)moe.2bsd.com> Message-Id: <200004130322.UAA16968(a)moe.2bsd.com> To: lars(a)nocrew.org, pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Subject: Re: Help running 2.11 on Supnik 2.3d Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Hi -- > From: lars brinkhoff <lars(a)nocrew.org> > I've tried running the image in /Boot_Images/2.11_on_rl02 on > Supnik's emulator version 2.3d, but the root filsystem seems > corrupted, with many binaries being unexecutable, bad block error messages, > etc. > > Does anyone know how to successfully boot this image? Yes. The problem is not with the images (although the whole "on rl02" is a pain - you're far better off using the "xp" or large disk support that Bob added). > If this is the wrong place for this kind of question, or if > there's a FAQ on this, then please point me in the right direction. This is a very good place to ask this type of question. And now the moment you've been waiting for: "the Answer" ;) 2.11BSD is *very* upset at having to run in 256kb of memory. since the kernel plus buffer cache (and other data structures) can easily exceed 200kb there is not enough memory left over to run a program. Programs such as 'fsck' are fairly large split I/D programs and won't fit in the remaining ~56kb or so. The quick fix to the problem is adding the line: set cpu 2048K to the config file before running the simulator. That will give the simulated PDP-11 2Mb of memory which is a real nice size. Oh, if memory is a concern on the system then "set cpu 1024K" will work well. Since there's no networking involved 1Mb will be quite adequate. If you were using "P11" (the Begemot emulator) and had the full IP/TCP stack, etc then the kernel+networking+buffers can reach close to 400Kb and you might want to use 2Mb for the memory size. You might also look into the latest version (2.5) of the Begemot emulator. The two key advantages of P11 are: 1) a emulated DEQNA so you can place the PDP11 on a network, 2) It keeps _good_ time (version 2.4 and earlier had severe timeskew when running compute bound programs, 2.5 is awesomely better and within range of "ntp" to keep the clock correct). P11 also supports (as does Bob Supnik's simulator) large disks such as the RP06 which is much nicer than 4 RL02s and a batch of RK05s. Hmmm, I'm not sure which rev level of 2.11BSD is in the "on_rl02" images - I hope it has the "bounce buffer support" to handle the 18bit RK controller on a 22bit bus... If the RK images show corrupt or the kernel crashes then I would suspect the kernel is a bit too old. Unpack the "211bsd_on_rl02" images from the .gz images, edit the "script" file to increase the system memory and you should be all set to go. Steven Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id OAA94566 for pups-liszt; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 14:56:35 +1000 (EST) >From Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> Thu Apr 13 14:56:23 2000 Received: from freebie.lemis.com (root(a)freebie.lemis.com [192.109.197.137]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA94562 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au>; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 14:56:26 +1000 (EST) Received: (from grog@localhost) by freebie.lemis.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) id OAA45453 for pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 14:26:23 +0930 (CST) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 14:26:23 +0930 From: Greg Lehey <grog(a)lemis.com> To: UNIX Heritage Society <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.oz.au> Subject: Early file system layouts (was: Splitting / and /usr) Message-ID: <20000413142623.A45386(a)freebie.lemis.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Mailer: Mutt 1.0pre2i WWW-Home-Page: http://www.lemis.com/~grog X-PGP-Fingerprint: 6B 7B C3 8C 61 CD 54 AF 13 24 52 F8 6D A4 95 EF Organization: LEMIS, PO Box 460, Echunga SA 5153, Australia Phone: +61-8-8388-8286 Fax: +61-8-8388-8725 Mobile: +61-41-739-7062 Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk Saw this on a NetBSD list. Greg ----- Forwarded message from "Alistair G. Crooks" <agc(a)ftp.netbsd.org> ----- > Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 01:31:41 -0700 (PDT) > To: kre(a)munnari.oz.au > Cc: current-users(a)netbsd.org > Precedence: list > Delivered-To: current-users(a)netbsd.org > > Robert, > > [Off topic warning] > >>> Did you not know that /usr was split off only because the disks were too >>> small to keep everything on one way back in the early days >> >> That's how I heard it too - but this split must have occurred way back >> very early in the days before anyone outside Bell Labs had ever heard of >> unix (as I remember it, even the CACM paper had /usr in it). > > I believe that the topic of splitting / and /usr was discussed > at the Glasgow University meeting of the UKUUG, which was around > 1978, if my memory serves me well. As the first copy of V5 and V6 > came out of the labs in the 1975/1976 timeframe, I suspect it came > later. I don't have my copy of the CACM paper to hand, so I can't > check dates. > > Whilst I attented the University there at that time, I didn't attend > the conference - more fool me. > > I suspect that Alistair Kilgour or Zdravko Podolski could provide > more information, or any of the Bell Labs alumni who were there. > > agc ----- End forwarded message ----- ----- Forwarded message from Robert Elz <kre(a)munnari.OZ.AU> ----- > To: "Alistair G. Crooks" <agc(a)ftp.netbsd.org> > Cc: current-users(a)netbsd.org > Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:36:15 +1000 > Precedence: list > Delivered-To: current-users(a)netbsd.org > > Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 01:31:41 -0700 (PDT) > From: "Alistair G. Crooks" <agc(a)ftp.netbsd.org> > Message-ID: <200004120831.BAA06860(a)nbftp.isc.org> > >> [Off topic warning] > > Ditto - but recording history sometimes has its uses... > >> I believe that the topic of splitting / and /usr was discussed >> at the Glasgow University meeting of the UKUUG, which was around >> 1978, > > It was definitely done before that. > > Unfortunately, I can't find a 5th edition manual (or even a reprinted > facsimilie thereof at the minute), but the 6th edition manual for sh(1) > says ... > > If the first argument [ on a command line ] is the name of an > executable file, it is invoked; otherwise the string `/bin' is > prepended to the argument. (In this way most standard commands, > which reside in `/bin', are found.) If no such command is found, > the string `/usr' is further prepended (to give `/usr/bin/command') > and another attempt is made to execute the resulting file. (Certain > lesser-used commands live in `/usr/bin'.) > > The sixth edition manual is dated May 75, but the date on the sh man page > is 5/15/74 (which I interpret as the 15th of May, 1974). > > For those who are new to unix (within the last 20 years) note that there > was no notion of a user settable path... > >> I don't have my copy of the CACM paper to hand, so I can't >> check dates. > > I have checked now, and it says nothing either way, so that is no help. > Kernighan's "Unix for Beginners" (of a generally similar vintage) gives > a diagrammatic view of the filesystem tree, in which all that exists in > /usr are user directories, though that is not really conclusive. > >> I suspect that Alistair Kilgour or Zdravko Podolski could provide >> more information, or any of the Bell Labs alumni who were there. > > I will see if Dennis will tell me... > > kre > ----- End forwarded message ----- ----- Forwarded message from Robert Elz <kre(a)munnari.OZ.AU> ----- > To: "Alistair G. Crooks" <agc(a)ftp.netbsd.org>, current-users(a)netbsd.org > Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 12:45:05 +1000 > Precedence: list > Delivered-To: current-users(a)netbsd.org > > Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:36:15 +1000 > From: Robert Elz <kre(a)munnari.OZ.AU> > Message-ID: <353.955586175(a)munnari.OZ.AU> > >> I will see if Dennis will tell me... > > He did, ... > > But early; definitely by the time of the "nsys" system, the > first C version, which was 1973. > > And ... > > The point of /usr/bin was really to find a place to put > those binaries. (The .5MB disk was pretty cramped even > with with two of them, as we later had). > > which (if we ever needed it) is confirmation or the original reason... > > kre > ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Finger grog(a)lemis.com for PGP public key See complete headers for address and phone numbers Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA94737 for pups-liszt; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:32:38 +1000 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Apr 13 15:32:02 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA94732 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:32:26 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.3) id PAA08492; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:32:02 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200004130532.PAA08492(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: Early file system layouts (/ and /usr split) In-Reply-To: <20000413142623.A45386(a)freebie.lemis.com> from Greg Lehey at "Apr 13, 2000 2:26:23 pm" To: grog(a)lemis.com (Greg Lehey) Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:32:02 +1000 (EST) Cc: current-users(a)netbsd.org Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk [ This came to me from a NetBSD mailing list, via Greg Lehey ] Someone said..... > >>> Did you not know that /usr was split off only because the disks were too > >>> small to keep everything on one way back in the early days Someone else said.... > > I believe that the topic of splitting / and /usr was discussed > > at the Glasgow University meeting of the UKUUG, which was around > > 1978, if my memory serves me well. As the first copy of V5 and V6 > > came out of the labs in the 1975/1976 timeframe, I suspect it came > > later. I don't have my copy of the CACM paper to hand, so I can't > > check dates. The answer is: UNIX had / and /usr split by at least the time of the July 1974 CACM paper ``The UNIX Time-sharing system''. Here is the evidence: At http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS/Images/ken-and-den.txt and http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS/Images/ken-and-den.jpg you will find a picture of Ken and Dennis at the PDP-11/20 around 1972. The commentary in the text file from John Holden tell us that the disk drives are RF-11 and RK03 drives. RF-11 drives were fixed head drives with 512K of storage with fast access. RK03s and RK05s could store 2M, but were not as fast as RF-11s. The source code to (nearly) 3rd Edition UNIX, dated August 31, 1973, only has drivers for two disks, RF-11s and RK05s. This source code is in the PUPS Archive, http://minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au/PUPS. You need a Unix src license. Now, the July 1974 CACM paper says this: In our installation, for example, the root directory resides on the fixed-head disk, and the large disk drive, which contains user's files, is mounted by the system initialization program; .... To me, this strongly indicates that / and /usr were split by at least July 1974, if not the earlier date of August 1973. Cheers all, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA94865 for pups-liszt; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:50:31 +1000 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Apr 13 15:50:17 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA94861 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:50:24 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.3) id PAA08605; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:50:17 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200004130550.PAA08605(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: Early file system layouts (/ and /usr split) In-Reply-To: <200004130532.PAA08492(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> from Warren Toomey at "Apr 13, 2000 3:32: 2 pm" To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:50:17 +1000 (EST) Cc: grog(a)lemis.com, current-users(a)netbsd.org Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Warren Toomey: > The answer is: UNIX had / and /usr split by at least the time of the > July 1974 CACM paper ``The UNIX Time-sharing system''. I just found some more evidence. The 2nd Edition UNIX manual is dated June 1972, but the actual man pages have their date of last modification. The manual for init(7), dated 15th June 1972, says: [ If console switches are set to 173030, a shell is attached to the console immediately, i.e single-user mode ] Otherwise, init does some housekeeping: the mode of each DECtape file is changed to [read-write] (in case the system crashed during a tap command); directory /usr is mounted on the RK0 disk; directory /sys is mounted on the RK1 disk. Cheers, Warren Received: (from major@localhost) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) id PAA94952 for pups-liszt; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:59:25 +1000 (EST) >From Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Thu Apr 13 15:59:06 2000 Received: from henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (henry.cs.adfa.edu.au [131.236.21.158]) by minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA94946 for <pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au>; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:59:16 +1000 (EST) Received: (from wkt@localhost) by henry.cs.adfa.edu.au (8.9.2/8.9.3) id PAA08671; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:59:06 +1000 (EST) (envelope-from wkt) From: Warren Toomey <wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au> Message-Id: <200004130559.PAA08671(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> Subject: Re: Early file system layouts (/ and /usr split) In-Reply-To: <200004130550.PAA08605(a)henry.cs.adfa.edu.au> from Warren Toomey at "Apr 13, 2000 3:50:17 pm" To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:59:06 +1000 (EST) Cc: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au, grog(a)lemis.com, current-users(a)netbsd.org Reply-To: wkt(a)cs.adfa.edu.au X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL43 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-pups(a)minnie.cs.adfa.edu.au Precedence: bulk In article by Warren Toomey: > In article by Warren Toomey: > > The answer is: UNIX had / and /usr split by at least the time of the > > July 1974 CACM paper ``The UNIX Time-sharing system''. > > I just found some more evidence. And more, from the 1st Edition init(7) man page dated 3rd November, 1971. Directory usr is assigned via sys mount as resident on the RK disk. and sys mount means the mount(2) system call. Cheers, Warren

25 years, 2 months

Some interesting old UNIX news

by Warren Toomey

Hi all, I'd just like to welcome the new people to the PUPS list. This is probably the first e-mail in the list for a few weeks. I've been pretty busy at work, but there is some interesting news on the old UNIX front. + SCO has now sold over 220 old Unix licenses, and I have something like 120 license holders with access to the on-line PUPS Archive. We've lost count of the number of CDs produced by the PUPS Volunteers (thanks guys!) + I've got some Y2K patches for Unix coming in from Alexey Chupahin in Russia. Once I get them sorted out, they will be put into the archive. + The baton of old Unix at SCO has been passed from Dion Johnson to David Eyes and now to Paul Kaspian, their Open Source Marketing Manager. There will be some changes to the Ancient UNIX license. If you haven't bought a license, I would recommend NOT sending in any money just yet. This will be good news, but I'm waiting on SCO to announce the details. I'll keep you all informed as usual. Cheers, Warren P.S the Minix operating system has been released under a BSD license. Anybody want to port it to the PDP-11 family?

25 years, 2 months

11/23

by Tim Bradshaw

Someone is offering me an 11/23 with (I think) 2 small disks (RL-something) which are meant to bbe 10Mb each (maybe 5?) Can someone tell me what Unices this will run? It has no media other than the disks (it has, I think, RT-11), but I've read about people getting stuff into things down a serial line -- how practical is that? Thanks --tim

25 years, 3 months

DEC documentation preservation [RE: VS3100m76 ethernet problem (fwd)]

by Brian Chase

I saw the following on the linux-vax list. It seems to me it might be worthwhile for us to get more info on the scope of the project, its terms, and to see if we can collectively contribute to it. We'd all benefit from having better access to old DEC documentation. -brian. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 8 Mar 2000 16:33:44 -0500 (EST) >From: quayle(a)infinet.com Reply-To: linux-vax(a)mithra.physics.montana.edu To: linux-vax(a)mithra.physics.montana.edu Subject: RE: VS3100m76 ethernet problem > > I took out the Owners manual that I forgot to send you, but it > > states that 0000.0001 is normal, and if the last digit is anything > > else it should/could still work normaly. Every error in the Error Code > > table is 0000.x00y (for example: 0000.600C Loopback failed). The Dallas/Fort Worth DECUS local users group is scanning all Digital documentation, no matter how old. You might contact them (denton(a)dsserv.com or wisniewski(a)dwlug.decus.org) to see if they'd like to copy your manuals. You get a free copy of everything they've scanned when they finish.

25 years, 3 months

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